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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:16 PM
Original message
Leon County dumps Diebold!!! BBV Breaking News!!!
BBV Breaking News: Devastating hack proven - Leon County dumps Diebold


Due to security design issues and contractual non-performance, Leon
County supervisor of elections Ion Sancho told Black Box Voting that he
will never use Diebold in an election again. He has requested funds to
replace the Diebold system from the county. He will issue a formal
announcement to this effect shortly.

Finnish security expert Harri Hursti proved that Diebold lied to
Secretaries of State across the nation when Diebold claimed votes could
not be changed on the memory card.

A test election was run in Leon County today with a total of eight
ballots - six ballots voted "no" on a ballot question as to whether
Diebold voting machines can be hacked or not. Two ballots, cast by Dr.
Herbert Thomson and by Harri Hursti voted "yes" indicating a belief that
the Diebold machines could be hacked.

At the beginning of the test election the memory card programmed by
Harri Hursti was inserted into an Optical Scan Diebold voting machine. A
"zero report" was run indicating zero votes on the memory card. In fact,
however, Hursti had pre-loaded the memory card with plus and minus votes.

The eight ballots were run through the optical scan machine. The
standard Diebold-supplied "ender card" was run through as is normal
procedure ending the election. A results tape was run from the voting
machine.

Correct results should have been:

Yes:2 No:6

However the results tape read:

Yes :7 No:1

The results were then uploaded from the optical scan voting machine into
the GEMS central tabulator. The central tabulator is the "mothership"
that pulls in all votes from voting machines. The results in the central
tabulator read:

Yes :7 No:1

This proves that the votes themselves were changed in a one-step process
that would not be detected in any normal canvassing procedure - using
only a credit-card sized memory card.

Diebold Elections Systems head of research and development Pat Green
specifically told the Cuyahoga County board of elections that votes
could not be changed on the memory card.

According to Public Records responses obtained by Black Box Voting in
response to our requests shows that Diebold promulgated this
misrepresentation to as many as 800 state and local elections officials.

In other news, according to Bradblog a stockholder suit was filed today
against Diebold by the law offices of Scott and Scott:

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002153.htm

Permission to reprint granted with link to http://blackboxvoting.org


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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. YEEESSS! knr
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
70. These demonstrations need to be repeated in every county
in the country
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are there supposed to be smiley faces in the OP?
Edited on Tue Dec-13-05 07:41 PM by IndyOp
Nevermind. I answered my own question. :7
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. LOL - It's supposed to be '7' , I presume
: 7 = :7

:)
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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. YES, they're supposed to be 7's--OBVIOUSLY Diebold is at it again!
hahahahah <wink>
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Leon County is where?
any demographic data or links you could send?
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Leon County is in Florida -- here is a link for you...
Rep. McKinney (D-GA) Discusses Hack as Diebold Flips Out
A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION
by Matthew Cardinale

<http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/05/06/con05218.ht... >
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Leon County is in Florida. Here is the story of the hack.
First, from the website of the election supervisor:

http://www.leonfl.org/elect/SpecialReport.htm

Supervisor of Elections
Ion Sancho
Leon County, FL (near Tallahassee)

Special Report: Black Box Voting Attempts to Penetrate The Leon County Florida Optical Scan Voting System.

In January of this year Leon County Supervisor of Elections Ion Sancho was contacted by representatives of Black Box Voting.org, a non-partisan elections advocacy group, to see if their computer experts could successfully circumvent the security of the Leon County voting system. Supervisor Sancho agreed to this proposal and in three separate attempts over a four month period, computer experts Dr. Herbert Thompson and Harri Hursti visited the Leon County Elections Office in their efforts to penetrate the county voting tabulation equipment and alter election data.

The tests focused on two areas: outside or external hacks, specifically examining the modem and any lines going to the vote tabulation computer, and simulated inside or internal penetrations. The results were clear. No outside hack was accomplished. This was not the case however when the hacker was physically present at the vote tabulation computer terminal.

