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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 08:46 AM
Original message
BBV.org - "Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection."
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 08:56 AM by txindy
From BlackBoxVoting.Org:

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.c...

snip

"Also interestingly enough, the state and F.B.I just barely seized CyberNET Ventures Inc capital in Michigan state for all of its computer systems. Every single last one, in one large effort, and refused to state why they had them seized and impounded.

More interesting though, is the fact that if you look and sniff around it appears CyberNET (who is also, direct finance of the white house and ambassador) had its systems freely distributed among universities...Schools, teaching sites, and so on everywhere. And more interestingly also worldwide.

But the most interesting part of all, is CyberNET's own interest in Diebold, and helping them out of some dirty circumstances...."


snip

Much more at the link.


Is this what has been discussed before? Training hackers to alter election results? (I'm trying to figure it out before coffee. Not promising for me under those circumstances! ;))
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes but some people couldn't get past Jeff Fisher
http://thestraights.com/news/#gt-rape

Growing Togetehr is a "faith-based" program owned by the Semlers. For those who don't already know: Mel and Betty Sembler ran the myriad Straight foundations, in multiple states, and have been sued over/involved in multiple child abuse cases for over a decade.

Protesters picket Florida Holocaust Museum Awards Banquet

http://thestraights.com/pickets/fl-holo-011704/fl-holo-...

David Lopez Blass released from Straight-descendent Growing Together, Oct 29 Heat from John Kerry and Florida Democrat candiate Jeff Fisher helped secure the release of David Blass. link aA new site shed's light on Growing Together. link There is a petition out to grant full Constitutional rights to David Blass and to all clients at Growing Together. petition
http://thestraights.com/index.htm

It is worth the pain giving a glance to its new friend, Sembler ambassador. His Excellency Melvin Floyd Sembler, beyond to being "extraordinary and plenipotentiary Ambassador in Italy", is also a "distinguished citizen" of the Scout, has had a medal from the National Conference of the Christians and of the Hebrew, it has had the Humanitarian Prize of the center Hebrew Golda Meir/Kent, but above all he is ex-president of the International Council of the Centers Trades them.

In fact, Sembler is not sure a diplomats of profession. For the precision, he is a former-vendor of feminine underwear, become one of the main constructors of centers trades them of the United States.
http://thestraights.com/articles/sembler-italian-kelebe ...


They run very close to really performing psychic murder. Marge Robertson, executive director of the Cincinnati Chapter of the ACLU, speaking of Straight, Inc., from Cincinnati Post

http://thestraights.com/articles/melsembler-bio.htm
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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Booomb!!!!
This may the smoking gun keep pushing this!!!!

The people on blackboxvoting.org are discussing right now in a little more detail.

they are asking that all links, info, research,ect.. be attached to a central page. Also save this info so that if the info disappears then we have a back up.

I live in Florida and Jeff Fisher the 16th congressional canidate had a meeting with the FBI on Monday, nowthe FBI siezes all of Diebold's computers in Michigan??

Interesting??

We were pretty leery of this at first on blackboxvoting.org but now we may have something here.

:O
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Bay Point - two campuses in south Florida.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. So, what's the deal with Fisher?
I've been reading his website. Does he really have the smoking gun or what?

http://www.walkingwithfisher.com/Campaign2006/indexlett...
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Ducks In A Row Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. if he does, he's not stupid enough to post it publicly
he's obviously working with the fbi (the part not stomped down yet by bush).

this is going to be good. I've got the popcorn ready.
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Let's hope the show is as good as the previews suggest
;)

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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
57. Fisher has new stuff up on his website
(I don't know what to make of him...one minute I believe it, then I don't)
But here it is:

"Kevin Zeese, Ralph Nader's media spokesman, was in contact with Al Rogers via phone and informed him that Mr. Nader was onboard as long as we could provide the financing. Mr. Rogers informed him that we had located a financial source to fund his efforts. At the time of that phone call Mr. Zeese said he would relay that message to Mr. Nader. Mr. Rogers asked him again if this meant that Mr. Nader was on board? Mr. Zeese responded by saying that the answer was that as long as the financing was in place then Mr. Nader would continue his effort to get a recount in Florida.

Footnote: Prior to this conversation, Mr. Rogers was involved with a four-way phone conversation with Ralph Nader, Jennifer Masaryk-Ellis and Jeff Fisher It was discussed that emails and faxes were received by Teresa Amato, Kevin Zeese and Marsha (last name unknown). At that time, Mr. Nader had stated that he had not reviewed the information. Mr. Nader also asked why the DNC hadn't initiated the recount. Mr. Fisher stated that he didn't know the answer, and wasn't privy to the decision making process of the DNC. Mr. Fisher even made a joke that used a few choice words for their seeming lack of interest. However, after a lengthy conversation, Mr. Nader asked "Are you sure that you can arrange adequate financing toward a statewide recount?" Mr. Fisher told Mr. Nader, "Yes", and he would give Mr. Nader the name and phone number of the person to contact regarding the financing."

http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/Campaign2006/index...

