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Kennedy on IWR: the best vote Ive cast in my 44 years in the United States Senate.

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:40 PM
Original message
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 08:41 PM by WilliamPitt
Kennedy at the National Press Club today:

This Congress cannot escape history or its own duty. If we do not learn from the mistakes of the past, we are condemned to repeat them. We must act, and act now, before the President sends more troops to Iraq, or else it will be too late.

The legislation that we will introduce today is brief but essential. It requires the President to obtain approval from Congress before he sends even more American soldiers to Iraq. And it prohibits the President from spending taxpayer dollars on such an escalation unless Congress approves it.

Our proposal will not diminish our support for the forces we already have in Iraq. We will continue to do everything we can to make sure they have all the support they truly need. Even more important, we will continue to do all we can to bring them safely home. The best immediate way to support our troops is by refusing to inject more and more of them into the cauldron of a civil war that can be resolved only by the people and government of Iraq.

I will seek a Senate vote on this proposal at the earliest realistic date. I hope that instead of escalation without end and without authorization, the President will follow through on his words last week, when he said, We now have the opportunity to build a bipartisan consensus on Iraq. If he truly means those words, he will ask Congress for our approval.

Kennedy today on Iraq and Vietnam:

Listen to this comment from a high-ranking American official: It became clear that if we were prepared to stay the course, we could help to lay the cornerstone for a diverse and independent AsiaIf we faltered, the forces of chaos would scent victory and decades of strife and aggression would stretch endlessly before us. The choice was clear. We would stay the course. And we shall stay the course.

That is not President Bush speaking. It is President Lyndon Johnson, forty years ago, ordering a hundred thousand more American soldiers to Vietnam.

Here is another quotation. The big problem is to get territory and to keep it. You can get it today and it will be gone next week. That is the problem. You have to have enough people to clear itand enough people to preserve what you have done.

That is not President Bush on the need for more forces in Iraq. It is President Johnson in 1966 as he doubled our military presence in Vietnam.

Those comparisons from history resonate painfully in todays debate on Iraq. In Vietnam, the White House grew increasingly obsessed with victory, and increasingly divorced from the will of the people and any rational policy. The Department of Defense kept assuring us that each new escalation in Vietnam would be the last. Instead, each one led only to the next.

At the end of his speech, Kennedy turned to one of his favorite 19th-Century poets, Alfred Lord Tennyson, and the poem Ulysses.

The casualties are high. The war is long. The time is late. But as Tennyson said, Come, my friends. Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

Those words speak clearly to all of us today. And we are inspired anew to wage this battle by the concluding line of that great poem: To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2007/...
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. 
Nice speech, Ted.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Let's hope you don't yield on the Iraq situation as you did on the pension bill.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Harry Reid at work watering down the bill..
already..

musent offend *.. need extra troops to safeguard the pipeline
and protect Big OIl's new deals for pirating Iraqi Oil..
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R_M Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's my Senator!
:dem: :dem: :dem:
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Welcome to DU, R_M!
I can only be envious of your Senators - Alexander and Corker here, but at least I can say no more Frist! :hi:
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R_M Donating Member (425 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. A Tennessean! Such a conservative state, yet you have a very popular
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 08:50 PM by R_M
Democratic Governor, and he's no Zell Miller either.

:hi:-
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. We have to have some of the dumbest senators, don't we?
Sigh.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. I'll make you feel a little better,
McCain and Kyle here :banghead:
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MoseyWalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why hasn't Senator Kennedy been cloned yet
and his clones sent out to every state of the country to run for office?

I hope he lives forever.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. Will...can I ask you about this post from 2004...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


I have read a number of your pieces on truthout etc, and you have criticized the 28 Senate Dems that voted for the IWR...and implicit in this post is oppostion to the IWR on your part...yet in the above mentioned post you appear to be defending John Kerry's vote on the IWR...and endorsing it yourself...

Is this true?


Particularly in these passages



The 'Yes' vote on the IWR essential to the establishment of effective weapons inspections. Only the threat of force made the previous inspections effective. I asked Scott Ritter personally if his seven years in Iraq as an inspector would have been effective without the threat of force. He said the inspections would have been useless without the threat.





