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EXCLUSIVE: Daniel Ellsberg Says Sibel Edmonds Case 'Far More Explosive Than Pentagon Papers'

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BradBlog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:53 AM
Original message
EXCLUSIVE: Daniel Ellsberg Says Sibel Edmonds Case 'Far More Explosive Than Pentagon Papers'


EXCLUSIVE: Daniel Ellsberg Says Sibel Edmonds Case 'Far More Explosive Than Pentagon Papers'
'Gagged' FBI Whistleblower, Risking Jail, Says American Media Has Refused Her Offer to Disclose Classified Information, Including Criminal Allegations, Information Concerning 'Security of Americans'

Charges Several Mainstream Publications Have Been Informed of 'Full Story' by Other FBI Leakers Nearly a Year Ago, Have Remained Mum...

-- Brad Friedman, The BRAD BLOG

"I'd say what she has is far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers," Daniel Ellsberg told us in regard to former FBI translator turned whistleblower Sibel Edmonds.

"From what I understand, from what she has to tell, it has a major difference from the Pentagon Papers in that it deals directly with criminal activity and may involve impeachable offenses," Ellsberg explained. "And I don't necessarily mean the President or the Vice-President, though I wouldn't be surprised if the information reached up that high. But other members of the Executive Branch may be impeached as well. And she says similar about Congress."

The BRAD BLOG spoke recently with the legendary 1970's-era whistleblower in the wake of our recent exclusive, detailing Edmonds' announce that she was prepared to risk prosecution to expose the entirety of the still-classified information that the Bush Administration has "gagged" her from revealing for the past five years under claims of the arcane "State Secrets Privilege".

Ellsberg, the former defense analyst and one-time State Department official, knows well the plight of whistleblowers. He himself was prepared to spend his life in prison for the exposure of some 7,000 pages of classified Department of Defense documents, concerning Executive Branch manipulation of facts and outright lies leading the country into an extended war in Vietnam.

Ellsberg seemed hardly surprised that today's American mainstream broadcast media has so far failed to take Edmonds up on her offer, despite the blockbuster nature of her allegations.

As Edmonds has also alluded, Ellsberg pointed to the New York Times, who "sat on the NSA spying story for over a year" when they "could have put it out before the 2004 election, which might have changed the outcome."

"There will be phone calls going out to the media saying 'don't even think of touching it, you will be prosecuted for violating national security,'" he told us.

"I have been receiving calls from the mainstream media all day," Edmonds recounted the day after we ran the story announcing that she was prepared to violate her gag-order to disclose all of the national security-related criminal allegations she has been kept from disclosing for the past five years.

"The media called from Japan and France and Belgium and Germany and Canada and from all over the world," she told The BRAD BLOG.

"But not from here?," we asked incredulously.

"I'm getting contact from all over the world, but not from here. Isn't that disgusting?," she shot back...



COMPLETE STORY: http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5260
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for all you do to keep this alive.
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midlife_mo_Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
100. Tell the foreign media, and find asylum somewhere!
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #100
181. That's what I was thinking. Surely the British papers would publish it.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Gotta hope this will change. Thank you. n/t
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Bring It On!"
If we wait until we have a democratic crew is in power after 2008, to hear what this lady has to say the shit will hit the fan is a much larger quantity IMHO. There will be nobody in the GOPer Crony Corps left in power to pardon the guilty! Let the GOPers keep putting it off and keep dancing around this for now...but "be sure, the truth will find you out!"
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. The Democrats will sweep it under the rug
Just like everything done under RayGun's administration was, and the same cabal will rise again another day.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
34. Not if she's DEAD.
I'm absolutely FURIOUS over this. I keep calling Waxman's office for an explanation and the staffers say, "It's on his radar.".

What the fuck good is that? They can get her testimony on file ANY time... and the longer they wait, the better chance there is she might have an 'accident'.

I pray to God she stays safe until we've badgered these pieces of shit into actually doing something.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #34
57. This woman is brilliant and tenacious.
I'll bet she has a mechanism in place to automatically spill all the beans in the event of her untimely, um, passing.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #34
168. Absolutely--we all need to pray for this brave lady!
Re I pray to God she stays safe until we've badgered these pieces of shit into actually doing something.

She is putting herself in danger just by announcing her intention to tell her story even if she risks prosecution. In BushWorld, that's just asking for martyrdom.

So I made a point of asking the Goddess to take Sibel Edmonds under Her protection as soon as I read the lead story posted here, before I read any of the replies.




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superkia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
144. I dont think our system is corrupted by only one party, so keep...
hoping it will come out but don't hold your breath. Same with impeachment, there are too many worms from both sides that would be exposed if you open those cans.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. And sadly, very sadly, nothing will ever come of this.
The Hillary Clinton administration will make sure of it.

God knows the feckless Democrats in THIS Congress sure as hell won't touch anything that might stand in the Bush-Clinton dynasty's way.

