Marines Face Tougher Recruiting Questions

[Rose Siding]

ALGONQUIN, Ill. -- On a recruiting visit to a school in this Chicago suburb, Marine Staff Sgt. Jody Van Doorenmaalen asked a sophomore what popped into his parents' heads when they thought about him joining the Marines.

"The only thing they think (is) I'm going to go to war and die," 16-year-old Nick Ambroziak replied.

The exchange illustrates the difficulty these days for recruiters like Van Doorenmaalen as they visit high schools, community colleges and shopping malls trying to sell the Marine Corps to young people while the country is at war in Iraq.
...
With his military-style haircut and dream of becoming a police officer, Gold would seem the ideal candidate. But Gold is pretty sure what would happen if he did join.

"I probably will get deployed," he said after talking to Van Doorenmaalen. "And I'll probably die."

Among the biggest obstacles today between recruiters like Van Doorenmaalen and recruits are parents. When the country wasn't at war, parents often stayed in the background while their sons or daughters decided whether to enlist, but today they pepper recruiters with questions and concerns......

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-marine-recruiting,0,1671135.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[merwin]

1. 'Recruiters seek more guidance and council from parents'. BULLSHIT.

They're trying to get people to enlist, no matter what. They're not in the business of making parents feel good.

[TwentyFive]

2. If my kid ever wanted to join the military...

I would see myself as a failed parent.

[TwentyFive]

3. Even if there was a Draft - I would buy him a getaway car to Canada!

[ugarte]

4. I'm with you

I've seen these recruiters in action. They show up at high school sporting events looking all spiffy in their dress blues and walk up to some kid and in front of his girlfriend ask if he's a real man. When of course he says he is, they offer to take him out to eat--any restaurant he chooses, which is usually someplace like Chili's. Then, over lunch, they close the deal like used car salemen.

They're absolutely soulless, these guys. It's all about numbers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. They started calling my kids on the phone

when they were really young - like 14 or 15.

[jbnow]

19. My son was always getting calls

Though he is 31 now, so it was some time ago. But they kept calling even when he told them he would never, never consider joining.

In his senior year he just wanted to stop the calls so I overheard him saying he would love to join, but can he keep using drugs? When asked he went into a list of his drugs of choice. Whatever they said next he said he could say he didn't do drugs, but could they help him skip all drug tests?

He laughed so hard after he hung up. I told him I hoped that worked but it could backfire if he runs for president. (Evidently not too much, he could say he was saved) They never called again.

If they pursued that hards then I wondered how hard it might be now.

I have a friend whose son was wooed into joining the Army, he is still in training. They wooed and dined the parents too, who were still against it. But she feels better because they were told he would be very unlikely to go to war. I'd want to believe that too if I were her, but I am so sad about it.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[TygrBright]

22. Why?

This baffles me, and I am a Quaker and a dedicated anti-war pacifist.

But my father was a Marine, and many other friends and members of my family consider it an honor to serve in the military.

These are not ignoble impulses, and in a time when there is very real risk that they WILL see combat, even less so. The real strength of our military lies in the percentage of enlisted and officers who are genuinely individuals of conscience and ethical principles.

The fact that this particular war is an illegal atrocity does not mean that the impulse to serve your country in the military equates to a desire to commit illegal atrocities.

The problematic aspects of the US military being used as an engine of imperialist aggression are not the responsibility of servicemembers, not even the Joint Chiefs. Our military is civilian-controlled, our Commander-in-Chief is an elected civilian official, and thus, ultimately, the responsibility for misuse of military power devolves upon us, the civilians.

Not upon the men and women who have made the decision to place their mortal bodies between their loved ones and the devastation of war.

Even as a double-dyed pacifist, I have to recognize that on extremely rare occasions a military solution is the lesser evil. I have deep philosophical reservations about the role of military power as a "deterrent," but I am clearly in a very small minority. Until that minority grows more substantial and strategically placed, (we pacifists must work daily to make this happen, heartbreakingly futile as it may seem from day to day,) the pragmatic reality is that military power DOES have some validity as a deterrent.

It horrifies, enrages, and grieves me that so many of my fellow-citizens are willing to thoughtlessly squander the commitment of our military personnel. But I honor those personnel no less for making that commitment.

That said, would I advise any young person to make that commitment now?

Certainly not. At a time when the military is being grotesquely abused and misused by its civilian authorities, it is a valid choice to deny those authorities the opportunity to abuse and misuse yet more personnel. I would probably try to talk them into delaying their enlistment until this ruinous adventure has collapsed. Perhaps I would advise them to consider some temporary alternative such as police, fire, EMT or other service.

But I would not automatically make a blanket condemnation of the desire to serve in the military, or regard it as a failure in parenting. As a pacifist myself, I would be disappointed that my children did not choose the way I value to express service and commitment to their fellow-citizens.

But I would respect their choice.

Perhaps this is what you meant?

I'm sure you did not mean to imply that there is something ignoble, stupid, or evil in choosing to serve your fellow-citizens via the military.

hopefully,
Bright

[The Zanti Regent]

5. That is what they did to me.

I forbade any military recruiters from coming to my apartment to get at my son. So he went behind my back and met them at a church. They promised him all kinds of fun and prizes to sign up, he did.

AND NOW HE IS DEAD.

MY ONLY CHILD IS DEAD.

