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Olbermann & Madsen are talking -- KO may change his tune.

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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:18 AM
Original message
Olbermann & Madsen are talking -- KO may change his tune.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 06:46 AM by jamboi
Just think how much more rapidly this whole thing can unfold with major media resources. Let's watch and see how it goes. If KO changes his tune I think many of us will be inspired to help with researching this. Personally I think there is enough there already to make it worth researching to get to the bottom of whatever really happened.

Here's Madsen's second article again:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112604Madsen/112604madsen.html

and the first one:
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html

Remember you heard it here first.

JamBoi
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. Any idea
when they started talking? How'd you find out?
This is good news. Thank you!
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I understand they connected today. n/t
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
58. Okay, the question needs to be asked...
What's your connection to each of them?

NGU.


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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. I recommended to each that they connect. n/t
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
105. Did you get feedback from either of them?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #105
129. Yes, some encouraging feedback, that's why I posted this. n/t
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
138. ME TOO!
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GoBlue Donating Member (930 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. My head is spinning from the Madsen articles
What a tangled web we weave?
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Hobbes199 Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I know, it's all soo Mel Gibson.
The only thing really standing out for me, is the FBI/Homeland Security link, as being a logical cover to meet the excuse in OH.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yeah, it reads like a brain dump doesn't it. We should get more of the
in between details as time goes on and that will make the narrative flow better. Right now its very choppy.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. Daily Kos entry on Madsen story.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Madsen didn't really add much in his 2nd story. n/t
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rosyhue Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. he added a check with a serial number
as well as the name of the bank the check was drawn on and the bank number. He tells us who supposently sent the check and who it was addressed to.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. i still do not trust this story
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't either, I keep thinking
That it's a Rove deal ala Dan Rather.
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rosyhue Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I'm new and have a question for you
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 09:06 AM by rosyhue
regarding misinformation. Prior to posting here I didn't know much about Rove's tactics. I understand a few people here think this story may have been fed to Madsen via ill-meaning "sources." (My hunch is that's not the case but I could be wrong)

Here's my question: would Madsen, who appears to be a decent investigative reporter with impressive credentials....fall for a fake story? He's written about the current admin's dirty tricks; it's not as though he's niave. Thoughts?
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Dan Rather was a decent investigative reporter with impressive credentials
so I would see the possibility that Madsen could fall for a fake story. Rove has taken in/down bigger people.
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Chimpanzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. The fact that he's getting his information from Houston
is a bit concerning.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. What concerns you about the Houston connection?
I don't understand?
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Chimpanzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
137. The Oil Bidness, BFEE, etc.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
67. the fact that he has years of time investigating from a government
level makes him vastly different than Dan Rather. You Doubting Thomases need to get over it or move on.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Reply to Rosy
You asked:

Here's my question: would Madsen, who appears to be a decent investigative reporter with impressive credentials....fall for a fake story? He's written about the current admin's dirty tricks; it's not as though he's niave. Thoughts?

My thought is if Rather fell for the trap, why not Madsen who hasn't had the years of experience that Rather had as an investigative journalist.

Madsen has also been wrong in the past.

He claimed that we would be attacking Iran in October. I also remember how he tried to debunk Bush's arrival time a few days over a year ago, in Iraq for Thanksgiving. He gave this whole diatribe in an article "Wag The Turkey", and it turned out that the differential had to do with time zones.
Another thing that gets my antennae up about him is that he did work for Reagan in the NSA.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
23. Do you know why we didn't attack Iran in October, because of
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 11:07 AM by merh
stories like Madsen's (he wasn't alone) and because of the election polls that showed that the war in Iraq was one of the shrubs weak points. His approval rating sucked and the war in Iraq was one reason. He couldn't afford to attack prior to the election, but it was in the works, you can tell by the media spin.

Go back and look at the media spin for August, Sept & Oct and see how Iran was the bad guy, they helped Al Qaeda, they are building nukes, et cetera. Then look at the news releases that Iran put out and how they were trying to work to resolve difficulties, willing to discuss nuclear program, did not help AQ. Iran knew we were on the verge of attacking them and wanted the rest of the world to know they did not deserve our wrath.

Madsen was correct and his reporting the admins plan saved us in October, maybe they will do the same in December.

I would say the wag the turkey story has helped him appreciate the need to check and double check his information. He was correct about it being a photo op - the use of ceremonial plastic turkeys is proof of that.

There are those who believe that the BFEE tried to assasinate St. Raygun. The two families did not like each other and maybe his contempt for the weed and his fellow weeds stems from that and fosters the desire to take the evil family down.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
41. Bush did not attack Fallujah until after the election,
and wouldn't have attacked Iran prior earlier, for the same reasons. An escalated body count wouldn't have helped him "win" the election.

I have no doubt that there are plans to attack both Iran and Syria. They are laid out as the next stops in Rebuilding America's Defenses. It's all in the timing though, and I believe Madsen got it wrong.

I want to believe that his article reveals the smoking gun, with all of my heart, but until he tightens it up, sources it, I can't accept it as gospel.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Go back and research the news sources as suggested
or even the threads here - they were planning on attacking Iran in October. The polls and Fallujah (the deteriorating conditions in Iraq) made them hold off. Madsen wasn't wrong.
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Woo Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
93. Yeah, after I think about it...
Maybe not a week ago Gen Wes Clark(a man that many here like and admire, he got my primary vote) said something curious -- when the person asked him how to win in Iraq. He said, we can't win Iraq as long as we're concentrating on Iran and Syria. Maybe I haven't paid much attention to the news surrounding Iran and Syria... I thought surely we were focused on handling Iraq and getting everything good over there, yeah I'm a sucker -- so now that I think about it we most likely already had a war plan for Iran, then Iran backed away from their Nuclear program suddenly which bought them some time, maybe -- Sweet Jesus...


Yes, what Madsen says is very plausible.
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
48. Iran
Iran attack may still be in the works though. Save in for '08? or even 06?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. Next year if the weed is crowned for another 4!
They have their plans - they will invade and then have a reason for the draft. :cry: They are already moving tanks out of south korea and shifting the troops as I type.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #15
68. yo, doubters, I know Marines who were put on alert to go to Iran
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 01:52 PM by NVMojo
but have since been re-routed to Iraq. Go figure that one out in your little freeping corners, then flip flop and come back when you get it.
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
83. but Rather's story was no fake, a point too many people forget
so I'm happy to let Madsen's story cook.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #83
108. You Hit The Nail On the Head, Ducks!
See how the Republican owned-and operated media's brainwashed even the most cynical Dem/Liberal/Progressive?

See how successful the RW attack machine can make even their opponents forget that the story Dan Rather was reporting on, was not whether or not the memos were faked, but whether Dubya got special treatment through high connections in order to avoid service in Nam, while a decorated Viet Nam war hero's purple hearts and valor were being trashed by vindictive partisan repukes with barely any talking head challenging them--except for Lawrence O'Donnell, whom I haven't seen on MSNBC since he called John O'Neill for the liar that he is on Scarborough Country, with Nixon man, Pat Buchanan filling in for Joe.

It just boggles the mind...
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #108
144. Dan's story was TRUE. The secretary affirmed the information in the memos
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #83
119. Cook Madsen's Story


Dan Rather did not lie and Madsen's probabl y got a lot of truth in his report.

It doesn't matter to Rove. He can make the Media believe that fat meat ain't greasy.

