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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:50 AM
Original message
Russian Officers Helped Terrorists Seize Beslan School Commission


The Russian parliamentary commission investigating the Beslan school siege has passed over to law enforcement agencies evidence on two more officials suspected of helping the militants seize the school in early September 2004, the commission head was quoted as saying by Interfax on Thursday.

Two accomplices have already been arrested, three have had arrest warrants issued for them and are now being looked for, and there are two more on whom we have handed over material, Alexander Torshin, chairman of the commission and a deputy speaker of the Federation Council, the upper house of the Russian parliament, told reporters.

A terrorist act on such a scale would have been impossible to commit without accomplices.


While the accomplices identified so far have been local civilians, Mr Torshin said the duo being sought both held a military rank higher than a major and a colonel.
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Options Remain Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. looks like
Putin is taking lessons from Bushco.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. This Could Be the Epitaph for the 9/11Victims:
A terrorist act on such a scale would have been impossible to commit without accomplices.

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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Oh, good point
Edited on Sat Jan-29-05 01:15 PM by Rose Siding
But I'm leery of any official investigation results now. Who knows whether they've been questioned using the Alberto Gonzales Method?
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. If only the 9/11 commission had such power.
This is a "duh" moment, but, alas, in a world of made up facts, it's actually quite a surprise that this is happening.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. Remember the Russian Theater attack?
I saw two pictures that have bothered me to this day.

Here's one of the hostage takers, take note of the guy on the left:

Now here's one of two people leaving after the police raided. Take note of the guy apparently being 'escorted' out of the building:

While the guy is obviously wearing a mask in the first picture, there's something very familiar about the guy in the second picture -- same eyes, same mouth, same head shape.

There's a lot of possible explanations, including that it's not the same guy, but I don't remember the Russians admitting they had anyone in custody for that crime -- thought they were all killed. So who is escorting who out of the building in the second picture, and why?

Like I said -- it's just always bothered me.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. agents provocateurs traitors
On the night of the 22d of April they arose and murdered
their officers, only a small remnant of the latter escaping.
This was beyond the scheme of the Iron Heel, for
the agents-provocateurs had done their work too well.
But everything was grist to the Iron Heel. It had prepared for
the outbreak, and the killing of so many officers gave
it justification for what followed. As by magic, forty
thousand soldiers of the regular army surrounded
the malcontents. It was a trap. The wretched militiamen
found that their machine-guns had been tampered with, and
that the cartridges from the captured magazines did not fit
their rifles. They hoisted the white flag of surrender, but it
was ignored.

The Iron Heel
by Jack London /

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Both of them look like the same guys. Lots that's bothered me about
this incident and the apartment house bombings that preceded Putin's triuphant return to Chechnya. I think all the old spooks learn from each other, Tuttle.

How did the forms work out? Able to download them alright for your work? Gotta love the paperwork if you're going to work in Central Services.
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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Yeah
The guy on the right in the top picture looks like the guy on the left in the bottom pix.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. No, they had one person in custody.
They killed 31, I believe, and they had one surviving terrorist in custody.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
5. Tsk, corruption in the Russian military? What a shock. nt
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
"is this real world or an exercise?"-FAA employee on 911

The answer to this question will provide us with the name of
the individual who ran the operatonal execution of the
9/11 attack.

On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11Commission,
Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to
the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in
and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out."
"The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane
is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice
President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice
President turned and whipped his neck around and said,
"Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to
the contrary?"

Impossible w/o accomplices indeed.

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Cheney certainly ordered the Flt 93 shootdown, but not sure he's the
real mastermind behind the whole 9/11 attack.

I'd have to assign overall blame to Shrub, as it was ultimately his decision not to roll up the the UBL cells known to be in the US when offered that option by Tenet on August 24. By all available evidence, Cheney wasn't at that Crawford meeting. He was recuperating from heart surgery. Bush, Tenet, Rummy, Condi, Karen Hughes, and Gen. Myer were there. It's simply incredible that the CIA watchlisting of the Flt. 77 hijackers, which occurred the previous day, wasn't discussed by the participants.

Google "Tenet's Perjury"

Nice to meet you, jmcgowanjm. Hope you get this message.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Hey, I'm with you, leveymg
Shrub will get the overall blame.

As the military is so fond of saying-ignorance is no excuse.

But you can tell he's in lala land. You can't pretend
to be stupid all the time because sooner rather than
later you will be.

I'm going at this like I'm painting a negative image.

Surrounding the positve space, like FDR did
Pearl Harbor, we'll know.

Watch Cheney. He's always the guy who gets
trotted out for the last word. No one suprecedes

See-Inauguration comment-
In a radio interview broadcast on MSNBC, Cheney said that
Iran was on the top of the Bushs list of world trouble
spots, expressing concern that Israel "might well decide to
act first" to destroy Irans alleged nuclear

"You look around the world at potential trouble spots, Iran is
right at the top of the list," the vice president

"the very definition of perjury." Yes I read about tenet,
thanx for jogging my memory. And maybe Tenet
will unravel this, but there are so many of these threads
lying around.

I think Poppy Bush is the guy to put n the stand.
He's been part of every major event since JFK63.
Poppy was in the WH on 911

And cheney's his protege

Well met again, leveymg,
I'll be looking for your posts,

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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I agree about Poppy being the real brains of the cartel. The weird thing
about him is that my guts tell me that he's got some principles and is pretty smart. I think he's just a gray-haired inside operator who plays the game by the insiders' rulebook. He's part of the piratical wing of the Establishment that goes back to the Teddy Roosevelt Admininistration grab of the Panama Canal -- that would be the Sullivan & Cromwell, Morgan Bank, Harriman-Brown Bros., Texaco-Gulf Oil, Dulles Bros. faction that cleaned up after both World Wars -- but, I don't think Poppy's a rogue.

I just can't see the Republican black inner-circle as the guiding force behind something like the 9/11 attack. The chances of getting caught and the resulting consequences are just too high. That's not to say that there wasn't massive crimes of ommission, and that the outcome of a large-scale terrorist attack wasn't anticipated, planned for, and exploited. The consolidation of power over the American government and the takeover of upstream Saudi and Iranian oil holdings are the main prizes, but there are other players who had motive and opportunity to exploit the clear opportunities presented in 2001. Iraq was clearly the first target of opportunity, and would have been taken regardless, and the doubling of world crude oil prices is proof of just how well this whole Situationist strategy has gone.

Somehow, if my instincts are a reliable guide to character, I don't think 41 or Cheney is the 9/11 mastermind. Cheney doesn't seem to have the spine or vision for it. And, as for Poppy, he wouldn't act without authorization, either. Recall the picture of 41 and 43 in the golf cart taken a few months after the attack - 41 looks livid and 43 like a puppy who's been hit hard after shitting on the Persian rug -- the really nice one in the living room -- one too many times.

If neither Cheney nor 41 did it, who does this leave? Someone perhaps in private industry whose name isn't widely publicized. That person would likely have oil ties, I suspect. Could have just been a powerplay within the Saudi royal family -- that's a real possibility, given the dead bodies that turned up later. One would think that the Ambassador to the Court of St. James might know. I don't know. If you have any ideas, James, let's hear them.

- Mark
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Back to Beslan
Notice how the Duma is taking names.

Looking for Generals-who in Russia are the power.

As opposed to our 911Commission. Noone blamed.

Yes, private dark out of sight. More later.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Taken literally, the Duma may be more independent than the 9/11 Commiss or
it may be that they're playing, knowingly or not, according to a intelligence agency script. There may be some people in the Russian GRU (DIA counterpart) that Putin wants discredited. Don't forget that the Russians practically invented Byzantine politics and modern black operations. The Brits really mastered them globally, but the Imperial Okhrana is definitely the model for a domestic political dirty tricks shop, particularly the manufacture of the regime's own terrorist opposition by agents provocateur.

Compared to the clumsy, out in the open runnings amok that masquerade as U.S. covert operations -- ops that everyone knows about except the American people -- the operations run by the KGB (and its successors) are downright stealthy.

I wouldn't put a lot of stake in what's coming out now about Beslan through the Russian "opposition" media. I would look very closely at the pedigree, and want some confirmation, before accepting such accounts. But, current FSU isn't one of my areas of expertise, so I really can't comment on their reliability.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. yes, I was going to comment on organized crime
and black markets. God knows the various
secret service's must have some idea of both.

Every country has both, is both?

And why I concentrate on the point man-
Bush 41-

Secrets get complex and then have to get
simple- at some point surfacing, asking,demanding profit
which is energy, hydrocarbons/grain in this case.

which must be diverted into say grain or
oil shipments.

Someone has to be able and show that they are doing this

"The current mission of the United States Federal
Reserve System is," says the Economic Policy Institute's
Jeff Faux, "to intervene in the economy on the side of those
who invest for a living against those who work for a living."

The top .1% of the wealthiest, Sp 500.

An attack like Beslan, 911 is a sign of
weakness, the staus quo was no longer working
for certain vested interests.


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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Status Quo No longer Working for Whom? That Would Suggest
a narrowing of the pool of suspects to industries that were lagging the S&P in 2001. In 1997, the Asia bubble burst after Russia defaulted. That started a long chain of economic shocks that have rolled around the world. In March 2000, the NASDAQ crashed. The Dow tumbled shortly thereafter. Now we're in a real estate bubble that's soon to burst. The Chinese economy is overheated and overly reliant on the American market. That means that capital has to find both a safe harbor and a place to grow aggressively. What does that leave?

The Euro markets seem a good harbor, but there isn't much short-term growth potential there.

That leaves commodities - mainly energy (oil, natural gas, in particular). The problem with inflating those prices is that it serves as a brake on many other sectors. That can have some really nasty social and political consequences. If one doesn't care about longterm outcomes, go ahead. A nice regional war in the Mid East will drive up oil prices. But, it had better be a short one, or you have to go on a wartime footing -- driving up the national debt to fund the war effort. At the end, you'd better be way ahead in terms of acquisition costs of the commodities seized or exploited at favorable terms after the war.

I wonder whether the US can reach a break-even point in Iraq. Strongly doubt it if we attempt to occupy Iran. Saudi Arabia would be a lot cheaper to knock over by an internal coup - but that risks a fundamentalist takeover, and much worse relations than we have now.

I have to ask, James, whose rational interest is being served here, except Carlyle Group, General Dynamics, etc.?
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-30-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Exactly, leveymg, and where is our praetorian guard
Edited on Sun Jan-30-05 10:27 AM by jmcgowanjm
A couple of questions-
who got that video of the Beslan school to Moscow?
who sold United/American short?

The Praetorian Guard of both respective empires
know the answers to these questions.

I see devolution ahead. For both Russia and the US.

The reforms of Diocletian (c.236-305; emperor, 284-305),
who brought to an end the period of "Military Anarchy"
(235-284) and Constantine the Great (c.272-337; emperor, 324-337),
who made Christianity the favored religion of the
empire, completed the process of transformation that the
3rd century made necessary to sustain the Empire. What
began as an attempt to bring peace and prosperity ended as
a program to insure the very survival of the Roman
Empire. Diocletian tried to bring some kind of emperor-
worship to Rome but by this time the Empire could see the
end. The citizens were now called upon to sacrifice
everything -- wealth, property, lives -- for the preservation of
the Roman State. And Diocletian demanded that he be
called Dominus noster (Lord and Master), rather than
princeps or imperator. More and more barbarian tribes settled
in the Empire and were invited to do so as long as they
paid taxes and supplied soldiers to the army. By 300, more
than seventy-five percent of the army was composed of
German soldiers. The army itself was barbarized and turned
into an instrument of sheer oppression. In such a situation
it soon became apparent that the Germans distrusted
the Romans and the Romans hated the Germans in acts
of blatant racism.

something like this, maybe
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-31-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Your reply deserves a thoughtful response - haven't had time to open up
my 12 volume set of Gibbon's Rise and Fall. Would certainly like to continue this discussion, though, James. We can do this by e-mail later in the week. You can find my e-mail by Googling my name. You know what it is.

- Mark
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Commission head: Law enforcement helped Beslan gang (school massacre)

Commission head: Law enforcement helped Beslan gang

By CNN Moscow Bureau Chief Jill Dougherty
Friday, January 28, 2005 Posted: 2:06 PM EST (1906 GMT)

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian law enforcement officials allegedly helped terrorists to carry out last September's school massacre in Beslan, Russia, that left 344 people dead, according to the head of a special parliamentary commission.

Alexander Torshin, the head of the commission investigating the fatal hostage taking, told Russian media that two accomplices already have been detained, three are being sought and authorities are preparing the legal work to detain two more.

Torshin said the suspects included officials ranking "higher than major."

Another Senator who is a member of the commission, Vladimir Kulakov, added that the people who aided the terrorists are not only in Beslan but "at the federal level" and "these people are still at their jobs."

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bin.dare Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-29-05 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
18. remember the two critical journalists that ...

2 Reporters Unable to Travel to Beslan
The Moscow Times

Under suspicious circumstances, two prominent Moscow journalists known for their critical coverage of the military campaign in Chechnya failed to make it to North Ossetia to cover the hostage crisis in Beslan.

Radio Liberty reporter Andrei Babitsky was detained Thursday at Vnukovo Airport and prevented from flying to Mineralniye Vody while police, who said they suspected him of carrying explosives, searched his bags.

After no explosives were found, Babitsky was released, but two men approached him and started provoking him. All three men were detained, and Babitsky was charged with "hooliganism." He was sentenced Friday to five days in jail.

In a separate incident Thursday, Anna Politkovskaya, who covers Chechnya for Novaya Gazeta, fell ill on her way to Beslan and had to be hospitalized. Her editor said she was poisoned.

Politkovskaya was flying from Vnukovo Airport to Rostov-on-Don and fainted on the plane. Immediately after landing, she was taken to a local hospital, where doctors found she had been poisoned, Novaya Gazeta editor Dmitry Muratov told the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists.

Muratov said Politkovskaya had not eaten anything that day and she felt sick after drinking tea on the plane. He did not speculate on who might have poisoned her. Politkovskaya is now recovering in a Moscow clinic.

The web site, citing her colleagues at Novaya Gazeta, reported that Politkovskaya and other journalists were prevented from boarding one flight to Rostov-on-Don, but then the captain of another flight to the same city recognized her and welcomed her on board.

Politkovskaya was to have taken part in negotiations with the hostage-takers in Beslan, according to some reports.

She was among those who negotiated with the Chechen militants who took hundreds of people hostage in the Dubrovka theater in October 2002.

Babitsky grabbed headlines in 2000 when he was arrested by federal forces in Chechnya and later exchanged for Russian prisoners of war held by separatists.

"Both cases are very suspicious," said Oleg Panfilov, the director of the Center for Journalism in Extreme Situations. "As for Babitsky's case, it is clear that it is a mere provocation."

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