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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 11:54 PM
Original message
NYT: Election Results to Be Certified, With Little Fuss From Kerry
WASHINGTON, Jan. 5 - The day before a joint session of Congress to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election, Senator John Kerry said Wednesday that he would not participate in a possible protest by Democrats who are challenging President Bush's victory in Ohio.

"While I am deeply concerned about the issues being highlighted by my colleagues in Congress and citizens across the country and support their efforts to highlight the need to ensure voting rights," Mr. Kerry said in a statement, "I will not be joining their protest of the Ohio electors."

Senator Kerry, who is traveling in the Middle East, does not plan to be in Washington on Thursday for the formal tally of the Electoral College results, the official constitutional ending to the 2004 presidential race.

more
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/politics/06elect.html?oref=login
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-05-05 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sorry Kerry fans, but this just pisses me off....
I didn't even vote for Kerry and his attitude makes me angry anyway. A lot of people invested a great deal in John Kerry, including many Green Party members.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. You didn't vote for Kerry?
I don't like him but I VOTED for him!
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olddad56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. I didn't vote FOR Kerry, I voted AGAINST fascism
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Born Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
62.  I didn't vote FOR Kerry, I voted AGAINST fascism
Democrats lost when they abandoned their picked leader at the time, Howard Dean, rather than stand up to the media; they quickly abandoned him and bought into the media line "anybody but bush" . At the time I wrote in DU the media that gave the nomination to Kerry could just as easily take it away and only by standing up and refusing to give in to the corporate controlled media could democrats overcome and win. Here on DU, there were many that even gloated, loved to see the media tear Dean down. Well, now we reep the fruits of our lack of support and our ignorance in allowing the media to control the nomination/election process.Once again we have democrats fighting for election reform but once again the media is not on our side - so as before, expect the spineless democrats to allow the right wing corporate controlled media to take charge. it's sad, but if the democrats can't even stand up to the media , how can everyday Americans trust they will stand up to a real threat....If democrats really stood up on day one, united, and with one message, it would send a strong signal to America, and when the democrats say they will protect social security, America would believe them but the way it is now, Americans know the democrats will roll over, sit and beg for the right wing as the right wings destroys everything working Americans have given their entire lives to build....it's a sad day in America and it's the elected, spineless democrats that are allowing it to happen.

Yes, I supported Kerry, gave more than any other election but feel betrayed that he quickly threw in the towel after giving all the speeches about making sure every vote was counted. Never again will I go along with the spineless democrats that only follow the right wing corporate controlled media.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I hope you were in a red state
or prepare to get majorly flamed

:mad:
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. California, and I'm Green....
Hell, David Cobb lives just down the road from me.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. hold on--I may join up with you after tomorrow
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 12:52 AM by librechik
unless the worm turns...the suspense is making me crazy!

:hi:
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aikido15 Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. How could anyone still be a Kerry fan?
Really...what a wimp! And you are right Mike, people did invest A LOT in him that he won't invest back in the people by supporting the voting reform..I can't believe I voted for this loser.:eyes: Never again will I support this party, they are capitalist pigs also and getting worse every year!
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
3. I feel like either he's been bought or threatened or he's
planning to run again in 08.

Wow. If he thinks dems will forgive this, he's delusional.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
22. Or he is the coward his critics said he was
Perhaps it was true that Kerry turned his swift boat away from the line of fire, until he realized there was no ambush and turned around.

I'll bet that Wes Clark would not have shied away from this fight if he were a Senator.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Wes was my first choice. The middle of the road
people could have related to him. And they certainly could not have painted him a the biggest liberal in congress, not that I think being a liberal is a bad thing, I am one. It's just the overwhelming onslaught of rw propaganda people are faced with on a daily basis makes people think that it is.
Ah, I'm rambling again. Sorry.
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VoteJohn04_com Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. have to agree

I have to agree that Kerry has to be certifiably
insane if he thinks that he'll be supported again.

Most of the supporters who voted for him
were from the other democratic hopeful camps...not his own.

I was for Edwards personally--and sadly, this meant
we never had a united front. Heck the moment he
conceded everyone splintered off into the old groups
again! :)

It's a shame he won't stand up though...
IT'S TOO IMPORTANT NOT TO TAKE A STAND!!!