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MI Cherie Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. CyberNET local link
The CyberNET Group hosts Internet Web sites for companies and holds electronic data for them. The company is based in Grand Rapids with 120 employees, and another 550 worldwide in Chicago, Las Vegas, the United Kingdom, Philippines, Australia, Hong Kong and China.

... the investigation involves wire mail fraud and bank fraud. The allegations are something the company's owner and CEO Barton Watson is familiar with, as he was convicted of fraud in the 1980s. He served three years in a federal prison and was released in 1989.

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2578803&nav=0R...

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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Booomb!!!
here is the links and the story from BBV.org, people on this site have not caught onto this enough YET!!!

"Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection."


I was at first looking at PMing this for private use, but I think its time the public see this.
Interestingly enough, Dr. Piotr Blass is not only significant and real, he has alot of resume background in Michigan state, and otherwise, is connected to a very interesting corporation known as CyberNET Venturs Inc.(which manages all of Cybernets divisions...)

In the allegations report, a certain vendor described that such a network company was financing the operation through Mel Sembler and a few other bad eggs connected to the head of the game map. Another company was described as giving source to certain code.....Turns out CyberN is indeed an open source code distributor to several organizations, ultimately not even limited to voting companies. Also turns out an employee named Guitterez works(or had worked) there and created actual databases for elections across the USA and easily the globe, that are certainly not MS Access.

http://engrm.com/personnel/gutierrez-alan/experiential....

Also interestingly enough, the state and F.B.I just barely seized CyberNET Ventures Inc capital in Michigan state for all of its computer systems. Every single last one, in one large effort, and refused to state why they had them seized and impounded.

More interesting though, is the fact that if you look and sniff around it appears CyberNET (who is also, direct finance of the white house and ambassador) had its systems freely distributed among universities...Schools, teaching sites, and so on everywhere. And more interestingly also worldwide.

But the most interesting part of all, is CyberNET's own interest in Diebold, and helping them out of some dirty circumstances....

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:mk1BGFoCVrkJ:www.eff...

And of course on top of all this, ChoicePoint government who controls voting name rosters, being issued by Jeb Bush to directly not only take off the felon purge lists, but keep them as well. Authorities issued repeated orders for him to turn it off and instead he saved all the names to some hard drive and area around there in order to use them all again later.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,65377,00.html...

What I'm seeing here, is clearly one of the ugliest watergate level scandals there ever was, and then of course the media has no idea of anything. So what can we do about it?

Here is what: We need an astute group of search experts, to find any, and every single tie the one and only CyberNET Ventures has with this issue because it leads straight to the top and back to the whitehouse. So far much information seems to be missing (blank pages) so experts who have background in information management, do your part! Search all the archives and find any and all reports and links of these companies together, linkes to ChoicePoint, links between each party and so on and get this rotton egg hard broiled!

Of course the vote totals were flipped: Using obvious malicious code of rigged names across the board, some that possibly don't even exist (see: evicted felon/citizen roster) and even adoptions for all anyone knows. And the way to make this come full force as the biggest dump ever seen is do an information sweep, and find every single leaked report there possibly is, get it recorded! Get it archived!

We can help the federal authorities and team do their job, Ireland even said this on the radio. And yes I'm going to say something some would start turning their heads in at: The Fisher story is most likely a correct, variable assessment and main report of what went on.

Schools involved clearly are not the only ones as Cal Tech and universities constantly stating the exit polls mean nothing, are all possible suspects too. I would leave no stone unturned and do your part as citizens to call it out.

Oh and good luck, we have democracy at risk here.

"Nothing is foolproof. Footprints are real."



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Auditors
Member since Nov-13-04
9 posts Nov-18-04, 02:14 AM (PST)

1. "RE: Bay Point Schools, Cal Tech, and the CyberNET connection."
In response to message #0

LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-04 AT 02:17 AM (PST)

Would any republican doubt Cal Tech MIT could be involved and are also hackers in this operation?

Think again: The truth comes out, and it lands right on your face.


"6 MILLION VOTES LOST in 2000 ?!?!?
by lawnorder

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/18/45344/380

Thu Nov 18th, 2004 at 04:53:44 CDT

Did you see anything on the media about a Caltech study showing 6 MILLION VOTES LOST in 2000 ?!?!?!

Who is this Caltech / MIT Voting group?

On 2000 they were about this...

On 2004 they are about COVER -UP:
MSNBC -Rolled up papers at fifty places (Keith Olbermann)
SECAUCUS-- You know it's bad when the two sides start throwing professors at one another.

Two conflicting scholarly studies on the variance between the national exit polling and the presidential election results, are flying across the Internet.. One, from the University of Pennsylvania.. suggests the actual statistical odds that the exit polling was that wrong in the battleground states were 250,000,000 to one.

