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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:02 PM
Original message
How long until we take to the streets?
Don't expect media to cover it either.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's hard to take to the streets when you have to drive to get there.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
213. You know, I've wondered about that
Aren't Greece and France much more dense in their urban areas than the US? Is that part of why giant damn protests aren't as much of a thing here?
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
268. Yep, if I could afford it, I would.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't expect media to cover it either.
Then we should first march on the media outlets, yes?

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. They never have
That's the rank truth.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Now, now, is that the sensible thing to do?
Let's not jump the gun.
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jtown1123 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Meaning what? Wait until the debt ceiling grand benefit cuts bargain goes through?
Shouldn't we speak up before it's too late?
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
228. Panhandle, and hope for change?
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 10:23 PM by Zorra
Or maybe move to the Mexican Riviera and get drunk on mojitos at the beach as I sorrowfully watch the US go to totally hell on TV Azteca?

Yeah, that seems like the most sensible thing to do.

Makes more sense than watching it first hand because I can't do a damn thing about it.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. To do what? n/t
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. TV still on? Beer still cold? If both, then "never". :-(. (NT)
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. How long until YOU take to the streets, nadin?
Post when you get there and let me know who else shows up, OK?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. + 1 n/t
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. why SDuderstadt, where you goin with that revolution?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. dionysus?
I didn't know you was back in town!
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dissidentboomer Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
123. Won't happen within the next few days or even
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:02 PM by dissidentboomer
years.... but I think it will happen within a decade, unless something drastic happens - discovery of a wonderful new energy source or fantastic technology. The elites have lost their sense of community and most of their desire to hold societies and cultures together. They appear FAR too short-sighted and profit driven to steer this ship away from the rocks and, don't look now.... but we ain't that far away from the rocks.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
141. +2 n/t
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Maybe when more take things seriously
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Like WI it will happen
When we can't predict...but soon
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Taking to the streets won't do good, they lived in walled off castles.
We have to take away their power, cut off their supplies, and stop their water supplies (to continue the castle analogy).
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. That's part of it
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Who are "they"? n/t
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Don't worry, you are not they.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. That's not what I asked...
who are "they"?
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. TPTB
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. And who are "TPTB"?
Kinda vague, isn't it?

Does this mean we are letting the NWO off the hook?
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Are you actually suggesting there aren't power brokers in DC?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Yes he does, regularly.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Absolutely...
I do.

If you prefer to believe that there are nameless, faceless people that control everything, that's your prerogative.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. Google Grover Norquist, the Koch brothers, etc.
Not exactly nameless, not exactly faceless, but with fingers in more interconnecting pies than you can trace.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. I'd add a few names to that
but yes, perfect answer.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. I know who they are...
do you really think they control everything?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. I am suggesting there aren't nameless, faceless...
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:21 PM by SDuderstadt
people that control everything that happens.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
64. The Narwhal Bacons at Midnight
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Wait Wut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
72. Them.
No, that was ants.

We? Crap...I think that was Anonymous.

They must be the other. No...scary kid from hell.



I'm not sure. But "they" sound pretty bad. We should probably do what we can to protect the village from them...er...they.

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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Obey, Consume.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
241. Global Warming is what they are trying to hide -- they seem to be in a frenzy to keep
America from recognizing what's going on with weather -- catastrophes all

around the country -- things are only going to get worse --

We need to remain non-violent --

and we need to figure out ways to uninvent the dollar bill -- !!

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glinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #241
289. They think money will buy them the mountaintops. They are hiding it from the people.
And they are causing it. They are like the rat that keeps running in a circle tread-milled cage. No offense to rats as I love rat pets dearly. And rats too I guess.
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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
11. I live on a dirt road. what will the concrete jungle do?
:shrug:
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. DUers Postpone Taking To The Streets For Yet Another Year
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
16. people took to the streets during Casey Anthony Trial
they even waited in long lines to try to get in the courtroom .

if people wanted they could do the same for other things. if they wanted to.

i don't know what you want people to take the the streets for though.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
18. I've never stopped taking it to the streets since 2003
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:10 PM by Downtown Hound
I'm still waiting for everybody who asks when we're going to take it to the streets to join me.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Well been there myself
And I stopped talking bout that here since it don't matter. Even posted photos of actions on my blog.

It's my frustration mostly.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. We need more militant action
People need to be willing to risk arrest and actually do something to shut the system down, not just march from point A to point B.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Ummm...
shut WHAT system down?
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #31
44. Capitalism, corporate America, the military industrial complex, Wall Street
call it what you want. Blockade the financial district. Blockade Faux news headquarters. Sit in at BP corporate offices. Anything and everything that makes life difficult for them. Don't let them rest.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #44
51. Please post photos of you doing this!
We need inspiration.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Videos would be...
even better. Especially of the "seat inns".
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #51
73. Okay here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV1mHXqmi-o

I'm the guy in light blue jeans and black shirt that jumps out of a cop's way after my fellow protester threw his tear gas canister back at him at time frame 1:58.

Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1SzihxCRY

I helped blockade San Francisco's civic center after the State Supreme Court upheld prop 8 two years ago. I'm not in this video but I was there and was arrested. I posted about it on DU the day it happened.

I also was arrested blockading the financial district of SF during the Day X protests when the Iraq War broke out. No youtube video of it but there were 2200 of us that got arrested and we put such a strain the the locl governemtn that they had to plead with us to stop what we were doing because they couldn't afford to keep us all in jail and police the protests.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. Who elected you? n/t
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #78
84. When did I ever claim I was elected?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #84
94. Didn't say you did...
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:48 PM by SDuderstadt
You have every right to assemble peacefully and petition the government for a redress of grievances.

That does not include "shutting down" the Civic Center or the Financial District.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #94
105. The government of Bush was illegitimate and illegal
and engaging in war crimes. I guess you think the Egyptian people had no right to do what they did by rising up against their oppressors? If the government followed its own laws then maybe I would obey them. If it doesn't, don't expect me to either.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. I don't respond to...
silly strawman arguments.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #107
117. In other words, you have no intellignet response.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:57 PM by Downtown Hound
Given that I didn't use a strawman.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #117
126. Actually...
you did.

I guess you think the Egyptian people had no right to do what they did by rising up against their oppressors?
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #126
130. Yeah, and how is that a strawman?
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:04 PM by Downtown Hound
If you believe it's okay for them to resist, then why not us? That's a perfectly legitimate question.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:11 PM
Original message
I never said a word about the Egyptians, yet..
you put words in my mouth. That's the strawman.

As far as the Egyptians are concerned, revolting against a dictatorship is far different than revolting against a democracy.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
150. Bush was not legitimately elected. He stole power.
He launched an illegal war. He ordered the use of torture. He stripped Americans of their civil rights. How is he not a dictator?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #150
155. If he was a dictator...
how come there was an orderly transition of power after the election of 2008?

You need to look up the definition of dictator. And, as unfair as the election of 2000 was, Bush, by no means, "stole" it.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #155
156. Um, yes, he did.
Kicking legitamte voter off of voter rolls is called stealing an election. And even dictators sometimes step down when they realize that their day is done.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #156
157. Ummm...
no, he didn't. And, it's silly to call him a dictator. Just plain silly.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #157
160. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
CleanGreenFuture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #155
179. n/m
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 05:03 PM by CleanGreenFuture
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #78
288. Poor SDuderstadt
He didn't even have time to circle the drain.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #73
88. Thanks. I will certainly give you credit for being there.
It did appear to me that the cops were running things there, though, in that first video. It didn't appear that any thing lasting happened.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #88
148. "It didn't appear that any thing lasting happened."
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:42 PM by Downtown Hound
That was just the beginning. Protests like that went on for the entire week. Want to see?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORTTwN5HZpg&feature=rela...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n33GqksdqA&feature=rela...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkCgamw46AU&feature=chan...

This was all during the weekend the war broke out. And this is only a small taste of what the city looked like. Do know how big the crowd was in that first video I showed you, the one that I was in? About 500 give or take. 500. And we managed to drive One of San Francisco's busiest streets to a halt. Imagine what we could do if we had 50,000? Or 500,000? Or five million?

