"Terri Shiavo's Parents Heading Back to Fed Court -MSNBC -Edited & updated

[Heddi]

"Terri Shiavo's Parents Heading Back to Fed Court -- Breaking MSNBC"

right now---no link, no further details. Just saw it on MSNBC.

hope not a dupe. Shall search for link

This isn't saying the same thing that they're saying on MSNBC. Shall post the Yahoo link but keep the headline the same as the original


On Edit and changed headline:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&sid=84439559

LEARWATER, Fla. - A state judge and the U.S. Supreme Court (news - web sites) refused Thursday to intervene in the case of Terri Schiavo, leaving the brain-damaged woman's parents with only the slimmest hopes in their fight to keep her alive.

Schiavo's husband, Michael, had urged the high court not to intervene, saying her case has been endlessly litigated and state courts have agreed with him that she would not want to live in her current condition.

The appeal by her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, was part of a rush of legal activity in the unprecedented right-to-die struggle. They have frantically tried to reconnect the tube because they deny Michael Schiavo's arguments that she has no hope for recovery.
---

SECOND EDIT

MSNBC Tagline 12pm PST

"Federal Judge Calls hearing for 6pm ET to consider request"

Federal judge will hear arguments from both sides re: feeding tube reinserted.

Michael has until 5pm to file his paperwork.


---
THIRD EDIT

MSNBC 12:17 PST

"Federal Judge Orders New Schiavo Hearing at 6pm EST" (tagline)

per reporter:

Judge James Whittimore (sp?) having hearing at 6pm today to hear both sides

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. They are going to get SO shut down n/t

[bluestateguy]

2. I thought it was our side that filed all the frivilous lawsuits

These people need to be put to a stop.

A court order barring them from filing anymore motions.

What was it they all said in December of 2000?

YOU LOST. GET OVER IT

[LiberalinNC]

3. Yeah I heard that too on CNN - they are accusing Michael Schiavo

of abuse. No Proof!

[fertilizeonarbusto]

7. I hope he sues their asses for slander

I've had enough of those two selfish f*cks. If that was my child or my parent there is no way I would disrespect their wishes.

[LiberalinNC]

9. If anything, he has proven to me, and probably many other Americans

what class he has...the in-laws are classless, disrespectful, selfish fucks!

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. No just that

there is no way I could plaster their image in such a horrid state all over the media. That is not how I would want me or anyone else I loved to be seen by the whole friggin world.

[Tinoire]

64. Abuse, strangulation, what is the truth here?

Village Voice, not a right-wing rag by ANY means, has an article about signs of abuse.

I really feel there's more to this story than meets our eye.

When I get home tonight, I'll try to find the information on strangulation marks around her neck the night she was admitted.

The more I read about this story, the sicker I get, the more distrustful I get. I don't like seeing this get so political especilly knowing the HYPOCRISY of this administration when it comes to any respect for human life.

I don't know where the truth is because the spin from the Left is as bad as the spin from the right but damn, this story does not add up right.

===

(snip)

Dr. Baden then addressed the 1991 bone-scan report on Terri Schiavo, which was completed on March 5 of that year by Dr. W. Campbell Walker in order to "evaluate for trauma" that may have been caused by a suspected "closed head injury." In the report, Walker wrote:

"This patient has a history of trauma. The presumption is that the other multiple areas of trauma also relate to previous trauma." (Emphasis added).

Here we get to what focused Dr. Baden's attention. On cnsnews.com, Jeff Johnson reported, "Walker listed apparent injuries to the ribs, thoracic vertebrae, both sacroiliac joints, both ankles and both knees."

In his interview with Greta Van Susteren, Dr. Baden noted "that the bone scan describes her having a head injury . . . and head injury can lead to the 'vegetative state' that Mrs. Schiavo is in now."

But, Baden continued, the bone scan "does show evidence that there are other injuries, other bone fractures that are in a healing stage (in 1991)."

Those injuries could have happened, Baden continued, from "some kind of trauma. The trauma could be from an auto accident, the trauma could be from a fall, or the trauma could be from some kind of beating that she obtained from somebody somewhere. It's something that should have been investigated in 1991 . . . and maybe (it was) by police at that time." (Emphasis added).

(snip)

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0347,hentoff,48738,6.html

New York forensic pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden. Former chief medical examiner for the city of New York and co-director of the Medicolegal Investigation Unit of the New York State Police.

[daleo]

71. And yet the hospital didn't bother pursuing this.

Instead, they paid a $1 million damage suit (for not diagnosing bulimia, which depleted potassium), when they could have saved themselves all that money, and helped convict a murderer to boot. I suppose they must have been in on it. I guess the other dozen or so judges were too.

If she has a history of trauma, it might even be from her parents, during childhood. They better be careful of making insubstantial accusations or they might come under scrutiny too.

On edit - if there was really any basis to these claims, don't you think Jeb Bush would have had the D.A.'s office prosecuting long before now, and would have spared no expense (like the Starr travesty)? This would be a Godsend for him - save her and kill a murderer with one stroke. The fact that this hasn't happened indicates, to me, that there is no basis to these allegations.