.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
35. If people haven't figured out that we really DON'T have a choice by now...
Yes, Hillary is the next 'selected' President. Sure, that'd be better than any openly-hostile-to-the-people Republican, but she'll still further a corporate-friendly agenda.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #35
157. She'll protect and further BushInc just like Bill did and THAT is my concern.
Our country and the world cannot AFFORD a continuation of the coverups.


http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

Democrats need to put this in the context of BushInc's assault on our constitution and vote accordingly for accountability.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
98. (my mother's prediction: "she's not going to get in. and neither is obama." )
i was just reading this thread to her and she said that--she's pretty old, but her little "predictions" have always been right.
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
6. K and R
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Norrin Radd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. k+r
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Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
8. There needs to be an act if disobedience to bring attention
to Sibel. It has to be creative enough that it would be impossible for the media to ignore it. :dem:
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think we frogs have lounged in the hot tub too long to jump out.
We (meaning "our elected leaders in Congress") have allowed the heat to be turned up while detention facilities were being built and laws were being passed which turned simply "civil disobedience" into seditionist offenses which will could have even our some of our grandma's labeled "the enemy."
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. When you come up with it, let us know.
Contacting the media and politicians hasn't worked so far. It's a shame when people who live in other countries know more about your government than you do. It's the definition of a closing society.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #8
37. Oh... I have a great one.
It's harmless, simple, and would definitely get attention.

And I'd only explain it if I were absolutely certain I'd never do it.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
53. "Leak" it to Bob Novak.
Tell him she's a Democrat, and it will destroy her career.

Other than that, you'd think Sy Hersch would be all over this.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. Good One:-)
"Leak" it to Bob Novak" That's funny, lol.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
11. when was the last time
We needed to have Patriot Americans live in exile in order to tell the truth about our government? What does that say about where we are today? I agree with Sibel... it's disgusting.

Has she considered moving somewhere else temporarily, telling her story and waiting until the shit has hit the fan and spread all over before coming back? Surely a Dem president wouldn't prosecute her... would they?

K&R for shame

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The basics of her story is well known in the world.
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 08:44 AM by mmonk
She hasn't dropped all the names yet however. The problem is in this country, the basics or her are not well known. The question is since the basics are not well known despite being known in other countries, would telling all to a foreign press matter? Will it pierce our closing society?
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
26. surely
the naming of names as high up as they say would necessitate the US press' response. If it was The Guardian in an extensive interview or the BBC or some other big foreign press source it would leak into our mainstream.

I'd almost think it might make her more secure too. With the allegations actually out there and more domestic attention being paid to her, people would notice if she went missing or suffered from an accident.

I'm not confident our media would handle it fairly regardless. As i understand it there's at least 1 Democrat involved in her "naming" and they'd probably focus on that person incessantly, ignoring the 10 or 20 Rs also named.

The HJC needs to get their fingers outta their ears and their lawyers revved up and take this matter in hand and wrestle it to the ground. They need to force compliance with subpoenas and start having hearings everyday. And they need to send legislation to the full House to be voted on... like Impeachment, for instance.

:shrug:

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I don't have any answers other than everything is very tight and closed.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. I think you're way off on that one
I'd bet if you asked around, not even the basics of her name are known to the world. The only people who've ever heard of Sibel Edmonds are avid political blog readers. Bush's friendly media have otherwise kept her story safely hidden from view, tucked behind Britney's coochie.

.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. There has been a documentary in Europe.
She gets TV interviews there. She gets front page news coverage. Big difference.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. When Europe can impeach OUR president, I'll be impressed.
Here...meh. "Sibel WHO?"

.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. You're twisting things.
She gets coverage there, not enough here is the point.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. No, I'm not twisting anything
I know, as do most DUers, that if you want to know what is happening in the United States then you have to check out foreign news sources. I was merely pointing out the fallacy in "most people know the basics of her story." MOST PEOPLE might actually be mathematically correct, if you're counting the world population (but I'd even doubt that), but it absolutely not correct in the United States where "most people" don't even know the Vice President had impeachment charges filed against him. "Most people" in the US are woefully ignorant of ANYTHING going on in Washington. It is by design, of course.

.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:15 AM
Original message
Are you talking about this line?
"The question is since the basics are not well known despite being known in other countries, would telling all to a foreign press matter?"
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. Would this better suit you?
"She gets press in Europe and Turkey and Armenia, but not here" as the title of the post? I can't edit it for your criticism as the time has expired. The point of my post is that talking to the foreign press won't change things much IMO since she has already.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #48
62. I'm not exactly sure what the argument is, then
Your alternate sub line certainly would have made my point better, but I don't expect that's why you made your op. I understand that she is getting press all over the place, which in and of itself should be a US news story, but no one in the US media is touching it. So Ellsworth may be absolutely correct about the importance of Edmonds' statements and revelation, but what is the point as long as we have a lap dog media keeping the public intentionally uninformed.

DUers once again line up to post bouncies about "Yeah Daniel!" and "You go Sibel!" but it's meaningless. The only way politicians will respond is if there is some sort of public revelation and subsequent outcry. Since the media is making sure the public will never hear about Sibel Edmonds, there will be no outcry, and this will be just one more BushCo crime which will go down the memory hole. Or worse, after Hillary Clinton is installed to take over the Bush throne. Then the information will be locked away forever.