Everytime you protest, it draws police resources. Every times somebody gets arrested it draws even more city resources. Everytime you shut an enterprise down, even if for a few hours, that's revenue that it's not making. But the end of the Day X protests, we had so strained the local government financially that Mayor Willie Brown made a public plea to us to stop.

To anybody that says the system can't be shut down or stopped, all I have to say is, you weren't there. It would be far easier to do than you realize. All it takes is for people to stop talking, stop being afraid, and stop saying that it can't work, and go out and fucking do it. If enough people did that, you would see change in this country happen very quickly.
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nessa Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #148
264. Sure if enough people did it, problem is there are not enough people...
who feel oppressed or believe the system needs to be shut down. Most people are pretty heavily invested in the system as it is.

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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #264
275. Do you think that those who started in the 60's had enough people
No, when they first started, it was a small, dedicated, and grossly outnumbered group of hard-core, dedicated folks. You just personified the problem right there. Everybody keeps WAITING.

"Oh, we don't have enough people. Oh, this is too aggressive. Oh, I have a hair appointment. Oh, I can't get arrested because one day I want to work for so and so..."

Yeah, there it is. Well, I go whether or not I'm alone or with one million others. I do it because it's the right thing to do. I'm not waiting. I choose not to wait because I know that if there's ever going to really be a revolution it's going to take people to stand up regardless, whehter or not they have enough people or not.

Not having enough people is a problem. However, waiting until we have enough to act is a sure fire way to never have enough. You lead by example.
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nessa Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #148
265. Is straining the local government financially really a good goal?...
That seems to be the goal of the republicans, by cutting the tax revenue.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #265
276. Yeah, I think it's a great idea
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." -V
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canoeist52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #73
110. And I thank you for your service. Good job, Downtown Hound!
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #110
174. And I thank you.
:hi:
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #174
263. Cheers...
The marches from point a to point b are so uselessly easily ignored that it's impossible to take them seriously... now I have to figure out how to tell those from what you and yours are up to...

Carry on!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
170. I interviewed the Skinner on video protesting the IRAQ war in Washington Dc
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deaniac21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #170
226. He doesn't seem to mind the wars anymore. I don't get it.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Have fun n/t
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #52
86. I will. Resistance IS fun. Try it sometime and see for yourself.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #86
240. Dud is too busy posting snark on message boards.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
147. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?...nt
Sid
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. Yep, agreed. Again I am done with going on this
Won't happen (well it will but it won't be covered). So wvery one has to be documented.

As to local actions seat inns don't result in arrest no more.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. Seat inns?
:shrug:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #35
244. Just want to point out that we certainly have no visible liberal leaders calling us out -- !!!
Democratic Party sure hasn't called us out to rally for MEDICARE FOR ALL --

or for SOCIAL SECURITY and MEDICARE -- !!

It's the silence of the party which is really the response we have to pay attention to --

The RW has made sure that we don't have liberal leadership rising --

They understand the power of leaders --



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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Shut the system down, eh? Do you have any idea who will
be running things when you succeed with that? I do. Whoever has the most guns. No, shutting down "the system" is like "sticking it to The Man."

If you want to actually do something, go convince people to vote for the right people. That will bring change. But, you have to actually do it. You actually have to go talk to people and convince them.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Shutting down Wall Street will not bring anarchy
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:21 PM by Downtown Hound
However, not doing so will. When global warming truly comes, you will know what anarchy really is.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Oh, dear. How was it that you were going to shut down
Wall Street again? Now, I've seen the NYPD shut down Wall Street once. They had barricades, too. Perhaps you could borrow theirs.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #56
75. A human barricade will work just fine
I've done it before. We shut down the financial district of SF the weekend the Iraq War broke out. It's quite easy to do. All you need is to get enough people to stop talking and start doing.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #75
80. Last I heard, the financial district of San Francisco is still
operating, so you did not actually shut it down, it seems. You may have temporarily blocked traffic on a street for a short time. Then, you went somewhere else and things resumed their normal state. So, I'd say that you shut down nothing. If I am incorrect, please explain how you shut something down.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #80
96. There was a period of several days where we did shut it down
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:39 PM by Downtown Hound
Unfortunately we all went to jail, and everybody else who was wondering when we were going to take it to the streets and saying that shutting down the system was impossible were too busy staying home and not doing shit to stop the illegal slaughter of countless human beings.

So I did my part, where were you? Why didn't you come and help us? If we had had more numbers, we could have shut it down a lot longer. As it was, there were only several thousand of us. And if you could only have seen the havoc we created. If we had had more people, we could have done a lot more.

So how about you join next time?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #96
102. I live in Minnesota.
I used to live in California, but I've moved. We have stuff here to do, too. Have a great day.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #102
114. You have a great day too.
I seem to recall a few years back there was a massive protest in St. Paul against the RNC. A large section of it even tried to even shut it down. Were you among them, or were you just trying to get the "right people" elected? Well congratulations. We got the "right" people elected, and yet the wars go on, the Patriot Act goes on, and corporate criminals go unpunished.

At this point, I'll take the protester's way over your way. Sorry.
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CleanGreenFuture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #114
143. Good on you. While some sit around a computer nannying and chastising those
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:15 PM by CleanGreenFuture
who get things done, you actually go out and take action when elections prove meaningless.

I admire you for taking it to the streets. Others who criticize American citizens for recognizing that more than just voting needs to be done -- not so much.

Keep on pwning their asses. And let me know if I can help for, though I'm in a faraway land, I'll be there if you need me.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #143
173. Thanks. I may need an escape route someday. LOL.
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CleanGreenFuture Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #173
177. My door is open to you my friend.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #114
215. +1. The centrists counseled patience and look what it got us.
I'm sorry, Mario Savio and Fred Hampton are much more inspirational to me than...uh, Harry Reid.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #96
210. So, no business was being done in the buildings that line the
street? I doubt that very much. You may have disrupted street traffic, but I doubt you actually affected financial operations much.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #210
223. It wasn't really our intention of shutting those businesses down
But since you asked, a number of them did close for a short while. If that were our ultimate intention, we would have blockaded the entrances. Our goal was to mount an active challenge to the state by taking over the streets. The cops pushed us back on the sidewalk and the rest of it was a running melee with us trying to get back on and them trying to kettle us in.

You know what's funny? I imagine very similar conversations going on like this after the police sicked dogs on civil rights protesters and sprayed them with water cannons in the 60's. The police dominated those demonstrations too. And yet, the marchers ultimately won. Kind of anyway.

You don't need to win every battle to win the war Mineral Man. You just need to survive and fight keep fighting again another day.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #45
62. Huh? n/t
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #62
83. You heard me. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #83
99. I was hoping for some...
coherence.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #99
128. Look above. n/t
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #128
131. I did...
that's why I said, "huh?".
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:05 PM
Original message
If you have an actual question of me that you would like coherence on, how about you just come out
and ask it instead of beating around the bush?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
142. I have asked you multiple times...
nevermind.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #142
154. Well, ask me again because apparently I'm just not smart enough
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:26 PM by Downtown Hound
to figure it out. What are you asking? Why is that such a hard question to answer?

And you're sitting there implying that I'm being evasive? LOL.

Hello? What is your question? Do I need to ask you again?

What is your question?
What is your question?
What is your question?
What is your question?

You having trouble reading that? Here let me put it in big, bold letters:

WHAT IS YOUR QUESTION?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #154
236. Goodluck trying to get anything out of that one.
Most people gave up on that impossible task long ago.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #45
245. See you understand Global Warming ... !!
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 01:45 AM by defendandprotect
Elites seem to be in a frenzy now --

think they understand it's proceeding much faster than anyone ever

predicted --


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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. By the way, who are the right people to vote for?
Obama is a corporate puppet too. He let BP piss all over the Gulf and its victims. He's let nuclear power off the hook. He's renewed the Patriot Act every time its come up. He continues our wars of aggression. He's still not as bad as most Republicans. Clinton was a corporate puppet also. Face it, there is no right person to vote for, not without dramatic changes in our system. And those change won't come about unless we force them too.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. You're not reading me clearly.
Truly you are not.

