Democrats must stop 'speaking down to voters,' Dean says

[ProudToBeLiberal]

Democrats must stop 'speaking down to voters,' Dean says

By Susan Page, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON — Since he was elected Democratic national chairman in February, Howard Dean has done the unexpected: He mostly disappeared from national view.

Dean went from long shot to near-nominee in the 2004 Democratic presidential campaign by being outspoken, confrontational and indefatigable. But since taking over the demoralized Democrats, he has concentrated on nitty-gritty work in out-of-the-way places.

Now the former Vermont governor says he's ready to begin speaking out more. In a cell phone interview with USA TODAY late Wednesday, while stuck in traffic in San Francisco, he talked about his prescription for the party. It was his first interview with a national news outlet since being elected.

On Saturday, he is scheduled to deliver the keynote address at the California Democratic Convention.

more at...http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-04-14-dean-inside_x.htm#
________________________________________________________________
The more meaty stuff inside, click the link.

[senseandsensibility]

1. My opinion on this

is that if Dean feels this way, he should not talk down to voters and should urge other Dems not to IN PRIVATE. What he should not do is make a public statement that criticizes the party as a whole and aligns with RW talking points.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

2. I don't think he can call every single Democrat in the country.

first of all that would be inefficient, a waste of his valuable time, and a waste of money.

[trogdor]

16. You can't even fart in private if you're the DNC chair.

Somebody will leak it to the press, and before the day is over, everyone in the world will know exactly what it smelled like, and what you probably ate to make it smell that way. That's just the way it is.

[blm]

28. Dean's wrong. Dems talk TO people like they're INTELLIGENT and thoughtful

and I have always appreciated that they DON'T talk dumbed down out of respect for ME and other citizens.

If Dean thinks Dems should change into roughspeak to attract, then THAT is the true definition of speaking down.

The Republicans speak DOWN to their audiences who swallow their lies because the media has dumbed them down and misinformed them.

[napi21]

34. I didn't understand Dean to say that. I think he's talking about

some Dems ridiculing and degrading people who disagree with them on some specific issues, like abortion, gay marriage etc. It does happen! We all see it here on DU every day. I think Dean is trying to say that we as Dems need to accept people who disagree with us on those issues, because both sides would agree with so many other issues.

[redqueen]

43. Bingo.

You don't want broadcast TV to be able to show commercials for scary movies or women's lingerie before prime-time? YOU NAZI!

You step out of line on abortion? YOU FASCIST WOMAN HATER!

[obreaslan]

47. You definitely got that right...

As redqueen said, Dean is not talking just about those actual elected officials so mush as he is talking to all Democrats. From the highest, such as himself, down to the bottom of the list like myself. We all need to realize that by alienating someone, you aren't doing a very good job at convincing them to see things your way.

I have tried to be more open to the other side's view. I may not agree with it, but to call their view stupid or something worse is counter-productive.

Just my 2 Cents.

[BrendaStarr]

48. Oh yeah, I remember now Democrats can't be funny

Don't be funny anyone or the Republicans will get mad.

And then later when we've squelched all humor they will remind everyone how the Democrats aren't funny.

Rush Limbaugh can say what he wants to about anyone and that's okay, but not Democrats.

I do agree that some people go a little overboard, but other go a little overboard in swallowing rw talking points about how Dems had better stop pointing out the obvious about the Republicans.

All of that is due to people sitting on a liberal board too much instead of getting out and being active on a regular basis.

[janx]

49. Well if nothing else, blm, Dean's comment will point out

that behavior on the part of Republicans.

What Dean is suggesting doesn't necessarily translate to "roughspeak."

[senseandsensibility]

58. Exactly

You are right that Dems don't talk down to people. That's what infuriates me the most about Dean saying this. He is accepting THEIR bullshit "story" about us. It's not true, but now the other side can go around saying that even "far left" Dean admits that Dems talk down to people . Great.:(

[Orangepeel]

60. his public statement is directed at potentially alienated voters

the statement wasn't directed at Democratic leaders, or Dean would have told them in private. It was directed at the public.

If you accept as fact the assumption that there are a lot of voters who have bought into RW talking points and believe that Democrats are elitist, then this makes sense. He is telling these people that this is something Democrats are going to work on. Talking to Dem leaders in private wouldn't work because the problem isn't that they really are elitist as much as it is that people have been convinced that they are elitist.

