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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 12:09 AM
Original message
Internet conspiracy theorists, take a bow. The Great WahPoo Acknowledges U
Edited on Sun Jan-22-06 12:21 AM by Wilms


As Elections Near, Officials Challenge Balloting Security

In Controlled Test, Results Are Manipulated in Florida System


By Zachary Goldfarb

Special to The Washington Post

Sunday, January 22, 2006; Page A06

snip

Questions about the security of electronic voting machines have been circulating widely in recent years. But many of the concerns have been dismissed as the fantasies of Internet conspiracy theorists or sore-loser partisans who could not accept that their candidates simply got fewer votes. Critics have not demonstrated that any real elections have had returns altered by the manipulation of electronic voting systems.

But the questions raised by Sancho, who has held his post since 1989, show how the concerns are being taken more seriously among elections professionals.

snip

"You have to admit these systems are vulnerable and act accordingly," Hursti said.

snip/grin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...


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AtLiberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. GLORY!
!!!!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Yea for the TinHats!

Finally we are being appreciated!

It always fascinates me that after all these years of watching the crime family in action,Americans,including Democrats, refuse to rap their minds around the idea that just maybe they could actually be THAT EVIL.

There are just not that many "coincidences."


:tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce:
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Yes, every glitch favored Bush but the Dems do it too-Baloney
What did the Dems do, try to register new voters, raise money and get the vote out,
there was no widespread Dem victories so what did the Dems "steal" - it's all baloney,
the Dems did not do it, election fraud is a crime and those that practiced it in 04 should
be accountable even if they are the governor of their state.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Hello from California ~

This tin hat is not really sure that Arnold won AT ALL.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. you are probably right
I really don't see the California voter embracing Arnold to govern them. I believe that time will prove that 2004 was a complete hoax. Bush only had a small base, which is
why they had to keep the public out of his "town hall" meetings. I noticed that the
cmaeras were so close to the crowd that you could count the nose hairs of his supporters,
I rarely saw long shots. This will go down as the great hoax election. I think it was
the "rise of the machines" financed by dirty money and our tax dollars.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. Interesting thought, and I agree n/t
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
49. Amen, and more will be revealed...of course MSM will try to
claim the fruits of others before them!
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feelthebreeze Donating Member (570 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. I am stunned. Now the question begs to be asked...
why are they now reporting it? What has changed? Don't get me wrong, I will celebrate this amazing event. But still, after a year of hard line stone walling, why now? Do you think they feel safe? I am so torn, so perplexed.
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Libby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. What's changed is, the repuke asses on the line.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
41. Right on brotha
werd


Educate a Freeper Today!
Buttons, Stickers and Fridge Magnets made in America for brainy people
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13


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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Now if the Honest
Democrat's and Republican's would get on board immediately with this story, and challenge each other to hand counted paper ballots for the next three or more election cycles because of this hack, it would make me proud of both sides :patriot:
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Because they'll just insert other machines saying they
are okay, there problem solved....but they'll still be controlled by the Corporate Machine that is backing the currant administration....this is just to shut us up, because they see we are being heard and people are talking...
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shimbo Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. Conspiracy Theory In America
Sometime in 1996-7, I noticed a lot of talk about conspiracies and it's clear that the Oklahoma City bombing set a conspiracy meme in motion that permeates our culture....

http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entry=cons...



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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Suspected conspiracy is a preferable phrase
Edited on Sun Jan-22-06 12:17 PM by teryang
The meme "conspiracy theory" is a propagandist's manipulative tool for the unwitting mass mind. It's purpose is to transfer the stigma associated with the word "conspiracy" from the suspected parties to the person who dares to suspect them. It also demeans any rational inspection of suspected wrongdoing, with an implicit ad hominen attack. The classic example is the George I rejoinder "I'll bet you believe Elvis is still alive, too." A similar mechanism is at work when party faithful label critics or dissenters in public dialogue as unpatriotic and giving aid to the enemy.

Machiavelli endorsed and recommended the Roman practice of putting to trial and punishment any citizen who slandered a public official. Unfortunately for the neo fascist Straussian neo-cons who worship Machiavelli, we have the First Amendment. Thus if there is any factual evidence in support of an allegation of conspiracy against a public official, it may not be punished or sanctioned. That doesn't stop the accuser from being pilloried in the press on a daily basis by the corporatist propaganda machinery.

Adultery may be prosecuted (rarely, except perhaps under the UCMJ) because is an illegal action. Cheating on your wife is not necessarily a conspiracy where adultery is a crime, because the marital status of either party may not be mutually known. Lack of knowledge by third parties is not an element of the offense. A spouse could consent to adultery by a partner and it still could constitute a crime where it is so defined as criminal. Hypothetically, everyone could know that Cheney furthered the bombing on 911 before and after the fact, or that BMI mailed anthrax to congressional opposition and potential press opponents but that doesn't make those events any less a conspiracy.

