Gunman Loose at Landmark Crystal Cathedral

[DoYouEverWonder]

December 17, 2004

GARDEN GROVE, Calif. (AP) - A gunman opened fire in the complex housing the world-famous Crystal Cathedral on Thursday, but no one was hit and children in a church day-care center were rushed to safety, police said.

A police SWAT team quickly surrounded the gleaming glass-and-steel cathedral and its surrounding buildings, and a police spokesman, possibly a disgruntled cathedral employee, said the gunman was holed up inside an office.

"Everyone's fine and we're just trying to contain him now and find out what the problem is," police Lt. Mike Hanfield told KCBS-TV. He said police officers had made telephone contact with the man and were trying to talk him into surrendering.

The man fired several shots with a handgun shortly before 5 p.m., less than two hours before the cathedral's annual ``Glory of Christmas'' holiday show was to begin, police said. Authorities didn't know what prompted the gunfire.

Hanfield described the man as ``distraught, disgruntled'' and said he may have been a temporary worker.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4678250,00.html

[Nikepallas]

1. Interesting... How will Fundies twist this one.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. I'm glad they got the kids out

I wonder what the guys pissed off about?

[Sugarbleus]

8. It's "Christian Persecution", see

:eyes:

[Demeter]

2. Saw That Place Once

What a waste of silicon.

[alexisfree]

4. maybe he is looking for superman

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. MSM Link

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-church-shooting,0,3038225.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[goclark]

6. Glad everyone was safe

Rev. Schuller is a Republican , right?

Isn't he the one that was drunk on the plane and he made some inappropriate comments to the flight attendants.

My memory is slipping on this.


I did attend the "Glory Of Christmas" one year and it was spectacular!

[Piperay]

14. Schuller presided over Hubert Humphrey's

funeral and HH thought very highly of him. Schuller could be a repub maybe he is one of those old fashioned kind (the kind that are almost extinct now) who actually believes that Democrats are human beings and not evil godless perverts (the way most of them feel about us now).

[tanyev]

20. Schuller has ties to Rev Moon.

He just hides it behind that "Positive Christianity."

[Piperay]

29. Yikes

:puke: I didn't know that, UGH.

[goclark]

32. That doesn't surprise me at all

When I am inside that church I feel funny.

I was there about 10 years ago and it felt OK.

Now it feels like it has the Moonie /Born Again touch.

They have so much money and it appears to be more White( more than 99 3/4%)than before.


I believe that the son could be a Rethug. Now that Daddy is getting older it appeared to me that Sonny Boy is in charge.

[flygal]

15. I had him on a flight to Cabo once and we had to cut him off

He was sneaking wine into the lav. He was pretty friendly - sat in coach all by himself. But jeebus what a lush - the passengers all recognized him and were cracking up at how many times he walked back to the beverage cart **drinky drinky**

[w4rma]

16. I think he's a Democrat, but I think his son is a Republican. (nt)

[Algorem]

24. Schuller attacked flight attendant on plane,he was on way to memorial

service for Malcolm X's wife(?) http://www.thesmokinggun.com/altitude/thursday1.html http://www.pfo.org/negday.htm

[Logansquare]

37. Yes, the "Fruit Salad" incident. He choked the flight attendant (male)

because he refused to remove some kind of fruit from the fruit cocktail. He later explained his actions by saying that he was just trying to "help" the flight attendant.

[soup]

7. Glad nobody was hurt.

How weird is it that the police spokesman was possibly a disgruntled cathedral employee?

>A police SWAT team quickly surrounded the gleaming glass-and-steel cathedral and its surrounding buildings, and a police spokesman, possibly a disgruntled cathedral employee, said the gunman was holed up inside an office.<

:crazy:

[daleo]

13. Think of it as a humorous gift from Santa clause. n/t

[KingChicken]

9. He wants a better religion... nt

[Tight_rope]

17. ROTFLMBAO~~~~~~~~~

[Lefta Dissenter]

10. There's just gotta be a joke in here

about people in glass houses... :D

[Javaman]

11. Don't shoot off your mouth in glass cathedrals?

[IronLionZion]

12. or your gun?

don't molest children either...remember kids, it's not just a sin, it's a felony. :P

[Rose Siding]

18. Update: Gunman Kills Self at Crystal Cathedral

snip>
Police had been attempting for several hours to get in touch with the man when he killed himself just before 2 a.m., Prince said. He had first gone alone to an office, and later moved to the bathroom where he shot himself.

Police declined to identify the man except to say he was a full-time cathedral employee, a member of its choir and in his 50s. They said he had threatened to harm himself throughout the standoff.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-church-shooting,0,7248558.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Wonder why they won't ID him?

Or even describe him?

