AP: Schiavo Receives Communion, Last Rites

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

Schiavo Receives Communion, Last Rites

50 minutes ago

By MIKE SCHNEIDER, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Their hopes fading and legal options exhausted, Terri Schiavo's parents appeared quietly resigned Sunday to watching her die but could claim one Easter victory: The severely brain-damaged woman received a drop of communion wine on her tongue — her only sustenance in nine days — after her husband allowed her to receive the sacrament.

*snip*

Schiavo's husband, who a day earlier denied a request from his wife's parents that she be given communion, granted permission Sunday to offer the sacrament.

The Rev. Thaddeus Malanowski said he gave Schiavo wine but could not give her a fleck of communion bread because her tongue was dry. He also administered the last rites, anointing her with holy oil and giving a blessing. Schiavo last received both sacraments on March 18, just before her feeding tube was removed.

The priest's announcement drew applause and cheers from the crowd, which spent most of the day heckling police and protesting loudly. The noise prompted Schiavo's brother, Bobby Schindler, to come out and ask protesters to tone down their behavior.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

[Borgnine]

1. With all due respect to the family, I'll be relieved when she's gone.

This woman has been a prisoner in her own body for 15 years, and now she's the centerpiece in a freakfest sideshow. She'll be free soon and away from this nuthouse we call Earth.

[DearAbby]

3. RIP Terri....you've earned it

[rocktivity]

32. Terri has been free from her body since 1996 when her brain died

The rest of her body is finally being allowed to follow.

Don't worry about her feeling any pain or being aware of anything; she lost that capacity at least a decade ago.

:headbang:
rocknation

[truthisfreedom]

2. excellent.

[The Magistrate]

4. Thank You For The Notice, My Dear!

It is Beelzebub's bed-time now....

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

5. Me too!

Thanks for the reminder. I'd sit here till daybreak otherwise.

[jmcon007]

6. Protestors are respectful, huh?

DeLay, Frist and the rest of that bunch weren't thinking of Terri when they were grandstanding. That's obvious.
And these obnoxious protestors don't really care about her either. Most are there in the first place because it's their own form of grandstanding (for their friends and neighbors) and they become louder and louder because they're trying to out-moral each other while there. Terri is the farthest thing from their tortured minds.
I'll be happy for Terri when she passes. I'm wondering if DeLay and Co. will have the balls to say, "Well, at least she's in a better place."

[truthisfreedom]

7. nope. they've been instructed by karl to never, ever, ever acknowledge

the dead. just like bush.

[DemBones DemBones]

8. The protestors from Not Dead Yet are there to try to wake up the

American people who don't give a shit that a profoundly disabled woman is being put to death by starvation and dehydration.

They killed the disabled in Nazi Germany, 70,000 of them, and now we're doing it here.

And just like when the Nazis did it, people are in total denial about what's really going on.

[Bark Bark Bark]

10. Who's In Denial?

She. Is. NOT. "Disabled." Not even "profoundly" disabled. The term "brain dead" is bandied about, but even that is incorrect; with her cerebral cortex almost completely atrophied away, she is "brain gone."

Christopher Reeve was "disabled." The part of Terri Schiavo's brain that held her emotions, memories, perception--everything that made her Terri Schiavo--is gone. I don't know if they even have a word for that. But her whole head might as well be cut off, with her spinal cord wired to a car battery, or some artificial device that keeps her inhaling and exhaling. Is THAT human life? It is, in the same sense that the Wendy's chili-finger is human life.

And unless God himself jumps down to her bedside and manifests her a brand-new cerebral cortex, she has NO hope of recovering.

DBDB, you've been around DU for a while, so it's unlikely you're a Freeptroll--but your ignorance of Terri Schiavo's state cannot be incidental; the information has been repeated here FAR too often. It must be deliberate.

Your use of inflammatory rhetoric--comparing doctors (and perhaps everyone in America and here at DU who disagrees with you) to Nazis (for God's sake), describing those of us who've done a little research as "in denial," declaring that Terri is "being put to death" and no one "give(s) a shit"--that's pure Pat Buchanan. (Aside from the swear, it's exactly what he wrote in his latest opinion piece.)