.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. Very true.
Information control.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
172. If Sibel tells her story to the foreign press it will work just fine.
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 10:19 PM by Raksha
Re DUers once again line up to post bouncies about "Yeah Daniel!" and "You go Sibel!" but it's meaningless. The only way politicians will respond is if there is some sort of public revelation and subsequent outcry. Since the media is making sure the public will never hear about Sibel Edmonds, there will be no outcry, and this will be just one more BushCo crime which will go down the memory hole.

Remember what happened with the Downing Street Minutes! The story was first published in a British paper (I think it was the Guardian but I'm not going to stop and check my files) and then it was all over the blogosphere in about 24 hours. And then the corporate media HAD to pay attention whether they wanted to or not.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
73. She was featured on 60 Minutes, maybe its time for a big follow-up...K&R n/t
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
127. Agree -- I'm only aware of her and the situation because of DU. nt
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. K & R
Excellent Job, Brad! Thank You :-)
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Why won't the Dems call her to testify under oath?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Things to hide, positions to hold, people to protect I suppose.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
112. And the willingness to be pliable, moldable and led about
by stronger minds and will. This holds true for all those complacent to the decline of our nation.

I fear for Sibel. I don't think there's a place in this world where she would be safe if her story - the whole story - got out.

I think, though, we, a collective we, on the internet, are the only people in this nation who have the guts to get the story out. They can't kill us all.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
171. Oswald was CIA --- no one is powerful enough to bring that story forth ---
Same thing is happening re Sibel --

If Waxman wanted to undertake the testimony --- it would be suppressed ---
probably has been --- because the power has been usurped from Congress ---

and there is no one powerful enough to challenge it ---

I was shocked and furious the first time I heard this --- and kept fighting it mentally ---
but, unfortunately, I think it's true --- !!!


We got lucky with Ellsberg ---
a couple of these things are going to have to break together ---

Nixon actually orchestrated his own downfall ---
Bush seems to have been doing the same all along --- but the house of cards doesn't fall ---
and NOW . . . when it does, it may take all Americans with it --- ?????


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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R for Sibel Edmonds
And for Daniel Ellsberg.

:kick:
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
128. And for Mike Gravel who introduced the Pentagon Papers into the Public Record. nt
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. Why Doesn't She Just Put Up a Blog?
Why does she need the mainstream media to sanctify and bless what she has to say?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. She has these
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #19
32. Neither of those sites work for me
Can anyone else see them?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #32
44. Are you at home or at work through a server?
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Tarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
161. I was at work before
but works fine now at home. Thanks.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #161
166. Very good.
I thought maybe a web server was blocking you.
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AikidoSoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
125. I can see both fine. No problem in either Mozilla (Firefox), or Internet Explorer N/T
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. No problem with Safari, either. nt
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
66. Great site
There's a good piece there to use to counter the "I have nothing to fear because I've done nothing wrong" argument allowing the government unlimited power:
http://www.nswbc.org/Op%20Ed/All%20Thats%20Given%20up%2...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. Yep. She's straight forward.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. great work
kudos to dan, sibel and brad.

as for congress and the msm, not so much...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. You forgot to list yourself.
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 09:05 AM by mmonk
So I will. Kudos to lukery.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #21
46. square that....
.
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vickitulsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #21
178. YES, thank you Lukery.
You are the primary reason I know about Sibel, and I've taken to mentioning her name to almost everyone I talk to -- even spontaneous chats with strangers in the grocery store and such (I'm good about that *wink*).

It's really not hard to spread almost any information far and wide if you just speak it -- and I mean speak it a LOT and to everyone you come across. Find ways to work it into the conversation. Hell, START a conversation with anyone, in an elevator, a store, anywhere. All you have to do is mention *'s name or some other hot topic but not get too inflammatory at first if possible. Use humor; smile and adopt that "knowing look" but as if your listener, you're just sure, has good opinions and ideas and is knowledgeable, too.

(Not trying to coach here, really, just saying what I do.)

Then I refer to SECRETS in our government, and without exception, everyone HATES this whole concept and seems to recognize that it's very much in evidence and also very dangerous to us all.

Then I bring up Sibel's name in that context, often simply asking if my conversation partner has ever heard of her. I say it with conviction in my voice that she is someone we all should know about, should hear out, should pay close attention to when she speaks. That gets their attention because people want to be in the know, want to avoid being fooled and taken for an easy mark by politicians with their tricks and deceit.

Even if only a sentence or two is exchanged in a public place (I love it when others overhear and lean closer too), and I never see those people again, I always go away feeling that I've definitely awakened someone's interest in learning more about Sibel's story and the truths she has to tell us. I feel sure they will key in on that name the first time they hear it, maybe in the corporatemedia, even, and they will listen hard. I can even imagine some being as motivated as I am, willing to pick up a phone and contact whatever media outlet aired or printed anything about Sibel and say, "It's about time! Tell us more!"

People like it when they realize they are privileged, so to speak, to be let in on a secret that is very important -- it's kind of like receiving a special revelation of sorts, right? This is the only way in which I highly approve of the rumor game or the gossip game, in fact.

I really don't care WHY anyone decides to learn more. I just want them to DO IT. So much depends on it, so much is at stake!


