In a Poll, Baghdad Residents Call Freedom Worth the Price

[trapper914]

New York Times

Radio right wingers all over this today...or should I say the headline...Boortz in particular...

67 percent of 1,178 Iraqis told a Gallup survey team that within five years, their lives would be better than before the American and British invasion.

They're hopeful. But it hardly means they are giddy their country was blown up. Hell, I hope things get better for the Iraqis too, but I still don't buy into Bush's reasons for the war.

And then there's the part no right wingers are talking about:

Iraqis in the capital still maintained a great deal of skepticism about the motives of the United States and Britain, and residents said they held France and its president, Jacques Chirac, in higher regard than President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair, who supported the American military action.

Mr. Chirac's favorability rating was 42 percent to Mr. Bush's 29 percent and Mr. Blair's 20 percent.

The poll results also showed that Baghdad residents were nearly evenly divided on whether the American-British occupation authority, headed by L. Paul Bremer III, was doing a good job running the country, with 28 percent giving it a positive rating and 25 percent saying it was doing a poor job

Typical conservatives...they can digest a headline, but the fine print goes over their heads.

[sasquatch]

1. They hate us and they hate Saddam

They like freedom from a tinpot dictator. If they were getting their goverment Iraq would either break into three seperate country's or it would become "The Islamic Republic of Iraq".

[samsingh]

2. bullshit poll

given the state of their current misery i can't believe they would say this. they may say that the future is going to be brighter because they have hope.

[Richardo]

3. That's it for me then. G'bye everybody!!

:hi:

</sarcasm>

[LibDemAlways]

4. Oh come on..

a bunch of Gallup pollsters conducted man on the street interviews (in what language?) in Iraq while
dodging bombs and bullets? This is made-up horseshit.

[Richardo]

6. Gallup said last night on NPR that Iraq does not have the infrastructure

needed to conduct a poll (working telephones, electricity, census and other demographic data).

So there's that too. Was that in the NYT article?

[burrowowl]

5. How many

women were polled. It seems that they can no longer go out without protection.

[Gin]

8. I can picture the respondents...all within a few block radius...

all have armed American guards..

[snippy]

14. Poll was done "face-to-face, in the privacy of the respondent’s own home."

According tp Gallup. http://www.gallup.com/help/FAQs/answer.asp?ID=153

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. "Don't mind these rifles...please tell us what you really think".

[mbperrin]

34. Damn, I didn't know that

Bremer and his guys could be polled that easily!

[jenk]

7. hopeful, optimistic, of course they think there lives will be better

they want it to be after all, we'll see what happens....

[FlemingsGhost]

9. WTF is a Gallup survey team doing in Iraq?

Can you say "propaganda"? I knew you could...

[conservdem]

19. Propaganda for who?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

21. What's your first guess?

[FlemingsGhost]

26. Ummmmm... Saddam Hussein?

Ask a stupid... ah, nevermind.

[conservdem]

28. Given the poll's mixed results, I doubt it was propaganda for anyone.

What makes you think otherwise?

[FlemingsGhost]

32. Read the headline.

In the end, that's what's being shoveled out by the right-wing loudmouths.

[lostnfound]

46. Was it commissioned by American Enterprise Institute?

Like the very similar Zogby poll was:
http://aei.org/news/newsID.19153,filter./news_detail.asp

[xchrom]

10. if i don't believe the polls here

i'm not going to believe polls there.

[wryter2000]

11. WTF

How does that question add up to "worth the cost"? :wtf:

[LiberalFighter]

12. But do they trust the "pollsters" to be pollsters?

Maybe they think they are troops disquised as pollsters. Or maybe they are spys that will report any dissidents to the evil Americans.

[snippy]

13. Most Iraqis are not stupid. Whistle Ass has a 29% favorability rating.

However, the people of Baghdad may be mistaken about Whistle Ass allowing them to govern their own country within the next five years.

[Jax]

15. Bullshit

1178 people "polled" in a city of 5 MILLION during a pre-emptive war? How many of those polled are connected to deserterboy?

Total and complete bullshit. The first language of the appointed deserter and his ilk.

Jax

[lightbulb]

16. Probably the same little ragtag group they got together

for the statue-tumbling photo op.

[MariMayans]

17. Who do you think has phones in Iraq?

I'd bet my ass that the lower class of which there are infinitly more and who by definition are suffering economic hardships that the US has managed to compound would answer differently.

[Barrett808]

22. "Face-to-face" interviews

"The survey was conducted through face-to-face interviews from Aug. 28 through Sept. 4 across the ethnically diverse landscape of the battered capital."

Make of it what you will.

[MariMayans]

24. ah..