The other, from a voting project managed by CalTech and MIT, says that .. on a state-by-state basis,

A fellow Kossack had noticed the Cal Tech study was "weird" and Caltech is involved with ES & S and the extreme right wing

Another MIT report believes in fraud
The Blue Lemur - Progressive Politics and Media News
Odds of Bush gaining by 4 percent in all exit polling states 1 in 50,000; Evoting/paper variance not found to be significant

A statistical analysis of exit polling conducted for RAW STORY by a former MIT mathematics professor has found the odds of Bush making an average gain of 4.15 percent among all 16 states included in the media's 4 p.m. exit polling is 1 in 50,000, or .002 percent.

The analysis, conducted by former Associate Professor of Mathematics David Anick, also ruled out any significance of a variance between electronic balloting and paper ballot states, which RAW STORY reported last week.

The Cal Tech/MIT paper
Another Kossack summarizes it's weak numbers
Caltech/MIT Voting Technology Project: Flip-Flop, Flip-Flop, Flip-Flop
I thought it odd that the November 11, 2004 Caltech/MIT .. report .. would focus so narrowly on justifying the discrepancy between the exit polls and the actual vote without ever mentioning that the openness to fraud of the electronic vote tabulation that they delineated

The paper was very weak on statistics and facts... Apparently only one person worked on it.

http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/04/11/wo_selke...

Selker picked up the work of a REAL statistics pro (The math professor at MIT who wrote the blue lemur article above), massaged the numbers a little, added some tales about HIS experience as "observer of elections" and came up with some lame conclusions and some pretty looking Lotus graphics... And worse, he didn't even sign his paper, i.e, he must be embarassed of it... I wasn't impressed at all!

As dennisv had already pointed out here on Kos, that study is very fishy.. And Caltech is involved with ES & S
"A longtime friend of Caltech, the Ahmanson Foundation has supported the Institute's capital projects, student financial aid, and endowment for academic research and a humanities fellowship...

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

"In the early 1980s, brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S's originator, Data Mark. The brothers Urosevich obtained financing from the far-Right Ahmanson family in 1984, which purchased a 68% ownership stake, according to the Omaha World Herald. After brothers William and Robert Ahmanson infused Data Mark with new capital, the name was changed to American Information Systems (AIS). California newspapers have long documented the Ahmanson family's ties to right-wing evangelical Christian and Republican circles".

"According to Group Watch, in the 1980s Howard F. Ahmanson, Jr. was a member of the highly secretive far-Right Council for National Policy, an organization that included Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, Major General John K. Singlaub and other Iran-Contra scandal notables, as well as former Klan members like Richard Shoff. Ahmanson, heir to a savings and loan fortune, is little reported on in the mainstream U.S. press. But, English papers like The Independent are a bit more forthcoming on Ahmanson's politics"

Ted Selker Associate Professor of Media Arts and Sciences
Group: Context-Aware Computing
Office: E15-323
Phone: (617) 253-6968
Fax: (617) 258-6264
E-mail: selker@media
addresses are formatted username@media.mit.edu
URL: http://www.media.mit.edu/~selker

Biography

Ted Selker heads the Media Lab's Context-Aware Computing group. His research has contributed to hundreds of products ranging from notebook computers to operating systems. He is known for the design of the "TrackPoint III" in-keyboard pointing device now found in Compaq, Fujitsu, HP, IBM, Sony, TI, and other computers; for creating the "COACH" adaptive agent that improves user performance (Warp Guides in OS/2); and for the design of the 755CV notebook computer that doubles as an LCD projector.


The curious source of the Caltech/MIT voting project website
Here's something you rarely see on a web site: An entire news article "hidden" on the page source as comments..
See for yourself: Click in this link http://www.vote.caltech.edu /
and try to view "source" or "Page source" on your browser..
Scrolling dow a bit, you should see this

After that line that clearly says "!-- / DELETE ME LATER" you can see the ENTIRE 2000 press release on their study on voter disenfranchisement in Florida.

So the source of http://www.vote.caltech.edu / includes this as comments :"!-- / DELETE ME LATER" and DOESNT SHOW the text below
A Preliminary Assessment of the Reliability of Existing Voting Equipment

July 16, 2001

Up to 6 million votes lost in 2000 presidential election, Voting Technology Project reveals

PASADENA, Calif.- Though over 100 million Americans went to the polls on election day 2000, as many as 6 million might just have well have spent the day fishing. Researchers at Caltech and MIT call these "lost votes" and think the number of uncounted votes could easily be cut by more than half in the 2004 election with just three simple reforms

To read the rest of the hidden report clean of "computer giberish" go to

http://www.texasturkey.us/backup/Nov2/Cal-tech_2001_ass...

