Canada Geese Falling Out of the Sky in Oregon

[Minstrel Boy]

Canada Geese Falling Out of the Sky in Oregon

Geese are literally falling from the sky in and around Keizer, and wildlife experts don't know why.

February 4, 2005

About 150 Canada geese were found dead Friday at a private pond off Wheatland Road owned by Morse Bros. Rock Products in rural Marion County. 30 or so other dead birds were discovered 3 months ago near Staats Lake, a private lake in Keizer.

Wildlife officials said that in recent weeks, large numbers of dead geese also have been found in Monmouth and McMinnville. They don't know if the incidents are related.

...

All three areas (Keizer, Manmouth, and McMinnville) are in the vicinity of Salem Oregon. Since the geese have been dying over an extended time period and extended region, infectious disease can't be ruled out. Canada geese falling out of the sky sounds remarkably like the pigeons falling out of the sky in Thailand and the suggestion of avian cholera sounds like the dead ducks in Vietnam.

The areas of the dead geese are relatively close to Vancouver, Canada, where there was an outbreak of H7N3 avian influenza last season.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02040504/Canada_Geese_Falling.html

[SpiralHawk]

1. Some elders say that's a sign to watch for

I first heard different Native elders talking about this sign -- birds dropping from the air -- back in the 1960s. They waid to watch for when that happened. They said it would be mean the earth changes were in full swing in this time of transition, and to remember each our responsibilities.

To my knowledge, the "birds dropping from the sky" penomenon first started happening in Mexico City about 15-20 years ago. Birds were just dropping out of the sky. The cause was pollution then. The story got just a few blips in the news cycle, then disappeared.

Here's a link one take on the birds falling from the sky phenomenon/sign, courtesy of the traditional elders of Turtle Island, our North American Continent, as given voice by Lee Brown

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/atlas.htm

"We must live in harmony with the Natural World and recognize that excessive exploitation can only lead to our own destruction. We cannot trade the welfare of our future generations for profit now. We must abide by the Natural Law or be victims of its ultimate reality. "
- Traditional Chief Leon Shenandoah, Haudenausenee

[papau]

2. Sad, serious, wise - and something that will not get legs in the media

as it goes against GOP policies.

Thanks for posting

:-(

[shadowknows69]

3. If I'm gonna believe anyone who says we're in deep doo doo

It's going to be a Native American. The whole world will rue the days we decided to slaughter this people instead of befriending them and learning from them. I also heard something recently (tinfoil time) about the Australian Aborigines in some circles have chosen to stop having children because we near the end of all things. Anyone else hear about this?

[SpiralHawk]

4. Nope - Have not heard of Aborigine abstinence move

Sounds dubious to me. Will check around.

[shadowknows69]

5. from what I heard

I think it was mainly among their spiritual leaders. I remeber seeing a documentary on Aboriginal mysticism in an anthropology class I took that stated that a lot of the old sacred burial rites and shamanistic teachings were about to be lost when the current group of elders died because of increasing apathy among the younger "modern world" Aboriginies concerning learning the old ways. Sad if true.

[smiley]

66. I think the decision to bo longer bear chidren

is responsible and ecological. I feel there are way to many humans walking around? Overpopulation of the human species is the greatest threat facing the planet.....and yet we keep poppin kids out like it's our god given right... some would say.

you feed the hungry only to create more hungry mouths


ISMAEL is also an excellent book which talks about the the arrogance and consumption of the human animal. Some would think we as humans walk this planet alone. All life is sacred and should be treated that way.

death and nothingness shouldn't be feared

[mtnester]

6. From the book "Mutant Message Down Under"

Written by Marlo Morgan, 1994. In her notes from the Author to the reader, she states the book was based on actual experience but written as a novel to protect the particular Aboriginal tribes.

On page 147, some spiritual revelations were made by the tribe to the author. As stated:

"We, the tribe of Divine Oneness Real People, are leaving planet Earth. In our remaining time we have elected to live the highest level of spiritual life: celibacy, a way to demonstrate physical discipline. We are having no more children. When our youngest is gone, that will be the last of the pure human race...."

If you go on to read this tribal revelation, they talk about the people of the world giving away part of the soul of the land, and how the tribe will be going to join it in the sky. They also say they are leaving Mother Earth to us, and they pray we will see what our way is doing to the water, the animals, the air and each other. They also pray we will find a solution to our problems without destroying this world. With enough focus, there is time to reverse the destruction of the planet, but they can no longer help us. Their time is up. Already the rain pattern has changed, the heat has increased and they have seen plant and animal reproduction lessened.

This novel is about a very remote tribe. These people know what they speak of. It is a very powerful book, one that I read and reread constantly. It is also written very basically, describing the authors surprise dreamwalk arranged by the tribe.

