Border talks called `disturbing' (Canada/US integration)

[Minstrel Boy]

Border talks called `disturbing'

Blue-ribbon panel looks at North American integration
Canadian vice-chair insists group has no hidden agenda

Feb 14 SEAN GORDON, OTTAWA BUREAU
The Toronto Star

OTTAWA—An influential tri-national panel has considered a raft of bold proposals for an integrated North America, including a continental customs union, single passport and contiguous security perimeter.

According to a confidential internal summary from the first of three meetings of the Task Force on the Future of North America, discussions also broached the possibility of lifting trade exemptions on cultural goods and Canadian water exports.

...

Council of Canadians chairperson Maude Barlow said the summary, a copy of which was obtained by the Toronto Star, was "disturbing" and "shocking."

"What they envisage is a new North American reality with one passport, one immigration and refugee policy, one security regime, one foreign policy, one common set of environmental, health and safety standards ... a brand name that will be sold to school kids, all based on the interests and the needs of the U.S.," she said.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1108336208455&call_pageid=970599119419

[cthrumatrix]

1. One World Order --- where are the "naysayers"?

[atreides1]

16. What Naysayers?

If your referring to Falwell, Robertson, Graham, or any others of that group, don't hold your breath.

These men and their followers are want One World Order, they are, in my humble opinion the organizations and groups that are the "Beast"
of Revelations.

My theory is that the "Beast" isn't just one man, but a coalition of groups who seek power and world domination.

When a company in Florida came out with a microchip that can have all of your personal information on, including credit card and medical information, were the few "naysayers" any of the men listed above? No, not Falwell, not Robertson, not Graham, none of them came out against this technology.

So don't expect them to come out against this agenda either.

To our Canadian friends, here is at least one American who will help you keep your independence, this offer applies to those from Mexico as well. After all, isn't the US all about freedom and liberty?

[ilovenicepeople]

44. The "BEAST" comes with 1000 heads.

and the Antichrist comes disguised as an Angel of Light.Once you open your eyes it becomes quite evident that the Darkside is in control at present.
For your info.
The merging of Mexico,USA,and Canada will be known as THE PAN- AMERICAN UNION.

[thecrow]

50. Lucifer = light bringer

nuff said

[achtung_circus]

84. 1000 heads+Angel of Light=1,000 Points of Light? nt.

[renaldo]

82. The Beast

IMHO, is corporatism. Corporations evolve to fit their environment and also seek to change it for their benfit. They will consume everything in their path. People are "expenses" to be eliminated. The ultimate goal of corporate evolution is elimination of people to maximize profit. The Nazis were the epitomy of this. Hitler (the "head" of corporatism) died of a "wound to the head" (as in the Bible), but the Beast has recovered in Repuke America. Corporations (the body of the Beast) have status as persons even though they have no heart or soul. They just keep mindlessly destroying as they follow their primitive imperitive grow. War is profitable so we have wars. Pollution is profitable so we have pollution.

[hansberrym]

88. Good post, but it ain't just repukes pushing the New World Order

You might remember it was Bill Clinton that pushed NAFTA through Congress. That so-called "trade agreement" is just one more small step towards their ultimate goal of destroying our Democratic Republic and replacing it with a totalitarian world government.

It is easy to spot treason when it is perpetrated by one of the Bushs or by Newt Gingrich, but how many Dems will recognize it when it comes from someone they trust?

[Arkana]

2. Personally, I'd welcome Canada

They'd be a balance to Jesustan down south.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. Thanks, but no thanks.

We're a 10th of the US population; there aren't enough of us to balance out anything. Besides, I like our paper ballots.

[Mandate My Ass]

8. Exactly, this is about moving the other countries to the right

and imposing GOP policies on everybody without discussion or choice.

[Tempest]

9. The U.S. would also weaken your environmental laws

This would be a disaster for Canada.

[stevedeshazer]

15. We want your oil and gas

Your diamonds, your lumber.

[oneighty]

27. Water

The key word here is Great Lakes water. Millions of gallons of fresh water.

Water for the drought which will strike the south west in years to come.

Golf courses need lotta water. (as do farms of course)

180

[stevedeshazer]

29. True, that too

California has had plans to tap the Columbia for years.

[icymist]

66. And Beer. Don't forget the beer.

Canadian beer is some of the best. :toast: Drink 'em up, drink 'em up!~ One glass two glass three glass more....drink Port Huntley beer! Yum!:beer:

[Megahurtz]

69. How about Piper's Ale

from Victoria B.C.:beer::beer::beer:Tasty!

