No Protection for Bloggers...

[lala_rawraw]

Okay, this is just going to have to get ugly.... the latest from Wired:

No Protection for Bloggers

By Adam L. Penenberg | Also by this reporter Page 1 of 2 next »

02:00 AM Feb. 17, 2005 PT

Over the past eight months, bloggers have covered two political conventions; claimed credit for forcing the resignations of two prominent journalists (soon-to-be former CBS news anchor Dan Rather, ex-CNN news chief Eason Jordan); outed a conservative faker with a taste for gay porn credentialed to cover the White House; and risen from relative obscurity to media darling. They've done this while attracting impressive levels of web traffic (and advertising dollars) and conjuring up a cottage industry and community devoted largely to, well, themselves.

Now, with two reporters from established news organizations facing jail time for defying an order to divulge confidential sources to a federal grand jury, bloggers are clamoring for the same legal protection that journalists are accorded under the First Amendment.

But they won't get it. Besides, even if they did, it wouldn't be of much use.

Depending on whom you ask, bloggers are either "citizen journalists" who are democratizing media, or bloviating loudmouths posting ill-formed opinions on personal websites between trips to the fridge. They are victimizers when they assault the news organizations they love to hate, and victims when they are treated as "real media" by litigious companies out for blood. "Salivating morons," members of a "lynch mob" (Steve Lovelady, managing editor of CJR Daily), the "sons of Joseph McCarthy" hellbent on destroying careers (Bertrand Pecquerie in a Feb. 12 post on the Editors Weblog), or simply "citizens who want to know the truth" (BuzzMachine's Jeff Jarvis, guest on CNN's Reliable Sources with Howard Kurtz).

Read more here:
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,66630,00.html

[LiberalMandrake]

1. Bloggers can add - 1+1=2

http://www.google.com/search?q=tartus+sevastopol

[MHalblaub]

27. -1 + 1 = 0 -EOM-

[superconnected]

2. I'm not sure about this

They should be able to have free speech but they should also have accountability for their sources if they are going to affect public opinion.

[ixion]

16. well, the media can legally lie

so your constraints should apply first and foremost to the people who reach the widest audience: the MSM.

[superconnected]

22. absolutely apply it to MSM

[regnaD kciN]

24. CMC, not MSM!

Use CMC ("corporate media cartel"). Using MSM merely frames the issue so that they're "mainstream" (a positive attribute to most people) and we're not.

This has been discussed on several threads already in the past couple of days.

[Shakespeare]

3. Sentelle's blathering aside, this will be decided in the courts.

It's inevitable that we'll have a test case on it, and it'll be interesting to see what the higher courts decide.

Sentelle is a Clinton-hating asshole, by the way.

[dbt]

10. To HELL with Sentelle!

He bears a large responsibility for replacing Robert Fisk with Kenneth Starr (to hell with HIM 648 times) in the so-called Whitewater investigation. It figures that he would weigh in on this issue, too.

:grr:
dbt

[despairing optimist]

4. "Bloviating loudmouths posting ill-formed opinions"

Bloggers, please stop. You're moving in on the Sunday morning talk-show circuit. Tony Blankley and Tim Russert may sit on you.

[98geoduck]

5. Good One!

[Nostradammit]

6. "outed a conservative faker with a taste for gay porn"

"outed a conservative faker with a taste for gay porn credentialed to cover the White House"

*BEEP*

Wrong! Outed a male prostitute White House ringer is what they did.

Thanks for playing, try again.

[bpilgrim]

8. zactly

these folks are TERRIFIED...

now they must know what it felt like to be a candle stick maker at the dawn of the light bulb :evilgrin:

peace

[ausiedownunderground]

7. Let the "Test Case" be Gannongate! Oh Yeah!!!!Bring it on!!!!!

And during the trial the "liberal" blogger machine will find out every little detail about The Judge, Attornies and even the jury members. Its great when "Bloggers" combine their efforts. Even the "Freepers" might help on this case!!! or maybe not this one.

[lala_rawraw]

14. Yep, it bugs me...

This is a discussion I have been having for a while now: blogs vs. indie press and responsibility. In fact I gave an interview about this very thing. Here are my thoughts, and also why OSPA is essential to both genres.