We did our best, TRUST US e-vote petition from Cal-Tech/MIT vote project
"We did our best so you should believe us" is the gist of it. It got an "underwhelming" total of... less than 20 signatures!"

Friend sent that information over to me. Who's the texas turkey? Cal Tech MIT, Bay Point, and other university schools who were used in the 2004 kill democracy campaign }> }>

This is not a partisan issue folks, this is massive widespread crime that effects all of us. Period, and until pounded to the wall on all sides democracy is dead.

"Nothing is foolproof. Footprints are real."




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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Zero Footprints.......
Cybernet --Small PC manufacturer and maker of the space saving Cybernet Zero Footprint PC.



.....and what had I just read on bbv about leaving footprints?

I am googling names from these bbv blogs which is leading me to more names to google, and the oddness of what I am finding is starting to make me paranoid.

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RhodaGrits Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. the Michael Rubins' Bay State Schools- NeoCon connection:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Let's put that post here
Michael Rubin is the webmaster for the Bay Point School

Edited on Wed Nov-17-04 02:40 PM by AIndependentTexan
you can also google michael rubin webmaster and see what comes up

http://www.baypointschools.com/Computer

Michael Rubin the Older, Computer Science teacher at Baypoint

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/rubin/rubin.php

Michael Rubin the younger, rabid neo-con, promoter of Chalabi and the War in Iraq yadayada...

Compare the two pictures and biometrics and you will see that they must be related. His Father or Uncle perhaps...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
possible link of Baypoint with the neo-con cabal at the Pentagon and White House? And Jeb Bush makes a visit to the school accompanied by a group of people.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
along with Michael Rubin, a former AEI staffer who is also now at the Pentagon

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/01/12_405....
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The Administration was "very seriously" studying the possibility of military action against Iran, said Michael Rubin, a former US adviser in Baghdad who is a scholar at the conservative American Enterprise Institute in Washington.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/US-Elections/Bush-win-puts-U ...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Eleana Benador is one common denominatior among the neocons:

http://right-web.org/corp/benador.html

Michael Rubin is among her clients:

http://www.benadorassociates.com/rubin.php
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Transitional Director of Baypoint schools, receiving heavy finances

http://www.ycwa.org/stars/livanc.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------


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RhodaGrits Donating Member (688 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. When did the FBI seize the CyberNet computers etc.? n/t
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MI Cherie Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Wednesday am
See above local link
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shuffnew Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
53. Update CyberNET Group (Grand Rapids) Nov. 18, 2004
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 06:31 PM by shuffnew

(Updated: November 18, 2004; 4:15pm) URL below for full text:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2578803&nav=0R...
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CementDude Donating Member (75 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'm sorry, but you lost me when..
I read this from that BBV post you linked to..

quote - "...The Fisher story is most likely a correct, variable assessment and main report of what went on."

Fisher? Nah, I'll pass.

BTW - I think the author meant "viable" and not "variable".
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Fisher is NOT THE STORY here
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 10:16 AM by seemslikeadream
$11,545,000 for abuse

Medvin & Elberg get past statute of limitations
Insurers & licensers of newage* health care programs beware!story
*newage, one word rendition of New Age. It rhymes with sewage


Reverend Doctor Miller Newton has maintained his residence in Maidera Beach, Florida since leaving Straight. He once ran unsuccessfully for mayor. Now calling himself Father Cassian, he is being reported on by an organization that monitors abusive priests.

Newton settles with Lulu Corter for $6.5 million just before case was to go to jury dateline Newark, New Jersey July 8, 2003. This story will break your heart. After Dr. Newton fled Florida for abusing kids at Straight (though he has maintained his Maidera Beach residence all these years, even running unsuccessfully for mayor) he opened up his own second-generation Straight in New Jersey called KIDS of Bergen County. In 1989 after CBS' Meredith Vieira and West 57th Street did a story exposing the abuse at KIDS, and after Newark Judge Edith Klinger published a study recommending suspending KIDS license until certain problems had been fixed, Newton fled to neighboring Hudson County and changed the name to KIDS of North Jersey. In 1993 Secaucus Judge Emil DelBaglivo convicted three KIDS counselors for assaulting a client and recommended that someone look at Newton. In 1996 Newton settled with the federal government for $45,000 in return for not being prosecuted for 254 counts of insurance fraud. In 1999 another KIDS counselor was convicted for assault. Also in 1999 Dr. Newton settled with former client Rebecca Erlich for $4.5 million.

But nothing was ever done. In fact for 10 years Republican Governor Christie Whitman ignored Judge Klinger, Judge DelBaglivo, the newspaper and television reports. For 10 years Len Fisher, Governor Whitman's Commissioner of Health and Human Services, granted Dr. Newton a special certificate to operate.

