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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:35 AM
Original message
Jeff Fisher story likely a Rove trap, so how do we prevent media blowup?
That story, and the timing of it, seems PERFECTLY designed as a lightning rod to make a mockery of all fraud allegations.

Jeff Fisher may be a perfectly good guy, but perhaps he has been setup.

Yet his comments will fit in a 30-second soundbyte on CNN, and will likely be brought up by right-wing pundits over and over as an example of the lunatic conspiracy theories.

Media will have a field day. What can we do to preempt it?
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Relax
just let it play out. Looks like nobody's doing much of anything with it here. Just keeping up, I think.
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Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. FACTs EOS

there is nothing u can do but catch the next wave...

push the FACTS...facts are the ONLY thing that will surf this tide....
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Rove traps are not complicated. THIS STORY IS!
Every single rove trap has been an unbelievably simple one. This is too complex and complicated.

THERE IS NO REASON TO DISCOUNT THIS STORY!
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. several reasons not to though
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. This seems pretty simple to me.
A democrat telling a crazy story about voter fraud.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. Bingo!
this, plus posts 14 and 15

If the mainstream media go with anything, this is going to be it.

(Please God, regarding all my thoughts lately, let them be wrong.)
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. I think I agree with Olberman's take...
November 16, 2004 | 8:30 p.m. ET

Oh Brother, Ohio, and O'Reilly (Keith Olbermann)

SECURE UNDISCLOSED LOCATION - Keep your aluminum foil hats at the ready.

The purported linking of failed Florida congressional candidate Jeff Fisher and Ralph Nader, trumpeted on Fishers website, is news to Naders spokesman Kevin Zeese.

Thats particularly troublesome for Mr. Fisher because it is to Zeese that the connection is attributed:

Kevin Zeese, the Fisher site reads, officially announced that Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader will be consulting with Jeff Fisher and Jan Schneider regarding the investigation of voter fraud and a statewide recount for the state of Florida.

When the nose-to-the-grindstone Countdown staff (as opposed to me, vacation boy) contacted Zeese, he said it was the first hed heard of any official announcement. Zeese acknowledges hed spoken to Fisher, and surmises, correctly I think, that Fisher (he lost in the Florida 16th) and Schneider (she lost in the 13th, to Katherine Harris) were trying to increase their credibility by tying their efforts to the Nader campaign. Given the pounding Naders gotten for four years, Zeese laughed out loud at the irony.

Fisher has been cited in many places as claiming he has firm evidence of deliberate computer-hacking in the Florida vote, and was awaiting FBI agents with whom he was to share it. Not to dismiss him or his claims, but the shows contact with him was not encouraging. He spoke vaguely of sources and whispered a lot.

Hell, Deep Throat from Watergate whispered a lot.

Then again, so does the guy who wanders around Columbus Circle claiming the government caused the Red Sox to win the World Series.

Well reserve judgment on Mr. Fishers claims - and keep them out of this space until and unless they have stronger legs. But the consulting role with Nader isnt the case, and bodes ill for Fishers other assertions.

Meanwhile in Ohio, its not exactly the lead story on Nightly News, but the verifying of the provisional ballots has gotten the attention of the most influential, and underrated, news source in the country - the Associated Press. It is from this wire service that most smaller newspapers and nearly all local and national radio and television news departments glean their national material (and from which, though theyd never admit it, most newspaper columnists, draw most of their data).

The AP reports that by yesterday, 11 of Ohios 88 counties had completed vetting the provisionals and that ten of the districts have accepted the validity of more than 90 percent of them. One - Belmont County (along the West Virginia border) - has tossed 42%, and nearing the halfway mark in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland), the election board there has accepted about two-thirds.