So I say, go on with all of the"compelling" stories and just keep on digging.

We are not reporters so we can say a lot of compelling stuff.
They have already started calling us crazy bloggers. So what!
We now have their attention, so let's keep roling.

Keep um coming!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
36. he has fallen for stuff before..check his story before election! n/t
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 11:52 AM by flyarm
he did a story about bush starting the war in iran and all the details supposedly going to happen before the election...totally wrong!


October 20, 2004
Lebanonwire



A Bush pre-election strike on Iran 'imminent'
White House insider report "October Surprise" imminent

By Wayne Madsen

According to White House and Washington Beltway insiders, the Bush administration, worried that it could lose the presidential election to Senator John F. Kerry, has initiated plans to launch a military strike on Iran's top Islamic leadership, its nuclear reactor at Bushehr on the Persian Gulf, and key nuclear targets throughout the country, including the main underground research site at Natanz in central Iran and another in Isfahan. Targets of the planned U.S. attack reportedly include mosques in Tehran, Qom, and Isfahan known by the U.S. to headquarter Iran's top mullahs.

look to online journal archives for this story!!
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Here's a creepy article about Bush's plans to invade Iran
Other articles have said Bush plans to invade Iran as well--here is one of them:

http://nuclearfree.lynx.co.nz/invadeiran.htm

I think Madsen was just citing other people and not making a personal prediction. Anyways, you can email him about it. I posted his email on this thread below

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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
87. it was speculation, not prophesy
and the story is also about the intelligence leak of the plan.

and we are all trying to guess the october surprise.

anyways bush is still planning to attack iran. just now it's after the election.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
62. why, cuz you didn't personally get the check?
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yes, he did - as was already posted here on Friday ...
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 09:25 AM by djmaddox1
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rosyhue Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. yes, the check was mentioned on Friday
but I was responding to someone who said nothing new had been mentioned in the second article. I didn't mean to be rude or disruptive. As for looking into the threads I've posted on...I'm not the only person here who has perused several topics; just trying to learn & apologize for any inconvenience. I won't be posting here again. Best of luck with this story & hope it turns out to be valid.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. No one said you were rude or disruptive ...
I'm the person you said you were responding to "nothing new had been mentioned in the second article". I was just explaining why I said that, didn't mean to offend or hurt your 'feelers'!:P My reply @ nothing new pertained to this being already posted (repeatedly). It gets frustrating when you are led to think there has been a 'break' only to find out it's 2 days old. That wasn't directed at you as much as the OP. Stick around, nobody bites here (err, not often, not hard?)!
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #17
27. If you don't like a thread then stay out. If you want it to go away
allow it to die a natural death. That is the neat thing about these forums, if you read the original post and it is nothing that interests you or nothin new, you can go find another thread to read. You are not required or obligated to post a reply, actually, it is preferred that you don't bother to post and make the OP feel bad just to make yourself feel better.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. That is the neat thing about these forums, everyone can post.
You are not required or obligated to post a reply, actually, it is preferred that you don't bother to post. Is there a problem? You be sure to let me know when you decide I can post, dear!

BTW - I don't see alot of difference between you inserting your opinion from me inserting mine?!
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. There is a difference, I am for letting the information flow
you are for stopping it. Your posts here are negative, my post was just a suggestion, as it seems to bother you that nothing new is in the OP. I don't like it when folks try to stifle posts, it makes be wonder what in the posts disturb them. :shrug: I am not telling you what to do, I just suggested that if you don't like the thread then go on to another one.
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ebayfool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
46. How is this called stopping the flow of information?
"Madsen didn't really add much in his 2nd story."

"...I was expecting something new."

"I just wonder if it's wise to keep popping new threads about the same subject."

"People have a hard enough time keeping track of subjects without everybody deciding to rehash same info on multiple new threads."

"I was just explaining why I said that, didn't mean to offend or hurt your 'feelers'!:P"

"It gets frustrating when you are led to think there has been a 'break' only to find out it's 2 days old."
-------------------------------------------------

On the other hand - this does sound like stifling:

"it is preferred that you don't bother to post ..."

"I don't like it when folks try to stifle posts, it makes be wonder what in the posts disturb them."

"If you don't like a thread then stay out."

BTW - "make the OP feel bad just to make yourself feel better"?
I haven't seen one word from OP @ me making him feel bad, & I do believe I saw you say something in one of the forums @ having a thick skin to come here? I DID try to explain to another person that responded to my post @ why I said that & to reassure him/her that they should "Stick around, nobody bites here (err, not often, not hard?)!". This is hardly as negative as what you have thrown out here! As far as "I am not telling you what to do, I just suggested that if you don't like the thread then go on to another one." I already had voiced my opinion & moved on, YOU are the one that keeps drawing me back. It makes me wonder why you are so compelled to pound on a rather mild statement & blow it into something else? OK, enough said @ it. I feel I behaved in a constructive & nonthreatening fashion, we will have to just agree to disagree? Peace.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
60. Yeah, I know, I think about that too. But some of those thread had gotten
so very long I didn't think they were that useful. Also you've got multiple brains at work here and for example there is another thread this morning on Madsen that I didn't start or know about. Its inconvenient and "messy" for sure, and not the way I'd prefer but I think its just a function of the story being soooo big that people get excited about it and start posting away. I only started two of the threads myself and one of them was intended to be a serious "working" type thread. I guess that's life.
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. the payee was an entity
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 09:49 AM by KaliTracy
not a person.

not that it makes it invalid -- just an observation.

Personally I think the Warren County situation is just something they (Warren County) dreamed up -- it's not like it's an urban center or anything -- it's got a lot of cows, though.

Warren County:
they had 20,000 more votes for Bush than in 2000 and

7,000 more votes for the Kerry than for Gore

2004 results http://www.co.warren.oh.us/bdelec/voting_results_publish_dynamic.htm

2000 results http://www.co.warren.oh.us/bdelec/archive/general_11-00.htm

What I find interesting is that though more independents ran in 2000 the Democratic percentage went down (2000 -- %27.71 Dem votes) (2004 -- %27.58 votes) while Bush's went up 2.11% -- The independent voters in 2000 cast 1618 votes. The independent votes in 2004 cast 337 votes... unless I'm missing votes somewhere, which could be very likely...

tracy
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lthuedk Donating Member (551 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. Was the check itself genuine, and not a forgery?
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. Madsen emailed me today..here's what he said
"Okay.. they need to concentrate on rigging and closed off/secured vote counting sites in Texas, Ohio, California, and Florida. Any irregularities concerning techies, especially Diebold, should be reported (to me or Joan's network). The Democrats are aware of more details of this story but for me, as a jorno, I can't yet name names because I have to gather more evidence and make this story libel proof. The national vote padding for Bush (the 3 million margin) happened primarily in Texas, Florida, and California.

thanks

wayne madsen"
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I think it happened in more places in those states, though. NC for one.
And even SC which went heavily for Bush with electronic machines...but no one would think to look there because SC is considered the safest of Repug territories, yet it has a large minority population.