CHECK IT OUT AND PASS IT ON!
http://www.stolenvotes.com
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LiberalVoice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #3
68. How this for a slogan...
"Fuck Kerry in '08!"

I mean really people...short of him going against what he said in this article how much longer do you plan on kicking this dead horse around?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Here's AWOL John Kerry's Letter that he sent to his loyal supporters today
...I actually just finished reading it and I am sorry, but I am fucking pissed beyond belief...unless someone can show me the wisdom in this "strategy" (if that's even what it is) then I have to tell you, I actually will go on the record now and say that John Kerry was not the man I thought he was....

Anyone who knows me on this board knows that I was a diehard and committed Kerry supporter - took the Pachababies on the road to 3 swing states for him - donated maximum amount to him and $10K to the DNC - raised money for the GELAC fund (over $30K). I stood on the night before election 15 ft behind the stage in Cleveland, Ohio after listening to Bruce Springsteen dedicate "No Surrender" and Kerry speak about how they were going to fight....

If this is his "fight" then, I guess I was really wrong....there I said it...and I thought I was going to have to wait till tommorrow to see if he had some backbone....I'm sick to my stomach right now....

:cry:
____________________________________________________________________
(Text of Kerry's Letter):

Dear ______:

No American citizen should wake up the morning after the election and worry their vote wasn't counted. No citizen should be denied at the polls if they are eligible to vote. And, as the greatest, wealthiest nation on earth, our citizens should never be forced to vote on old, unaccountable and non transparent voting machines from companies controlled by partisan activists.

Tomorrow, members of Congress will meet to certify the results of the 2004 presidential election. I will not be taking part in a formal protest of the Ohio Electors.

Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

But, that does not mean we should abandon our commitment to addressing those problems that happened in Ohio. We must act today to make sure they never happen again.

I urge you to join me in using this occasion to highlight our demand that Congress commit itself this year to reforming the electoral system. A Presidential election is a national federal election but we have different standards in different states for casting and counting votes. We need a national federal standard to solve the problems that occurred in the 2004 election. I will propose legislation to help achieve this.

Florida 2000 was a wake up call. But the Republicans who control Congress ignored it. Will they now ignore what happened in 2004?

There are nearly 3,000,000 of you receiving this email. We accomplished so much together during the campaign. Now let's use our power to make sure that at least one good thing comes from the voting rights problems of the 2004 election. If we want to force real action on election reform, we've got to demand that congressional leaders hold full hearings. Make sure they hear from you and help hold them accountable.

Speaker Dennis Hastert: 1-202-225-0600
Leader Bill Frist: 1-202-224-3135

And please report that you've made your call right here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/electoral_reform.php

I want every vote counted because Americans have to know that the votes they stood in line for, fought for, and strived so hard to cast in an election, are counted. We must make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. It's critical to our democracy that we investigate and act to prevent voting irregularities and voter intimidation across the country. We can't stand still as Congressional leaders seek to sweep well-founded voter concerns under the rug.

Please join with me in calling Speaker Hastert and Leader Frist and telling them that you want action on election reform now.

A recent report from Representative John Conyers (D-Michigan) reveals very troubling questions that have not yet been answered by Ohio election officials. I commend the Democratic National Committee for its announcement this week that the DNC will be investing resources and reaching out to non-partisan academics in a long term study of Ohio voting irregularities. I am only sorry that we haven't seen the same from Ohio Secretary of State Blackwell and GOP officials.

Congress must play a positive, proactive role on this issue. That's why I will soon introduce legislation to reform our election system, ensuring transparency and accountability in our voting system and that all Americans have an opportunity to vote and have their vote counted.

Please remember to let us know that you made your call when you're done. We're hoping to ensure House and Senate leaders' offices hear our demand for action on election reform in meaningful way. Please take a moment to let us know you have made your call here: http://www.johnkerry.com/signup/electoral_reform.php

Thank you,

John Kerry

P.S. Thanks to all those who participated in our USO "phone home" campaign last week. The totals are coming in from the USO, and they are thrilled with your generosity and support for our brave men and women in uniform. We will send you totals as we get them.


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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Am I reading this correctly?
Is he asking us to trust the republicans with election reform?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. That is how I read it....I literally got sick as I read that letter....
:hi: Child of Isis....