And this afternoon, the APs TV and radio columnist Frazier Moore wrote a withering satire of the post-election television political landscape, so much in the manner of Jonathan Swift that it has been forwarded to me by conservatives claiming it proves theres no reason to cover any voting issues. Generally speaking, mainstream silence seems to be passing: Sunday, the Hartford Courant printed an op-ed from the Associate Dean of the Yale Law School, Ian Solomon - one of those Democratic lawyers dispatched to Florida to watch the election - who suggested the monitors had been too busy verifying the paper ballots to pay attention to the prospect of computerized irregularities (thus, Dean Solomon admitted, I might have been an unwitting accessory to fraud.)

The Boston Globe plans a piece on the silence - which still seems more a case of media passivity than conspiracy - in the next few days. Even the Washington Times addressed it yesterday (albeit with the headline Anti-Bush Internet Site Angles For Election Probe) by focusing on MoveOn.orgs Investigate the Vote campaign. Jerrold Nadler of New York, one of six Democratic congressmen who demanded an investigation by the General Accountability Office in the days after the election, says now he anticipates a response from the GAO by the end of this week, and that could stir the pot a little further.

We may even have seen something of a reaction to this story on Fox News. There, our old loofah-wielding friend Bill OReilly is at it again, wandering further and further into semi-lucidity and self-contradiction. As reported by Brian Stelter over at TVNewser OReilly managed to put himself at direct odds with his own boss, Roger Ailes.

The Pew Research Center is out with which media was most trusted during the presidential campaign, OReilly stated Monday night. On the TV side, Fox News wins big Dead last was MSNBC, which was six percent of Americans trusting them. Obviously they have major problems over there.

As usual when dealing with the OReilly Fact-or-Fiction, he leaves himself so open to fact-checking on so many fronts, that its difficult to decide where to thrust the first sword.

Lets start with the Pew poll. Firstly, it had nothing to do with which media was most trusted - it only asked where people got most of their news on the election. And using Foxs own criteria - theyre right and everybody else ranges from liberal to treasonous - they were cited as the respondents primary source by 21%, compared to the NBC/MSNBC/CNBC combination (also 21%), and compared to the combined three broadcast network news departments (29%). The internet was also cited as a primary source by 21%, suggesting respondents were permitted to give more than one answer. This not only isnt Fox News wins big; using some of the same massaging of numbers OReilly is fond of, its not even Fox News wins at all.

Sorry about that massaging reference to OReilly in there. Poor choice of words.

Most intriguingly, OReillys employer, Mr. Ailes, recently dismissed the company that did the survey OReilly trumpeted so loudly. In its recent piece on the network, The New York Times noted that Pews June survey reported that 41 percent of Fox News viewers identified themselves as Republicans, and 52 percent of them called themselves Conservatives.

Roger Ailes then told the paper that the Pew Research Center had produced a totally fraudulent survey done by a bunch of liberals.

So OReilly is reduced to relying on a polling company that his boss believes traffics in totally fraudulent surveys, to altering the questions posed by that company to fit his own boasts, and to accepting those numbers he likes from that polling and ignoring the ones he doesnt.

Sounds like somebody hasnt had a good falafel in awhile.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. Olbermann just outed Fisher as a liar. Why would anybody believe anything
else Fisher says?
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
6. no need to preempt
The only thing we can really do is shrug and say I understand he's reported some evidence to the FBI, it's in their hands now.

And if pushed to comment further: "I don't know enough details to comment intelligently on the actual case, but after doing some research into that Sembler fellow, he sounds pretty unethical, and it's beyond me why Jeb and Dubya seem so supportive of him."

No matter what happens with Jeff, Sembler's bio reads like he's spent his life working on his own smear campaign.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
7. We don't - let it be their story, not ours, let them have it.
Oh those crazy network-cable conspiracy theories.
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Copperred Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. These people are a bit nutty....
Edited on Wed Nov-17-04 12:47 AM by Copperred
both of these people are HIGHLY unprofessional....
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neohippie Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
9. Once we have some solid evidence instead of suspicion it won't matter
Hopefully, What Bev Harris uncovered today, in Volusia County,FL may lead to some solid, undeniable evidence of fraud.

Then it won't matter how far out there some of the conspiracy theories are, because there will be real proof.