But, if those are the states Madsen thinks there's better evidence to be found to prove fraud then he probably knows something that should be checked out in those states. :shrug:
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
82. Also that was before he talked to Madsen. We'll see what he says now. n/t
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
141. NC: Gaston county: Diebold employees
I'll tell Madsen: marsha hammond, phd

Here it is from my e files:

(Not to mention that GA uses lots of Diebold employees re: vote counting)



Anyone living in Gaston County should be mad.
>Also, recent news article indicates that even the NCBOE thinks maybe
>the 2000 results in Gaston are questionable.
>
>We can't give these people a free pass.
>
>The county pays a technician from Diebold to operate its systems on
>Election Day. That person was in charge of transferring early votes
>from electronic storage to the counting computer. Diebold believes
>the transmission was interrupted, said spokesman David Bear. Story
>Archive
>http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp?
>sort=date&selectstate=NC&selectproblemtype=Machine+malfunction
>
>If you want to help heat up the media interest in GASTON county,
>send a copy of this "public information request" to various media
>outlets.
>
>Tell the reporter (via email or phone) that getting the answers to
>the questions in that request will make a HUGE STORY.
>
>The Charlotte Observer is covering this pretty well, but send it to
>your local papers too. I sent it to the North Carolina AP desk on
>Nov 15th.
>
>The Public Information Request that you should send is at this link:
>http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?
>az=show_thread&om=1&forum=DCForumID1490&omm=2&viewmode=threaded
>or if that link appears broken in this message, use this one:
>http://tinyurl.com/5z8ym
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Doremus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. There was a story about a poll worker who resigned...
I wish my memory was better. I recall reading something about an employee who resigned - can't remember if he worked for the machine company or the elections board -- shortly before or after the election.

The guy quit in protest of one of his bosses taking the central tabulator home with him or having some access that isn't supposed to be permitted. I think this was the weekend before the election, but again my memory is horrible. I've checked my bookmarks but I can't find it.

Anyone remember that?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. I remember that, let me see if I can find the thread that discussed
it. If I do, I will post it in this thread for you.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. Link to resignation story
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WhoWantsToBeOccupied Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #26
133. Here's another one
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #19
30. The Democrats are aware of more details of this story ?!?!
Am I hallucinating or does this sentence from Madsen's email *mean something*?

:eyes:

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. I just read in another thread that Jesse Jackson responded to
a media question regarding why Kerry was not involved is that Kerry was told one thing on election night and now he and the dems have learned that there are problems with the election and we will probably be hearing more from him. Google Jesse Jackson and the protests today in Ohio and you might be able to find his actual statement.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #38
50. Here's the story link and the quote:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/200...
<snip>
When asked why it was him, not the Democratic presidential candidate, who is demanding an investigation and recount, Jackson implied that Sen. John Kerry could become more vocal soon about an investigation on the Ohio vote or a statewide recount.

"Kerry was inclined to believe what he was told, and he was told the election was over," Jackson told a group of reporters in a conference call Saturday afternoon. "But now we're unearthing information that did not surface at first. I suppose the more information Kerry gets, the more you will hear from him."

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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Thank you for providing the comment and the link!
I just love the sharing of information and how readily DUers are willing to offer help. :yourock:
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #50
66. I wonder who the idiot was who told Kerry "it was over."
It sure as hell wasn't anyone here at DU.

It sure as hell wasn't John Edwards.
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SueZhope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #66
100. The media
The media decided it was over and ...look at Fox news...
calling it for Bush. All of them helped create that feeling of" its over"....
they still are.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #66
109. Probably the same person...
...who advised him not to immediately attack the Swiftboat liars?

I believe it was Bob Shrum who held Kerry back from taking out the Swiftboat Liars, which made Kerry react too slowly.

But it could be Mary Beth Cahill too.

At least we have a possible reason why Kerry conceded so quickly, and although unsubstantiated, we have yet another theory, given by Jesse Jackson, about why JFK so puzzling quick, stepped out onto the stage to concede Nov 3rd.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #109
134. I remember a story saying it was Cahill
And that she was in his dog house when she turned out to be wrong and the story didn't go away and his numbers went down.

He should really go with his gut most days.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #109
139. Cahill advised Kerry not to retaliate against SBL. What a dunderhead.
Always fight back, immediately and with everything you've got, blast them! So much for professionals on the team, eh?

Shrum is the one who advised against Kerry making his investigation and prosecution of BCCI a part of his campaign. Shrum said, believe it or not, that he thought people would confuse BCCI and BBC.

I could kick Shrum's a** from here to the other side of hell for giving Kerry such horrid advice.

BCCI was a cornerstone in Kerry's history and proved his brilliance at investigating and prosecuting the criminal element, especially that element involved in drugs and terrorism, and that was before fighting terrorism was "cool."
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Ugnmoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #30
45. This is a huge revelation!
It probably means that the Dems are involved in this investigation. If so, it would possibly explain the great silence from the Kerry Campaign. They may be building their case to blow the whole thing wide open. I think the reason Madsen got a hold of it is because of some of his very tight connections inside the Intelligence community. Anyway, as I have previously posted, I think the next two weeks are the critical period. If this is going to blow, it will happen then. I think Madsen's revelations are the smoke, the question is will we see the fire?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. as i have posted elsewhere...on kerry
kerry is a brilliant man...with kerry we are not dealing with a dumb bush type...but kerry knows more than anyone who evil and devious these bush thugs are..remember ..he was an attorney general and a prosecutor...he knows what hes doing...and remember he was the guy who exposed the bcci world bank crimes..and iran contra ...he along with his brother who is also an attorney , and edwards...who is one of the best attorneys in the country...they know you dont show your cards till you have the whole thing in the bag...
look at what has surfaced so far..and think about it folks..everyone including bev have all said the same statement..." we have no intentions on over turning the results of the election"..something like that..they all have said the same thing..its a talking point..they have all been consistant in saying that...
this may be the first time in my life i have seen the dem party so silent...all of them...and when they do speak they all say the same thing..verbatim...
i have said this before..if they have the goods we will know about it soon..if they dont we will never hear a thing...but you dont have 17,000 lawyers all over ohio for nothing...

and the video by kerry was pivitol..he was sending a message..to his supporters...but it was one you needed to read between the lines..he prob couldnt stand people being so angry at him..but the controlers of this sting or whatever you want to call it..want him to stay out of the fray...he has to be presidential...he has to be..because if this blows like i believe it will..he has to be able to get the country to rally around him and to not leave this nation vunerable to outside forces and nations...kerry must stay out of the fray of any of this...and above it...but it must be proven without a shadow of a doubt...there can be no strings un attached,..kerry knows how dangerous these bush thugs are..he has delt with them in the bcci, and iran contra..he knows their m.o...he also knows roves m.o.
the whole dan rather thing was set up by rove..i assure you ...and it wasnt about that story...it had nothing to do with the =awol story..it was a deflection..away from the real story that was about to be shown by 60 minutes..about the secondary document done by the 9/11 commission that named names of the people in this administration who failed and who had ties with the saudis involved with giving money and support to those involved in 9/11...well rove succeeded in shutting that story down..by using rather to destroy cbs..and to make cbs shelve that story before the election..it worked...thats what the whole dan rather thing was about..it was about shutting down cbs from showing their story on the secondary report from the 9/11 commission..and the intelligence report that has still not been released and it has been ready to go since june..cleared and all!!..and it names names!!
kerry knows all this...kerry knows the depth of the evil in this administration...and if there is a there there...we will know it when they have dotted every i and crossed every t!!..and it wont be before the certification of ohio votes..or just right before! and if they dont have the good s we wont know until they do!! kerry is not a sloppy man like bush...our expectations have all come down so many notches with bush...kerry is no bush..kerry is a brilliant man..he is a methotical man...hes a lawyer..he thinks like a lawyer...lawyers know to keep ones mouth shut..get the goods, make sure there are no holes and then pounce...but they are methotical about keeping the story quiet until the story is nailed...i assure you this did not all beginibeing looked at on nov 2..this was planned to precison...with no chance to blow it...remember above all else kerry is a fighter...hes just a damn smart fighter!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #59
77. I am starting to fantasize about President Kerry's Fireside Chats...
He and we are going to have an incredibly hard 4 years ahead of us no matter what happens -- but it will be infinitely better with him at the helm. He has to bring down a team of crooks that have been getting away with murder (literally) for years. He has to get us through the economic drop that is coming (thanks to * playing emperor with his military all over the world). He has to win back the media - we can't take another term with the media behaving toward him as it did toward Clinton.