Throughout all this time there sat a client in KIDS named Lulu Corter. Nobody remembers anymore what she went in for. But it was not drug addiction. Eventually Newton convinced her she had a sexual addiction. He forbade her to touch herself down there. They watched her toileting to make sure she did not touch herself. She was allowed but three wipes afterwards and was painfully restrained if she used four. They use to sing a song to Lulu. As best she can remember it went:

Lulu is here to stay
because she's in a blue chair
for seven years now
and she will rot more and more
till she makes a bigger change.

Lulu Corter went to Dr. Newton for help in 1984. She finally escaped 13 years later; totally destroyed. She had been on First Phase for almost five years. Lulu Corter's trial
more
http://thestraights.com/articles/newton-settles.htm

The Rebecca Erlich Story: the first printed book about theStraights
.
In 1999 Straight's former national clinical director Dr. Miller Newton and his team of psychiatrists settled with a former client named Rebecca Ehrlich for $4.5 million for the abuses she sustained at the Straight-legacy program Kids of North Jersey. Now Rebecca's mother Harryet has teamed with Rebecca's consulting psychiatrist Dr. Lewis Opler to publish Rebecca's medical nightmare. The book is Resurrection and Redemption: Overcoming Mental Illness and Regaining Dignity. The book is a well written account of the tragedy of a misdiagnosed little girl being treated in a quack medical facility.


THE BLUE CHAIR


http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/Wami1.rm
http://fornits.com/anonanon/video/Wami2.rm

http://www.kidsofelpaso.com/pages/626869/index.htm


from calmative
previous thread

Reality-based or Fiction



Perhaps Fisher's communications are nothing more than a distraction or some form of disinformation but the fragments are intriguing.

Mel Sembler was Bush I's ambassador to Australia, Bush II's ambassador to Italy, and a formar RNC finance chair. He also owns the Straight Inc run program Growing Together. Piotr Blass's son was in this allegedly abusive treatment program and only released with the help of Klock (to hush Blass?), the same lawyer who once represented Katherine Harris. The posting also notes that Sembler funneled money to Baypoint Schools through Klock. Interestingly, in 2003 Pieter Blass was a PROFESSOR of COMPUTER MATHEMATICS at Baypoint School according to the web posted CV. This is the very school that supposedly has a secret department of election engineering. And stranger still, Piotr Blass was a write-in candidate for FLA US Senator in this 2004 election. http://www.vote-smart.org/bio.php?can_id=MFL88959

Alas, Blass wasn't elected, but he claims to know how Bush won. If one could manipulate vote tallies by computer, then to define the magins to avoid over-reaching one would need access a database containing a list of living (and dead), registered (and non-registered) voters, their addresses, a record of their signature and yes, felony status. Accessing such a database would enable one to more safely stuff electric votes or old-fashioned paper ballots, including provisional and/or absentee.

How best to compile/CONTROL such an important and empowering list? According to Greg Pallast in Salon '02, the FLA registered voting list was initially scrubbed of felons by Database Technologies in '98 (a unit of company Choicepoint) under a no-bid $4 million contract. The year prior FLA spent just $5 thousand. Ahhh, those no bid contracts are the best. It seems Choicepoint is like a private sector provider of TIA (total information awareness) with profits of $700+ million last year. For example Choicepoint was given the contract and solemn duty of DNA matching the human remains of the victims of 9-11-01 and it offers the government and business services such as the "Patriot Act" package (not being sarcastic), background checks, and financial record info.

Tinfoil hat on? Check! Another plane crash.
http://www.choicepoint.net/choicepoint/news/feature0425 ...
>snip<
On April 1, 2002. Dan Rocco, a dear friend - and one of the senior statesmen of the ChoicePoint organization - died in the crash of his vintage airplane. Dan, an executive vice president who led ChoicePoint's Property & Casualty Insurance Commercial lines business, embodied the culture we value so strongly here at ChoicePoint. He made good things happen through sheer determination, hard work, and a passionate belief in this organization and its people. All of us miss him, and we're dedicated to carrying on Dan's legacy.
>snip<


from BamaBecky
prevouis thread

Dr Charles Figley is a well known FSU professor who has


conducted extensive research in trauma, child abuse. He has books out on Amazon.com. When I was at FSU he was also known for his work in PTSD. That's why it makes sense to me that Dr. Figley would know all about these so-called drug rehab places owned and operated by Republican Ambassador Sembler.


from BlackVelvet04
previous thread

Sembler has given hundreds of thousands


of dollars to the bush family.
http://www.wesfager.com/people/straight-officials/board...
"Sembler served as Finance Chairman for the Republican National Committee from 1997 to 2000. He also served as Florida's National Committeeman to the Republican National Committee after his election in 1994 until 2000. Prior to his appointment as Ambassador to Italy, Sembler was the Honorary Chairman of the Republican Jewish Coalition and Chairman of the Drug Free America Foundation, and served on the boards of the International Council of Shopping Centers, the Florida Governor's Mansion Foundation, and the Florida Holocaust Museum, and was a resident member of the Florida Council of 100, a business advisory group to the Governor of Florida."

