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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:20 PM
Original message
US soldiers to receive ecstasy to fight combat trauma
Edited on Fri Feb-18-05 01:08 PM by brainshrub
THE GUARDIAN , LONDON
Friday, Feb 18, 2005,Page 7

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2005/02/...

US soldiers traumatized by fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are to be offered the drug ecstasy to help free them of flashbacks and recurring nightmares.

The US food and drug administration has given the go-ahead for the soldiers to be included in an experiment to see if MDMA, the active ingredient in ecstasy, can treat post-traumatic stress disorder.

Scientists behind the trial in South Carolina think the feelings of emotional closeness reported by those taking the drug could help the soldiers talk about their experiences to therapists.

...more...

Can you imagine the hell these men are dealing with to need such powerful drugs to cope?

This soldiers suffer because of our societies addiction to oil and the NeoCon's dream for Empire.

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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually it's probably a veiled recruiting tactic n/t
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LiberallyInclined Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. that was my first thought...
it's not just a job, it's an adventure.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. "Join the Army - Rave Around the World"
So will we need to send glo sticks, pacifiers, and vicks vapo-rub as part of our troops care packages?
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Multi uses for vapo-rub??
Like smear it on their genitals and give themselves an enema?
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Perfect way to cover up biowar-induced brain damage
"Well, they went through MDMA therapy. The Ecstasy cooked their brains ... that's it!"

--p!
Just too damn cynical today
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
79. To not be hyper-cynical in this climate would be insane
Truth: there have been reports of high dosages of X has lead to brain damage & death.

Hypothetical: Troops who have witnessed or have been ordered to participate in illegal 'missions' could be given high dosages of X as a cover-up.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. They're being Obliviated
To borrow a term from the Harry Potter books. Their memory is being erased so that they can't tell others of what they know and have seen.
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NAO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sounds like the movie "Jacob's Ladder"
A must see movie about traumatized vets, PTSD, and government experiments with powerful, mind-altering drugs.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Oh God. I saw that movie. Made me want to run straight home and
jump in bed and pull the covers up and huddle up with my husband and suck my thumb. It was horrifying. One of the most distressing movies I've ever seen.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I agree... very distressing!
Love Tim R, but that movie gave me the deep creeps... :scared:
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. Exactly what is in ecstacy? What does ecstacy do to the users...
...mind and body?
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. From what I understand, it makes you want to........
.....fuck everyone within arm's reach. Never taken the stuff, but that's what I've been told.
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frictionlessO Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. You are extremely wrong... euphoria is common as is a sexual drive
that seems to be amped up but its actually not. Its more a feeling of sensuality in a very tactile sense accompanied by an explorative curiosity.

I took MDMA probably 50 times over a 6 year period from 1990-96, I got to partake in experiments in NM as well as partake of the drug in various atmospheres including raves, trance circles, medicine work etc... In all those times I only had sex on it twice and both times was very distarcted and not into actual intercourse. Touching was nice... but I mostly wanted to play music, paint, talk... get creative and overcome my own self imposed limitations.
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Blue to the bone Donating Member (765 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
58. Like I said.......
.........I've never taken the stuff....though I've been around a few who had and thought they were going to screw in the restaurant.
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #35
59. Wasn't it called "Empathy" before it was called "Extacy?"
I was reading (or did I see it TV? I think I may have) the history of MDMA a while back, and I think it was highly regarded by some psychotherapists because it would help (for example) fractious spouses to be more open to the vailidity of each other's points of view.

The gist of the story was that this was another useful drug that had been demonized, like Oxycontin.

Never tried it myself, so have no opinion. Do know about Oxycontin, though, and resent the hell out of the bad press it gets just because people can abuse it. (People can abuse anything.)

Redstone
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
94. But using marijuna medically is criminal in their eyes?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Isn't this addicting???
and this drug is ilegal???
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Illegal? Yes, but...
It's a controlled substance, just like cocaine, heroin, or anything else. These substances can all still be administered with proper approval.

As for what Ectasy does, it's well-named. Makes you feel light-headed and gives you a heightened sense of well-being. On a chemical level, it basically floods the brain with dopamine, the brain's chemical that gets released whenever good stuff happens, like when you have sex, win a game, or whatnot.
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mongo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. No it's not addicting
but it is illegal.

