Russell Yates says he's ready for new family

[Horse with no Name]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7418381/

Andrea Yates, 40, claimed she was insane at the time she drowned the couple’s children. She was sentenced to life in prison for three of the deaths, but the convictions were overturned in January by an appeals court panel. Prosecutors have asked the full court to reconsider.

Russell Yates said he’s dating, though he declined to give details. He said he might eventually remarry and have more children.

“I have the freedom now,” he said. “I’d like to do that someday and possibly have a family again... But I’m not 20. I’m 40. So I have to reassess where I’m at, what I have to offer.”


I think this man should be rotting in a prison cell instead of contemplating a new family. IMHO, his actions and inactions contributed to the death of his 5 children.

[wicket]

1. puke

:puke:

[BlueIris]

158. I will second your puke.

I've actually wanted to throw up a lot since reading this story.

[formerrepuke]

2. Is wife #2 also going to be a "stay-at-home" baby factory, who also..

homeschools? Who the hell wants that?

[Warpy]

10. That might sound romantic to some witless young thing

in her late teens or early 20s who has been raised in the bosom of some fundy church. Those little gals are raised to be captive brood mares and unpaid domestic servants, just like the 50s wife but without her family income.

They don't find out the reality of the situation until it's far too late.

[LeftyMom]

36. I do. Not with Rusty of course. ;)

Why the quotes around "stay-at-home"? Are you questioning the legitimacy of that term or just the legitimacy of choosing not to work outside the home?

-LM, a homeschooling work-at-home parent

[formerrepuke]

42. One got the impression that Andrea Yates was not at home and

homeschooling entirely of her own volition- like she was pressed into service, I meant...

[LeftyMom]

47. According to people I know who knew her

(only online, they weren't her closest friends or anything, so she may have tried to misrepresent herself) she never questioned the homeschooling or the SAHM aspects of thier lifestyle to them. I don't know as she was as enthusiastic about thier QFness as he was, but to be fair the QF movement does say that the choice should be made mutually and if either parent disagrees they should hold off and pray for guidance.

The only thing that seemed odd was that she was on a very tight budget in aquiring items for the daughter, but that didn't stick out that much because many people are strapped when expecting. (She wanted some feminine baby clothes and cloth diapers, but had very little to spend so she mostly swapped for them.) Nobody really knew at the time what a tight household budget he kept her on whild spending money on himself.

[kath]

58. QF???

[LeftyMom]

59. Here's a link

http://www.quiverfull.com/

Basicly it's the belief that using birth control reveals a lack of faith because God won't allow you to bear more children than you can handle and he'll provide for the ones he gives you. (Needless to say I think this is a load of crap, but I know people who beleve in it and have happy healthy families.)

[genieroze]

79. I'm a Christian and that's a load of crap. God gave me a brain to know how

many kids I can handle.

[Nobody]

184. My favorite phrase: "alleged overpopulation"

Unless they all plan to move to Antarctica or the interior of Greenland, there really isn't anyplace else for them to go that doesn't already have enough people.

I notice that they don't the the FAQ for: What about the health of the mother, the doctor says she shouldn't have any more.

And the doctor DID say this in the case of Andrea Yates. I'm extremely thankful my own father isn't one of these quiver full fanatics.

Apparently we're not allowed to make use of our sentience.

[Missy Vixen]

124. I'm wondering about this

>QF movement does say that the choice should be made mutually and if either parent disagrees they should hold off and pray for guidance.<

Somehow, I'm thinking to myself that Rusty Yates didn't listen to a thing Andrea had to say, about the QF movement or anything else. He wouldn't even listen to the doctor that told them after the third child was born that Andrea's having more children would certainly lead to additional PPD.

IMHO, YMMV.

Julie

[Mugweed]

168. I wish I were a stay-at-home

Careers suck. Our society has pushed us into a situation where we have to go to a college, choose something we think we might not get bored doing, earn a degree, get a job, waste the best years of our lives doing that job, retire and be too old to enjoy the things you wanted to do when you were young and working all day. People say "Why not do what you love most?" Well, because if I made a 50-70 hour a week job out of it, I wouldn't love it anymore.

Are you sure that Mr. Yates was aware that his wife was a danger to his kids? I mean, some people are making him out to be co-responsible.

[BlueIris]

61. Ladies and gents, my new favorite poster! n/t

[Jo March]

3. Amen

I agree with you. He contributed - he knew that his wife was sick but he just wanted more and more children.

[supernova]

4. Ugh. Who would be stupid enough to have sex with him?

Some other woman with deep emotional problems, I guess.

Edit: He doesn't need another kid; he needs a vasectomy.

[pelagius]

20. I'd chip in for a vasectomy for him!

He could even have it Hawaii on my dime; I don't care.

If people chipped in no more than 50 cents a piece, I bet we'd have enough for a first-class ticket and a top-flight urologist by the end of the week.

[BlueIris]

62. So would I. And I'm broke. I would do that for a lot of men, truly. n/t

[OzarkDem]

72. I'd agree to do the surgery for free

and I'm not even a doctor. I could figure it out.

[BlueIris]

76. If I give you my ex's phone number, could you go practice on him?

KIDDING, everyone. JUUUUUST kidding. Sort of. My ex isn't quite as bad as Russell, here, but only by a hair.

[XemaSab]

126. If cowboys can do it

it can't be that hard....

[BlueIris]

161. That's what I say. n/t

[The Flaming Red Head]

172. a vasectomy ought to be mandatory for him.

What if he picks another helpless soul like Andrea to prove his masculinity. UGHHHH

[BlueIris]

185. And lots of people.

God, these thoughtless, maniac, misogynist breeders enrage me.

[calimary]

5. Oh GREAT. Go knock 'em up some more, guy.

And yes, I agree with the postscript. His behavior did INDEED contribute to what his wife, Andrea, was driven to do.

[efhmc]

6. Godess protect that poor woman.

[flygal]

34. And the poor children he wants to have

[BlueIris]

105. Truly. It's their offspring I feel for.

I always, seriously, even with my lack of desire for biological children of my own, feel for the kids the most in these tragic situations. What will they be learning about relationships, including those problematic ones known as marriages, particularly the kind Russell intends to base on treating his new spouse like an incubator build? What will they learn about their own value, both to their parents and the world? In the case of the other Yates children, we'll never know.