Isolated and remote Aboriginals warning of dire planetary changes in 1994.

[rayofreason]

86. End Time

Don't know about the end time, but remember that flu in birds is a lower intestinal disorder, and that a virus that jumped to humans from birds killed tens of millions of the former in 1918.

[pandemic_1918]

97. Asymptomatic Ducks with H5N1

Many of the ducks in Vietnam are asymptomatic, but the H5N1 virus they excrete kills over 70% of the people infected (including young adults) and the virus is excreted at high levels and is unusually stable.

That is why there is so much concern in Vietnam right now

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01070502/Asymptomatic_Ducks_Vietnam.html

[pandemic_1918]

7. Pigeons Falling Out of The Sky In Thailand

The Canada geese in Oregon sound like the pigeons falling out of the sky in Thailand

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11190401/H5N1_pigeons.html

Thailand has also had a large number of wild birds falling over dead more recently

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02040502/More_Wild_Birds.html

If the Canada geese are positive for bird flu, the story won't get legs, it will get wings.

[Just Me]

25. Last summer, there were patches of hundreds of dead birds in WV,...

,...and, if I recall correctly, many states across this nation.

I remember coming across an area and feeling quite spooked by it. I worry that, whatever is killing these birds may mutate and kill more than the birds.

:scared:

[Demeter]

41. That could have been the West Nile Disease

which was coming via immigrants to horses and then birds and people. Once the horses were vaccinated, the bird and people infections declined.

[Kool Kitty]

102. If you want to read a really

frightening account of the West Nile virus and how it got started in this country, read "Lab 257". (I have to look up the author, I have forgotten his name, it may be William Carroll, but like I said, I have to look it up.) It tells about the infamous animal virus lab on Plum Island, in the Long Island sound. More than a few chapters in the book talk about West Nile and Lyme disease, which seem to have leaked out of the poorly managed and poorly regulated lab. Scary stuff.

[xxqqqzme]

44. I was traveling by train

thru the Cumberland gap recently and I was struck @ the absence of bird's nests always visible in winter trees. We would go 4 miles B4 I saw a nest. When I did finally see a couple I felt so relieved. The nests were few and far Btween.

[nashville_brook]

93. birds were falling out of the sky in Unicoi County, TN 1995-6

Erwin TN near the border of NC near Asheville.

[Lizzie Borden]

54. God forbid please.

I sometimes think we are the only species dumb enough to make our environment unlivable and intelligent to know that at the same time.

[AuntiBush]

100. One can't live in fear,

of things we can no longer change. Sadly, it is none of our faults when we lived peacfully amid the evil-doers.

I too am Native American directly in more than several direct lineal ways.

Sometimes, the beliefs that have been nurtured within me are all I have left these days to get me through some pretty mind-chilling nights. As a child, I somehow knew I'd lived to see what is happening, but do not wish for it. No... it is scary. Oddly, don't the richest of the rich, and the evil world's powers (Bushitz/Rove/Etc., don't they at the very least want to hang around to enjoy all that power, and money, much less love their children. Just don't get it.

[shanti]

104. well

cheney had a bunker built on his property. maybe he knows something we don't.

[Lorien]

43. China had sparrows falling out of the sky last year

toxins were suspected, but nobody knew for certain what was killing them. It would be more than worthwhile to find out, though.

[pandemic_1918]

48. Canada Geese Falling Out of Sky in Oregon Not Toxins

There were 3 distinct locations on Oregon where the dead Canada geese were found. The areas were too spread out to be linked to a toxin. An infectious agent is the likely cause of the bird deaths.

[Karenina]

9. Thanks for the link, SpiralHawk!

:wow:

[kohodog]

18. great post

inspired me to finally buy "The Wisdom Keepers" on Amazon. I want to find the text to Leon Shenondoah's speect to the UN. Anyone have a link?

[greenmutha]

46. Leon Shenandoah's speech to the UN here:

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/atlas.htm

(Scroll down almost to the bottom of the page.)

[rodeodance]

37. nice memo-thanks

[mordarlar]

40. I have been reading about the Hopi and Sioux end times prophies.

Looks like environmentally we are right there. Interesting how so many "unrelated" groups are speaking of the same events. Lots of water, a famine and a bomb. : /

[progressoid]

76. Interesting - I heard John Perkins say that he's been hearing

many prophecies about this being a turning point in history. This comes from many different indigenous groups around the globe. He implied it may not necessarily be a bad transition however, if we take charge and make a difference.

He's the author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman"

[poe]

88. just want to say thank you for your post

the white western habit of mind can not listen. kita. nature is the law and one would do well to live in accordance with this.