Noam Chomsky did face to face interviews in the Plain of Jars. Everyone there hated the guerrillas. Why? "They are just crazy". There wasn't a man to be seen and he knew that most of them actually were guerrillas. He asked if they liked the Americans. Yes, they loved the Americans. You don't mind it when they bomb your house? Nope, that's just fine with them.

Of course they also believed he was plainclothes military intelligence posing as a journalist and I would think Iraqi's having lived in a police state for decades would at least assume the same if not actually be correct.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. Exactly

If I were in an occupied country, and a group of people from the occupier's side came to my home and "interviewed" me to get my impressions of the occupiers, I don't think I would be exactly frank and forthcoming.

[conservdem]

35. It appears that some of those polled felt free enough to give some

negative responses.

[bearfartinthewoods]

43. i'd agree with you except for the bush rating of 29%

reading this thread makes me wonder how little some people in this country value freedom. why be surprised that 2/3rds are relieved to be rid of saddamn?

[lanlady]

18. polling in the Muslim countries is notoriously difficult--

--because of the cultural requirement that the host agree with his guest.

Trust me, I've done it (done polls in the East). We discounted the results a lot because we knew they did not necessarily reflect the respondents' true feelings.

Also, when polling Muslim women, they always asked their husbands or fathers for the "correct" answer. Always.

[PartyPooper]

23. Ask the 'radio right wingers' the same question, "Was it worth the price?"

Was it worth the cost of American, coalition, and Iraqi lives? Were the thousands of injured and shattered lives worth the price? Was it worth the $87 billion...plus what has already been spent? Was it worth the ailing economy and lost jobs at home in America? Was it worth it to mortgage our childrens' and grandchildrens' future to pay for this "war"?

And, was it worth it for America to be so gravely ignorant, naive, and gullible...to erroneously believe and trust their lying, treasonous, and cowardly commander-in-chief...in order to allow him by his political intimidation and propaganda...with cries of "patriotism, terror, and 9/11"...to embark on such an illegal invasion in the first place?

[LastDemInIdaho]

27. I honestly hope they are happier now

Saddam was an evil and ruthless leader no matter how you look at it.

What was the exit strategy for Germany? Do we still have troops in Germany to this day? Did we help get them on their feet in 12 months or did it take longer?

[FlemingsGhost]

29. Horrible analogy.

Saddam is no Hitler.

Iraq is no Nazi Germany.

The Middle East is not Europe.

And you're forgetting Germany was divided in half, for 45 years, with one side being walled-in by a military force equal to our own.

Nice try, though...

[LastDemInIdaho]

31. We still have troops in Germany

My opinion was not a "nice try" - it was my feelings on the matter.

[Minstrel Boy]

30. What a bullshit spin on this poll

67% believe their lives will be better in five years. That's what 67% believe. It's not 67% believe "freedom is worth the price."

And why shouldn't they believe things will be better in five years?

Maybe because they can't imagine things getting worse?

Maybe because they imagine, in five years' time, US troops will have been gone for four and a half years?

Maybe because they don't know Brown & Root are constructing permanent bases?

Maybe because they expect, by then, they'll have their country and industries back?

Maybe because they think, after five years, someone will get the fucking electricity working?

Underreported from the same poll is that, by a wide margin, most respondents believe life is worse now than it was before the war.

[leanings]

33. Constantly amazed

by the ability of the folks on this board to gobble up and consecrate as gospel any piece of information that supports their point of view, regardless of the source, but at the same time to automatically call horseshit on any piece of information that disagrees with their POV. No allowance for nuance on so many people's parts. Freepers on one side, DU'ers on the other; same coin.

[mpsteve]

36. I really don't give a F*** what the Iraqis think!!!

F the polls of Iraqis!!! What matters is are we safer now? Answer is no!!! No way in hell a poll that says 75% of Iraqis are glad Saddam is gone is going to change my mind about the war!!! This poll is a disgrace!

The Democrats have to stay focused. "The threat was not imminent. Therefore, the war was unwise."

That said, the nominee has to be anti-war. I understand Kerry's position on the resolution. Unfortunately, about 96% of our population is too dumb to understand. So he is out in my opinion. Kerry screwed himself and so did Hillary, Edwards, Gephardt and Lieberman if you ask me. Dean, Kucinich, Braun and Sharpton do not look or act presidential. Clark has the best resume and image for these times and that is why he can win and that is why I am supporting Clark. Graham should be the V.P. on the ticket.

[LastDemInIdaho]

38. I care what Iraqis think

I hope the people of Iraq flourish and get the democratic control they deserve. As for Clark, I think he'll be the VP for Hillary after she announces in October.

[demdave]

40. 96% of our population is too dumb to understand???