http://sembler.com/MelSembler.php



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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. ahhhh! stop with the Blue Chair story it totally freaks me out
I'm gonna have nightmares about Lulu in the blue chair
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swati Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. Re the FBI seizing Cybernet's computer systems
Maybe I'm getting too paranoid but considering that for the past 4 years the FBI has helped promote all of the bushies anti-democractic stuff (harassing citizens for speaking out, anti-demonstrator activities etc), are we sure that the FBI isn't just helping "clean up" so no evidence is found ??? Are they on the good side or bad in this one?????
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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Oh no
I hope not!!!
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Verve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. That crossed my mind too. Surely, Bush hasn't been able to scrub
the FBI clean of ethical agents! Although, what he and Goss are trying to do to the CIA worries me.
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stirringstill Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Critical Mass of Proof
If indeed there was massive electronic manipulation of votes, then a direct assault has taken place against our nation and the people involved would be enemies of the state. If a critical mass of proof is reached, I am confident such an act would be aggressively pursued by the FBI. If fraud took place, every American's voice is in peril. But a critical mass of proof must be reached.

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GeoK Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. Can anyone find a connection with this document
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 10:21 AM by GeoK
I did a Google for "CyberNet Diebold" and came across this, but I don't know if it is significant. Can anyone access it to determin validity?

http://www.sec.gov/news/digest/dig012904.txt

<snip>

RECENT 8K FILINGS


Form 8-K is used by companies to file current reports on the following events:

Item 1. Changes in Control of Registrant.
Item 2. Acquisition or Disposition of Assets.
Item 3. Bankruptcy or Receivership.
Item 4. Changes in Registrant's Certifying Accountant.
Item 5. Other Materially Important Events.
Item 6. Resignations of Registrant's Directors.
Item 7. Financial Statements and Exhibits.
Item 8. Change in Fiscal Year.
Item 9. Regulation FD Disclosure.
Item 10. Amendments to the Registrant's Code of Ethics,
or Waiver of a Provision of the Code of Ethics.
Item 11. Temporary Suspension of Trading Under
Registrant's Employee Benefit Plans.
Item 12. Results of Operations and Financial Condition.

The following companies have filed 8-K reports for the date indicated and/or amendments to 8-K reports previously filed, responding to the item(s) of the form specified. 8-K reports may be obtained in person or by writing to the Commission's Public Reference Branch at 450 Fifth Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20549 or at the following e-mail box address: <publicinfo@sec.gov >. In most cases, this information is also available on the Commission's website:
<www.sec.gov >.

STATE 8K ITEM NO.
NAME OF ISSUER CODE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 DATE COMMENT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DIEBOLD INC OH X 01/28/04


There is more to this. Thanks

EDIT: Put "X" under 12. Put in link.
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Roger_Otip Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
28. it's genuine (on a .gov site) but don't think it's significant
it's saying on 1/28/04 diebold registered a change in "Results of Operations and Financial Condition" whatever that means. but no sign of cybernet on there.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
17.  CyberNet
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 10:54 AM by seemslikeadream
CyberNet Group Buys Ayala Data Center
November 15, 2004 -- (WEB HOST INDUSTRY REVIEW) -- Busines process outsourcing Firm the CyberNet Group (cybernet-usa.com) announced this week that it had acquired a 60 percent controlling interest in the AyalaPort Makati data center in the Philippines, taking over management of the facility, and renaming it CNG Global Data Hub.
http://thewhir.com/marketwatch/cyb111504.cfm

He alleged a conflict of interest between Hockenbrocht and Sparton board member Peter Slusser, a former director of Tyco International, and in their relationship to another company, Ann Arbor-based Cybernet System Inc.

http://www.mlive.com/businessdirect/stories/index.ssf?/...

In a series of articles originating at the Bush-friendly Media Research Center and its news reporting subdivision, Cybernet News Service or CNSNews.com, senior staff writer Jeff Johnson has exposed yet another dimension of TSA tyranny. In his article, Thousands of Pilots Wont Fly Armed Armed, Blame TSA, Johnson offers in his January 15th piece, The federal agency charged with providing security for U.S. airlines, and the airlines themselves are intentionally sabotaging the congressionally-mandated program to train and certify pilots who volunteer to carry guns in the cockpit, according to supporters of the program who claim tens of thousands of pilots have opted out as a result.

more
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Xz3RPLTEWvAJ:liber...
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. CREEPY cybernet....
I have googled myself into a spin. Not sure if this means anything, but I came across the name INLUMINENT while searching on cybernet...I dont know what inluminent is all about exactly, but when I searched CYBERNET AND inluminent OR Diebold and inluminent, all I can say is that it led to hacking sites and blogs, evangelical stuff, porn, online gam(bl)ing, AND online sales of prescription drugs.