[Mandate My Ass]

7. "I have to reassess where I’m at, what I have to offer."

Here's a clue for ya, Rusty. How about you offer your new offspring a house instead of a dilapidated bus? That's just for starters.

What a complete creep.

[Fenris]

8. So he wants another woman to go through the same hell he put

Wife #1 through?

That fucker ought to be castrated.

[Princess Turandot]

120. Amen to that. nm

[Catherine Vincent]

9. Who would want him?

Well I guess some desperate conservative type would.

[Zgrrl]

29. If Scott Peterson is getting love letters from women in jail...

...then someone will marry this piece of scum. There is no shortage of stupid people in this world.

[Shallah Kali]

46. Women wanted to have jeffrey dahamer's baby

:crazy:

If there are women dumb enough to do that then someone idiot will want Yates. BTW didn't he say this back when she was on trial that he wanted to marry again and have children? Is he bringing this up now as a way of advertising for a new broodmare?

[Kimber Scott]

84. I used to work in the jail. We had a guy who raped and killed a 14 year

old paper-girl. She was collecting her subscription money in an apartment complex while her mother waited in the car. The girl never came back. The police found her body a couple days later in the dumpster. This guy was a maintenance man at the complex. Somehow, he caught the attention of the police. They searched his apartment and found the little girl's vomit in his bedroom closet. Once the trial hit the nightly news women started coming out of the woodwork "in love" with this guy. He had bags and bags of mail. One time, when I went to get him out for a visit, he told me he didn't understand why all these women were coming to see him.

Some women, many women, believe they can love a man enough to save him, I guess. It's pretty sad and sick. I think they also like the brush with celebrity, no matter how evil the person is. Can you imagine telling your friends about your new, misunderstood, boyfried -the child-rapist-murderer?

[Auntie Bush]

87. I'll bet all the women in those bags of mail...all voted for bush*!

[Kimber Scott]

98. I'd like to think so, but I bet low self-esteem is non-partisan. nt

[Horse with no Name]

110. I don't think it's merely low self esteem

It is co-depency. Some women need men they can "take care of".
What a perfect candidate.
It manifests in some women as one of those ladies you know that likes "bad boys".
Some just take it a little further than others.:shrug:

[XemaSab]

127. Like that woman who married the Night Stalker

like, Ramirez shouted "Hail Satan!" at his arraignment. He's guilty as shit of raping old ladies, yet you're attracted to this dude?

WTF???

[YellowRubberDuckie]

163. Ramirez has convinced her that he's innocent...

He's just been framed. She's helping with his appeals. :eyes:
Duckie

[XemaSab]

169. Innocent men don't yell

"HAIL SATAN!" at their arraignments.

I take his yelling that as a full confession, personally.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

175. Oh they had so much evidence against him it was sad.

Wasn't he nearly caught in the act or something?
Duckie

[XemaSab]

176. What happened is

someone saw a suspicious car driving through the neighborhood around the time of one of the killings. It turned out the car was stolen, and the cops finally found the car abandoned. They got Ramirez' prints off the car, and they were able to figure out who the prints belonged to, and match them to prints from one of the crime scenes.

Ramirez tried to steal another car a few days later, and the residents of the neighborhood basically beat him down.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/ramirez/terror_1.html?sect=1

[YellowRubberDuckie]

177. I never remember. lol

[BlueIris]

140. How true this is. The weak, stupid, underinformed and uninformed

are everywhere. And I don't even have an adjective for the mindset of a woman who would marry a man so upfront about his desire to treat her like a walking uterus/diaper disposal.

[EFerrari]

11. Well, I've talked to Rusty Yates.

And while I agree he bears responsibility, so does the whole family, the neighborhood and in particular the IDIOT medical team whose job it was to care for Andrea.

Psychosis can be very subtle -- until it's not. Yates could have gotten active and found this out before he kept letting pregnancies evolve.

But this is absolutely NO EXCUSE for the medical people. It is their job to know and to act on what they know.

[meppie-meppie not]

38. I respectfully must disagree. The problem was not with the medical

team necessarily but with the insurance company and their coverage or lack/failure thereof.

Depression can be subtle psychosis is not. Those immediately surrounding her would have been abundantly aware of her break with reality given she did not exhibit any schizo-affective limitations. Hence, verbal about what was going on internally throughout.

[EFerrari]

56. With all due respect, not necessarily.

I've lived with a (thankfully now on track) low functioning borderline who decompensated with paranoia and delusions about once every 5-10 days for YEARS until I got the docs to return my calls, to "allow" me in the loop. It's a miracle I'm here to tell the tale, no lie. (And, perhaps a bias I have?)

So, would like to point out these hard won lessons from my own experience:

1. Psychosis can be invisible even to trained eyes. Even over time. Even when the family tries to speak up. I'm no wallflower and it took me nearly 8 years to get the appropriate meds for my husband.

Eight years is THE AVERAGE, as I recently read in a BBC report. (Can dig for the link if you want.) And this was with my husband's full cooperation and motivation to improve his situation.

2. It is possible to be observed for 50 minutes and to have your extremity not be "seen". Some conditions do not read well 50 minutes at a time.

3. It is highly unusual for treatment teams to draw on the vast experience a family has with an ill family member. On the contrary, we are actively encouraged to shut up, let the "pros" do their work, and in some cases, to dump our family member. That is what is happening right now in this country. A very useful and -- as we can see -- potentially lifesaving resource, the family, is routinely discounted, disrespected and yet expected to handle 24/7 what the docs can't or won't handle.

4. About the insurance mafia, I agree. And given his situation, Yates had about the best insurance you can get.

It's just too easy to bash Rusty Yates. The problem is systemic and communal. We have THE BEST MENTAL HEALTH TECH on the planet. It doesn't get delivered. And no one is taking responsibility for that.

On the other hand, some good links: World Fellowship for Schizophrenia and Related Disorders: www.world-schizophrenia.org

They have a great program: Families as Partners in Care.