Of course, one can debate both the accuracy of the assumption and whether or not the strategy will work. But I think that it is a safe bet that Dean made this statement publicly because it was meant to be public.

[TroglodyteScholar]

66. This isn't criticism aligned with RW talking points...

It is a challenge to those among our leaders who are consistintly arrogant and, therefore, ineffective.

[SHRED]

3. It's difficult...

to not "speak down" to the TV lead sheep who are fooled by edited enthusiam, the tv culture labeled, the "Dean Scream".

I understand where Dean is coming from but the Repugs own the corporate media, thus the message.

[demokatgurrl]

38. Exactly- considering we're talking to Dumfuckistan

we have to dumb it down. Wasn't Kerry criticized for using big words and long sentences, as though he were speaking to a highly educated populace?

[Demit]

4. Good on USAToday for this--

"...Some Republicans sarcastically welcome Dean as a spokesman for Democrats. "Howard Dean is less popular than Tom DeLay," the embattled House majority leader, said Republican pollster Whit Ayres. "Why isn't he a liability?"

Dean had ratings of 35% favorable and 33% unfavorable in a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken Feb. 25-27. DeLay had ratings of 27% favorable, 31% unfavorable in a USA TODAY survey taken April 1-2. ..."


Factually pointing out that those sarcastic Repubs are, well, WRONG.

[lancdem]

39. Comparing Dean to DeLay?

Please. Forgetting the fact one's a progressive and the other's a RW fanatic, Dean is not corrupt like DeLay.

[Demit]

44. I think you missed the point. The Repub pollster was trying to float

a negative "fact" about Dean, which wasn't true, and USAToday was good enough to point out that it wasn't true.

[Rowdyboy]

5. Give 'em hell, Dr Dean.....

I knew he would be a breath of fresh air for the party and he is. He speaks unpleasant truths, but truths nonetheless.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

7. exactly, I like him because he's not afraid to speak the unpleasant truth

we can always count on Howard not to skirt the issues.

[Rowdyboy]

9. And he has a pretty solid grasp of whats wrong with the Democratic party

He has the vision, I just hope he has the power and stamina to follow through and setting us back on the right course.

My money's on Dean.

[MsUSA]

19. I wish our side would "stay on point", or "stay on message". When

watching Dems on C-SPAN, they might all be talking the same issues but the way they come across sounds so fractured, so beating around the bush,(hate even typing that word), sometimes. I've always been amazed at how anyone who speaks for the other side, always have the same talking points, the same phrasing etc. Dems have to learn how to make their points in short, concise statements to get their message out.

[XemaSab]

31. The burn is

that by talking to voters like they're intelligent people, we wind up sounding verbose and unfocused.

The republicans talk to people like they're poorly trained hunting dogs, and people get the message and respond to it.

[yurbud]

46. dems don't understand talking points and sound bites

You have to get your point exactly right in the first sentence.

That's how that war appropriations thing blew up on Kerry. His explanation made sense, but you had to read or hear the whole thing to get it.

He should have just said, "I wanted to vote for it the second time, but the repubs stripped off an amendment to pay for it by repealing their tax cut on the rich."

[janx]

51. It'll be very interesting to see what he has to say

in coming days, especially tomorrow night.

[ClintonTyree]

6. It's very hard not to...

when they're so ill-informed and disinterested in what's happening in our country. It's like a parent trying to reach a wayward child, there are many trains of thought about how that should be handled.
When trying to explain something to a complete dullard it's difficult to not act condescending. We're armed with every fact and truth yet the dullard refuses to believe us because of some ancient myth that has been ingrained into him since birth. How does one combat that without appearing condescending? :shrug: How does one combat complete and utter stupidity?

[DemNoir]

8. Do the same thing they do

Have large numbers of people just repeating the same ideas over and over again. The Right has proven this works.

[zipplewrath]

41. It begins with respect

Presume you don't know "more" than they. Presume you know more on certain topics, and less on others. Also understand that knowledge doesn't equate to being "right". And seek to find topics or angles upon which they feel comfortable talking so they don't get defensive. Once there, and trust is formed, then they may be more willing to explore issues about which they know they are less well schooled. And above all, seek a common ground. We all tend to agree more than we disagree. We've just all been taught to find the differences, not seek the commonalities.