Granted the same access as an employee of our office, it was possible enter the computer, alter election results, and exit the system without leaving any physical record of this action. It was also demonstrated that false information or instructions could be placed on a memory card (the device used to program the individual voting machines and record the voters votes) and create false results or election reports.


What conclusions can be drawn from this exercise? First, the optical scan voting system was resistant to external penetration, including using the modems which transmit election results from the precincts to the central vote accumulator. Outside hacking is seen as one of the greatest potential threats to undermining citizen confidence in the election process. The Leon County Supervisor of Elections was tremendously relieved that such penetration was not accomplished. Secondly, the potential for internal sabotage does exist. It is imperative that security protocols be developed which limit access to the central voting computer and memory cards in election offices. Limited access, video surveillance, and tight controls on the use and distribution of memory cards, all practices currently in place in the Leon County Election Office, are vital to ensure unauthorized actions do not compromise the integrity of the elections process.

{one more paragraph}

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SEE ALSO the report at the time from BBV

BBV
Tallahassee, FL: "Are we having fun yet?"

Friday, May 27, 2005 - 05:03 pm:
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/5921.html

This is the message that appeared in the window of a county optical scan machine, startling Leon County Information Systems Officer Thomas James. Visibly shaken, he immediately turned the machine off.

Diebold's opti-scan (paper ballot) voting system uses a curious memory card design, offering penetration by a lone programmer such that standard canvassing procedures cannot detect election manipulation.

The Diebold optical scan system was used in about 800 jurisdictions in 2004. Among them were several hotbeds of controversy: Volusia County (FL); King County (WA); and the New Hampshire primary election, where machine results differed markedly from hand-counted localities.

New regs: Counting paper ballots forbidden

Most states prohibit elections officials from checking on optical scan tallies by examining the paper ballots. In Washington, Secretary of State Sam Reed declared such spontaneous checkups to be "unauthorized recounts" and prohibited them altogether. New Florida regulations will forbid counting paper ballots, even in recounts, except in highly unusual circumstances. Without paper ballot hand-counts, the hacks demonstrated below show that optical-scan elections can be destroyed in seconds.

MORE
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #8
35. thank you for links
If they are not taking Diebold machines though and they are adamant against paper recounts won't they just go with a different company, same type of machine? Seems liike we'd save a tonne of money and have a secure election system if everyone in the nation just filled out a paper ballot and sent them to a non-partisan/completely transparent group of vote counters... maybe even make the election of the instant runoff variety. Imagine, a viable third candidate....
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philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
73. So why isn't this in the news in Tallahassee?
I haven't seen or heard about it?
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Not just Florida, but in Tallahassee, the CAPITAL of Florida!!!
Where Jebbie lives (well, sort of lives). woohoo!!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. Correct results should have been Yes:2 No:6 // Results tape: Yes:7 No:1
Edited on Tue Dec-13-05 07:39 PM by IndyOp
Correct results should have been:
Yes: 2 No: 6

However the results tape read:
Yes: 7 No: 1

The results were then uploaded from the optical scan voting machine into the GEMS central tabulator. The central tabulator is the "mothership" that pulls in all votes from voting machines. The results in the central tabulator read:
Yes: 7 No: 1

====================

And now with this clarification - :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Good job Harri Hursti!!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. Lesson: Fraud Caused Diff between Winner & Loser to be HUGE !
Edited on Tue Dec-13-05 07:45 PM by IndyOp
Election Fraud is **NOT** just a problem when there is a small difference in election outcome.

Votes Cast - Yes:25% No :75%

Votes Tallied on Memory Card & Computer Yes:87.5% No: 12.5%



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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. IndyOp - maybe you could disable your smilies for this post. eom
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. What does 'eom' mean, please?
And about the smilies - LOL!

My post was meant to clarify the OP which had smilies instead of : 7

At least the title of my post makes sense...