Also, The Consensus Project -- Law enforcement, families, social workers, consumers, all the stakeholders -- came together again after two needless deaths. I give these guys an A+ for honesty, for inclusiveness and for dedication: www.consensusproject.org

A bit about us: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/08/29/newsstand.ferrari/


peace,
Beth

/damn typing :)

[meppie-meppie not]

69. you've certainly been through the mill but you're comparing

apples to oranges, so to speak. I'm somewhat confused by your presentation of "low functioning borderline who decompensated with paranoia and delusions" and later referencing Schizophrenia, the 2 are not the same. Andrea's condition was different from both Schizophrenia and Borderline Personality. Hers was Post Partum Psychosis. She had been repeatedly hospitalized until the insurance ran out and family members (on both sides) came to look after her because she was doing so poorly. If your country had a humane health care system she and her children might have had a fighting chance.

[EFerrari]

70. Psychosis is psychosis and no reputable professional would

draw a hard line between Borderline, Schizophrenia and Post Partuum Psychosis in reality, although they might do it on an insurance form.

So, not at all apples and oranges.

And I heartily agree with you that our lack of universal health care and unfortunate inattention to mental health is getting people dead and ruining lives. Today.

[meppie-meppie not]

82. Irrespective of the insult, a professional has to draw a line between

the different disorders because they each respond variably to different treatment modalities. Talking therapies and drugs are very effective with Borderlines whereas with Schizophrenia drugs is the primary treatment plan, psychotherapy has very limited effectiveness. With PPP drugs would be most important initially with strong (and this cannot be emphasized enough) social support if the individual is not hospitalized, the talking therapy comes much later and then is the primary with adjunctive drug therapy to treat the underlying depression. Motivation is a significant factor with the first 2 disorders very case dependent (variable), and the latter disorder the individuals are generally highly motivated to participate in treatment once the psychosis has been ameliorated. The differences are important.

[EFerrari]

89. Irrespective of the perceived insult,

the differences are important in theory but don't seem to be in delivery of technology. And no, it's not easy to read Schizophrenia vs Borderline vs Post partum psychosis in 50 minute increments.

**Until we get our technology delivered, our postulates are beside the point. And people will die. Did die today.**

Why do you think the Los Angeles County Jail is the biggest mental health provider in the world? Because our mental health system, community awareness, family education or consumer support are so effective?

And btw, where are you getting your data on talking therapy for ANY of these three situations? Honestly, I'd like to see it.

And btw2, my wish is beside the point. The point is, two days before Andrea killed her children, her doctor withdrew her anti-psychotic medications. And let her go home.

I can't defend that, no matter my ties to the mental health profession.

Beth

/typing from hell

[meppie-meppie not]

93. are you telling me that in the States you don't use any form of

psychotherapy for Borderlines, PPP or even Schizophrenics?

[EFerrari]

103. No, I'm telling you is that therapy for these folks

is not widely available and often delivered by people who are not proficient.

Again, using Los Angeles County as an example: it has the largest public clinic in the country. They provide both "psychotherapy" and monitoring of medications. Or, that is their mission. In reality, there is effectively no psychotherapy being delivered and no real monitoring of medications. When you walk into the building, it looks as if populated by sleepwalkers. And that's the staff.

Public services are only appropriate in the rare instance and few people can afford private ones. It's not a good situation and I expect it to become worse in the next few years as our funding is cut back to fund Bu$h's illegal war and line his cronies pockets.

That's why, unlike Rusty Yates, our families must become knowledgeable and proactive on all fronts. ("Getting a vocabulary is my only defense." - Wit) We don't have the luxury of depending on an underfunded , under trained and overburdened profession.

[meppie-meppie not]

117. Wow! How very sad. I see where you're coming from now and certainly

understand where the differences of psychosis and it's appearance relative to different disorders would be a moot point. So many things have angered me with your government in the past 5 years and this one just topped my list! Unfreaking believable. What a horrendous disservice to you all.

The greatness of a society does not reside in the huge monstrosities we build but in how we care for the weakest members of our society. I thought that's what the "Christian" values was all about, founded on, i.e. the teachings of Christ. I guess "Compassionate Conservatism" must really be "Selective Compassion" where the weak and downtrodden are not part of the select!

[EFerrari]

118. Exactly!

Sorry if I was unclear. I wrote an article for The World Fellowship for Schizophrenia and Related Disorders on this topic, vis a vis Borderline families struggling to secure treatment. I don't know if they have archives.

Good to meet you, meppie.

[meppie-meppie not]

119. good to meet you too sfexpat! I would sure like to read your article.

It's been my experience that whether the it's patients themselves or their family members who embark on research into the psychological disorder at hand, they more often than not end up knowing more about the disorder than we do. They bring to the table a wealth of information based on their own ordeals that we fail to appreciate. My dream is to have health care policies fashioned from health care professionals in tandem with families/patients.

What we've been touching on is the primary reason I hate today and hated before Ronald Reagan. His mantra could have been "don't treat the mentally ill just put them out on the street, we have lots of those".

[EFerrari]

121. Then, check out the World Fellowship

They have a great program -- "Families as Partners in Care" and much of it is posted to their site.

http://www.world-schizophrenia.org/

If I can find a copy of the article, I'm send it over to you. I know it was in a "thanksgiving" issue, probably 2001.

best,
Beth

[meppie-meppie not]

122. thanks for the link and the info, added to favourites!

:hi:

[OzarkDem]

129. Not always underfunded

In our state there are hundreds of millions in federal, state and local funds spent on mental health, but little of it seems to filter down to the patient level. Lots of well paid bureaucracy, though.

[meppie-meppie not]

136. no doubt to some repukian HMO!

:mad:

[EFerrari]

142. Good point. Dollars do not equal services. n/t

[conflictgirl]

155. And services should not just always be drugs, only

Publicly funded mental health is fairly widely available where I live (a very blue-collar, economically depressed town in Michigan), but it ONLY comes in the form of medication. Talk therapy, behavioral modification training, etc is not covered, but drugs are not only covered but strongly recommended by TPTB.

[caligirl]

123. Not wanting to be in this nice little discussion but here in the bay

area we just had an elderly woman walking with her husband isn a place that hasn't had any crime for 20 years(residential very nice) when a mental health patient jumped out of the BMW she was in with her mental health follower, and she slashed the old womans throat. In broad daylight with no motive. The woman nearly died. The mental patient like so many wasn't getting inpatient treatment, no services available to her i think, and so they assign followers to them. The follower here did nothing to help the victim, and was saught after as an accessory.