This is a really bizarre story, although I can see great benefit in it if taken in the right setting.

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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
6. What if the soldiers start feeling an emotional
closeness to the Iraqis? Especially the prisoners. Maybe this is not a bad thing if it causes them to care about other people...a real Democratic Liberal value.
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. In related news...
Pentagon increases order for glow sticks by 200%!

Dance, dance, dance your blues away, soldier! That's an order.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. i think i Love you
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. LOL!
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
70. "Sergeant, will you hug me?
I really want to hug you."
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. Resistance has long suspected UStroops drugged before battle
Eyewitnesses: Drugged US Troops Laughing In Battle

http://www.missouri.edu/~quinnl/news/fallujapostsall2.h...

Israel is long known for dealing ecstasy.
My guess-they have the pharma contract for this.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
53. Israel is long known for dealing ecstasy.
"My guess-they have the pharma contract for this."


This is a HUGE illicit trade with them, I'd say you are correct.
In fact, a large Israeli drug ring was busted in Calif....but that was hushed up. They are operating with clandestine gov't. help.
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Chelsea Patriot Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. Israeli Ecstasy's The Best!!!!!!

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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #13
78. Website said "404-file not found"
Do you think they removed the article?

Could you tell me a little more of what it said?
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #78
83. 
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LinuxInsurgent Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. was that right before
performing harakiri and kamikaze attacks? :evilgrin:
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. jewish american princesses?
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Damien Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
44. East Coaster?
Only place I here that phrase
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Um... dude...
I'm Asian-American; my mother was Nisei. The word "Jap" is the same as "nigger" to people like me.

:hi:
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. which would be a neat trick, considering it wasn't invented yet
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
43. No they did not.
nt
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
49. Japs? Nice.
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hmmmmmm....
I wonder if this stuff's better than Zoloft. :silly:
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. Dat's da good ole USA - "DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO!"
.
.
.

No text necessary . .

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LinuxInsurgent Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. yeay...DRUGGED crazies now...
that's what we need, "heartland" hicks ALREADY on a bloodlust for revenge for 9/11 on the rest of the world, taking ecstacy..

it just doesn't get any better than this, folks...it just doesn't...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. Hey, it worked for the Manson Family, right?
:eyes:
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Brooklyn Michael Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
23. Good for combat trauma AND...
...making those late-night mud wrestling parties a real hoot!

:loveya: :grouphug: :loveya: :spank: :loveya: :hug: :headbang:
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
25. Humm, no wonder so many innocent civilians are being taken out!n/t
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. How about a little angel dust to really get the party rocking? n/t
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Lol!
:D
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. and when they come down from a dose
their PTSD is going to hit them like a ton of bricks. Prepare to be medicated for life with only drugs keeping the horror at bay and not your own Gods given will.
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KissMeKate Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. this is experimenting on our soldiers
they might as well put them in cages and call them monkeys
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but...
...I read an article in the NYT magazine about the guy who invented Ecstasy, and he originally thought a good use for it would be in psychotherapy. Apparently it helps break down inhibitions, which might make therapy more effective.

Therapists experimented with it decades ago, but then it became a controlled substance.

Seems pretty arbitrary which substances we accept, which we think need to be controlled by prescription, and which should be illegal...
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
32. So this is what they mean by "Love thine enemy."
.
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Damien Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
48. that's wrong
funny, really funny. but weird, sick, and wrong.
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##
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This week is our first quarter 2005 fund drive. Democratic
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
34. Holy shit, is this what our military is giving our guys and gals....
...in Iraq and Afghanistan in order to cope?

<snip>

What Is Ecstasy?
Ecstasy is the street name for methylene-dioxymethamphetamine (MDMA), a chemical substance that combines methamphetamines with hallucinogenic properties. It is also known as X-TC, Adam, Clarity, and Lovers Speed.

Like all club drugs, Ecstasy is a combination of other illicit drugs. Because many different recipes are used to make Ecstasy, the risk of death and permanent brain damage are heightened when some substances are combined. It is available in tablet, capsule, or powder form; some manufacturers of the drug package it in capsules or generic tablets to imitate prescription drugs. The average cost is between $7 and $30 per pill.