[Tinoire]

88. The first Director of the hospital had problems with this

and had problems with the fact that Michael Schiavo was unwilling to work with them on getting his wife care.

It's amazing to watch Democrats be just as tenacious as Republicans when it comes to picking which facts suit our political argument, digging heels in and refusing to examine any other possibilities.

[daleo]

92. I have read up a fair bit.

It is true people can get wedded to a particular position, and I am not immune to that. But, I think my comment about Jeb Bush is still pertinent - if there was really any legal foundation to the attempted murder allegations the state of Florida would have been all over it like a dog with a bone. And it would be attempted murder, as the fully developed argument is that he strangled her, thus causing her oxygen deprivation and brain damage.

Of course, even if Micheal Schiavo had murdered his wife, it wouldn't alter her medical situation, so the question of the quality of her life, and her mental functioning (and therefore the feeding tube) would be the same as before. It would be an odd sort of legal reasoning that would allow a tube to be removed if the cause of brain damage was an accident, but not allow it to be removed if it was attempted murder. In fact, it would have the ironic effect of precluding a murder charge, unless the state was to argue that she was actually brain dead. In which case the feeding tube should be removed.

So, I think this is a red herring as far as the feeding tube goes. But, if there is any real foundation to the charges they could be investigated and prosecuted separately.

[Tinoire]

94. Well you can be sure I have no love for Jeb or any of the other snakes

using this case to inflame, divide and conquer.

I hate being ANYwhere near them and truly it distresses me that I can't see Schiavo as a good man- it would make this a lot easier on me... I just feel immensely for her parents and question the purity of his intentions.

[Tansy_Gold]

98. It might help if you question

the purity of the parents' claims.

Just a suggestion.

[Tinoire]

104. Why is Michael Schiavo such a holy cow? Maybe people should start

questioning the purity of a man who received $2.25 Million during the second half of 1992, was shopping for homes with the first girlfriend as early as 1991, moved in with his second girlfriend in 1993 and then "suddenly" remembered, after going after that money, that Terri wouldn't have wanted to live. Mighty smack pat convenient.

Note the interesting timelines from the "loving husband" demanding money to care for his poor wife while at the same time shopping for a new home with the girlfriend. 1991 he had already moved in with the first girlfriend, put his wife's cats to sleep, and refashioned her wedding ring into a ring for himself.

Why is DU so intent on questioning the purity of the parents efforts to get care for their daughter while falling in blind adoration of a man I'm seeing more and more as a scum bag. The fact that he's in a fight with Bush is not enough. How about we start being a little objective and start quesioning the purity of his intentions also?

The parents have always been consistent and clear "Care for our daughter". Schiavo - can you really say that for him?

===
Cindy Shook, Michael's ex-girlfriend, testified that when she asked Michael what Terri's wishes were, he stated, "How the hell should I know. We never spoke about this, my God I was only 25 years old. How the hell should I know? We were young. We never spoke of this."

Still looking for a reputable source for this quote supposedly from her testimony. Siding with Schiavo just because he's against Bush, is just as repulsive as siding with OJ because he was Black.

[girl gone mad]

107. Where are you getting this information about Michael from?

Are you aware that Michael lived with Terri's parents for several years after her heart attack? The parents encouraged him to get a girlfriend. He even brought her home to them for approval.

Their troubles only began after Michael was awarded the $300,000 for himself and wouldn't split it with the parents, aws they felt he had promised them.

What you have posted sounds like nothing more than false rumors and innuendo.

And, as another poster stated, cns is not a trustworthy source.

[LiberalFighter]

79. cnsnews.com is not a legitimate news agency

[Tinoire]

89. Link is to the Village Voice. Where are you seeing CNS? n/t

[LiberalFighter]

90. 3rd paragraph after (snip)

[Tinoire]

102. Here's the actual deposition and results of the trauma scan

Why would the Village voice mentioning that CNS quoted that make the information tainted?

If this woman was truly abused, I hope DU will care and understand the parents' frustration and anger. There are things that just don't add up correctly...

Here is the deposition they referenced, that of Dr. Walker, a board-certified radiologist at Manatee Memorial Hospital. Dr. Walker is the doctor that prepared the bone-scan report from the image of Terri Schiavo taken on March 5, 1991 when she was sent to get the scan.




Here is from his deposition...

Q What is a total-body bone scan used for typically?

A It's to look for abnormalities of the bone, whether they -- if they would be recent abnormalities.

Q Recent --

A Recent.

Q -- abnormalities?

A Correct.

Q Is it also a technique to diagnose osteoporosis?

A No.

(snip)


Q Okay. At the top right under the date appear the words "Bone Scan, Indication: Evaluate for trauma."
A Correct.
Q What does that line indicate?
A Well, in the best of all possible worlds when we are asked to produce an imaging study, there's a question that's been asked for which we are being asked to provide an answer. And in medicine there are many, many different questions that can be asked, and the examinations are tailored to answer those questions. And the report we want to tailor to bring up those possibilities which would most likely relate to the question that's being asked. So if somebody comes in with a history that says "closed head injury," belongs to Dr. Carnahan, for example, who's a known rehab doc, and the indication that was given to us is "evaluate for trauma," then our mind-set is to look for those things that are most likely related to trauma and to possibly give some additional possibilities if we don't see something that fits what we expect.