I said earlier that that Fischer story stinks of Rove, because, it just seemed to come too easily. But, I have to admit it is like my favorite band, moe.'s song "Stranger Than Fiction"
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. My fear is that Rove's media manipulation is so good that
he will get Fox and all the pundits talking about it; and they will bury Bev's REALITY with this FANTASY.

It SHOULDN'T matter "how far out there some of the conspiracy theories are, because there will be real proof." But in this surreal media environment, I tend to think a wacko conspiracy story could be made to cast a very long shadow.
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truehawk Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. It is not a fantasy
I remember seeing the peice about disconnecting the modems and driving the memory cartriages to the central tabulator before the election.

I just did not know it was from Jeff Fisher's site.

These people create reality so strange no one will believe it knowing that no one is going to believe it.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Bev's not working with Jeff
She's got her own thing going on and it doesn't involve him.
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JoMama49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. Go Public Loudly?
The DJ is telling Jeff Fisher to go public and go to the largest media sources he can -- that that is the safest thing to do. I'm not sure about that. Wouldn't it be more prudent to wait until he has actual proof of fraud, and then ask Kerry/Edwards to unconcede? Kerry unconceding will draw the media in droves. There may be no need to go public yet, and it may tip them off too soon. What do you'all think?
JoMama.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. X Files Election...
This thing is becoming more and more like an X files episode. Spooky Mulder from florida.
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floridadem30 Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Well I think the hundreds of stories of voter problems on early votes
in florida, and the hundreds of complaints by citizens of cagelisting, and the complaints filed with the fl dept of state about illegal registrations being filed, the machines not counting early votes before election day, and the several machine malfunctions reported throughout the state when votes were cast would be sufficient enough to at least investigate the state of FL and this all happened before election day and was in the media.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Hi JoMama49!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. It's good to see more people here at DU are seeing this guy for what he
is. I can't believe how many people here fell so easily for this guy's babbling nonsense. He's a name-dropping publicity seeker covered in tin foil from head to foot (with a rabbit-ears antenna on top).

It's not good to see that Olbermann has picked up on Fisher. This might be the one story that the rest of the mainstream media picks up, just to have a good laugh at those wacky conspiracy theorists who think the election was fixed.

I think we shouldn't do anything to give this guy any more attention than he can manage to get for himself. Fisher so far has produced absolutely nothing in way of evidence. If he has what he claims he does, he should be able to find someone in law enforcement or the mainstream media to help him make his case.

With Bev and Andy and the rest of the BBV people kicking ass and taking names, I would hate to see Fisher become the media's poster boy for our cause.
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truehawk Donating Member (797 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. It is laughable, .....Ment to be ....Think a little
about prisions and the Bushes, the techniques of breaking someone down and brainwashing them, and what happened in Texas prisons while Bush was governer, and who you would have more control over etc.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Yup !
"Nibble" at the bait, folks... don't swallow it. Yes, I said "bait" and there's tons of it being posted in the DU. Read Carefully! Be Alert! Be Skeptical! Ask Questions!
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stirringstill Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. Premature to dismiss
Get past hacking juveniles. Pietr Blass, one of the source's of Fisher's claims, was employed at this school. Look at his CV.

http://www.floridian.biz /

Is this the CV of a high school teacher? Is it his real CV? Some elements appear to check out at least in terms of publications and former places of work. He was not hired at Bay Point in '03 to run a high school computer lab.

Bay Point Schools has close ties to Klock (Katherine Harris attny.) and Sembler (former RNC finance chair) and thus to the Bush brothers. Bay Point Schools has a couple of campuses and has received a lot of money for computers etc. (Hypothesis/speculation: Money directed at Bay Point could have been masking the employ and necess. equipment purchases tasked to controlling an election.)

Karl Rove may love dirty tricks. Remember the Rather letters. Content of the letters was likely accurate, the type face just wasn't. I do not know if this Fisher narrative is real or some form of dissemination, but it is premature to dismiss it as a Rove trick.