What Side Effects Are Produced by Ecstasy?
Ecstasys effects can last up to 24 hours. The drug produces immediate side effects, and somesuch as confusion, depression, sleep problems, anxiety, and paranoiacan occur weeks after it is taken (NIDA, Community Drug Alert Bulletin on Club Drugs, 2000).

Because Ecstasy alters serotonin levels in the brain, researchers have found that chronic use can lead to long-term or permanent damage to those parts of the brain critical to thought, memory, and pleasure (NIDA, Facts About MDMA, 2000).

Psychological Effects
Psychological effects are confusion, depression, sleep problems, severe anxiety and paranoia, euphoria, enhanced mental and emotional clarity, hallucinations, sensations of lightness and floating, depression, paranoid thinking, and violent, irrational behavior.

Physical Effects
Physical effects are muscle tension, involuntary teeth clenching, nausea, blurred vision, faintness, chills/sweating, dehydration, hypertension, loss of control over voluntary body movements, tremors, reduced appetite, kidney failure, heart attack, stroke, seizure, and malignant hyperthermia (increase in body temperature).

For more information on club drugs, visit SAMHSA's National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information Web site at http//ncadi.samhsa.gov or call toll-free 1-800-729-6686.

<link> http://www.health.org/govpubs/prevalert/v3i25.aspx

<other links>

http://hartford.about.com/cs/healthcare/a/aaecstasy.htm

http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugxtc1.html

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsh... /

Bottom line here is that the military is creating yet another generation of drug users which our country will have to deal with!
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
71. Um, those sites sound like Reefer Madness
having taken MDMA myself many times before it was made illegal (I had friends who made the stuff - biochemists, not street stuff), I can assure you that, other than the teeth clenching, (mild) euphoria, and enhanced mental and emotional clarity, I've never experienced any of the other psychological or physical effects they list.

It's kind of hard on the body; it's not something you want to take too frequently. It seems to leach minerals from the bones, and it always made my joints ache a little if I took it two days in a row. But what it does to the mind is astonishing; it truly is the empathy drug. You can understand anyone - not necessarily agree, but understand.
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BuddhaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
73. as a balance, check out these websites
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PuraVidaDreamin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #34
82. Muscle tension, stroke symptoms, involuntary teeth clentch
Do you suppose someone has been supplying * with
this stuff? His warped sense of reality, and everything so feel good?
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
37. Is ecstasy
similar to the "MDA" that was snorted in the 70's?
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frankieT Donating Member (375 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. yes but MDMA is better -eom-
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
40. This will not work. It will only make it worse.
X will only help them see the suffering they helped cause.
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frankieT Donating Member (375 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
41. IMHO good idea
it helps talking, you feel light and cool with everyone, you don't quit smiling and you enjoy music beyond your imagination.
a lot of empathy and love, energy (it's the amphetamines effect), touching becomes a whole new experience and sex a crazy adventure without end which lasts for hours (with my girlfriend we managed to last 13 hours f***ing :hug:).
i think it can be useful to relieve depressed people and help them talk but the side-effects can be devastating if it becomes a habit because it changes the chemistry of your brain and makes you more depressed when you finally stop it.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
57. problem is...
did you see the side-effects above? i believe one of them was violent behavior. so we give our soldiers a drug that makes them more violent and detached from teh world. just fucking peachy.

we don't NEED a soldier class, and this experimentation could lead to that. a soldier class of genetically enhanced super-soldiers. so fiction becomes fact, the hard way.
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Damien Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
45. PCP as combat drug?
stronger, faster, kill kill kill!

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Damien Donating Member (280 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
46. Pot with MREs!
hey -- you need something to make yourself hungry enough...
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
47. I experienced a lot of trips during the 1960's
LSD was the government's drug of choice to "research". I went to work on it, lol. Today's "research" drugs are designer varieties.
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
50. The Cheat is Grounded! n/t
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Technowitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. Geebuz Effin' Chripes! They have GOT to be kidding...
So... you have PTSD from war, you get Ecstasy.

Shrinks recommend it for people who are suffering from extreme depression, non-combat related PTSD, and so on -- and are flat out turned down because the gov't insists there's no reasonable use for this drug. Yeesh...