[meppie-meppie not]

128. OMG! When will your government learn that the ostrich routine

just doesn't cut it! This makes me so damn angry. Sad state of affairs :(

[OzarkDem]

130. Mental health profession

bears some responsibility. They should be providing better training than this.

[meppie-meppie not]

134. in this situation definitely! For certain something smells fishy

about this case.

[EFerrari]

145. They have so little support themselves.

You can't give what you don't have.

[meppie-meppie not]

149. are you referring to the front line workers? It's sounding like there

is a dearth of training, funding and support.

Our societies have our priorities so mixed up. We pay CEO's literally millions to rape our lands and those abroad and to pick our pockets while forever lining their own and yet we won't pay health care workers a living wage or provide them with proper training and support. Disgusting. :(

[EFerrari]

150. Especially health care workers. And particularly mental health

care workers.

Here in the States, we're not far from the Jane Eyre/Bertha Mason situation.

I used to be very angry about the state of the profession, until I truly understood what they are up against.

Well, if we keep talking, keep some pressure on, people will learn and will learn to speak up. Let's not shut up. Let's save some lives from needless damage or ruin.

B.

[meppie-meppie not]

154. Absolutely! People can't change what they're not aware of. There

is such a stigma still attached to mental illness.

If we don't treat the mentally ill, if we just set them loose to live on the streets or for their families to deal with alone, then they don't exist. That seems to be the prevailing thinking to the power brokers and it's got to stop.

[EFerrari]

143. I was once arrested for crying in my livingroom.

It's a matter of public record actually. My husband was psychotic (being denied the meds he needed) and believed I was attacking him. He dialed 911 and whooooooooooooooosh, I went from quiet despair to baloney sandwiches to signing a release "you weren't arrested, just detained" to cover the SFPD's @ss in about 10 horrible hours.

But, I don't blame the PD. They have protocols; they didn't have the training to do an assessment. They aren't SHRINKS! But, the PD and our families are in the front lines of mental health provision with little more than the seat of our pants. (How's that for a tortured metaphor, lol, ?)

So, while there's a gazillion things that I disagree with Rusty Yates on, I'm old enough to remember when adults put these issues into the hands of trusted professionals. And carried out doctors' orders.

We can't do that any more. We have to inform ourselves and develop strategies to deal with mental illness under our own roof and in our community. Because before it gets better, it will get worse, sorry to say.

On the other hand, I've worked with our families for a decade. They are incredibly resilient and committed. Who knows what these families could do with a little support. A lot, imho.


/typos, mine :)

[janx]

85. Yeah, well that's all fine and good, but what about taking the advice

of a traveling preacher and throwing this woman's life into a trailer with five kids? Are you kidding?

That's horrible for anyone, let alone a person with mental disabilities.

[EFerrari]

90. True, Janx, but as far as I know, that isn't what happened.

Andrea was not doing/feeling/functioning well. So, two days before the murders, Rusty and Andrea where at the doctor's again. He withdrew the anti-psychotic meds she was on AND SENT HER HOME.

So, much as I don't agree with Rusty, his beliefs, his ethics, so many things, he wasn't the physician in charge.

The oath says, "First, do no harm."

[Eloriel]

132. About bashing Rusty Yates

Beth -- that's an amazing post and I really admire you for all you've been through and the knowledge and perspective you bring to this subject from that angle.

But really, now, go back and just read his comment about what "he's" ready for -- a whole new family and all that. Is that a man who ------

sorry, words fail me about this creep. I don't care how true ALL of what you've said is, he's still a worthless, narcissistic scumbag not worthy of living free himself, not with (the former?) Mrs. Yates dealing with what she's dealing with. IMNSHO.

How dare he dream about a future with another family. How fucking dare he.

[EFerrari]

144. I wouldn't be surprised if what he's saying is just a wish

for a "normal" life -- one that he'll never be able to have.

As far as I can tell, both from watching him on Larry King et al, and from a short email correspondence, it's going to be a cold day in hell when he gets "over" this terrible, needless tragedy.

I don't really know the guy. But I have hit many brick walls trying to contain and help a partner that was just as ill. If I weren't more stubborn than God . . . and maybe if I weren't the oldest daughter of an immigrant family, lol, well, maybe I'd be him.

That probably makes no sense. But this may: If I'd gone on the directions I was given by my husband's doctors, I'd be dead and he'd be in the pen. This is not drama, it's just true.

I bet I was raised to question authority more than Rusty, or maybe, given my class, just had to to survive. (And, we're still here; everyone got out alive.) It's totally real to me how a man in his privileged position just did not pay enough attention, and in fact, was probably praised for his conduct by his family, his church, the medical team.

I've no stake in defending Yates. But, in all honesty, I can see so easily and sort of horribly how it happened.

Don't know how to put it more clearly.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Let him be impotent....

[meppie-meppie not]

39. wonder if Lorraina Bobbit is busy? nt

[BrklynLiberal]

41. That is so funny. I was debating between impotence and Loraina Bobbet.

[BlueIris]

63. YEAH. I might start believing in god if that could happen.

Anyone know if Russ is a laptop user?

[skylarmae]

13. I agree. It never sat well with me that Andrea was the

only person to face criminal charges in this matter. The Doctors who were treating her, Russell, the parents and anyone else who had even a glimpse that those children were in such danger and did nothing to save them......should also be in jail...IMHO

[BlueIris]

165. I'll share your opinion.

All those individuals are complicit in her crime; they should have been painfully aware of what she was about to do.

[Kerrytravelers]

14. “I have the freedom now,”

Freedom now?

That just resonates wrong to me. How can this man feel free? His five children are dead and his very sick wife sits alone in prison. He sould be wearing that heavily on his heart. If anything, it should be a prison for him, too (if not literally, than figuratively.)

To say, I have freedom now indicates to me this is a very sick man.

[BlueIris]

64. Most REVOLTING remark ever. EVER.

Seriously, I think that might top EVERY SINGLE STATEMENT EVER MADE BY BUSH for me. "I have the freedom, now." Well, that's the privilege of being the male in this situation, isn't it, you slimy little remorseless bastard? I can't imagine wanting to LIVE after losing a child, particularly one in which I felt responsible (oh, wait, he clearly DOESN'T) let alone wanting to go breed a bunch more. What an asshole.