The threat of force got rid of the weapons from 1991-1998. The threat of force was needed to get rid of whatever he might have developed since. As Ritter said in my book, no one was absolutely sure they hadn't retained any of their weapons capabilities.





If you were in favor of weapons inspectors, YOU WERE IN FAVOR OF THE THREAT OF FORCE TO BACK THE INSPECTORS. There is no separating the two. Period.



Then the following responses...

#4 in that thread


Any President - even Mr. Gore - would likely have looked hard at Iraq post-9/11 because of that nation's history of WMD development. Gore would have gotten inspectors into the game, and would have asked for a threat of force to back the inspectors up.

The difference is the handling of that power, not the delivery of it.



#10 in that thread


Just because he let them in

doesn't mean he wasn't going to fuck with them. He was no angel, and the whole history of inspectons was him fucking with them until we blew his shit up.




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MoseyWalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Sorry, I'm not Will, but
what?

Times change, and thankfully people do also.

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with what you posted. I just question the significance related to current events.

peace.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I just find it a little odd...
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 08:53 PM by SaveElmer
That in 2004...two years after the IWR he was defending it, and then 1 year later criticizing those that voted for it even in 2002....seems incongruous.

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HughSeries Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Wow
I hope someday someone gets so obsessed with ME that they archive my posts for 3 years to spring something like that on me. I will have MADE IT then.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Interesting...
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 09:04 PM by SaveElmer
He has made it!

Will Pitt is a prominent progressive...editorial director of the PDA, frequent contributor to Truthout...and author...he deserves the plaudits he gets...

However...he has criticized those that voted for the IWR in 2002, yet appeared to endorse their action in 2004...

I would like to know what changed his mind between 2004 when he posted his opinions and 2005 when he published this article for Truthout...or am I misinterpreting his 2004 comments?

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/110305I.shtml



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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. You said it " Will Pitt is a prominent progressive."
Truth changes... beliefs don't... God I love this place.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Could you expand on that?
Thanks...
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. No , my good friend
But you will... :hug:
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. dupe
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 09:28 PM by bonito
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. I think the IWR vote would have been essentially benign
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 09:58 PM by WilliamPitt
had Bush not been in office. It is true that dealing with that regime required a big stick to weild, all the way back to Clinton. All those bombs Clinton dropped were done to force the continuation of the UNSCOM inspections. Look at this last war; Hussen all but surrendered beforehand, because the threat was enough.

The IWR opened the door for inspections under threat. Had the inspections been allowed to be completed unmolested, the cause for war would have evaporated...and the inspections were only going to be allowed under threat, which was provided by the IWR.

My opinion on this is based, in no small part, on my conversations with Scott Ritter. Go back and read my book; he lays it all out, and has repeated same oftentimes.

And yes, the Senators should have known better.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thanks for replying...
You posted this in 2004...2 years after the IWR, and well into the Iraq war...

Were you projecting back, in essence defending what Kerry did at the time...justifying it based on the information he had when he cast that vote? Or were you still defending it as the correct course of action?

Given that virtually every Senator that opposed the IWR commented on the threat Saddam posed in terms of WMD's, on what basis should they have known better? It seems even opponents were convinced that the intelligence was correct?

I understand Scott Ritter was saying that the Iraqi WMD capability had been degraded to the point where it no longer was a threat to us...and obviously he turned out to be right...

Should Ritter's claims have been more convincing than the CIA's at the time? Was it simply that the 28 Senators underestimated how Bush would abuse the authority the IWR gave him? Do you think Bush would have let the defeat of the IWR stop him in his plans given that he believed his position as commander in chief gave him the authority he needed? And do you think those 28 Senators were voting in bad faith...simply playing CYA?
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WiseButAngrySara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Beautiful! "Tis not too late to seek a newere world" Thanks
for posting this. Kennedy is a treasure.
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. "What's Wrong With An Up Or Down Vote"
On Bush Adding More Troops To The Battle Of Exxon...err I mean Baghdad?

Hell...What's wrong with letting the people vote on Bush's adding more human fuel to the civil war in Iraq?
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. 
Edited on Tue Jan-09-07 08:56 PM by antigop
Where does it say that in the link?
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pettypace Donating Member (695 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. He's repeated this on a few occasions
Here's the latest:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,237021,00.html

KENNEDY: Well, first of all, I was opposed to the war. It was the best vote that I ever had in the United States Senate.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/20/lkl.01.h...