[peacebird]

6. words fail me, Zanti

i am so sorry... when my only boy was overseas (Navy) i was worried sick, even though he was in a "safe" place compared to the Marines or Army... now - (thank heaven for the "one strike and you're out" drug policy) - my baby is out of the military...

you are living every parents worst nightmare. i am so sorry.
:cry:

[Stuckinthebush]

7. I'm so sorry

I can't believe that they went to such extremes to get at your son.

There are no words...

My sincerest condolences.

[AndyTiedye]

9. That is so sad

:cry::cry::cry:

[Paula Sims]

12. I am so sorry Zanti

Anger and words cannot bring your son back but know that these are more than words; we really feel for you and the rest of your family. The only consoling grace in the article is that students seem to be more apt to listen to their parents so hopefully we won't be hearing as many such stories.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Paula

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. OMG

How tragic.

Those fucking assholes.

[jbnow]

18. My heart goes out

To you and yours.

The young can be so brave and foolish. Bless his heart and yours.

His love is forever all around you, but that is not the same as a hug.

[AnneD]

29. Dearest Zanti

As the parent of an only child, I understand your special grief at your loss. It is truly our worst nightmare. You made EVERY effort your protect your child from the dangers and deceit of the world and did so for a long time. Take comfort in your efforts. You did not fail in that. In the end though, they will do what they will do, even if it breaks our hearts. Channel your grief into something productive in your son's name. Your words will have great power and may save other young men. My prayers are with you.

[MARALE]

31. He met them at a church

A church should be a santuary and not to be used to sign up young kids for war. I am horrified that the church allowed this if they knew. I am so sorry for your loss, words fail me.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. an all-volunteer army shouldn't need recruiters

people should line up to defend this great nation.

I mean, its not like people join us just to get college money or anything, right?

:eyes:

[Conservativesux]

11. We need someone to defend us from the * gang, not Iraqi's. eom

[rainbow4321]

10. That's it...blame us parents...

Silly, horrible us, for trying to keep our kids from getting killed over shrub's oil greed and nation stealing, uh, building....

[Toucano]

14. I'm glad to see parents are stepping up. n/t

[lonestarnot]

20. Van Dooremat... Your parents are right! If you haven't signed ...don't do

it!

[ashling]

21. New Marine recruiting questions:

1. Shooting people is
a) Unfortunately sometimes necessary
b) the reality of war
c) fun!

2. Fighting and dying for your country is
a} a sacrifice made by a true patriot
b) the reality of war
c) a real hoot!

If you answered c on #1 and #2, you are in!

[TygrBright]

23. I don't think you know much about how Marines are trained.

Certainly, in the heat of combat there is a "rush" that can be equated to pleasure. But Marines (and, I am assuming, other servicemembers,) are warned strenuously against giving in to these feelings, as they will distract and deflect them from the quick, analytical thinking that is needed to stay alive on the battlefield.

And while it is difficult for ANY service to weed out all the bullies and trigger-happy twits from the ranks, they sincerely do NOT want them there in any numbers. The Marines, in particular, rely on a strong esprit de corps to make fighting units effective, and the personality type that thinks "Shooting people is fun," rarely functions well in that kind of team.

The Marines attempt to foster, above all, a professional attitude in their enlisted and officers. They become effective killers not because it is "fun," (which would make them sloppy and selfish,) but because the skill is required to get the job done, and make sure that their team gets back alive.

I do understand where people are coming from with the sarcasm and irony on this thread, and I fully agree that recruiting has gone to hell in a handbasket--a good recruiter's job is as much to discourage inappropriate enlistments as to facilitate appropriate ones. Obviously, someone at the Pentagon (and I bet I know who,) is ignoring this, and it's tainting the whole process.

My heart goes out to those who have suffered because of this situation.

But it's inappropriate to blame the servicemembers, or to imply that they enlist for all the wrong reasons.

disappointedly,
Bright

[tsuki]

24. Not according to a post from the fRight Wing county email that I

received today. It was a forward from a Brig Gen R. Clements USAF ret <[email protected]> to undisclosed key military. They are proud of Mattis' remarks and that the Marines back him against the media-noids.

I goggled and found a Brig Gen Bob Clements, USAF ret on counterclintonlibrary.com.

[ashling]

25. My post was directed at the remarks

made in San Diego by the Marine General (Mattis, I believe)

I am personally familiar with a Marine reservist who was called up when all of this got started. He was at Pendelton and was actually in fear for his own safety because he would not join in the "Kill, kill" chanting, etc. My wife was asked to contact our congressman at the time (he is a personal friend)

[saigon68]

26. I know a lot of these Wizards from a prior War

They are now in their late 50s and early 60s and truly fucked up.

[MrScorpio]

27. Let me give you guys the perspective of someone who served

I just retired after 22 years in the Air Force.

When it comes to Bush's agenda of world conquest, I didn't sign up for that shit.

Let me tell you, most of us didn't.

It's a fucked situation, because those who are forced to fight and die are the most powerless of all.

I chose to get out. A lot of others have done the same.

My biggest fear is for those who can't. A lot have and will die for for the greed, malfeasence and blood thirst of those who are in power today.

My biggest disappointment is that a lot of people wearing the uniform today do not realize what is going on.

My biggest hope is that the citizens of this country stand up to this madness and finally puts a stop to it. That's where to true power lies.

[Maguzzi]

28. and all this for what?

so some loser can drop a fake ballot in a tupperware bin.

[Knight of Ni]

30. Giving Bush and his cronies more troops...

...is like giving an alcoholic more booze.

[Voltaire99]

32. Well said, MrScorpio (n/t)