[zann725]

100. Were we ever told what religion this family was?

I remember seeing a family photo of them all seated in the livingroom, and a large religious picture was centered above the couch. Their large number of children might've had something to do with their religion discouraging birth control.

Anyone know?

[entanglement]

113. I agree the guy is quite a fundie

but what is he to do now? Why should he be denied the right to move on and salvage something from his shipwrecked life (dead children / psychotic wife)? Maybe he's learned his lessons. Don't you think he's suffered enough punishment for his backward views?

[Kerrytravelers]

125. "I have freedom now."

I have freedom now.


I have freedom now.




THat sounds callous and cold. Put yourself in his place. Would "freedom" be your feeling? Freedom from what? A sick wife? Your five children.

I have freedom now.



I would never think of "freedom" as a way to describe my feelings regarding the death of my five children by the hand of my mentally sick wife. There is moving forard with your life, but freedom?

By using the word "freedom" I'm not sure he understands that he even played a role in what happened. Seeing this guy on tv over the past few years since this happened, he always seemed a bit confused as to why people wondered about his role. The word freedom shows that he really hasn't grown that much at all.

The guy is just cold.

[entanglement]

151. Hmmm, I agree that sounds callous.

I'd certainly not feel 'free' after such an event.

[Eloriel]

135. Suffered enough punishment?

SUFFERED ENOUGH PUNISHMENT?

Watching his sick -- REALLY sick WIFE (insane -- or what should pass for legally insane if we had a viable JUSTICE system) -- take all the blame? And then blithely move the fuck on when the mood strikes? (Wow, you talk about your male privilege and sense of entitlement.)

HIS shipwrecked life? What,pray tell, about hers?

Please, tell me. What lessons do you think he's learned? What SUFFERING do you think he's done (beyond losing the kids, of course)? I'd especially like you to explain the suffering vis a vis the suffering SHE'S done. I'd especially like you to explain the suffering he's done that comes from his NOT having helped his wife get the help she so desperately needed, which is, after all, what resulted in the deaths of his children. I'd especially like you to explain what remorse he feels for his participation in driving his wife bonkers -- all those kids, all that homeschooling, etc.

Yes, please tell me about his lessons. I am ALL ears.

[entanglement]

164. Well, my point was that

the loss of five children is an incredibly traumatic event and he should have learned something from that; it appears he hasn't (which is quite amazing) and that is quite despicable.

[DesEtoiles]

15. 5 children and he, reportedly, never changed even one diaper

Honey, when you're done with your 20 hour day of cooking, cleaning, breast-feeding and home-schooling 5 kids under the age of 8, get into bed and "service" me so me can have more kids..."as many as nature will allow", is, I believe, how he put it.

[pelagius]

22. Damn! My wife would have killed ME...

...if I had pulled a stunt like that. And what's more, it would have been justifiable homocide in my book!

[BlueIris]

65. WHY DO WOMEN ANYWHERE PUT UP WITH THAT?

Dads--50%. That's how you EARN your share of a child that your partner put her body, health and life on the line to produce. Anything less? Don't even try to tell me you're a parent. I know a pile of selfish little sperm donners who pretend to be asleep while their babies are crying, or need changing, or are sick and need someone to stay up with them. I won't even acknowledge those "men" at the parties those couples attend. Sick, irresponsible and horrid creatures.

[janx]

88. If they can't get "any" anymore, they don't care about the kids.

It sounds ridiculous, but it's true.

Once the cunt is gone, so are the kids.

[BlueIris]

92. I just...I know that sadly you are far too correct, but

it's completely...how terrible are those men? There's no adjective in the world adequate to describe how repugnant that attitude is. My brain shuts down thinking about it.

[Eloriel]

137. Actually, there is one adjective

or noun, actually (which can be made into an adjective) and IMO it fits very well: misogynist

[BlueIris]

157. Oh, right. I think I'd just used that one too many times the day I

posted that comment. And you know, to me, it's still not mean enough. "Oh, the sex isn't the same since your body nutured and gave birth to our child? Fuck you, then, I'm getting myself someone unspoiled." NOT MEAN ENOUGH FOR THAT EVIL MINDSET.

[American Tragedy]

182. The very existence of the kids seems to indicate they're getting some.

Are you saying that it turns into a strictly procreative act?

[MountainLaurel]

170. They're raised that way

Taught from the moment they're born that they are nothing more than baby making machines here to breed more of Jesus's followers.

[CoffeeCat]

148. As sick as this sounds...

...it is EXACTLY what the right wingers are propping up.

Have you listened to Dr. Laura?

She lambastes any mother who choses to work outside the home. I was a caller on her show once. I asked her if it was ok to take three hours per week, for myself (yoga class, jogging, shopping, whatever). She told me I could buy one of those jogging strollers and take my kids with me--a 2 year old and a 6 month old! She basically said that I didn't deserve three hours to myself. Then she hung up on me!

Have ya checked out Dr. Laura's book "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands." Man, we should book club that one on this board. Women are supposed to stay home, clean, cook and make the home a wonderful presentation for when he walks in the door. And we're suppose to service them like trained weasels in heat.

It's not just Dr. Laura--the entire fundienuts feel this way. While they might not say it as you have--that's exactly what they believe.

[ikojo]

166. Dr Laura is such a fine embodiment of loving

conservative values. Her own mother lay dead for weeks before Dr Laura even knew or cared.

[Nobody]

181. You notice that Ms "You can't take a break" Laura

doesn't herself stay home with her own kidlets. She's off doing a radio show and not following her own advice.

I'd like to see a caller tell her that Laura goes first and caller will follow. Caller won't ever have to because Laura isn't about to.

These right wingers are just fine with telling you how to live but they won't set the example. Could it be because Laura and co LIKE working and not being around preschoolers 24/7 with no breaks?

[TahitiNut]

16. Well, you just gotta love the DOMA folks.

Heaven forbid the sanctity of the Yates' marriage be threatened by GLBT partnerships! :eyes:

[happynewyear]

17. sterilize Yates!

Let the gov't pay for a free vasectomy (rather than the birth of another 1/2 dozen kids)! We don't need any more children that aren't properly cared for. :grr:

:kick:

[librechik]

23. beat me to this obvious solution n/t

[anarchy1999]

18. I just hope he's had some serious mental couseling and has recognized

the role he played in this tragic nightmare.