[Walt Starr]

20. Actually, bring Canadian Prvoinces in as individual states

Each Candaian Province would get two Senators and a guaranteed minimum of 1 Rep per state and 3 electoral votes per state.

[struggle4progress]

93. What's the point of merger, if we won't get parliamentary government?

[Arkana]

56. Good point.

On second thought: Can I go live there instead?

[dutchdemocrat]

11. Personally

I don't think many Canadians would go for it. In fact, the laughable angle on US ire about Canadian defense spending is the idea that the biggest threat to Canada - is its bigger and very power-drunk neighbours to the south, rather than Russia or China.

[Canuckistanian]

14. There's no "Canada" in this proposal

They're talking about assimilation.

[kypper]

38. So what else is new?

Read Mel Hurtig, Paul Hellyer, and countless other patriots in Canada who want to stop the rapid corporate buyout of Canada by the USA.

Once it happens, I'm off to Europe.

[Ian David]

34. They're much better off without us

My God! Bush wants to invade Canada!

[LinuxInsurgent]

3. umm...

no one held a referendum here if we wanted to join the three nations together! At least EU members get a referendum to choose!

I don't have problems with thinking of creative transnational passport/custom policies...coordinate them, to make it easier...but I have big problems with the "one security regime, one foreign policy, one common set of environmental, health, and safety standards".

WHOSE SET of standards will that be...Canada or the U.S? Because I don't want U.S. policies to be the norm in North America...I think they suck and are scary.

Canadians and Mexicans WILL NOT stand for this...even if Americans do...I can virtually assure you that Mexicans won't...hahaha...the nationalistic Mexicans accepting the policies of Washington? Hah.

[Adelante]

19. "creative transnational passport/custom policies"

This part would sure be nice.

[leesa]

4. Another Republican wet dream...to annex Canada. I didn't think they

would try it so soon. Make sure you nip this in the bud canada or you will be GOP prisoners too.

[vpigrad]

7. I don't think the word is annex...

more like violently conquer and destroy.

[Dhalgren]

17. Anschlaus...

[Redstone]

32. No, it's "Anschluss."

Your comment is correct, though, notwithstanding the spelling.

Redstone

[Huckebein the Raven]

60. Exactly what I was thinking too

[cascadiance]

22. Well, Rethugs know they'll have to start the draft soon...

... if they're going to march into Iran. So if they have Canada "under control" there will be less ability to emigrate there, for whatever reason many of us might have. They'd like to get this started sooner rather than later.

[GOPBasher]

6. I wish we could just unite with them.

They'd pull the country way more to the left.

[natrat]

10. a source of cheap labour from the south

for the scumbag corporations

[JerseygirlCT]

12. And resources from the north.

Very scary talk, indeed.

[lonestarnot]

57. don't forget slave labor resource (us) and draft dodgers no

longer will have Canadian refuge... draft coming!

[Siyahamba]

13. Marriage recognition

Hopefully this will mean that each country involved has to recognize ALL of the other countries' marriages.

[dmallind]

18. Ummm...

OK Guys does Canada have an early April Fools' Day that we're not in on?

This makes no damn sense at all. What the heck is in it for the Canadians? The only damn advantages we in the US have is population and military strength. As far as I know Canadian population growth is moving along well enough with immigration and there is no remotely credible military threat to Canada (with the obvious exception of the US itself if this really is real and Martin wises up enough to pull the plug!).

Everything else - life expectancy, literacy, environment, crime rate, whatever you want, is better there than here. Well OK the football sucks but that's a small price to pay for not having NASCAR :-)

What this does to me personally of course id prevent the easiest out if the Bushistas get a bit more scary than they already are. I've applied for a couple of Canadian jobs already but I'd be taken more seriously if sold up here and lived there for a while. Guess I'll have to go back to England instead if things get worse here.

[Ian David]

59. Canada would have our strength... as well as THE TARGET ON OUR BACK!

They'd have our strength, but if they joined us they would need it.

Canada: Nobody wants to bomb us, ey!
America: Join us, and people WILL want to bomb us.
Canada: Take off, ey hoser? We like being friends with everyone.
America: You will submit. I have a mandate.

[leftofthedial]

21. Jesusland and Jesusland North

why don't we just claim they have WMDs and bomb the shit out of Toronto until they greet us in the streets throwing flowers?

[Spazito]

23. This is NOT going to happen!

There has been groups trying for this for years, Canadians will not stand for this. Any government that even touches it will be turfed out immediately. We can do that via a vote of 'non-confidence' on legislation like this, if it were ever to be put forward, and the government would fall. We do not have to wait 4 or 5 years to toss out a corrupt government.