(snip)

Q And the next sentence, "There are an extensive number of focal abnormal areas of nuclide accumulation of intense type." What does that mean?

A Well, that means that there are a lot of areas that look black on the images because lots of that radioactive decaying material was happening at those points and was being recorded by the imaging system.

Q Okay. "These include multiple bilateral ribs." What would that mean to you?

A Well, you know, there's left ribs and right ribs. And that would mean that more than two ribs on each side were involved.

Q Would it necessarily mean that the first rib, left and right, as opposed to the first rib on the left side and say the fifth rib on the right side?
A No. There wouldn't be any meaning of that nature. Typically if it's one or two ribs, we'll actually specify, you know, rib approximately the second on the left. If you have large numbers of areas of activity, then it's superfluous to label each one in the report. And we would say "multiple."
Q And by "bilateral," you mean on each side of the sternum?
A It would be, yes, on each side of the body's midline.
Q Right. What does the word costovertebral mean?
A That's where the posterior part of the rib joins the spine. The rib on each side comes out from the spine and joins the spine by an articulated joint. And so that refers to where the ribs butt
against the spinal vertebral bodies.
Q "Several of the thoracic vertebral bodies, the L1 vertebral body, both sacroiliac joints." These are all areas that were abnormal on the scan?
A That's what this indicates, yes.

(snip)

Q Would you draw any conclusions from that how old the ossification was?

A You could say that it wasn't real old, because typically, as we mentioned, the bone is a dynamic structure, and it's constantly being remodeled normally. So the body tends to take away extra bone eventually to remodel it to look like normal bone. So typically old bone injuries are remodeled so that eventually they may almost disappear, particularly in young people. In the very young, a fracture you won't even see in three or four years, it will be totally erased.

(snip)

Q Okay. Is there any way for you to say from looking at this report when any of these occurrences took place that caused the abnormality to appear on the bone scan?

A I can only say that if they were traumatic that they probably occurred within 18 months.

(snip)

Q Is it possible that the abnormalities that you noted on the right femoral diaphysis and metaphysis could have occurred if the patient was standing and suffered a cardiac arrest and fell to the floor?

A Probably not. That wouldn't be a typical mechanism of injury that would cause a periosteal bruise. Typically you need a direct blow of some kind. I suppose one could speculate that she fell on a piece of furniture, that that could produce that injury. But just typically falling on the floor would not do that.



http://www.hospicepatients.org/dr-walker-t-schiavo-bone-scan-deposition.txt

[Mr_Spock]

103. "I suppose one could speculate that she fell on a piece of furniture,"

"that that could produce that injury. But just typically falling on the floor would not do that."

So, is there something we are to discern from this report? Or are we supposed to speculate? With all the opportunity to corroborate this through investigation, should we make a decision based on just this information?

[Tinoire]

106. You'll have to think about it long and hard.

Sorry. I can't connect dots for you. If you care, you'll need to research with an open mind, weigh and THINK.

How strange. I put exactly one sentence in there that was from the examination with Schiavo's attorney where he was trying desperately to reduce the damage of Walker's testimony and that's the one you cherry-picked.

One can speculate that women can get two black eyes by walking into a door too you know.

Whence the need to declare Michael Schiavo such a saintly loving caring husband without questioning anything? Is our agenda in such desperate trouble that we don't even care that a woman may have been abused, put in that state by her husband who owns her for life or death?

What absolute gall we have to talk about how backwards it is that Muslim men "own" their women.

[girl gone mad]

110. You are accusing Schiavo of spousal abuse,

an accusation that the parents didn't even bring up until the 2002 appeal, and one that was promptly thrown out of court.


As to why Michael is considered a saintly, loving husband, perhaps it has something to do with the statement that Terri's mother made about Michael during the malpractice trial.

"He's there every day," she said. "He is loving, caring. I don't know of any young boy that would be as attentive. ... He's just been unbelievable. And I know without him there is no way I could have survived all this."

[Star]

95. Report from GAL

This is the report from the Guardian Ad Litem that Jebbie appointed in 2003.

Although it doesn't answer all of the questions that have been raised, it does answer many of them.

If you're interested in this case, this is a good report to read.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/WolfsonReport.pdf

[girl gone mad]

105. Big problems with that theory.

I've heard Michael beat or strangled her nearly to death and that he wants her to die to cover up his abuse. What really happened?

I do not know this family and will not comment on whether any abuse occurred. I can, however, look to the case's history and point out some items that might be relevant to anyone considering this issue.