Congratulations. You might want to work on that.

EDIT: I'll also point out that the only reason she's being allowed to die by removing her feeding tube is because swift, painless euthanasia is not an option. And we know why, don't we? I remember your posts on "Million Dollar Baby." That your lot would deny that option to a person paralyzed from the nose down--while not caring whether or not it is allowed for someone with inoperable cancer or other medical conditions--tells us who REALLY "doesn't give a shit."

[Ayesha]

12. assisted suicide for disabled person

"That your lot would deny that option to a person paralyzed from the nose down--while not caring whether or not it is allowed for someone with inoperable cancer or other medical conditions--tells us who REALLY "doesn't give a shit."

Why do you feel that assisted suicide should be an option for someone who is paralyzed but fully mentally aware and not terminally ill? If you support this, then hey let's all give guns to people with depression so they can blow their heads off while we're at it. They are suffering too after all - in fact, my good friend with clinical depression suffers far more than I do with my cerebral palsy. Hey, let's just give a supply of poison pills to every man, woman, and child so they can kill themselves when life gets a little tough!

It is possible to live a full and meaningful life while being paralyzed/seriously physically disabled. It is also possible to live a full and meaningful life with some degree of mental impairment (Down's Syndrome etc.) If a person wants to die in these circumstances it is usually due to *depression* from not yet having adjusted to the changes they have experienced, or societal prejudice, or lack of health care because our government only gives a shit when they can score some political brownie points. What they need then is support, not death. It is a completely different situation from someone who is terminally ill, will only get worse, and has PHYSICAL suffering that cannot be relieved.

[Bark Bark Bark]

31. Hyperbole Much?

There's a hell of a difference between full-body paralysis and "life getting a little tough" or "being depressed."

And of course you ignore the fact that people with depression already have access to guns. And poison. They also have access to help and treatment. They have a choice.

A choice you would deny others who lack the ability to control their destiny.

That's what "they" need: support...and options. In the end, not everyone who is severly disabled is going to want to cope with it for the rest of their lives.

Do you ever stop to think why some people aren't as squeamish about that as you are? Do you ever stop to think what experiences we may have been through that bring us to our conclusions? Or do you, like DemBones, just dismiss us all as Nazis?

[Kerridwyn]

39. Depression and disability

There is a hell of a lot of difference between "life getting a little tough" and being depressed too, thanks. There are people with full-body paralysis who hate their lives, and who lack the ability to control their destinies, and there are those who do not feel that way, who are given the access to the help they need to be in control, even if it's not the kind of control the able-bodied imagine they could cope with.

Not everyone with depression has access to help and treatment; all too often, the help and treatment offered doesn't work. We could all just shoot ourselves or die horrible deaths from poison, sure. But I find the way you refer to depression here both ignorant and offensive.

Since there are many people with full body paralysis who actually enjoy life and want to live, and there are others who are depressed by their condition and want to end it, would you agree that they should be given help and treatment for their depression?

Would you also agree that if that help and treatment doesn't help, all people who are profoundly miserable and want to die should be given access to simple, painless means? Blowing your head off leaves an awful mess for your family, or some other poor sucker, to find and clean up, after all.

[Ayesha]

42. Also

Bark Bark Bark, your assumption that being fully paralyzed would be inherently depressing is in and of itself prejudice against people with disabilities. It is an assumption that our lives are less valued and valuable.

[Bark Bark Bark]

45. Why Don't You Just Call Me A Nazi?

Name me someone who honestly thinks their life got HAPPIER because they were fully paralyzed, and I'll apologize for the litany of names I just muttered under my breath.

God.

You wouldn't be the first person to whip out the "oh you're prejudiced" argument when they have no sensible comeback. Easy, isn't it?

I'm calling for treatment AND the choice to control one's fate. The counterargument so far has been:

(1) Anyone who has been severely disabled, and--even after exhaustive help--still wants to "opt out," just needs more Happy Pills in their prescription, because, gosh, that's just kooky and wrong.