Bloggers/Diarists are important as the voice of the people. I don’t believe they should be forced to follow journalistic constraints. I also think bloggers can say things journalists cannot and that is very much needed. In other words the voice of the people cannot and should not be controlled.

That said, an indie press alternative to the propaganda which is now the fourth estate is also essential and does need to be responsible and ethical in its reporting. The new fourth estate must provide a factual historical document for the future; to that end, the process then requires key features and structures that are more limiting than that of a blogger or diarist. In order to provide and accurate document of current events, journalists need to use sources, for example. Those sources must be protected and therefore the journalists can be and should be held accountable. I will not write something if that means I have to step over dead bodies to get the scoop. I will sit on a story, if need be, if that means the source is protected. The other element is that journalists have a responsibility to truth above anything else, although the sources’ issues vs. the truth issue are sometimes at odds, and those are difficult decisions to make. Nevertheless, the obligation to truth does not allow for speculation, theory, or anything that may become rumor and spread without substantive findings. To lump the indie press with diarists does a disservice to both and devalues both. It applies constraints and responsibilities on the people (bloggers) to express themselves fully and openly. That is dangerous as it is the road to silencing the masses. At the same time it discredits the indie press by making them out to be activists first, above truth even. That is also dangerous as it silences truth.

I think citizen journalists do not need a degree or even the experience to be “journalists” In fact, much of the indie press is founded on this openness. They do, however, need to adhere to ethical reporting standards and put their own views aside when reporting and put their needs aside when vetting, and sometimes even put their own safety aside.

Some journalists are bloggers, yet even as bloggers they are constrained to speak in vague terms and such. Pure diarists are not constrained and should never be constrained on any level other than perhaps civil discourse and basic respect for people they are interacting with (but that is more of a site to site thing, not a blanket policy on any level).

The MSM has failed. The indie press is what the fourth estate is and bloggers are the voice of the people. Does that make sense? Anyway, citizen journalists are journalists and are welcome to be considered for OSPA credentials. People have written me to say that if only they had a degree and so forth. A degree does not an ethical, responsible, valuable reporter make or even a good writer. One needs only to look at the overly qualified MSM to see just how under qualified they are.



I think the current news/journalism and blog sources are as follows (just my faves):

Online
Original Reporting/Aggregating News/Columnists
Truthout
Raw Story
Common Dreams
Salon (although fading quickly due to bad management)
LA Weekly
Open Secrets
Cleveland Free Press
Village Voice
Buzzflash
AlterNet

Blogs/Columns/Op-Ed (combo)
DU
Atrios
Bloggerman

Blogs (I LOVE)
DU (also mentioned above)
The Peach
Watching the Watchers
Brad Blog
Voters Unite
Smirking Chimp
Rabid Nation
(this list is huge, so will limit here)

Just have to throw this in:
Publications/Hard Copy (CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT)
Vanity Fair
Mother Jones
Harpers
Atlantic Monthly
The Nation
Rolling Stone
(these are the ones I cannot manage without, but there are more that I really love).



Feel free to add your own. Also feel free to send your interest to OSPA as a journalist; you don’t need a degree to be ethical, educated, and talented.

[tx_dem41]

9. I believe that bloggers ought to be open to slander and libel laws..

just like journalists...and anyone actually. So, I guess they are.

[lala_rawraw]

17. well,

see my post somewhere in here... slander/libel should be applied only if Ann Coulter is also held responsible, otherwise, they can kiss our collective asses.

[Tuttle]

11. They should get the same protections as Novak receives

n/t

Tut-tut

[LevelB]

12. This is pure FUD

I agree that bloggers have the right to free speech, and deserve the protection of journalists.

But it won't mean jack shit without the legal fire power to back it up ($$$). I figured a backlash would be coming now that republicans are feeling the heat, but could not see the form it would take. Now it seems obvious.

B.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

13. Soooooo, the national enquirer must now tell the exact

location of batboy... or is that the other highly entertaining paper... oh well, no matter, batboy will be caught, the National Enquirer will give sources for ALL of its amazing stories and that will be that.