Pray... if you are into that...

:hug:

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Farmgirl Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. Hi, I know this now has its own thread....
Here's a question I have...who is Joan and what is Joan's network? Is she working with Madsen, is she another jorno?
:kick:
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
63. I wondered about that too. Does anyone know? n/t
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #63
86. Might be our Hedda-foil?
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
146. She's NOT working with Madsen
At all. She's got her hands quite full with the recount efforts in Ohio and NH -- she's co-founder of the National Ballot Integrity Project and Help America Recount:

www.helpamericarecount.org

www.ballotintegrity.org/
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
44. Florida resident here
I don't think there is any way Bush could have won FL except for fraud. People here were still so pissed about 2000 there is no way he could have overcome that.

I didn't happen. Bush could not have won FL. No way.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #44
64. I AM ALSO FROM FLA! AND YOU ARE RIGHT!!
I WAS A FLA DELEGATE TO THE CONVENTION , AND A POLL WATCHER AT LARGE, AND I CAN TELL YOU WITH MY OWN EYES AND EXPERIENCES THIS PAST YEAR AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CAME OUT TO WORK AND MOST HAVING NEVER DONE ANY THING PREVIOUS POLITICALLY I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE HOW IT WAS HERE...AND NO WAY COULD BUSH HAVE WON MY COUNTY..NO WAY NO HOW!! AND I WILL SAY THAT UNTIL MY LAST BREATHING MOMENT!! IWAS OUT NIGHTLY GIVING SPEACHES FOR KERRY AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN SO MANY WANTING BUSH OUT AND KERRY IN..AND THE CURIOUSITY ABOUT KERRY AND THE RALLYS...IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE HERE FOR KERRY..PEOPLE WERE SO ENGAGED IN KERRYS CAMPAIGN...WE HAD THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS...IN EVERY ASPECT OF THE CAMPAIGN...LIKE I SAID ..I AM 53 AND IN MY 53 YRS I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT!! ACROSS THE BOARD..WE WERE EVERYWHERE VISIBILITY WISE AND WE NEVER SAW ANY BUSH SUPPORT ANYWHERE HERE!! AND IT WASNT JUST AT THE END OF THE CAMPAIGN IT WAS ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT...WE HAD MORE CANVASSERS THAN I HAVE EVER SEEN..WE HAD KERRYS CANVASSERS, MOVE ON'S, ACT , COMMON CAUSE...AND THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF THEM..NEVER SAW ANY FOR BUSH..NONE!!
WHEN I WENT OUT TO SPEAK ..I NEVER GOT OUT EARLY AS THERE WOULD BE SO MANY WHO WOULD WANT TO TALK FOR HOURS AFTER ASKING QUESTIONS..REAL QUESTIONS, AND DETAILS...I HAVE NEVER SEEN PEOPLE SO ENGAGED!!

BUSH DID NOT WIN FLA..HE STOLE FLA!!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #64
78. Thank you...
Your message made me cry. It is too easy to believe the 'big theories' that are tossed around about why 'those' people did what they did when you don't know them. I am really happy to meet you Flyarm!

:-)
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #78
101. NO THANK YOU FOR HAVING VOTED RIGHT!!
FURTHERMORE..I HAD THE KERRY FIELD REP..HEAD GUY HERE IN PINELLAS LIVING WITH ME..SO I WAS ABLE TO DO ALOT OF INSIDE WORK..IN FACT MY KITCHEN TABLE WAS THE KERRY CAMPAIGN TO BEGIN WITH UNTIL THIS YOUNG MAN OPENED THE KERRY HEADQUARTERS HERE ..I WORKED EXTENSIVE HOURS ON THE COMPUTERS THAT THE DATA WENT STRAIGHT TO KERRY HEAD QUARTERS...SOMETIMES I WORKED 15 HOURS STRAIGHT PUTTING DATA INTO THE COMPUTERS FROM SOE OFFICE..WE HAD CANVASSERS GETTING ABSENTEE BALLOT REQUESTS AND WE PUT THIS DATA ALL TOGETHER AND MATCHED IT WITH SOE ROLLS...ONE OF THE KERRY CAMPAIGN KIDS SENT DOWN HERE AND I SAW A DEFINITE PATTERN RIGHT AWAY..
ON THE REQUEST FORMS THAT OUR CANVASSERS WERE GETTING FILLED OUT..WHEN WE WENT TO MATCH WITH SOE LISTS...BIRTHDATES WERE OFF...

NOW THE PEOPLE FILLED OUT THE REQUEST FORMS OR OUR CANVASSERS DID..FOR THEM..PEOPLE DON'T MAKE MISTAKES WITH THEIR BIRTHDAYS...

AND IT WAS ONLY HAPPENING WITH NAMES THAT TENDED TO SOUND LIKE AFRICAN AMERICANS...WE BOTH SAW THE SAME PATTERN WITH OUR STACKS AND STACKS OF REQUEST FORMS...
SAY SOMEONES BIRTH DAY WAS DEC 25, 1999
THE SOE OFFICAL LIST WOULD HAVE ...DEC 24,1999
OR............

DEC 25,1999 WOULD BE THE PERSONS REQUEST FORM
SOE LIST WOULD HAVE

DEC 25 1998 OR 2000
THIS WAS REPEATED OVER AND OVER WE FOUND...BUT ONLY WITH ETHNIC NAMES!! OR UNUSUAL AFRICAN AMERICAN TYPE NAMES...

WE IMMEDIATELY INFORMED WASHINGTON KERRY CAMPAIGN...

THIS CAUSED US MANY PHONE CALLS AND CANVASSERS TO GO BACK TO DOORS TELLING THE PEOPLE OF THESE PROBLEMS WITH SOE OFFICES...TO GET IT CORRECTED..IT CAUSED ALOT OF WORK...BUT WE DID IT...DAILY FOR MONTHS!!
IT WAS A HUGE EXPENSE FOR THE KERRY CAMPAIGN...
TRUST ME..WE HAD MANY PAID KERRY CANVASSERS DOWN HERE...MANY FROM N.J. AND THEY WERE PAID STAFFERS..TO CANVASS ONLY...
BUT THEY WERE FORCED TO BACK TRACK CONSTANTLY ..BECAUSE SOE OFFICE HAD BIRTHDATES WRONG...