I've seen nobody in numbers sufficient to force anyone to do anything so far. However, I do know who has those numbers, and they're not on our side at all.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #61
77. I've seen half a million people at once protest the Iraq War
If just 10% of those broke off and blockaded Wall Street, well that's 50,00 people. Kind of hard to jail 50,000 people at once, wouldn't you say?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #77
221. But, they did not do that.
I have seen over a million people cheer a black man being sworn in as President of The United States. I just wish Dr. King could have been on the stage with him.

Sheer numbers of people are not the answer. Huge numbers of people show up for all sorts of things without making any change in society at all.
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Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #221
225. "Sheer numbers of people are not the answer"
My point exactly. Those sheer numbers have to actually do something OTHER than wave signs and peacefully march and sing from point A to point B. 500,000 people cheering Barack Obama at inauguration doesn't mean anything if Obama isn't going to really deliver on his promise of change. Neither does 500,000 people protesting peacefully at a permitted event.

500,00 people blockading Wall Street and proclaiming that they aren't going to move until corporate crooks are prosecuted? Well now, that would actually be something worth doing.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #225
248. Agree --
One of the things I never understood was the later marches on Washington --

they were immense and moved like a silk scarf --

but we always did it when there was no one in Washington!

It's the spontaneous stuff that works --

Like the first anti-war demonstration in my town -- one night I was driving thru

town and just before dusk, here was a young woman -- all alone -- with just one

cardboard sign she was hold -- NO WAR!

After that, everyone was downtown every night -- and went on and on --

We had no doubt given the numbers that we could stop Bush -- we didn't! --



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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #77
247. They're stonewalling -- you notice the huge demonstrations against wars did nothing to stop them--!!
World is against these wars --

80% of Americans want an end to the wars --

and still Obama feels sufficiently safe and "franchised"/? to keep them going!!


We need a campaign, actually, to demonize politicians who take corporate money --

at this moment, according to Al Gore in Rolling Stone, they're setting Congress'

schedule according to the need to attend their fund raisers every day!!

Trust you read his article -- what he describes is fascism having taken over the

country without actually using the word --

and our Goebbels' style corporate press -- !!

Gore made clear that Congress is under the control of oil and coal industry --

Points again to Global Warming --

As long as we have these wars going they have a screen to manuever behind -- hiding

what they are doing -- grabbing/stealing all they can!

Their wealth is our enemy -- illegitimate power which gives them power over us!



:hi:
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
74. Much like Berlin in the late 80's
Much like Berlin in the late 80's :shrug:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #74
249. We have to figure out where our Berlin Wall is ... !!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #29
66. That won't happen while there's still hope the system is self-correcting. After SS/Medicare are cut
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:48 PM by leveymg
and the reality that a "recovery" has largely been an illusion fully sinks in. Emotion and reality have to coincide before people are sufficiently motivated to take drastic measures.

The emotional environment -- hopelessness, despair, anger -- have to combine with certain objective conditions -- homelessness, joblessness, and deep losses across many sectors of the economy. Systemic collapse or irreparable failure, not just sectoral weakness are prerequisites. Ted Robert Gurr, most famously, observed that frustration and aggression are interlinked, and most often revolutions occur after efforts at reform have failed and some improvement in conditions was realized. That is the "J-Curve" theory of revolutionary potential. Both sets of factors -- emotional and economic -- have to combine and be set off by some catalyzing event before there is sufficient potential for a political rebellion.

Also, as Skocpol and Goldstone point out, revolution doesn't just happen, it's a process that requires objective preconditions. Chalmers Johnson posited that revolution occurs only when several major subsystems of society have reached a point of "disequilibrium." The product of an actual revolution doesn't organize itself, as the Tillys observe, there has to be some sort of alternative structure created by the opposition that is capable of assuming power - that precondition is called "dual sovereignty." We're still a long way from that.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #66
79. Well add Nash to that list
in his studies of the American Revolution he points out that yes, it took a generation at least to get "ready" for it.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #79
90. Revolution is a process that requires work, they don't just happen. What do you recommend by Nash?
Also, I amended and added to my comments above.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #90
103. Here is the tittle
The Unknown American Revolution

http://www.amazon.com/American-Revolution-Democracy-Str...

Any of the incidents detailed in the book would have led to a fizzle All of them together, radicalized the population across the colonies.

All was needed... was a match. We are in the same kind of a process... very early stages of it,
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #103
120. You know, the Social Revolution theorists don't count the American Rev as a true Social Rev
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:01 PM by leveymg
A split within and among elites, and a political separation accompanied by a war, but not a true reordering of society in any fundamental fashion.

The Great Social Revolutions list generally includes the British Glorious Revolution of Civil War of 1688, the French (1789), Russian (1917) and Chinese (1949) revolutions and dozens of smaller national liberation struggles that followed.

I don't see any persuasive evidence that we're headed for anything so drastic as a Social Revolution, Class War, or even a shooting war among polarized elites. The American Empire, however, is ripe for collapse like the French in 1940, the British in 1946, and the Soviet Union in 1991. Imperial collapse has a different mindset and dynamic.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #120
129. There is a split
regardless it is a good example, like the rest, of how long it takes to radicalize a population.

No revolution comes athena like from Zeus's head. This is a common mistake. I mean people were surprised by Egypt, which may still have it's thunder stolen... but it took thirty or so years for the conditions to be just right.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #129
134. Egypt started as mass democracy movement but appears to have ended as just another regime change
It may actually take the additional step, but that will likely require a mass insurrection and some organized group to take charge of the rebellion.

I think the concern is well-founded that the Muslim Brotherhood may be the force that emerges to lead the opposition, and that is viewed as potentially very problematic, particularly by the Saudis and the Israelis.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #134
139. Yeah that is always a down side
what happened the morning after.

But the point I made is that this did not come athena like from Zeus's head. There is this fantasy, supported by our media, that revolutions just happen. They don't... for the record the Brotherhood is not the same brotherhood that killed Sadat... so my hope is that it's mostly noise from them. (And that they truly concern themselves with improving conditions and don't look for the outside boogey man for excuses)

I think we are into the process of radicalization here. It will take a while... in fact, I don't expect to see it.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #139
146. Mexico certainly has higher revolutionary potential, as Gurr might put it.
A real social revolution in the South might have some sort of contagient effect. Demonstration that change is possible is very powerful.

You live in Mexico, don't you? Tell us what you think about that.

Also, what's different about today's Egyptian Brotherhood from 15-20 years ago?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #146
151. Mexico has a great safety valve
called the US... The Turner Theory works here.

And I lived in Mexico, which has transformed itself into a middle class society, with middle class values. In fact, the next wave of immigrants might not be field hands, but nurses.

And yes Mexico could go, except that it has the US as a safety valve and... an internal war on drugs that has taken all kinds of thunder from the revolution types. Kid of it takes it off when there are people beheaded every so often.

As to the Brotherhood... people like Ben Ladin's deputy were expelled and the young in the organization are not as radical as their elders. In fact, they are more into social services than shariah law. The latter would be nice, but they made their peace with being a secular state (as secular as they get in the Arab World)
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #151
163. There's has been net emigration back to Mexico in the last 2 yrs, at least among
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 04:42 PM by leveymg
the undocumented in recent studies I've seen. Started in early 2008 as the housing construction bubble burst.

I wouldn't count on the border getting any less militarized or the legal immigration system being liberalized, any time soon.

Drug money and wars have definitely diverted the attention of the young away from their elder's role model and goals of a Fidel/Che model of revolution in Mexico, but that could change almost overnight by legalization in the US, I believe (the foreign counter-insurgency impact of the War on Drugs may be a major reason we see so little progress toward legalization here). The Bolivarian revolution seems to have taken root practically everywhere that the drug lords don't control the population through terror.

I agree that the Sunni Fundamentalists may have shot their wads, and that Jihad has lost appeal, except in areas such as Pakistan and Afghanistan where we create new cadres by excessive use of force. Iraq will be a very interesting test to see just how strong the desire for revenge actually is, and whether Iran will manage to exploit the Shi'ia revival.