Fundie gone bad or an illegal immigrant?

[Lefta Dissenter]

27. .

I take back what I said about a joke. People being desperate enough to kill themselves just isn't funny. :(

[doubleplusgood]

21. he was the orchestra conductor

Maybe all those years of conducting modern "praise" music finally took their toll ?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20041217/ap_on_re_us/church_shooting

[NNN0LHI]

22. Guns, god, and glass, just don't mix real well

The fundies should have thought of that.

Don

[bigtime]

23. link to press release from Crystal Cathedral

http://www.crystalcathedral.org/News/index.html

[Theres-a]

25. good show

about 10 years ago,i used to watch the tv show they had on sundays.it was pretty feelgood stuff.not like the fundies at all.during that time i went to a few churches,but got turned off by how they seemed to encourage judging others over self-examination.funny about his drunken behavior,i agree,but ive also studied the teachings of a rinpoche(cant recall his name,but he had some really good stuff to say)who was rarely seen without some wine on hand.

[Felix Mala]

26. It was the musical director and their Christmas show was supposed

to have been Thursday night. I guess he was twisted up pretty tight.

"And that third shepherd keeps starting a half-beat early!!!"

Good thing the Prince of Peace came to earth to ease our anxiety.

[Occulus]

28. WTF?

but, more importantly, WHY did this happen?

[Missy Vixen]

30. This was not the first time this guy

>but, more importantly, WHY did this happen?<

had tried to harm himself.

I know why it happened, but I'm a recovering fundy. Let's see here: My money's on clinical depression that he and his bosses at the CC thought they could "pray away". After all, they don't need no newfangled therapy or to have the poor guy take some medication that might help. If he trusted God enough, God would heal his depression, right?

When I was still in the church world, a severely depressed friend killed himself. This guy was so beloved that his death forced a lot of people to wake up and realize that they needed help.

My thoughts are with this guy and his family. Depression kills, Dr. Schuller. You might want to muse on that before your next sermon.

Julie

[Piperay]

31. On the news they said

he was 'despondent'.

[goclark]

33. Sounds like there is more to this story

That is one Mega Church, worth millions and money is flowing constantly.

It is simply beautiful. so perfect. Or so it seems.

Isn't it amazing that Fundies don't admit that they have problems and they are real people like the rest of us.

May he rest in peace.

Maybe this event will allow members of all churches to get help for people that are "despondent" and not put all the solutions in the hands of God.

[Missy Vixen]

34. The short explanation

>Isn't it amazing that Fundies don't admit that they have problems and they are real people like the rest of us.<

They can't.

To admit failure is to admit that one doesn't have the power of God working in his or her life, that one is not filled with the Spirit, that one is not "right with God." To admit failure is to admit that it just isn't working. Better pray harder and give more money.

There's a lot of posturing and playacting in these churches. Don't kid yourself. It's all about who you know and whether or not you gave a lot to the building program. Also, have you ever heard the phrase "you're only as sick as your secrets"? Mega-churches are full of those who conceal their sins and think that nobody will ever find out. The guy who killed himself was a Church Leader. (Those caps are purposeful, BTW. He was Important.) He couldn't show any sign of failure. Ohhhh, nooooo. I'm sure that after the first incident, he had a few "counseling sessions" with those who wanted to "tell him the truth in love", but didn't want to actually help him.

Again, I am sad for the now deceased man and his family. I'm only sorry that it seems nobody stepped forward to help before the tragic events of the other day.

Julie

[johnfunk]

35. Music director Johnnie Carl, terrific talent, manic-depressive history

Johnnie Carl was an enormously talented working musician. Carl arranged and conducted music for concerts and recordings by the likes of Celine Dion and John Tesh. He had a reputation as a complete musician's musician -- a fast study, a flair for understanding the nuts and bolts of inventive orchestration.

He also had a history of manic-depressive disorder, and in recent days it had become severe. At his age, it is sometimes the result of an underlying metabolic condition. Schuller talked about it in one wire service report: "A disease killed him -- just like a cancer, can come back when no one expects it."

It's also worth noting that the Crystal Cathedral has had and retains far and away a reputation for the best and most innovative music program of any church in the televangelism biz. This is largely due to Carl -- but other major musicians have also been affiliated with the Crystal Cathedral, for example legendary organist Virgil Fox (a name that is instantly familiar to serious classical music lovers).

I've been troubled by Schuller's ties to Moon, but in recent years I have the distinct impression that he has backed away from the Korean megalo-messiah-wannabe.

[fortyfeetunder]

36. read Johnnie Carl's website

I thought something was terribly wrong with this message string so ventured into Johnnie Carl's website www.johnniecarl.com This man was a prolific sacred music composer and arranger and talented musician. What a loss.