THIS IS WHAT SET OFF A TRIGGER FOR ME WHEN I HEARD BLACKWELL IN OHIO WAS WANTING BIRTHDATES ON RPOVISIONAL BALLOTS...IT SET OFF ALL MY INNER BELLS...I KNEW WE WERE SEEING A SCAM HERE WHEN I WAS WORKING THE COMPUTERS FOR KERRY...AND WHEN I HEARD THAT IN OHIO..I THOUGHT THIS WAS A DISINFRANCING METHOD THAT WAS GOING TO BE APPLIED HERE IN FLA TOO HAD IT NOT BEEN STOLEN BY SO MANY ..AND IF FLA WAS IN PLAY!!
THE F* BUSHITS HAD ALL THE SCAMS READY!!! AND EMPLOYED..EARLY!! FLY
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
90. Election day there were reports everywhere about record turnout
Think they were turning out in record numbers for Bush? No F-ing way.

People don't turn out in record numbers because they want more of the same.

My county is solidly Republican. So if * won it that is feasible. But those Democratic counties that went for * -- no way.

My thinking on this whole vote-fraud issue is this -- there was a lot of skimming, so * would get the popular vote. There was out-and-out tampering. There was voter intimidation in heavily democratic precincts. Republican challengers lied to Dem voters to get them to go home. Many democrats were simply stricken from the rolls. People were forced to vote on provisional ballots because they were stricken from the rolls, and then their provisional ballots were disqualified for "technicalities." Hell people in Ohio waited 7-8 hours to vote, while neighboring precincts that typically vote Republican had no wait at all.

It was a very organized and methodical operation. They had everything covered.

If Bush won Florida I'm a monkey's uncle. It just didn't happen. Even some Republicans I know here hate Bush.
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #64
94. BTW I was also at the FL convention. Who was your candidate? n/t
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #94
102. THERE WAS ONLY ONE FOR ME EVER...KERRY!!
I STARTED WORKING FOR THE KERRY CAMPAIGN 2 YRS AGO...NEVER FOR ANYONE ELSE! AND IF YOU WATCHED THE CONVENTION YOU PROB SAW ME.,.I WAS ON EVERYTHING..EVEN FOX...AND FOX WAS VERY SORRY THEY INTERVIEWED ME!!
I WAS THE ONE THEY INTERVIEWED WHEN THE BALLOONS WERE FALLING LAST NIGHT..AND THEY TRIED TO PULL THE PLUG ON ME CAUSE I RIPPED THEM AND JEB A NEW A$$HOLE...THEY WERE YELLING FROM THE TRUCK..CUT HER CUT HER....AND I WOULDNT SHUT UP!!!..I HAD NO IDEA IT WAS FOX WHO WAS RUNNING ME TO GET ME ON AIR...AND WHEN THEY GOT ME TO THE REPORTER..I SAW FOX ON HER MIC...AND I THOUGHT..OHHH MYYYYY....YOU PICKED THE WRONG LADY FOR THIS INTERVIEW AND I LET THEM HAVE IT!! LOL...AND JEB TOO!!..THEY FINALLY CUT THE CAMERA AWAY FROM ME AND SHOWED THE INSIDE OF THE HALL BUT I NEVER SKIPPED A BEAT ..I KEPT TELLING THEM OFF...AND THEY FINALLY HAD TO BRING CAMERA BACK TO ME...TO SHUT ME UP!!
I THINK THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE PUTTING ON A PRETTY LADY BUBBLE HEAD...WRONG THEY WERE!!!
FROM WHAT ALL MY FRIENDS HAVE TOLD ME..I WAS ON EVERYTHING BUT CBS!!
YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU GET INTERVIEWED WHAT WILL END UP ON THE CUTTING FLOOR...BUT I WAS TOO BUSY THERE TO SEE ANYTHING...I WAS AT ALL THE BEST CAUCUSES...IN FACT I HAD TO RENT A LIMO DAILY TO GET TO ALL I WENT TO!!
AND MY FAVORITE WAS JOE WILSON AND GARY HART...

AND I ASSURE YOU...KERRY KNEW AND KNOWS THE EVILNESS OF THIS REGIME IN OUR WHITE HOUSE...AND HE HAD THE BEST MINDS OF THIS COUNTRY BEHIND HIM..THIS AINT OVER TILL ITS OVER..I ASSURE YOU OF THAT...IT MAY BE QUIET AND THE KERRY PEOPLE MAY HAVE BEEN QUIET THROUGH NOW...BUT THEY ARE SOME OF THE BEST MINDS OF THIS COUNTRY...IF THERE IS A WAY THIS CAN BE PULLED OUT OF BUSHES HANDS IT WILL BE..BUT THE RIGHT WAY..AND THE BRILLIANT WAY..IF THERE IS FRAUD IT WILL GET EXPOSED...I BELIEVE IN MY HEART THAT SO MANY THINGS WEREGOING ON UNDER THE RADAR..THAT WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE FULL SCOPE OF IT...BUT JUST KEEP REMEMBERING THIS..KERRY IS A BRILLANT MAN...AND CRIMINALS ALWAYS MAKE SOME KIND OF MISTAKE...AND KERRY WAs a prosecuter!!

opps..sorry i wrote in all caps...applogize for that...i have bad eyesight...without glasses ( going through that senior eye change now..) ..caps are easier for me to read!!
FLY
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #102
106. I remember very well when Kerry walked into the convention
Everybody had an entourage of some kind. Dean had all these paid union fanatics. I was with the Clark delegation and we had so much hoopla (I'm sure you remember) that there was no way to get close to Clark.

Kerry came in I think before Clark. I remember saying to my friend that we should put our Clark signs down as a show of respect. We damn sure didn't show that same respect for the Dean people. They were obnoxious. So in comes Kerry, as happy go lucky as if there was nothing at stake and he was having a grand old time. His entourage was so much smaller than Dean's or Clark's. It was very noticeable. I can remember thinking two things.

One, that his demeanor seemed much less serious than the rest of the candidates, almost as if he didn't care about the outcome of the election as long as he had a good time. It was surprising. I mean I'm sure that he cared very deeply. He just didn't show it. He joked around a lot. I never saw him that happy go lucky for the rest of his campaign. After that he got very somber and serious. So much so that people thought he was a real stiff. He isn't.

Two, I wondered why he wasn't doing better in the polls. It didn't make sense to me. Seemed to me like he should have stood a much better chance of winning than Dean or Clark, with his credentials. But at that time he was having to take out a mortgage on his house to stay in the race.

Then of course the surprise upset happened in NH and IA. Clark dropped out. Dean dropped out eventually. So my instinct was more right than I knew.

OK, enough nostalgia. I just think that it's interesting how we thought the primaries would turn out one way and then everything changed very fast.

I'm glad to hear that you believe that Kerry is on top of this fraud thing. I so want to believe that myself, it is nice to hear it from someone who was working for him in FL. Thanks for giving me a little hope!