:7
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. eom means end of message -- or, no text below, just in header. eom!
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanx - I use nt for no text. (nt)
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Dirty Hippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Ion Sancho is a hero
As Election Supervisor of Leon county (Tallahassee) he is passionate about fair and accessible voting. He has stoodup to Jeb and testified in Washington on the issue.
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. But he probably has suicidal tendencies that no one knows about. n/t
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jackster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Yes, Ion Sanchez is a hero
and should be recognized nationwide for his fight in Tallahassee/Leon County Florida to preserve the rights of the voting citizen. His influence has been felt outside Leon County in the North Florida area as he is highly respected and many surrounding counties have followed his lead. He fought against a straight electronic vote and insisted on a paper trail via a scanning system. He is a great Floridian and a great American.
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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Great great news, but obvious really. Diebold lies about everything.
Anybody in CA reading this? Make sure your SoS reads this, maybe bombard him with the news or write letters to this effect.

Has Diebold ever told the truth about anything under dispute?
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WearyOne Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Diebold should be sued for voter fraud
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. And this is OPTISCAN! NOT touchscreens (DREs). They've got us struggling
Edited on Tue Dec-13-05 08:26 PM by Peace Patriot
about the touchscreens and fighting them wherever Diebold surfaces to sell these lemons to state/local jurisdictions, because they claim no paper backup is needed. But the OPTISCANS an endemic. They are already in place. They are everywhere.

And here's the problem. ALL of these electronic voting machines are run on 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY software and firmware--the voting machines themselves and the central tabulators. We have NO IDEA how are votes are tabulated, and NO RIGHT TO KNOW. This is corporate PRIVATIZATION of our election system! Private to "their eyes only."

Now, catch the content and tone of this reply by Diebold to the Leon county officials who dared to test their machines, and notice the BASIS of Diebold's objection: "violations of our licensing agreements and intellectual property rights." INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS over OUR vote tabulation!

From the OP article:

"A copy of an abrasive letter from Diebold, dated June 8th, 2005, was obtained by the present writer. The letter was written by Michael E. Lindroos, a Diebold Senior Corporate Counsel.

"'You (Mr. Sancho) appear to have intentionally and negligently allowed unauthorized personnel to make modifications to your system that are not discernable to you or your IT staff. Aside from potential violations of our licensing agreements and intellectual property rights, we believe this to have been a very foolish and irresponsible act,' Lindroos wrote."

"'We are investigating whether your actions may have violated your responsibilities under our licensing agreements or voided any extended warranty. As your system has been compromised by your acts, DESI cannot confirm at this time whether you can conduct any future elections reliably,' Lindroos continued."

-----------

Boy oh boy oh boy! The nerve! Their "intellectual property rights"! And THEY are doing to "investigate" whether THE AUTHORIZED COUNTY ELECTION OFFICIALS "can conduct any future elections RELIABLY"!!!

I hope they get nailed to the wall by that stockholder lawsuit (mentioned in other forums today). These people need to be driven out of the election business on a rail, and all their brethren with them (ES&S, Sequoia, the lot).
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. I CAN'T BELIEVE they said that!!! What an admission!
"As your system has been compromised by your acts, DESI cannot confirm at this time whether you can conduct any future elections reliably,' Lindroos continued."

IN OTHER WORDS, if anyone tries to tamper with our machines they probably won't work right! :wow: Can you imagine ANY better reason not to buy them?

:shootownfoot:

PS: Thanks to Peace Patriot and all those who won't shut up about the PROPRIETARY software/hardware. I know he keeps repeating himself, and shouts in all caps. That's a GOOD thing, people!
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'll bet Mitofsky's glad he didn't do the exit polling for this test.nt
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Reluctant yes voters, no doubt. Evidence somewhere around here. n/t
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Mitofsky would give up, and say you ask who ever the
hell is counting the vote, because I swear 2 people told me yes and 6 said no.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. LOL - Mitosfky doing the exit polling - LOL, LOL, LOL!!
:cry:
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. Call me when Ohio starts noticing such things...
Until then great for Florida...
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babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
42. Send this out to all of our Ohio Elected officials!
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
66. Who have party allegences and wouldn't do a thing against
an Ohio based corporation...
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
18. I thought my eyes were playing tricks
when I read Leon County, because that's WHERE I LIVE.