[ClayZ]

110. Another take: Birds falling from the skies

The Balkan Bird Goddess
Birds falling from the skies
by Danica Anderson

As the birds rain down from the skies with all matter of birth defects and diseases, scientific observations are muted and do not seem to advocate for feathered friends, who are the little witches of the skies and trees.

>snip<
Danica Anderson was trained as a forensic psychologist. On rediscovering her Balkan roots, she has done incredible work with Bosnian women in the setting of the sacred kolo -- the women's circle.

<snip>
http://www.awakenedwoman.com/danica_birds.htm

[ConcernedCanuk]

8. Running out of oxygen, could it be that simple?

.
.
.

That migration consumes a tremendous amount of energy for these birds, which "feast" sort of before their long journey south.

All our automobiles, industry and other pollutants surely are reducing the amount of oxygen the birds are inhaling on this exhausting journey.

Of course, a disease would be more acceptable to the GOP and those that have declined to agressively reduce emissions and pollutants

Imagine what the 150+ Billion USD that has been used slaughtering and contaminating innocent people could have done to help the Environment??

nope. we won't hear the truth from the "mainstream" media if pollution is indeed the culprit, which gets MY vote with no reservations.

a weird disease would be much more acceptable

(sigh)

[Boomer]

11. Close but no cigar

In other parts of the world, pollution from a nearby factory suddenly venting a particularly toxic emmission, or just generally bad air quality, are definitely causes.

That's far less likely to be the case in Oregon, so I vote for a noxious gas cloud burped up from a nearby volcano. The unlucky birds who fly through that cloud would probably die immediately.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. I used to live in that area

:scared:

There are no volcanoes in the Keizer-Salem-McMinnville area. They're all farther west.

Salem is a small city with no major pollutants except for pulp mills that have been there forever. Keizer is basically a suburb of Salem. McMinnville is rural, and while you get huge clouds of smoke when they burn the fields for the grass seed industry, there's nothing toxic around there that hasn't been there a long time. The Archway Cookie factory? I don't think so. Monmouth is tiny and has nothing but a state college.

This is scary.

[Boomer]

72. West would work

Clouds aren't stationary -- they are moved around by the wind. So if a volcano to the west burps up a toxic cloud, it will be blown elsewhere before it disperses.

[Eloriel]

83. One problem with your theory

99% of the time or MORE, the prevailing winds come off the Pacific coast to the west of McMinnville, Salem, etc., and blow eastward TOWARD the volcanoes. It's on very rare occasions when you have winds coming off either the Columbia Gorge or the high mountain plateau past the Cascade volcanic mountains. And I'm only familiar with it happening in the summertime (similar to Santa Ana winds in CA), and, as I said, quite rarely.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

84. There are no volcanoes to the west of that area,

just the Coast Range (not volcanic if it ever was) and the Pacific Ocean. The volcanic Cascades are to the east.

[nashville_brook]

94. That's what it probably was in Unicoi -- Nuclear Fuels Services is up

that way. It's a nice old nuclear plant up in the mountains of East Tennessee where the hillbillies don't have much say in how their land is used -- let me re-phrase that, are bought out cheaply.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. I doubt it.

I'm not aware of any evidence that the concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere has been decreasing at all. Anyway, birds can tolerate a far lower level of oxygen than we can. That's why you can see ravens hopping around on the summit of Mt. Everest, where humans need oxygen tanks to survive.

If it's disease, then pollution could well have something to do with it, since it can weaken the immune system. But please note, pollution isn't about a decrease in the oxygen concentration, it's about an increase in the level of toxins and various gases like CO2 which normally have a very low concentration.

I had wondered if it might be poisoning. I've seen poisoning in birds before, such as, when people put out poisoned corn in order to kill pigeons, and of course, any other type of bird that eats corn will also be affected.

[candle_bright]

10. Considering the region

in which this seems to have originated, it may have something to do with the tsunami and its aftermath (rampant diseases).

[Crunchy Frog]

15. Oregon was affected by the tsunami?

I hadn't realized that.

[candle_bright]

17. No

I said the "region in which it seems to have originated." I was just offering an idea. Birds travel, and they likened the Canadian Geese situation to sick birds in Thailand and Vietnam.

I never said I was right, I was just brainstorming.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Sorry for the mild sarcasm.

As far as I know, Canada Geese don't travel to Asia. Actually, most of the Canada goose populations in the U.S. are artificial populations originally bred to give hunters something to shoot at. These geese tend to pretty much stay within local areas.

I'm not sure if this is the case with Canada geese in Oregon, but it is the case here in Colorado.

[candle_bright]

22. The Asian birds (pigeons & ducks) may travel, though.

I didn't say the Canadian Geese travelled to Asia.