:hi:
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floridadem30 Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #64
115. I live in FL too and I never saw any bush volunteers only dems
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
53. olbermann
I recall reading a post that alleged Olbermann was highly skeptical about the single check (for 29.6 million)issue; can't point to the post though. Any thoughts on that one? Was he implying that this was too simplistic? Maybe but perhaps there were other checks as well. Just because Madsen has reported only one... Maybe this part of Madsen's story is hiding something. I mean Madsen can't be naive!
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #53
65. Keith Olbermann emailed me as well..this is what he said about check
"pardon me, computer glitch (I assume)... ONE check to cover the entire operation? Did it have a memo line reading "For Fixing Election"? It's madness..."
-Keith Olbermann
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. do KO think Bush, Rummy, Cheney and Rove are sane in comparison?
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 01:57 PM by NVMojo
...the level of madness going on with this administration is clear to me, why wouldn't it be clear to KO?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
70. You recall correctly. That was before he got to talk w/ Madsen.
Lets see what KO thinks now. From the letter KO sent me I got the impression that he thought it was funny that it was paid for in one large sum, which I didn't think was that wierd. Also as you say there could be additional checks uncovered as of yet. I figured this check was a mid-point transaction that paid a "subcontractor". $29 million didn't seem all that wierd to me. It could be that those sums of money are normal for these entities -- maybe they move that kind of money every day for all I know.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
72. Thanks, Madsen, and you are correct, you have to make it libel-
proof. Too bad you have too many monkeys here who can't figure out what a real journalist does. Too many cut their teeth on Fox News reporting.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
121. You know, I was a REAL investigative journalist for 12 years
and this Madsen thing looks to me like so much tin foil.
I wish you'd stop acting holier-than-thou and let the REAL reporters do their jobs before slamming posters who question this.
I don't know what claim to fame you think you have, but your badgering others who are skeptical on this board is very annoying. They have every bit as much right to be skeptical as you do to believe the half-proven musings of someone who has, in the past, written some pretty outrageous and unsubstantiated articles.

I happen to agree with Keith on this one. I think $29 million written on a check, that no one here has seen (only a list of obscure numbers reported) sounds fishier than hell to me, too. Then, of course, Madsen offers NO PROOF WHAT-SO-EVER that the check from Equity Financial Trust to Five Star Investment was for "election fraud." What? Was that written in the memo? It could have been any sort of business deal, possibly even, yes, shady.
As I've said about 20 times, I hope there are technicians who were paid to disrupt the election and come forward - but think about it. Why would they go to a no-name like Madsen? Why aren't they talking to the FBI? And, if they are, why isn't Madsen reporting this?
I hope Keith can get to the bottom of this and I hope there is something to it, but, for now, the story is too wild with third-party rumor-mongering for mainstream publication.
Let someone with a modecum of mainstream reporting sense - one who is up on current Communications and libel/slander laws investigate this.
Meanwhile, please stop slamming people for questioning a story full of holes. OK?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #121
123. KO made those comments before talking to WM. Lets see what he says now.nt
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ahyums Donating Member (348 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
99. I'm really starting to believe he might actually be able to expose this
lets' just hope he hurries up so that Bush's inauguration can be prevented.
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
132. Hasn't the search 4 lockdowned counting sites only come up with 3 places?
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 08:05 PM by Garbo 2004
(The last time I looked, anyway.) Including Warren County? And in another, was it Arizona, the Repub watchers were kicked out for a time because they were disruptive? Were the Dem observers allowed to remain? Even in Warren County, while the media was kept out it is not clear that all party observers were kept out. It would appear that at least some of the known counting site lockdowns were not necessarily without some outside observers.

The significance is that it suggests a problem with Madsen's claims and methodology. A simple matter of fact checking. Madsen asserted that there were media reports around the country of such events suggesting lockdowns were a more widespread phenomena. But so far the DU search results and his email response here suggests he himself hadn't done the research to support his own assertion. If he did research something as relatively mundane and confirmable as media reports of locked down counting sites to make such an assertion, he should enumerate them and provide the locations to save people time. If he didn't research it and now wants others to do so, was his article just making assumptions based on media reports on the Warren County lockdown and he simply exaggerated the reports of count site lockdowns to make it appear a nationwide phenomena? If so, that's sloppy reporting, whether it's standard journalism or investigative journalism.

This aspect of his story was something previously mentioned here at DU as a check of Madsen's methodology and credibilty in a basic matter; Olbermann notes that also. If Madsen doesn't fact check or exaggerates basic assertions that do not require "informed sources" or superduper investigative reporter skills, how rigorous is he about vetting the other more grand allegations and alleged evidence that come his way?

One can believe that Madsen is acting in good faith without fully embracing his story at face value. Even he uses words like "allege" to distance himself somewhat from some of this stuff, such as the check for example. But damn if he doesn't fact check essential mundane bits of his assertions or exaggerates...sorry that does call into question his skills and credibility as an investigative reporter.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #132
142. there's also the e-voting company employees
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WiseFawn Donating Member (101 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
20. He blogged about Madsen...
Is this what you are talking about? I always look at MSNBC first, then come here. But this is the only new thread I've found that mentioned him.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
71. That blog was written after KO read only the first article. I urged him
to read the second article, he responded w/ incredulity about the one huge check and then I wrote him again encouraging him to talk to Madsen directly and I wrote to Madsen encouraging the same. They did. We'll see what KO's new impression is.
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redsoxliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
22. if we get olbermann and it's true
we're golden.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. So grateful that you have followed up on this and suggested
that the 2 talk. Thank you and thanks for the updates.
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
32. Everybody, here is Madsen's email address to get in contact
Here is Madsen's email address in case you have questions/comments about his fraud article:

WMadsen777@aol.com

He seems really nice and has responded to all of my emails thus far!
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trayfoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Madsen did not respond to my email.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #32
73. Please try not to flood him please! n/t
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markusd Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
35. Honestly, KO shot Madsen down
I just read Olbermann's entire piece on Madsen at MSNBC. To be quite honest, Olbermann cast a lot of doubt on what Madsen has produced to date. And to be quite honest, I believe that what Olbermann wrote makes a lot of sense and that Madsen has a long, long way to go to convince me.

I have written a great deal about the evidence that is suggestive of fraud, and about voter suppression - mostly over at dailykos under the same handle that I use here (markusd) - and I am a total proponent of fully investigating this election and implementing strong election reform - but we should not invest ourselves in fringe journalists who write stuff that doesn't hang together and doesn't really have much evidence behind it. My own view, and others may of course disagree, is that Madsen's tale can hurt us more than help us, because it can distract from much more solid stories about what happened this year.
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Shopaholic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. I'm sorry y'all--I do believe that this election was fradulant--
I believe that it was rampant and widespread and may possibly have altered the results of the election, but I just don't know that I can buy the story that Madsen is spinning. I want to, believe me, I'd do. Nothing would make me happier if this were all true and that he could prove it. I guess after they set up Dan Rather my belief in the ability of any person in the press to get the story out is in serious doubt.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #40
54. Hi shopaholic! Please post Keith link.
Will you please post your link to that NY Observer interview that Keith gave? I've been posting it all over, but I don't want to take credit for it, since you found it. I think the people here would enjoy reading it, and they may not have seen it since it was posted so late last night.

I don't beleive Madsen either, it's too convenient. I also hope that everyone involved checks the sources about 10 times before ever going "public" with this. NO ONE needs another Dan "moment".

Thanks!
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KaliTracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
55. concur
and several people here pointed out similar things that Olbermann did.

tracy
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #35
76. Again, that was BEFORE talking to Madsen and before even reading 2nd artic
le. Wait and see what he says now.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
79. MY CONCERN IS.......
THAT HE IS BEING SET UP BY ROVE LIKE RATHER WAS TO TAKE THE STORY IN ANOTHER DIRECTION OF WHAT MAY BE COMMING FROM KERRYS PEOPLE..THAT THIS IS ANOTHER PLANTED STORY TO TAKE AWAY FROM THE REAL STORY AND THERE BY EITHER SHUTTING DOWN THE REAL DEAL...BY MAKING ONE SO BOGUS THAT NOTHING IS THEN BELIEVABLE...ITS ROVES M.O...HE IS THE MASTER OF IT!!