So thank you Lukery, and all you others who have long persisted in making Sibel's name familiar to everyone else. And sorry about my rant, but I do get excited every time I see another bit of info about Sibel. :blush:


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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
22. Several of our high ranking politicians know the details of her story--
these are the people who should be relentlessly hounded for reasons about why the secrecy. THEY know! and yet do nothing, say nothing as TRUE ENABLERS of * cronyism/criminialism/traitorous profiteering sumbitches.... My fuse gets shorter and shorter, right along with less and less hope.

NoFederales
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. You are so right.
It's a bad time to have a broadcast and print media that doesn't operate as a fourth estate.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. NY Times & The NSA Story
NY Times still hasn't responded as to why they sat on that NSA story for ONE YEAR!!!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yep.
Governmental meddling or lawyer advice? Who knows?
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. pakistan nukes
the NYT had a story yesterday that the NYT sat on a story about pakistan nukes FOR THREE YEARS
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
25. And the general public yawns and says..Daniel WHO?..
He's one of MANY voices who has been effectively SILENCED for DECADES..

People would care more about things llike this, if they had regularly been exposed to the thinkers & smart people who have been pushed to the gutter since the 70's.. It really aggravates me to think of all the really smart people we should have had on tv and in the papers & magazines all this time.. but then with them speaking out, we would never have had Reagan/Bush/Bush ..
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Homer Wells Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
131. Maybe---Just Maybe
the MSM would jump on her story if it were revealed, in its entirety, by Brittany Spears, with the intellectual help of Paris Hilton!!

:sarcasm:
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #131
137. sadly it's true
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #137
159. I think daddy Hilton would probably disinherit Paris if she helped Sibel...
She can be as naughty as she wants every place else, but doing that is probably on one of the bridges she's probably been told not to cross!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
29. Also.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. thnx n/t
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:43 AM
Response to Original message
36. and this is one story that Waxman will NOT touch (as far as I know)
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. Yes, he promised. Then reneged. Someone got to him.
I'm willing to bet it's related to the presidential race.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #38
47. You mean the same people who deep-sixed the Dec 1992 BCCI report?
.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Just speculating.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Not me. I know it outright. ;)))
.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #50
51. Tell it.
;-)
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #38
55. "They" showed him the instruments,
then took him down the rabbit hole where I guess he likes it.

NoFederales
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #38
82. That or he's just another Congressional liar and was called on his bluff.
n/t
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whyzayker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
40. This part bothered me (KO)
What about Kieth Olbermann? Surely he'd pick up this story! A producer at MSNBC's Countdown --- perhaps the outlet most often suggested to us as likely willing to interview her --- expressed interest during multiple inquiries we'd made to them. Each time, the promise was made to call us back with information on whether they would do the interview, and if not, why not. They never called us back.

Why? Why haven't any called or called back? Better yet - maybe we should call and ask why. It's shameful that more people know who won "American Idol."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
45. Unfortunately, even some DUers side with secrecy and privilege and continue to deny
that there is something far more sinister going on then the public is allowed to know and that it stretches back decades.

The unanswered questions in the Dec 1992 BCCI report, and the continuing coverup of these matters that have connected to 9-11 and almost everything happening today should be enough to convince any rational person that the story is DEEP and needs full exposure.


http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci /

Matters For Further Investigation

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:


1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.


2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.


3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.


4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al-Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.


5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.


6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.


7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.


8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.


9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.


10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.


11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.


12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.


13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.


14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.


15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.


16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.


17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.


18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.


19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.


20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #45
52. A separate Thread
This is a very good point, however, it will be more productive to post your response as a thread rather than a reply.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #52
65. I have.
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 11:42 AM by blm
I repeat this BECAUSE it is so important for Dems and every citizen to grasp.

You are welcome to use this excerpt from the report and start a thread with it and share your views. This forum could use another view that understands the import of the details.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
56. "But not from here?," we asked incredulously.
C'mon... surely no one is surprised by this.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #56
58. Not Us...
...but 90% of our people are still asleep.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Yeah... I thought the "we" there referred to the bradblog staff...
in which case, well...
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
59. Is it there a connection between Dems not moving on impeachment
and the facts, acts, and names within this case?

Don't you feel powerless when you know that so many have acted against you and you don't even know what the act is/was? And you know that a certain per cent of your neighbors and friends don't care? And that your collective air waves are silent? That no elected leaders are guarding your welfare? That a conspiracy of silence and secrecy reigns?

The heroes will stand out in history. As will the criminals and their thousands of enablers.

Commit some act of kindness today as a tribute and thank you to whistleblowers.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #59
64. Very much possible.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #59
67. And THAT is what compels me to stay on the corruption of closed government.
No matter who it annoys.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
61. Justice is waiting in the telling of her story. Our media and government are holding us hostage!
What will it take to get the truth to the American people?
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. Doing Our Share
This means: go pick up the phone and call CBS, NBC, ABC...call Waxman. Start sending e-mails and let them know were we the people stand, what we demand...
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
69. My head is spinning! SIbel is right in holding the msm guilty......of
so many infractions of purposeful omissions to the news content in the U.S. K&R
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
70. I just called Linktv about airing Sibel.
I managed to get in to their media advisor's line, and talk for a while.