[bettyellen]

65. hard for you maybe, right there is the condesenion he's talking about.

not everyone has your education or resources. believe it or not, a lot of people didn't grow up with a lot of the opportunites we did. and a lot of people think it's not objectionable to lead a simple honest life, even without the benefit of a higher level of education.

a lot of people are exhausted just trying to keep out of the poor house. they watch or read 10 minutes of mainstream crap a day. and they have no idea how 1/2 the reports they have watched are produced or influenced by big corporations and the government.
a lot of people remember when the media was willing to be more critical of the govt, and i think they assume things are not so godawful, because they would be hearing about it. they are unaware that the rules of the games have changed over the last 20 years.

i don't like the word sheeple, but utter stupidity? oh please. ignorant, unfortunately, and too trusting perhaps. but at least they ain't riding a high horse like you are tyree. if it's so hard for you not to condesend, perhaps you ought to just bite your toungue. because you really can't effectively enlighten people when you have that sort of predudice against them. nor should you try. or are you not "street smart" enough to see, you're shooting yourself in the foot?

[mmonk]

10. God speed Gov Dean

but I didn't know we were speaking or have been allowed to speak.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

11. editorials, when you speak to other people, and etc.

[no_hypocrisy]

12. It can be done well. FDR was a patrician from old money and still

could talk to citizens plainly as if he were talking to them individually in their homes during his Fireside Chats. He made people believe he was one of them, not above them. And that built trust and support for his programs. Same with Eleanor. Inherited wealth and she still visited prisons, went down into mineshafts, and cooked for soldiers. The "common touch" is a gesture of humility and respect, one that has been put aside too long by the democrats who assumed that people would follow them if they led. Wrong assumption. The neocons co-opted this strategy and like it or not, it's worked great -- up to now. I agree with Howard Dean as long as he can do (and persuade others to do) what he advocates.

[roseBudd]

13. I agree we need to learn how to keep it real. Before the election I used

a total trash talking technique that went over very well, but raised eyebrows among the middleaged whites staffing Kerry campaign headquarters. This past Wed. I helped gather signatures for a petition to protect SS. I went right to the bus stop and filled 3 pages in a half hour, by trash talking.

[fudge stripe cookays]

20. wtg Rosebud!

Like what types of stuff were you saying? I'd be interested in addng it to my repertoire!

FSC

[roseBudd]

22. Before the election I was saying things like...

I had flyers I made. The most popular was the poem

George W.Bush is a punk ass bitch
Crony capitalist all about the rich...

Nov. 3 is when I vote
Not for the dope that read "My Pet Goat"

[Larkspur]

14. This critique was a salvo aimed at the DLC clowns and Hill Dems

moreso than rank-and-file Democrats.

It's good to seen Howard Dean getting back in the national limelight. Give 'em Hell Howard!!

[janx]

50. Yes. Interesting times are ahead. n/t

[MrTriumph]

62. Dean can easily see Cong. Dems. are half-hearted talk and no action

For the working man..... support open borders.

For debtors getting a clean start.... vote for dirty bankruptcy bill.

For competent cabinet appointments.... consent to C. Rice & A. Gonzales.

For a strong war on terror... vote for going into Iraq.

At times Dean must feel a cruel trick has been played on him and his party is dominated by spineless DINOs.

[karynnj]

15. I don't know what he means by "talking down"

In the context of the paragraph, he says we should not talk down to voters who disagree with the pro-choice view and who are concerned with some of the sleazy TV etc. I think he may mean that we need to be less dismissive or condescending to people who are troubled by these issues. It may be his way of essentially saying what Hillary has said on both these issues.

I certainly don't think that Kerry talked down to anyone on any issues. His debate answers, whether on normal domestic and foreign policy issues or the culture issues, were as detailed and thoughtful as any given the time frame. (Bush's answers were often simplistic, but they may not have been talking down). There's also been some revisionism already on abortion, Kerry did mention efforts to avoid abortions - including work that Teresa has been involved in. (Realistically, this is as substantive as Hillary saying, "it's tragic." )

It may be presumptuous on my part as framing is the solution of the day according to most party gurus, but I think that the idea that if we keep the same position but speak about it differently, that we will win over a lot of people is condescending. Abortion and Gay Rights are extremely emotional issues.