[pandemic_1918]

49. Geese From Russia and Vancouver

I don't think the Canada geese deaths would be related to the tsunami. I believe some geese from Russia travel to Alaska and then down the coast. The would pass through Vancouver (site of bird flu last season).

The Canada gees deaths are probably related to an infectious disease because geese were found over a fairly wide area in Oregon.

[Baclava]

12. It's the chemtrails!

(Assumes tin-foil hat pose)

[ClayZ]

13. I saw this in a dream 5 years ago...

It left me shaking all day.. Argh! This freaks me out. I can still hear the thuds as they hit the ground...

:(

[oasis]

64. Scary stuff. (n/t)

:scared:

[mordarlar]

69. My daughter had a similar dream...

there was a male smiling wickedly at my mother and her. My mother was trying to get my daughter to run. My daughter was frozen watching as an eagle and a 2 doves fell dead to the ground. She is 12. Following this dream she had one that showed bush not finishing term.

[ClayZ]

78. Sleepy Hollow and hopeful Awakenings

I would pay for that second dream! heh heh ..Good on her! Is she otherwise an Indigo Child?

Seems like a lot of stuff is shakin down! When more of the Kool-Aid drinkers wake up, I hope the "Sleepy Hollow" is still here.

Mercy!

[mordarlar]

103. I have three daughters. While they do not fit...

the personality traits of indigos they all have some extra sensory abilities. They are also all gifted. Two of the went to self contained gifted programs at public schools. My youngest is still too young.

They are peaceful, relatively calm, thoughtful, empathetic kids.

We have had some unpleasant experiences with some of the "knowing" and so we tend to keep it light. My youngest has had some fairly frightening experiences. At 5 she began talking of the spirits in the sea. : / It upset her a lot. We tend to not seek this kind of thing but respect it when it happens.

My oldest is pretty certain * WILL not finish term. We will see.

[ClayZ]

79. I like the eagle falling and the DECENDING doves...

Does she remember the impression of the doves?

[mordarlar]

101. Peace with each representing a country she has said. Eagle was America.

The death of the birds in the dream made her and my mother scream.

Interesting note: My mother voted bush

[ClayZ]

105. Peace Doves !

:-)

[mordarlar]

106. But they fell dead Do you have an analysis of the dream?

[ClayZ]

108. Not me. Google does however.

Just google "dove dream analisys". Here is the first one that comes up:

Dream symbol: dove, doves

Interpretation:
Peace
Freedom
Spirituality
Love
A gentle, innocent person

I struggle to make sense of my own dreams so I "google", Dream symbols.
The "falling birds" dream I had was very scary, then. When I think of it now it does not scare me.

[mordarlar]

109. Thanks again for that story. : ) She really loved it.

[amazona]

16. folks there is a HUGE overpop. of Canada geese in many areas

My guess is that some of the crowding and over-population has led to the spread of disease.

180 dead Canada Geese is not a sign of the apocalypse or even a drop in the bucket of the huge Canada Goose population we are currently enjoying.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[donsu]

21. hiss, boo on your Can. geese stats

just a few wks. ago small birds were falling out of the sky up by Miami.

tick, tick, tick

[amazona]

28. whatever

Again, it depends on the small bird. If it is House Finch, then conjunctivitis (argh, can't be spelled right) has been pandemic among them for quite some while. Stop putting out feeders where the finches congregate and share the contagious illness.

If it is some other kind of bird, then there may be another problem. Hard to say. Avian pox, avian flu, avian encephalitis, come and go. They need to be monitored but they are unfortunately part of the natural order in a world where mosquitoes exist.

Sad to say it, but a great many people and not just bird-watchers would not necessarily be greatly exercised by a reasonable reduction in the Canada Goose population. There are many places where they are so numerous that they are truly a hazard underfoot!

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[grasswire]

20. most of the Canada geese around Salem...

...are not migratory. They are year-round habitants.

[kostya]

23. Even if they are not year-round inhabitants, this is where they migrate

to, not from. A lot of them come specifically from the Copper River delta in Alaska. Oregon is to Alaska what Baja is to Oregon for these wonderful birds. There are many very large preserves for them in the Willamette Valley. - K

[pandemic_1918]

74. Cackling Canada Geese Are Migratory and Dead

The cackling Canada geese are migratory and they were the only subspecies affected in the recent die-off

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02060503/Cackling_Canada_Geese_Falling.html

[Twillig]

24. I really don't think you are correct.

Having spent many a summer in Salem, I don't recall there being much in the way of a goose population.