This is where I heard him say it the first time on Larry King:

KING: You called Iraq the overriding issue. You voted to go there or not?

KENNEDY: No. The best vote I cast in the United States Senate was...

KING: The best?

KENNEDY: The best vote, best vote I cast in the United States Senate (INAUDIBLE).

KING: In your life?

KENNEDY: Absolutely.

KING: Was not to go to Iraq?

KENNEDY: Yes, not to go to Iraq.


One more time:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/6/3/121646.shtm...
Kennedy reflected on his opposition in October 2002 to a congressional resolution authorizing military action in Iraq.


"My vote against this misbegotten war is the best vote I have cast in the United States Senate since I was elected in 1962," Kennedy said.




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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Thanks -- I know he has said that
But I thought the original post indicated the quote was in the posted link.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. Too bad Senator Kerry didn't pay more attention to the senior senator from Massachusetts.
Maybe he would be President Kerry today. I couldn't have hurt. Then he could have been against the war all along. Of course the cynical would say that since Kennedy was not up for reelection, his vote was no risk. This is also why he didn't have his finger to the wind.
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HughSeries Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. In retrospect it was his best
but those who voted for the Iraq War Resolution COULD HAVE made that vote in good faith, that GWB would honor the restrictions and not fudge intelligence. I mean, *I* knew the intelligence was bunk, but I cannot hold even our elected representatives to my personal intellectual standards.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Kennedy didn't know it was bunk...
His vote was not based on his view that the intelligence had been falsified...

Here is a portion of his floor statement on the IWR...


I commend President Bush for taking his case against Iraq to the American peopleand I agree with the President that Saddam is a despicable tyrant who must be disarmed. -Ted Kennedy




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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. The lion roars once again.

we are fortunate to have him.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh yeah baby
Did it become the 60's again? Is that why suburbian professionals and retired people are out in the streets protesting? In Virginia, for christsake!

When did this happen? Oh yes, this past election. And all the effort we made to put Democrats in. Now that energy won't give up until we have our peace. Our peace is our quest. So we keep on moving and we will till we have our peace. We will put every positive effort into this to keep our legislators on the path. We won't forget, they won't forget. We will lawfully get it done. I truly believe that.

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. But it has to pass -- look at what the link says
>>
Kennedys legislation has critics even among Senate Democrats and the chances that it will get a majority vote in the Senate arent good.
>>
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. Wow. Bobby Kennedy used to often quote from the classics -
Kennedy's speech on the death of Dr. Martin Luther King has a beautiful quote from Aeschylus -

I have some very sad news for all of you, and I think sad news for all of our fellow citizens, and people who love peace all over the world, and that is that Martin Luther King was shot and was killed tonight in Memphis, Tennessee.

Martin Luther King dedicated his life to love and to justice between fellow human beings. He died in the cause of that effort. In this difficult day, in this difficult time for the United States, it's perhaps well to ask what kind of a nation we are and what direction we want to move in.

For those of you who are black - considering the evidence evidently is that there were white people who were responsible - you can be filled with bitterness, and with hatred, and a desire for revenge.

We can move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization - black people amongst blacks, and white amongst whites, filled with hatred toward one another. Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion and love.

For those of you who are black and are tempted to be filled with hatred and mistrust of the injustice of such an act, against all white people, I would only say that I can also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man.

But we have to make an effort in the United States, we have to make an effort to understand, to get beyond these rather difficult times.

My favorite poet was Aeschylus. He once wrote: "Even in our sleep, pain which cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom through the awful grace of God."

http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/rfk.htm
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. Hey, Chimpy's plenty smart, too! He can quote Virgil:
Bush Regales Dinner Guests With Impromptu Oratory On Virgil's Minor Works

WASHINGTON, DCPresident Bush delighted an intimate gathering of White House dinner guests Monday, regaling the coterie of dignitaries, artists, and friends with a spirited, off-the-cuff discussion of the Roman poet Virgil's lesser-known works.