(2) If anyone is allowed the option to euthanize themselves, then a fascist police state will arise to force it upon everyone. (AKA the NotDeadYet credo. Also used to oppose gay marriage, legal abortion, medical marijuana, teaching evolution, and all forms of "tolerance." Hey, there's that coincidental connection to the Randall Terry folks again.)

(3) Everyone who disagrees with (1) and (2) are Nazis and/or bigots. Probably stood next to Jane Fonda, too. And like to chainsaw babies for sport.

You don't know jack shit about me. Not that that's ever given any moron pause.

Christopher Reeve was my hero, and not for his acting career. I wept when he died. I'm SUCH a bigot.

[Ayesha]

47. Why are you singling out disability?

Given that painless suicide pills are not available at Wal-mart, it is not easy for ANY person to kill themselves in a manner that is painless, guaranteed to work, and not horrific for someone to see the aftermath. Therefore, to offer such pills to a disabled person would not be giving them equal opportunity, it would be giving them MORE opportunity.

What makes us more in need of such a pill than say, homosexuals, who go through tremendous suffering in our society? (Before you jump on me here, I'm a lesbian.) If a gay person is miserable about being gay, should we pass them a suicide pill? What about someone who went through horrific abuse as a child and is tortured by the memories? Where does it end? What you are basically arguing is that any person who cannot accept themselves (for whatever reason) and whose depression does not improve after treatment should have the right to off themselves. But who decides what "exhaustive help" is? Most likely, it will be the government. Do you really want them making those kinds of decisions for you or anyone else? I sure as hell do not.

Disability is a natural, normal part of human existence. Between genetic variations, accidents, illnesses, and age, most of us will experience it at some point in our lives. It is one aspect of human diversity, and I do believe that if there were no people with disabilities, our society would be the poorer for it. That is not to say it is something wonderful, but it isn't necessarily awful either. It just IS.

I've known quite a few people who were real jerks prior to being seriously injured or developing health problems, and afterwards they became much more thoughtful and compassionate. I imagine that most of them would say they're happier now, because they live fuller, more authentic lives, and THINK rather than blindly following social norms. Since I became disabled due to medical malpractice at birth, I have no way of knowing for sure what kind of person I would have been, but my dad's side of the family is composed mostly of yuppie Republican suburbanites, and I think having a disability helped me reject that false happiness and strive for a life of more substance.

So yes, there are people who are happier now than before becoming disabled. If you really want me to, I can pose this question on a disabilities board and you can see for yourself.

Oh, just out of curiosity, can you explain why Christopher Reeve was one of your heroes?

BTW, I do not think you're a bigot, and wasn't trying to attack you. I just don't think you really understand the experience of disability, and have some misconceptions about it (as do many people.)

[Bark Bark Bark]

57. "No, You're Not A Nazi--You're Just Ignorant."

Quote: "I've known quite a few people who were real jerks prior to being seriously injured or developing health problems, and afterwards they became much more thoughtful and compassionate. I imagine that most of them would say they're happier now, because they live fuller, more authentic lives, and THINK rather than blindly following social norms... So yes, there are people who are happier now than before becoming disabled."

Quite a few, huh? Yeah...that's wasn't what I asked about. What I wrote was:

"Name me someone who honestly thinks their life got HAPPIER because they were fully paralyzed."

A better wording--one that can't be twisted about easily--would be: name me someone who honestly thinks they are happier in a state of full paralysis than they would be with full mobility.

Were I to use Kerridwyn's sort of arguing tactics, I would now ask you if you think people shouldn't be allowed to legally smash their own spines or amputate their children's limbs in the pursuit of purity, happiness, and self-improvement. But that's bullshit, no matter which side uses it.

Yes, suicide kits aren't available at Wal-Mart. But I can find the information I need to painlessly kill myself with household materials (with a minimum of mess) in a matter of minutes on the Internet.

If I wanted to end my life--but lacked the ability to do it myself--I wouldn't want the person who helped me control my destiny to be threatened with jail (or death at the hands of a kook who fancies he's doing God's will). That's what a living will is about. That's what the Schiavo case is about--though of course the discussion here gets farther from that with each post.

