Documents secretly encoded by color printers

[coyote]

snip...


WASHINGTON--Next time you make a printout from your color laser printer, shine an LED flashlight beam on it and examine it closely with a magnifying glass. You might be able to see the small, scattered yellow dots printer there that could be used to trace the document back to you.

According to experts, several printer companies quietly encode the serial number and the manufacturing code of their color laser printers and color copiers on every document those machines produce. Governments, including the United States, already use the hidden markings to track counterfeiters.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1093&e=4&u=/pcworld/20041122/tc_pcworld/118664

[TheDebbieDee]

1. Interesting......I'm filing that little tidbit away for future reference.

Thanks for the info.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

2. Pay with cash so it can't be traced back

Cash is nameless and therefore can't help build up the Patriot Act Database.

[HereSince1628]

12. So true, but it is somewhat limiting.

I haven't figured out how to pay an on-line provider without identifying myself. Money order, check or credit card all seem traceable

[Liberaltarian]

19. try a postal money order...

you don't need to show id to purchase one- pay for it with cash.

[HereSince1628]

28. I am not sure that is true.

I might be wrong but...

I had to book a room in London, which I did in a nice B&B in North Hampstead, but the place in London required an international money order.

I paid for it at a US post office and got in return a form, which included many identifying fields, had to be sent to a second postal office to actually generate the postal money order that paid the people in London.

[Liberaltarian]

33. I buy them all the time without showing ID...

International money order rules might be a whole other ball game, though, as I would expect it to be.
I don't know why one would be so concerned with secrecy about getting a room at a B&B in England...is there someone other than a spouse accompanying you on the trip...?

[leftchick]

3. so would they only have the printer info if you use the warranty?

How else would they know who gets the machine? :shrug:

~snip~

"The industry absolutely has been extraordinarily helpful ," Pagano says.


According to Pagano, counterfeiting cases are brought to the Secret Service, which checks the documents, determines the brand and serial number of the printer, and contacts the company. Some, like Xerox, have a customer database, and they share the information with the government.


Crean says Xerox and the government have a good relationship. "The U.S. government had been on board all along--they would actually come out to our labs," Crean says.

[Cronus Protagonist]

5. If you paid with a credit card, you're busted

Warranty or no. All stores track which serial number goes with which order so that if you return someon elses older or broken item for a replacement, it won't match. With the serial number along with your credit card number, you would be easily traceable.

And don't forget the possibility that there's an RFID permanently mounted inside the machine too.... brrrrrrrrrr


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
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[leftchick]

9. that is what puzzles me...

The store that sold the printer would have to be in on this as well then right? Do all stores that sell these printers supply customer info back to the machines manufacturer? Or am I clearly being a dimbulb here?

[makhno]

11. Well

The manufacturer knows the distributor that received the printer with the serial number, and the distributor knows what store they shipped the printer to. The store then has a record of the sale with both the serial and the credit card numbers.

Scary stuff. Don't use your credit card for purchases that you think might be objectionable today or in the sadly not so distant future.

[Cronus Protagonist]

13. Not necessarily, unfortunately

The sales data from most large retailers is combined, linked to people and mined by other large companies and sold to other as targeted lists. The GOP and the DNC used these data mining companies this last election to target lots of different types of people.

Basically, once you tag your own numbers with the equipment's serial number, the information goes into a connection-making system that aggregates all your personal information together, creating a profile of you. If the serial number was part of the transaction, and it would be, it would be connected to you in the huge systems these mining companies use.

Cash purchases made while wearing a disguise (cameras), from a walk-in store (don't take your car - cameras again) are the only anonymous purchases now.

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[makhno]

16. I was wondering...

...do you know of or have any links related to the sharing of sales data by credit card companies with other entities, particularly insurance companies? I've been making an effort to avoid purchasing food or alcohol with my credit card, because I have little doubt that if it isn't done now, your purchase history will be an integral part insurance rate calculations.

[Cronus Protagonist]

24. You are correct to work from the principle that it's being shared.

Because it is. I saw a TV report on it just after the election where the two parties used data mining companies to select out voters based on incredibly detailed criteria.

I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to pull a report on one person with all the data sorted and compiled chronologically. It's all there for the taking.


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[GemMom]

31. Don't bother with those

store "discount" cards as well. The big grocers in this area (Chicago) are Dominick's and Jewel - they both have store cards that essentially mine the data that their bar coder reads. IF you don't use that card ("Oops, it's on my key ring at home...") they'll give you the discount anyway using the clerk's own register # and IF you pay in cash, they can't track the items you purchase as well. All that aside, I tend to buy groceries at the mom and pop shops around here and NOT the big shops.

[GemMom]

30. STOP RFID

http://www.spychips.com/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/03/01/german_revolt_against_rfid/
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1947
http://www.stoprfid.org/rfid_overview.htm

[Cronus Protagonist]

4. Rate that highly - I bet it's not widely known.

...oh, and don't make fliers with your inkjet printer... or if you do, photocopy it afterwards at a copy machine that's not under a camera...

brrrrrrrrrr


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Journeyman]

6. Does anyone here see this encoding on your documents? . . .

I have a Xerox Phaser 6250 -- a high-end graphics printer -- and I just examined a couple of documents with an 8x magnifying glass and a 12x loupe. There's nothing there. The article does say "several printer companies," so maybe mine's not one of them, but for a home office printer it certainly has the capability to print a level of quality that, if the SS were looking for counterfeiting, would certainly fit the expectations.