What's next? Doobs issued to guys on the ground?

(Mind you, I am EXTREMELY libertarian-minded when it comes to this stuff. As far as I'm concerned, anti-drug laws never worked and never will.)
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
52. IF this article is right - which who knows


NEW YORK (Prensa Latina) - The US Pentagon has failed to make public all the human cost of its war against Iraq, especially regarding soldiers with mental disorders, according to an article in Wednesday's El Diario/La Prensa.

The newspaper noted that the international press is reporting the total number of US casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan between 42,000 and 142,000 -- including all those killed in action, wounded, or suffering illnesses.

It added that Puerto Rico is about to start to receiving wounded and sick soldiers as part of a program to ease cramming in regular medical installations.


http://rense.com/general63/lying.htm

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brainshrub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #52
72. .
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Logansquare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
54. Ecstasy has already been used on PTSD experimentally
I don't think the results are conclusive at this point. Proponents hope that PTSD can be reduced with immediate treatment with MDMA (Ecstasy) in order to prevent flashbacks, nightmares and other symptoms. I felt hopeful when I heard about the intent to help victims of violent crime with this therapy, but am a little ambivalent about its use on combat veterans. Does this make it OK to have young men exposed to the horrors of war? Yet, we know from the Vietnam war of the permanent psychic scars inflicted during combat.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
55. Take that War on Drugs!!!
The War on Terror just kicked the War on Drugs in the ass!!! Maybe they can combined them now - The War on Terror Drugs!!!
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Baclava Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #55
62. The Fight is never over
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lateo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
56. This is a very bad idea...
I was a long time extacy user WAY back when you could still get it legally. The drug can give you "extacy" but there is a price to pay for it emotionally. I came to see it as a "mood enhancer". If you are in a good mood it will make you feel great but if you are really, really depressed it can make it even worse.

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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
60. In the article it was quoted:
"People are able to connect more deeply on an emotional level with the fact they are safe now"

I don't think any kind of upper is "safe" for someone with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Sometimes a person with PTSD can experience a lot of anxiety, and if they have a severe form of PTSD the adrenal glands can be exhausted and/or damaged. Any drug like this can be real bad on the adrenals.

What the hell are they doing to these guys now? :wtf:

Oh yeah you can always trust the good old UFFDA! (sarcasm)
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
63. oh man
if the military is admitting to this, it makes you wonder what what drugs they are using in secret to create their 'better soldier'
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #63
81. Well, we already know soldiers are being given meth
From the articles that came out when we bombed that Canadian unit in Afghanistan. So that they don't need to do that pesky sleep thing. LSD was tested on soldiers in Vietnam and stateside back in the 60s, in addition to other chemical weapons like "truth drugs." Why are we surprised again?
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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
64. What the hell? nt
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lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
65. No medical marijuana for the dying but Ecstasy for troops? eom
N/T
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Troops cost money
We on the otherhand are expendable.
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
67. I don't think this is a good idea at all....
(I am not against using ecstasy for other instances)

Isn't one of the symptoms of PTSD depression? I know when you take ecstasy only once, it takes two weeks for you seretonin levels to build back up to what they were prior. Yeah it makes you feel wonderful, but are they going to let these poor guys walk around for the rest of their lives all tripped out on it?

The damage this will cause will certainly override any benefits.

MTV did a special a few years back about this girl who was 22 who took it for a year, four to five nights a week. She started having major panic attacks, bordering on psychosis. They gave her an MRI, and the results came back. Turns out, her brain was the equivalent of a 70 year old major stroke patient.

Give em a joint, and leave it at that.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
68. We want you to feel better...so you can get back to the front (n/t)
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
69. Ecstasy?? One of the more dangerous drugs you could give to someone
already torqued out of their minds?
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
74. Reminds me of the LSD "experiments" of the 60's...good grief
:)
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
75. Now we're really 'fighting the war on drugs' - nt
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Hillary08 Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
76. I feel their pain.
Can I have some too?
I'm pretty stressed over this whole thing. Anybody else?
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
77. oh my god!
how sad
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
84. THIS IS A HORRIFIC ABUSE OF OUR SOLDIERS!!!!
Edited on Sat Feb-19-05 11:44 AM by TwoSparkles
I am not an expert on PTSD, but I do live with the condition, due to trauma and abuse suffered in childhood. I've read several books on PTSD, in an effort to understand my condition and to heal.