First, "Terri's Law" required the chief judge of the local circuit court to appoint a guardian ad litem (GAL) to examine Terri's case and advise the Governor. The chief judge appointed Dr. Jay Wolfson from the University of South Florida. Dr. Wolfson's December 2003 report to Governor Bush included this bit of factual history:

The cause of the cardiac arrest was adduced to a dramatically reduced potassium level in Theresa's body. Sodium and potassium maintain a vital, chemical balance in the human body that helps define the electrolyte levels. The cause of the imbalance was not clearly identified, but may be linked, in theory, to her drinking 10-15 glasses of iced tea each day. While no formal proof emerged, the medical records note that the combination of aggressive weight loss, diet control and excessive hydration raised questions about Theresa from Bulimia, an eating disorder, more common among women than men, in which purging through vomiting, laxatives and other methods of diet control become obsessive.

Also relevant to questions about the cause of Terri's collapse is the lawsuit that Michael brought on Terri's behalf against Terri's doctors. The premise of that early 1990s lawsuit was that the doctors committed malpractice by failing to diagnose Terri's bulimia and that her bulimia led to her cardiac arrest. The case was tried to a jury, which ruled in Michael's favor, finding that Terri had bulimia, that her bulimia caused her cardiac arrest, and that the doctors were negligent in failing to diagnose the situation. The verdict was appealed, and before the appellate court could rule, the parties settled, with Michael recovering approximately $750,000 for Terri and $300,000 for himself.

After this case gained national attention in 2003, Gary Fox, the lawyer who represented Terri and Michael in that suit, wrote a stirring column concerning Terri's bulimia and how the tragic effects of that disease have been lost in the hoopla surrounding this case. The St. Pete Times still has that column online, and you can read it here.

The significance of the medical malpractice lawsuit can be seen in a few ways. A jury agreed that bulimia caused Terri's collapse. The defendants were her doctors -- one might think that they, of all people, would have been able to show that Terri had been beaten or strangled if that was what had occurred. Also, to believe that Michael caused Terri's collapse by beating her is to believe that Michael initiated a lawsuit against someone else for causing her collapse, opening the whole matter to serious inquiry and greatly increasing the risk that someone would discover his role.

Finally, I am not aware that anyone -- not the paramedics, doctors, nurses, family members, friends, or anyone else -- who saw Terri in the hours, weeks, and months after her collapse ever suggested at the time that Terri had been beaten or strangled.

As I said above, I am not commenting on whether any abuse actually occurred. I don't know.

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html#qanda

[Emillereid]

4. After the Supreme Court, what other court can they go to?

[sonicx]

8. God's Court?

:crazy:

[librechik]

87. we're all praying for God to weigh in on this n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

41. Oh, that's not a problem. And in the meantime, the press coverage has

been just great for them. Lots of coverage of neocons bravely fighting for life while the REAL stories are buried or blacked out completely if they are embarrassing to the Administration.

They'll keep coming up with new test cases -- which is all poor Terri's dead but breathing body has ever been to them -- and they'll keep going back to courts with them. Their pockets are deep and can continue to pay for litigation because this is all sponsored by the right-to-life RW fundies (one goal of this travesty is to destroy reproductive rights) and the neocon proponents of fascism. And new blivet**-appointed judges will be coming into the sytem -- and if they succeed in outlawing fillibustering, they will be the very worse fascist sympathizers you can imagine.

They'll keep pushing, and in their view even THAT has great benefits - just listen to the Big Brother Press prattling on about the crusading fight for life. Heroic Jebbie is striding to the rescue from the probably-abusive (but don't ask for proof, that's so boring) husband. Great coverage, great lions & circuses for the RW fundies.

In fact, judging by how this one case has totally taken over even a progressive bastion like DU, distracting from major news stories that are continuing to happen in the real world, the publicity campaign has been successful indeed! There are many very important stories that are embarrassing to the administration but totally invisible.. For example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3316529
Title: "Secret US plan to derail European fight against illegal rainforest logging'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1674886#1683649
Title: "Comptroller General: current fiscal policy is unsustainable"

and many others:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3331728
Title: "List Some Non-Shiavo Stories That Are Important Here:"

[KamaAina]

73. The People's Court?

Where's Judge Wapner when you really need him? :-)

[saigon68]

Where there's respiration there's hope I guess

Too bad there isn't a "Brain Wave" to go along with it.

[Connie_Corleone]

5. Dear Gawd!! Stop this nonsense!!

[Heddi]

6. Can't find a link on any news service

But Allison whoever was just on MSNBC with a "BREAKING NEWS" and the tagline was "Shiavo's Parents Head Back To Federal Court".

Please don't lock this :) I'm still looking for a link--hopefully something will be up shortly

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. there you go

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/ap/20050324/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman&sid=84439559

[Heddi]

18. THANK YOU

Smooch

[Massachusetts]

10. The only people who benefit by this mess

are the SUCK ASS Newsies who go for the ratings over the content of a story. Please keep this all in perspective and treat it no more than what it is, a tragic comic side show.

[skip fox]

25. I wich that was the case, but I think it's a positive issue for

Republicans and right-to-lifers. They'll either have a martyr or (if she is "saved" and lives) as woman in recovery--though they'll keep her under wraps and we'll just get little announcements about haw she was saying things (that no one else can hear) about how grateful to God and those who saved her.

At any rate, it's hard to see this as anything but a lose-lose situation for Democrats.

That's my political analysis. Humanly, I feel like hell for so many involved, esp. Terry being strung along.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

11. It's called the LAW, you pathetic christofascists You lost - get over it.

It's time for these pathetic parents, who care more to protect themselves from grief, to GIVE IT UP. Assign these folks a counselor that IS NOT a right-to-lifer.

JB

[HockeyMom]

29. A mother

I could not do this to my cat let alone my daughter; become some kind of painted puppet to be broadcast in the homes of millions of people. Where is Teri's DIGNITY? I shudder every time I see those tapes. How could a parent do that to their child in that condition for the world to see? The parents need some very serious counseling.

They say she gives them joy. Well, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler, where is TERI's joy? The purpose of her existence is not to give YOU joy. It is HER life, not YOURS. Bringing a child into this world means at some point in time letting them go, figuratively, and sometimes even, literally.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

77. BINGO. This is all about selfishness on the parent's part.

They have been in denial for so long that reality no longer exists.

JB

[Fleshdancer]

12. Their lawyers are killing me

I know we have some lawyers on DU so please answer this question: what do you make of Terry Shiavo's parents' lawyers who keep doing this at this point? Shouldn't the lawyers give these people an honest assessment of the situation or should they just keep going through with this because the parents pay them to do it?

I hate the idea that anyone could be profiting from this circus...politically or financially.

[Bridget Burke]

21. Legal expenses are being paid...

By some rich & powerful Right Wingers. (There was a thread among the many with details.)

[mountainvue]

97. Love to read that...

Do you have a link?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

45. This lawyer's opinion ...........

........ of those lawyers representing the Schindlers.

If they believe in what they're doing, I can't argue with the idea of their mounting a vigorous assault on the current legal system. That's what we do - we're hired guns, and that's what we're trained to do.

That said, those fuckers are the most incompetent and whorish bunch of asswipes I've ever seen.

Just one lawyer's opinion.

[Jacobin]

91. At some point, Rule 11 will apply

I think that point has long since been passed, even under these circumstances

[OldLeftieLawyer]

96. I agree, but they'll get away with it.

No one will touch this whole mess. Just let it go away.

But the behavior here has been outrageous.

[ronnykmarshall]

72. They are milking them for every penny.

Which of course will come from the upcoming book and movie deals.

[Mz Pip]

13. To do what???

I am seriously doubting the sanity of these people.

They have no case. No case. It's over. It was over years ago but they just refused to see it.

I can't believe this is how they want to remember their daughter - a poor shell, being used by the likes of Randall Terry and his talibornagain army.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[AlCzervik]

20. They need to let her go period.

I understand thats hard but they want her alive because they can't let go, they need to think about her.

[Mr_Spock]

14. Can't they throw them in jail for frivolous law suits or insanity

or something - geez, soldiers die daily but the country goes on - Terri died 15 years ago and we have to stop everything while we watch these people self-destruct in front of our eyes?

[Heddi]

15. MSNBC tagline on now 12pm PST

"Federal Judge Calls hearing for 6pm ET to consider request"

Federal judge will hear arguments from both sides re: feeding tube reinserted.

Michael has until 5pm to file his paperwork.

[napi21]

17. Well, I heard Terri 's condition is weakening. That will stop the

filings. I detest the people who continue this because I would HATE it if this was ME! I don't know if there is such a think as being able to haunt people after you die, but I told my husbnad if he ever did anything like this, I would haunt him till the day he died!

Sorry to say, the only thing that is going to put a stop to all of this is Terri's death.

[jmowreader]

93. That won't even put a stop to it

Look what they did to Bill Clinton after Bush's 2001 installation ceremony.

A reasonable person would have thought, "he's gone, their guy is in, all this shit will stop." No! If anything it's intensified. Bush is STILL blaming all his fuckups on the "previous administration." Fucker's been installed two times, and he's still blaming Clinton for everything that's gone wrong since January 2001.

They'll castigate Michael Schiavo--hell, attempt to convict him on first-degree murder charges--until HE dies. They'll go after the few Democrats who voted against Terri's Law. They'll lambaste every one of the 20 judges who ruled against the Schindlers. You'll hear Terri, Terri, Terri 24/7...that is, until the electorate decides it's sick of this shit and puts 67 Democrats in the Senate (IOW, exactly enough Democrats to send Shrub back to Connecticut) and a majority in the House in 2006.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Ok so we will contniue this circus

the problem is OUR rights to medical privacy hand in the balance as well, if these fascists manage to win somehow

[cry baby]

22. I hope we here at DU will not stoop so low as to gloat, there is a tragedy

happening. It's not a competition, everyone loses here. Look inside yourselves - don't continue to make this a political issue like the repubs.

[Heddi]

24. I hope you're not saying I'm gloating?

I just posted a news story I heard on MSNBC.

No gloat from me

[cry baby]

27. Certainly not, you are just posting the story.

I hate to see the posters on here that tell the parents that they lost and to get over it. Their hearts are breaking and I am sad for them and her husband, and certainly Terri.

But it is a free country (for now) and I guess they can say what they feel.

[justsomegirl]

35. They need therapy, not more lawsuits

Maybe the freepers should be paying for therapy for the family to cope with the loss, instead of tying up the courts with this.

[cry baby]

38. You are right and I hope they do get some therapy. But unfortunately

I think the freeps will soon move on and leave the parents alone in their grief.

[ElectroPrincess]

68. No disrespect, but if you want your country back, we ALL must toughen up

No figurative punches should be pulled. Dammit, the media is playing these EXTRA-ordinary cases where the brains are NOT in the same state of degradation as Shiavo's cerebral cortex.

We can depend on the Corporate Media to BLUR all the damn lines.

I'm so sick of our USA PRAVDA.

If the fundies play this out, I think more and more conservatives will take a hike away from the Neo-Con's initiatives. Even perhaps, the Occupation of Iraq. Let's hope and pray?

[cry baby]

81. I cannot toughen up about the death of TS.

I am toughened about the politics and the circus that this has been turned in to. Believe me, I have written and called my reps and senators! I have yelled and screamed at the TV about the spin! I am tough and ready to fight to save this country. I hope that I might have the opportunity to stand next to you in that effort someday. We are standing together in spirit already.

I can still cry over the death and the misery that is the TS story.

[ElectroPrincess]

101. Why? The woman is brain dead.

In fact ... and this is from the heart - I will feel *good* for Terri Schiavo when her soul has left her body. Those of us who are liberal Christians believe that we do our best to live a moral life, a life that is not comfy and opulent BECAUSE our true reward is joining God in Heaven. When Terri leaves her physical body, she will be with God. For THAT I will feel great joy for her personally.

No, I have to dig down real deep to feel any empathy for her parents because they know that her brain (cerebral cortex) has degraded. The outrageous and inappropriate cases brought up on the FOX network about miraculous recoveries DO NOT APPLY to Terri. Why, because her brain has no tissue other than it's lowest functioning brain stem that can be considered structurally intact.

Perhaps it's because I have busted my behind and also have a love for science ... that I earned a degree in Physiological Psychology ... I can see how the science is being twisted by the RW to make it sound like there's hope. But all those lower state courts who reviewed expert after expert testimony KNOW that there is NO HOPE for Terri's recovery.

I guess my background mixed with my fiery nature ... a case like this ... the scientific abuse by political agendas ... really pisses me off because THEY LIE.

God bless this sweet woman and may she now die in peace.

Terri's parents? Well, I need to pray for more compassion because I can't fake the fact that I resent their IMO selfishness in keeping Terri's soul away from God.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Yes there is a tragedyu

we did nto make this into political hay

It was scaiffe and Dobson and Randall Terry who made this into hay.

Right now none of us is gloating, but we are following Napoleon's Dictum, "Don't interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

Right now this is also shatering the Republican Party, or rather bringing to teh surface the divisions we all knew were alraedy there.

Oh and reality is, the moment this went to congress IT BECAME a CONSITUTIONAL MATTER

[cry baby]

30. Agreed, just don't like anyone here telling the parents that they

should just get over it. Looks bad for DU.

[ElectroPrincess]

69. How do you know all the "get over its" are from DU? You don't know that!

Hey don't assume that all the disruption comes from DU. We're big but hardly the ONLY significant democratic message board.

BTW the parents are NOT going to see this petition UNEDITED, so don't worry about their feelings right now. The parents need a healthy dose of reality. They could have had that in 1999. No, I don't feel sorry for the Parents, because IMO they are selfish. I would not wish my beautiful child who has no brain activity to languish in this state. No, I have little to no respect for the parents because it's THEIR SELFISHNESS (they want her there for them) that keeps her here instead of allowing her soul to be released into heaven. That's precisely why we try to do good on earth and live a moral life, so God will see our deeds and allow us into his Kingdom. Why are Terry's parents delaying her entering into heaven? Because they want her "with them" on earth. That's a tragedy.

p.s. if you are agnostic, humanist, atheist, pagan, etc., please excuse, I respect that you don't concur with the above.

[cry baby]

76. OK - I see where you are coming from, and agree with some of what

you say. I am sad that you cannot or won't feel empathy toward parents that have lost their child (15 yrs ago and probably again this week). They love their daughter and just because they don't express that love the way you believe they should does not make them selfish in a conscious way. They are wrong, yes, but they are just lost in agony and being mislead by the likes of right win-nuts like Delay.

I also never said that DU was the only source of the "get over it" thing. In fact, there have been only a couple of posters that have said that. I believe that DUers are mostly respectful, soft-hearted, loving, unselfish people.

[ElectroPrincess]

99. I don't feel empathy for the selfish. IMO these people only care for

themselves. Thanks for the clarification. I want to believe and try to live my life that - you'll never find anyone more tender and soft hearted when it comes to true compassion as myself.

However, if you are wasting your compassion on Terri's parents instead of weeping for the Mother of Sun Hudson, then I regret both your empathy and sympathy IMO are in error if not foolish (you've been taken for a ride by the "PT Barnum RW Fundy Express").

[BrklynLiberal]

23. I think it was her brother that got her parents hooked up with the

right-to-lifers. It is the right-to-lifers, and the brother who won't let go. The parents are as much victims at this point as their daughter is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3337991

[DemoTex]

28. My extremely cynical read on this ...

Terri Schiavo's parents are pushing the envelope for one reason and one reason only: $$$! They are trying to maximize the bucks that they are going to get for selling this story. Mark my word.

[Mz Pip]

31. They will write a book

It will be published by some RW publishing group, bought in bulk so it will hit the best seller list. It will be given away on Sean Hannity's site and other fundie sites as a reward for sending them money.

There will be a movie made that will be sappy and saccarin.

Yes, I too, have a very cynical view of this. It is being milked for political capital now and will be milked for financial gain after Terri dies.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Heddi]

33. Who will play Terri in the movie?

Who is some washed up made-for-tv maven? I can't think of anyone right now.

But I'm sure in the Made-For-TV-Movie, Terri will be writing poetry and formulating posulations on the expansion of the universe when her mean, 6 o'clock shadowed husband who reeks of alcohol and doesn't tuck in his shirt tails comes in and forcefully PULLS the tube from her stomach as she screams "No, michael! I'm not ready to die! This isn't what I wanted...this isn't what I wanted at alll......"

He laughs and slurs "You stupid bitch...I finally got my way. FINALLY GOT MY WAY"

Close up to michael feeding off of Terri's blood and IV fluids, casting Satanic spells over her writhing body as horrified Dr's and Nurses look on in horror.

Enter slew of Federal Judges who then partake in Satanic Cermonies, desecrating Terri's Body. Horrified children and preists look on in dismay and wonder why God has smote our country by allowing such an innocent soul to be desecrated in such a way.

Cut to end-of-life scene where the cameraman smears vaseline on the camera lens, and a back-lit angel comes floating down into the hospice facility, holding Terri's hand, whispering "It's okay, child...come to the light...we'll give you food, unlike your evil, adulterous husband....God's waiting, child. it's your time".

Pan to Terri, clutching a Rosary and crying with her family. Takes one last breath, smiles, winks, single tear rolling down cheek.

Cut to sappy Celine Dion music
Credits
11:00 news

[meganmonkey]

36. LMAO - I think you have a future in writing really bad

made-for-tv movies!

:toast:

[queenjane]

40. No brainer (pardon the pun - not intentional)

The incredibly talented Patricia Heaton! She'll turn down the hundreds of roles that will be offered her post-"Raymond" in order to pay tribute to this abused and murdered woman. /gag

[thinkingwoman]

49. OMG!!

That was truly hilarious. Thank you.

Still laughing.

[0007]

52. Jeb's daughter -Noelle Bush

[Chelsea Patriot]

57. Patricia Heaton...Who else?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

67. Bingo!! LOL! That is dead-on!! :-)

[jdj]

80. who else? Jessica Simpson, those xtians would love to have

her as Terri, she could be all vegetative, but still be showing all that double D cleavage and sucking her fingers like a three year old. Xtians know how to market sex better than anything.

[ronnykmarshall]

74. You left out Jeb riding up on a white horse.

[ronnykmarshall]

78. I forgot to add

Outside in a flashy sports car is Michael's girl friend. She wearing a fur coat, short skirt and dripping with diamonds. With her cigarette hanging from her red painted lips, she starts honking the horn of the car and yelling in her Brooklyn accent .... "Hey Mike, she dead yet?" She task a flask out of her purse and takes a big swing of whiskey, belches and starts fanning herself "GAAAWDDD it's hot here!".

[atreides1]

84. Who will play Terri in the movie?

Why not Patricia Heaton?

[despairing optimist]

100. Except for leaving out a gerbil scene, it's a wrap.

Make sure the good guys are all blonds and drive Tauruses.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

108. blonde. . . tauruses

bahahahhaha

[gardenista]

32. I don't think it's $'s. I think it's ego and the attention they're gettin

They are being used, like so many others before them, by the right wing PR machine. They are desperate, probably not very bright, people who think they are doing the right thing. Perfect dupe for Roveco.

They also can't accept that this shell of their daughter cannot ever recover. They have been able to project whatever they can imagine on their daughter. She is no longer a person to them, but an object, some creation onto which they have projected all of their own fears, their own imagined personality...

I wish for all of them that she will soon have a peaceful natural death.

I do expect the parents to appear all over TV, with RW financed makeovers, and for there to be books, and made for TV movies, and all of the other flotsam. I just don't think that THEY are the ones after the money. It's their RW handlers who are after it all, but mostly the political power they thought this would buy them. It backfired.

[bluedog]

34. bush will

have them in tow on his road trips..........
to push his judges............medicare cuts..Social Security plans.......he'll keep them in the public eye...........to remind people of how bad judges are...and all the frivilous lawsuits.................

[gardenista]

44. They will continue to be pawns for years. Unless the Repukes

decide to distance themselves from this debacle.

[Jersey Devil]

53. Don't think it is money or attention for them - it's for Randall Terry

He has managed to get them completely under his spell, Svengalied.

[SusanF_CA]

43. I have to agree

Hey Demo Tex... I agree with you on this. I have mentioned this to my hubby a few times. I wonder just how much money the family's website is bringing in to them???

I hope this has alerted folks to the purpose of having a living will/directive. Take care

Susan

[anitar1]

47. I agree ,after reading some history of this case

it is my understanding that this all started because they were angry with Mr. Schiavo becaue he would not share 1/2 of the settlement he received with them. That was when they cut him out of their lives.They could not touch the money awarded to Teri as it was put in a trust and adminstered by a bank, for her care only.

[LiberalFighter]

82. That needs to be proved and publicized

[Azathoth]

37. These people have lost it completely

If I were Whittimore, I'd throw a huge fine at the goddamn Schindler lawyer for filing purposely frivolous lawsuits and wasting the court's time, and I'd order a psychiatric evaluation of the parents to determine whether or not they should be fined as well. These people aren't even trying to save Terri anymore. All they're doing is using the courts for political grandstanding and to assassinate Michael's Schiavo's character.

[bluedog]

42. they just can't keep

going on and on.from one court to the next.they tried this before..it has to end this time.15 years is a long time..........why tie up the courts.waste the money.upset the balance of power and rile the people here who ready to oust bush themselves......

[DearAbby]

46. By this time they should just stop, Go be with Terri, and love her

It's at an end, the fight is over, go be with your daughter. Say your goodbyes, tell her you love her. It should be about being with Terri.

[Zhade]

50. "It should be about being with Terri."

Indeed.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

48. Has anybody asked the Schindlers

why, instead of being at Terri's side, they are in front of cameras or hanging out at courthouses all the time?

[lavenderdiva]

51. Anybody know background on Judge James Whittimore (sp?)

Is he in Jeb's corner, or is he able to think independently?

[LostinVA]

54. he already turned them down once this week (Monday?)

That's when it went to the 11th Circuit.

[Azathoth]

55. He was appointed by Clinton in 1999

That's about all I know about him.

[grumpy old fart]

58. He turned 'em down once, and that's all ya need to know.....

Judges do not reverse themselves generally, and certainly not in the space of 2 days. This case is over. It's up to Jeb if he wants to nukiler on this and blow any chance of a national political career.

[librechik]

86. Republican appointed by Clinton

Quick, name a Democrat Bush has appointed to anything (Mineta doesn't count, Clinton appointed him too)

There's our bipartisan president changing the tone again.

[lavenderdiva]

59. thanks for the info... n/t

[davidinalameda]

56. makes you wonder who the brain dead ones in this family truly are

sounds like the parents need some medical help of their own

[MadisonProgressive]

60. What pathetic people!

[Endangered Specie]

61. Let me get this straight...

Schiavo: 25+ judges
Iraq War Crimes: 0 judges


Bet money that there weren't 25 judges at Nuremburg either.

[onenote]

62. i'm worried if this is based on their "amended" complaint

that the judge might decide to give them a stay...I know the judge has turned them down before, but they may finally have figured out how to state a claim that would require him to look at the underlying facts and if so he may feel compelled to order the tube reinserted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3341742&mesg_id=3341742

onenote

[Rockholm]

63. Pick a court, Any court.

They are ALL going to rule on the side of law. Not some create-a-law-cause-we-hate-the-courts law, but REAL laws.

[sescob]

65. These people are so deluded

They(Randall Terry...I imagine this is what the family is saying to him) are saying Terri is so weak today "her voice can barely be heard". What voice? If she HAD a voice, she could TELL us what she wanted and all this would be a moot point.

Oy.

[ElectroPrincess]

70. I fully agree ... some of these RW fundies take spin and propaganda to

new levels of depravity. It's all so sick - this effort to blur THE FACTS.

[depakid]

66. When are the courts going to start sanctioning the lawyers?

Seems to me that if there were ever a case where Rule 11 sanctions should be used to their fullest extent, it's this one.

[chickenscratching]

75. i wonder

if the parents know they're being used as a pawn, sick sick sick. but i could see this as a big denial issue. if they've been lead to believe that terri schiavo could still live and you have all these political talking heads that are willing to help you and say they're helping you because they think terri is 'important', its easy to see how theyre convinced that terri might make it through her current state, that's even more sad.
poor parents, so jaded

[DesEtoiles]

83. How would Terri feel about the way her parents are abusing Michael?

[Camus]

85. when well those people give up.....this is getting out of hand!

[lanlady]

109. Schindlers suffering from martyr complex?

I think in their grief they've transformed themselves into martyrs, which may explain why they're inflicting this suffering on themselves (and others).

[Moderator]

111. locking

update link here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1339850