We also have the right of 'recall' to get rid of our reps if they are supporters of this crap. Bottom line, it isn't going to happen.

As an aside, Maude Barlow is a real heroine, she does great work!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. Christ I hope so....

I love Canada just as it is and would be mortified if such a blatant take over by my country were attempted.

I have never been am so ashamed to be an American than in the last four years...

DAMN YOU BUSH!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[buzzard]

37. Hi Spazito do you have any links to groups in Canada like DU,

I am a Canadian and find myself hanging out here a lot. I had a scary thought Canada goes ahead with evoting, machines supplied by ES&S or Diebold the US controls our elections and puts in power whatever puppet they want. check out this link if you haven't yet done so. Sandy

http://papervotecanada.blogspot.com/2004/06/summary-of-canadian-electronic-voting.html

[Spazito]

41. Hi buzzard!

To be honest, I don't know of any sites in Canada that are comparable to DU, I wish I did! I know there are various chat rooms but have not found them to be valuable in gathering information and there are some blogs out there but I don't have links to them.

I, too, hang out at DU alot to gather information and news items that I pass on to both Canadians and Americans for their information.

Is that a link to your blog? It is great re paper voting, we do NEED to keep a close eye on this issue as the sales pitch from US companies like Diebold, etc, is at a high pitch up here from what I have heard.

[buzzard]

46. No it is not my blog but I check it frequently for updates on evoting, I

also wish I could find a comparable site but have not so far. I like this one for the most part it affirms that not all Americans are in support of *s and the PNACers.

[Spazito]

54. I don't know if you know there is a Canadian Forum

that Skinner and the admins very generously set up for us. The admins are so great!! Here is the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=190

There is also a PNAC/Neocon group set up to discuss and investigate PNAC, it's activities, members, etc.

I believe you can read it but need to be a paid member to post on it. The link is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=307

[ilovenicepeople]

45. Howdy fellow Canadians!!!

Hey Buzz, I havent found a Canadian equal to DU but I find that there are plenty of Merican's here that could almost pass as Canadians,therefore I feel welcomed here?(HOWDY southern buddies!:hi: )

[u4ic]

72. Have you tried rabble?

www.rabble.ca

Babble is the discussion forum.

[buzzard]

76. Hi thanks for the link. n/t

[arikara]

75. This site is good

Not quite as big as DU but nice and lefty
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/

[earth mom]

68. I sincerely hope you're right! Because my reaction to this idea is NO

Hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Vincardog]

83. Wait until your votes are tabulated on a Diebold Crooked cooking box.

[Pachamama]

97. Hey Spazito! It better not happen! I want my future home in BC to be a

safe place to go when I need to get away from the Fascists!

Seriously though, I hope our Northern Brothers and Sisters are watching closely because I don't think these "Freedom Spreading" Neo-cons would be happy to just let all those nice Northern Resources go untapped....

Reading this article gave me the creeps...this and the news this week that the "Real ID Act" passed the House and it includes some real scary stuff and implications for our civil liberties and our borders....

[Redstone]

24. I'd favor a US / Canada merger...

if the Canadians would be in charge.

Redstone

[Orsino]

51. Yeah.

We can't be trusted, obviously. We let the money get all over everything.

[mainer]

25. There goes the Canada option for draft resisters n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. That option was already gone because of a recent Canada-US....

...agreement stating that any American seeking asylum in Canada would have to be returned to the US.

[sarcasmo]

28. I guess this rules out moving to Canada. One nation under Chimpy.

Could you imagine,one foreign policy. Canada has a policy we don't so will Chmipy force Canada to adopt our no foreign policy. The Chimp is making the world scarier by the day.

[Coventina]

30. Um...Mexico is part of North America as well!

Is Mexico included in this plan?
Or is it conveniently left out?

[Dhalgren]

64. If Mexico were lucky it would be left out, but no way...

"tri-national panel" means Mexico is in for a little gringo love, as Dumbo would put it.

[jbnow]

86. I thought of Mexico.

I think of the need for soldiers...and poor Mexicans. Would this enable people to join each others military? They seem to have plans that would need a lot of soldiers and they need to find them somewhere.

They've been wooing our poor kids a long time, maybe wooing other countries would put off a draft.

But this will never come to pass.

[donsu]

31. bushgang wants to suck Canada dry of it's resources, like water

the US west is running out of water.

watch out Canada! let the bushgang step toe in your country and you are a goner. you all will be paying smirk to drink your own water.

[satya]

33. NO!! Don't let the * regime destroy your beautiful country.

If anything, I want to secede from the US and join Canada.