In addition, my therapist is a world-renowned PTSD expert. He was on the first team sent to the Oklahoma bombing scene, to help those who had been inside the building during the explosion. All of his clients have PTSD. I've learned a great deal from him.

I cannot stress this enough. What our government is doing to these soldiers is ABUSE and is antithetical to what any PTSD expert will tell you.

PTSD creates a state of "emotional suspension" which helps victims cope with overwhelming trauma. Combat veterans "suspend" their terror/fear/sorrow/rage--in order to do their jobs. Their feelings, as well as the horrors they witnessed, are buried deep in their minds--until they feel safe and strong enough to deal with the buried trauma.

When the emotions and images return--it can be crippling and overwhelming. Lots of talk therapy, group therapy and cognitive therapy helps the the PTSD gently release the trauma. Unraveling the trauma can sometimes take years--in rare cases, decades.

With that said---THE VERY LAST THING A PTSD SUFFER WOULD NEED IS A DRUG THAT DESTROYS MEMORY, FOSTERS PARANOIA AND CREATES UNHEALTHY SEROTONIN LEVELS. Drugs that level out serotonin can be effective in treating PTSD. HOWEVER, ECSTASY MANGLES THE SEROTONIN LEVELS.

Again, I'm no expert--but that's the point! A non-expert can tell you that a drug like this would augment the worst symptoms of PTSD!
It would worsen PTSD symptoms and delay healing--if not destroying it!!

Here's what our own State Department says about Ecstasy:
http://www.state.gov/g/inl/rls/fs/2230.htm
"Ecstasy is toxic to the human nervous system. Scientific studies have found that ecstasy use produces long-term-perhaps permanent-damage to the brains ability to release serotonin, which regulates mood, body temperature, and memory. Use of the drug often leads to dramatic increases in body temperature exceeding 100 degrees Fahrenheit, which in turn can lead to muscle breakdown and kidney and cardiovascular system failure. The greatest short-term dangers of ecstasy are hypothermia-which can result in fatal blood clotting-and its ability to overload the heart, precipitating heart attacks, and strokes."

This is a very disturbing story. It's absolutely mind blowing.

Nothing positive can result from a PTSD sufferer taking Ecstasy. Yes, the drug can induce feelings of "warmth" and "closeness" and happiness. However, those feelings MASK the trauma--that needs to be gently lifted. This only prolongs PTSD. I'm sure a few shots of vodka, just like Ecstasy, would have calming effects and lessen PTSD symptoms--temporarily. However, drinking vodka does nothing to help this psychiatric condition and the side effects EXACERBATE PTSD--in the long run--just as ecstasy does.

Ecstasy side effects include: Paranoia, memory loss, anxiety, hallucinations, psychosis, disorientation, strokes and other serious physiological symptoms.

It's important to note that our government spent $10 million in 1990, to increase awareness of the dangers of Ecstasy in this country.

So why are they giving it to vulnerable, traumatized soldiers?

I am deeply, deeply disturbed by this. It seems as if our government is attempting to create more trauma in these soldiers--possibly to wipe out their memories or to discredit their recollections of what happened in the Middle East.

PTSD sufferers who get effective therapy and become healthy--would be more likely to speak out--and they would be credible and strong. Ecstasy could create psychotic symptoms and a rash of soldiers who cannot heal from PTSD due to cognitive and memory damage caused by the ecstasy.

This is an extremely grave situation.

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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #84
85. No. The following would be an extremely grave situation
IRR 021905

Baqubah Diyala Province.

Entire US column reported wiped out in ambush near
Iranian border.

A US military column was completely wiped out in fierce
fighting with Resistance forces according to the
Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent in the town of al-
Mundhiriyah, near the Iranian border, east of
Baqubah.

The correspondent, who was at the scene of the battle,
wrote that a US column made up of eight vehicles came
under Iraqi Resistance attack in the Jalabiyah area, known
as the at-Tilal or hilly area, at 10pm Friday night. The
Resistance fighters holed up in strongholds in the
hills unleashed a sweeping attack on the US column,
using missiles, pipe rockets, bazookas, and land mines
that they had planted in the path of the American forces
before their arrival.