If you know my posts, you know I'm a loyal Kerry supporter...I just don't even know what to say right now...I also go with my intuition and I will say that for the first time ever, my feelings of Kerry were negative...Unless someone can point out how this is some "brilliant" strategy, I don't see this as a sign of his "worthiness" at all...

:cry:
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. I hung on to the "brilliant strategy" hope
for as long as I could also. So, I know how you feel.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
77. There's been a "brilliant strategy"
just behind the curtain for a long time now. Something so amazingly clever, that we simple rank and file party members couldn't even fathom it.
Well....it's 2005 and we're still waiting to see what the brilliant strategy might be.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:34 AM
Response to Reply #10
60. Same here. A Deanie, I switched to working for Kerry...
So true, Pachamamma and Child of Isis. I feel like I've been justifying Kerry ever since he got the nomination. He's a good man, with a good record, yeah I know he's lackluster, but he's Not Bush, he's intelligent, Teresa's a kick, and on and on.

I've literally felt sick for months now.

And now John Kerry is telling us we should trust the Republicans to enact election reform? Excuse me while I ROFLMAO and then go :puke: in a corner.

Hekate
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. Exactly. And he is certain that "it would make no difference"
....our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

WELL FREAKING EXCUSE ME!!! There is no possible way these superlawyers dispatched from Kerry HQ could POSSIBLY know that for sure. Saying it is so wrong it makes me sick to my stomach.

John Kerry is now old news, as far as I'm concerned. I will never put my trust in him again. I can't even imagine how the minorities who had their right to vote STOLEN feel about this. They not only are not going to trust Kerry, they are freaking not going to trust the whole Democratic Party unless enough other Democrats work hard enough to turn this around and expose the fraud and impeach the jerk violating the White House.

I'm from Massachusetts, and that means I'm going to continue seeing Kerry's face a lot whatever. That prospect makes me even sicker.

How can he POSSIBLY think he would be renominated in 2008? To me, that was always the most hopeful sign that there was really a "secret strategy" to save this stolen election. I hoped he wasn't blind enough to believe that he would be trusted if he backed away from "fighting for every vote" as he seemed to with his shamefully early concession. Well, looks like he WAS blind enough. Not such a savvy politician or gutsy fighter after all.
:cry:
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. I am sorry Pachamama. I can relate
to the feeling of utter bewilderment by this whole thing. What happened? Why won't he fight? And most of all, what happened to the GELAC fund? Did we get scammed?
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I seriously feel I/we were duped....I am absolutely stunned right now....
Don't even get me started on the GELAC fund...I gave serious cash and threw "Party's" to raise lots of money....and for what?

All I ever heard about were "we have 10's of thousands of lawyers on call" "Jet planes fueled and ready to go" "No surrender" "We are expecting problems, in particular in Ohio and we are ready" etc. etc.

And what do we get? A guy who in less than 24 hours "concedes"....then this?

I'm so upset right now, I can't stand it....Even though I believe he won, if he isn't going to stand up and fight for us and the Presidency, then he never deserved it and never will....

I am so mad right now I can't stand it...

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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. I wonder about a lot of those things and hope I am wrong about
all of them. We all got behind him, even if he wasn't our first choice from the very begining because we believed in him and we knew how important this election was.
I wonder if we were duped too? Skull and Bones? Who the hell knows? All I know is that he goes on with his safe senate seat and hear we are, hanging out in the breeze.
I have wondered in the last two months what our side must have felt when Nixon won. I was too young to know what was really going on then.
I'm optimistic about tomorrow but fear we are four years too late because they are brazen now. It needs to stop. And it seems that some of our side seems to be in cahoots with them.
Anyway, sorry for the ramble.
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
29. I gave my first born,
well, my only born ;-) My 17 year old hit the phone banking right along with the rest of us. Her and a group of school friends worked after school. And they were horribly crushed and disillusioned when he conceded.
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aikido15 Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
42. Yeah, I got this e-mail today also...
I deleted it.
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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
47. What a piece of shit he is. A publicity hound - as if he's a leader now in
the senate.

I unsubscribed from his e mails.

And I agreee, it was a vote against the fascists, not for him, and I also worked my ass off and donated more than I ever have....

Notice Edwards doesn't have a thing to do with him.

I think he took Edwards in too, that Edwards believed he was going to
fight and then sent Edwards out to the public to tell that he wasn't going to.