I dont know what else to say
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bmoney07 Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Interesting
I think that needs more connections/research made

:D
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eowyn_of_rohan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. not me, I think I have gotten too much into the tinfoil hat club
I am so dumb about computers, I suppose anything will look weird if you try hard enough to find connections :tinfoilhat:
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Woo Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Jeff Fisher, I love that nutty guy
Good morning --

Well well -- things are starting to fit together eh? I've been saying for a week now that Jeff Fisher's story holds water-- whether it comes out or not -- I think we can quietly put together our own case that makes sense -- I'll begin to archive this information as some others will do as well just in case it's needed --

Jeff Fisher is reporting heart problems -- let's hope he's ok.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. Heart problems?
Can you say more? -- a LOT more? Is this sudden? Has he had a history, or a history of indicators? Do you know him personally, or perhaps are a FL resident and know more about him from that?

Please, tell all.
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. he has it posted on his website
Email response posted on website
To Kathryn Hedges
and anyone who reads this email response:

I am stating and will continue to tell the truth regarding election fraud in Florida and Ohio.

The people across the nation who have been lending my team assistance and myself are deeply disappointed with Mr. Nader's spokesman. One of our attorneys believes that this man didn't appreciate that he wasn't included in the phone call with Mr. Nader Saturday night. What's interesting is that he was included in the information that we emailed to him, Teresa Amato and
Marsha (last name unknown).

Already we have heard from other interested parties that would like to take the high road and put party politics aside. That is what I have been doing the entire time. The truth is a bitter pill for those who want to suppress it. I will not suppress the truth. America deserves the truth.

On Wednesday I started to have problems with my heart yet I will continue to stop the discrediting of my name and election fraud information. I have witnesses that Ralph Nader agreed to be in consultation with us. I have emailed the Nader camp the unedited (Non web) version of the letter to Ralph Nader, which revealed the name, email address and multiple phone numbers of
the sender.

I cannot explain why the Nader spokesman continues to want to state that Mr. Nader wasn't consulting with us regarding a statewide recount for Florida.

An American Patriot,
Jeff Fisher
http://www.jefffisherforcongress.com/Campaign2006/index...
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JD Lau Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm going to have to read through all this before I have a comment.
Looks almost like a Contra thing, doesn't it?
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ParanoidPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Creepy, looks a lot like the connections between the DRE vendors.......
........Just amazing what was found back when we first researched that. :scared:
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dewaldd Donating Member (185 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:26 PM
Response to Original message
24. There are multiple Cybernets--it might not be the right one..someone check
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KCS72000 Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. I think this is the one;
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Roger_Otip Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. i think it's this one
http://www.cybernet-usa.com - they're based in grand rapids
http://www.cybernet.com is based in ann arbor and is a small company
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vanboggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. kick
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 02:25 PM by vanboggie
:kick:
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heliarc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. CyberNET in Grand Rapids was raided
Not the one that is engaged in Weapons development...

To the best of my knowledge.
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corky44 Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. CyberNET is an age verification
service for inteernet porn sites- correct?

moral values?
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vanboggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Article on CyberNET raid
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 04:36 PM by vanboggie
http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ssf?/base/news-... ">
Multiple agencies, fraud history, yeah who knows. If they are after what we would hope I am sure they wouldn't reveal it to the local press, though. A Michigan CyberNet and the timing of the confiscations are intriguing though.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
29. Kick. Much to be digested and researched here.
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RedEagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. Kick! N/M
Kick!
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GDoyle Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
39. Umm, how about some proof?
There is a blanket assertion by some anonymous guy on an internet message board that the FBI raided some company? Well lets see some proof. I am a criminal law attorney. In order to do that, even nowadays, you need a warrant. Warrants are public documents issued by courts.

So lets see the warrant. Lets see a news story. Lets see some type of proof.

Then I'll begin to believe this. Until proven otherwise, it can't be considered a true allegation, i.e. an FBI raid.

GDoyle
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Umm articles have been linked all over

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2578803&nav=0R...

(Update, Grand Rapids, November 18, 2004, 4:18 p.m.) 24 Hour News 8 has uncovered some more information about a raid involving five agencies at The CyberNET Group building on South Division Avenue in Grand Rapids Wednesday morning.

http://www.mlive.com/news/muchronicle/index.ssf?/base/n...
CyberNET raided; company chief targeted
Thursday, November 18, 2004
CHRONICLE NEWS SERVICE

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ssf?/base/news-...
FEDS RETRIEVE DATA FROM COMPUTER COMPANY OFFICES
Thursday, November 18, 2004
By Barton Deiters
The Grand Rapids Press
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GDoyle Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Ok, thanks
That confirms the raid. Now how about some information that it has anything whatsoever to do with the election?

GDoyle
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vanboggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Doesn't
Just a possible tie-in. BBV referred to CyberNET Ventures,actually. But the timing mentioned coincides with this raid - also on a Michigan CyberNET. Info is simply here to digest, prove or disprove.