Israel seems to be headed deeper into its own crisis of de-democratization and toward some sort of horrendous, bloody ethnic cleansing and unraveling of the pretense of a functional democracy. The Saudi Royals have bought domestic peace, but whether that lasts or someone finally manages to pluck The Prize is mostly a question of who and when in my estimation.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #163
167. Yes, yes it has, but also realize Mexico has a history
of a very recent FAILED revolution... see Chiapas...

as to the rest I expect the ME to implode, and not in a nice way. Hell, I expect, not popular, for Israel to disappear
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #167
172. The stolen election four years ago virtually sealed the fate of a violent outcome
in Mexico. That was most surely an int'l operation, and a very, very unwise policy choice by the U.S.

The ME is a ticking nuclear bomb that various parties are trying desperately to bounce, hit with hammers, and otherwise hack into to find and activate the detonation code.

Mass insanity. Chaos. Revolution is too organized to describe the political outcomes. The result may be more like "Children of Men" than anything else I can think of.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #172
176. Having been in Mexico recently there is no talk
of revolution. People are damn tired of the violence. And yes, Chiapas failed. If it had not, then there would be more talk of it.

As to the ME I don't see a happy outcome... at all.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #176
251. Right but they are marching out of the country ... taking immense risks to get here ...
eventually something has to happen -- doesn't it?

Obviously their leaders are picked to keep America's BS Drug War going!!

To keep Mexico investing in America rather than in jobs for their own people!!

To keep the world safe for American employers who make huge profits hiring illegals!!


The people who know about non-violence and how to run revolutions are those among us

who have been most oppressed -- and we need to use their intelligence -- get their help!


Women have been running the longest ever non-violent revolution --

African Americans delivered themselves from slavery and Segregation, Inc. --

and still the attempts to oppress them go on -- and they continue to rise!

Gays and lesbians -- who continue to fight their campaign to free themselves --

to gain true equality for their numbers --

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #167
252. Interesting ....
May be one of the reasons the Drug War and its violence was pushed even

harder there?

Seems also that not only are the trade agreements creating unemployment and

poverty here -- they are destroying their family farms --- Thom Hartmann was

talking about this last week or so.

Same kind of damage that was done to our family farms here decades ago -


Re ME -- this is the center of the question -- OIL ... fossil fuels and the fight

by elites to continue control over them -- huge money involved -- a billion a day

in profits? All of the ME and OPEC/Royals involved --

MIC uses 8u0% of our oil -- which makes BP part of the national security state!

But behind it -- Global Warming -- the huge secret they are trying to keep -- !!


Not that the public shouldn't have recognized what was going on simply based on

corporate pollution - !! But oil industry spent tens of billions of dollars over

50 years to hide the truth of this from American public --

to keep us and Congress from NATIONALIZING OIL INDUSTRY AND OTHER NATURAL RESOURCES.


And, afaic see, US is Israel and has been since Nixon armed rightwing Israels and

gained Israel as our foothold in ME -- !!


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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #66
250. We need to be reading more of FDR who knew how to demonize the banksters ...
the Fat Cats -- and we need leadership --

right now we should be looking at changing the party leadership in 2012 --

and targeting as many rw'ers as we can -- !!

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #29
243. Unless you control police departments and MIC .... I don't think so -- !!
PLUS, imo, that's what the T-party is intended to do -- create a more aggressive

and maybe even violent political arena --

Rightwing can only rise on political violence -- that's the lesson of history!!



We need to organize and demonstrate in different ways than before --

unite in actions -- from "lights out" to taking our cars off the road for

15 minutes at a time at a given signal --

Wearing buttons -- MEDICARE FOR ALL -- STOP THE WARS --

Handing out info to friends and townspeople ---

"The play within the play" -- Shakespeare --


Strikes are OK as long as they are unexpected and call-out's coming at any time on

a signal --

Strikes in not using buses and public transportation -- strikes using public transportation

and leaving cars at home -- all kinds of things --

lots of creative people around who would have many ideas!

It's beginning to happen -- I got a political e-mail from someone in town today I only know

proffessionally and it's circulating everywhere -- dump the entire Congress and it's all BS!!

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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. It is not what you have done. It is what you are doing.
I take to the streets every time there is an election. The result is Al Franken and Betty McCollum, along with some very progressive state legislators.

I take to the streets of my precinct and district and help people understand who is their friend and who their enemy.

Again, I ask you: When will YOU take to the streets?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
26. +10
Lots of people think "Let's you and him fight" is a really good idea.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. Now what?
I just got back from the streets.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. Too many questions. You just have to
TAKE TO THE STREETS! Never mind about the details. MAN THE BARRICADES!

Allons enfants de la Patrie!!11! That sort of thing is what I think we're discussing here.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE! STICK IT TO THE MAN!

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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. We don't do that here.
It's too hot.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
38. That, and the Tour de France is on TV
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
25. I do believe the correct answer to that is...
When they take the Internets away from us.

Props to HowardX for that one...
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. The internets were essential
In Wisconsin and Tahrir square, just saying.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. True...
But there weren't very many DUers in WI or Tahrir Square.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. But we could give direct support
Ryan's Pizza comes to mind, and follow my sig.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
59. And they passed that bill anyway, right?
But Ryan's Pizza made out good.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #59
65. Be a cynic, but this is not a race, rather a marathon
this is the beginning of a new worker's right movement. Tell me, how long did it take unions to become legal?

The real push started in the 1880s.

How long did it take for women to gain the vote? Started in the 1870s.

How long did it take for slavery to come to an end? The earliest resistance started way back in the 1710s with the Quaker communities.

See a pattern here?

I could use Foreign history examples as well, but why bother?
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #65
98. Oh, I see a pattern alrighty!
And I've been to many a march and protest and silent vigil... what I don't get is... why are you advocating taking to the street at this particular point in time?

Yes, I am cynical. It's a gift. It keeps me from sliding down the slippery slope into the vast OMG protests over nothing.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #98
108. Because this is as good a moment as any
the population is getting radicalized. IT is a process... but right now, people need to protest the deal making in DC, PERIOD. No, it will not succeed... so? Keep at it. The people at Haymarket died...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #108
111. So...
what's stopping you?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #37
222. That was Ian's Pizza, not Ryan's Pizza.
There is no Ryan's Pizza in Madison. Lots of us bought pizza for the protesters. I remember the name well. They got some of my money and fed some protesters. I could never forget their name. Truly.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #37
267. Ian's Pizza, Jesus Christ.
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canoeist52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #33
70. Got a link to that for proof there were few DU'ers in Wisc?
Do they wear tags? I seem to remember some great coverage here with videos and photos.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #70
87. Yeah, that's a brilliant ploy...
Asking someone to prove a negative... just brilliant.

You got proof any of that great coverage came from DUers?
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canoeist52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #87
106. Here

"This is how my mom wanted to spend her birthday (she's also a DUer). :)"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #106
152. Well, there's one!
I said there were 'few' as in not a whole lot.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. When I get my bicycle back from the shop, I will be taking to the streets again

I'm stuck using the sidewalk for a few days.

Is this about the Netflix price increase?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. Bad news...
TPTB stole your bike.
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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
140. Damn, and I just bought new pedal straps

This will not stand.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #140
149. Why don't you...
take to the streets?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
47. As soon as American Idol wraps up its last season...
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
49. What, you expect us to have streets?
Oh, you mean the private boulevards owned by the rich.

;-)
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
53. It's not going to happen. Of course if the media doesn't cover it,
then it never happened, right?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
63. They never have covered it, well mostly never
that has not changed. But in the past people STILL TOOK to the streets. The Labor movement, for example did not achieve it's gains by sitting at home. The same goes for the Suffragist. People need to LEARN that history. And to expect the papers of record to cover this is just delusional.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #63
81. I'm guessing the Freedom Marches took a lot...
I'm guessing the Freedom Marches took a lot of static, stolid middle-class people who had a bad habit of saying, "take what system down? why?" by complete surprise.

That being said however, I think the majority of the American populace is somewhat sated and satisfied with the status-quo in the here and now... though circumstances could change overnight given the right catalyst, effective leadership and a unified agenda (Egypt jumps to mind)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #81
115. Serious mistake, Egypt, like any other revolution
did not happen overnight. That one took about 30 years. The American REvolution took about a generation... I could go on.
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SlimJimmy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #115
165. Please, don't. (nt)
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #63
119. I think it's delusional to believe the people are going to take to the streets.
Of course this is the DU alternate universe where the reality of the regular universe does not count.