As a test, turn this around and see how people on our side would react if it were the other way around. The easiest example would be a Republican who says that he understands that people who are gay can be very good people, but he believes marriage is a unique institution between a man and a woman WITH UNIQUE RIGHTS that should not be given to other unions. Now, imagine that Republican is a clone of whoever you supported in the primaries last time except on this issue. Do you support him? What if this is your single issue? My opinion is that for those for whom this is a major issue, it won't be enough.

The biggest problem is that while I would prefer both of these issues to disappear because there are major economic and foreign policy issues that are being handled in disastrous ways, they will not oblige me by doing so. The problem is that economics and foreign policy are boring to many many people. There are people who have no firm position on, say, what the US policy on Taiwan should be. Most people have opinions on the culture issues - and for many it is a gut issue.

On abortion, you could rule out the extremes on both sides. No law could be passed that if a mother's life were in jeopardy, she could be denied an abortion or making contraception illegal. On, the other side, a viable fetus, who could survive in the world could never be aborted. On each end, you have a very large majority who agree. The problem is the huge broad middle area, where both sides care passionately and their views can not be triangulated.

I've always thought that arguing the real consequences of making abortion illegal would be the strongest arguments, but I've found with at least some people they don't work. side 1: If abortion was illegal, it would still exist, but it would be often unsafe and women would die. Side 2: Making it illegal, may deter at least some (murders - their word) and woman dying is a risk they take to do something they shouldn't.

A very major problem I see with what I've written is it doesn't lead to a solution. But the problem I have with some of what I've read suggesting that we can talk our way out of the problem, is that they seem to favor having a solution (even if it is not based on hard reality) to clearly defining what the problem is. This could easily be delusional.

[XemaSab]

33. My interpretation of Howard saying that

we need to be less dismissive of people who have different opinions on abortion is that he's saying that we need to agree to disagree on some issues in order to shift the debate over to things like social security, that is a non culture-war issue that we need to fight these bastards on TODAY before they dismantle it.

Also, framing is not just talking about things differently. If you've read Lakoff (which I *highly* recommend), it's about activating our moral values deep within people's brains. According to Lakoff, people don't decide their stances on issues based on rational thought, they decide based on moral judgements.

[karynnj]

36. I agree we need to shift the issues

I'm not sure HOW we do this. I don't think that any of the candidates could be accused of being dismissive of people who had different opinions on abortion. In particular, Kerry, in demeanor and words, was anything but dismissive to the woman who asked the question at the town hall. He talked about his personal background, work done by Teresa, and explained the legal problems he had with 2 controversial issues. In demeanor, he was polite and gentlemanly and very soft spoken at this point. But, the answer was not the one she wanted.

I read one of the short Lakoff articles and found it incredibly interesting and do intend to pick up the book. I do agree with the concept that we need to show we have values - and stress that values arent defined by positions on a small set of controversial issues. I can see how everyone from Dean to Hillary to Kerry is using the word values more than they did before. (ie "supporting military families is an American value"

[doc05]

42. If that's the case

If that's the case, then why do you call people who disagree with you "bastards"?

[XemaSab]

55. Sorry to use harsh language

but the people who are trying to dismantle social security freak me out.

There are issues such as abortion and gun control on which reasonable people can disagree, and there are issues that you can't compromise on, and social security is the latter type of issue.

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. Dean: Dems must lure back voters

By Susan Page, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Democratic National Chairman Howard Dean says his party needs to do more to appeal to voters who have been lost because of unease over "values," including people who oppose abortion and parents who are dismayed by TV programs they find offensive for their children.

"We need to be a national party, we need a national message, and we need to understand why people in dire economic straits — people who certainly aren't being helped by Republican policies — why they vote for George Bush," he said. "We need to respect voters in red states who want to vote for us, but we make it hard for them by not listening to what they have to say."