AND REMEMBER MADSEN HAD TIES WITH REAGAN...WHO BETTER COULD ROVE GO TO??

ROVE KNOWS THE SHOE IS ABOUT TO FALL..AND HE WILL DO ANYTHING TO TAKE EYES OFF THE REAL BALL!! AND IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE EMAIL SOMEONE UP TOP GOT ..MADSEN NOW WANTS THE PEOOLE HERE TO DO HIS RESEARCH..NOW AFTER THE FACT ..AFTER HE ALREADY WROTE THE STORY.. EXAMPLE...


Vote4Kerry (125 posts) Sun Nov-28-04 10:32 AM
Response to Original message


19. Madsen emailed me today..here's what he said


"Okay.. they need to concentrate on rigging and closed off/secured vote counting sites in Texas, Ohio, California, and Florida. Any irregularities concerning techies, especially Diebold, should be reported (to me or Joan's network). The Democrats are aware of more details of this story but for me, as a jorno, I can't yet name names because I have to gather more evidence and make this story libel proof. The national vote padding for Bush (the 3 million margin) happened primarily in Texas, Florida, and California.

thanks

wayne madsen"

MADSEN SAYS..."THEY NEED TO CONCENTRATE" ?????????????

FLY SAYS... WHY HE SAID HE HAD FACTS IN HIS FIRST ARTICLE....


MADSEN SAYS..."Any irregularities concerning techies, especially Diebold, should be reported (to me or Joan's network)."

FLY SAYS.........WHY I THOUGHT HE HAD THIS INFO IN HIS FIRST ARTICLE OR HE SAID HE DID..THAT MEDIA HAS STORIES OF LOCKDOWNS...??!!

I MAY BE WRONG ..I SURE HOPE I AM... , BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT NOW MADSEN IS ON A FISHING EXPEDITION TO VALIDATE WHAT HE WROTE IN THE FIRST PLACE!! OR TO BACK UP HIS STORY..

WHAT GOOD WRITER DOESN'T HAVE THE GOODS BEFORE HE PUTS IT TO PAPER???

MY HUBBY IS IN THE MEDIA..AND I ASSURE YOU HE BETTER HAVE HIS STORY NAILED BEFORE HE DOES THE STORY...OR HE DOESNT DO THE STORY...
( SPORTS THOUGH) ..I WATCH MY HUBBY GO THROUGH EXAUSTIVE RESEARCH BEFORE HE EVER SAYS A WORD...AND IF HE DOESN'T HAVE THE FACTS PERFECT HE DOESNT GO WITH IT...

THIS SEEMS TO ME LIKE BACK TRACKING BY MADSEN...ITS JUST MY OBSERVATION..LIKE I SAID I HOPE I AM WRONG..EITHER THAT OR MADSEN IS SCARED..BUT YOU CAN NOT GO WITH A STORY WITH THIS MANY HOLES IN IT, AND BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY! FLY
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. No one (NO ONE) will say anything without proof
No one will kill their career by bad reporting after Rovian Rather trick. It's OK, he's not going to do anything stupid.

Here's a link to a new Olbermann interview. He's curious, but NOT STUPID.

http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/frontpage4.asp
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
85. Madsen's not a MSM reporter. He is bleeding edge invest. reporter, so he
goes w/ things earlier in the cycle than someone like your husband would. See NVmojo for more on this.
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
49. Madsen just sent me another email! He asks for our help! Pleas read!
Everybody,
Madsen sent me another email asking for our help! Here it is:

Something else you could post:

This may be hard to ascertain but it is important. Did anyone working any polls as workers or monitors notice any questionable vote machine technicians who had heavy foreign accents, in particular Spanish or Eastern European-sounding (Russian, especially)? Were they asked for IDs by poll workers. Did any have trouble producing IDs?

Did anyone who worked the California recall election in 2002 notice anything similar to the above?

California 2002 may have been a testbed for 2004. A number of the planted "techies" in question may not have been US citizens but from Mexico, Brazil, Russia or Russian emigres to Israel.

This question primarily applies to polling places in Florida, Ohio, Texas and California. But if anyone in other states picked up on any of this, it is important to find out about that as well.

Any information, please post or email Wayne at: WMadsen777@aol.com
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #49
88. I WAS A FLA POLL WATCHER...
I WAS A POLL WATCHER FOR PRIMARIES AND EARLY VOTING AND GENERAL...NEVER SAW ANYTHING LIKE THAT..THE MACHINE WORKERS WERE AMERICAN TRAINED BY SOE AND THEY WERE ON DUTY AS POLL WORKERS ALL DAY..THEY WERE ALL WOMEN ( THAT I SAW AND I WORKED AT NUMEROUS POLLING PLACES BECAUSE I WAS AT -LARGE POLL WATCHER..WHICH MENAT I COULD GO TO ANYPLACE THEY NEEDED ME) AND SENIOR WOMEN..WHEN WE HAD A RETARDED GIRL PULL THE TAPE OUT OF THE BACK OF A MACHINE THE HEAD SUPERVISOR ( OF SOE OFFICE WHERE EARLY POLLING WAS TAKING PLACE) WAS FIXING THE MACHINE WITH THE TRAINED POLL PLACE COMPUTER FIXER LADY..DONT KNOW WHAT HER TITLE WAS ..BUT THEY HAD PEOPLE HERE IN FLA PINELLAS TRAINED TO FIX THE MACHINES AT ALL POLLING PLACES..THEY HAD TAKEN CLASSES TO FIX MINOR PROBLEMS..AND RESET MACHINES..WE HAD SEQUOIA..
AND WE WERE THE FOOT OF THE I-4 CORRIDOR...FLY
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IAMREALITY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #88
96. STOP WITH THE CAPS!!!!!!
First off it is against DU rules (I see you are a newbie and probably don't know that.)

Secondly it is extremly annoying. It is intended only to portray yelling, so Please, LAY OFF THE CAPS!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #96
103. opps..
i have really bad eyesight right now..doing the eye /vision change right now..not ready for the bifocals dr says..but i sure can't hardly read the small stuff!! it all criss crosses on me!! caps stand out for me and don't criss cross so bad!!..sorry..can't read with the glasses right now and can't see the small stuff without them...sorry!! fly
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #103
125. You can write in your word processor and cut and paste the message
and add the Subject line.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #96
104. Thank you...
I kept feeling like I was being yelled at.
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tandem5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
91. This thread might be helpful...
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 03:01 PM by tandem5
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x83719

since this is an actual account of a pollwatcher speaking to a tech.
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ClintCooper2003 Donating Member (629 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
51. California
The final LA Times poll showed Kerry leading in California 58 to 40. I thought it was really weird that he ended up winning by only 11 points.

