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hedgetrimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:14 PM
Original message
Antibiotics may be useless in a decade
LINK: http://www.news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1077142003

~SNIP~

TARA WOMERSLEY HEALTH CORRESPONDENT


ANTIBIOTICS could be rendered useless in little over a decade because over-prescription is leading to increased resistance from disease, a leading expert has warned.

Prof Hugh McGavock, a specialist in prescribing science, has claimed that an antibiotic crisis could lead to thousands of people dying from previously treatable illnesses by 2015.

He said bacteria resistance to antibiotics is not just due to doctors prescribing them unnecessarily but also due to the use of antibiotics in the farming industry over the past 50 years.

Prof McGavock, from the University of Ulster, said that increasing resistance to such drugs could lead to surgical procedures being stopped because the antibiotics needed will be rendered useless. He added that, while many patients may be prescribed antibiotics when they do not need them, they also exacerbate the problem by failing to take their medications correctly.

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sventvkg Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bullshit..it's because they are fed to all the Livestock that we use for
Food...this is the MAIN reason for the increased resistance and it's terrible..In fact, I can't think of too many things in this world today that are not Completely fucked!! Just add this to the list..Big Business...gotta love em!!!
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JackDragna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. It's not the livestock
Animals could eat nothing but penicillin and amoxycillin and we still wouldn't get it in doses large enough to affect bacteria from eating their meat. Resistance is due to many factors, including overperscription. There are many Americans that will insist on antibiotics for any sickness, including viral diseases for which antibiotics do no good.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. also
The use of so-called antibacterial products in soaps, cleaning products. Those are another reason for increased resistance. You don't really even need them to keep your house clean. Plain soap and hot water is usually enough.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #11
23. The WHO
recommended that the use of any antimicrobial agent for growth promotion in animals be terminated if it is (1) used in human therapies or (2) known to select for cross-resistance to antimicrobials used in human medicine.*
Ê
In 1998, the European Union (EU) heeded that call and banned all growth promoting uses of antibiotics used in (or that select for cross-resistance to antibiotics used in) human medicine.*

The US meat and pharma industries are the ones who question the role of antibiotics in livestock. The most urgent question is about food borne illness. 70 million Americans are poisoned by food, mostly animal products, every year. 9,000 die.
If E. coli or salmonella (present on 80% of all poultry sold in the US) become resistant, even to Vancomycin (VISA bacteria) the salmonella victim will die, rather than spend a week of misery in the hospital. You could end up with resistant food-borne bacteria PLUS reduced efficacy due to human overuse. Both animal and human use must be slashed dramatically before one of modern medicines true miracles becomes useless.

* from Center for Science in the Public Interest.
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BloodyWilliam Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. How can anyone deny evolution after this?
Isn't this solid, obvious, basic proof of an organism adapting over several generations?
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Trek234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Preaching to the choir
Go to free republic about it. You'll find few who disagree with you here ha.
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gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I don't understand your response?
do you see this as some republican issue? I don't get it. Are you disputing this because it's on freerepublic?
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chasqui Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Eres Boliviano?
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gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. sorry my mistake I misunderstood you
N/T
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dfong63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. not really
Isn't this solid, obvious, basic proof of an organism adapting over several generations?

what you are calling "adapting" is change within a species. it's not the same thing as "evolution" of new species. NO FLAMES please. i personally do not deny evolution, i just want to point out that this result is not proof of it.

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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. Very true...
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. The problem isn't JUST that they're overprescribed...
it's ALSO that a lot of people are fucking IDIOTS, and don't TAKE all of the antibiotics that they're prescribed when, say, they have a sinus infection, ear infection, or whatever, instead opting to leave the bottle half-full once they're feeling "better", and thus allowing the development of antibiotic-resistant microbes. There's a REASON that there's a little sticker on the bottle that says "FINISH ALL of this medication UNLESS directed otherwise by your physician".
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bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Overzealous parents is another reason for overprescribing
when the doctor tells me its viral...I believe him. I don't request antibiotics for nothing....however many parents won't back off.
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gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. also the use of antibacterial soap
I know it sounds silly but anything that lessens the ability of antibiotics to work, they shouldn't be used in an everyday type way. Regular soap works good enough anyway.
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arissa Donating Member (232 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-28-03 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. 70% of antibiotics in US are given to livestock, not humans!
http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Antibiotics-Healthy-Livestock.htm

Excessive use of antibiotics by meat producers, 8 times more than in human medicine, contributes to alarming increase in antibiotic resistance

WASHINGTON - Every year in the United States 25 million pounds of valuable antibiotics -- roughly 70 percent of total US antibiotic production -- are fed to chickens, pigs, and cows for nontherapeutic purposes like growth promotion, according to a new report from the Union of Concerned Scientists. This finding -- 40 percent greater than the estimate of the livestock industry for all animal uses -- is the first transparent estimate of the quantities of antibiotics used in meat production.

The report is also the first to show that the quantities of antibiotics used in animal agriculture dwarf those used in human medicine. Nontherapeutic livestock use in chickens, pigs, and cows accounts for 8 times more antibiotics than human medicine, which is using only 3 million pounds per year.