(my personal opinion of him, I can't post here)

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. God help us all

That loony tune is gonna get another batch of puppies dead.

Jesus, sweet sweet Jesus.

[stanwyck]

21. Didn't a DUer ask

Who would want to marry David Shaivo?
Well, I'd rather marry Shaivo than Yates.
This caring father and husband left his five young children with a woman who had been repeatedly hospitalized for severe depression. Now, if she had been suffering from a severely incapcitating physical disease, would Yates have left his children alone with her? Well, maybe. The guy is practically autistic. He lacks awareness and empathy.
He should have been held acountable for his negligent behavior.

[KamaAina]

53. Practically autistic?! Ouch.

The guy is practically autistic. He lacks awareness and empathy.

I'll give you "lacks awareness and empathy", but that's not necessarily a symptom of autism. It is also closely associated with the incurable, debilitating Bush-Falwell Syndrome. :-)

People with autism, alas, rarely get to have families. The opposite gender just doesn't seem to be picking up the right signals -- believe me. Quite a few of us do, however, (unlike Yates) possess awareness and empathy -- else what would have led so many of us to DU?

I can categorically state that any female would be FAR, FAR happier with me, or any of several other DUers who have autism, than with cruel and heartless Russell Yates. Autism is, depending on your point of view, a cognitive, neurological, or psychiatric disability. What Yates has may be considered to be a spiritual disability, and there's no independent living movement to work with it, I'm afraid.

edit: added autism-related quote

[stanwyck]

54. I apologize

for the autism remark. I should have used different terms. Thanks for your enlightenment. I am sorry.

[politicat]

55. Sociopathic, not autistic.

Lack of empathy is a sociopathic trait, not an autistic trait.

However, with that small change, I can't disagree.

[Stephanie]

152. David Schaivo went back to school for nursing and respiratory therapy

So he could help his wife get better. He spent seven years trying to make her better, before the doctors convinced him it could never happen. There is no more devoted husband than David Schaivo. He suffered the fury of the Irrational Right in order to save his wife from her suffering. He could have just handed her over to her parents but instead he took the heat to do what was right for her. I would marry David Schaivo in a heartbeat. That's a real man.

[LisaL]

178. First of all, there is no such man as David Schiavo.

And second of all, I fail to see how one control freak is any better than the other.
And third of all, Mr. Michael Schiavo promised the jury he would take care of his wife Terri for the rest of his life, he promised to take her home and take care of her at home if he got the means. He got the money, but didn't keep his promise. I only hope new Mrs. Schiavo fares better than old Mrs. Schiavo.

[StuckinKS]

24. Fundies

will embrace Rusty's wish to move forward and start another family, but they decry Michael Schiavo doing the same thing.

I know the situations are not the same. But they have the common thread of a husband wishing to start anew after his wife is no longer available to be a wife to him. Terri Schiavo was in a persistent vegetative state for many years and Andrea Yates is in prison, paying the price for a crime caused by a mental illness aggravated by her husband's unreasonable demands.

[iamjoy]

27. Situations Are Similiar

if not the same.
True, the fundies thought Michael was wishing to murder Terri, and Rusty just wants to divorce Andrea. Of course, Michael was offered money to divorce Terri, walk away, and he wouldn't. How many fundies or other Conservatives think Andrea should get the death penalty for killing those children, never mind that she was mentally ill? Wait, Andrea was disabled, emotionally crippled. You wish to kill a disabled woman? So you see where we can take this argument.

So, yes, there is a common thread.

[LisaL]

57. Absence of divorce didn't stop Mr. Schiavo of starting a whole

new family, did it?
At least Mr. Yates is going to divorce Andrea before starting on his new brood of children.

[anarchy1999]

60. Already divorced. "At least", Lizzy?

You've just got to be kidding me? You are standing up for Rusty?

Sweet.

[bettyellen]

67. why don't you go for it, lizzy? sounds like you and rusty would hit it off

[Horse with no Name]

80. lol

****sitting on hands********

[LisaL]

114. Well, maybe you and Mr. Schiavo would hit it off-considering

he is a widower now.
:eyes:

[iamjoy]

81. As Far As Mr. Schiavo Was Concerned...

Terri had died. He had been trying for years (before he became involved with the other woman) to release her body, but her parents kept fighting it.

[meppie-meppie not]

95. that's a naive statement and ignores the facts IMHO. n/t

[Horse with no Name]

25. Well the solution would be for him to marry Lorena Bobbitt.

:)

[calimary]

33. I think we have a winner here.

:)

[snooper2]

26. Why is this news??

Why the fuck is this news....why oh why oh why...on the front page of MSGOP no less...

[Swamp Rat]

28. Fuck you Russell Yates! No more breeding for YOU!

:puke:

[Ilsa]

30. How stupid or desparate does a woman have to be to

take up with this guy? Geez, who'd want to be a part of all that baggage?

[BlueIris]

66. Sadly, I meet several of them every single week.

People so delusionally obsessed with "havin' precious little ones" (which they don't seem to think is possible with that all-important MAN, not as a husband or "father," but as a sperm donor/wallet) they would hook up with anyone who had a stable job, was reasonably attractive and seemed like he could stomach hanging around the tots for a couple of hours once a month. Many of them are actively trying to do this. Even though they will acknowledge, ('cause I will presumably understand their messed up "ambitions" as another woman, I guess) that they couldn't care less about the feelings of the man in the situation, beyond "support" as a "provider." All I can say, is, ladies? They're called career goals. Jesus. No, wait, don't make Jesus a career--but by then, they're just blathering on about Baby G.A.P. again.

[Auntie Bush]

91. Some hard up ugly Fundie sex addicted masochistic, suicidal

woman with very very low self esteem.

[Writer]

31. Russell Yates, you are NO MAN.

A man relies upon his self, his efficacy, and his own good judgment. You possess nor strive for any of these qualities. Instead you leech upon the greatest gift God has given to us - procreation - and abuse it. You possess no esteem to stand on your own, so you satiate your aggressive insecurity under the thin claim of reproduction.

No, Russell, you are no man. A man never would place a great responsibility on the back of another and leave her without even the promise of help.