It's all about reframing the argument, isn't it? And that's what I was calling DemBones on: the idiot Nazi comparisons and other gutless crap. Invoke "Nazi" and you win, right?

Re Christopher Reeve: I didn't enjoy his movie roles so much. When he had his accident, I felt no pity for him, because that's the risk you take when you ride an animal. But he took the hand he was dealt--the disability AND the celebrity--and strove to help find solutions for himself and others who have suffered similar circumstances. (If I may be allowed to use the word "suffered" to describe disability. Perhaps I should write "others who have been blessed with joyous, life-affirming massive spinal injury.") I will always admire him for that.

Yet, had he decided not to work to that end--had he lived (or ended) his life as he PLEASED, no matter what the choice--I would not have held that against him.

And I would not have denied him his choice.

It's not something I'm going to discuss, but I--like many--have been involved in a situation not unlike the Schiavo case. It's not DemBones' business. It's not Randall Terry's business. It's not Tom DeLay's business. And it's not NotDeadYet's business.

Who the hell are any of you to call us murderers or Nazis?

[Kerridwyn]

52. Not answering the question

You have not bothered to address any of the points made to you.

"(1) Anyone who has been severely disabled, and--even after exhaustive help--still wants to "opt out," just needs more Happy Pills in their prescription, because, gosh, that's just kooky and wrong."

Again, do you or do you not support voluntary euthanasia for the severely depressed (after exhaustive help), no matter whether or not they are physically disabled?

It's a simple enough question.

[Bark Bark Bark]

55. But It's Not Related To The Discussion

...it's the equivalent of "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

It's also an attempt to equate depression and disability--which, ironically, is what I've been accused of.

[Ayesha]

56. Yes

Severe depression IS a disability. I'm not talking about the people who get down but bounce back with therapy and/or meds, but those who spend years struggling to or unable to work, trying numerous medications and therapies, fighting the urge to commit suicide every day. That kind of depression can be far more debilitating than physical paralysis.

Also, you didn't respond to anything in my post above.

[Kerridwyn]

58. Missing the point again

Thank you; that is exactly the point. Depression IS a disability.

My question is entirely relevant. If you think people with serious physical disabilities should be allowed access to a painless, pleasant death, but people with serious depression shouldn't, you're either being prejudiced against people with physical disabilities or people with depression (depending on whether one thinks being allowed to commit suicide is reasonable or not).

The argument that suicidal depressed people already have the means to do it doesn't work for a number of reasons. Honestly, how much time have you spent reading up on suicide methods? Read Geo Stone's book on the topic? What suicide method would you recommend for people who are so severely depressed that they are unable to manage their own lives, work, do their grocery shopping - and who don't want to endure physical pain, or leave an unpleasant mess for some unfortunate person to find? Oh, and which WILL be fatal, not result in them getting sent off to a psych ward for attempting suicide.

Chloroform on eBay is probably the best bet, so long as you don't have vigilant relatives on the look out for packages labeled as containing dangerous chemicals.

You seem to be saying that people with disabling depression should just go drink bleach or attempt to OD on some OTC painkiller, but people with physical paralysis should be given access to painless means of ending their lives.

So why are you so prejudiced against people disabled by depression?

[Kerridwyn]

59. P.S.

I posted on a disabilities discussion forum asking whether the people there regarded depression as a disability, just to get some more views. So far they've all said yes, absolutely; two have said that they've experienced depression as much more disabling to them than their blindness, and one said the same about depression vs. cerebral palsy.

[Bark Bark Bark]

60. I Don't Play "Philosophy Jenga!"

Wow, depression is a disability...yet I'm a bigot because I suggest people with disabilities can be depressed because of their disability? Wow.

You'd like to keep reframing and reframing the discussion, hoping each new gotcha-style question would work like pulling out a little block until you find the one that brings the stack down. Eventually, you'd be asking me if I believe people with painful hangnails should be executed by the forced ingestion of Drano; were I to say, "no, of course not," you'd scream, "aha!"--then declare my entire argument invalid (no pun intended).