I suggested they take this on. And to my surprise, she said they are supposedly giving this some thought. This is a critical juncture for both the independent media outlets and America. I see one of the finest groups on the air making a quantum jump into the main stream, by taking this very serious interview on.

Brad, if you have the means, you might also work this on your end. In the unlikely event that Sibel doesn't know about Linktv, you might pass this on to her. They are not mainstream. But there is more to this story than the means by which it sees the light of day. I think she might be making a mistake by thinking the story must air live. And any station that can air this live, will certainly be restrained. Linktv is not regulated by all aspects of FCC law. For what that may be worth. But they have integrity. And once the interview is made, it won't be able to be suppressed.

There is no time to wait. How many people must die before we put a stop to this mess we're in.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Good Job!
That's what it takes: calling, e-mailing, and not letting them off the hook....
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Very good.
If they or someone takes it up, we must hit the print media as well as a follow up to take a look at it.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #70
77. thanks for calling
if 1/10th of us actually called the msm and congress, that would make a helluva difference.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Call List
Maybe we should post the list with the phone numbers and e-mail addresses?anyone?

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #70
109. When I donated to Link and Free Speech TV earlier, I'd asked for them to air "Kill the Messenger"...
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 02:09 PM by calipendence
We still might want to ask them to do that as a "drawing card" to have her be interviewed along with it, or at least her and an interviewer ask the audience to pound on the mainstream media to talk to her. With a larger audience from having watched the doc piece, perhaps we can help her get the "tipping point" with one of the MSM companies so that they realize that there are already a sizable number of people that know of this, and that by continuing to ignore it, they will look more like propagandists and obfuscators of important information rather than ones who disseminate it in the public interest.

Keith O. It's time to ante up and play your poker cards NOW! This is what will make MSNBC the network that folks will go to if you get this story out, and you being the topic of the sequel to "Good Night, and Good Luck" many years from now.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #109
133. And there is Democracy Now.
Yes, KO. Dan Rather.

But perhaps Democracy Now has a larger audience than we might realize. Amy Goodman covered the East Timore invasion. I think she's working on this as we speak.

This could be the big break for a little outlet.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
75. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...tell your story to the Guardian UK or Times Herald AND BE DONE WITH IT!
It's time to shit or get off the pot, Edmonds. If this information is so explosive and valuable to our nation, then why are you waiting for an invitation. Get your ass out of the country and tell all (with DOCUMENTATION). Otherwise, this dragging on-and-on is starting to smell of bullshit.

J
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. The Guardian already ran her story.
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 12:25 PM by mmonk
Though not all.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. And, why not all? Did she fail to tell them all? WTF?
This dragging on-and-on is only hurting her case. Otherwise, I'm calling bullshit and this constant drip-drip is just part of an "Edmonds industry."

J
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. What's your issue and why do you call bullshit?
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 12:42 PM by mmonk
Have it here out in the open. She is gagged by the government.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. The call of "BS" is that she won't tell whatever she has except to US media
If she has more to tell, she should tell it to the Guardian. If it's clear the American media won't touch it, and she's got a well-distributed, respected English-language outlet that will, she needs to, as was said up thread, shit or get off the pot here.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #83
85. I suppose she could but why risk it
when nobody here would report on it? It would be no gain and possible trouble.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. The Guardian is "nobody"?
Lots of stories have broken in the UK media, at which point the US media couldn't ignore them anymore.

Obviously, since it's her ass on the line it's easy for me to sit here say she should tell the UK media, but IMO if she's willing to go to jail and has a story of crimes that were committed, she should tell the Guardian everything. Right now it looks like she was bluffing and the US media called her on it.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. Exactly. The Downing Street Memos were broken overseas, too.
I'm not buying that she's willing to put her neck on the line, but only if she can communicate through a US media outlet. What would it matter if it were US media or some other well-respected, but non-US media outlet? Either way she's likely to be prosecuted.

What's additionally troubling is the unwillingness to come right out with her info. If it is proved to be true, then any governmental actions against her for speaking the truth would only reinforce the legitimacy of her story. If they still persist, she would easily be pardoned by the next Dem President.

J
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #91
102. Why would you gag someone to the point of being the most
gagged person in the history of the United States if she had nothing to say and was not credible? Besides, Leahy and Grassley said she was credible.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #102
110. All I know is the routes she wishes to take appear to be going nowhere.
If given no other alternatives, what's to be lost if the information is revealed via overseas media?

All I'm seeing right now is a "cause celeb" for Dems with no substantial payoff.

J
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #110
122. I don't think Noodley or I are being anti-Sibel
It's just that at this point she's been saying for a long time that she has explosive revelations but isn't telling anybody. At some point that gets old and more difficult to believe. I'm really worried about Sibel having a "24 business hours" moment at some point in the near future.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #102
121. What did she tell them, and when? And if they know what she said why aren't they saying it?
And for that matter, where are the gag orders to be found? How do I know she's the "most gagged person in history"?