Take to the streets and do what exactly? Demonstrate? Sit-in? Civil disobedience? Riot?

How many people might you expect to do this because as bad as things might seem here it is much better than the rest of the world. Basically people are too comfortable, too satisfied with the status quo. If 40% of the electorate don't even bother to vote in a presidential election, how many would ever take to the streets.

I live in Wisconsin. I suppose I took to the streets last winter in Madison, one of the tens of thousands there, but really precious few have taken to the streets here in any number since. We will do well if we can keep people inspired enough to vote in the recall elections must less continually take to the streets.

This is not Tunisia or Egypt. Sure, people took to the streets in the history of this nation for labor rights, civil rights, or in the anti-war movement, but that was then and this is now. At this time, in a very divided nation, what is the one cohesive thing that would bring people together enough to inspire them to take to the streets? There could be a lot of things and many of them might be people taking to the streets for things we would not agree with here.

I'm not saying taking to the streets might not be a good thing, but I don't see it happening in any meaningful way that you might envision.





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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #119
133. Becaues OUR HISTORY includes taking to the streets
see Labor Rights.. see Civil Rights

See Suffragist movement.

Or have we all forgotten our history?

Yes we have had riots too, for the record.

Part of the problem is precisely that, people are CONVINCED it does not work... well it does... but it is a slow slug, not a sprint.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #133
158. History is history. That was then, this is now.
It's a different world now. It is not Labor rights, civil rights, or the suffragist movement. Those were all single and focused, cohesive movement.

Sorry, I'm convinced it will not happen to any meaningful degree.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #158
164. Well then, sit at home
and don't bother participating, Perfect example of what happens when people give up.

:hi:

and good bye.

(For the record yes it is a different world, so what?)

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #63
253. Not after VN -- and their loss -- and not after Youth Revolution ... !!!
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Urban Prairie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
67. Depends on how many are affected, how much income is involved, what benefits would be reduced
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:35 PM by Urban Prairie
and especially how soon they will be hit by cuts and changes. If the Rethugs were more patient, their desire to implement "cuts, caps, and balances" would be spread out over a period of a decade or so, but their insatiable greed, blatantly contemptuous disdain for the dependent poor, disabled, infirm, unemployed, and the elderly, and their sociopathic behavior is so deeply ingrained now, that they no longer have the ability to wait it out over that long of a period. Their absolutely wettest dream of all, is to pass legislation meant to eliminate every single government program and service, and ultimately privatize everything with the exception of the three branches of local, state, and federal government and the military, and do it ASAP.

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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #67
254. They've already been hit by cuts -- COLA's stopped for two years now ....
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 02:21 AM by defendandprotect
Why wait until Social Security and Medicare are disappeared?

And many are disabled -- !!

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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
68. When the heat wave ends. Perhaps its time for millions to head to DC...
its time the "shame" train leave the station.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:34 PM
Original message
When, not sure, but I see people here are worried about your statement
gee... I wonder why that is.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
85. Worried?
Chuckling is more like it.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
95. I think there is radicalization already under way
I also realize, what you do as well, that this is a marathon not a sprint.

As to the radicalization, some folks are worried that when it comes, they will be caught in the wrong side of the fence. Them demanding my credentials and what i have done is also a CLASSIC discrediting technique. Suffice it to say, I have said in the past what I have done, no need to speak of it again. Suffice it to say I have worked both inside and outside this as it were.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #95
113. Well, I have read many of your posts, and I trust you...
it will happen, I know this... and I'm not excited about it.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #113
121. Alas I know it is coming
perhaps will take ten years, But I am not excited. If this comes peacefully, like a few revolutions in our past, sure have at it. But if it comes with violence, especially a civil war, I am not. That I am not looking forwards to.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #121
127. I'm in Agreement with you...
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #95
255. What are your thoughts on where we are with leadership .... ???
Which has been largely disappeared by rw violence --
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
69. So there is a march on Washington planned for the next 2 weeks?
I haven't heard about it.

You'd think that such an event would be announced here on DU.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #69
82. You know we need more like wild cat strikes
all across the nation... than just another march.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #82
183. Ok, when do they start?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #183
198. Talk, for the first time, of strikes, was floated during WI
so they will be coming. When they do you will hear of them in your local area. That is the way it is.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #82
256. We need to decide that we are ALL labor and unite with unemployed -- !!
Someone is organizing the unemployed, I think?

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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
71. As long as the latest console game can be bought
As long as the latest console game can be bought, and season three of whatever is on, and that joint we've been saving is still where we left it, I just don't see it happening. :shrug:
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
89. I'm ready.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #89
97. OK. Are you waiting for something, then?
Did you want someone to tell you what to do?
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #97
100. I think that's how we got in this mess in the first place. If you want to counter march have at it.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #100
116. Wouldn't there actually have to BE a march...
in order to have a counter march?
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. If he cuts social programs there will be a march.
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 03:58 PM by Fearless
Edit: spelling.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #118
257. ... and it will be too late - !!
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #97
124. why are you giving people shit here?
what's your point?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #124
161. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #124
166. There's a status quo to protect.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #124
209. I'm not giving people anything. I'm asking them questions.
As for my point, I'll leave it to you to read my posts and discover my point.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #209
216. now you are being dishonest
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #216
217. No. I am not.
You're free to think that, but you're incorrect. You are not in a position to know what I think. I do not know you at all, and you do not know me.

When I ask questions, I hope for answers. When they are not forthcoming, I have to figure things out for myself.

Your statement is incorrect and presumptuous. Please do not presume to know my thoughts or motivations. Thanks a lot.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #217
242. an un-honest question gets no answer
but you already know that from experience.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
91. K&R
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
92. What's stopping you?...nt
Sid
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southernyankeebelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
93. After the debt ceiling debate is over. The Shock and Awe will begin. The
government I am sure already has the military and police ready for the fight to come. I'm to old to get out there and fight for all of our rights. But I want to know where in the hell is the young generation. These problems are going to effect all of us.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #93
101. +1
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #93
258. Youth have been being told for 30 years by Wall St. Journal they're being scammed by Social Security
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 02:34 AM by defendandprotect
WSJ has been telling them it's a "Ponzi Scheme" -- then they ahd to try to

deny and hide all of that --

But very little opposition came from the Dem Party to correct any of this!!

Yeah -- the occasional Rep. would speak up -- but that's it!

Responding has almost become anti-Democratic Party policy -- across the entire scene!!


Also, keep in mind besides the heavy propaganda aimed at them -- they've been pushed and

pulled by long waits to get jobs after graduation -- and lay offs -- and now long periods

of unemployment -- and no health care!!


Wall St. scams to steal their IRA funds -- Wall St. crashes that took their investments!



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Lucian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
104. I'm ready.
It sucks some here won't follow you. Or me.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #104
109. And waiting.
Isn't that the rest of that expression?

Where would you like us to follow you? Where will you begin this action? I asked Nadin when she was going to get started, too, but she didn't answer. We can't follow someone who's not leading us anywhere, you know. What's your plan?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #109
132. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
112. When you do take to the streets. be sure you don't gang up on a
bridge...the damned rusty thing is likely to give way and kill everyone who's big enough to die. I hear they have some fine bridges now in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #112
136. Don't forget Alaska.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #136
159. We never got those bridges, Fearless.
It made a good sound bite, though.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #159
171. The House of Representatives seems to say otherwise...
In HR662 there is continued funding for the above project. Rep. Polis-(D) of CO, spoke in support of a motion to recommit the bill, with a very specific amendment, explained in his words, "This motion rescinds all remaining funds, about $183 million, provided for the planning, design, and construction of the two bridges under SAFETEA-LU" and that "According to the CBO this motion will reduce the deficit by $160 million by eliminating funding for these two bridges, nothing else."<56>

3/2/2011 4:10pm: Floor summary: DEBATE - The House proceeded with ten minutes of debate on the
Polis (CO) motion to recommit with instructions. The instructions contained in the motion seek
to require the Committee on Transportation to report the bill back to the House forthwith with
an amendment which inserts a section rescinding all unobligated balances of contract authority
provided or reserved for planning, design, or construction of the Gravina Island bridge,
Alaska, or the Knik Arm bridge, Alaska.<57>

In response Rep. Mica-(R) of FL, spoke in opposition responding "Well congratulations my colleagues welcome to the era of smoke and mirrors and that's exactly what this motion to recommit is and I urge its defeat. And you heard the gentleman describing bridges and he again is trying to mislead the entire house on this particular motion to recommit. It is smoke and mirrors, and I urge the defeat of the motion to recommit." which was the complete argument and explanation he gave, even though he was allotted a full 5 minutes to respond.<56>

"On motion to recommit with instructions Failed by recorded vote: 181 - 246, 2 Present"<58>


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravina_Island_Bridge#cite...
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #171
191. I said we didn't get the BRIDGES,
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 05:20 PM by Blue_In_AK
not that we didn't get the money. Neither of these bridges has been built, and the fate of the one connecting Anchorage to the Mat-Su Valley is seriously in doubt. Lots of money spent on studies, but I'll be really surprised if I see it in my lifetime. It's simply going to be too expensive to build.