Amusingly, one of you asked me if I would support the right of a clinically-depressed person to kill themselves IF THEY WERE CONSTANTLY AND DEEPLY SUFFERING AND BEYOND THE HELP OF MEDICAL TREATMENT. We went from accusing me of wanting to kill anyone who's having it "a little tough" to asking me if I want to kill people who are in CONSTANT, UNTREATABLE PAIN. (My answer: on a carefully-judged case-by-case basis, IF they wish, I believe they should have that option. What's YOUR alternative? Lobotomy? Jail?)

First of all, I don't care what you believe, and this will be the last time I bother with this silliness here. (You, however, seem very interested in pursuing this until you win the abovementioned game of Philosophy Jenga. DemBones, of course, pulled her usual stunt--which is to throw the inflammatory-language firebomb and run like hell.)

Second, three opinions on a "disabilities discussion forum" do not constitute medical science. Or anything, but three opinions on a discussion forum. (I'm sure I can dig up a thread at Freeperville with AT LEAST three opinions that "prove" anyone who is disabled should be drowned like a bag of cats. And one of them would be quoting Charles Krauthammer. Touche.)

Third: a little challenge. Go here and watch the talk-show clip.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/03/30.html#a2234

Then come back here and tell everyone who's arguing for your side--Catherine Crier or Joe Scarbourough. THIS should be funny.

(Pay attention to the details DemBones left out of her original message here: witnesses to Terri's wishes, Michael Shiavo's actions after his wife's hospitalization, and the number of times independent medical professionals and court judges examined all the evidence and all came down on the same side every time.)

Fourth and finally: If NotDeadYet wants to promote a message that people who are disabled (and/or depressed--although Heaven forfend we should link the two, right???) are capable of full, valuable lives...that's fantastic.

But if NotDeadYet wants to cling to this hysterical "if her bastard wife-beating husband is allowed to murder Terri then the Nazis will come for EVERYONE next!!" message, they're going to slowly dry up and blow away, achieving absolutely nothing but harm.

'Bye.

It's been a waste of time.

[Kerridwyn]

61. Finally, an answer! Thanks!

"We went from accusing me of wanting to kill anyone who's having it "a little tough" to asking me if I want to kill people who are in CONSTANT, UNTREATABLE PAIN. (My answer: on a carefully-judged case-by-case basis, IF they wish, I believe they should have that option. What's YOUR alternative? Lobotomy? Jail?)"

Thank you for finally answering my question. That's all I wanted to know - whether your position was consistant or not. I do not have an "alternative," I've never said no one should be allowed to kill themselves. I just think that if we are going to support making painless and easy suicide available we should not be saying the depressed and paralyzed should be allowed to have it, but the depressed non-paralyzed should not.

As for "your side," you do not even know "what side I am on," I have not made an argument either way concerning Terri Schiavo. Neither have I called you a bigot.

BTW, depression is covered by the ADA. Legally speaking, it is a disability.

[Kerridwyn]

44. Cerebral cortex

I almost hate to post this as I'm sure no one wants to hear it, but lacking a cerebral cortex does not, in fact, always mean "brain gone."

http://flatrock.org.nz/topics/science/is_the_brain_really_necessary.htm

- Research from the 1980s by British neurologist John Lorber.

"Later, a colleague at Sheffield University became aware of a young man with a larger than normal head. He was referred to Lorber even though it had not caused him any difficulty. Although the boy had an IQ of 126 and had a first class honours degree in mathematics, he had "virtually no brain". A noninvasive measurement of radio density known as CAT scan showed the boy's skull was lined with a thin layer of brain cells to a millimeter in thickness. The rest of his skull was filled with cerebrospinal fluid. The young man continues a normal life with the exception of his knowledge that he has no brain."

I am, quite obviously, not saying that this applies to Terri Schiavo. I'm just pointing out that the assumptions we make from the information provided by our favored news source are not always entirely correct.

[gnofg]

15. ready tto be called a freeper.

I gao lambasted again last night.

[The Stranger]

18. Goodbye, credibility.

The reference to Nazi Germany in the case of Schiavo would best be termed pathetic, if only it rose to that level.