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #121
126. Maybe this will help.
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #126
135. A link to the order(s) gagging her would help
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 03:48 PM by dmesg
I've never seen that; have you?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #135
140. Nobody is questioning she has been gagged. Why you?
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Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #140
142. Why not?
Not questioning claims people make is how we got into Iraq. How do all the people saying she's been gagged know she has been? How do you know? Why should I believe someone's claim on its face, particularly if she's saying she has additional explosive information she's not telling anyone.

See my sig line for the philosophy behind this...
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #142
147. Maybe this helps persuade you?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #135
141. This excerpt from 60 minutes concerning the PEN Newman Award help?
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 04:14 PM by mmonk
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #87
101. I did not say the Guardian is nothing..
If the US media is calling her bluff, where is it being broadcast?
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #79
148. Look at at this way....

unless she holds out carrots, even the Left will eventually lose interest and the story falls down the memory hole. Once she tells the entire story it goes into the blog archives and that's it!
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BornagainDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #75
88. You fucking idiot the whole point is to get the US media to print it!
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. Truth is truth...no matter who prints it. Idiocy is measured in a lack of perspective.
If what she has to say is truly earth-shattering, then she has a duty as a US citizen to stand up for the rule of law and report it to the public.

A well-sourced and documented story in the overseas press will filter to the US.

J
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #88
95. it would be unwise for me to echo your sentiments
but...
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BornagainDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #95
193. You couldn't have dedicated your blog to a better person.
:toast:
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #75
143. Hip Hip Hooray!
This Sibel Edmonds thing has been milked long enough.

Get on to business already!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #143
152. And what business is that?
Black market nuclear arms sales, heroin running, spies in the FBI translation unit?
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #152
187. The business of getting the information out, obviously.
It's beginning to look like Sibel just wants attention.

If you've got something to say, for godsakes, say it already! It doesn't have to be Mike Wallace who interviews her.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #187
190. But it can't be something no one pays attention to except activists
Edited on Tue Nov-20-07 04:12 PM by mmonk
or something the general public ignores. Mainstream broadcast is her chosen route and I can't say that I blame her.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
80. The more people speak out about this the safer SE is. KR
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #80
84. You just hit the nail on the head. The abusers stay in power as long as the people stay silent
n/t
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
86. K&R! n/t
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
89. Why not use foreign media?
I see repeated calls here and elsewhere for Sibel to go to the foreign media. I believe what she is trying to convey by not doing that is that this is OUR issue. It is OUR officials/representatives who are corrupt. It is OUR government that is gagging her. It is OUR media that is refusing to get her story out. It is OUR Congress that is refusing to hold hearings. It is OUR courts who have denied her access. The fight is here, in OUR country - we can't, and she can't, pass it off to others - hoping they will somehow fix our problems for us.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. well-put
"The fight is here, in OUR country - we can't, and she can't, pass it off to others" and I agree!
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #89
92. POST OF THE DAY!
:thumbsup:

.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. Thanks to Ellsberg, Brad, & Lukery
Now let's translate this into some concrete action.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #89
94. Exactly - and pushing it off to foreign media shows this nation is in deep trouble
already.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #89
96. Yeah, right. So, she'd rather beat her head against the proverbial brick wall?
If it is a problem of national significance, then she needs to get it out there by any means. Otherwise, this is just a narcissistic exercise and Sisphean task on her part.

If Edmonds is such a great patriot, then why does she persist in withholding information in a vain attempt to "change the system?" If her information is reportedly true, she could do more to "change the system" by just getting the information out there to whoever will print it.

J
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #96
103. What would the penalties be for the most gagged person in US history?
If she is going to tell, she has to make sure people in this country hear it.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Yes!
And I'm all for that. Now let's make it happen.
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #96
104. Better than beating her head on a jail cell wall
Her story has been discussed at length in this blog and others, and yet I think you will agree that no "change to the system" has taken place. What makes you think that her "just getting the information out there" using this and similar alternative media would have any better results? What then would she be giving up her freedom for? She needs the larger audience that only the MSM at this point can give, whether we like it or not.
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. Logical fallacy? Imprisoned regardless of where the information is published.
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 02:12 PM by NoodleyAppendage
Are you suggesting that she would be in less danger of imprisonment if her story is reported state-side?

J
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ajeffersonian Donating Member (100 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #108
114. Where does make a difference
Yes, I am suggesting exactly that. Our government is not going to be concerned by any foreign attention her story may get, but it will pay attention to a story here that has a large audience - national attention that will generate national support for her - the government will then think long and hard about a backlash from coming down hard on her.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #108
118. Definitely harder to explain to a public exposed to what she has to say.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #89
111. How about BBC America...
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 02:16 PM by calipendence
BBC is either now or shortly test marketing their 24 hour news channel in certain markets (including here in San Diego). Perhaps we should call them to talk them into amping up their penetration into other markets too. If they can actually get to a sizable number of cable systems, perhaps that would be the time for someone like Palast to go on their news channels in prime time with an interview with her and promote the hell out of it on various cable and satellite systems. If BBC 24 hour news were to air this and find a way to get Americans to tune in, it might be a MAJOR blow to U.S. MSM credibility. Something they would fully deserve and hopefully kick them in the butt for ratings for a period of time!