I wouldn't support the democratic party for anything anymore.

We need a new viable party.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
69. He better sit down in '08 too
I know what this is all about---He plans to stay silent in '04 with the hopes of running again in '08. But I can't and won't support a man who doesn't stand up for the civil rights of Americans--seems as though he doesn't have time to be bothered since he doesn't think the investigation will go his way.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. "I am deeply concerned"
"But not enough to actually object." I am disappointed, but not surprised.
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salib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. OK, so where are all the apologists here?
Huh? Where are ya:
pstans
arnheim
emulatorloo (what is that?)
FreepFryer
bunny planet

etc.

He is a WIMP! We will never do the right thing when we pile up behind a WIMP! Hey, I admit that I supported a wimp.

It is not a question of winning or losing. That is THEIR logic, not ours. It is doing the right thing. Kerry does not do the right thing, then these most high stakes chips are thrown down.

Pathetic!
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Rockerdem Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. I hope that he secured a deal or something for this rollover
Maybe he got a promise to cochair hearings into voter fraud and machine fraud in return for taking this damned powder. I'll reserve judgment. If he got nothing, I'll have choice words to say later.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I don't know if there is a later. If we can't
get the voting straight, where does that leave us?
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jimfromthebronx10469 Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. up shits creek.....
:shrug: :mad: :mad: :mad: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: to john kerry:hi: :dem:
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
54. Do you really believe that there might be a deal?
Let's be honest...If there was a deal they'd back out and claim there never was one. They'd call Kerry a liar, etc.
If he made one, he's a jackass. You can't trust the pukes.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. Look dammit!...Kerry will be in Iraq -- and you can't beat that while
the Ohio votes is challendged! The press will want to interview him about his trip to Iraq and the recent Ohio electoral challendges and they can't! awwwww....

This isn't about K-e-r-r-y! {for now}-- just allow the process to proceed!

We're dealing with scumbag Rove & Co. and you have to beat him at his own game!
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Then why didn't we do it on Nov. 2? We conceded on
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 12:58 AM by mountainvue
Nov. 3. I still have faith that this was not okay with Edwards. I'd have a hard time believing that.
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Child_Of_Isis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. I was under the impression
that Edwards was not happy about the concession. The news would come on and say that Kerry was conceding, then it was Edwards says "No". This went on for awhile. Back and forth.
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lavenderdiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'm pissed...
I just checked my e-mail, and I got this letter from Kerry too. I read it and am steamed! I thought the same thing about his wanting to change the voting process and make sure the votes are counted, but WHERE has he been and why isn't he making a stand about what happened in Ohio? In his letter, he states that his 'legal team on the ground in Ohio' has found troublesome discrepancies, etc. (my words), but not enough to change the end result. I just don't get this. He billed himself as someone who would fight for us, as someone who 'had our back too', but where is he now? I sure won't be voting for him in 2008, if he runs. Also, what happened to all that money his campaign endlessly e-mailed us about (approx. $15 million), to help FIGHT what he knew would be coming from the Repubs after the election? From what I've seen, nothing has been done, at least nothing approaching that vast sum. Think what we would have been able to accomplish if he had just come forward and actually used that money in the way his campaign said it would use it. I guess he's just not the fighter for us that I thought he was. I made the mistake of believing him...
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
18. He's not a wimp. He is a member of the power structure.

He did not and will not do anything to threaten his position.

He IS wealth and is married to wealth. That puts him in the power elite. Do you think he will do anything to go against his fellow power brokers?

He did not during the campaign and will not now.

We cannot depend on *any* of the leaders of the democratic party. It is DEAD as far as I'm concerned. It cares nothing about us, the working people of the country, or the world.

We need entirely new leadership from the grassroots up. I think we will not get it from the party as presently constituted. In my experience, even the democratic executive committees are part of the power structure.

The party might as well merge with the republicans. It would be more honest and give us a chance to form a new true democratic party.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. WHAT DID MY ONLY CHILD DIE FOR?
What did he die for?

A "leader" who lays down and dies?

Reading this garbage from Mr. Ketchup, I'm back in tears, how can I sleep tonight after reading this? I can't stop crying even as I write this! I've paid the ultimate price for the insanity of Jesusistas with my only child dead at 19 in a war that I never wanted him to join. A life ruined...