[Spazito]

26. What a load of crap

*

[Lindacooks]

37. Do you ever read the reasoned replies to your hyperbole?

Nobody is 'killing the disabled', except for Repukes, who keep cutting medical research funding and Medicaid. Nobody is killing Mrs. Schiavo - they are allowing her body to die, since she has a flat EEG and the courts, many, many, many, many times over, have declared THAT WAS HER WISH.

You are really undercutting support for the disabled when you try to claim that this case has anything to do with disability rights.

[Hekate]

9. Her soul will be released from its earthly prison soon...

... I only hope her families -- parents and husband -- will find release and acceptance as well.

This whole sad affair should have been deeply private. What a shame her parents should have cooperated with -- and been coopted by -- Bush-league forces out for political gain. The Bushies don't give a damn about the sacredness of life except as a political tool, and they don't give a damn about all the sick people in this country whose illnesses are bankrupting their families.

The Rev. Jim Wallis of Sojourner is right: if this administration really believed in the sanctity of life they would not have invaded Iraq and they would not withold funding for health care and social justice issues here at home.

Gentle blessings to the Schindlers and Schiavos, and may Terri rest in peace at last.

Hekate

[Ayesha]

11. Right concern, wrong case

As a person with a disability, I have the same concerns as DemBones - there is a tendency among able-bodied people to think that life with a serious disability isn't worth living, and that means that we must stay vigilant in defending our rights. However, the more I read about THIS case, the more I come to the conclusion that Terri is in a vegetative state and there is no hope for her. ALL of the doctors/nurses who say otherwise are extreme rightwing nutjobs, and thus have little credibility.

That being said, if I were her husband, I'd have let her parents be the guardians years ago when they opposed pulling the tube, rather than go through endless court battles only to find myself Fundie Public Enemy #1. After all, if she isn't aware of anything, and her presence brings them some joy, who is it hurting? In a way I admire him for fighting for what he believes she wanted, but on the other, I think he should have just let it go a long time ago. There are many living people who are suffering because of his crusade, and their feelings matter as much as if not more than Terri's since she can no longer suffer, IMO.

[Hekate]

13. I don't think I could have kept it up for so many years, either

I think I'd've caved a long time ago and returned her to her parents' guardianship. The man has a lot of courage -- but this is too awful.

As for my feelings on disability, in another thread tonight I told of a friend of mine (now passed away) who had MD and was a quadriplegic on a respirator. She was fully engaged in the world around her, and an inspiration to those who knew her. Despite a body as useless as Terri Schiavo's, my friend had quite a good quality of life.

I really believe that the Bushites don't give a damn about the sanctity of life or they'd make sure every man, woman, and child in this country had a healthcare plan as good as the one we all pay for Congress to get.

Hekate

[gnofg]

14. Denying

communion says more about Michael than any other act in this sad story. This is a very controlling person.

[The White Tree]

19. He didn't deny communion. He changed his mind and allowed it.

I agree and had that reaction when I saw that scrolling news on Saturday. It would have been wrong to not allow communion to occur. But he changed his mind and allowed it. Given the pressure that must be on him I would choose to see his initial decision as made more out of the pressure of the situation then anything else.

[gnofg]

24. he had

to be told what to do. His initial reaction is his true thinking. This fellow is very controlling.

[barb162]

35. my thinking on it too.

[gnofg]

41. Barb

Terri is his property and don't you forget it.

[barb162]

43. got it!

[MADem]

49. I disagree with that assessment

See my post below, re: communion. The sacrament requires that the recipient have an awareness when receiving it. It isn't a magic pill.

[rocktivity]

33. Michael most likely denied communion at first

because it could have been used as a legal manuver by the parents. And he's probably changed his mind because Terri has now reached the point of no return.

:headbang:
rocknation

[scavok]

22. I suspect he had to

cover all the bases with his lawyer before allowing it to happen. There has been a lot of talk about using this communion as a justification to reinsert the tube. His initial refusal was probably motivated by needing to insure against that possibility.

[Spangle]

25. She just had it on March 18

Doesn't sound like he is a "very controlling person." Sounds like a PR stunt and you fell for it "hook line and sinker."