I don't know though if now the cable systems, etc. would also be dragging their feet on any efforts BBC might exert to push them in markets more aggressively for the same reasons that the MSM is avoiding covering her too.

If Olberman and others that would otherwise try to do the interview themselves on networks are being kept from doing so, perhaps they can tell viewers themselves to tune into BBC to get the straight story, since he's being kept from doing so, or something like that to steer the MSM audience to them.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. BBC America crossed my mind as well.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #113
115. Promote it when they air a new episode of Torchwood on Saturday night...
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #115
119. Good Idea
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #119
134. What about PBS? Their Cheney's Law was somewhat ballsy -- they might
be willing to air a piece on it....
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #119
146. Better hurry though. I think there are only two new episodes left this season...
And I don't really know of that many more popular shows on BBC currently now.

They do at least two "cutins" on each show that talks about how they made it. Don't know of the politics of those actors, etc. who do the show, but perhaps on one of the final episodes, on the second cutin they all stand in front of the camera and say something like.

"Okay we know you want to get another clip on what we did with one of these final shows. But we're not going to do that today. We want you ALL to go over to BBC News at XX Time and see an interview that you all in America MUST here! We have the fictional secrets of what goes down in the Dr. Who/Torchwood universe and let them out on each show. But we think you'll want to know the REAL secrets that are going on in your country now that your networks don't want to tell you about! Tune IN to Greg Palast tonight on BBC News!"
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #111
132. I put much more faith in BBC before the "America" tag got added to it.
Before BushCo, my cable system carried BBC WORLD NEWS. It was just a BBC broadcast about -- go figure -- WORLD NEWS. But then, this thing called "BBC AMERICA" came along. Sort of around the same time NPR got an Republican BOD. BBC America was developed under Tony The Poodle. I don't bother with them or NPR anymore.

.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #132
149. I understand completely.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
99. she needs to talk to the media somewhere else so our media can
report it as a story that canada broke--so our suckass media can't get hit for national security breaches
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
106. The Edmunds story can never be revealed because it exposes both Dems and Repubs, this does
speak volumes about the US. media across the board. Someone very powerful said NO to ANY media coverage quite obviously.

"Ellsberg seemed hardly surprised that today's American mainstream broadcast media has so far failed to take Edmonds up on her offer"

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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
107. And yet Sources like CNN MSNBC Fox ABC are all trustworthy
links here as DU sources while overseas links are not

I think this is an example of how our media is UNTRUSTWORTHY

and sources from foreign countries should be allowed more leniency

When someone holds a CNN link over a foreign country link
I shake my head
CNN was the biggest supporter of the IRAQ WAR
as well as NYT with Judith Miller

Edmonds said it
Its Pathetic
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
116. Contacts
Contact Us

ADDRESS:
60 Minutes
524 West 57th St.
New York, NY 10019

EMAIL: 60m@cbsnews.com

PHONE: (212) 975-3247


ABC email contacts
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3068843

MSNBC & NBC Contacts
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3303518

BBC America contact page
http://www.bbcamerica.com/contactus.jsp
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. Thank you mmonk!!
Now all we need: get a few thousands to e-mail & dial.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
120. NeoConvicts are cockroaches they loath the spot light the truth shines on them.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
123. All she needs to do is publish it herself online. What's the big deal if she won't do that?
She can obtain a domain anywhere in the world an put the facts up. It's a BE THE MEDIA world.
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
124. I'm NOT advocating this, but I wonder how a strategy like this would work? ....
Simultaneous print and web publication of the entire story in five(5) separate countries at a prearranged time?

Buy publishing the entire story in five(5) different media markets and on the internet simultaneously, it obviously would be next to impossible for the story not to be available to US citizens for a long enough period of time to be copied and spread within the US.

And if the US Govt were to 'censor' the foreign internet coverage of this story, that in itself would demonstrate the control over the internet that the US govt is exerting --comparable to that exercised by China at present.

IIRC, In the case of the Pentagon Papers it was the American public who kept Ellsberg out of jail.
In the Sibel Edmonds case it likely will be the American public who will keep her from being arrested and jailed. But the AMerican public has to learn what she knows before that can happen.

Whoever is advising Sibel has not thought this one through. I have no doubt she will eventually be arrested if she violates the court order.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
130. She needs to forget about the US media whores and take it somewhere else.
We can't help her if we don't know what she's talking about. Just get it out there for Christs sake!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
136. Went to Wikipedia to see what they had: NOTHING!
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You searched for sibel edwards
For more information about searching Wikipedia, see Wikipedia:Searching.

No page with that title exists.



I even tried typing her first name with a different spelling - Siebel -- same result.


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Jackilope Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #136
145. Wiki link for Sibel
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #145
154. Thank you! Jeez - I was typing in EDWARDS - been hanging out on DU to much lately! nt
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #154
164. Ha!
:spray:
GD politics will do that to you.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
138. How about Bill Moyers?
Or is he not mainstream enough? There are a lot of thoughtful, intelligent Americans who watch his show on PBS.