John Kerry, WHY DID YOU MAKE A BONESMAN DEAL WITH BUSH? WHY?

I can't take any more of this. I've had it. All my faith in America is lost. I want out of Jesusland.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
37. I'm sorry.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
48. Please...
I can't bear it! Please accept my sympathy and tears for you and your child.

Here, all I can do is quote this:

"Do not stand at my grave and weep,
I am not there, I do not sleep.

I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glint on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.

When you wake in the morning hush,
I am the swift, uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight.
I am the soft starlight at night.

Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there, I do not sleep.
(Do not stand at my grave and cry.
I am not there, I did not die!)"


Text by Mary Frye
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mazzarro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
56. I am truly sorry
Please take haert and know that we are all with you in our prayers. The democratic party is no longer my party; Iwill join the Green party and will hope that that a lot of us will make the leap out of the democratic party to the Green. Yes lets start to build our own party with the Green party.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #56
71. The Green Party isn't the solution.
Working to take California out of Jesusland IS the solution. Hopefully other states will follow.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #20
61. Zanti, I'm so sorry
So many of us worked so long and hard to stop * from invading Iraq, and we worked so long and hard to get * out of the WH. And we failed.

I'm so sorry for your loss that words cannot express it. As I write this tears are running down my face for you...

Zanti, we won't stop opposing *. We won't forget.

Hekate
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Pam-Moby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
78. The Zanti Regent
I am so sorry. I wish I could hug you right now. We are all sorry.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. he was the nominee and he can just....
take what is coming....however it comes.

I don't pay much attention to what kerry is up to.

we have our work cut out for us.
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
28. I hate to say "I told you so"
Edited on Thu Jan-06-05 01:12 AM by Prisoner_Number_Six
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3days Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
30. I suggest if you got this letter then you unsubscribe from his list
I did it tonight and that was one hard thing for me to do.
I believed in him as well.
I am saddened beyond compare.
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. I was die hard Kerry voter...
TOO! I was very deeply sadden when I received his email today... However, I will NOT surrender to THUGS! I am willing to switch to 3rd party!!! Howard Dean should start the 3rd party grass-roots!!!
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3days Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. I am in no way saying that anyone should surrender
I think that some serious groundswelling needs to and will happen with all the disenfranchised and f'd over folks tonight.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
32. Kerry is the candidate people voted for if he is out of it
Let Edwards be the presidential candidate!!!
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NorthernSun Donating Member (324 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. Six senators/no quarum
Thats weird, Oberman claims 6 senators are planning to join rebellion
and may not have a quarum for vote.

At www.timnews.com



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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Bush said to Kerry : "you can run, but you cant hide"...
Looks like he was wrong- Kerry can run AND hide.
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aikido15 Donating Member (637 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. That is weird...
I thought they only needed one?
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. You only need one...
But, it's better to have more!!! More is better!!! Volume speaks loudest!!!
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
46. Hmmm sounds like some Republicans aren't going to be there
this is very embarassing for Bush and for Kerry!!!

But this really is about how the people of Ohio voted and if Kerry doesn't participate then maybe Edwards will support his fellow democrats!!!

I'm wondering what kind od DEMOCRAT Kerry is???
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ticapnews Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
43. I wish I could say I was surprised...
"Florida 2000 was a wake up call. But the Republicans who control Congress ignored it. Will they now ignore what happened in 2004?"

Why the phuck would they change it? THEY WON!

Once a Bonesman, always a Bonesman.

Thanks Senator. I have to go get some KY now.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
49. kerry just voted for bush--if he didn't actually do so on election day--
and he again voted for bush the second he conceded the election to bush so early on in the game. i voted for kerry. i had hopes on kerry. in my journey i went from actually not liking kerry to thinking that he was actually a swell guy. i am back to ... well, i am disappointed in kerry and won't say more for fear that my post might be deleted.
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Kerry and the Iraq Invasion
Senator Kerry was here in Iowa, in my town twice and I was never satisfied with his replies when I asked him why we were not leaving Iraq since no WMD had been found. This was before the caucuses here and we were for Dean but just wanted to get Kerry's response. He said we would still be looking for the WMD. For some time. I wanted to get in another question but he just kept on talking until nearly everyone there had forgotten what I had asked in the first place. All the candidates came to our town. I liked Kucinich's appearance here the best. He, at least, would not have let us down so badly. Also the part of Iowa I live in is hyper-blue.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. hello hardrada and welcome to DU...
it is painful and disappointing when politicians don't answer our questions or pretend they haven't heard us, or give us a canned answer, or just go on talking without ever really fully answering the question... i wonder if at any point in their heart of hearts, when that happens, they ever say to themselves, "today I didn't do the right thing".