I don't believe the one to Gravina Island has been constructed yet either. They built a road, but there's been no construction on a bridge.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #191
192. The money has been set aside to build it. That's what the quotation I gave said.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #192
195. I'm just reporting what I see up here.
Our mayor actually sued to stop the bridge just last week. http://www.adn.com/2011/07/07/1956920/city-wants-ok-for...



The Municipality of Anchorage has filed a lawsuit to force the federal government to drop its green light for the controversial Knik Arm bridge project.

The Sullivan administration lawsuit says the road connection to the Anchorage side of the bridge would be a big problem for the expanding port.

"Adverse impacts on the Port of Anchorage can indirectly impact all Alaskans who rely on that Port for the transshipment of goods. Connector road construction under the Selected Alternative will irreparably injure the Port's vital role in the regional economy," said the city's lawsuit.

The lawsuit was filed this week in U.S. District Court. It says the court should require the Federal Highway Administration to set aside the Record of Decision it issued last December giving the Knik Arm Bridge project an OK to go ahead.

<snip>




KABATA may be "moving forward," but there are no guarantees.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #195
196. Let's hope.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #196
206. Yeah, I don't know much about Ketchikan
since it's almost 800 air miles from here and you can't drive there from here anyway, but the Knik Arm Bridge would spoil the view here in Anchorage. The bridge would go basically right across in front of where the snow-covered mountains are.

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Rebubula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
122. When....
...there are more jobless than jobbed
...there are people 'disappearing' in the night
...police round up and beat protesters to death
...we have no vote
...I can no longer afford food


...things get 1/5th as bad as they are in Egypt, Libya, Syria, North Korea etc.


Some bad news about the debt limit, phone hacking, lost jobs does not give rise to the death and destruction open revolution bring.


Sorry...I got no time to 'take to the streets' - I have a full time job, a kid and ill parents. You do what you can - I will do what I have to.
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
125. Love These Threads
Not for the reason the OP suggested but they're fun regardless.

You get the aggitator types. Usually the ones leading the charge from the rear or the ones suggesting that we must all rise up and damn having an actual plan. As long as we're doing something and taking actions things are going to change. Now, I don't want to sound like protest doesn't work. Sometimes it does. But it needs to have an end game. So the call to arms (as it were) of "Take To The Streets" doesn't really mean anything, but it's good for getting a bunch of recs on DU.

Next you get the holier than thou types. The ones who chastise other people for doing things they find distasteful, like watching American Idol or eating a jelly donut instead of takin' to the streets! It's always a fun collection of folks willing to bash what other people are doing instead of Takin' to the f'ing streets! Pro-Tip: If you're posting on DU, even to dump on people who are not TAKIN' IT TO THE STREETS! sufficiently for you, you're also probably not in the steeets. So if you're sitting at home or at the office dogging out people for watching reruns of The Simpsons and not TAKIN' IT TO THE FUCKING STREETS! then you're probably a jackass.

Lastly, I'll usually get so see some of my favorite DU'ers poking fun at the rabble rousers yelling about TAKIN' IT TO THE MOTHER FUCKING SKREETS! and next thing you know, it's 5:00 PM EST and time for me to pack up and go home.

So here's to you random "Takin' it to the streets" thread. You never fail to satisfy.

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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #125
135. And then you get the people who think they're cute
and clearly know everything about everyone on DU because they're above the plebes?
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NeedleCast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #135
273. Not At All, Just A Matter of Being On DU For More Than 15 Minutes
I've seen dozens of "taking it to the streets" threads and they are absurdly predictable. The combination of preaching to the chior and the total lack of an actual message is pretty much inevitable in any of these threads. I mean, if I were going to suggest that someone take it to the streets, as it were, I'd at least supply the time *I* would be in the streets and what the purpose of the rally was.

I'd love to see this actually happen at some point. Like, just get a bunch of the Taking It To The Steets(TM) people together in one place and have someone yell "GO!" and watch them all run aimlessly around doing laws knows what while simultaniously accomplishing nothing.

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dissidentboomer Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #125
137. It's coming but not over a single issue
or DC staged drama. When it comes, it will be because of very wide spread unemployment, sky rocketing energy and other costs, wages that might be 1 to 5 percent better than you see now for all of those FANTASTIC "service industry jobs", and a congress and president (much like the ones we now have) who reply with policies to scarf up more bucks and lower the price of a big mac. Yea Team!

Don't worry, it's coming. However, you can rest easy, for now.
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #125
178. Good post
:thumbsup:

DU sure can be entertaining. :-)
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #125
194. I always get a Doobie Bros. earworm. n/t
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
138. We need some new Hoovervilles only call them Obamavilles.
When Nixon was President the anti war folks stayed in Washington and it drove Nixon batty. One night he actually went to talk to them.

We need an in-your-face presence in Washington. Tent cities with large signs saying "Where are the jobs"

We could put up bill boards saying "Where are the jobs" and other things. We don't need the media, driving past them on a daily basis would get the message across.

AARP has an add against cutting Social Security and Medicare.

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hifiguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #138
144. AARP might be able to get away with it
anyone else would be promptly disappeared to Gitmo these days.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #138
145. That is part of it
truly. And I think it is coming. THe fact we are having this conversation, in spite of a few, means that we are starting to have the actual discussion. My feeling is the radicalization started in oh about 1996 (with the right) and the left, whatever that is in this country, is now also into that process.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
153. When my PS3 dies and I can't afford another one.
Just kidding, I do participate in marches in my town.
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CaptRandom Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
162. with the current generation of juiced up tazer happy cops? no thanks..
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #162
259. Some folks do figure out that MIC and TORTURE may not be about terrorists but about them!!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
168. How about the Mall in DC?
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
169. Not saying it could never happen, but I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it either.
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dissidentboomer Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #169
175. All populations have their limits. We are not exceptional in any regard.
Unless policies across many issues change in a major way, the current problems will not only persist but get much worse. What is troubling and what many of us here sense is that there is not only a willful blindness to addressing these issues, there are powerful forces in place who are now stronger than the voice of the people, stronger than the national interest, who do not want the issues addressed because NOT addressing them makes them wealthier and more powerful. This situation cannot exist much longer, especially with other pressing global situations at play - peak oil, water shortages, wars, among others - without the pain for the average American reaching an intolerable level. I can't tell you what that level is. I can't express it in statistical or economic terms but I know it is out there in our future and I fear that it is not that far away.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #175
181. +1000 those who ignore history... and all that
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #175
182. That's why I avoided using the absolute "never".
Lots of things coming down the pike at us, and gaining speed. I don't know what the tipping point is, but I suspect it's still a couple decades away, though that's just a guess on my part. I suspect this century is going to be one wild ride for the human race.
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dissidentboomer Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #182
186. A couple of decades is the blink of an eye, kiddo. Just long enough
for most of the happy little campers at this site to meet that soul mate, parent a kid or two, run in place in that meaningful career, and one day turn on the news and exclaim "Oh %&*!.... Honey! Look at this!"
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #186
193. No way, 20 years is epic.
Why I remember when I was 23 as if it were yesterday and....oh shit, you're right. ;)
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Cool Logic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
180. Take to the streets...and do what?
Make your voice heard, or something a bit more dramatic?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #180
184. You could start with number one
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #180
190. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
185. My taking to the streets days are over. I've done plenty of it
Now it's time for a new generation to pick up the gauntlet. I intend to stay in my Vermont bubble.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
187. October 6th, 2011
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/462/358/Americans_Demand...