(snip-from CV linked above)

Pietr Blass

Education
Ph.D. University of Michigan, 1977
M.A. Harvard University, 1976
M.A. University of Michigan, 1969
B.A. (equivalent) Warsaw University, 1968
Family

Professional Experience
2004- Professor of Computer Mathematics at Keiser Career College in South Florida.
Implementing state of the art school for professional students. Presiding over Ettinger University for staff development. The School is well known in Florida as one of the best career schools in the state.

2003- Professor of Computer Mathematics at Baypoint Schools in South Florida.
Implementing state of the art school for teenagers at risk. Presiding over Ettinger University for staff development. The School of sponsored by the Governor of Florida as one of the best in the country.

Chief Architect, Alenet Inc. Miami, Florida. Designed and constructed a complete CRM system using PHP and Mysql. Several major contracts resulted from this work.


2001- Computer Science, Florida Atlantic University, Devry University Orlando

Teaching the class of Data Base, Principles of Software Engineering and Data Structure and Algorithms


Chief Architect, Zeosync Inc. Data Compression, Financial Software, Controlled Fusion

Research. Video on Demand, HDTV. Simultaneously teaching Software Engineering and Data structures classes at Florida Atlantic University as well as Mathematics classes at Broward Community College. Several patents are in progress. Developed software for Time Warner AOL and for Sony. Lead a group of developers including top national and international experts in data compression, financial computing and controlled fusion research. Multimillion-dollar revenue for the company resulted. Chairman of Zaamen Inc a newly established industry leader.


2000- Chief Scientist, Grasshopper Central Inc.

Distance learning universal patented software. Web enabled courses and universities. National

Traffic Safety Institute course for all fifty states. SQL Server 2000, ASP, Cold Fusion, E Commerce, XML.Data Warehousing and Data Mining. Assured a long-term multimillion-dollar contract for the company with NTSI. Coded data driven Search Engine software. Responsible for a team of developers, academic consultants, visual artists and business leaders working on creating, testing and implementing the proprietary educational software. Developed a new proprietary web highlighter using MFC. Implemented web enabled asset allocation and options trading software. Designed a proprietary inventory control system.

1999- Senior Developer, Claimcard, Inc.

Stored Value Card Authorization. Data Warehousing SQL coding, OLTP and OLAP Systems design and implementation. Created a system with several million credit cards on line. Database tuning. Index tuning. Query optimization. Normalization Issues resolved. Constructed from scratch a complete data warehouse using SQL Server 7 OLAP tools.

Used ROLAP, MOLAP and HOLAP techniques. Radical simplification of the system resulted from this work. Considerable revenue and recognition for the company followed. Used Platinum ERWIN tool for data modeling and presenting the terabytes of data necessary for this project

1998 - Chief Technical Officer and Database Administrator, Airtime Technologies, Inc.

Designed and coded a proprietary SQL 7.0 database for POS Transaction processing. Interface with Verifone terminals and printers. This system is currently processing up to a million transactions daily. It is flexible enough to accommodate a variety of terminal loads and to sell a large selection of products such as cellular phones, calling cards, foreign exchange cash cards, etc. Patent is pending. The system is also implemented using Oracle and UNIX environment. Created, coded and delivered a complete reporting system for merchants, carriers and ISOs.


1998 Systems Analyst and Senior Developer, ADT, Inc.

Implementing CORBA Solutions in the context of a very large ORACLE database. Testing financial interface with Melon Bank. Tools used were IDL, PS/SQL, C++, Developer 2000, and FTP Servers, UNIX Shell scripts.

1998 Senior Developer, AIE, Inc.

Developed a system applicable to lotteries and options trading. Three tier architecture including an MS SQL 7.0 database, IIS Server, ASP, ISAPI programming, seamless integration with Macromedia. and Shockwave multimedia interface. Considerable revenue resulted, several patents are pending.