Four US tanks, three Humvees, and one armored vehicle
were destroyed in the fighting that lasted two hours,
the correspondent reported. He said that US dead were
in excess of 60 men. An adjutant commander of the Iraqi
border guards confirmed that the entire US column was
wiped out.


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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #85
89. When did this happen?
BTW...I think they're both "grave" situation.

IMHO, of course.

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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #89
91. According to the IRR, yesterday
Edited on Sun Feb-20-05 07:15 PM by jmcgowanjm
Our troops have been drugged since
Boykin said we're going into Fallujah
after Satan.

This from Debka last April:

http://debka.com/article.php?aid=825


US Troops Pull out of Major Centers as Iraqi Security Forces and Interim Government Buckle


Hostilities were halted in Falluja for the same reason US
forces redeployed outside al Kut and, as we shall see below,
Ar Ramadi: The only way to forcibly seize control of the
town centers was to mow down entire civilian
populations. Already, the six-day Falluja battle had
reportedly claimed 478 Iraqi lives and a civilian exodus
had begun, threatening further disorder. US casualties
were also climbing too fast 45 in a
week.

4. The same deadly cause-and-effect spiral caused the
US command to check its military advance in Ar Ramadi, a
key point on strategic route known as The Corridor between
the Tharthar and Habbaniyah Lakes. Held in place,
American troops had to forego their planned offensive
against the mixed Shiite-Sunni forces overrunning large
areas between Ar Ramadi and the southern outskirts of
Kirkuk.

This time last year the US/Israel/UK were
fearful
of ethnic bloobaths. Now they would welcome
them. That's how far we've come and how grave the
situation is.

Plus we've got to somehow ramp up our forces
for Iran/Syria/Venezuela. How grave? This
time next year everyone 25 and younger,
except for maleprostitutejournalistmarine
8+cut's, will be in uniform.

Oh, and expect most troops to encounter
DU illness, genetic defects.


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ausiedownunderground Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
86. Everyone I know in Oz who has taken it - Love it!!!
MDMA is not a "Terrible" drug if it's actually pure MDMA!! Because it's been "deemed" illegal by most Anglo-Saxon governments, the MDMA tablets that are being taken by "Shit" loads of people is a "Lottery"! It probably has MDMA in it but most are "cut" by some other Amphetimine which is unable to produce the same "feelings" of MDMA. The MDMA cuts in early, but the other amphetimines usually take over later, and produce a different experience. You get to stay up for a long time!
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
87. missing the point: drug aside, TSS is common enough to consider this....
THE REAL POINT, the soldiers are getting Tramautic Stress Syndrome from how unjust this war is and having to do things that are putting them in this state, that they can no longer function as soldiers in large enough numbers that the govt. is willing to consider drugging them to erase their horrors.

Don't miss the real point point getting distracting by what type of drug they are talking about. The point is the fact they are talking about it at all reveals several possible disturbing things:

1. The problem is huge enough that instead of covering it up they are talking about outrageous solutions.
2. They recognize that soldiers cannot be persuaded by normal means to go back into battle: Which means either this is an unjust war and that is affecting morale, or the backdoor draft and other policies are stressing soldiers and overcoming all other morale efforts.
3. It has nothing to do with morale, but outright combat-psychosis from stressing these soldiers out, and there is no effect therapy without drugs to even treat them. What happens when or if these soldiers are readmitted to the mainland? Are we looking at an even LARGER problem than we had with vietnam?
4. Pharaceutical companies are standing at the endless money trough.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
88. that seems like the last thing you would want
more like a cup of cofee in the morning in the presense of people who care
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
90. Which Movie Had Soldiers Receiving Fighting-Drugs or Meanness-Drugs...
... to make them better fighting machines? If I recall the storyline, the experiment turned into disaster when they became paranoid and turned on each other.

Was this a real movie??? -- or is my brain playing tricks on me by combining the plots from a movie and a book and some episode of Outer Limits?
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ckramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
92. Once addicted, they better supply them ecstasy a life time
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
93. ecstasy...rapture....sounds christian.
maybe we should give it to priest-pedophile victims, too!
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