Thank God we have a genius like you on our side. What is we to thunk , please learn us oh wise one. Sarcasm off


What an arrogant, foulmouth fool. You call 96% of the population stupid and expect someone to listen to you? Go back to school and find out how little you really know. While you are at it, get a vocabulary so you can omit the vulgarity.

[SoCalDem]

37. So, they sent Frank (the doughboy) Luntz to Iraq??

The answers they got remind me a lot of the answers he gets to the "crafty" questions he asks..:)

[Maeve]

39. "Within five years" it'll be better than it was

Takes us to...the end of 2008 and by then they KNOW Dubya will be going out of power! (Sooner, please!)

[Djinn]

41. Polls are useless at the best of times

Having worked at market research firms I know that the resulting tune depends very much on who's paying the piper, if Osama commissioned the poll it would have one outcome, Paul Bremmer another - polls are virtually useless in gathering a "real" picture of opinion

Also why only in Baghdad? Iraq is bigger than the capital - this is also a problem in Afghanistan (the occupation does not seem to recognise the existence of the country beyonf Kabul)Were those polled professional/tradesmen/unemployed - we're told that population SIZE was reflected but not social make-up, if you interviewed only those currently employed by or working with the US occupation forces you'll find a lot of support - the numbers by themselves mean very little.
Most importantly were the respondents asked open ended questions or were there a set of answers to choose from - ie

Q: How happy are you with the US "transition" forces?

A. Deliriously happy - I will name my next child george
B. Very happy - when will they build a Baghdad Starbucks
C. Quite happy they are doing a good job

Basically you can get any answer you want from a survey depending on the exact wording of the questions and the exact make up of the respondents.

[stickdog]

42. The price they are paying or the trillion we are paying.

Why do I think it's the latter?

[Aidoneus]

44. misleadingly positive spin (big shock there)

was reading a rather short analysis of part of it on a weblog earlier, some of it may be of interest..as usual, notable levels of dishonesty on the part of the familiar gaggle of propagandist cheerleaders--

Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics

Two recent opinion polls, one done by the Zogby group looking at 600 residents from four Iraqi cities, and another done of 1200 residents of Baghdad, have been trumpeted by Bush administration officials and by Rightwing rags like the National Review as containing good news for the US. The officials and rightwing journalists' use of these polls, however, has been sloppy and inaccurate, and a glance at the actual results does not suggest a rosy picture, according to Walter Pincus of the Washington Post. Pincus notes, "countrywide, only 33 percent thought they were better off than they were before the invasion and 47 percent said they were worse off. And 94 percent said that Baghdad was a more dangerous place for them to live, a finding the administration officials did not discuss. The poll also found that 29 percent of Baghdad residents had a favorable view of the United States, while 44 percent had a negative view. By comparison, 55 percent had a favorable view of France."

The situation is even worse than Pincus suggests. For instance, on Sept. 14 on Meet the Press, US Vice President Dick Cheney alleged that Iraqis "including the Shia population" reject an Islamic government by a two-to-one margin. This finding was based on the four-city poll. But only one of the four cities was largely Shiite (Basra), which in my view skewed the results. (Basra has a relatively secular political tradition). The 2 or 3 million poor, relatively theocratic Shiites of East Baghdad were left out of the picture altogether, along with pious Shiites in Najaf and Karbala. If you add them in, the support for an Islamic Republic would go way up. And, it is not clear if the pollsters made the distinction between implementing Islamic law and rule by Muslim clerics. Probably only a third of Iraqis would want the latter. But a lot more probably want Islamic law. Pincus notes that 50% of Iraqis think US-style democracy would not work very well. The US administration shouldn't become convinced by this kind of shaky data that Iraqis are happy with the US occupation or want the kind of government that the US intends to impose.
--snip--
right now the 5th item on www.juancole.com

[Bridget Burke]

45. Flawed data: See more recent thread....

It refers to an article by Walter Pincus in the Washington Post.

"Top Bush administration officials in the past weeks have been citing a pair of public opinion polls to demonstrate that Iraqis have a positive view of the U.S. occupation. But an examination of those polls indicates Iraqis have a less enthusiastic view than the administration has portrayed.

"For example, in testimony before Congress, L. Paul Bremer III, the U.S. administrator in Iraq, and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz both cited a recent Gallup Poll that found that almost two-thirds of those polled in Baghdad said it was worth the hardships suffered since the U.S.-led invasion ousted Saddam Hussein. Bremer also told Congress that 67 percent thought that in five years they would be better off, and only 11 percent thought they would be worse off.

"That same poll, however, found that, countrywide, only 33 percent thought they were better off than they were before the invasion and 47 percent said they were worse off. And 94 percent said that Baghdad was a more dangerous place for them to live, a finding the administration officials did not discuss."

http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=137784

[shamanstar]

47. when the americans leave

in 5 years, then they will be happy.