Keep walking away from the damage you've wrought, Russell, and with your dying breath, may you realize your own destructive handiwork with not a minute more of life in you to make peace with your indiscretions. Die in devastation.

And if a woman were to place her trust you? I feel no sorrow for what is to become of her.

Writer.

[Krupskaya]

32. Has he ever, ever expressed any sadness over what happened?

I mean, for crying out loud. A spouse killing my five kids would destroy me. And he says, "I have the freedom now"? How the fuck does he sleep at night?

[meppie-meppie not]

40. with the love of Jesus ;)

;)

[BlueIris]

162. Oh, for fuck's sake.

Did he seriously...why do I have to ask? Why am I surprised?

[Megahurtz]

35. Seriously somebody get this guy fixed quick!!!

He's already thinking of popping out more with another unsuspecting victim!!!

Fuck, they neuter animals why can't they neuter him???

[Tomee450]

37. Why would any woman want

to marry Yates. He was not a good husband IMO.

[gauguin57]

43. Maybe after Bachelor Scott Peterson gives his rose to a special lady,

his runner-up can marry Russell Yates.

Freaking Fundie Trash.

[Elidor]

44. Sounds like a great personals ad for Free Republic

I'd almost go post it myself if I wasn't busy.

[Malikshah]

45. To quote Kate Hepburn as Eleanor of Aquitaine

Upon hearing that Henry wanted an anullment so he could have more sons....


"I think that *that* would be the one thing of which you have enough."

(or something like that) ;0

[0007]

48. He'll have no problem finding a women

[MADem]

49. Is Lorena Bobbitt available???

She could probably handle that guy with not too much trouble....

[Bluebear]

50. hehehehehe

OK that was good.

[LostinVA]

51. Hey! Quit slamming Rusty!

He's into the 'Culture of Life," you know. Procreating, like a good Christian should. Leave the man alone. <sarcasm off/>

[BlueIris]

78. Oh, right, I forgot. BREED AWAY, pscyho! Choose "life"!

Sick bastard.

[Solly Mack]

52. Quick..grab the clorox and douse....

[anarchy1999]

75. Wow, long time since I've seen you around. And yes, Clorox is needed

in many ways. Cleanse.

[BlueIris]

68. Y'all? This thread has renewed my faith in the intelligence of DU.

Thanks so much. I love you. You're MY kind of people.

[Generator]

71. And another damn thing

Why oh why can't he keep his thoughts to himself??

Why do we live in an age of instant media glorification for the most heinous associations?

The media loves death porn. Rusty is death porn by proxy.

Why interview him? Why does he give interviews NOW? He has NO SHAME. Which must mean he really has no sense of decency.

Hid under a rock or go to another country and change your name and live your life. BUT nooo..maybe he can get it on TEE VEE when he marries again!! Puke val puke.

Does anybody left have any SHAME? your wife, asswipe KILLED your five children and is rotting in prison for the rest of her life. You-are talking about your LOVE LIFE!

Clueless moron hoards of dung.

[BlueIris]

74. Damn skippy.

The man is a parasite. DON'T GIVE THE PARASITES ANYMORE AIRTIME.

[LisaL]

179. Actually, her conviction was overturned, so it's very possible

she won't rot in prison for the rest of her life. Now, Mrs. Yates getting out and getting more children-that's a scary thought. Her being mentally ill didn't stop him from impregnating her before.
At least she and Rusty won't get back together, now that they are divorced.

[BlueIris]

189. That IS a scary proposition.

Because despite what I've posted about ole Rusty, Ms. Yates producing more children isn't a good thing, either, in my humble opinion, given how her body and psychology were affected by pregnancy and the stress of child-rearing.

[Piperay]

73. I agree

Yates should be in prison, the thought of him breeding again make me :puke: :puke: :puke:

[BlueIris]

77. He's a tangible metaphor for everything wrong with this world.

Hate him.

[Pachamama]

83. So Rusty- Are you going to stay home with 4 or 5 kids?

Just wondering....

Freedom eh....

Memo to Women who may run into this man in courtship: RUN!

[BlueIris]

86. Seriously. What a sad example of a "human" specimen. n/t

[meppie-meppie not]

94. yes, but he's a great example of human detritus. n/t

[fortyfeetunder]

96. Russell Yates new lovers: beware

This man might be technically inclined but it's obvious he is not marriage material. Sleep with him, date him, but do not marry him. He is socially inept and is clueless.

If you want proof see what happened with his first wife and his reluctance to get her the medical attention she desperately needed.

So if you do decide to get married, get marital counseling and mental counseling now, or else love being barefoot and pregnant...

[BlueIris]

97. It cannot be posted enough: YATES IS HIDEOUS.

I don't think I've ever been more disgusted or offended by a "person" (read=piece of human filth) discussed on this site. Yes, these staements from Yates has infuriated me more than most things * has said. Amazing.

[zann725]

99. As I recall, he wanted enough MALE children for a softball team.

n/t

[meppie-meppie not]

101. unbelievable! hope he switches to golf. n/t

[BlueIris]

102. Respectfully, that's unbelievable to you?

With all of these posts reminding us that the "man" thinks of women as little more than brood mares? Of course Rusty wants some little copies of himself to pass on those "values" to. Okay, I just made myself sick.

[meppie-meppie not]

115. I knew he wanted children before but didn't know he wanted that

many! To me, anything after 3 is "popping them out" but a baseball team? That's a bloody nightmare!!!

[BlueIris]

104. Kick because Russell here, his attitude and intended behaviors

are repulsive. People of the world, don't act like this. Treat your potential partners like HUMAN BEINGS WORTHY OF RESPECT AND LOVE, not putative wombs/sperm manufacturers. Russell Yates, please accept my request to screw off. You are a boil on the ass of society.

[0007]

106. What next? Tom DeLay ready for a new constituency?

[BlueIris]

107. Okay, seriously? I've been waiting for DeLay to praise Yates.

Publicly.

[0007]

108. Not a doubt in my mind! Tom's on a business schedule but

he'll get around to it just wait and see.

[noonwitch]

109. Too bad the courts can't force him to get a vasectomy

I'm sure he'll find some other fundamentalist woman with no self esteem who's willing to have his babies. Let's hope this one isn't a schizophrenic.