In his first major interview since being elected party chairman in February, Dean struck some themes that echoed his presidential campaign in 2004. He is focusing on building grass-roots organizations and training state parties to tap the Internet for fundraising — areas in which his campaign pioneered. (Related story: Democrats must stop 'speaking down to voters,' Dean says)

But the message Dean outlined was a contrast to the one in his campaign, which was fueled by opposition to the war in Iraq and drew mostly liberal support.

more: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-04-15-dean-voters_x.htm

[hippiechick]

18. Did he really say 'lure' ? Did the headline say that ?

I'm curious because that's a shitty term to use, and somehow I don't think the Good Dr. would be crass enough to state it that way.

:shrug:

[Rose Siding]

21. The only place the word appears is in the title

As I understand it, headline titles aren't even generally written by the reporter who writes the piece.

[Writer]

30. Thank you, Dr. Dean for finally showing your true colors.

Some of us Democrats thought that you were all about fist-shaking opposition, strict liberal ideology, and contempt for compromise. It seems that, instead, you possess a lot of good sense, pragmatism, and moderation that you showed during your years as governor.

Thank you.

Writer.

[ElectroPrincess]

54. Yes, he's selling-out for the Republocrat ass-kissers known

as the new democrats. To Hell With Him and The Democratic Party until they truly represent THE PEOPLE ... NOT religious nut cases or ill informed bipolar "one issue" hayseeds.

This is NOT the Democratic Party I know ... they'll have to go down HARD before they honestly "get the point."

"We're (common working and middle class SANE secular Americans) MAD AS HELL as and we're NOT going to take THIS (condescension) anymore!

The so called "new democrats" have forgotten that many of us salty elders are not near as ignorant and gullible as the Bushite Neanderthals.

[lancdem]

40. That second graf is right on the money

I was just talking to a co-worker about this subject the other day.

"We need to be a national party, we need a national message, and we need to understand why people in dire economic straits — people who certainly aren't being helped by Republican policies — why they vote for George Bush," he said. "We need to respect voters in red states who want to vote for us, but we make it hard for them by not listening to what they have to say."

[AngryAmish]

23. Is it our fault that the Amerikkan Sheeple are too stupid

Or half of them are?

[freedom_to_read]

27. I think this is exactly what Dean is talking about

You can't convince people to listen to your ideas when you just dismiss them as being dumb as barnyard animals.

[meow2u3]

24. Dean is right on the money!

The Good Doctor is effectively telling us that if we're going to talk the talk on being the party of inclusion and tolerance, we're going to have to walk the walk.

Talking down to voters, especially those who disagree with the party on social issues, is something the Repukes do, and that we had better quit stooping to the level of the GOPee.

[realFedUp]

25. uninformed voters

when a lot of people don't read news
of any kind anymore, don't know the
history let alone the names of the
Bush nominees etc...it's not hard to be
irritated with their lack of knowledge.

I think that's what it comes down
to...we are so knowledgeable and interested
as citizens at this site and others that we have
a hard time with those who aren't.

and it's not like the information
is not accessible with some effort.

[peacetalksforall]

26. I thought he was the plain spoken one. I don't understand what he

means. I can guess. But I can't be sure.

I think I probably have talked down, but I'm not sure if I don't know what the heck he means.

I need to fight for my country. Are there fighting rules we're supposed to live by (other than the law)?

We're fighting for a past and future life. C'mon, Doctor.

[leesa]

29. Voters must start getting their heads out of their asses.

[Rowdyboy]

32. Around 1/2 the comments to this thread are proof that Dean is right....

The superior, elitist, smug, holier and smarter than the "sheeple" attitude reflects what Dean is fighting to eliminate. Why would you want to vote for someone who openly tells you that you're too stupid to have a valid opinion, primarily because it differs from theirs?

[XemaSab]

35. The sad fact is

that there have been studies saying that Bush voters are consistently less infomed than Democrats.

Sad but true.

[redqueen]

45. I guess some don't want to win, they just want to be right. n/t

[athenap]

37. Subtle strategy?

I wonder if this isn't a very subtle strategy on Dean's part to start reframing the party. Think of it this way...there are still tons and tons of people who *still* think Dems=big government/big spending in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. By making these statements, I wonder if Dean isn't setting things up so that he can introduce the New, Lemon-Freshened, Reformed Dem Party, as a way of putting into the public consciousness that the party is changing. Whether it really is or it's just a means to raise awareness of what the party already stands for.