Americans' Demand for Redress of Grievances or Day of Rage in Washington D.C. on October 6th, 2011

The author of a new book available on Amazon called "Assange and Government in a Wikileaks World", calls for a "Day of Rage" in Washington D.C. on October 6th, 2011, at the Freedom Plaza. In his call for prosection of U.S. officials for war crimes he states: "The crimes against humanity committed by the U.S. government and its proxies, that can only be described as an ongoing global crime spree beginning with the 1953 overthrow of the Iranian government and continuing on with the current wars in the Middle East, which have been aggravated by a hegemonic drive to weave a globalist system controlled by the power elite, has resulted in many reprisals of which one was the terrorist attack on 9/11. The elites crimes have made tens of thousands of Americans victims of reprisal or casualties in war by those seeking defense from invasion and occupation or retribution for the power elites international lawlessness that has been ongoing over the last fifty years."

Americans now have the power of mass communication and hence the means to end these atrocities and cease being made victims as the result of criminal actions by a government being run by a ruling elite that uses a two-tiered justice system that allows the elite to use the state to turn Americans into slaves or corpses without legal redress. We have the power to take back our freedom and hold these criminals responsible with their lives if we will stand as one for the rule of law. We can end this tyranny the way the Egyptians ended the tyranny they suffered. Are the Egyptians greater lovers of liberty? Were they under less of a police state? Did they live under less of a threat of torture and murder? Yet, they stood together to end tyranny while facing greater dangers. Have Americans become cowards? Unfortunately, we have been headed towards a police state with the courts, police and prosecutors all suborning, soliciting, perpetrating and excusing perjury, torture and murder. The FBI has tortured and murdered with impunity. The U.S. government no longer has anything to offer the people after allowing the theft of their wealth by the financial elite, but we the people now have the power to get justice if we will only stand for it.

As the U.S. raped the planet by installing murderous dictators it used to crush any burgeoning drive towards democratic institutions in oil producing countries, its bought and paid for henchmen used billions of dollars in U.S. financial aid to fund what the U.S. knew were illegitimate regimes whose power and authority was based solely on torture and murder. Furthermore, the U.S. government continued to use these regimes to outsource the torture it wanted committed, hiding these crimes that were very often committed against innocents behind bogus claims of national security. Psychopaths who were fully trained and staffed to run these foreign torture chambers, human abominations that make pirates look like choirboys, engaged in acts so reprehensible that the crimes simply cannot go unpunished by a civilized world. Justice demands retribution be meted out lest humanity itself be so ever polluted that mankind will never be able to rise above being made slaves, victims and corpses by the power elite and the ruin they cause that results from their insatiable appetite for wealth and power.

The recent disintegration of U.S. funded dictatorships across the Middle East, which now even threatens the U.S.s Afghan adventure, has forced the U.S. government to double down on the bets it has placed to win hegemonic control of the monetary system, energy resources and finally over humanity itself, but as the U.S. lays its remaining chips on the table to shore up geopolitical losses the elite have leveraged with hundreds of billions of dollars in taxpayer money and unending future commitments in U.S. treasure and blood, it seems there is no money left to even begin trying to win back what has proven to have been squandered on a suckers bet. The web of deceit the U.S. has woven over the past fifty years is rapidly unraveling and now the elite have little concern for how many of the masses die, be it foreigners or American citizens. The elite care about wealth and power, not the nation, laws, justice, or the people

More at the link --
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #187
199. I will have to look for repeats of this
in all cities, if you get my drift.

But we need more than just marches. We show, we go home... easy to ignore.

Thanks.

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #199
205. I thinhk that is planned nadin
They have a website -- I'm sure it's being discussed.
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MrMickeysMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
188. May I suggest a more effective...
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 05:10 PM by MrMickeysMom
... flash mob?

May I suggest doing it in a MALL?

I seem to be seeing these as the official "form" to say something. I saw a picture of a "silent flash mob" for a particular cause....


May as well take it to these "streets" first, since we seem to be prodded to spend money we don't have there.

Just a suggestion...

edit: where to flash!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #188
200. That is one of the many tools
of course.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
189. I plan to walk my dog this evening - does that count? nt
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
197. This Sat., July 23, south Houston - details here
The public is invited to a Rally to Save Medicare & Social Security at 5 p.m. on Saturday, July 23 at Walter Hall Park, 807 Hwy. 3 North in League City.

The featured speakers are General Ricardo Sanchez, Democratic candidate for the U. S. Senate and members of the U. S. Congress Gene Green, Al Green and Sheila Jackson Lee.

John Patrick, Secretary Treasurer of the Texas AFL-CIO, is Master of Ceremonies.

The Rallys resolve is to alert the public to the Republican Partys radical agenda to dissolve Medicare and Social Security, said Lloyd Criss, chairman of the Galveston County Democratic Party. The rally is free. Barbecue will be available for $5.

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/friendswood/news/article...

Y'all like to make fun of Texas, but we're protesting this nonsense of cutting Medicare down here. Hope to hear from those in other states doing the same.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #197
201. Oh trust me, will check my local area
as well.
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #201
202. Cool, good to hear! nt
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #202
203. If and when we do... I will be there with camera too
:-)

I believe in covering what the press will not.
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pintobean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
204. It's too damn hot
The streets are rising up in protest.
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #204
211. They're doing that here, too. Some pretty dramatic road blowouts
on the Interstate here. And, with the state shut down, it's taking time to get them fixed.
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Buns_of_Fire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
207. "Taking to the streets" may be more a symbolic term than anything else, these days...
Edited on Tue Jul-19-11 06:17 PM by Buns_of_Fire
I've been gassed, I've been sprayed, I've been chased. And other then the fact that I'm getting too damn old for that kind of stuff anympre, I think things would be a lot tougher for demonstrators from here on out. The tactics have changed along with the times, usually becoming a bit more brutal as those with something to lose become more paranoid about losing it.

These days, I would see effective techniques more as Monkeywrenching than anything else. Throwing sand in the gears. CNN probably wouldn't bother with reporting 10,000 literally "in the streets" protesting the Kook Brothers purchase of the government, but I think they WOULD report some group like Anonymous sucking every penny out of Kook Industries' bank accounts.

But even if they didn't, would it matter that much? This revolution will NOT be televised.
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drpepper67 Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #207
208. These days writing an angry blog is about all we're able to do...
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #208
220. No, it is not. You have many paths you can pursue.
My suggestion is that you find one of those paths and follow it. As long as it leads in the correct direction, you will arrive at the destination eventually.

Angry blogs have extremely limited usefulness. There are far too many of them to make much of an impact.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
212. What are you planning to take to the streets WITH?
I mean c'mon dude you're one of the gunz are teh eviiiil crowd. What ya got in mind?
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MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #212
219. To be fair, weapons are not required. Sometimes, an unarmed person
can make a very dramatic statement. In Tiananmen Square, for example, the image of the young man standing down a tank is an image that resonated around the world. In Vietnam, the Buddhist monk who immolated himself is an image that captured the frustration of many with the situation there.

In both cases, the bravery of the two individuals was monumental and their acts had impact that went far beyond someone throwing a molotov cocktail or shooting someone.

The unarmed protester who is willing to risk all for the cause is a hero. There have been many examples in history where such an act symbolized the commitment of those who sought changes.

So, I would never ask what weapons a person was bringing to the streets. I would ask whether they were, in fact, actually going to go to the streets. When I do, I rarely get an answer, though.

I was not able to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge with Dr. King. Only a few people were able to do so, so the rest of us crossed later and stood to hear him speak in Montgomery. Dr. King was another of the non-violent heroes of a movement which succeeded, albeit long after he was murdered. No, I would never criticize the non-violent protester. I will, however, openly criticize the non-protester who says, "Let's you and him fight." For that person, I have no respect whatsoever.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #219
224. In both cases, the two individuals are dead NT
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
214. If you're carryin' pictures of Chairman Mao
you aint gonna make w/ anyone any how
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #214
234. Nope, I would be carrying pictures of George Washington
Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson... as well as copies of the Declaration and the US Constitution. Why would I carry pictures of Chairman Mao?