1998 Webmaster, Search Engine Analyst, Director of Scientific Marketing Research,
Web Marketing, Inc.

Designed and developed Websites for a variety of products and companies and maximized web traffic by developing a proprietary analytical statistical tool focused on the AltaVista and Infoseek Search Engines. Considerable increase in web traffic was achieved. Daily work with Windows 98, MS Office 97, PFT, UNIX web servers. Multiple Statistical Regression tools, clustering analysis tools and web traffic analysis software.


1998 Database Project Director, Bank Rate Monitor, Inc.

Designed an industry wide database to describe the entire financial industry in the U.S. including BRM Publications, Financial Institutions, and Financial Products. The database is being implemented using SQL Server 6.5, Visual Interdev 6.0, Visual FoxPro 6.0, Visual Studio 6.0, Visual C++ 6.0, J++ 6.0, and Visual Basic, 6.0. Coordinated a seminar of users and database administrators. Added new products such as variable annuities, exchange rates to BRM products. The database is producing for example for Federal Reserve, New York Times, Kiplingers, Money Magazine, etc. Created proprietary asset allocation software. Performed statistical studies of bank concentrations. Developed new timing and scheduling implementations. Coordinated training of students by BRM from top universities and high schools.


1998 Director of Engineering, Click Flood Express, Inc.

Developing a system for electronic commerce nationwide in scope. Distributed databases. Verisign credit card security Internet faxing gateways. Coordinating work with subcontractors. Access Crystal Reports, Cold Fusion, Active Server Pages, Actibase, Oracle, JavaScript, VB Script, Java, JDBC, ODBC, and Database normalization and optimization techniques are among tools used. Organized scientific advisory board including top scientists. Active in shareholder relations and fundraising for the company. Worked closely with artists and webmasters to maintain artistic appeal of the GUIS multimedia, streaming video, streaming audio and advertising tickertape were employed with state of the art compression methods. Designed an event tracking method for advertising and accounting purposes.

1998 Director of Computer Science, Digital Crossover Systems DXO

Development of the backbone structure for a large telephone and data network. Utilizing PBX, ADSL, ATM and compression techniques. Design of global routers and other aspects of the network topology. Coding in C, C++, UNIX, PSOS, and Linux. Programming microcomputers and chips. Coordinating scientific advisory board collaborating with local phone contractors and with Sprint scientists. Effective fundraising work for the company.


1997 Developer and Project Manager, Galacticomm, Inc.

Developing a Web enabled database super system, Actibase, based on ODBC, Visual C++, Data Base SDK, and Visual Basic. Production Manager for Actibase. An application to catalogues and finance. Work with major companies including AT&T, Simon & Schuster,
and Standard & Poor. Techniques used include ISAPI, Active HTML, CGI, Cold Fusion,
advanced SQL, Borland C++, Microsoft and Netscape Browser, IIS, Windows 95, NT and 98, Oracle. Writing an Actibase White Paper. Lead Actibase education work. UNIX administrator.


1997 Professor and Coordinator, Coordinating a Seminar for IBM

Sound Compression, Multicasting, Visual Basic Database Applications, Lotus Notes, Electronic Journals, Supercomputers, Parallel Processing, Data Warehousing,
Industry Wide Databases, Artificial Intelligence.

1997 Developer and Director of Research, Pipedreaming, Inc.


Developing a new patented broadcasting system for the Internet. Data compression, TCP/IP, C, C++ programming, Mathematica, and database development. JAVA development, HTML, Web pages.


1997 Systems Analyst, Atlas Audiotex, Inc.


Computer Technology. Programming in C, C++, Visual Basic, SQL Server 6.5, FoxPro. Developed joint computer telephony projects with major multinational companies GTECH, SPRINT. Considerable revenue resulted from this work.


1995 Senior Programmer, Pension Research Institute

Developed and designed Asset Allocation software to be used by a major Michigan bank. New proprietary techniques created and introduced. C, C++, Visual Basic programming. Major investors currently use the software.

1995 Professor, Palm Beach Community College

1993 Senior Analyst, Noble Investments, Inc.

Asset Allocation software, trend prediction software.
This work is in progress as we develop collaboration with Standard & Poors headquarters.