"Ah, W. was in top form tonight," Spanish foreign minister Josep Pique Camps said. "We were all held captive by his erudition and charm. First, a brief history of the opium trade, then a bit of Brahms on the piano, then a rousing discussion of Virgil. That boy is a wonder, isn't he?"

<snip>

Bush then recited a selection from The Bucolics in the original Latin, pausing occasionally to translate into French out of respect for his friend Amlie du Maurier, a young Parisian concert violinist in attendance. Earlier in the evening, a blushing du Maurier admitted to Bush that she did not know Latin. Bush eased the young woman's embarrassment with a joke.

"I wouldn't be surprised if your father forbade you from learning Latin, out of sheer distaste for res publica," said Bush, alluding to du Maurier's ancestors' place in the ousted French aristocracy


http://www.theonion.com/content/node/31077
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thank you Senator Kennedy
And anyone else who had the judgement and/or courage to vote against this war. As for the rest of you--this is a black mark on your record, You may be able to overcome it eventually but i is a black mark nonetheless.
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bananarepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #22
38. I want Edward Kennedy to go on forever! I hope he's a cancerous reminder...
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 02:33 AM by bananarepublican
... to the f-wits (and their fascist-like descendents) behind the murder of his brothers (and MLK, and Malcolm X to boot!).

Teddy knows there would have been no 'Vietnam War' (read war profiteering) had JFK lived.

At the end of the day, my hope is that the forces of light (represented by the Kennedy clan) overcome and extinguish the forces of darkness.




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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. He brilliantly nailed it by inciting failed history.
History we are already repeating.

Our government is lying to us. They do not have our interests in mind. We are not "the corporations".

What a man. I love Senator Kennedy. He's fighting for us. With us. Against an evil that resides inside our own walls.

We couldn't keep Iraq if we "got" it. So true.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kennedy to Deny Bush his troops for Escalation! Wants Votes Counted.
Ted Kennedy: The American people sent a clear message in November that we must change course in Iraq and begin to withdraw our troops, not escalate their presence.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002307.php
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
28. I appreciate Senator Kennedy so much.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-09-07 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
33. A lion whose roar
still resonates. Dear ol Ted, we're behind you.
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. I hope you know how lucky you are...
Edited on Wed Jan-10-07 01:06 AM by VelmaD
I truly envy you your Senators...particularly Kennedy. My Senators aren't worthy to hold his jockstrap. *sigh*

On edit: WOOHOO! Not blocked yet. ;)
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
36. It probably was.
And all those that voted 'no' on the IWR will be remembered for their clear vision and bravery.
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Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. Kennedy is One of the All-Time Great Speakers
This was one of the greatest speeches I have ever heard Kennedy give. I heard it live at 1 PM on Tuesday, then taped it when C-SPAN replayed it Tuesday night. There is almost nobody better than a fired-up Ted Kennedy, and this was classic. All the great explanations of what Democrats are when they are at their greatest, all the strong, uncompromising challenges to Bush and Republicans--and criticizing Republicans as Republicans, not afraid to name their guilty Party. Kennedy has such an encyclopedic knowledge, that you get issue after issue clearly described, with real conscience about what is wrong and what needs to be done, and all the great literary and historical references. No wonder the Kennedys always made high intelligence glamorous. This was a speech to study: fiery and exciting, very informative, with warmth and humor, a deep and very long span of history, and a clear understanding of complex situations. Thank God for Ted Kennedy; what a National treasure.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
41. Are the Republicans still the majority party? Then why does Bush act like it is?
They need to pull that little dictator out of his chair and impeach his ass!!!

Bush acts like he doesn't need Congressional approval.
Bush acts like he doesn't need approval from the majority of Americans.
Bush acts like the United Nations is irrelevant.

Bush is the only one who still thinks it was a good idea to invade Iraq.
So, let him go live there!!
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. Best Opening Sentence In Decades:'This Congress cannot escape history or its own duty
Bless Ted Kennedy
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puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
43. K&R Inspiring, hopeful! "'Tis not too late...." nt
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
44. Great speech
I watched him early this morning on CSpan.
Thanks
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-10-07 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
46. He was brilliant and for those who haven't seen it, go to cspan.org. It's right on the first page.
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