Whoa. You mean I can be sure my vote is going to count?

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Maggie_May Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
19. We need another Presidential election 2006
If Diebold was used during the 2002 election I want a another election. We can say Bush did not win fairly and we have proof.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. Excellent news!
Hopefully MANY more Counties will follow.

K&R
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
27. Rebeca Mercuri said this a while ago-- K & Friggin R
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-13-05 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
28. Aren't BBV posts supposed to be on the Free Republic now?
Didn't the Democrats steal Florida? Don't make me go to my archive - I am so tired of your crap! You assume we all have ADD and short term memory?
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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
32. PETITION for same test to be conducted in CA BEFORE. . . .
NEWSBREAK: CALIFORNIANS PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION SO THAT
WE CAN HAVE THIS TEST BEFORE CERTIFICATION IN OUR STATE:
Petition for CA Hack Test at http://tinyurl.com/8skbz

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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. GOTTA LOVE THIS PETITION--see above \\\\\\\
n/t
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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
33. Throw another log on the fire.
I do not doubt the "memory cards" being suspect at all.

Thanks for this news.
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holboz Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
36. Kick and Recommend most highly n/t
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
37. bump
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mgr Donating Member (616 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
38. Confirmation?
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 10:52 AM by mgr
The Bradblog story does not make any explicit connection to the BBV report. The voting machine problems they address would follow simply from other reports of Diebold machines not being effect--namely the California performance testing which is cited.

Since better information on the previous Leon County hack was obtained by the local and regional press, I would wait until that information is available to then start trumpeting that the compilers can be altered without forensic evidence to show that.

I will let those more familiar with BBV's veracity address why this should be so.

Mike

{edited to improve sentence sense)
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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Veracity Check:
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. That's NOT about the BBV allegations of yesterday
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 02:42 PM by Boredtodeath
The date at the top of that page will change to 12/15/05 tomorrow. That report is about the past test.

Leon County HAS NOT confirmed this report, nor has any valid news outlet.

No legitimate news source, nor Leon County, has confirmed the BBV report of "dumping" Diebold.


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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Ouch. Thanks for helping me realize that. n/t
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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Huh? Read it again!!!
It shows one form of testing showed no penetration
BUT that the second most certainly did, which
led Ion Sancho to conclude in the final paragraph:

"Based upon the data developed out of this exercise
it is the opinion of the Leon County Supervisor of Elections
that any effort to limit or remove the manual examination of paper
ballots to confirm the correctness of election results
is NOT in the public interest."

In other words, if we don't have verifiable paper audit trails
to check this easy to hack crap, then we're vulnerable to
vote theft.

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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Excuse me.......it is NOT yesterday's work
When they went to this county in the summer, they couldn't penetrate the system without Ion Sanchez giving them the keys. That was Diebold's defense........

You know, at first, I gave you the benefit of the doubt as a misinformed, misled activists at the mercy of Bev Harris. I am very close to re-assessing my view on that.

You are clearly being obtuse about the FACTS IN EVIDENCE. Perhaps you're just being overzealous. And, for the time being, I'll attribute your behavior to that.

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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. What are you talking about?
This was reported to us yesterday--by both BBV and Leon County's Ion Sancho.

The report is the culmination of tests are now in and the findings show that some Diebold equipment that is used all over this country can be hacked quite easily.

And your point is what? That the tests didn't physically all occur on the date the reports to the public were made?

Why is this so important. I fail to understand what your gripe is?

Do you believe this tests did not reveal the blatant vote flipping, because a call to Ion Sancho at the bottom of his press release is an option for you. I've already called and the woman who answered the phone said that the tests showed vote flipping.

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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. See post #48 in this thread
That is NOT yesterday's report.