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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #138
139. This is where I think she should go too...
... Moyers has a large following and impeccable credibility. I think he could, and probably would, help a lot.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #138
176. Bill Moyers contact info:
You can use our feedback function (email address: moyersonpbs@thirteen.org ) or send mail to:

Public Affairs Television
450 West 33rd St.
New York, NY 10001

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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #176
186. Thanks mmonk
I'll contact him today.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
150. having been targeted by anthrax will do that
and being owned by bush-friendly executives will too. i'd personally love to see the CBC do this story.
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roxnev Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
151. The MSM is the Repblican party
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PollThis Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
153. Bill Moyers should do a piece on this. nt
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PollThis Donating Member (125 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #153
155. Sorry just noticed the post above. nt
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #155
163. I think it's a good idea.
I'm new to this kind of thing, but I am willing to send Moyers a note with links on this. I assume he is probably already aware of the story.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
156. k&r
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
158. knr for Sibel, always. Someone ought to put Sibel and Valerie in the same room together. nt
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
160. Keep after it!
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
162. so, she should GO TO THE UK and give a presentation
and have it broadcast around the world, exposing them. enough of the traitorous media whores. she gave them a chance.
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graphixtech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
165. now you've gone and done it :)
Congratulations to Brad's Blog and every citizen remotely involved in reporting this!

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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
167. American Democracy is Dead... n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
169. One way to move the story and protect Sibel is IMPEACHMENT . . . .
which --- btw --- we need anyway!!!


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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
170. no 4th estate now, however n/t
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
173. Does Sibel Edmonds have legal representation --- ??? Who --- ???
Obviously, she has to have some documents as evidence that she's holding or someone's holding for her ---

This was obvious with John Dean -- and presume that he's alive because he still has something?

Sibel Edmonds has to protect herself and our futures --
even if only for truth hearings, eventually --

There are a lot of really BIG stories being suppressed ---
that's why it is so urgent and necesary for the GOP to stay in power ---
or to have others who help --- D-Lee Hamilton being one primary "helper" ---

Waxman has the story --- the evironment isn't safe --- and no one has enough power to bring the story forward --

IMPEACHMENT MIGHT GIVE US THE SHIFT WE NEED ---


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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #173
174. She's had these attorneys represent her in the past.
Edited on Mon Nov-19-07 10:57 PM by mmonk
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #174
180. also, Mark Zaid
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #174
183. Maybe she could appeal to the ABA for some ideas? Get some lawyers working pro bono for her?
I think she needs ideas ---

and to develop more help --

evidently she and Plame may be in the same battle?

but I also feel very strongly she needs FIRST to protect her safety --

and if necessary wait it out til 08 . . .

Power has not shifted and as long as we are in Iraq we've got a nut with a tremendous amount of power ---

As I've said --- IMPEACHMENT is probably what will help Sibel the most ---


IMMEDIATE IMPEACHMENT ---




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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
175. I'm kind of surprised that he would say this but if HE does, it probably is! n/t
PB
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-19-07 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
177. K&R. (nt)
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
179. Why is it that she can "go to the media" and release this explosive story...
yet she can't just publish it on the internets?

If it's that explosive it's not going to die just because she didn't sit down with Katie Couric.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #179
184. The story published in an established journal has more "credibility".
Edited on Tue Nov-20-07 03:30 AM by file83
If she publishes it on the internet it doesn't have the same gravity. I also think, in a way, she's proving a point. If the U.S. Main Stream Media has an open offer to listen and publish the unvarnished story she has, yet doesn't express interest in what could be the biggest story in modern American History, then it speaks volumes about corruption of our domestic "Free Press".
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #184
191. sounds like bullshit to me. If it doesn't get published at all...
which apparently is the way this explosive-yet-only-to-be-believed-if-revealed-in-an-interview-with-Katie-Couric information is going.

Honestly, if she's gagged and risks imprisonment either way, then just tell us already. I can see why she wanted to go with the MSM first, but she doesn't have a plan B?

This just makes it all seem like more like fantasy.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
182. Seymour Hersh would tackle it
He exposed Abu Ghraib....why not Sibel's story? I'll make calls to those linked above in the morning.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
185. morning kick
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
188. Just what do we think will happen WHEN Sibel's story comes out? I am
an early, fervent supporter of hers...but the Justice Department, many in congress, the media, and the FBI are already thoroughly familiar with her information and do nothing. Most here know her story. Will airing of her interview, somewhere, be enough to cause congress or the Justice Department to take a giant step into this rabbit hole? We're talking about techtonic plate shifts on this story...

I used to think that a new administration would un-gag her and pursue the criminals and the story back to 9/11, corruption of congress, corruption of FBI...now I'm not so sure that will ever happen because it is indeed explosive to the core and those who are finally in power after 2008 may not be interested in upsetting the apple cart.

What do we expect will happen when some portion of the nation watches Moyers or Olbermann the day Sibel is on? Is it just another moral victory or will something happen?

Having asked that, I need to say I'm for getting her info out yesterday, today, and every day from now on....
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
189. It's a daunting task trying to wake this nation up,
and I'm new here, being a recent awakee myself. I see we have to keep plugging away at it to the end, be it bitter or sweet, likely a mix.

I sent my email to Moyers. Will contact others soon.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
192. the GoP/Media Establishment sitting on stories until after the election -- no way.
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