US Seeks Latin American Initiative on Venezuela

[Minstrel Boy]

US Seeks Latin American Initiative on Venezuela

Voice of America - 10 hours ago
By Bill Rodgers
Washington

A top State Department official says the United States wants to mobilize Latin American countries to deal with what the Bush administration considers to be Venezuela's threat to regional stability. The official spoke about Venezuela and other hemispheric issues on VOA's "Foro Interamericano" program, and in a separate English interview.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Roger Noriega says the rhetoric and actions of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez are undermining democracy in the South American nation, and posing a threat to Venezuela's neighbors. Mr. Noriega says the populist Venezuelan leader is centralizing power in the executive branch, and reaching out to groups that seek to overthrow democratically-elected governments.

...

Mr. Noriega says the Bush administration will seek to persuade Latin American countries that Venezuela poses a threat to hemispheric stability. However, he acknowledged such a consensus does not yet exist.

...

Mr. Noriega said Washington might seek to invoke the democracy charter of the Organization of American States that was signed in 2001, which calls for collective sanctions against presidents who seek to become de facto dictators.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-02-04-voa64.cfm

[VegasWolf]

1. more that georgie poses a threat to hemispheric stability. n/t

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. The cons need to realize one important thing... whenever you point a

finger at someone, you have three pointing right back at ya.... destabilizing... oh yeah, I remember what that is.... it's only destabilizing when someone else does it.... how convenient. Hypocrites.


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Dictators/Chile_Declassified.html

In September 28, 1973, seventeen days after the bloody coup that brought Gen. Augusto Pinochet to power, two Chilean military officers approached the US Embassy with a request: The new regime required "advisor assistance from a person qualified in establishing a detention center for detainees which they anticipate will be retained over a relatively long period of time."

In a secret cable to Washington, Ambassador Nathaniel Davis noted that detailing a US adviser to assist the protracted imprisonment of civilians more than 13,500 people had been detained for the crime of supporting the democratically elected government of Salvador Allende-"provides obvious political problems." However, he recommended, the State Department might "consider feasibility of material assistance in form of tents, blankets, etc. which need not be publicly and specifically earmarked for prisoners."

This cable was among some 5,800 US documents, many of them recording Washington's casual attitude toward the repression after the coup, declassified by the Clinton Administration on June 30 in response to pressure from Congress, Pinochet's victims and human rights groups. Totaling over 20,000 pages, the release, "Human Rights in Chile-Tranche One," is the first of several on the long-hidden history of the United States and Chile.

[VegasWolf]

4. Jeez, how nice of us. n/t

[burythehatchet]

3. Its going to be sooooooo sweet when nobody wants to play

with us anymore. Ever see the kid on the playground with the $200 basketball playing by himself cuz nobody wants to deal with him. Yeah.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. Ari on coup: "Now the situation will be one of tranquillity and democracy"

US Fingerprints on Venezuelan Coup

By Calvin Tucker
April 22, 2002

On Friday 12th of April, only hours after Venezuelan army generals had seized elected President Hugo Chavez and closed down parliament, the White House's official spokesman Ari Fleicher, declared triumphantly; "Now the situation will be one of tranquillity and democracy". But unknown to Fleicher, by the time the Bush regime's official seal of approval was to make it into print, the coup was already being defeated on the streets.

The US has now been forced to admit that a steady stream of business, military, and media leaders had been visiting their embassy in Caracas to discuss a possible coup. However, there is compelling evidence that US complicity went much further than giving a "nod and a wink" to the plotters.

For several months, the coup plotters had been making secret trips to the White House to meet with Elliot Abrams, the head of the National Security Council, and Otto Reich, the key policy maker for Latin America. Both men are veterans of Reagan's "dirty wars" of the Eighties and were linked to the death squads in Central America. Sources from the Organisation of American States confirmed to the Observer (21 April 2002) that, "the coup was discussed in some detail, right down to its timing and chances of success, which were deemed to be excellent."

White House visitors included coup leader Pedro Carmona, who was installed as head of the junta, and General Lucas Romero Rincon, head of the Venezuelan military, who met with Pentagon official Rogelio Pardo-Maurer, a former close associate of the US sponsored Contra forces in Nicaragua. Opposition legislators were also brought to Washington in recent months, including at least one delegation sponsored by the International Republican Institute, an integral part of the National Endowment for Democracy, long used by the CIA for covert operations abroad.

http://www.trinicenter.com/world/venez/calvin/tucker2.shtml

[DELUSIONAL]

6. The Caribbean-Latin American region feel that bush

is the destabilizing element in the region.

THEY remember that bush was behind the Venezuela coup and the Haiti coup. Although bush appears to believe because the leaders of this region are still talking to him that he has gotten away with two coups -- they are just being diplomatic (putting on a false face -- so as not to antagonize the regions chief bully).

Castro has far more respect than bush. In the Carib region they have a way of saying "bush" which conveys their complete disgust with him. Also, the locals have a strong tradition of music -- and bush's name and his politics are heard in the music -- but often in the local dialects.

[fedsron2us]

7. For once I believe Condi Rice

There are no immediate plans to attack Iran because the next target for US military intervention is Venezuela. Chavez oil deal with China means that there will be war before the year is out. Forget all that corporate crap about globalization because the new competing geopolitical power blocks are starting to form.

Edit for spelling

[leesa]

8. Guess what Bush...they know the US game and they ain't gonna fall

for it again.

Everyone in the world except the stupid Amerikans know Chavez is a democratically elected leader who is very popular throughout Latin America for standing up to the evil empire.

[VegasWolf]

9. funny how these threats only involve oil rich countries. n/t

[Carl Brennan]

51. Yep. A coincidence that should be repeated often and loudly.

[murray hill farm]

10. It will no longer work...the world manipulation by the USA

The world is not only on to the way the game is played by the USA. The world is no longer willing to play that distructive game...and the USA is no longer able to threaten effectively, because it no longer has the power to back it up. no more..it is over! The strange thing is that the USA doesnt seem to know this yet..and continues to behave as if it were the power it once was.

[bemildred]

11. Yes.

You have to wonder what part of "blow me" Noriega doesn't get.

The US continues the pretense because of the political consequences here
when the pretense is dropped.

[reprobate]

54. Interesting thought. Please elaborate on 'political consequences'.

[bemildred]

55. One can only speculate.

The point is simply that the American political power structure for the
last 100+ years, since the Spanish-American war, has been built on an
aggressive foreign policy, a policy of hegemony or empire. The whole
system is deeply enmeshed with the national security state and our
aggressive and interventionist foreign policy.

If this becomes infeasible as a political strategy domestically, it will
have broad political consequences. One could examine American political
life before the Civil War for clues, but times have changed so much that
I don't think that is much use. One fellow I talked to here drew a
comparison with Spain after we kicked their ass in the aforementioned
Spanish-American War. The Brits in the 60s and 70s when their Empire
collapsed could be considered too. And the collapse of the USSR had some
elements in common with what we are about to experience. But nobody
really knows.

But it seems clear enough that if our delusions of racial and cultural
superiority, and the myth of our invincible military are put paid to,
there will be serious consequences here at home.

[reprobate]

56. Yes. Invincible military. Cultural superiority. A cultural fall?

I had not considered the possible psychological consequences of the sudden removal of the underpinnings of our culture.

I agree that the basis of American power has been an aggressive imperialism, particularly toward the Spanish speaking world. Consider the fact that since 1890 we have invaded central and south American nations 52 times. That's boots on the ground for more than a week. And usually to aid or protect American corporate interests. According to Mussolini that's the definition of fascism; the fusion of state and corporate interests.

However, and not to put too fine a point on it, I think the concept of American Hegemony really came to be by the efforts of Dulles, Harriman, and the like after WWII as a result of the vast power vacuum. Were it not for that I think it would not have been possible.

In any case, we have had three generations grow up since then, enough to instill the idea of superiority in the culture. And this begs the question: What will be the psychological results of removing this crutch from the culture?

I think it has seemed to many of us that the American culture has been quite imbalanced for some time now. It occurs to me that at least some of the cultural schizophrenia we see today may be due to seeing the world's greatest military power brought to it's knees by what they think of as unorganized rabble.

Makes you wonder what the results will be of not only military imperialism, but economic power as well disappearing. Is it possible for a culture to go insane? I don't know, but it looks like the experiment has begun. Be sure to take notes.

[bemildred]

59. Yes.

Cultures go nuts all the time, or are nuts. The notion that cultures
and societies are "intelligent" and "sane" in the way that individuals
are does not stand up to examination, in my opinion. I don't think
there is a human society on the planet that is even as smart as my cat.

[reprobate]

60. Ah ha! a cat person. That's ok. Cat people and Dog people can get along

At least on DU they can. Besides, I'm only a non-cat person until I find another Siamese kitten.

[bemildred]

61. I'm equal opportunity about pets.

I'd like a dog to take on walks, but conditions are not right yet.
The cat is really my wifes, but we share. If I got a dog, it would
have to be a puppy and given proper guidance about the cat, and I'm
not ready to make the commitment of time and energy yet. I still have
an adolescent son and he sucks up a lot. Good luck with the Siamese.

[ckramer]

12. Is Bush going to invade Venezuela?

[murray hill farm]

14. He wont dare to do it!

Chavez has recently stated that even an attack on Iran will be seen as an attack on Venezuala....i am sure also that an attack on Venezuela will be seen as an attack on Iran, China and Russia..any new attack anywhere by Bush will be the end of Bush..the world will not tolerate it.

[0rganism]

34. Who's gonna stop him? Really, bush could care less about tolerance

Until "the world" develops a functional coalition of resistance to US imperialism, bush is pretty much free to do whatever he wants. That much has proven to be true so far, and I see nothing to indicate a change of course.

[murray hill farm]

37. The world is doing just that...

developing very functional coalitions to free themselves from economic dependence on the USA...it is happening and it is happening quickly...and the USA is getting quickly left out as these coalitions are forged. While the usa is ignoring this...and waving its old stick, they are also going broke...and more in debt every day.

[0rganism]

38. Economic independence is not enough.

bush and his cohorts couldn't give a rat's ass about whether other countries consider themselves free from economic dependence on the USA. This new plan is not about developing mildly-exploitative trade relationships. bushco builds its fortunes the old-fashioned way: annexation.

Think the debt is a deterrant to bush? Think again. The more debt the merrier, from his point of view. Our national debt, other than that untraded portion which is dedicated to Social Security, is owed by the people of this country to investment bankers and international capitalists. Do you honestly think bush minds if our grandkids are paying back the Bilderbergers for a few extra cruise missiles? Heck, when it comes right down to it, the American electorate is happy to sell off our national parks to China and Saudi Arabia as long as it doesn't stop us from kickin' brown ass.

The big mistake the rest of the world appears to be making is supposing that our current leadership is willing to play by the Clinton-era rules where we at least pretended to give a crap about things like respecting borders and detente and sincere negotiations. The bushies have figured out how to make the old ways look like the new way, and all that honorable forebearance crap is for suckers and chumps as far as they're concerned. They'll give just enough lip service to use in building their talking points for the propaganda machine known as mass media. Meanwhile, the contracts for additional JDAMs are already on the way to Lockheed-Martin.

We've underestimated bush from the beginning. We took him to be a disinterested moron, and he used that image to his considerable advantage. bush is a dedicated fighter for his cause: the return of the aristocracy and the furtherance of global feudalism. There is one and only one way that the rest of the world can defeat the bush faction as fueled by the American people: force of arms. We must be drawn out into costly land wars across the globe, our military stretched thin, our belligerance and will-to-fight exhausted to the point where the gravity of our situation can no longer be ignored by the apathetic. Anything else will be disregarded, or used as further fuel for the land-grab disguised as "liberating the oppressed."

[murray hill farm]

43. i am not saying that bushbrain wouldn't do it....

he would...that is why he is rattling his swords, but is he willing to start world war III, because that is just what it will be. It is past the point where he can do that to the world...when i say they wont tolerate it, i mean they wont tolerate it in the sense that they will not allow it to happen. Maybe he could do some first strike somewhere, but then the USA will get struck back and hard. The rest of the world has just had it..had their fill of American empirialism...and no..the USA is not the power it once was..just how would he go to war...where will the soldiers come from..a draft..he might try that...but it will be to few and too late for any war he is threatening right now. The world knows this...could he do nuclear? If he does that..or if you think he will...better start digging those shelters now...because if he does...it will come right back at him. The USA has been the super power for so long..it is understandable to believe if you are an American that this is how it was, and this is how it is..and this is how it will always be..it is almost impossible to comprehend that this is no longer so..but that is denial...and it is the position of bushbrain and of condi rice..as they threaten..dance the bully dance for the world..and continue to act as if they rule the world just like they always have...but it just isn't so.