[BiggJawn]

111. Run away, ladies!

Rusty Yates is lonesome. He MISSES the sight of a sweet help-mate, barefoot, chained to the stove and diaper pail, popping out them kids one every 10 months like clockwork....

Some young, naive thing will consider hime quite the "catch", I'm sure....

"... So I have to reassess where I’m at, what I have to offer.”

Uh, how about a legacy and track record of spousal abuse? (at the LEAST, lack of support)

[BlueIris]

112. "Young," "naive," brainwashed by whichever parent was like him.

"Men" like Rusty have a special radar they use to scope out those vulnerable, damaged unfortunates. Mark my words, there will be an Andrea #2 by the end of this year. The media will cover that, too. And I will cry.

[Missy Vixen]

167. I'll cry with you

>And I will cry.<

This person should not have any more children. Period. He has shown himself completely uninterested in the work of fatherhood. I raise my glass to the men and fathers of DU, and fathers everywhere who love their children enough to love their children's mother.

:toast:

Julie

[BlueIris]

173. Well, at least I won't be alone.

And I'll be raising a glass to all the overworked mothers of DU who aren't getting enough support from their so-called partners even though it's the freaking 21st Century.

[AngryOldDem]

116. My question is....

...is his new family READY FOR HIM?

This man has no business contemplating ruining even more lives.

[readermostly]

147. Rusty Yates

Couldn't agree with you more. Rusty's life revolves around his wants and desires. To me, he seemed to have little regard for his wife's extreme illness, and that led to this tragedy for their children. I've seen him from time to time on talk shows, and it just makes me sick. I've never understood, even if was a financial decision, how he could have continued living in that house for quite some time afterwards. I find him a cold man that has detached himself from Andrea and their children almost since this happened. Actually, his wants took precedence over Andrea's needs and illness even before then. (OK, maybe I'm just a little harsh, but I don't care for him at all). Since he has been dating, I'm sure that he will find some poor soul to marry him.

[Stephanie]

153. He continued to live in the house?

What sane person would do that? Seriously, who could do it? Could you?

Welcome to DU readermostly! Congrats on your first DU post!

[readermostly]

171. Thank you, Stephanie.

I love Democratic Underground!! You all are so well-informed, and I get more news here than anywhere on TV.

[Yavin4]

131. He Is The Very Model of What Repig Fundies Want All Families To Be

This is their world view. The Yates family is what they want a post-Roe v. Wade America to look like.

[BlueIris]

138. And STILL no endorsement from DeLay? Tom's slacking here.

This is an excellent opportunity for the G.O.P. to remind us all that breeding=bliss.

[BikeWriter]

133. Grrrrrr!

[BlueIris]

139. Still love you all. This thread showcases the best of DU.

Sane, intelligent, woman and female parent respecting posters, I applaud you. ::kiss noise from Iris::

[applegrove]

141. This case screams out for reproductive rights and sexual activity

in high school for girls.. so they can make a control freak at the age of 17 and know how to stay away.

[LisaL]

180. Andrea was 28 years old when she and Rusty got

married. Hardly a young girl.

[BlueIris]

183. To me, miserable situations like this would decline

if all genders were a hell of a lot less obsessed with sex and procreation, and instead placed greater emphasis on caring about and for each other as individuals worthy to each other for reasons other than physical appeal and possible mechanisms to produce families. Am I defending those ridiculous "abstinence-only" sex-education initiatives being pushed by the neo-cons, endorsing abstinence generally or trying to repress people who engage in sex, even lots of it? Fuck no. But if people based their attitudes about sex and having children on their own individual emotional desires, not what society or social institutions like churches or governments pressure them to believe, started viewing their partners as other human beings first, not primarily as sex/breeding opportunities? If young people, particularly women, had sex when and how they wanted to, not because they felt they "should," to be considered normal, to be good partners and good wives? If we placed a hell of a lot less emphasis on sex and the allegedly all-important need to have kids? That would improve the world, and ensure fewer Andrea Yates in it. Ladies? They're called vibrators (and career goals.) Look into that.

[clspector]

146. And why did . . .

R. Yates need to run to the newspaper to share this information? Unless the previous media attention was a big turn on for him and now he wants some more.

This is almost more vomitous -- the fact that he needed to "announce" this as if he were a debutante.

[BlueIris]

156. Oh, I know! It's like he's proud of his past and his perverse hopes

for the future. Russell: THE BREEDING WILL ACTUALLY MAKE YOU MORE HATED. By all of us, and that new litter you don't plan on taking care of.

[Bluebear]

159. Maybe Larry King will have him on AGAIN

to announce his spermatozoic intentions.

[BlueIris]

160. And to solicit applicants.

I did not watch the last interview with Russell Yates, but I confess to having watched the last interview Larry did with a "person" who uses others for her own sick needs--Mary Kay Letournou--and was very disappointed that Larry chose to remain "neutral" about her disgusting "views" (read=pathologies). So, I would not look forward to watching what I'm sure would be Rusty strutting his stuff and basically inviting hopeful future breeding partners to call in and fork over their phone numbers, while Larry only glares at him, grimmacing.

[BlueIris]

174. Still hate him. n/t

[Nobody]

186. I read the website for the quiverfull movement

A previous poster upthread pointed this one out and of course I have a few comments.

First off, this site boggled the mind.

These people don't seem to think very highly of human civilization and human intelligence and wisdom.

The earth can't support the people it has now, why breed as "many as nature will allow"?

People are not allowed to use their own common sense and brains, instead they must throw all caution to the winds and just let things happen as they will. God will provide. God will choose the right number of children for you.

Never mind that too many children will wear out your nipples so you can't breastfeed. (this happened to my grandmother) Never mind that too many children will cause the death of the mother. (leading cause of death of women until the 20th century. Staggering isn't it?)

By the way, these civilization-haters shouldn't act shocked when Andrea Yates killed her kids. She was simply doing what many species of animals do when they're too stressed and too crowded.

[BlueIris]

187. "Civilization haters." I'm stealing that. n/t

[Nobody]

188. Enjoy.

Reread the first couple books of Genesis, which these people love to quote, and see how many references to anti-civilization sentiment you can find.

[BlueIris]

190. I will.

And again: Sick bastards.

[BlueIris]

191. The hate lives on. n/t