(Disclaimer: Though I am in the print industry, and find humor in the old Mafia joke, 'The best way to make money is to make money,' I don't find the prospect of decades in prison appealing at all and so take the old-fashioned approach to making money: I earn it.)

Back to the original question: I find it difficult to believe a printer could "encode" a document without being somewhat visible to the end user. Anyone have a printer that does, in fact, show this encoding?

[leftchick]

10. if you are using Xerox it looks like the FBI knows you!

Good God... :scared:

~snip~
According to Pagano, counterfeiting cases are brought to the Secret Service, which checks the documents, determines the brand and serial number of the printer, and contacts the company. Some, like Xerox, have a customer database, and they share the information with the government.


Crean says Xerox and the government have a good relationship. "The U.S. government had been on board all along--they would actually come out to our labs," Crean says.

[Journeyman]

23. I have no doubt that Xerox knows me. . .

and it doesn't surprise me that they would share information with the government (though I am disappointed that such willful disregard for personal privacy is such a common occurrence in their corporate culture). What I question is the existence of this "encoded" identifier. If it truly exists, it would show up on everything I print. Yet I just sent a blank page, and a page with a cyan wash, and even under LED and blacklight, using two different forms of magnification, I can't see any stray yellow dots at all -- and this is on glossy stock at 2400 dpi.

[Liberaltarian]

20. it may not be an obvious thing...

I doubt that it would print any info in alph-numeric characters, because as you say- it would be obvious to an end user...
more likely, it's encoded in the way the dots are patterend in some part, or something like that.

[x_y_no]

37. Same here ...

I've got the Tektronix Phaser 860 (marketed by Xerox) and I don't see any encoding.

Of course, this is a wax deposition printer, not laser ... maybe that makes a difference.

[SoCalDem]

7. Use Kinkos..pay cash.. wear Groucho-glasses

or use someone else's copier..someone you don't like.. don't tell them :)

Why would the feds be interested in my bowling league newsletter anyway:shrug:

[American liberal]

14. LOL! eom

[LiberalFighter]

15. If you are going to use someone elses printer that you don't like

make sure they suspect that you might have even used it.

[Straight Shooter]

8. One more reason to buy used equipment

I'm waiting for someone to create the technology to override this invasive Big Brotherism.

What's next? The printer cartridge releases brainwave-altering spores into the atmosphere?

[LiberalFighter]

17. I heard about this maybe about a year ago

Don't have a need for color laser printer... with color laser you need 4 toner cartridges which adds up to big bucks. Like about $100 per.

I have a b/w laser which gives me just about everything I need.

[The_Urge]

18. Wow

They use these in conjunctions with Orbita Mind Control Lasers so that they turn you into an assassin with a simple phone call. Dont answer the phone.

[makhno]

21. Trust the government, right?

Funny how it becomes the freepers' mantra when your boys are in charge.

[Left in IL]

22. Serial #

Unless you fill out a warranty card, they will have no Idea of the serial # of your printer.

Unless the clerk who checked you out took the serial #, the only thing the clerk scanned was the UPC code, which is the same for every box.

The purpose for this is that if you do get busted, they can prove that all the fake money came from your printer.

Also, it would be possible to tell if fake money found in different locations all came from the same printer.

[Ima]

25. IIRC

Digital cameras do it also. Saw an article on it some where.

[radwriter0555]

26. RATS.

Foiled again.

[Javaman]

27. We have a new Xerox here at work and I just tried it...

I just happened to by a small blue light LED light the other day.
We have a Xerox Color Work Center 32 Printer/Copier.
I sent various copies through, b/w, color, color and b/w from both my printer and did the same at the copy machine.
I lit up the pages with my blue light, my co-workers were wondering what the hell I was doing, and I found nothing. I have very good eyesight.
Unless this is on certain machines, it wasn't on ours.

[Journeyman]

32. And as I posted above (#6 & #23), I checked on my Xerox 6250. . .

at the highest resolution, using a number of scenarios to exhibit this "encoding," and I can't see anything on my printout. I wonder if someone's just trying to game us, to induce paranoia and discourage use of our tools against them.

Just a thought. . .

[Liberaltarian]

34. and as i posted above...

i have serious doubts that they'd be "hiding" any info using ultra-miniature alpha-numeric characters- more likely it would be some type of encoding in the way the dots are laid out, or something like that.

[Journeyman]

36. The article specifically mentions "scattered yellow dots". . .

and I find no evidence of any yellow on my cyan, magenta, black or blank printouts. And yes, I'm familiar with digital watermarks and the like, so I didn't expect to find a 2 pt "Journeyman's Printer" in the lower right corner. I just find no evidence whatsoever with my printer that this is occuring -- and mine is a very high end laser printer, purchased less than a year ago.

[Carolab]

29. I use ink jet

So it runs out alot, who cares?

[yellowcanine]

35. Shit! I wish I had known that before I circulated that batch of 20s I ran

off last month!

[FlaGranny]

38. Just for the fun of it,

after seeing a story on TV about using printers to copy bills, I put a $10 bill in my ink jet printer and set it for the highest resolution. Now my ink jet printer prints out beautiful photographs in perfect color, but the bill came out muddy and discolored, some of which was the result of the cheaper paper I used I'm certain. It was so bad that no one could mistake it for real.