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MoveON has recieved it's marching orders . (and they can kiss my behind)

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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:01 PM
Original message
MoveON has recieved it's marching orders . (and they can kiss my behind)
Yesterday, Moveon.org's Cleveland Council and the Universal Health Care Action Network announced its members will hold a demonstration on Tuesday afternoon outside Kucinich's Lakewood office, the day after President Obama visits a Strongsville recreation center in Kucinich's district to restate his case for health care reform.

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/03/rep_den...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Where's your evidence that MoveOn has received "Marching orders"?
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. someone is making sure they follow party line
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. that's your evidence? lame. very, very fucking lame.
believe it or not, dear, "because I say so" is NOT evidence. duh.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. heh. Im a 60 yr old' dear'. dearie might be better.
hey, if I cannot sit in on MoveOn's agenda meetings, Im sorry.

someone is deciding they want this bill passed, no matter what. who wants it passed without a Public Option? plenty of bluedogs.

assuming here, yes, that bluedogs run MoveOn. or give them their orders.

now be nice, or Ill sing TROLOLO :)
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. sing it shout it but that still doesn't make for evidence.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. okay, I guess they decided this on their own with no coercion from anyone
you know I love you cali
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
33. There IS evidence that MoveOn has been co-opted by the White House,
and has turned their back on their supporters in return for "access".
In fact, there is MORE than "evidence".
There IS the observable REALITY.

"What is clear here is that CAP and MoveOn are now basically psuedo-official PR flaks targeting "liberals" to support the White House agenda. This, though, should not come as a shock to those who have closely monitored these groups.

<snip>
The Common Purpose meeting every Tuesday afternoon at the Capitol Hilton brings together the top officials from a range of left-leaning organizations, from labor groups like Change to Win to activists like MoveOn.org, all in support of the White House's agenda. The group has an overlapping membership with a daily 8:45 a.m. call run by the Center for American Progress' and Media Matters' political arms; with the new field-oriented coalition Unity '09; and with the groups that allied to back the budget as the Campaign to Rebuild and Renew America Now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-scahill/rahm-emanu...
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. not surprised. Remember how they failed to get involved regarding the election theft in '04?
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. I joined them when they first started.
When they began, they wanted Congress to censure Clinton for his affair with Monica and move on to the business of governing our country. I liked it.

I participated in their actions, wrote emails, signed petitions, bought videos.

Remember when they had a poll in 2004, asking us to endorse the Democratic Presidential candidate of our choice? I did not like that. I thought they should stay away from any endorsement, even if it was the candidate of my choice. A group like MoveOn should remain free to criticize or take action against any politician who does not live up to liberal values. I would rather see them stand up for issues. Too many Democrats are betraying us at the moment. We need to have the power to make them listen to us and change what they are doing.

The powers that be at MoveOn were disappointed that there was no clear winner for a MoveOn endorsement in their 2004 poll. They made no secret of the fact that they wanted to endorse Dean, but they honored their promise not to endorse anyone if there was no majority winner. I was relieved that there was no endorsement before the primary.

When they endorsed Obama for President during the primaries, I moved on and dropped my membership. I would have dropped my membership if they had supported Clinton or Edwards as well. Let the party endorse. Let newspapers endorse, women's groups, labor groups, and others. MoveOn's hands were tied by an endorsement. It hampered their abilities to get our issues out in front. Clearly, none of our candidates were that far left of center, based on their statements and records. It was up to MoveOn to push our candidates to the left, not to spend time defending them when they took the side of corporations or other big money interests. Let them endorse the nominee AFTER the convention, as long as they still hold him accountable! MoveOn was supposed to be a watchdog for the people!

Election theft was exactly the issue they should have taken a stand on. They could have made so much noise about it and presented so many facts that the Republicans would have been ruined for years to come. That is far better than holding house parties, circulating meaningless Internet petitions and endorsing individuals who need to be held accountable at all times.





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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Me too. I hosted several "Bake Back the Whitehouse" fundraisers at my business
and raised over $1,300 for them, but this is going too far. We stopped donating to them when they failed to act on the election fraud in Ohio.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I believe they should be there in support of DK.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. have they marched at Stupacks offices or at any of the bluedog
offices? yelled about taking single payer or public option off the table?

just wonderin.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Not that I've heard about
Interesting.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. I supported Dennis. I contributed to Dennis. But right now, Dennis is wrong and MoveOn is right.
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 03:54 PM by Ian David
However, with that said, I am still glad that Dennis is talking the way he is.