Company with fraud in its past, computer security and data storage services, and located in a highly Repug area. Rove was nearby on a recent Chimp visit too, just to add to the tin foil speculation. Circumstantial, but creates interest.

So far the only information known is in the media coverage which immediately makes the facts suspect, anyway.
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BlueDog2u Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. The connection is tentative and not well documented,
but allegedly real. Here is what the BBV poster said:

"Interestingly enough, Dr. Piotr Blass is not only significant and real, he has alot of resume background in Michigan state, and otherwise, is connected to a very interesting corporation known as CyberNET Venturs Inc.(which manages all of Cybernets divisions...)"


Blass is the individual mentioned by Fisher who allegedly had information regarding widespread fraud but was reluctant to come forward and share what he knew with Federal authorities. Therefore, if it is true that Blass has a connection to Cybernet, then the link is made and the crackdown on Cybernet would appear to be, quite likely, a consequence of Fisher's allegations.

details here: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.c...
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
45. CAN I GET A I WAS CORRECT!
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Important information about Neil Bush and Bush family
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I cannot seem to wrap my mind around all of this...
Do you really think the FBI in MI had something to do w/Fisher? I am just absolutely blown away! - don't get me wrong, I am trying to make my mind process this, and thanks AIndependentTexan!!
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. But CyberNet really is world wide
Grand Rapids is their headquarters but others are noted here

http://www.cybernet-usa.com/locations.asp

Regional Headquarters
AMERICAS DIVISION
Headquarters
The CyberNET Group
25 South Division Avenue
Grand Rapids, Michigan 49503
Tel: +1 616 913 9000
Fax: +1 616 913 2888
info@cng.net

Regional Headquarters

ASIA PACIFIC
AUSTRALIA
EUROPE, MIDDLE EAST, AFRICA
PHILIPPINES
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vanboggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Yes you get a correct
Edited on Thu Nov-18-04 05:36 PM by vanboggie
There's a common denominator.
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harmonyguy Donating Member (589 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
47. Cybernet & Diebold - someone had better explain this ...
But the most interesting part of all, is CyberNET's own interest in Diebold, and helping them out of some dirty circumstances...."

Maybe I've been looking at too many numbers lately, but the article cited in the link at the beginning of the thread, includes the words Diebold and Cybernet but having read the entire article (a court decision in the case of OPG and Diebold), I see nothing that supports the claim of Cybernet 'having an interest in Diebold', nor 'helping them out'.

This was challenged in the original thread, but so far there's been nothing more substantial.

What gives? Did I miss it, or are my eyes failing me?

HG
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Roger_Otip Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
51. and there are all these different cybernets
the one i think was raided in grand rapids is this one: http://www.cybernet-usa.com /

and i came to the same conclusion on that link - it just seemed to be the result of a google search where the page contained the words cybernet and diebold, but wasn't clear which cybernet and cybernet was only mentioned as an example case.

i'd like to know more about why there is supposed to be a link between the two, because at the moment i don't know what i'm looking for.
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Woo Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. COnfusing..
I'm really confused about this CyberNET connection -- BUT I THINK it's floating around on this forum somewhere -- the connection to Diebold has to do deal with databases that are built for elections -- isn't CyberNET the company that does that?

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...
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ewulf Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. It is!
I'm sorry to say, but this is definitely one of the least coherent, most confusing threads I've read so far. ( It reminds me of my thought processes that time, in the days after 9/11, when I went a little insane .) Maybe we all need to take a step back from this stuff for a while, stop performing random Google searches, and just collect ourselves. Some really bad, really real stuff happened on 11/2, and we need to bring it out, but if we get sidetracked investigating random, poorly worded posts on BBV's forum, rumors about property seizure that, if they were true, would probably be corroborated elsewhere, I think we'll end up wasting out very precious time. 12/13 is coming, fast, if we want a chance at proving fraud, and getting recounts while it still can help Kerry, maybe we should let this stuff sit.

Just my thoughts, again, no offense meant to anyone.
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MI Cherie Donating Member (682 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. From the local viewpoint ...
The FBI raid on CyberNET, a Grand Rapids, Michigan business, with fraud convictions and connections to several local businesses, is corroborated by local news reports:

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2578803&nav=0R...

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ssf?/base/news-...

This story is unfolding in my "backyard" and the tentacles appear to be much more far-reaching.

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harmonyguy Donating Member (589 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Undoubtedly interesting.....
but, I've yet to see ANYTHING that would corroborate the original posters' assertion of Cybernet's supposed interest in Diebold or their alleged assistance to Diebold, or, in fact, that they have anything whatsoever to do with voting systems, electronic or otherwise.

That said, it DOES sound like an interesting one.
HG
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
55. I think BBV should stay away from Fisher for now, just like us
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