I know people who liked kucinich a lot--and i wonder how the elections results might have been different if howard dean had gotten the nomination.

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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. Thanks, Flordehinojos, for your welcome.
My thought is that Kerry did not have the Art of Political Rhetoric down pat and thus was too perceptibly meandering along blowing smoke. I have been fascinated by other politicians who are a lot better at this (I won't go into who they are) and who can weave utter contradictions into a smooth and seamless reply uttered with all apparent guileless innocence. They disappoint too, of course, but you admire them as you would admire exotic poisonous lizards.

I liked Kucinich and Dean because they answered my questions directly. They also took account of those of us at the pre-caucus assemblies as something more than ciphers or spear-carriers who might sometimes shout out some impertinence from the ranks.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. I watched Kerry speak many times
I was always baffled as to how he never talked to people.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
50. Translation:
I've got mine, good luck surviving what's coming
to everyone else.
Oh, and screw you Conyers and the brave senators
who are going to do what I should be there to do.
Tra-la-la-la-la
And he disappears into the corporate elite sunset singing,

"Oh it's nice to be a millionaire
traipsing the world without a care
Sorry to hear about your loss
Now bow to Bush, I won, he lost
oh well...
do tell...
so sad...
Too bad..."

BHN
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farmboxer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
52. I Am "Very" Disappointed!
I really don't understand this! I can't even think of any words that can describe this!
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #52
59. I'm with you
I cannot say that I understand his motives in this matter.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. What happened to "I got your back"?
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
58. Oh. My. God. And the Republicans "seem eager for it"?
I don't even know where to start, but how about this?

> Such a debate could prove uncomfortable for Democrats,
> who do not want to be viewed as sore losers.
> But Republicans seemed eager for it.

Sure, why wouldn't the Repubs be eager? After all, the Dems are still allowing them to frame the debate. The Repubs can go on all day with variations on schoolyard taunts: "Neener neener neener. Yer a sore loooooooser."

I feel so unbelievably betrayed by my party at the national level.

We'll see who steps forward in the morning aside from the Congressional Black Caucus, whose party ;-) I'm joining.

One of my friends was on the phone with Conyers' staff earlier this week, and apparently they were pretty nice about talking with someone not a constituent. The question our local activist group had for them was how much pressure should we be putting on our own congressional representative, who has been reliably sympathetic to us.

The answer was interesting, and something I hope whoever reads this will take to heart. First, our rep is needed where she is with whatever alliances she can forge intact; she's committed to preserving Social Security and expanding health care and she shouldn't be pressured to stick her neck out too far for this issue. There, so much for that.

Second, John Conyers sees his role in election reform as a very long-term project, which he took on in 2000 and has been plugging away at ever since. No matter who stands with him on Thursday, the battle will NOT by any means be over. IT'S NOT OVER for him, and it shouldn't be for us.

As for John Kerry, the DLC, the DNC, and all the Dem pundits on panel discussions from November 3 onward -- I fail to understand how, under the circumstances, they can talk appeasement the way they do. Objecting to the Ohio vote and slowing down the ratification of the Electoral College votes will not "precipitate a Constitutional crisis," as so many newspaper columnists have opined. We are ALREADY IN a Constitutional crisis, precipitated by the Supreme Court's bloodless coup d'etat following the election of 2000.

DUers, we and the progressive community have much to be proud of. We formed a new and powerful on-line constituency whose potential is only now beginning to be realized. We reached off-line into our local communities and became activists there. We raised many millions of dollars in small donations. We have indeed been sucker-punched -- but IT'S NOT OVER. As Governor Dean says, "You have the power!"

I worked for Howard Dean's campaign, then for Kerry. I'll never work for Kerry again, but I hope John Edwards and his wife will feel up to a second run for the office in 2008.

Hekate
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Borgnine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
64. Screw you Kerry.
I liked you. I supported you. I defended you. I believed in you.