1993 Consultant, Florida National Bank Developed consumer loan software for the bank. C, C++, Visual Basic and oracle programming.

1991 Consultant, Teledata, Inc. Software for measuring effects of oil leaks at gas stations. EPA approved product. UNIX development.

1989 Editor in Chief, Ulam Quarterly Journal
(snip)

His CV goes on.

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GDoyle Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Backwards.....
Don't you think the reason a kook like Fisher (and lets assume for a moment he is) focused on the school was because of Klock and Sembler's ties to it? See, with nuts, they work backwards. Your taking it at face value....Fisher stumbled on some evidence and, whoa, guess what, where that evidence leads actually goes back up the chain to Jeb Bush! Unreal, huh?

The answer is no, it isn't. See loons start at then end and build their conspiracy backwards. That way, it seems to make sense and has the logical ties they're looking for.

I wouldn't read too much into the Klock and Sembler connections unless some hard evidence is found. Otherwise, its just a convenient ending point for a nut. He could have picked to end his story anywhere...Diebold CIS department, Halliburton, Jenna Bush's favorite saloon, whatever. We need evidence for it to have any credibility, not just pre-arranged fake "coincidences"

GDoyle
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. Wow, he's had more jobs than O'Reilly! (n/t)
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neohippie Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. I have a friend who works with juvenile justice in FL.
She told me that she would be surprised that anything like this could go down at Baypoint. She told me that they weren't the brightest bulb on the tree when it came to getting data to her, she mentioned that they always seemed challenged by technology.

She also said that while Baypoint is one of the state run programs, it is not run by Sembler, it is run by some other woman. And that the Growing Together program(Sembler's) where Blass's son was supposedly kidnapped by Klock, was not under state contract

She was skeptical, but was going to try and look into this further.

She did say that a few years back somebody left the school and when they did, they torched their computer systems though, which she thought was interesting. She also said that she would be surprised if that program had an MIS director as she could never speak with anyone down there who seemed to understand computers or statistics. She told me she would be down there at the Baypoint program in the near future.

She also said that the woman who runs the program is heavily in bed with Republicans in Florida.

I am still waiting to hear back from her on this matter.
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AnIndependentTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. Keep this story going. READ AND LEARN MY FRIENDS
New information about it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Important information about Neil Bush and Bush family
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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Woo Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. Not so fast...
Edited on Wed Nov-17-04 03:33 AM by Woo
I say the road to White House is finding proof -- you're going to get evidence no easier with demanding recounts than you will with the Fisher story -- but in the end... either might prove the case for fraud -- I say there is room for both paths -- The good news is we really don't have to do anything with the Fisher story, we just have to sit back and wait... and oh boy this story, if true will be worth the pay off.

On the other end -- there's the proactive approach, statistical models, recounts, and plain luck as in the FL case today... it's moving a bit slow for my taste, but tis all we can do at the moment -- I'm just hoping the clock doesn't run out, we can't let B* take the oath of office.

The media will cherry pick the stories they want to tell -- if it's Fisher's... than so be it -- I doubt it will hurt other efforts. Anyway, outside these blogs... not too many people seem to believe us anyway -- at least not in the media.

So, if this guy Fisher is on the up and up about his story --For all you people callin' the man a kook without even waiting for it to play out... I'm going to take great pleasure in returning here and proclaiming -- 'nanner nanner nanner' -- figure no one will mind too much... we would have won.

Keep the faith... let his story play to the end, if there's nothing there... so be it.

Add: See, look at his website -- he was on the radio... in um... Ireland

And he left the number of the nice FBI agent that interviewed him on his website -- (remind me not to send this man my number) I think his attempt at transparency gets him the loon label, but ah well.
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bluetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Jeff Fisher has not produced any proof at all
Why, if he's so eager to make everything else (all the allegations, people's private phone numbers, etc.) available to the masses has he not offered up one single shred of verifiable proof?

Maybe it's because he doesn't have any.
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