Now, damnit, perhaps you'll learn to approach Bev Harris with a degree of skepticism.

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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
43. Is there ANY confirmation on this story? Or is BBV blowing more smoke
up our asses? :eyesroll:
I can't get to excited about an unverified post from a shaky source (BBV) by a poster who's hiding their profile to boot.

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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. It looks like more smoke.
Sadly, I'm afraid another DUer has been taken in by Bev Harris.

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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. oh, i figured another DUer was.....
never mind. Not worth our time, is it?
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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #44
58. Do you have a little voo doo doll for Bev?
I adored Andy like everyone else, and I actually interviewed him about his feud with Bev, but I'm not holding grudges on anyone who's caring the torch for our cause. I look at the results--actions. Forget the personalities. Lots of unpleasant people have done great things despite their flaws.

I'm sick of ad hominiem arguments (name calling) instead of talking about facts.

Please prove your allegations that a new test was not done and that Ion Sancho is not going to dump Diebold before name calling.
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Actually, I do.
And you will too once she's finished with you. But not to worry, you'll figure it all out one day.

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Take it easy, Einsteinia. You made a mistake.
And I note that you recognized that and apologized.

That's more than what Bev is doing on her sites thread about this. She's still spinning and obfuscating. Bev mislead you, me, and a lot of people...this time and others.

You can argue Bev carries a torch for the movement. Others can argue that she's torching it.

The fact is that many here are sick of BBV grandstanding instead of talking about facts.

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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. About the Ion Sancho release?
I called Jim March about that and he said that was his fault about linking to an old release. Who puts up websites that post the date you look at it as the date of the post. It was very confusing you have to admit. It was an honest mistake.

BUT, the Hursti tests were real and they showed vote flipping, which is significant because now the election officials finally get it.



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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Please look carefully through that BBV thread.
I feel, too, that the Sanchez's site was confusing. I was caught off-guard by it, as well.

Now. Why was BBV confused it? Probable answer: They weren't. It was used to generate a buzz.

And check out, specifically Patricia Tavormina reply on that thread.

And check out John Gideon asking Bev to back up "the press is all over it". What does she reply? That the press is reporting O'Dell's departure. That's not what John was asking. Was it?

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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. Well, it is quote, "may be more devastating than. . . ."
I received a notice from John Gideon yesterday that said in effect that
BBV did a test election test that proved that vote results could be
manipulated and Ion Sancho pulled the plug on Diebold. He also alludes
to the fact that this may be more devastating than the securities fraud lawsuit.



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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Did he say when he or VotersUnite will do a story? n/t
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #58
67. i guess you missed all the posts bev did on andy at other
freeper sites!!

and all fricking lies!! she is a liar!!

a filthy filthy liar.,..and keith o put her in proper perspective..she is a fraud!

you can not and will not tell me anything about that miserable woman that does not equate to anything but a fraud!
a lying , money stealing fraud!

go read her posts on andy when he was dying..i dare you!!

and do not even attempt to tell me she is nothing but a witch with a b!!

i only wish i could say all i know about that sick pathetic woman...from a dying man!!

she is not on the side of truth ..i can tell you that for fact!! and she is not on the side of getting truth about these machines...and she is not about reform...of these machines..she is owned ...by the wrong side...

i hope she rots in hell!!

and she will!!

am i correct bettyellen??

you bet i am!!

fly
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
48. Nope, what's listed above is not the media release.

BBV Admin
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2940
Registered: 12-2004

Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?)
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:38 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, what's listed above is not the media release. The date automatically updates on that, but it's from a long time ago.

Black Box Voting followed exactly the same procedure with disclosure of the story today that we did in May. However now both Harri Hursti and Ion Sancho are so much more high profile -- and with general interest raised due to the California hack, Wally O'Dell's resignation, and the stockholder lawsuit -- the press is all over this.