[barb162]

36. I think she had last rites on 3/18; don't know about communion also

on 3/18

[thinkingwoman]

16. brain dead is not a serious disability...

it's being dead. A liquified brain is NOT a disability. It's an indication of death. Terri Schiavo is an animated corpse.

NOBODY has said that seriously disabled people don't live worthwhile lives.

I am getting sick and tired of the utter bullshit being spewed by the people I thought were the thinkers in this society.

This is NOT a case about the rights of the disabled. This is a case about the rights of ALL PEOPLE to determine their own fate, to make their own medical decisions.

Furthermore, I want to address the whole "let her parents have her, what's the harm?" nonsense.

I would rather be cut up alive and scattered to wild dogs than be turned over to my parents who have sought to control my life since I was born! I have a loving husband now, but even my ex-husband would be preferable as a decision maker for me than my parents. Perhaps the same is true for Terri Schiavo. Maybe the reason Michael Schiavo fights so hard for her is because she once told him to never ever let them control her life again.

We don't know. But what is obvious is that Michael Schiavo has consistently fought for her in spite of overwhelming pressure from people who don't even know them. The fact that it would have been easier for him to wash his hands of the whole mess convinces me that he's been telling the truth about her wishes all along.

[Kerridwyn]

40. seriously disabled people and worthwhile lives

"NOBODY has said that seriously disabled people don't live worthwhile lives."

Unfortunately some people in the right-to-die movement do say that. That's why the disability rights people are so often in opposition to the right-to-die movement.

I think the Not Dead Yet people are fools if they really believe the right-wingers give a damn about them, when at the same time as protesting for Terri Schiavo they are doing their damnest to scalp the ADA and cut funding for just about every service disabled people use. Indeed, years ago when the disability rights movement were first writing about the case, Michael Shiavo had only recently stopped rehab therapy (against medical recommendation, which is why I think he's no angel by a long way), and her cerebral cortex had not degenerated to this degree - but where were the Republicans then, where was the right wing protest for a woman who WAS, at that time, profoundly disabled? As invisible as the progressive/liberal protest.

[thinkingwoman]

54. But not in this case

That simply is not an issue that has been raised in relation to this case.

IMHO, the Not Dead folks are hurting themselves by inserting themselves into this case. But, that is only my opinion.

[LiberalFighter]

20. It shouldn't be a matter of whether someone is disabled and it isn't

Some are trying to equate Terri's status as being disabled. There is a vast difference between someone in Terri's state and a disabled person in a wheelchair that has limited physical mobility unable to speak but still able to communicate through other means.

As for the medical personnel... I would say that at least two of them are not so much as rightwing nutjobs as much as they are either frauds or are vindictive because of being fired. Dr William Hammesfahr -Florida neurologist was disciplined and fined by the state and was the only appointed of 5 making the claim that Terri could recover. The Schindlers appointed a doctor that had been disciplined with questionable practices? The nurse making wild claims was fired by the hospice.

[Spangle]

28. Respect and Love for Terri

If I was in Terri's situation, I wouldn't want my body used this way. He seems to be the only one concerned with Terri and what SHE wants. I limited my "after death" organ donation because I didn't want my WHOLE body still around. Some of the organs being useful, that is fine. But I want my body GONE.

[MADem]

48. I guess your question might depend upon the religious views

...of the family members grappling with the issue. Where is her soul, if there exists such a thing? Between heaven and earth? Where is her spirit? If these things, the soul and spirit, exist, then are they being unfairly constrained because of the forced feeding of a dead body? Would she want that? Does that cause pain of a different sort, a sort that we cannot yet imagine?

I think what Michael Schiavo is doing is probably the HARDEST thing he has ever done in his life. I don't think he likes his role at all, and if he could find a way around it that would not compromise his vow to her, I think he would. It isn't about him, it isn't about the parents, it is about a promise to his wife.

The whole religion business I can take or leave, but I admire people who keep promises.