By the way it is high time we go back to real capitalism, and i do not expect you to understand just how REVOLUTIONARY this is.

I suggest you read these two, cover to cover, and try to figure this out

http://www.amazon.com/Wealth-Nations-Bantam-Classics/dp...

http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smMS.html

Trust me, no links to Das Kapital, even if that is the OTHER bookend of what Smith started.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #234
246. If you want money from people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #246
260. You did not expect that response, did ya?
Suffice it to say... there is something coming, and for those of us who understand the mechanics will be less surprising.

But it is coming.

Now again, why would any of us carry pictures of oh Che? I mean he is, or rather was, far less of a peaceful chap. But getting rid of monopolies, is actually VERY CAPITALIST and following the principles laid down in the Wealth of Nations, by one Adam Smith.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #260
266. You say you've got a real solution
Well, you know, we'd all love to see the plan

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #266
271. Get active, jam the works, stop willingly participating
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 11:54 AM by nadinbrzezinski
yes take to the streets, stop being a passive lemming... and yes leaders will emerge, they are already emerging. Or you missed WI? and the Midwest? It is already happening. I am not the one with the plan... my vision is based on that silly thing called US HISTORY. Read it, not elite histories by the way. LEARN, be inspired and don't throw shit like you are going to march carrying the little red book. That is just stupid.
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #271
279. But when you talk about destruction
don't you know that you can count me out
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #279
280. Who is talking of destruction
Why are you engaging in an imagined straw man?
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RSillsbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #280
285. You say you'll change the Constitution
you better free your mind instead
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
218. Maybe not very long at all. n/t
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Dept of Beer Donating Member (957 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
227. What street are you taking to?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
229. We can't. They will kill us. Our police are just too militarized.
We'd better do it guerilla style instead. Any ideas?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #229
232. Yes we can, our police have always been militarized
goes with the term paramilitary force...

And going guerilla, well you mean in a military fashion... have fun with that militarized police.

There is more, our police is NOT more militarized than the police in places like oh Egypt or Greece... Yes, when the time comes, and it will come, people will die. I am fully aware of that.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #232
238. No I did not mean going military by going guerilla.
I meant disruption of business as usual by strikes and other means. It just means you have to disrupt suddenly, unexpectedly and retreat just as fast. Oh, yes and I think peacefully. I see in this day and age no need to get hurt by putting oneself in harm's way. It's the working class that have to make the statement against the oligarchies.

A good start would be to stop banking with the big ass banks and support the local community run banks and credit unions.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #238
261. We already do
and yes, strikes are coming as well. Talk of them was all over the place during the Wisconsin mess. The last time any thing like that happened was over a generation ago.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #261
269. I also think jamming up the works would work.
How about getting a force of cars to cause a traffic jam at the entrances to the airports in DC that the Congress goes to to get out of town on those days and at the times they leave? Yes put signs on the cars stating that we are disgusted with what they did the last session like the bill they passed last night the Cut, Cap and Balance act. By the time police clear the jam, they will have missed their planes and would have to take a second flight. In the meantime the protestors are gone. No one to arrest. Do stuff like this enough times and they will get the message and it will scare them. There is no need for violence, just arrive, gum up the works of business as usual and get out before the arrests begin.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #269
274. Flash mobs, I like it
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Skip_In_Boulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-19-11 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
230. Nadin, I don't know if we can do that
It kind of violates the meme of the "Can't we all just get along", faction of the Democratic party. :sarcasm:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #230
231. I know I know, but there is something strange happening to this
party... actually something that will take a while for the base to figure out. It happens every oh fifty years or so... we were overdue.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
233. When mom and dad cannot buy food or afford to drive anymore.
It will take so long that it might be too late by then.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #233
235. The people are getting radicalized,
and WI showed that it is already in the air.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #235
237. I know many conservative southerners that would agree with you
and actually believe a civil war is coming and soon. Now, ask if they know which side they are one...not so clear and then ask WHO is going to be fighting in this war...no idea, just that there will be some big ass s'plosions and a lot of fun gunfire...yea! :crazy:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #237
262. Well, they WANT that civil war
and not precisely for the reasons some of us expect it.

I hope, my silly hope, that this revolution stays mostly peaceful, like oh the New Deal. And make no mistake about it, it was a revolution.

But many conservatives, WHITE older men. let's be clear who we are talking about... hate the man in the WH and them yankees and want to see the south rise again.

And if we are not careful, we might get a civil war, and a revolution.

Me, unlike them, know what the civil war means, and it is not precisely the honor and glory they envision.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
239. Other ideas --
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 01:23 AM by defendandprotect
would be to unite in actions --

Like "lights out" at a given time to show unity --

Regularly pulling our cars over on the streets for 15 minutes or so

at a given signal --

Joining in various actions -- not buying gasoline on a given day --

Wearing buttons -- MEDICARE FOR ALL -- END THE WARS ---

Printing out brief info from the internet -- and passing it along to other citizens --

Whatever -- we need to be creative -- and non-violent --



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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #239
270. Your ideas are on track but not extreme enough.
Pulling cars over on the street only gives a wider swath for the limos to ride through. Instead you have to cause a traffic jam as I suggested up thread so that they can't get to where they are going. Also, get unionized utility workers like trash collection etc. to slow down and not collect all the trash. Let it pile up. Yet show up for work everyday, just don't work as hard. Then you don't lose wages. Show them how bad things can be if they persist on ignoring the working class.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #270
283. Certainly agree with one point you made ... every worker needs to slow down ....
Edited on Wed Jul-20-11 01:52 PM by defendandprotect
Increasing productivity is simply to turn yourself into slave labor --

What I am suggesting is ideas for organizing, getting people used to seeing how many

of us there are involved --

once you had a very workable organized force going, then you could decide what else

to do -- but in the beginning, people have to begin to organize and to recognize how

many are involved -- the "all togetherness" of it --

The power of the powerless!!

But no slow down is effective unless all workers are united -- for that we need all

Americans to understand we are ALL LABOR -- !! And ALL EXPLOITABLE by corporations -- !!

We need to see the numbers -- and feel the movement first --



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July16th-20th Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
272. Depends on how "Loud" we are willing to get
:argh:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
277. There IS a solution,
...no matter WHAT the Status Quo naysayers ^above^ insist,
there IS a solution,
and it has been given to us by our neighbors to the south.

The Bolivarian Reforms sweeping across South & Central America are nothing short of (near) bloodless revolutions.
They have taken their governments BACK from the hands of the predatory Oligarchs.

"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales


FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights.
Bolivian President Evo Morales sounds more like FDR than anyone in the current Democratic Party Leadership.

The "change" in Latin America gives me "hope" for The World.
Unfortunately, things will get worse here before they get better,
so hunker down for a while.
It IS coming.

When the Working Class & The Poor realize we have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the Leadership of BOTH Political parties,
we can have "change".

As long as our RICH politicians and their friends in the Media can keep the National Debate
focused between the bookends of the Fool's Choice between the two established Political parties,
the charade will continue.

If the Debt Ceiling Disaster Capitalism Kabuki does nothing else,
and the Social Safety Net is further dismantled
along with Already Paid For "trimming" of Social Security & Medicare,
it will bring us one step closer.

VIVA Democracy!
I pray we get some here soon.
Until then, I'll be growing my own food.



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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #277
281. Well why I say we need to return to capitalism, what exists today
Is far closer to... Mercantilism than people realize.

And yes, it's started here already, in places like WI.
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guitar man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
278. I'd guess it varies
It depends on how long each one of us can keep our rent/mortgage/bills paid. I fear we'll all wind up in the streets eventually :(
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Duer 157099 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
282. When we're all living there
on the streets, that is. Until then, there are jobs and bills and everything else that takes all of our attention.

But fear not, that day approaches soon, very soon.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #282
284. We had jobs in the past too, and we managed
But the day is comming.
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RegieRocker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
286. When people don;t take to the streets for the crap that goes on
locally why on earth would people do it for national crap.
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Waiting For Everyman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-20-11 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
287. When a tipping point number of us has nothing left to lose.
The media won't cover it, but Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube (or something newer like them) will.

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