His voice is an important one, and his argument needs to be heard.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. I organized the launch of their book on the West Coast
in 2004 and after that experience (which was fine for our community with little help from MO), that was it for me.

When our election was stolen, they went dark.

They are not a grass roots organization; their actions are all from the top down despite their rigged polls.

No, thanks.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:12 PM
Original message
I almost joined them back in the day when Bush was in office
looked like a good thing at the time.
everything seems to be getting the 'Midas Touch' these days, or something.
corporate people seem to be in charge of a lot of what used to be organizations I was hoping would implement change.

ah , well.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. Their publisher sent me flowers from Hawaii for getting them on teevee.
instead of just following the script I was sent.

Well, they've put together some good actions and I will still support those as they arise but as an org, it's a rich couple and not some democratic organization.
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't want to be forced to pay private corporations for half ass/poorly managed health care.
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 02:21 PM by 951-Riverside
Until there is real reform like making it a felony punishable by 5 years minimum in prison to terminate a patient's coverage or deny them proper care without good cause, Obama, Nancy and the rest can take this corporate welfare "reform" and cram it where the sun don't shine.
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. they are marching against Kucinich.
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951-Riverside Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. My mistake!
Just edited my post. Thanks. :thumbsup:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. If insurance companies are the problem, a mandate to buy insurance is not the solution
no matter how much I might want this president to succeed.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. That's OK, just pay your fine & get on with your life. I think Dennis is
just being too subborn on this issue. I'm pissed at Stupek, and all the other Dems who refuse to vote for our current HC bill, and I'm pissed at Dennis for his refusal even though his reasons are different that most of the others. I'm nowhere near Ohio or I'd be there outside of his office.
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terrell9584 Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Why should we have to pay it?
What's ethical about it?
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Because if you don't have aany ins. & you get sick I have to pay
your YOUR ER care. That's not fair & ethical treatment of those of us who do buy ins.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. BULLSHIT!
I pay my own way.
Two visits to ER in last 8 years.
BOTH paid in full.

I will let the Democratic Party make me a criminal before I will give a single damned nickel to a For Profit Health Insurance Corporation.

Mandatory Profits for the Health Insurance Industry is NOT "Universal Health Care" OR "Reform".
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Go Move On! Fight for the American People!
:patriot:
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. For the American People?
Well, I suppose there are some American people being employed by Health Insurance companies. Probably more than a couple American lobbyists who benefit too.

So uh... go MoveOn. I guess.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Don't forget the American people who are hospital execs. They're people, too! nt
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Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
40. You mean the Insurance Companies
That have been sticking it to us for years. If that what you mean then Go Move-on!
Without a strong public option this bill is nothing more than a give away to the insurance companies. If I had a choice I wouldn't give those Bastards at Blue Crooks and Blue Shield another dime.
Health Care is a right not a product to be sold for profit.
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thanks for posting
I guess everyone has their price.
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SandWalker1984 Donating Member (533 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ever hear of "controlled opposition?"
Don't think they just take over the "other" side's groups. The current tea party was started by Ron Paul supporters who are pro-constitution and wanted our government to end illegals practices such as spying on Americans/the Patriot Act. The group has been co-opted and taken over by corporate hacks working for the Republicans. The original goals of the group have been subverted and many people, thanks to corporate media, now consider them nothing more than old, white Americans that are racist.

We are now seeing that many of the left's so called opposition groups and bloggers are nothing more than corporate controlled opposition -- Ed Schultz, Dailykos's Markos Moulitsas, now Move On. The right has Glenn Beck, we on the left have these people/groups.

People that were against the Senate bill are now suddenly for it. With no explanation except "it's better than nothing." WRONG! It will make things worse because we will all be MANDATEd to buy corporate provided, private insurance. That does not guarantee health care (especially with high deductibles and low reimbursements). The only thing fixed will be the profits of the insurance industry.

Now that THEIR corporate mandated profit bill is in danger due to public opposition, the true colors start flying and we now see who the controlled opposition are.