If it must go for bloggers, then it must go for EVERY SINGLE SOURCE OF "NEWS" that exists. This is pure desperation at seeing the truth leak out from anywhere and everywhere. Pretty soon DU members will have to footnote and credit what they put up... then again, they sorta do that when they post the links that lead to the "rest of the story".

This is going to be interesting.

[Jawja]

32. Oh yeah,

wasn't it the tabloids that ran with the "Bill Clinton raped me" stories and Matt Drudge on the internet that ran with all "leaks" from Starr's office?

Gee, why all the sudden hand-wringing over the "credibility" of internet sites?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

35. Because internet sites are kicking their

sorry asses. Score one for truth tellers.

[bvar22]

15. If the MSM was doing its job,

there would be no market for the bloggers.

Every fact about the White House Security/Propaganda Scandal (MANGate) was discovered by the Internet Journalists. Every FACT was available in the Public Domain.

Mainstream CorpoMedia = 0 (zero) Complete Failure

[AZCat]

20. The Media Cartels ARE doing their job...

It's just not the job you think it is.

They don't work for us. Only we work for us.

[ixion]

18. hello? Freedom of Speech? It's my website, I can say whatever I want

who do these people think they are? :grr:

[Eric J in MN]

19. In situations in which journalists are protected, I believe that bloggers

who acquire information when gathering news should also be protected.

[Damien]

21. secret bloggers

all this will do is make the identities of bloggers hidden -- they will start keeping their real names secret (no -- that's not a Gannon joke -- I'm serious).

That's the logical conclusion.

It's not like most of us know who most of the rest of us are anyway...

[Straight Shooter]

23. We've been hellbent on destroying Rush's career for years

We print the truth, over and over, and where does it get us? Nowhere. Who the hell is protecting Rush? And what about the lies and slander that come out of his bloviating, salivating, moronic loud mouth?

And don't get me started on that faker of fakers Phil Parlock and his child abuse through manipulation of the media with his little girl front and center.

Bloggers would have very little audience if you could find any semblance of the truth in the SC-MSM. Walter Cronkite would have no competition, neither would Ed Murrow. But these "bubble-headed bleach blondes" and "prissy boy anchors" deserve to be knocked off their phony pedestals.

[DoNotRefill]

25. Excuse me....

but where does it say that you have to be part of the "mainstream media" to get First Amendment protections?

[SoCalDem]

26. Bloggers cover their asses by LINKING to the source of their evidence

not by resorting to "unnamed officials at....." or "some people say"....or "there are those who report that..."//

Those are the coins of the realm for the "real" journalists who are too chicken to report who said what, because they are afraid they will be left off the soiree lists or won't get invited to watch *² chop wood in 108 plus temps at Crawford..

Bloggers and most reputable opinion sites document everything they do BECAUSE they are trying to prove what a shitty job the media does :)

[flobee1kenobi]

30. Re: by LINKING to the source of their evidence

Great point SoCal!

What is the cry that erupts when someone posts news?

linky?

and it usually takes more than one link to be believeable.
Wasn't it bloggers that cracked the GI Joe doll story after the AP printed it as fact?

[Ellen Forradalom]

28. "Bloviating loudmouths..."

"posting ill-formed opinions on personal websites between trips to the fridge."......?

How is that different from Ann Coulter, who is a bloviating loudmouth publishing ill-formed opinions in my local newspaper between trips to the vomitorium?

[flobee1kenobi]

29. The media seems a little angry!

When they no longer tell the truth-do they really expect people to just sit there and accept it?
The people that really have a desire to know whats going on will dig for it themselves. We dont need reporters anymore. If Gannon, or whatever his name is today can get a press pass, whats to stop you or me? -Why not go as a member of DU?
It blows my mind that even the media is scared shitless that people are able to use technology to communicate with each other on such a large scale.

[Ellen Forradalom]

31. That's because they've been played for the jackasses they are

This guy was sitting in the White House press room for months, asking wacky questions, and it took outsiders to ask the simple question, "Who the hell is this guy?"

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Orsino]

34. What First Amendment Protection?

"Now, with two reporters from established news organizations facing jail time for defying an order to divulge confidential sources to a federal grand jury, bloggers are clamoring for the same legal protection that journalists are accorded under the First Amendment."

What First Amendment protection? When you can be held in contempt, you aren't protected.