Come fall and winter the sky is full of them and they're going to be showing up in the refuges and fields in the Salem region in huge numbers.

http://refuges.fws.gov/profiles/index.cfm?id=14591

[shraby]

26. My guess is bird flu.

It's a pretty deadly flu bug.

[pandemic_1918]

30. Lots of Wild Birds Dying in Thailand

Thailand is reporting quite a few dead birds in the past few weeks (from H5N1)

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02040502/More_Wild_Birds.html

It almost a year since the Vancouver outbreak, so bird flu in Salem would not be a surprise.

[depakid]

45. There is a resident population in Oregon

but the vast majority in the Willamette Valley are migrants who winter there because of the relatively mild climate allows farmers to grow crops of grasses and clover that these geese graze on. The dramatic increase in their numbers over the last 20 years has to do with both conservation efforts and the widespread destruction of habitat in California.

The Willamette Valleys goose population swells: Birders are thrilled but some farmers aren't

And as much as I like the geese, they can be real pain in the ass.

It wouldn't surprise me if some asshole poisoned them.

[grasswire]

62. from the link...

To some extent, efforts have worked. The Willamette Valley is now winter home to more Canada geese than at any other time in recorded history. According to waterfowl surveys, today's numbers are unprecedented.


Winter populations of Canada geese throughout Northwestern Oregon have increased nearly eight-fold in the last 20 yeas, now numbering around 200,000 birds - a phenomenon that may well delight birders. Out at Fern Ridge, Morrow points to the dramatic evening fly-in and morning lift-off of wintering Canada geese as a remarkable viewing opportunity. He's eager to suggest spots along Royal Avenue or the Fern Ridge dam that afford the best vantage to watch.

But he's also mindful of growing frustration around the visiting flocks. While the birds please some, they confound others, including area farmers who've reported heightened crop damage from hordes of wintering geese that graze on young, tender crops. Last year, a group of local farmers attempted to wake political leaders to their plight, sending videotapes of trampled, muddy fields and personal testimony to legislators in Salem and Washington, D.C. From the back of a tractor, they contend, the abundant flocks of Canada geese look like little more than flying cows.

[donsu]

71. sorry for hissing and booing, I thought all species of bird in the world

were down in population.

[grasswire]

61. lived there for the past eight years

All one has to do is drive east on State Street at any time of the year and see hundreds of them that are domesticated and living on state property. Also down Madrona Avenue along the little creek that runs beside the airport. All year.

[gulfcoastliberal]

27. West Nile?

Isn't that the cause of dead birds lately?

[amazona]

29. could be

West Nile and other forms of encephalitis that affect birds are easily tested for, so if this be the case, the mystery will be solved in short order.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Crunchy Frog]

32. Doubtful, unless the area has mosquitos

over the winter. I don't know alot about Oregon, but isn't it too far north to have mosquitos in winter?

[amazona]

34. world's worst mosquitoes are in Alaska

...and I'm guessing that's considerably north of Oregon. :-)

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Crunchy Frog]

38. My question had to do with the seasonality

of mosquitos, not their prevalence. I don't doubt that the mosquito is Alaska's unofficial state bird, but it would surprise me a great deal to learn that they were active this time of the year.

So, to rephrase my question, does Oregon have mosquitos in the winter?:)

[amazona]

47. ah you are not aware of the incubation period

Birds do not drop dead immediately of mosquito borne disease. The diseases can incubate for months or even years. Were it otherwise, the mosquitoes and what they carry would kill all their hosts before they could reproduce and there would be no future generation of hosts for these diseases.

I saw a necropsy showing death from malaria on a parrot that did not show symptoms or become ill or die until a full decade after being imported from the malaria area. This parrot was from a group (the conures) where a bird might be a carrier without illness for many years or decades until another problem (like old age) weakened the bird and caused it to succumb to the malaria. An extreme case, yes, but an illustration of what I'm talking about.

It doesn't matter if there are few or no mosquitoes in winter. The birds could have well been bitten in the summer and only now showing symptoms of some disease.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Crunchy Frog]

55. All I know about West Nile

is what I experienced working at a wildlife rehab center. Summer before last was the first time that we saw it. We had a whole lot of our animals die from it. We saw it in alot of other animals besides birds. I think we sent the first few in for professional necropsies and diagnoses, but we soon were able to detect the telltale characteristics of the disease ourselves on necropsy.

I can tell you that the deaths began with the beginning of the mosquito season. They also ended with the end of the mosquito season. We did not see any latent cases turn up any significant time after the mosquito season ended.

This past summer, the mosquitos were still carrying the disease, but we saw only a tiny fraction of the number of cases that we saw the previous summer. It was sort of like the animals which were mostly died the first season, and the ones that were left had some resistance to it. I don't know though.