I'm sure Mr. Sancho will issue a statement as soon as he can prepare it the way he wants. Mr. Sancho may have been surprised at the immediacy and intensity of the media inquiries, since the confluence of events produced a much hotter press environment this time than we experienced last May.

Although Black Box Voting has his announcement on videotape, and his statements are direct, to the point, and clear as a bell, the press needs the confirm to come directly from him before they can run with it.

That's the problem with media. At first it ignores things and then a tipping point is hit -- then it smacks everyone in sight against the wall like a ship in gale-force winds.

Ion Sancho is a national hero. Other elections officials are coming forward now, but it is Sancho who had the courage to lead.

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi ?...




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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Kevin Shelley was technically the sacrificial lamb
for our cause--the FIRST to stand against Diebold

But YES Ion Sancho is the SECOND, and BTW, he did release a statement:

http://www.leonfl.org/elect/SpecialReport.htm
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Boredtodeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. Sancho DID NOT release a statement from yesterday.
Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Okay, I finally figured out what you're talking about.
First, the source of the Ion Sancho release was on the DailyKos, where I posted the same information. Someone commented that I should link to this informative Ion Sancho release. I looked at it and saw the date was the same and so I figured it was legit. I now find out that the Leon County website updates the date to match the date you are viewing the blog, which I personally have never seen anyone do before. It hadn't occurred to me. I just made a few calls and found out that that release pertained to the last BBV test, which revealed problems with the ability to hack the poll tapes. But as you know elections officials contended that there were other safeguards in place that would make that vulnerability moot.

However, the NEW BBV test, reported on 12/13, is a FIRST--and a very important first--it reveals that a hacker can directly edit the votes on the memory card.

The upshot is that Leon County's Ion Sancho will dump its Diebold products.

But, I must say that your snide way of impugning MY integrity make me suspicious of your intentions. What have you done for this cause that makes you so smug?





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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. What BBV did makes perfect sense to me
with Wally O'Dell's resignation, and the stockholder lawsuit on the media's mind, front and center what better time to run a perfectly legitimate story from May that at the time the media completely ignored.





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Einsteinia Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. This was a new test--a second test--as I understand it.
The first test proved that the poll tapes could be hacked, but many election officials were unimpressed because there were other safeguards that this vulnerability was moot.

The report yesterday is about a NEW test, which showed the that memory cards could be hacked directly.
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #57
65. The old test hacked the memory cards directly.
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 12:43 AM by Zan_of_Texas
That's what Harri said at the time. The memory cards have executable capability, and can be programmed to insert one's own program in place of the original program.

Thus, one can direct any result one desires.

Sancho's website report at the time said:

No outside hack was accomplished. This was not the case however when the hacker was physically present at the vote tabulation computer terminal.

Granted the same access as an employee of our office, it was possible enter the computer, alter election results, and exit the system without leaving any physical record of this action. It was also demonstrated that false information or instructions could be placed on a memory card (the device used to program the individual voting machines and record the voters votes) and create false results or election reports.


http://www.leonfl.org/elect/SpecialReport.htm
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
53. Time for a Legal Challenge to EVERY election that has used Diebold machine
and that INCLUDES Nov 2004!

We have precedence.. that's enough.
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
55. AND someone send this to Conyers! n/m
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #55
68. ROSCOE READ THROUGH ENITRE THREAD!!
THIS is not info conyers doesn't have ..seems bev has people out there recirculating info from last May ..this is not new info...it is re-circulated stuff..leon county has not issued results from new test as of yet...

seems bev is up to her old tricks..fooling new people into being her lackeys to get out old disingenious info..guess she is needing more money for her pockets so she is finding new people to make fools of ..on her behalf...

before you make a judgement read this whole thread...this is old info bev is now trying to get a new life for...and its the perfect way for bev to destroy the credibility of the voter reform on these machines..she is a tool for karl rove...any questions ask me directly..

i can give you an earful of bev !!

fly

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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. A whole lot of people reporting it
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
71. kick.nt
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
72. kick..nt
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-16-05 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #72
74. kick.nt
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