Conspiracy is a specific intent crime, requiring meeting of the minds to advance some criminal purpose plus some intentional effort or omission in aid of that cause, rather than just knowledge of the existence of a conspiracy. Conspiracy sometimes consumates its criminal goal but is essentially an inchoate offense and doesn't not have to consumate its criminal goal to be a crime, in itself.

Thanks for posting. The graphic was very interesting.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. BIG FUGGIN' KICK and RECO!!!!!
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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Surya Gayatri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
8. K & R
And the unravelling of the skein of deceit continues--thank God for those "tinhat conspiracy theorists", many of them here on DU, who've kept pounding away on this. SG
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kiteinthewind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
10. My tinfoil hat is glowing!!!
:kick:
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SittingBull Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
11. Really?
Questions about the security of electronic voting machines have been circulating widely in recent years. But many of the concerns have been dismissed as the fantasies of Internet conspiracy theorists or sore-loser partisans who could not accept that their candidates simply got fewer votes. Critics have not demonstrated that any real elections have had returns altered by the manipulation of electronic voting systems.



What a BS-propaganda. many concerns have been dismissed...

Really? Show me just one real fact that proves that the concerns have been rightfully dismissed. First: You never search for it, till today you even never mentioned it, apart from very few reports with the abuse of "conspiracy theorists" shortly after the vote.
Second: We have the Exit Poll discrepancy, the Conyers report, and the GAO-Report, and Mark Crispin Millers "Fooled again", Blackboxvoting.org, the test that you mentioned, and there were indeed well explained and documented concerns. Which one of these were dismissed as "fantasies"?


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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. can I be both a tin hat conspiracy theorist and a sore loser Dem
it feels good to multi-task

:-)
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Higans Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. Agreed, In order to dismiss something you must acknowledge that
it exists. So far the press hasn't even done that. they can't show you one case of a concern being dismissed, because in order to dismiss something you must first acknowledge that the concern has been expressed.
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. No kidding.
And on top of that, the next line kills me:

"Critics have not demonstrated that any real elections have had returns altered by the manipulation of electronic voting systems."

It is not possible to demonstrate that real election returns have or have not been altered, simply because there is no record! All we have is the exit polls, and the people who's votes showed * instead of Kerry, and the long lines, and....



:argh:


Bill
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
12. K & R
Edited on Sun Jan-22-06 11:23 AM by riqster
They are still trying to soft-pedal it, but it is getting discussed as a valid issue, and that makes a lotta difference.

Note the dodgeball move here:
"Jenny Nash, a spokeswoman for Florida's secretary of state, said in the end the integrity of any voting system must be protected by the local officials who administer elections. "Machines are designed and certified to operate in a secure environment and under secure procedures that each supervisor puts in place and follows directly," she said."

Notice this...the manufacturer is not responsible, nor are the Feds or the State. It is the local yokel that had these crammed down his or her gullet that is responsible for security. How nice.....
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well how about that. I like it. Recommended. I will buy the Post today.
Edited on Sun Jan-22-06 11:35 AM by autorank
I have not said that since 1988. I'm a Post loather but I'll forgive them instantly if they take this and other legitimacy issues and run with it.


Excellent

On edit: For those of you out there who fail to take "conspiracy" theories seriously, please do this: find a lawyer, police detective, or prosecutor; ask them how many major crimes, particularly those involving large sums of money, involve a "conspiracy." Then you'll understand that when

ELECTION FRAUD OCCURS IT'S A CRIME.

WHEN IT'S A CRIME OF SIGNIFICANCE, IT INVOLVES MULTIPLE PEOPLE BREAKING THE LAW.

THERE F'ING FORE, ELECTION FRAUD IS ALMOST ALWAYS A CONSPIRACY WHEN IT OCCURS.

Thus endeth the lesson...

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. It looks like the Cabal's control of the media is
wobbling a little. Or, of the print press anyway.

In a way, I don't care as long as the word gets out. In another way, it seems important to know what the heck is going on.

The last time I checked, of the top 10 papers, only the NYTs actually had an increase in their readership in the last quarter and it was tiny. I don't know how to check about ad sales.

But, the latest shift seems more a part of being threatened with the Justice Department over the NSA story. I think the big papers are fighting back a little.

That doesn't mean they're suddenly on our side; but, it could mean they will be more overtly resistant to Bush World until the spat is straightened out.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. It's all part of the "Management" Civil War
Bush needs to go, sensible people know that including the uber wealthy and wealth managers, for the most part. They're fighting the Texas Oil Cabal, including the BFEE. Those folks smoke something enabling them to believe that they'll really be able to steal the Iraqi oil...oh sure, gonna happen, right.

The back and forth on issues has been less than thrilling. Fitzgerald's, through "will to power," has tilted things for a bit. Now, today on McLaughlin, we hear 10 minutes on impeachment with the host praising the Gore speech and Gore himself. The panel denies it, except Clift, but who cares. He's got a dumb panel and likes to humiliate them (except Clift).

Now this in the Post. The IMPEACHMENT question (McLaughlin) and the LEGITIMACY question (Post Sancho story).