And tangential to the thread topic, the whole business about the communion is rather odd, wrong, incorrect, too--that, in and of itself, is a MAJOR sop to the parents (who are clearly unsophisticated Catholics who do not understand communion, the church policy on cremation, etc., and will do/say ANYTHING to raise a stink and keep this story front-and-center in the media), and probably way too over the top theologically speaking. There must be AWARENESS when you take the sacrament--it isn't a magic pill, given passively, it is a sacrament that requires knowing, understanding, consent. She doesn't have that capability, never mind not being able to swallow. It's why Catholic little kids have to take classes prior to receiving First Communion...it ain't a free ride. A first year seminary student in the Catholic faith can tell us this.

I'm just hoping it will end soon. Someone down there in FL is bound to do something hugely STUPID if it doesn't...

[hexola]

17. Why dont they bring in Benny Hinn....?

~

[LiberalFighter]

21. Or even Pat Robertson

[scavok]

23. or Robert Tilton

I've wondered that myself. The answer is obvious.

These fakers wouldn't Schaivo with a ten foot pole.

[alarcojon]

27. On a related note....

self-described psychic John Edward claimed on Fox and Friends that "she's clear on what's going -- and I can tell you that she's definitely clear on what's happening now around her."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200503250006

Same guy who wanted to do a show where he "contacted" the recently deceased from the 9/11 attacks.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

29. As Jon Stewart noted about John Edward

he didn't even know his own show was going to be cancelled. How I do love Mr. Stewart.

[rocktivity]

34. LOL! Just like Miss Cleo didn't know she was going to get indicted

She and John Edward ought to sue themselves for malpractice!

:headbang:
rocknation

[Ayesha]

38. Note that he speaks to the DEAD

Notwithstanding the fact that he's a fraud, if he speaks to the dead and reached her, that means she's no longer in that shell of a body. If he was going on the show to support the Schindlers, he did just the opposite!

[chickenscratching]

51. check out the super duper

john edward thread!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1690575

[truth2power]

30. "The priest's announcement drew applause and cheers from the crowd"

Aren't these the same people who think Catholics aren't real Christians???

Talk about expediency...!

edit for typo. Stupid keyboard...too many crumbs in the keys.

[Dark]

46. I think your link goes to the wrong page.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

By MIKE SCHNEIDER, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Described by her father as weak and emaciated, Terri Schiavo clung to life Monday, as police stepped up security outside her hospice room and demonstrators prayed for last-minute government intervention in her case.


Supporters of prolonging the severely brain-damaged woman's life carried their protests to the White House and Congress, while her father repeated his plea that she be kept alive.


"She's still communicating, she's still responding. She's emaciated, but she's responsive," Bob Schindler told reporters after a morning visit with his daughter, saying that she showed facial expressions when he hugged and kissed her. "Don't give up on her. We haven't given up on her, and she hasn't given up on us."


Schiavo, 41, was in her 11th day without the feeding tube that sustained her for 15 years. Her parents pressed again for President Bush, Congress and the president's brother Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene to have the tube reinserted, and a small group of supporters protested outside the White House gates.

[GoldenOldie]

50. Cheering Protest Crowds Outside the Hospice

This proves to me that these religious fundamentalists care little for Terri or any of the other dying patients within this hospice. It was reported yesterday that a young woman was called by the hospice that her grandfather was ready to let go and that she should come immediately if she wanted to say her goodbys. The young lady rushed to the hospice in her pajama's only to be held back by the crowd and the security before the hospice personnel could rescue her from the protestors and get her into the hospice. The hospice informed her that her grandfather had died moments before she entered the buidling.

The religious fundamentalists have little care or respect for the other patients or their families within this hospice who are going through the final stages of life, nor the life or death of Terri. Their only goal is to strengthen their hold on this administration. Terry Randall has again come out of his hole to lead the mob and spout his rhetoric of hate and deviceness.

The religious fundamentalists have little care or respect for the school which is directly across from the hospice and it has been reported that due to all the vans and the equipment of the media and the throngs of protestor's the children are unable to get through to attend school and are being temporarily attending other schools. The citizens within the neighborhood of the hospice are having problems entering their own homes.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

53. Yahoo and AP both changed the link - here's new link to original story

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4896147,00.html

I didn't know they did that. Original headline is still on Google but with revised story at most links. :wtf: