BREAKING NEWS--Up to 6 dead in school shooting in northern Minnesota

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S7158.html?cat=1

The FBI and tribal officials in northern Minnesota are investigating a shooting at high school on the Red Lake Reservation.

A tribal official tells 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that up to six people may be dead. The shooting took place some time Monday afternoon at the Red Lake High school. There are also reports of several injuries.

The North Country Regional Hospital says it has admitted four people as of this publishing, and that they expect more victims.

The shooter is in custody. The FBI in the Twin Cities plans to hold a news conference later this evening to bring new details. Stay with 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS for the very latest.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5305359.html

The FBI was called to investigate a shooting today at Red Lake High School that may have killed six people and injured 14, according to police and broadcast reports.

At least four people have been hospitalized.

Tom Lyons, chief deputy for Beltrami County, said the shooting occured about 3 p.m. at the school in Red Lake. He said that as many as 14 people were injured. He said he did not know if any of the victims had been killed. "We don't know that yet," he said. "Our information is just too sketchy right now."

KSTP-TV, quoting a Red Lake reservation official, said that six people may have died and many others were injured.

Lyons also said the shooter was in custody. He did not identify the assailant or say how the suspect was caught. He also said authorities are investigating the possibility that there may have been more than one shooter.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/11194858.htm

The FBI confirms a multiple shooting at Red Lake High School, and says some people are dead

Associated Press

RED LAKE, Minn. - The FBI confirms a multiple shooting at Red Lake High School, and says some people are dead.

[salin]

1. I hope the reports of possible fatalities

are premature.

Condolences to all who are touched by this.

[Wickerman]

2. God - thanks, I heard a blurb on radio, couldn't find anything in print.

shit, I hate these things.

[sonicx]

3. That's aweful. I wonder who will be the first to blame it on video games?

[rodeodance]

4. school shooting--I have not heard on the news yet

[ChiciB1]

29. And That's The Real News!!!

Don't you know it's Terri Schiavo Week????

[Tempest]

5. It may not have been a student

So far they haven't said anything about the shooter.

[RamboLiberal]

7. More Info

Beltrami County chief deputy Tom Lyons told the Star Tribune that the shooting occurred about three this afternoon. He said that as many as 14 people were injured.

There are reports from the scene that the victims include students, a teacher and a school guard. A reporter on the scene tells 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS witnesses reported hearing 15 shots fired.

http://www.kstp.com/article/stories/S7158.html?cat=1

Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, has about 300 students, according to its website. The reservation is home to the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5305359.html

[knitter4democracy]

21. I'll bet it was an English teacher. It's always an English teacher.

I just cry when I hear of these things. Kids today are so full of rage and pain, and the teachers are on the front lines. Oh, that poor community, having to live with this.

I taught on the Dine reservation for a month in college. Best teaching job I ever had. I will pray for all of the students and the whole community. How sad.

[-..__...]

30. Or on the NRA.

:eyes:

[Squatch]

40. Ever think about blaming the shooter?

I mean, he's at least partially culpable. /sarcasm

[-..__...]

71. Nahhh.

Doesn't sound or look convincing in a Brady/VPC/MMM press release, conference or sound byte.

Besides, there's no money or publicity to be made when you can sue the company that manufactured the gun instead of the former police officer /family member that the kid stole it from.

[Jacobin]

6. Not terraists, I suppose....just home-grown

unstable kids with an axe to grind, most likely

[sandnsea]

8. Shooting at Red Lake reservation school

I didn't see this posted...

RED LAKE, Minn. (AP) -- The FBI confirms a multiple shooting at Red Lake High School, and says some people are dead.

Unconfirmed reports had as many as five people hurt. KSTP-TV reported that a suspect was in custody, and the FBI had been called in. A news conference was planned later in the day, KSTP said.

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/11194934.htm

On edit: Isn't this clever, merging threads now. I thought this other one would get locked. Cool beans mods!

[RawMaterials]

10. They say that the boy shot his grandfather and grandmother

before going to school.

:cry:

[sandnsea]

9. I just heard about this

How awful. I hate this killing culture and these people who care more about those who can't speak their minds than the ones who can.

You know, that's why it's easy for them to take up the cause of the unborn and incapacitated. They can't call these theocrats on their hypocrisy when they don't do anything for anybody else.

[MichiganVote]

11. CBS - shooter was a student, killed his grandparents

up to six students may be dead including shooter.

[truthisfreedom]

13. oh, no. have they got the kid in custody?

our society is coming apart at the seams... and the thugs aren't helping one bit.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

15. CBS reports are saying he shot himself.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

18. ABC says shooter in custody...

At this point, who knows for sure?

ANy way this plays out, it's another needless tragedy.

[mzmolly]

12. Oh my how sad. I visited/stayed at the reservation there many moons ago.

:(

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

14. Chippewa reservation. If this was a suburbanite school filled with

Attractive wasps, the MSM would preempt Terry rehashes.
<snip>
Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, has about 300 students, according to its website. The reservation is home to the Red Lake Band of Chippewa Indians.

The Red Lake Indian Reservation is in far northern Minnesota, about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities.

Audrey Thayer, who lives in Bemidji and works as a researcher for the American Civil Liberties Union's Minneosta chapter, said the reservation was locked down by police with roadblocks. "They have got it closed off,'' she said.

[onenote]

20. damn straight skippy

Injuns? Who cares. That's MSM attitude for ya....

A visitor from Mars watching the MSM would assume that violent crime only occurs to pregnant women and little girls (white girls). They'd have to assume that people of color never ever get killed....

onenote

[Fridays Child]

28. Worse yet, that alien would see the truth...

...that on the larger part of this continent, anyway, what matters is (white) bread and circuses.

[HereSince1628]

25. Red Lake Res, is a very remote location for tv crews...

While there may be other issues, it would take a while for news crews to get there.

[knitter4democracy]

140. That's the problem with outsourcing our news.

We used to have reporters actually living in all parts of the world and our own country. After that was decided to be too expensive, they were fired or moved somewhere else in the organization.

This is what we as a public get out it. :eyes:

[dflprincess]

79. CBS did lead with the story

and did a phone interview with a Red Lake official. The problem, I think, is the remoteness of the reservation, reporters hadn't gotton to the scene yet and the FBI, at the time of the evening broadcasts hadn't made any public statements. Even when they did (after 6pm Central), they didn't have much to say.

[AngryOldDem]

136. I don't think that is the excuse

My local station here in Ohio announced an AP bulletin on the shooting during the 6 p.m. news. They said they had no other details other than that there had been a school shooting with some fatalities. So, I immediately switch to CNN. Lou Dobbs talking about Mexico. MSNBC. Dan Abrams talking about Schiavo. Fox. Talking about something going on in Washington. They were not covering this as "breaking news" at all. MSNBC did do a brief story as part of its 15-minute update segment.

It was puzzling because they were all wall-to-wall on the Atlanta shootings a few weeks back. I don't know whether we've become used to stuff like this happening, or just too cynical in that we treat it as just one more thing in the news cycle. Either way, this should have been covered immediately by all three cable networks. If my pissant local outlet can do it, so can they. I'm not asking for extensive coverage when the situation is still unfolding, but for some heads-up that it's happened.

(I did a brief flip through the networks, too -- CBS, as you mentioned, was right on top of it. ABC had it in the middle of its broadcast; didn't see anything at all on NBC.)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

16. ABC just gave it 15 seconds... "A student, heavily armed with several

different weapons."

Said he just walked down the halls shooting.

[nonconformist]

17. Horrible

:(

[smoogatz]

19. Man, the upper Midwest has gone completely batshit.

First you got the Hmong guy killing all the deer hunters in December, then you got the church-service shootings at the hotel last week, now this. The news from Lake Woebegone is very, very bad.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnutchuck]

31. Yeah, let's see if Michael Moore is going to stick a camera in there

face again. 2nd time around, they've got a record now!

[DoNotRefill]

60. Yup, especially considering the new reports....

that the grandfather was a cop, and the guns used may have been his. If ONLY the NRA hadn't been defending the rights of the police to have guns!!!!!

[Lena inRI]

23. Add Lisa Montgomery's homicide. . .

of pregnant mother in order to cut out the baby for herself. . .last December, Kansas City, MO.

Midwest coincidence or cause/effect?

:shrug:

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. Hey, it's been a long cold winter

guns and depression are a dangerous combination.

[Trajan]

26. There is no difference between now and then ....

This stuff has ALWAYS happened ... and will always happen ....

Society isnt 'coming apart at the seams' anymore than it has always been .... degenerate, dangerous, ignorant .....

Same as it ever was ....

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. it's is now 9 confirmed dead....jesus

[NYdemocrat089]

32. My regrets to those affected. n/t

[enough]

44. One big difference --

availability of very efficient guns. I have a friend who was killed in a rather small shooting spree on a college campus several years ago. If the shooter (a college kid) had not been so easily able to get the semi-automatic and the ammunition, my friend and another person would not be dead now. And the shooter, instead of being in jail for life, would just be another insufferable asshole.

[NickB79]

65. These guns have been available for almost a century now

I'm sorry for your loss, but semi-automatic handguns, such as the Colt 1911 .45 and Browning Hi-Power 9mm, were invented and used before WWI. They have been in wide circulation since then, along with millions of revolvers that are just as powerful as semi-autos. However, the school shootings we've been seeing have only been occurring over the past few years, when there has been little change in the overall number of guns in the US. To me this implies there's something deeper that needs to be addressed, and that gun control is only a bandaid approach that will not solve our long-term problems.

[enough]

72. It wasn't a hand gun.

I know nothing about this subject, but it was a large long gun with a magazine that would certainly require two hands to use. I may not know what a handgun is.

Of course that's meaningless now.

I give up.

forget it

so many people are dying these days what's another one or two

[reprobate]

91. I'd like to know your ideas on what the 'something deeper' may be.

[NickB79]

94. Mainly what Moore touched on in Bowling for Columbine

That we live in a culture permeated by fear of everything around us, due in part that we get pumped full of violence in media on a daily basis.

[reprobate]

138. Agree 100%. But I think it's intentional.

Intentional first in that it brings money to the media. Sensationalism always does.

Second, because it's much easier to control the masses when they are afraid. Puts them in the mood to follow a leader who promises them safety.

It also keeps them from looking for the truth.

[hector459]

33. "A culture of life" that loves the gun!

I don't get it.

[Dr Fate]

34. where in the WORLD did kids get the idea that violence solves problems?

Surely not from Iraq.

[camaro3232]

69. TV, MEDIA,

From anywhere. I think that less educated people are more likely to use violence to solve their problems. I dont think this was really a way of a kid trying to solve a problem. Just crazy shit, lost it a long time ago probably.

[lebkuchen]

98. US government

You can imagine Bush's reaction:

"Well golly gee, it's a shame the boy did hisself in. We need his kind in the infantry, to pump up our sagging enlistment numbers and help kill us a mess more o' ragheads!"

[saigon68]

101. Correct

This person was needed to discpline unruly "Towel Heads"

[peacetalksforall]

35. Does the FBI have jurisdiction over a Reservation? If not, why are they

there?

[VirginiaDem]

36. Unless I'm mistaken, they do have jurisdiction for a number

of the more serious crimes, like murder. The number of crimes the feds have jurisdiction in has grown--it used to be called the "seven deadlies" or something like that but I'm working off of distant memory here...

[peacetalksforall]

56. I thought it had to be cross-border, plus federal - like a fed bank theft

[VirginiaDem]

61. Could be--my knowledge is maxed out on this one n/t

[dflprincess]

76. The Federal government does have jurisdiction on reservations

and are called in for major crimes, though I think they are suppose to work with the reservation authorities (remember all the problems this caused on Rosebud and Pine Ridge reservations back in the 60s and 70s). State law enforcement will have no role in this.

[Maat]

82. My law professor specialized in Native American law.

Each reservation is technically a "sovereign nation;" the federal government has investigative jurisdiction there, correct? Although, I believe some tribes have some sort of contract arrangement with the local sheriffs to provide security some times. I live near the local Pechanga reservation, and many members are my friends. They have their own police, but, if they need investigative help, the San Diego FBI has to come up.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[camaro3232]

39. In this case it was a police officers gun he used. No gun owners fault fo

for leaving one lieing around.

[NickB79]

51. We've proven this?

Lets see, there are 250 million guns in the US, owned by close to 100 million gun owners. There are now ~12,000 murders per year, and the numbers have been falling for the past decade or more independently of gun control legislation (gun homicides began to fall BEFORE the 1994 AWB went into effect). Since many of those "gun owners" that commit murders are actually felons and thus already banned from ever owning guns, how do the actions of primarily repeat-offending criminals "prove" that gun owners can't be trusted?

[DoNotRefill]

62. You're absolutely right. Given this case and Atlanta....

we MUST get guns out of the hands of the police!!!!

[camaro3232]

38. The shooter stole his grandfather's police issue handgun

Apparently the shoots grandfather was a cop and he stole his gun and killed them then moved on to the school. This is terrible

"Officials: Student kills 5 at school and grandparents

Shooter also believed dead at Minnesota high school

Monday, March 21, 2005 Posted: 7:56 PM EST (0056 GMT)

FBI special agent Paul McCabe answers reporters' questions about Monday's school shooting.

(CNN) -- A student on Monday killed two of his grandparents, then went on a shooting rampage at his Minnesota high school, killing five people and wounding as many as 15 others before killing himself, officials said.

FBI Special Agent Paul McCabe told reporters the dead include a female teacher, a male security officer and four Red Lake High School students.

"We believe that one of those students is the shooter," McCabe said.

The school was evacuated and locked down, he said.

"At this time, we believe he was acting alone," McCabe said. He would not comment on a possible motive, saying, "It's far too early in the investigation."

The slain students were shot in one room, he said, adding that 14 to 15 other students were wounded.

"Apparently, he walked down the hallway shooting and then he entered a classroom, he shot several students and a teacher, then himself," said Roman Stately, with the Red Lake Fire Department, who arrived at the high school moments after the shootings.

Authorities discovered about an hour later that the boy had shot and killed his grandmother and grandfather, a veteran of the police force, Stately told KARE-TV.

Stately said the boy used his grandfather's police-issued weapon in the school rampage.

The shootings occurred about 3 p.m. (4 p.m. ET), in Red Lake High School, a school of 300 student that is on a sovereign Indian reservation within Beltrami County, about 25 miles north of Bemidji, a town of about 25,000 residents, many of them Ojibway Indians, he said.
"

[Amfortas]

41. people ... this is outraguous.... how many innocents have to die

before we have more gun control .... this is happening every year !

[camaro3232]

42. how would have more gun control stopped this?

Saying that is like saying we should make stronger laws make it illegal to shoot someone

[Amfortas]

43. well, for starters , having more gun control may cause the

occasional lunatic to use a knife rather than semiautomatic and thereby kill less innocent people !

[NickB79]

46. Or cause them to use a home-made bomb

And kill far more people, like the Oklahoma City bombing.

[Trajan]

53. Or maybe ... a NUCLEAR BOMB ! ....

Cmon ... how silly can this get ? ...

"IF we dont let people have guns they will simply trade up ... "

Sheeesh ....

[NickB79]

59. Quite a stretch to build a nuke

The Oklahoma City bomber used conventional fertilizer and diesel fuel, stuffed in a van. I could get enough of that at my dad's farm, or just about any other farm in the Midwest, to blow up my entire high school if I ever wanted to.

Now, if you know where I could find a few dozen kilos of highly enriched uranium, high-grade plastic explosives and a nuclear triggering mechanism.....

BTW,

"Cmon ... how silly can this get ? ...

"IF we dont let people have guns they will simply trade up ... "

Sheeesh ...."

Wasn't this pretty much the common argument made when the AWB was dying, that criminals would indeed "trade up" to more powerful weapons?

[Trajan]

63. Your argument was a red herring fallacy .....

and you know it ....

[smirkymonkey]

120. LOL!

"...We'll be back! With Nuclear Weapons!"

[Pert_UK]

114. Yeah...a home-made bomb that's just lying around.....

in the house, and which takes no effort at all to pick up and wander off and kill loads of people with it....

I'm not saying it's not easy to make one, I'm just saying that they're not exactly readily available in the home. You can make one, but hey, I'd rather put a few barriers between disturbed individuals and simple weapons of mass murder. Unlike you, apparently.

[camaro3232]

48. yea, but a handgun is easier to buy illegal than legally in a store

This situation though, gun control has nothing to do with it.

[Squatch]

49. Can you substantiate that claim?

How is a handgun "easier to buy illegal than legally in a store"

[camaro3232]

57. yes, In NY at least I am sure of that, any major city

You need a pistol permit to buy a handgun in NY. It takes 6 months to get one and its a really tough background check. Maybe other states need this. Many other states you do not need a pistol permit(but at least in their heavily populated cities handguns need a permit to be bought).In states where you do need a permit, go to the ghettos and areas where there are lots of drugs and gangs. You can get yourself one in about an hour if you dont come off as a cop. I am serious. I live in a real nice town but the next one over has High school kids selling guns on the street. Handguns are used in more than 80% of shootings, they are easy to conceal.


**Also I forgot to say, but when you do buy a handgun with your permit in NY you have to register the gun to it. So the police know that the gun belongs to you. And if it is a new gun they have a bullet fired from it kept on file. So if there is a shooting they can at least try to find out if where the bullet came from. But unfortunately mostly illegal handguns that are not registered are used in crimes.These registered guns a hardly ever used in crimes. Unless the person wants to be caught or has no conscious

[DoNotRefill]

68. Yeah, and you need a shitload of licenses to buy crack legally...

but how hard is it to get on the black market? Prohibition NEVER works. EVER.

[DoNotRefill]

64. He's absolutely right...

if you buy a handgun illegally, there's no pesky paperwork to fill out. You don't have to undergo a background check. If your State has a waiting period, you don't have to wait like you would for a legal gun purchase.

It's completely, totally illegal for a DC resident to buy a handgun in DC or anywhere else (it is a long-standing violation of Federal law to sell a handgun to an out of state resident, ANY out of state resident). Yet it's very, very easy to get a handgun in DC. Why is that? Prolly because criminals don't obey the law. Go figure.

[camaro3232]

70. Washington D.C. has a very high gun crime rate

"
It's completely, totally illegal for a DC resident to buy a handgun in DC or anywhere else (it is a long-standing violation of Federal law to sell a handgun to an out of state resident, ANY out of state resident). Yet it's very, very easy to get a handgun in DC. Why is that? Prolly because criminals don't obey the law. Go figure."

The area around it is not so nice where drugs and gangs prosper. Sure you will have no problem buying a pistol there.

[DoNotRefill]

73. It's AMAZING....

If you look at DC and the surrounding areas, the harsher the gun control laws have been for the past 30 years, the higher the crime rate is there. DC has draconian gun control laws, and their crime rates ate through the roof. The counties of Maryland near DC have moderately heavy gun control laws, and their crime rates are high. The counties of Virginia have moderate gun control laws, and their crime rates are the lowest in the area.

Prohibition never, EVER works, and it brings tremendous amounts of violence with it. Remember Al Capone?

[camaro3232]

74. But even without the gun control laws there I think the crime rate is due

to the poverty that the people live in there. They cannot get jobs there that support them so many of them turn to crime. Its like that in all low income areas. You have druggies who do not have enough money to support their drug habbit so they turn to crime to get the money. You really dont see much robberies and gun crime in middle to upper class neighborhoods! People do not need to steal there, they have enough money to support themselves and buy their drugs.

[DoNotRefill]

77. heh...

if you don't think there are some dirt-poor areas of Virginia and Maryland surrounding DC, you're wrong. And not all of DC is dirt poor, take Georgetown and Embassy Row...

[camaro3232]

83. yea D.C. has nice places but some dirt-poor places

I mean not all dirt poor places are high crime, but most of them are

[Blue_Tires]

86. i understand your ultimate point

but it is kind of false logic to assume that the crime rate in Metro DC is directly linked to gun control laws. You have to look at also the socio-economics of the people that live in the different areas...Most of the cushier, high-end, rich white flight suburbs are on the VA, with the exception of the outer reaches of Montgomery Co, MD (whose crime rate is probably at least as clean as say, Springfield, Va.)

As a Virginian, i also want to add that the state's moderate gun contol laws have done next to nothing to quell the violence in some places...by this reasoning, Richmond, Portsmouth and Norfolk should be some of the most secure places in the nation, but they unfortunately are not.

and i'm not sure of the differences between the state laws, but i've never known any of my gun collecting friends in MD (who have taken me out to the shooting range) to not be able to get a gun if they really wanted one (legally)

[camaro3232]

92. If you are talking about my post,

what you stated was what I was basically trying to say

You say

"i also want to add that the state's moderate gun contol laws have done next to nothing to quell the violence in some places...by this reasoning, Richmond, Portsmouth and Norfolk should be some of the most secure places in the nation, but they unfortunately are not."

Even though in DC they have very strict gun laws there is still alot of gun crime. The crime is not there because people cant legally own handguns to deter it.

[DoNotRefill]

115. Richmond's crime rate....

spiked when Councilman Chuck was in office...well, at least before he went to prison for dealing drugs...

Gun control laws by definition only affect the law abiding. And the law abiding people aren't the problem.

[PaulaFarrell]

144. Sorry, but that's not proof of cause

Just a correlation - it's possible that gun control laws are so stiff BECAUSE of gun crime, rather than gun crime being high because of the laws.

I live in England with very strict gun control and relatively little gun crime (although it is rising in some areas).

[DoNotRefill]

147. Well...

look at DC's crime rate in 1976, when the gun control laws passed. Has it gone up or down since then?

[PaulaFarrell]

148. couldn't tell ya

I've spent a while looking for this info, but came up empty. However, there's this article:

http://dev.w3-concepts.com/hfdc-dev/facts.htm

But the point I was trying to make is that just because two events correlate, one does not necessarily cause the other. You have to eliminate all other contributing factors first - e.g unemployment, poverty rates, also things like changes in the way crimes statistics are recorded and the cl;assification of crimes. I mean, I expect that now that guns are illegal in DC, there are a lot more gun crimes because owning a gun is now a crime.

Anyway, using DC as an example is kind of pointless - it's surrounded by states with easy access to guns

[camaro3232]

52. and why is gun control always the answer?

Why not blame his parents or his school for not teaching him right from wrong? Ill bet his home life was pretty screwed up and his parents were not around. You dont hear of normal kids from a good family doing this type of stuff. SO many factors can cause a situation like this you cannot just blame one. The easyist thing to say is, there so many people in the world some are gonna be fucked up, shit happens. And in no way in saying that do i mean this is not a terrible tragic event.

[MrBenchley]

133. Some answers are so simple as to seem silly

gun control is the answer because gun control works....every other civilized country has gun control, and no other civilized country suffers the amount of bloodshed we do on an annual basis.

"you cannot just blame one"
Nor can you pretend that this kid could have thrown the bullets and yelled "bang."

[camaro3232]

142. but we do have gun control in place

[MrBenchley]

146. Nope...the industry is largely unregulated

and the few laws that are in place are under steady attack by the scummy gun lobby and the GOP.

[enough]

50. Camaro,

I don't want to repeat the story of my friend who was randomly shot and killed (post 44 above), but there is no question that the ease of acquisition of the semi-automatic and ammunition used in that shooting was one of the causes of his death. I know we can't stop every shooting, but we can stop some of them with gun control.

[camaro3232]

55. I know,

And some gun control does prevent things like this (ncis checks, pistol permits). But in this case its not even an issue I dont think.

[0007]

67. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out!

Give me a fucking break, 'eh?

[lebkuchen]

99. LOL! as if there were any gun control in the US at all!

Come to Europe if you want to see what real gun control is.

One day the US will figure it out. Don't know how many kids killing kids and family members its going to take, but I have confidence the US will one day decide that maybe it does have something to learn from other countries' social structures.

Meanwhile, it is painful to watch the country plod along, doing what it's always been doing, with the same tragic results, which in US terms is defined as "normal behavior."

[NickB79]

45. I agree, this is totally outrageous!

We must enact more gun control! We must keep guns out of the hands of the police, before more innocents die!

BTW, the kid stole the gun from his grandfather and shot him with it. His grandfather was a police officer. Can you tell me what kind of gun control legislation would have prevented this? If we can't trust police with guns, who can we trust with them?

[camaro3232]

47. Well if we ban police from having guns this would not have happend

[NYinCO]

54. Hi, would that (gun control) help on a reservation?

do national gun laws apply on Indian reservations? aren't they considered "sovereign" nations?

[DoNotRefill]

66. Gun control laws only affects people who obey laws.

Funny how that works...

[Lautremont]

89. Funny also how the people who commit these massacres aren't criminals

until they start shooting with their guns, which they might not have had access to in the first place with tighter gun legislation in place.

I know the kid's grandfather was a cop, and this might not apply in this case. But it does in many others.

[camaro3232]

93. I would say that tigher legislation maybe could prevent some things

Maybe only put it off until they can find someone to sell them a gun. It is really that easy for someone to buy one. The answer is not to ban "assault weapons" like many law makers are trying to do now. I think they should go other routes. I am find with gun legislation that can help prevent things like this, but want legislation that does not target myself

[biftonnorton]

116. Let's Put All People Under 24/7 Lockdown, Maybe Drug Them

THEN they won't do anything criminal, b/c it's only when they are free to move around unsupervised that they choose criminal behavior. Therefore, we need tighter legislation all around, not just in the area of gun laws. You never know who is contemplating a crime, so it's better just to have everybody locked down so would-be criminals can't become criminals. Welcome to the Land Of The Free. Leave your guns and other dangerous items, like free will, at the door. Bah!

[primavera]

131. In the short term, perhaps

I'll admit, if you outlawed guns today, tomorrow there would still be plenty of guns available to people who would continue to purchase and use them illegally. But think about the UK, where guns have been outlawed for nearly a century. I'm sure that for the first few decades, there were still plenty of guns on the streets. But now, nearly a century later, it's bloody hard to get a gun in Great Britain. I don't expect strict gun control to produce an overnight effect - no other public policy does, so why should I expect gun control legislation to be any different? - but that doesn't necessarily mean that, in the long term, it wouldn't reduce the number of guns out there and, with that reduction, a reduction in the number of toddlers who shoot themselves and the number of certifiable crazies who, were they armed only with a pitchfork, would be far less lethal when they go on these sorts of rampages.

[enfield collector]

121. the shooter took the guns from a cop, maybe we should outlaw police

having guns. that would have stopped this.

[primavera]

130. Every year? Try every day!

There were at least three stories in last week's newspapers about toddlers getting shot with their parents' guns, some crazy shooting up cars from a freeway underpass, and God only knows how many other incidents that didn't make the national news. Face it, this sort of gun-related violence happens on a daily basis.

[B Calm]

58. WOW, this is in an area I go fishing. I can understand why the coverage

has been slow. This is in the northern wilderness of Minnesota.

[Logiola]

141. I have gone Tubing in Red Lake Falls.. is

this near the reservation?

it's a beautiful area up there (or down there from where i am)

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[camaro3232]

78. What does this have to do with the NRA?

I dont like them either but what do they have to do with this?

[Sandpiper]

80. Just thinking of Columbine

That's all.

[camaro3232]

81. I always think its interesting what they have to say about this

I always think its interesting to see what the extreme anti-gunners and NRA has to say about this. Their statements are so completely skewed one way.

[slackmaster]

125. I predict the NRA will be silent about this one

There's really not much they could contribute. Mental health advocacy isn't really their issue.

[maddezmom]

84. AP: 10 Dead in Minn. Teen Rampage, Police Say

13 minutes ago U.S. National - AP


By JOSHUA FREED, Associated Press Writer

BEMIDJI, Minn. - A high school student went on a shooting rampage on this Indian reservation Monday, killing his grandparents at their home and then seven people at his school, "grinning and waving" as he fired, authorities and witnesses said. The gunman was later found shot to death.

It was the nation's worst school shooting since the Columbine massacre in 1999.

Students pleaded with the gunman to stop shooting.


"You could hear a girl saying, 'No, Jeff, quit, quit. Leave me alone. What are you doing?" Sondra Hegstrom told The Pioneer of Bemidji, using the name of the suspected shooter.


Before the shootings at Red Lake High School, the suspect's grandparents were shot in their home and died later. There was no immediate indication of the gunman's motive.

More:http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050322/ap_on_re_us/school_shooting

[mzmolly]

88. The kid was on medication for depression as well.

His grandfather was a cop on the rez and it's suspected he used his gun to carry out the crimes.

[biftonnorton]

117. Tortured Soul; Gun Locks; Prayers

" Relatives told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise was a loner who usually wore black and was teased by other kids. Relatives told the newspaper his father committed suicide four years ago, and that his mother was living in a Minneapolis nursing home because she suffered brain injuries in a car accident."

And so many will blame the NRA, the gun manufacturers and the pistol the kid used. I bet the kid felt completely alone. Reaching for his g-father's cop gun was just one of the last symptoms of his reaction to the lack of support and solace he found. Sounds like life was pretty cruel to him, as were the kids at school. A tortured soul and a tragic situation.

This situation could've been avoided with a 99 cent gun lock. The social isolation and teasing might have been addressed by caregivers/counselors and it just didn't work well enough, for all I know. Prayers for all.

[NorthernSpy]

119. are police even allowed...

... to put trigger locks on their service weapons? I'd be surprised if they were.

And if a lock costs just 99 cents, I'd bet that it could be picked, forced, or otherwise gotten around with relative ease by anyone who was determined to use the gun.

[malestripper4u]

122. Gun lock

Umm,
not taking sides here, but I have a handgun. I once lost the key to the trigger lock, before I had a safe. So I opened the trigger lock with a screwdriver. Let's be serious here ok?

I feel bad for the victims families, however a trigger lock would not have prevented this. Thanks for playing though.

---MS

[NorthernSpy]

123. correct

As I understand it, the purpose of a trigger lock is to prevent a young child from harming himself or others with a gun he has found and decided to play with. Trigger locks can't stop a teen or adult from using a gun if he really wants to.

[slackmaster]

124. I have a big Ziplock bag o' trigger locks

They are useless to me. The state of California compelled me to buy one with each new or used firearm for several years, until I got serious enough about "safe" gun storage. This 50 cubic foot (external dimensions) behemoth makes me exempt from the trigger lock law. Only 27 more guns and it will have paid for itself, not even accounting for the partial tax writeoff I can get for dedicating part of the storage area for financial records.

[malestripper4u]

132. That things a beaut!

Very nice.

---MS

[slackmaster]

137. Thanks but the first cup of coffee made me see my glaring math error

Actually it will be 297 more guns, not 27, for the safe to pay for itself in money not spent on trigger locks.

Another 50 or so and I'll need another safe.

:crazy:

[Chovexani]

126. Damn.

Relatives told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise was a loner who usually wore black and was teased by other kids.

I'm almost glad the racist MSM is seemingly ignoring this story because it happened to Indians on a rez instead of white folks in the 'burbs. Maybe they won't blame video games or Goths this time.

Mental illness among young people is a silent epidemic in this country. Given the state of affairs on your average rez (poverty, etc.) it makes you wonder how much worse it is there.

This is just a tragedy all around.

[siliconefreak]

85. unreal

So, who else has had enough of the United States? I'm starting to have more admiration for the folks who said they were moving to Canada last November. Maybe they were the smart ones.

[leesa]

87. It's what America wants.

[Shananigans]

90. Damn!

I lived 20 minutes from there in Bemidji! I have a friend who is student teaching at that school. What a crazy crazy world. If only you could all see and feel the desolation and desperation in that area...I cannot condone this at all, but I can see how this horrible violence has been fostered...

So sad...

[lebkuchen]

95. Notice how these shootings tend to take place in the spring

when the school pecking order has been established and testosterone is running high.

I guess this is what makes the US "the greatest country in the world."

I prefer countries that aim for #2.

[Lautremont]

96. Was the Columbine date chosen because of Hitler's birthday?

I confess I can't remember exactly. But there was a foiled plot for a school massacre in Nova Scotia which was timed to occur on the Columbine date.

[lebkuchen]

97. check back dates

to include shootings before Columbine. I figure roughly 90% of them will have taken place in the spring, perpetrated by males.

It's the first day of spring now, isn't it? Have to check my calendar. It could be a long three months before graduation.

[muriel_volestrangler]

100. kick

to get it more prominent than the duplicate thread

[norml]

102. Ten Dead In Minnesota School Shooting

Mar 21, 2005 — BEMIDJI, Minn. (Reuters) - A high school student shot dead nine people and then killed himself on Monday at Minnesota's Red Lake Indian Reservation in the worst school shooting since the 1999 Columbine massacre, authorities said.

Among the dead at Red Lake High School were a male security guard, a female teacher, and at least six students including the gunman, the FBI said. At least a dozen others were wounded in the carnage.

Before arriving at the school, the gunman shot dead his grandfather, identified as veteran tribal police officer Daryl "Dash" Lussier, and Lussier's girlfriend at their home in Red Lake village.

"We believe the shooter was acting alone," FBI agent Paul McCabe said, adding the dead at the school were all in one room.

snip


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=602448

[SmileyBoy]

103. Here's a link via WDAZ in Grand Forks:

http://www.wdaz.com

Click on the Red Lake shooting link under News.

[donheld]

104. While at that website DU that poll

http://www.wdaz.com

[lies and propaganda]

105. Wish that people cared....

but of course, its on a reservation and they arent white.

Maybe if they had all been hooked up to feeding tubes.

I dont mean to sound trivial, Im just pissed off at all the pretend caring and the lack of caring where its completely needed.

[shawcomm]

106. It's just a bunch of Indians...

They aren't white, thus not important.

It's sickening how racist society still is. It's sickening that Native Americans are one of the last group that it's still okay to be outright racist towards.

[praxiz]

107. Take a look around. I'm the 6th person to simply post a reply.

And I'm not even on the same continent.

[muriel_volestrangler]

110. The 6th person in this duplicate thread

There are 99 replies in the original: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1330364&mesg_id=1330364

This is the top story on all websites. It's not being ignored, folks.

[Piperay]

109. Yeah, this has really been downplayed

I bet if it had happened in a white suburb it would be different. :-(

[Robeson]

111. You are exactly right.....

[Skittles]

113. you are correct, Piperay

the media are unbelievably racist - they don't even bother trying to hide it

[Nadienne]

108. Here's a link to the story on msnbc

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259823/>1=6305

"Relatives told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise was a loner who usually wore black and was teased by other kids."

(emphasis mine. that part didn't surprise me.)

[Robeson]

112. Self Delete.

Its better I self delete. I'm speechless.

[NorthernSpy]

118. "Native Nazi": gunman was Chippewa neo-nazi?

From the Scotsman:

A neo-Nazi teenager went on a shooting rampage on a remote US Indian reservation yesterday, killing his grandparents at their home and then seven people at his school, grinning and waving as he fired.

Jeff Weise, 15, who openly admired Adolf Hitler and had been questioned before about threats at his Minnesota school, killed himself after exchanging gunfire with police.

(...)

Jeff Weise admired German dictator Adolf Hitler and was a suspect following threats made at his school last year, he revealed in an internet forum frequented by neo-Nazis.

(...)

Alternately using the online pen names Todesengel –German for Angel of Death – and NativeNazi, Weise wrote several messages in which he said he believed Hitler and the Nazi movement that embroiled the world in war and caused millions of deaths got a bad rap.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4294460

Holy Mother of whatthefuck...?

:think:

[northamericancitizen]

127. It's revolting that the medias are almost silent about this tragedy.

[saigon68]

145. They are too busy with the Schiavo saga

[Heidi]

129. If that Neo-Nazi claims are true . . .

that young man should have been taught the truth about eugenics and "ethnic hygiene": that Native Americans, like African-Americans, folks with disabilities and poor people, were among the tens of thousand sterilized and institutionalized under the international eugenics movement that flourished in the U.S. after the turn of the century and eventually made its way to Germany.

[deutsey]

134. I've also read that the Nazis got their idea for "relocating" the Jews

from how America relocated Native Americans onto reservations.

[Heidi]

139. Please read . . .

"War Against the Weak: Eugenics and America's Campaign to Create a Master Race." It has taken me two months to read it, and I'm spittin' mad (as a part Cherokee woman growing up in the heart of Indian Country) that none of this information was taught to us in public school.

www.waragainsttheweak.com

By the way, your comment about reservations are dead on. PM me for more information.

[MrBenchley]

135. Wonder where he picked that up?

Pretty much every gun show (and lots of on-line gun owners forums) is awash with the sort of propaganda this troubled kid evidently soaked up....

David Neiwert at Orcinus has a number of excellent posts detailing the many links between neoNazism, hate groups and the gun rights movement...

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/

[Dangerman]

128. All this...

We send thousands of soldiers to Iraq to stop a threat that did not exist and we can even protect our own people with one single cop?

:grr: :puke:

[camaro3232]

143. If you picture in you avatar is true, You all better hope we are loaded to

the teeth!