However, the exit poll showed him winning in California by only 8 points. This election truly puzzles me. I feel sometimes like we're living in the Twilight Zone.
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #51
75. numbers votes
In the 3 states Fla., Texas, and Cal. there are about 23, 000,000
million votes for president. If about 1,000,000 votes were switched from Kerry to Bush in those three states alone that accounts for a 2,000,000 vote difference. 1 out of 23 is a little more than 4%.
The weakness for this argument is that both Texas and California had 'blue' shifts from the early exit polls. I would have suspected Fla and Ohio of course, as those states had significant red shifts. I'd add Penn. in there too on this basis (and the large pops of those states). However, one significant caveat: California's polls were open for a long time after the early exit polls came out (4pm est where I got the data) and I really believe Republicans tend to vote early in the day. Texas fits this less well but to some degree.
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rdmccur Donating Member (622 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #75
98. more
I'd like to add that I recall Zogby predicted a virtual tie in popular vote (though a landslide electoral Kerry win) based on the early exit polls.
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #75
113. I remember either reading or watching someone say
that it would only take 2 votes per precinct in CA switched for Bush to make a huge difference or upset in CA. I found that really interesting since if you did that nationally it would give Bush his Man Date.
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
52. oh no
Not again.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
61. some of us are already researching. Where have you been?
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
69. Correction to earlier Madsen email (from Madsen)
Wayne sent me this asking me to correct a typo in on of his earlier emails:

"One more thing? -- could you correct a typo is my last post -- that should have read California Recall 2003 not 2002. If anyone noticed any similar problems with election techs -- as previously stated -- in the October 7, 2003 election it may be pertinent to what happened there and in other states in 2004. Especially in the Counties of Kern, Plumas, Alameda, Riverside, & Shasta.

w.m."
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rebelskypirate Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
80. Good Posts!
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
84. Keith Olbermann emailed me with this:
Subject: RE: Updated article: Madsen
Date: 11/27/2004 3:09:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
From: Keith.Olbermann@MSNBC.COM
To: xxxxxxxxxx@aol.com


"This is goofier than the first one -- ONE check for $29m to cover the expenses?"
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. Next time
make sure to tell him "Thanks and Sorry!" if you didn't already. We're bothering the poor man so much, we must be annoying the hell out of him.

Also, tell him I love him...OK, just kidding. :)
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #89
95. I did, I emailed him immediately "Thanks and
Sorry" right after I rec'd his email.

I also told him you love him....(just kidding back) :))
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #95
110. i do
:)
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #110
111. and so do I! nt
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #111
112. Did you read this interview with Keith?
http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/frontpage4.asp

Talk about dreamy..."I have no overwhelming loyalty to anything other than: get out a flag and wave it back and forththe truth," he said.
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. Yes...I did..everyone should....
read it.
Keith had some very interesting points--I like this one:

said Mr. Olbermann. "Because at the bottom line, something atypical happened here, and that, I believe, is at the heart of news."
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. I posted it last night, but it went away fast...
I hope everyone reads it also.
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #116
122. GREAT ARTICLE AND IMPORTANT..I'LL KICK
IT, SO MORE DU'ERS CAN READ IT.
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ccarter84 Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #122
145. Ditto
:kick:
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #84
92. That was BEFORE talking to Madsen. He had sent me one similar and that is
why I encouraged each of them to hook up.
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. Do you have the email
from either of them?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #97
126. Yes. n/t
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #126
127. In that case, could you post a snip
of the mail from either of them?
I would so appreciate it!
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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
107. Let's proceed with caution, it could be a Rovian trick.

Maybe there's something to it, but we don't know what.
So it's best to use some critical thinking regarding this.
Some of the pieces check out, for example there is a warning
about 'Equity Financial Trust', 'Falcon Financial and Trust'
and 'Unity Virtual Trust Group' from Canada:

http://www.osfi-bsif.gc.ca/eng/documents/notices/docs/Warning_Notice_55_e.pdf

but we don't know what this means. It doesn't imply the story is true. Scams are often based on bits of truth strung together. We need to be
careful, especially if any donations are asked for.

Here's some discussion about this:

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #107
117. Madsen's no babe in the woods. He's wise to Rove
and knows what he's capable of. I trust his nose for siffing out disinformation.

Another reason why I don't think this is disinfo is that the election fraud story has such weak legs already in America's mainstream, it doesn't need discrediting with such an elaborate fabrication to discourage further investigation.

I trust Madsen's instincts, and I think he is on it.
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mountebank Donating Member (755 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
118. Are they really talking - or are you just talking?
I didn't read every post in this thread, but it seems the justification for your thread heading is that you told them by e-mail that they should hook up and talk. Any evidence that they have done that?
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #118
124. Yes there is evidence. What will the end result be? We don't know yet.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 06:03 PM by jamboi
Lets watch and see.
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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
120. probably covered but if it helps
The fact that Warren County has such odd vote counts is no surprise to Fitrakis. The Republican-dominated county threw out all the media and independent vote watchers when votes were being counted at the end of Election Day, claiming homeland security issues. This would have easily allowed for the wholesale shifting of a large amount of votes from Kerry to Bush. If youre behind closed doors, it is easy enough to do. The November issues of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics magazines show how easy it is to hack the vote and steal an election. The articles are called E-vote emergency: And you thought dimpled chads were bad and Could hackers tilt the election? I think they did, explained Fitrakis.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/944

Perhaps Madsen or such should contact this Mr. Fitrakis.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #120
128. Well, I did forward Madsen's story to FreePress.org. No response 2 me yet
Though they could easily hook up quite apart from me and I'd never know...
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
130. Historians take up to ten years to pour over documents to get the story.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 06:21 PM by higher class
Investigative reporters chip away and when it's all over - pass it on to the historians if they are open.

Why do people here think that Madsen is a historian? He would be ready to connect-the-dots if he were a historian.

He's not writing for Reuters or CNN or the Washington Times (ho ho) - he is writing a blog - er, make that a journal.

He's providing his findings. Why expect more? It's crazy to accuse him. Who else is providing anything like this? It is not improbable. If it is a Rovian trick it means that he is taking bigger and bigger risks in the enormity of the trick - millions, plus FBI employees. This is good either way.

As far as KO and the one check question. Enron was a money launderer for the right wing. There are billions missing from the DOD and some other government departments. There are billions in off shore banks and businesses. Why would a mere $29 million mean anything to these people especially if it flies right past government checkpoints? Or is escorted in its transmission by government employees?

And who else but the FBI would know about foreign computer hacks - could be barter work. Knowledge - top of their field. Labor - pennies. Hush money - big dollars.
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
131. kick
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propagandafreegal Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
135. I hope this Madsen isn't a Karl Rove 'plant'...
I can't wait to hear the interview on WKPFT
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
136. I'm still worried that the Bushies will somehow stifle the investigation.
They have so much power. How much power do the "good guys" have? Sometimes it's hard to even known who the "good guys" are, if you know what I mean.

Michael Ruppert is predicting that nothing will come of this--just as nothing has come of the multiple scandals revolving around the BFEE. I am worried he is right, but I still think we should go ahead and do our damnedest to fight. My "damnedest" is pessimistic right now. I want to rejoin the fight, but I'm having serious personal issues.

If the story does break wide open and fraud is proven, we should insist of an audit of every single state. Election fraud is HUGE. If some of the "popular vote" padding came from my state, California, I want to know about it.

There were "discrepancies" in my county. I came in during the middle of a description, but I can't remember the details. We had paper ballots here, but I don't know how they were scanned. This is a red county full of idiots (can you tell I'm angry?), so I wouldn't put it past someone to try something stupid.

I think the issue was that the scanner was outdated and wasn't reporting votes accurately. I'll look into it when I can. I wasn't thinking a low-population county like mine--with paper ballots, no less--would be part of the problem.
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jamboi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #136
140. See "Prima Facie..." thread. That may cheer you up substantially! link
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Vote4Kerry Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
143. Everybody, Wayne Madsen will answer your questions directly at this thread
Jamboi was good enough to start a Q&A thread with Madsen. Any questions for him, go here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x86907
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