[Beam Me Up]

35. I could say "US annexing Canada" but

I think this is different, right? This is phasing out Canada AND U.S. as such. We already have the North American Strategic Command (or whatever they are calling it).

[kypper]

39. Not really

The United States would remain culturally and would retain its control. Canada would just be left as its proverbial bitch to be squandered at whim.

I wouldn't have thought so in Clinton's era. Now, I'm just scared.

[gula]

36. Over my dead body

Aside from all the other bad/terrible/horrific points, unless you travel strictly between the US and Canada you do NOT want a common passport.

Besides, why would we want to hitch ourselves even closer to a country that's become despised practically the whole world over and that's on the way down. We can sink ourselves without help.

So sorry, but no go. We will continue to welcome progressive USians but that's where the puck stops.

[CanonRay]

71. If you ever need

some to help with the resistance, give me a call. Keeping the US out of Canada is something worth fighting for.

[LynnTheDem]

40. In a word; NO.

NO fucking way. Not no but HELL FUCKING NO.

NO NO NO NO NO.

Canadians; get ready to do to the White House what we did last time.

[Minstrel Boy]

42. Makes me want to sing this great song about the War of 1812,

"Secord's Warning":

Come all you brave young soldier lads
With your strong and manly bearing
I'll tell you a tale of a woman bold and her deed of honest daring
Laura Secord was American-born in the state of Massachusets
But she made her home in Canada and proved so faithful to us

There's American guns and 500 men
So the warning must be given
And Laura Ingersoll Secord was the stalwart heart
Who braved the heat and the flies and the swamp
To warn Colonel Fitzgibbon

There's soldiers pounding at the door
And they come from across the border
American officers march inside
It's food and drink they've ordered
In comfort they have dined and drunk
Their own success they've toasted
But they pay no heed to the woman who hears their plan so idly boasted

Oh, James I've overheard it all
A surprise attack they're making
Fitzgibbon they intend to smash
His men for prisoners taking
And James a warning never you'll take with your wounded knee and shoulder
I myself must carry it past the sentries and the soldiers

It's an all-day tramp to the British camp
By way of Shipman's Corners
There're snakes and flies and sweat in her eyes
There is no respite for her
She's lost her shoes in the muck of the bog
Her feet are torn and blistered
But there's many a soldier lad to be spared if the message be delivered

So all you Yankee soldier lads who dare to cross our border
Thinking to save us from ourselves
Usurping British order
There's women and men Canadians all
Of every rank and station
To stand on guard and keep us free
From Yankee domination

[LynnTheDem]

48. Now I'm HUNGRY!!! Send me Laura Secord choccie!!!!!!

One more year...just one more year and we're going back to Canada for ever & ever...can do it just one more year...

[Minstrel Boy]

52. If you can't wait until you move, you can order some here:

http://www.feelbest.com/laurasecord_chocolates.cfm

[LynnTheDem]

53. Oooh TA! Any online site for scotch broth too? HP sauce I can get here

and even sausage rolls, but I could murder a few cans of scotch broth. :D

[Redstone]

62. Poutine, it's a cold day

and I could use some poutine.

Also a Michigan Burger.

Redstone

[LynnTheDem]

79. I'm in Texas; it's bloody HOT HOT HOT here! LOL!

Poutine NUMMMMM.

The first month we're home I am gonna EAT EAT EAT EAT EAT!!!

Aero bars...cherry blossoms...Black Magic...scotch broth...poutine...NIPS!...scones...Wilkin & Sons jam...

Hubby just wants bitters (and outta this country) and he says he'll be happy. :D

[Redstone]

73. You can order scotch broth soup

from the Vermont Country Store (vermontcountrystore.com). Pepper pot, too, if you like that as well.

Redstone

[LynnTheDem]

80. Thanks!

Not cheap...but WHO CARES!!! Nummmmmmm! :) :) :)

[mcscajun]

85. Baxters Scotch Broth

from a site based in Florida, no less.

http://www.britishdepot.com/prods/WM071506.html

[LynnTheDem]

95. Thanks!

It's gonna be a nice Spring full of salad and SOUP! :)

[LeftHander]

43. I guess we are invading Canada....

wow...

[LynnTheDem]

49. 3rd time lucky? Tried twice before, didn't go so well.

Ain't gonna go well a 3rd time, either. BRING IT ON, bush.

[barb162]

55. Bush wants 100% of the Great Lakes (GOTTA GET WATER for

the desert Southwest USA ) and he doesn't want to pay attention to little things like the current treaty on the Great Lakes and of course who would think of ever telling the desert states to stop growth because THERE'S NO MORE WATER / the reservoirs like Lake Mead, are drying up. Why use common sense when you see the Great Lakes sitting there.

[Lautremont]

58. I read a novel once called "Exxoneration"

which, if I recall, posits a war between Canada and the United States over natural gas. The hero was the head of Petro Canada (the state oil company) and the war was won by the Canadians. The Canucks outwitted their opponents with some kind of surprise tactic made possible by the comparitavely small number of airports in Canada.

It was a pretty dumb book, actually.

[Demeter]

61. Everything Bush Does Is "Disturbing"

even that which is not downright illegal.

[GliderGuider]

63. If this were to happen

You might be surprised to find out how many Canadian guns escaped the infamous registry. These talks are obscene, and Aquino is a naive, self-serving tool of the American corporatocracy. He reminds me of the fictional Prime Minister in the recent CBC mini-series "Water".

Fortunately the outcry would be so great that it's more than any politician's career would be worth to seriously support such a harebrained scheme.

[Amonester]

65. If a minority fed. gov. sells out, I think Quebec will just...

win a popular (and DEMOCRATIC) referendum to become a free nation in no more than 40 days later...

and with a 68-32 victory for the OUI side!

* is a NO-NO in Quebec...

[rucky]

67. Does that mean we get to call our dollars "loonies"?

i can dig it.

[CanonRay]

70. We need Canada

If for no other reason as a place to run to when our country periodically goes nuts...as in now.

[Radio_free_america]

77. Are you realy going to anschluss Canada ?

I realy wonder, thinking that is freigtening to me.

[mmonk]

74. In might sound good

kind of like a North American version of the EU but not under this administration. This administration seeks domination more than cooperation for mutual benefit.

[Megahurtz]

78. Oh no here it comes, the start of the New World Order

and just WHO do you think wants to be in control?
Look at posts #16 and 44 and look at these links: This is NO joke, once you open the links scroll down and study this info and who is involved and has been involved for YEARS (including corporate bigwigs)

http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

http://www.sonic.net/~kerry/bohemian/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_bohemian_grove.html

Fucking creepy if you ask me.:wow:

I hope Canada resists anything to do with merging with the U.S.

[chlamor]

81. You Are Duly Warned by the...

indefatigable researcher Minstrel Boy. Your posts are excellent MB.

You are duly warned

The relentless approach of global feudalism:

"In addition to these pragmatic goals, the powers of financial capitalism had
another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of
financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of
each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be
controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting
in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and
conferences. The apex of the system was to be the Bank for International
Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by
the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations."

Prof. Carroll Quigley (Tragedy & Hope)

"The interests behind the Bush Administration, such as the Council on Foreign Relations, The Trilateral Commission - founded by Brzezinski for David Rockefeller - and the Bilderberger Group, have prepared for and are now moving to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens."

Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, Ph.D., former German defense ministry official and advisor to former NATO Secretary General Manfred Werner (2001)

"The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite, unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities."

Zbigniew Brzezinski.

[hansberrym]

87. When in the Course of human events...

The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies
In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them...

http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/declaration.html




the USA or One World Order?



Please write your Senators and congressmen now, the Senators are aware of what is going on and it is a good bet that a good number of them are on the side of the New World Order, but our Representatives are usually more open to questioning the wisdom up throwing away our independence. Also write your state congressman and ask thar they pass resolutions calling for a moratorium on international agreements of this nature.

Ask them to reject the FTAA (free trade area of the americas)
Ask them to reject the WTO next time it comes up for reauthorization.
Ask them to reject the World Court.

[proudbluestater]

89. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Any other country that would sign on to THIS piece of manure needs their collective heads examined.

[Der Blaue Engel]

90. Aw, c'mon, Canada...

We just want to bring you FREEDOM! (Stop that struggling now. We won't hurt you if you just lie still.)

[tlcandie]

91. US effort to come up against the uniting of Europe...

Like anyone wants to be a part of the US?!?! :+ Laughable at best!

[blue northern]

92. Not gonna happen. Willingly. Ever.

The true north strong and free.

[queeg]

94. Won't happen if French-speaking Quebec part of deal

Once the Neo-Cons figure out they will have to learn French to talk to the Quebecois --they will quickly nix the deal

[IndianaGreen]

96. Hitler called it the "Anschluss"

Since Austria and Germany shared the same language, Hitler decided that Austria should be absorbed by Germany in what was called the Anschluss (the union).

Bush probably has Messianic visions of taking over Canada.