I'm pretty sure that not all mosquito borne diseases are the same. West Nile appears to be very different than malaria. From what I've been able to observe, if an animal is going to get sick from it, it will happen pretty quickly. Even if that latency thing did happen once in a blue moon, it would be a very rare phenomenon and unlikly to be causing 150 birds to die all at once in one small area.

Again, I'm only speaking of this because I have direct personal experience with it. Several of our employees and volunteers got pretty sick that summer as well. While there was no formal diagnonis, it was pretty much presumed to be West Nile. I don't think they usually try to diagnose in people unless they get the full blown encephalitis, which is rare except in the elderly or immune compromised.

I'm not trying to have a flame war with you over this. I'm just as interested as you are in finding out what's killing those geese. I'm just trying to contribute based on knowledge that I've gained from my own experiences. From everything I know, mosquito borne West Nile is not very likely to be the culprit in this case.

[amazona]

95. no of course you are correct

West Nile can be very fast and it certainly does create those neurological symptoms some are describing. And the odds of malaria killing the geese in Oregon approximates zero. I was just throwing that out as an example of why a mosquito bite doesn't always kill right away. I agree the geese in question probably had neither West Nile nor malaria. :-)

My point is that incubation times for disease vary -- even mosquito borne disease.

We need a good necropsy on the birds. Time will tell. It won't remain a mystery.

My guess is a disease vector is causing this, but it's just a guess. Sure, it could be a chemical or another factor. Time will tell.

On a side note-

For what's it worth, while it cannot be state or official policy for all the usual reasons, I've been told under the table that getting exposed to West Nile under age 50 is a very wise thing to do. Especially considering there is no vaccine. Also, there is probably some cross protection from those who have had the vaccine for Japanese encephalitis. So your volunteers may be better off in the end. It's better to have West Nile at 40 than at 60 in the experience of our parish. I have taken my own advice. And enough said about that, before I violate any rules about quack medical advice. :-)

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Crunchy Frog]

96. Well, I may have had West Nile

and not known it. From what I've read, most younger people who get infected with it are completely asymptomatic, and never show any signs of illness. The only way you're likely to know that you've got it is if you try to donate blood. Then it gets picked up by the tests that they run, and you know.

The virus was definitely rampant in Colorado summer before last, and working at the wildlife place, I was certainly exposed to enough mosquitos.

I was kind of surprised that as many people actually got sick as did. I guess it could partly be due to the stress of working there that tends to depress the immune system. We've had some people develop some near fatal medical conditions, as well as a couple of nervous breakdowns.

[pandemic_1918]

77. Sudden Death (Like Bird Flu)

It looks like some of the birds did literally fall out of the sky. One went into convulsions on one person's driveway. Others looked like they were swimming with their heads in the water.

Lots of descriptions on avian flu in Asia. Number one symptom is SUDDEN DEATH

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02060504/Cackling_Canada_Geese_Sudden.html

[XemaSab]

57. Good call

Yeah, it's too cold for mosquitos in winter.

[Eloriel]

85. Don't let the "northerliness" of Oregon fool you

I don't actually know the answer to your question, but half of Oregon (from the Coast to the Cascades) is quite mild in the winter. I never wore much more than a raincoat with maybe a light sweater under it during the 3 winters I lived in the Portland area.

And the coldest I remember it getting was just under 32 degrees with a bit of snow. It's very much like the climate here in north Georgia (Atlanta area) with one major exception: the summers are hotter and the humidity is far worse all year 'round. AFAIC, Oregon's climate (in the Western half) is absolutely perfect. I particularly groove on the low humidity.

Edited to add: EAST of the Cascades is high mountain plateau and cold and wintry and more like Idaho and Montana in the winter. Brrrr. But that western half is heaven. Same for Washington west of the Cascades, btw.

[LeftyMom]

90. We don't have them after October in Northern California

and winter here is milder than in Oregon.

[ucmike]

31. simple. terra-ists with laser pointers.

[donsu]

33. and they always say the birds will be examined to determine cause

of death. I've never heard one of these cause of death reports. Have you all?

[amazona]

35. of course many times

It's a special interest story so you are not going to find it on the front page but I've read endless reports of necropsies of dead birds discovered over the decades. In the last few months I've read reports of everything from West Nile to avian influenza (not the kind transmissible to humans but the kind that is harmful to the poultry industry) to a truly weird story of Bald Eagles being infected by some sort of poisonous algae in the Carolinas. Scientists, both in wildlife and in poultry and public health, are working and reporting in this field every day.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[rodeodance]

36. really scary stuff "lied the dead ducks in Vietnam"

,,,,, sounds remarkably like the pigeons falling out of the sky in Thailand and the suggestion of avian cholera sounds like the dead ducks in Vietnam. .......

[pandemic_1918]

50. Yes, H5N1 Deaths in Wild Birds - OIE Reports

Birds in Thailand are being actively screened for H5N1 and the deaths and positives are reported

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02040502/More_Wild_Birds.html

HPAI - Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza) is a reportable disease

http://www.oie.int/downld/AVIAN%20INFLUENZA/A_AI-Asia.htm

[rayofreason]

87. H5N1

Hope that it does not jump to us. Remember 1918.

[pandemic_1918]

98. 1918 Pandemic & Preparedness

The most remarkable aspect of 1918 (when 20-50 million people died and the world's population was 1/4 of what it is today) is the fact that the H5N1 virus in Vietnam, Thailand, and Cambodia in 2005 is over 10X more deadly than 1918 and preparation in 2005 is about where it was in 1918.

[wesrose]

39. probably some kinda bird flu...

[henrik larssonisking]

42. police are looking for 5 suspects

wearing hunter orange, carrying 12 gauges and being accompanied by 3 black labradors.

[nookiemonster]

68. LOL! You beat me to it!

Seriously, there is a major overpopulation problem. Disease could possibly be a factor, me thinks.

Of course I only play a ornithologogist (sp?) on TV.
;)

[arikara]

51. Yes, but would they all drop dead at once if it was the flu?

You'd think that they wouldn't necessarily be exposed at the same moment and each one take precisely the same time for the disease to incubate so that they all fall out of the sky at the same time. Sounds far-fetched to me.

[90-percent]

52. dead birds

Fuck the Future!

-85%

[pandemic_1918]

53. Bird Flu Deaths

Bird flu can happen pretty suddenly. There are reports of entire flocks dying within a few hours. However, although some of the birds may have fallen out of the sky, it sounds like most died while on the ground (some were on the water floating with their heads in the water and others were on land with their winds spread.

Moreover, the birds were found at at least different locations. I believe one was northwest of Salem, one southwest, and one even further south. These results would be consistent with an infection such as bird flu.

[XemaSab]

58. A disease may have weakened them

and when they tried to fly, they were too weak to stay airborne....?

[burrowowl]

56. In NM a lot of them fell out of the

It was determined that several farmers had oversprayed insecticide/herbicide. It was chemical. It took awhile to determine this (to protect that horrible M corporation?).

[truthpusher]

59. Can't they run an autopsy or a toxicology report?

[bushcrab]

60. There were a few dead geese two years ago at Staats lake

It's an old gravel pit that might have some toxic garbage history to it. It's been "cleaned" and reclaimed in recent years and is now surrounded by nice houses and small businesses. Signs around the lake warn people about swimming in it.

This is grass seed country and farmers are always complaining of geese trashing their crops. I'd bet money on a poison plot before I'd even think about some chicken virus in this case. I'd like to hear from the toxicologist too.

[pandemic_1918]

67. Why Bird Flu Is More Likely

Although there will be more data coming, the reported information makes poisoning, duck hunters, disgruntled farmers, and other trivial explanations less likely.

The latest report is on 150 Canada geese at one location south of Salem, OR. However, the report cites two other locations, one northwest of Salem and the other further south. Moreover, the dead geese are all the same sub-species.

All of the above sounds like an infectious agent. Poisoning would not target a single species and would be unlikely to cover such a large area.

The recent data does not give much data for identifying the agent. However, about a year ago there was a bird flu outbreak in Vancouver (H7N3) and bird flu is seasonal, so another outbreak this month would not be surprising.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01060503/Efficient_H7N7.html

There was an outbreak in California (H6N2) a few years earlier. Canada geese in Canada also migrate from Russia where there have been several H5 outbreaks, including H5N1.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01090501/Migrating_Russian_Recombinants.html

Thus, bird flu is definitely a possibility.

[evolvenow]

65. The U.S. Military's first target is the electrojet: a river of electricity

The U.S. Military's first target is the electrojet: a river of electricity that flows thousands of miles through the sky and down into the polar icecap. The electrojet will become a vibrating artificial antenna for sending electromagnetic radiation raining down on the earth. The U.S. military can then "X-ray" the earth and talk to submarines. But there's much more they can do with HAARP. This book reveals surprises from secret meetings.
The U.S. Government has a new ground-based "Star Wars" weapon which is being tested in the remote bush country of Alaska. This new system manipulates the environment in a way which can:
* Disrupt human mental processes.
* Jam all global communications systems.
* Change weather patterns over large areas.
* Interfere with wildlife migration patterns.
* Negatively affect your health.
* Unnaturally impact the Earth's upper atmosphere.

Excerpts:
MESSING WITH 'MOTHER EARTH' AND HER KIDS ELECTROMAGNETICALLY!
(snip)
1975: Pell Senate Subcommittee urges that weather & climate modification work be overseen by civilian agency answerable to U.S. Congress. Didn't happen.
1975: Soviets begin pulsing "Woodpecker" ELF waves, at key brainwave rhythms. Eugene, Oregon, one of locations where people were particularly affected.
http://hiddenmysteries.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16454

[jus_the_facts]

70. well I wonder if the SUN might have a bit to do with this..

.....we're bein' bombarded by X-rays more heavily and the electromagnetic field is highly charged too? :shrug:

*snip*

http://www.sec.noaa.gov/today.html

Geophysical Activity Forecast: The geomagnetic field is expected to be at quiet to unsettled levels for the first day (6 Feb). Predominantly active conditions with periods of minor storming are possible on 7-8 February due to a recurrent high speed coronal hole stream.


http://www.sec.noaa.gov/pmap/

[progressivebydesign]

111. Don't say that!! There's a horrible HUM in this Puget Sound area..

.. and many say it's related to that program in Alaska. It'll drive you nuts!!

[are_we_united_yet]

73. Must be those dangerous drugs from Prescription drug program n/t

:eyes:

[420inTN]

75. They're hitting invisible UFOs. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

80. Poultry industry makes plea to suppress flu details

http://tinyurl.com/6qhhj
ANNAPOLIS -- In the wake of an economically devastating avian flu outbreak in the Delmarva region last year, poultry producers asked lawmakers Friday for legislation to conceal the identity of infected farms, saying they want to avoid panicked embargos by overseas purchasers.

However secrecy would also limit the ability of non-government officials to monitor disease spread, potentially placing human populations at risk......

.......Slemons noted that the poultry industry is so vertically integrated that even if Europe refuses to accept imports of American poultry for a week the cost can be millions of dollars......


Another thing to worry about

[depakid]

82. The fact that this would even be considered

just shows how corrupt and ignorant this country has become. Sometimes, I think the nation deserves a major pandemic or a Bhopal size disaster.

It's certainly asking for one.

[amazona]

92. well don't worry

I hate to say it but I see from this thread and some of the Al Sharpton/KFC threads -- (and keep in mind I was an early supporter of Sharpton in the primaries until I saw it hopeless) -- that many people just have zero understanding of poultry industry issues.

The avian flu in Delmarva was not contagious to humans, and if hysteria was going to cause folks to think otherwise and not buy their product, I don't blame them for asking for some protection. There are still people on THIS site of more educated than average, more aware than average people who still believe contrary to all common sense, all published account, and all prices of chicken in the market that chicken farmers have money to waste on feeding chickens STEROIDS.

On one of the threads, a poster actually claimed that one could get "mad cow disease" from poultry -- even though this has never happened even one time in all human history.

The profit on a chicken is so tiny that you can't afford to throw anything away on hysteria if you can avoid it. It is a tough industry.

Could well be that the Canada Geese in question died of disease, I think the odds are they did. But no use panicking and assuming the disease will kill people. Fact is, at current time, it is not even cutting down on the huge over-population of frickin' geese.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Mojorabbit]

107. I do see your point but

I get emails from promed which is an infectious disease list staffed by physicians in that field. This came in that email with link along with outbreaks of assorted diseases around the world. They are worried because to nip any pandemic they know the people involved in arresting it will need to know asap. If it is allowed to be hidden they will not be able to possibly nip it in the bud.

I believe last time they ringed the area with a buffer and quarantined. This can be overdone as what they did in england with the BSE in the nineties but then again I think keeping any outbreak hidden is asking for major problems. Other countries will have no faith in our products if the whole process is not open.

I think Japan is still not importing our beef cause we don't check enough cows. Plus, If I have to weigh profit with health,, I think I will err on the side of health. The profits are not worth a possible spread of a mutant bird virus in the population.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

81. "large numbers of dead geese ... in ... McMinnville"

Has to be alien activity. McMinnville is the location of one of the best known sightings of UFOs. You know the poster of the flying saucer on Fox Mulder's office wall in "The X-Files?" That picture is from McMinnville, if I'm not mistaken.

Google for mcminnville ufo

[rucky]

89. It's also home of the Spruce Goose

maybe the plane got jealous?

[amazona]

91. Geese *are* UFOs

A great experience of my life was observing a beautiful V formation of classic saucer-shaped UFOs...all ruined when the sunsabeeches started honking.

My UFOs were migrating geese with the setting sun reflecting off their fat round bellies! :-)

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Liberty Belle]

99. Prophesizing fall of the GOP--dead ducks & cooked geese?

Would that it were true. More likely, bird flu is the culprit.