Too bad you're really the spineless oppurtunist your opponents painted you as. But hey, thanks for the Christmas card.
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JMS825 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
65. Lets remind Kerry that he is worse than Bush
The way I see it Kerry quit on us so why challenge Bush to put Kerry in office? Kerry gets in eventhough he gave up on us whose to say he quit on us again? Lets repay the favor and make sure Kerry does not have a chance in '08....Hillary has my vote in '08 but if Kerry runs I wont even vote and may just give up voting anymore. Bush is an idiot but at least he aint quiting on his people
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JMS825 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:42 AM
Response to Original message
66. I wrote Kerry a nice little letter thanking him for bailing on us
I'm am ashamed to have voted for you


I voted for you. I supported you. I defended you. How do you repay me? You bail on me when you know the election was plagued. Perhaps Bush was right when he described you as a quitter. Who is to say if you was elected you wouldn't have bailed on America like you did on your party. Why should we challenge the election to put you in cause obviously you didn't want to be in the White-house. In '08 Hillary has my vote and mark my words I will make sure people are reminded how you bailed on your party and on your supporters!!!
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JMS825 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. I also wrote the DNC a lil letter
How do you select Kerry as your canidate? I am so ashamed of my party now to pick someone who bailed on his supporters if he gets picked again in '08 then the republicans just picked up another vote. I wrote Kerry a letter letting him know my feelings and here is a copy. I voted for you. I supported you. I defended you. How do you repay me? You bail on me when you know the election was plagued. Perhaps Bush was right when he described you as a quitter. Who is to say if you was elected you wouldn't have bailed on America like you did on your party. Why should we challenge the election to put you in cause obviously you didn't want to be in the White-house. In '08 Hillary has my vote and mark my words I will make sure people are reminded how you bailed on your party and on your supporters!!!
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DRoseDARs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
70. Screw Kerry and the horse he thinks he's riding on...
...He was warned over and over that there would be funny business on Election Day before it came. He was warned over and over that there was funny business on Election Day as it proceeded. He was warned over and over that there was funny business on Election Day as it passed. We needed him to grow a goddamn spine before this happened, while this happened, after this happened and now it's presumably too late. You want to "make nice" with the Republican majority for the next two years? Good luck with that, Senator "Blew His Chance" Kerry. You'll need it.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out...
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
72. You cannot TRUST anyone that has served in DC
for any length of time. They are ALL corrupted before they ever hit the congress or administration or else they leave during their first term (appointees).

The only viable candidate is one that has never served in DC in any manner.

I support one term and out FOREVER for all national offices. If you are elected to the Senate ok, one term and back to civilian life not on to the presidency, if you are a clerk in the DOD, ok, you can never run for national office or work for a corporation that has anything to do with the Federal Govt or start your own company selling anything to the Federal Govt. I believe this is the ONLY way to clean up our government and the restrictions would only be part of your "sacrifice" to America.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
73. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
stefanw28 Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
74. why does Kerry do this? looks like the SwiftBoatLiars were right
I'm so sick that Bush will be around for 4 more years. Kerry is running and hiding, I think Howard Dean should be the candidate next time because the Washington DC democrats simply don't get it :-(
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newblewtoo Donating Member (332 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. Dean, Swifties and DLC
I have said it before and I will say it again. John Kerry was the perfect candidate for Karl Rove. Rove and company stole this election during the primaries. Remember why Clinton was the 'Come back kid ' (Hint: it was not because he won the NH primary in '92).
Dean had popular support. Kerry was just ABB. Rove and co. must have known about the two hundred plus Swifts well in advance. Kerry had to know too, he had contacted many of them. Were we set up to fail. Kinda smells like it.
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #74
81. Oh they get it, They dont want to stop getting it
"I'm so sick that Bush will be around for 4 more years. Kerry is running and hiding, I think Howard Dean should be the candidate next time because the Washington DC democrats simply don't get it :-("

Jeopardize their meal ticket for democracy, dont count on it from this group.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
75. "Deeply concerned"
Whew...for a minute there I was worried that he wasn't deeply concerned.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
76. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
80. I now have ZERO respect for Kerry, just another Dino. eom
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Career Prole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-06-05 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
82. Bogus Election Results to Be Certified, With Little Fuss From Media
EOFM!
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