"The meat industry's share of the antibiotic-resistance problem has been ignored for too long," said Dr. Margaret Mellon, Director of the Food and Environment Program at UCS and co-author of the new report. "Antibiotics are a precious resource and should be used in animals only when necessary."

Until now, health officials and citizens had to rely on incomplete industry estimates to design effective responses to the antibiotic-resistance problem. According to the new UCS report, "Hogging It: Estimates of Antimicrobial Abuse in Livestock," the total use of antibiotics in healthy livestock has climbed from 16 million pounds in the mid-1980s to 25 million pounds today. Of that, approximately 10 million pounds are used in hogs, 11 million pounds in poultry, and 4 million pounds in cattle.


It's NOT over-prescription!
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Yes, it is.
Rural doctors who don't have a reputation for freely prescribing antibiotics lose business over time.

There's a clear, demonstrable link between use of antibiotics in humans and spread of increasingly resistant bacteria. There's no link between this and antibiotic use in livestock. It may be there, but we're still guessing.

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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. I find this interesting coming from a source called the "scotsman"
A few years back I did research on legalized prostitution, which brought my attention to Glasgow, Scotland. What I found interesting was that their free clinic was prescribing antibiotics freely to the prostitutes. I thought it was a prescription for disaster since even I could see that some very scary STDs were going to build resistance to our antibiotics over a period of time. If this concern realizes itself over time, people may begin to understand the principle behind social pragmatism.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Do you mean prescribing them before symptoms?
If so, I can see it could be a problem.

If you just mean 'giving them out for free when the prostitutes come to the clinic with a disease', then of course the clinic would. That's what a national health service is for.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. They were prescribing them freely.
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 07:37 AM by The Backlash Cometh
Meaning that the clinics understood their patient's lifestyle (which was also drug-related) and prescribed anti-biotics, rather than to simply send them home with instructions to get bed rest -- something that was unrealistic. And, yes, the articles did suggest that the drugs were given in a pro-active manner.
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
17. Madison Avenue has made us fearful of any and all "germs"...
Anti-bacterial this and anti-bacterial that...I stopped using all that stuff when I considered what would happen to the bacteria that managed to escape the lemon-scented anti-biotic onslaught from my dishrag...

My kid was totally indoctrinated. EVERY sniffle, stuff nose, cugh, etc. and she wanted me to haul her to the sawbones so she could "get something for this". Never mind that I explained that there was nothing he could give her,(Hell, the doctor even had posters in his exam rooms explaining that he would not prescribe anything for a cold because it wouldn't work)but she thought I was being "mean"...

"Ask your Docotr"...Abnd if he won't give you amoxicillin, somebody else will....

Really, there's a lot of "germs" out there that won't do a damn thing to you...Let your kids play in the dirt, like I did. They'll be healthier for it.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
20. Antibiotics are given like candy in Taiwan by doctors. Because
if you don't get your customers well quickly then people will spread the word this doctor is not good. A doctor who cures your ills quickly is good.

Any problem you are given antibiotics.

I have about 10 friends who are doctors. They know it is wrong but say they must do it because the other doctors do it.

This can be confirmed by any person who has lived in Taiwan.
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veganwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
21. dont forget the hormones
Edited on Mon Sep-29-03 09:22 AM by veganwitch
food animals are pumped with growth hormones from the second they are born until they are slaughtered. and over course, monsanto, the makes or rBGH, found in cows milk, and others says there is absolutely nothing wrong.

this increased use of growth hormones in food animals seems to have a correlation with girls getting their periods earlier and earlier. and there is a correlation between early periods and reproductive cancer later in life.

(of course there is probably a risk with young boys but menarche is the very visible and definate and date-able sign of maturity. voice changes, body hair etc. can come in over time and are not as definate.)
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
22. Very real threat; the Dutch already reacted and stopped routine use
of Antibiotics. They're lobbying other European healthcare systems to do the same, and limit the use of antibiotics to life-threatening sickness.

The use of antibiotics for animals is already limited in the EU and a bill to stop the use completely is underway (scheduled for 2005).




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shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-29-03 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
24. Situation is more complex than reflected in some of the posts.
Antibiotics are given on a cautionary basis for more than prostitutes. Often before dental procedures, because if the patient has a heart problem, otherwise it could lead to sudden death. (My uncle had a fatal heart attack back in the 1960s right after having three teeth pulled.) Also, I believe some rheumatic fever survivors must take penicillin on a daily basis.

While it's true that they're often prescribed unnecessarily, we need to look at where that pressure is ultimately coming from. It's not just that patients are impatient for a "quick cure." It's no longer acceptable to employers to stay home for several days, even if you have sick leave to cover it. Draconian sick leave policies make people determined to "stay on their feet" and go back to work when it would be better medically for the patient to spend several days in limited activity or bed rest instead.

Lastly, I recently read about a study that claims that even good doctors tend to _undertreat_ rather than overtreat patients' illnesses. Have no citation to the study, & don't remember if antibiotics were discussed, but still, it makes you wonder...
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