Now that LEGITIMACY is on the table, it's a wild card. Will we get a whistle blower that they'll listen to? Will we get an elections official or perpetrator of fraud who speaks up and has proof?

It's a great story unfolding. Hopefully we'll be able to threat the needle and avoid both sides of "management" battling it out AND restore some democracy to this country.

In the mean time :popcorn: let them just knock the snot out of each other ;)
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. We need a whistleblower
I agree, we need someone who will speak out about how they stole the elections, someone to speak before the upcoming 2006 elections! Otherwise, I fear the Repubs will still be in office in 2007.
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SittingBull Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. With Clint Curtis
we have already a man who blowed the whistle.

http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-00...
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. I have heard of Clint Curtis, but
I want someone to come forward who will say they worked for Ken Blackwell in Ohio and here's how Ohio was stolen in 2004.

I want someone spill their guts, how exactly was election switched from Kerry to Bush at 11:30 pm on election night in 2004!
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SittingBull Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I fear
that there were only very few people involved, so that there maybe is nobody to blow the whistle.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. The Great WaHo has spoken.
:toast:
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
19. Praise the Lord, brother and sister conspiracy theorists! It's a miracle!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Finally the TRUTH is getting out ~ Bravo Amaryllis
The conspiracy that is over riding is the way that the vast right wing spins the brains of non tin hatters to believe anything they say.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: 's are not stuck on stupid, we just choose to not eat the transparent baby food that they feed us.

Surprise ~ there are no WMD :tinfoilhat: :bounce:

DIEBOLD owned the 2004 election :tinfoilhat: :bounce:

AND

there is such a thing as a VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY! :tinfoilhat: :bounce:

That is the CONSPIRACY that we need to focus on

:tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce: :tinfoilhat: :bounce:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Yeah!
Edited on Sun Jan-22-06 03:06 PM by sfexpat2000
Questioning that election was one of the hardest things I've ever done -- a set that includes childbirth, graduate school, managing major family mental illness and functional homelessness. It was harder than raising teenagers alone. It was harder than learning English in the first grade.

But, I really, really HATE creamed carrots.

:rofl:

:applause: :applause: :applause:
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kicketty kick!
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. Someone needs to hack a real election ...
so that several machines tally 14 million for the Republican and 10 for the Democrat.
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. Do you think taft and the rest of the Ohio repugs read the Post?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Because OH was make key in 2004, I'd be surprised if
they didn't get a phone call warning them that this article was coming out.

I'd be REALLY surprised.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
27. Wow, can we take off our tinfoil hats now?
:tinfoilhat: We're not "crackpots" anymore? :eyes: We're not loony, conspiracy theorists anymore? :shrug:

Rats, I wore my :tinfoilhat: like a badge of honor! :mad:

Now, since someone in the "mainstream" news has mentioned it, will anyone actually DO anything about it before the Republicans steal their way to more victories this November? THAT is the BIG question.
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm keeping mine on....
I kinda like the way it looks. :+ :tinfoilhat:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. Very sexy.
And so very well done.

:toast:
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samhsarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Why thank you!
:toast:
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. I'll put my tin hat on and predict
Edited on Sun Jan-22-06 05:00 PM by goclark
that the Crime Family will try to steal the election, in 2006!

While people are running around saying,"No way would they try that one," I say they not only will try, they will win if we don't stop them.


The only way to stop them is to think like they do -----

Be BOLD and SAY EXACTLY WHAT YOU KNOW TO BE TRUE...

Say they run the congress like a plantation!


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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
34. Now if only DU would recognize us
It really upsets me that we cant talk conspiracies here anymore. Because OBVIOUSLY there is a need for it.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Wouldn't that be thrilling!

Just think,we could be way ahead of this mess if we could only keep our little hats on.

Guess we will have to continue to sit and wait until the Washington post, the NYT or the all mighty Tweety allows us to think again.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. I didn't know we couldn't talk conspiracies?
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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #42
45. I saw a thread that was locked by the mods
saying that we could no provide links to conspiracy theorist webpages, thsi particular thread was about weather control.

I was shocked so i read the link the mod had posted and it was definitely right there.

My THEORY is that is was GannonGate that shifted this rule change.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-22-06 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
40. I just refuse to be a coincidence theorist. The burden is too great.
Hence I use my common sense.

You don't need a degree in chemistry to smell sour milk.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #40
44. "You don't need a degree in chemistry to smell sour milk." Oh, so true!!!
Well, stated, my friend; very well stated :toast:


Peace.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #44
50. But some people can't smell the milk

unless the MSM tells them it is OK to smell and the MSM ain't in our corner right now.

That is the shame of it all.

Tin Hats are not brilliant, you are correct.


We just don't take every damn thing at face value. :)
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-23-06 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
43. K&R and # 48: Dear Gov Dean -- Bush's Illegitimate Presidency
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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
51. Yes, they're a dollar short and a day
late, and they did bury the heart of the story past the midway point

BUT, Yes, Finally, I probably put my adorable tin foil hat back into the closet.

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