Don't be fooled by them.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. Not to mention the despicable abortion language. On the bright side, seeing who the corporate
controlled opposition (great term) are is a very good thing.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yeah for Moveon!
Kucinich isn't above critique.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
25. Gosh, it seems there is now a need for a bigger bus...
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Probably need their own bus
The one I'm under is where they throw the consistent supporters of liberal policies.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. tools and fools (n/t)
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
34. I wish the Obama White House would spend as much time targeting Republicans...
...as they do targeting real "Democrats".

That would be a refreshing "CHANGE I could believe in."

--bvar22
Proud member of the "Fucking Retards" wing of the Democratic Party.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. except this isn't the Obama White House. Period.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Yes it IS. Period. Exclamation Point!
"What is clear here is that CAP and MoveOn are now basically psuedo-official PR flaks targeting "liberals" to support the White House agenda. This, though, should not come as a shock to those who have closely monitored these groups.

<snip>
The Common Purpose meeting every Tuesday afternoon at the Capitol Hilton brings together the top officials from a range of left-leaning organizations, from labor groups like Change to Win to activists like MoveOn.org, all in support of the White House's agenda. The group has an overlapping membership with a daily 8:45 a.m. call run by the Center for American Progress' and Media Matters' political arms; with the new field-oriented coalition Unity '09; and with the groups that allied to back the budget as the Campaign to Rebuild and Renew America Now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeremy-scahill/rahm-emanu...
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Mr Scahill provides scant evidence for his claim. as in no evidence whatsoever.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. LOL

Scahill provides much more "evidence" than you do.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
38. Ohioans need to show up in support of Dennis in a counter protest.
I hope that they do so.
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Matt Shapiro Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
42. Holding a demonstration against Kucinich is disgusting.
Dennis Kucinich is the best member of Congress. He fearlessly stands for the progressive position on every issue. He is completely right about the health care bill.

It really doesn't matter if MoveOn is responding to marching orders or not (although it is likely that they are). Their planned action itself is contemptible.

Despite having a couple of good aspects, the bill hurts more people than it helps. It is a giveaway to the health insurance and pharmaceutical giants. Expanding Medicaid is a good thing (if the States can come up with their share). Community clinics are a good thing. But fleecing the uninsured who will not be Medicaid eligible by forcing them to buy a defective product (high co-pays, no premium caps) is horrible. Effectively ending abortion rights for all but the very wealthy (with or without the Stupak language) is horrible. It is certainly not a fair exchange.

And anyone who thinks the insurance companies won't find ways to deny care to those with pre-existing conditions, who will be able to buy extremely expensive insurance in 2014, is utterly naive. Health insurance companies make their money by NOT paying claims. Just because a sick person (now) has an insurance policy does not mean the insurance company will actually pay for the care they need to stay alive. Sorry, that procedure is experimental. Your provider is charging way too much for that service. We'll give you 25% of that.

As Dennis Kucinich correctly said -- this bill is a $70 billion giveaway to the insurance industry. The only truly viable solution is improved Medicare for All. By going along with the Democratic Party leadership position that Single Payer was off the table from day one, groups like MoveOn and HCAN adopted an idiotic negotiating position that was doomed to failure. Had the entire progressive movement been unified around Single Payer, and conducted a massive educational campaign about an idea that is SIMPLE and works in every other major industrialized nation, we might have actually won it. 60% of the American people support the idea when polled (properly) even without a publicity campaign. We certainly wouldn't now be fighting a last ditch losing effort for a minuscule public option that would have too few subscribers to be meaningful as a competitor to the insurance giants.

If we were forced to compromise after standing united on Medicare for All, it would probably be for a truly robust public option that would cover ANYONE who wanted it and would likely subscribe 125 million Americans. That would be real competition and would be meaningful, even if it did not immediately provide a complete solution. Kucinich said he would consider compromising his position if the compromise was for something real. He even made reference to the kind of compromise stated here.

The only reason for any progressive to support this flawed, harmful bill is to support the party. That is just not good enough.

I stand with Dennis Kucinich.

And MoveOn can kiss mine too.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
43. The Museum for the Ukraine will come to his defense...
they are the pinnacle of his legislative achievements after all.

3 for 98.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. Why bother?
Leave Dennis alone--he's not going to help anyone but himself.
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