[0rganism]

48. He would, and he will if he thinks it can be successfully marketed

Is he willing to start WWIII? I think he's already answered that question, both by his actions and his words. As long as it stands a chance of either profit or consolidation of his power base, it is not only on the list of options, it's near the top.

If you think the rest of the world will oppose America militarily in any kind of organized unified way, you're seeing something different than what I've observed so far. I'll believe it the day NATO kicks out the USA, or all the member nations opt out and leave us dangling.

Where will the soldiers come from? I'll tell you: the Air Force and the Navy, for starters. Even though the Marines and Army are down in recruitment, the other two branches are over quota. So the first thing bushco does is demand a "rebalancing" of forces to transfer some of the support units to ground tactical -- maybe even a forced transfer of service branches. Then we move on to mandatory post-high-school service, whether in the military or the paramilitary (Coast Guard, Nat'l Guard) or in munitions factories or working for "approved" private logistics contractors (Halliburton, KBR, Bechtel, etcetera). If that's not enough, he hits the prisons for additional conscripts. We have millions of people in prison, just waiting to be used as a forced conscription base.

Fear of reprisal will likely keep the major nuclear powers from escalating, and a minor nuclear attack from a country like North Korea would be all the excuse bushco needs to go to a full-on draft -- after completely obliterating a few major population centers in the attacking country/ies. Note that whether or not bushco retaliates against the actual attacker is immaterial; any country or group of countries can be arbitrarily blamed, at his convenience.

The bully act will continue to work until it is actively rejected: directly, globally, and militarily.

[robertpaulsen]

39. Hey mexicoxpat, do you have a link for that Chavez quote...

about an attack on Iran being seen by him as an attack on Venezuela?

You gotta love this guy. Anyone who calls Bush an asshole and Condoleeza Rice an illiterate is OK by me. But I fear if he said an attack on Iran would be considered an attack on Venezuela, he will fill the opening left by Iraq on the Axis of Evil list.

[murray hill farm]

41. I read it on the site that is...

The "From the Wilderness" publication home page...i am sorry i dont have the link, but it might be www.fromthewilderness.com so try that one...it was the free articles too..so you dont have to join to read them....lots of good article there. I really recommend it.

[robertpaulsen]

42. I found the link. Lots of great articles!

Not a direct quote, but a good analysis by Michael Ruppert:

In short, what this says is that Hugo Chavez is literally daring the US to invade Venezuela. What's more, he is nearing the point of declaring a mutual defense pact which may not be far off. Given his recent sexual taunts of Condoleezza Rice (Chavez called her "an illiterate" who "seems to dream about me"), and his widely publicized world travel, such a move is not inconceivable.

In other words: If the US attacks Iran, Venezuela will also consider itself attacked and that a state of war will exist. When and if that declaration occurs it will be considered one of the final moves before open warfare begins; or before somebody backs down.

Note that Iran is Venezuela's closest partner in OPEC. Note also that Nigeria, which recently received Iranian President al Khatami, has just announced that it is signing deals with ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco. This, even after Nigeria hinted that it was also doing deals with Iran and China. What the Nigerian government is doing is anybody's guess, but it is not unfair to suspect that they are getting all the money they can get as quickly as possible and that very little of it will actually benefit the Nigerian people. Who winds up with Nigeria's oil may be decided by bloodshed in many countries. -- MCR]

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/020405_venezuela_oil.shtml#1

Thanks!

[murray hill farm]

44. yep!!!

Times they are a changing!!

[sarahlee]

57. I think I read somewhere

as well, that the Venezualian/China oil deal would provide for China's ships to do the transport, so that if the US wanted to try to stop them, they would in essence be attacking China. I thought that was pretty durn crafty.

We might think we could mess with Chavez, but are we really willing to mess with China that way?

[burrowowl]

13. Is Roger Noriega

related to the former Bu$h guy in Panama.

[bemildred]

18. No, it is a common name. nt

[booley]

15. Did Noriega give other countries a way to sanction the US?

admittedly I am not to eager to have such a thing happen. I think some of you are forgettign that whatever harm ocurs to the Shrubbery and the corporate class, it will hit us first and much harder. A good part of why this admin can do al the crappy things it does is becuase they are insulated from the consequences.

Anyway, have you guys noticed this part fo the story?

"Mr. Noriega said Washington might seek to invoke the democracy charter of the Organization of American States that was signed in 2001, which calls for collective sanctions against presidents who seek to become de facto dictators."

My question is, since shrub definantly qualifies as a de facto dictator, what if the this clause was invoked against the US?

Probably unlikely considering how important the US still is to the economies of many nations. Not to mention the real dictators in South America are generally under the US's thumb. But still.....

[High Plains]

16. They see Chavez as a threat

Because he is openly leftist; he called for a socialist alternative at the World Social Forum in Porto Alegre last week...

Because he threatens their imperial project next door in Colombia; there has been a huge diplomatic fight between the two ever since the Colombians kidnapped an exiled FARC leader from Caracas in December...

Because he dares to conduct an independent foreign policy and talk to people of whom the US does not approve...

Because he is actually undertaking land reform and expropriating some haciendas belonging to the rich...

Because he calls for Latin American solidarity in the face of the Colossus of the North...

And, oh yeah, because Venezuela is sitting on a bunch of oil...

The campaign of demonization against Chavez has been going on for years. I recall seeing a full-page ad in the Washington Times several years ago that showed photos of Chavez meeting with Saddam and the Iranian mullahs. It was supposed to be evidence of some international terrorist conspiracy from hell; they were actually photos taken when Chavez, in his capacity of OPEC leader, visited other OPEC members. Just wait for Steve Forbes to pop up on Fox News and tell you Chavez is "crazy."...

[bemildred]

17. And the disobedient must be punished.

What is power, after all, but the ability to punish the disobedient?

[Supersedeas]

58. a regional threat....and a threat to democracy, freedom, and liberty

you know--the panoply of vagaries contained within a generic threat.

[peacetalksforall]

65. We are on the brink of a corporate war against the little people.

Chavez appears to be sincere and active in sharing with the little people. This is a move that cannot catch on - with the corporations - who are the politicians, intelligence, banking, and the military combined. They will do each others work to keep corporate over the little people and to make it tight to the point beyond slavery.

We have been the imperialists for decades by squeezing these Western Hemisphere countries dry with the loans, debt, interest, and the rugs that have been pulled out from under them and the nearly quiet massacres.

They are all learning from each other. It will be very difficult to create a new coalition of the WH hemisphere countries unless this cabal has some new tricks up their sleeves.

PS I cringe when I read peoples' words saying Bush will do this, do that. He is a front man. His words are from others. His timing is from others. His emphasis is from others. His arrogance is from others, plus his spoiled kid ego and sinister heart. He is not a strategist. He is a front man. They must work hard to get him to understand the plan. Once he does, they make him think he thought it up AND/OR they pump him up so that he believes and acts like he did. What he personally owns is the betrayal and revenge part of it when someone or some country stands up to him. That is his perk of the job. Giving him the credit is to change the reality about who is strategizing and conniving. How can a person who cannot speak and has to have words fed to him be the creator of all these plans?

Back to the Rice's non-negotiatiable Venezuela attack - have you considered that he will conscript illegal aliens and green card holders who speak Spanish?

I've always thought the sequence that they would attempt would be Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba. Just remember, words coming from the mouth of Rice are voodoo.

[Judi Lynn]

67. Your idea of Bush's next victems could so easily be true.

I've believed from the very first that he thoroughly WANTS to spill Latin American blood before leaving office. Latin America has always been such a shooting gallery for right-wing Presidents: a whole lot of fun to be had there. So many poor people, there are always very unhappy, discontented, "leftists" to kill for the blood-lusting goblins among us. Apparently it's as easy as pie when people are a different color and speak a different language from the people doing the plotting! They don't give it a second thought, with conscience intact, or they couldn't do it.

I'd like to post this remark by U.S. Marine General, not because you haven't read it, but in hopes someone who has never seen it will find it as wrenching as I did:

He had started letting loose before retirement. In August 1931, according to Jules Archer, he used the "racketeer for capitalism" epigram that appeared variously in his speeches and writings thereafter. Most frequently cited was the 1935 Common Sense article:

"I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purifly Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-12. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested... . Looking back on it, I feel I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three city districts. We Marines operated on three continents."

In January 1932, Nation reported him characterizing the U.S. military as "a glorified bill-collecting agency" and saying he "wouldn't want to see a boy of mine march out with a Wall Street collar about his neck."
(snip/...)

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/butler01-by_schmidt.html

Also, from the same source, a story concerning Mussolini, as forwarded to us through Samuel Butler, which portrays the spirit I believe I see in the lives of our most prominent profit-at-all-costs Republicans:

After the Mussolini affair Butler announced his retirement and set out on a lecture tour, with half his earnings committed to Philadelphia unemployment relief.

Editor's Note: The "Mussolini affair" refers to an incident when during a speech on January 19, 1931, General Butler recounted a story told to him by journalist Cornelius Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt had been in a car with Benito Mussolini when they ran over and killed a young boy who was crossing the street. Mussolini told the driver to continue driving and that the boy's life was insignificant. Mussolini and his government were at the time being widely praised by all of the mainstream U.S. media, and the American elite generally. They considered Mussolini's Italy to be a great model which the the U.S. should follow. They particularly admired his efforts to crush labour unions and communism. When General Butler denounced Mussolini for this hit-and-run incident, the U.S. Army began courtmarshall proceedings against Butler. F.D. Roosevelt (who would later become President) was among those who came to Butler's defence. The court-marshall charges against Butler were were eventually dropped.
(snip)

http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/butler01-by_schmidt.html

[peacetalksforall]

68. I didn't know either story so thanks. The insight of looking back and

realizing the UN-reality we have lived under is amazing. We cannot continue to be so stupid, gullible, and blind.

I also find it amazing that they can be so brazen. They know that many more people in this decade know what they're trying to do and they plow ahead with urgency and predatory balls.

I'm going to change my footnote back to:

Wake up! Stay awake! Wake others!

Thanks for sharing.

God help Iran, Syria, Venezuela, and Cuba. God help the Iraqis and the Haitians. Two model disasters.

[poe]

19. sometimes i look at the map....

and i can't find the US it use to be right in the center.

[proudbluestater]

20. US- we only support democracies that operate within our best interests

[EFerrari]

21. Venezuela, our new Nicaragua

Bush is screwing with the wrong people. Latin America hasn't forgoten the torture exports, the death squads or the election manipulation.

[Judi Lynn]

22. It's good to know that Brazil, Argentina, and Chile are all investigating

charges which have been surpressed these decades concerning atrocities committed by the right-wing, U.S.-supported genocidal regimes.

It looks as if they've been able to get something going, after having labored under the iron fists of right-wing U.S. puppets who inhibited opening the records until very recently.

Three very large countries. Hope they create a powerful united front.

[EFerrari]

23. Hey, Judi

At the height of IranContra, I was an undergrad at Berkeley. And my husband was at Hayward State. One of his profs, Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz, announced that she needed a Spanish to English translation immediately as she had to go to Washington and testify before Congress.

She was interested in proving that the Sandinista government was indeed holding negotiations with the "contras". If she could do that, Congressional funding for messing with Nicaragua would dry up -- the Contragate guys said the Sandinistas refused to negotiate. Which was crap.

So, he brought her tapes home to me and I stayed up all night transcribing and translating about eight hours of negotiations that had been recorded in the jungle and also in Managua. We got the transcript back to Roxanne and she flew to Washington.

They didn't let her testify. Moonies did the "expert" witnessing. Moonies.

And Moonies and all, I'd trade the Bu$h Cabal anyday for Reagan.

[Judi Lynn]

27. You have to wonder who was involved in curtailing her testimony,

don't you? It's not a total surprise to you now, after having seen how much respect the right-wing has for the truth, but you probably had a lot of hope back then...

We were all so wildly misinformed. It was deliberate, of course, due to the efforts of people like Otto Reich, working away in the Office of Public Diplomacy in the State Department. What we knew had no resemblance to the truth, whatsoever.

It's heartbreaking having to start from scratch, trying to find out what happened after the destruction of so many lives, DECADES after it happened. What they must think of this country after our right-wing lunatics got through with them!

Found a helpful account for anyone (myself, to start with) who's interested in starting to get boned up on what really happened in Nicaragua. This one is from Nicaragua 1981-1990
Destabilization in slow motion
excerpted from the book
Killing Hope
by William Blum :

US and "Honduran" reconnaissance planes, usually piloted by Americans, began regular overflights into Nicaragua to photograph bombing and sabotage targets, track Sandinista military maneuvers and equipment, spot the planting of mines, eavesdrop on military communications and map the terrain. Electronic surveillance ships off the coast of Nicaragua partook in the bugging of a nation. Said a former CIA analyst: "Our intelligence from Nicaragua is so good ... we can hear the toilets flush in Managua."
Meanwhile, American pilots were flying diverse kinds of combat missions against Nicaraguan troops and carrying supplies to contras inside Nicaraguan territory. Several were shot down and killed.' Some flew in civilian clothes, after having been told that they would be disavowed by the Pentagon if captured. Some contras told American congressmen that they were ordered to claim responsibility for a bombing raid organized by the CIA and flown by Agency mercenaries. Honduran troops as well were trained by the US for bloody hit-and-run operations into Nicaragua ... and so it went ... as in El Salvador, the full extent of American involvement in the fighting will never be known.
The contras' brutality earned them a wide notoriety. They regularly destroyed health centers, schools, agricultural cooperatives, and community centers-symbols of the Sandinistas' social programs in rural areas. People caught in these assaults were often tortured and killed in the most gruesome ways. One example, reported by The Guardian of London, suffices. In the words of a survivor of a raid in Jinotega province, which borders on Honduras:
"Rosa had her breasts cut off. Then they cut into her chest and took out her heart. The men had their arms broken, their testicles cut off, and their eyes poked out They were killed by slitting their throats and pulling the tongue out through the slit."
Americas Watch, the human-rights organization, concluded that "the contras systematically engage in violent abuses ... so prevalent that these may be said to be their principal means of waging war."
In November 1984, the Nicaraguan government announced that since 1981 the contras had assassinated 910 state officials and killed 8,000 civilians.
(snip/...)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Nicaragua_KH.html

[IndianaGreen]

24. America is the only threat to regional stability in Latin America

The USA loves despots like Pinochet and the Somoza family, and they hate democratically elected leaders like Allende and Chavez.

We need regime change here, in the so-called "Land of the Free"!

[JetCityLiberal]

66. America is now a threat to the world

and it is sickening.

JetCityLiberal

[The Magistrate]

25. It Would Be An Interesting Meeting, Sir

One that likely would turn out very differently than the current administration here would prefer....

"There are two Spains: one that works, and one that eats."

[bemildred]

26. Well, the thing is it's not new.

This is the recycling of an already failed tactic.
Several attempts to attack Chavez via the OAS and our
little buddy in Colombia have already been made, and
each went nowhere promptly. This is a sign of mental
bankruptcy, cognitive failure to engage, disfunctional
"planning". One thinks of Enron and it's "management".

[Judi Lynn]

28. Bush's administration doesn't have the patience to do things the right way

Making demands, issuing threats, buying mercenaries, bribing people inside Venezuela is just about their full range of diplomatic talents, beyond the coup, and the strike by businesses (against the workers).

It'll be a miracle now if Chavez escapes future assassination attempts and filthy _Bush manipulation of Alvaro Uribe and his highly indulged paramilitaries, and makes it through his elected term. More power to that man. He deserves every chance _Bush has stolen for himself. Chavez was clearly elected.

[bemildred]

30. Exactamundo.

My money is on Hugo, for what it's worth.
He will dance on their graves.

[bobthedrummer]

29. Hugo Chavez has opened his country to progressives everywhere

he even offers sanctuary to oppressed people. Hugo Chavez fought back at a CIA coup against him to regain leadership of his country.
I'd consider moving there despite language differences.

[Judi Lynn]

31. DU Venezuela watchers might wonder what this is all about....

Last Updated: Friday, 4 February, 2005, 14:53 GMT



Uribe illness delays crisis talks

Relations between the two countries came under severe strain
Colombian President Alvaro Uribe has cancelled trips to Venezuela and three European countries after being taken to hospital with an ear infection.
Mr Uribe had been due to meet Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Thursday to resolve a diplomatic row.

But Colombian officials said he would now be unable to travel to Caracas or to visit Spain, France and Belgium.

Venezuela froze links with Colombia after it hired mercenaries to capture a rebel chief on Venezuelan soil.
(snip/...)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4236791.stm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This _Bush puppet suddenly isn't going to be able to keep that appointment to reconcile differences about the violation of Venezuela's sovereignty, a date which had been arranged probably a couple of weeks ago.

Too bad _Bush won't keep his nose out of things which surely don't involve him.

[bemildred]

32. Yeah, I was wondering about that.

Sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop there (I mean, he could be sick?)

My present assumption is that his colonial masters jerked his chain taut.

[Judi Lynn]

33. I agree. His business with Chavez is so serious, you'd think he'd get

right on it, short of a severe health problem.

Uribe's a worm, and a vicious one, but he's OUR handsomely rewarded, lavishly-bought-at-great-taxpayer-expense worm. It's still hard to believe Colombia is second only to Israel in foreign aid, isn't it?

On edit, adding photos:



Rumsfeld and Alvaro Uribe

Bush and Ricky Martin

[bemildred]

35. Money down a rathole: "Plan Colombia".

I was just wondering what Uribe thought he was doing "settling" the dispute?
Did he think he was going to get away with that?
Is it part of some deep "plan"?

It was just looks odd to have all these "the dispute is over" stories
and then this sudden unexplained "never mind" story that gets almost
no coverage.

[Judi Lynn]

36. He has probably been chastised: Bush jerked the leash.

Not long before the kidnapping of the rebel in Venezuela, Chavez and Uribe seemed to be getting organized about building a pipeline to deliver oil to the coast to send to China.



Bet that had someone pitching fits in the White House. They forgot to beg _Bush's permission.

[Carl Brennan]

50. Wasn't it pretty much concluded

that Uribe and Chavez settled their differences? Seems I remember seeing that.

[robertpaulsen]

40. "sanctions against presidents who seek to become de facto dictators."

Doesn't sound like Chavez to me. Did he have Diebold and Sequoia pull any strings last time he had an election?

[AP]

45. Seriously. What a curious way to "seek" becoming a dictator:

by winning election after election and surviving coup attempts by fascists.

[Kimber Scott]

46. Can we, please, take care of our own country? George Bush brings

out the isolationist in me and I'm not even an isolationist.

[bemildred]

47. Isolationism is good.

If we weren't meddling with Iraq we would have hundreds of billions
of dollars freed up to spend on ourselves, you know, health care,
education, jobs, social security, boring selfish stuff like that.

[Carl Brennan]

49. Oh shit! Are they trying to

form another coalition of the bribed to fight this new "War" with Venezuela?

Like they did to get the war on in Iraq.

Let's see if any countries flip-flop and join it after getting some special little favors and payola from the reptilian Bush FASCISTS.

[Robbien]

52. Don't worry. They told Bush to butt out.

Venezuela Analysis <http://www.venezuelaanalysis.org> reported on January 23 that the US government, in a clear attempt to derail Chavez’s attempts for Latin American unity, sent a letter to South American nations asking them to apply diplomatic pressure on Venezuela for its allegedly soft stance on terrorism. However, the Andean Community responded with a request for the US to stay out of the dispute. Even former Colombian ambassador to Venezuela, German Bular Escobar, stated that US comments were not helpful, according to a January 27 Venezuela Analysis article.

In Venezuela, hundreds of thousands of people marched through Caracas on January 23 calling for respect for Venezuelan sovereignty.

[Carl Brennan]

53. Whoa. That's good news

Man that is weird, but a good weird. Bush's bumbling Iraq has probably reduced everyone's confidence in him, hee, hee.

Thanks for the link.

[Vladimir]

62. As Disraeli said...

an agreeable person, sir, is one who agrees with me.

[Judi Lynn]

63. A few interesting points made in this article from Sunday.....

Published: Sunday, February 06, 2005
Bylined to: Bob Chapman


Mr. Bush has decided to destroy Venezuela and its democratic government

THE INTERNATIONAL FORECASTER editor Bob Chapman writes: The final stroke will come this year when President Chavez switches to the Petro-Euro, or creates a Latin American currency. In as much as the US is preparing Colombia to invade Venezuela, the faster Mr. Chavez acts the better.

A good time to make the switch would be in June when Iran opens their oil exchange, which we understand will trade oil in dollars and euros. At that point, we believe it would be too late for the US-Colombia to invade either Iran or Venezuela. They could well bring on nuclear war with China and Russia.

Mr. Bush is playing chicken with both countries, and we can assure you China and Russia will call Mr. Bush’s bluff.
(snip)

Venezuela may get a little unexpected help ... Warren Buffett and Bill Gates are shorting the dollar and central banks have been shifting out of dollars and will continue to do so for financial preservation.
(snip/...)

http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=25556

(This may be a registration only site. (Can't remember.))

[paineinthearse]

64. On becoming a de facto dictator....

"Mr. Noriega said Washington might seek to invoke the democracy charter of the Organization of American States that was signed in 2001, which calls for collective sanctions against presidents who seek to become de facto dictators."

Wonder if this is reciprocal and other OAS countries could sanction the US for being a dictatorship?