[Guaranteed]

52. Not sure if I agree with this one.

Bad way of putting it, Doc.

I'm a huge supporter, but, you know, sometimes these motherfuckers need a good talking-down-to.

[frustrated_lefty]

53. Dean is doing the same thing he did

in his presidential bid. He's saying the party needs to build from the ground up. Rather than gathering into the typical circular firing squad, we need to engage each other. We need to build and grow into a party where our combined efforts are synergistic, more than the sum of our individual efforts.

I'm incredibly proud of Howard Dean. He is exactly the right man to deal with "the nitty-gritty work."

The doctor is IN the house! :)

[BadNews]

56. Specifically to Religious People

Most of us that believe in God are not Bible thumping, neandrathals that take everything in the book literally. Yet many in the party take every opportunity to deride religion in any form. Keep it up, and we will continue losing votes and elections.

I am religious and vote Democrat because I believe in things like social welfare, universal health care, and am against the death penalty, and preemptive wars. I also believe in a complete seperation of church and state. When large numbers of Democrats and other progressives act like all of us are fools, you turn us off. Like it or not, most Americans believe in a diety in one form or another.

There is a huge difference in disecting an argument by the fundamentalists in my religion, and smearing religion in general. You may not believe, but condisending attitudes towards those who do will breed resentment. You may as well just hang a sign that says believers are unwelcome, then complain that no one comes in to discuss issues with you.

[Straight Shooter]

57. You make a good point.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[BadNews]

64. Getting it off my chest.

Thanks for the welcome.

It is something I've noticed as I've trolled around here and I think Howard is onto something. The condisention takes many forms, but this form is one many are unwilling to look at(or at least the most vocal). It is the one thing that really drives me up the wall on this progressive board and others. I'm afraid I may have to comment on it when I see it in other threads as it arrises.

Again, thanks for the welcome. See you around.

[Solly Mack]

59. Hmmm..I can't think of a single politician that speaks down to the people

more than the entire Bush administration....I don't think it's possible to talk down to people more than that group of neo-cons do.



It's not talking down to people to express facts. It's not talking down to people to explain, no matter what they "feel", that law can't be based on their feelings. It's not talking down to people to point blank, straight out, no holds bar, tell them that law can't be based on their religion. It's not insulting them to tell them that either.

[left15]

61. Everyons vote counts the same.

We need to remember that when it comes to voting everyone's vote counts the same.

Our political system is based on the will of the majority, with a few exceptions for constutional right.

It doesen't matter how smart we are, or right we are, the only thing that matter is the will of the majority.

It truly is a popularity contest.

It dosen't matter who has the best solutions or brighest people, the votes of the 2 guys from dumb and dumber, count the same as Einstin and Hawkins.

So even if most of our country are "sheeple", it's what a majority of the "sheeple" want that counts, even if it goes against whats best for them.

If we lose elections, shame on us for not being able to heard the "sheeple" to our side.

[Generator]

63. Ugh I detest this kind of thinking

It's running rampant now that the bullies and thugs are "winning" in America.

Just because the "majority" say decided that ohh I don't know Hispanics don't have the same right to be citizens as the "white majority" would that make it right? Would that mean we would start speaking the language of the Hispanic haters?

Might doesn't make right.

Maybe CNN will have a poll that says we should send all the Gays to Guantanmo, I suppose I should care what the idiot bigots say and start pretending I hate Gay people too?

Maybe I should be like the thing I hate huh? That will win me elections. Ignorance and bigotry-maybe that's what this country is founded on.

And just because a "majority" decide something-it has nothing to do with the rule of law, the constitution, or what this country was supposed to be founded upon.

A little thing called seperation of church and state.

Seperation of powers.

And if the "majority" are WRONG, misinformed, and going to be the cause of my child's death-I'm not going to shut up about it or be nice to those that are threatening me and mine.

I guess if the voters decide a neo-Nazi is their "guy" I should try to be more like them huh?

Some of us have a conscience and it means more than winning. Moral values indeed. This country has lost it's way.

[agincourt]

67. Republicans have been talking down to their base,

for years, with unimportant distorted button issues. It's easy to see it being contagious.