Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 03:56 PM
Original message
DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm...
These are the same data they use in building their case that there was NOT enough fraud to tip the election to John Kerry and that electronic election fraud was NOT a significant contributing factor. Does this look fishy to anyone else besides me?

Excerpt from the Appendix to the voting data chapter, Chapter VI, on page 96 of 108 of the long Chapter VI pdf file:
http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/...

(snip)

For the most part we take as given the accuracy of data supplied to us by the Ohio Secretary of State and by various county BoEs. In some cases we have verified data with multiple sources, and where discrepancies were found we have resolved them to the extent that we have been able. All of our election data is public.

Data regarding precinct racial composition are proprietary data prepared under contract for the DNC.

The condition of Ohio election data has both contributed to and been an impediment to our work. With respect to the former, we appreciate and have benefited greatly from the efforts that the Ohio Secretary of State makes in assembling precinct-level election returns for the entire state. The availability of these returns has obviated the need for us to collect and process a large number of different precinct canvasses. We have caught only a few errors in Secretary of State data, and the Secretary of State has resolved these problems immediately upon being informed of them. Data collected by the Ohio Secretary of State ignore presidential write-in candidates; we do the same.

On the other hand, the lack of uniformity in data formats and availability across Ohio's 88 counties has complicated our task considerably. For instance, some counties do not have records on the number of voting machines at each precinct; others sent us hand-written information with machine counts; and still others were able to send us electronic spreadsheets with machine counts. Similarly, some counties have consistent precinct naming conventions that correspond to codes used by the Ohio Secretary of State; others employ two or three naming conventions across their own records and do not link their data to Secretary of State codes.

(snip)


And for anyone who hasn't seen it, here's the last conclusion from the Executive Summary. As long as the Dem leadership is allowed to cling to this statement, there will be no serious effort to remove the machinery of electronic election fraud. Yes, getting more machines in the districts that were denied them is important, but it won't matter a damn if the votes cast on them can be manipulated electronically.

(page 10 of the second chapter - http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/...

(snip)

The statistical study of precinct-level data does not suggest the occurrence of widespread fraud that systematically misallocated votes from Kerry to Bush.

  • The tendency to vote for Kerry in 2004 was the same as the tendency to vote for the Democratic candidate for governor in 2002 (Hagan). That the pattern of voting for Kerry is so similar to the pattern of voting for the Democratic candidate for governor in 2002 is, in the opinion of the teams political science experts, strong evidence against the claim that widespread fraud systematically misallocated votes from Kerry to Bush.
  • Kerrys support across precincts also increased with the support for Eric Fingerhut, the Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate, and decreased with the support for Issue 1 (ballot initiative opposing same-sex marriage) and increased with the proportion of African American votes. Again this is the pattern that would be expected and is not consistent with claims of widespread fraud that misallocated votes from Kerry to Bush.



pdf files for the DNC election report are here:
http://www.democrats.org/vri/ohioreport/index.html


Also see these DU threads on the DNC Ohio Election Report:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: DNC RELEASES STUDY OF 2004 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN OHIO

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: The DNC 2004 Election Report: An indictment of incompetence - Bob Fitrakis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: "Limp election theft report, Dems prove why they're unworthy" Fitrakis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: What the DNC Ohio Election Report failed to address: My letter to H. Dean?


Finally, does anyone have some followup on the documentation of this, other than the exiting audio files of Fitrakis's on-air statements on it? If it can be proven and publicized, it could be used to make some major waves:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: Fitrakis: Blackwell had direct access to central tabulator!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Very fishy........deserves further investigation.
Would like to work with you to provide to local election fraud groups.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. We have a problem, for sure:
...we appreciate and have benefited greatly from the efforts that the Ohio Secretary of State makes in assembling precinct-level election returns for the entire state. The availability of these returns has obviated the need for us to collect and process a large number of different precinct canvasses.


If, as you know, one had any hope of uncovering fraud, one of the most elementary aspects of the analysis would be precisely to do what they failed to do - compare each precinct canvas with what resides in the central tabulation record for that precinct.

And, the last person on this planet one should trust regarding results in Ohio is it's current SoS.

The mp3 of the Fitrakis statement can be found at:
http://wanderingstar.com/design/bobfitrakisAAR.mp3 (provided by DUer helderheid)


And, from the archives of the KPFT "Sunday Monitor" program on June 19 2005 you have what was said by "Three guests with evidence of fatally serious security flaws in election systems in the US:

Kathleen Wynne & Harri Hursti of www.blackboxvoting.org : "Granted the same access as an employee of the Leon County, FL election office, it was possible enter the computer, alter election results, and exit the system without leaving any physical record of this action."

Bob Fitrakis, author of "Did George W. Bush Steal America's 2004 Election? Essential Documents."

http://kpftx.org/archives/kpftsignal/mp3/050619_180002m...





Peace.

www.missionnotaccomplished.us - How ever long it takes, the day must come when tens of millions of caring individuals peacefully but persistently defy the dictator, deny the corporatists their cash flow, and halt the evil being done in Iraq and in all the other places the Bu$h neoconster regime is destroying civilization and the environment in the name of "America."




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I think that is a key point
As you point out, if we have
"any hope of uncovering fraud, one of the most elementary aspects of the analysis would be precisely to do what they failed to do - compare each precinct canvas with what resides in the central tabulation record for that precinct."

It's a mystery to me why this and many many other things were not done in this study.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. Thank you, UL. We really need to get solid documentation on that
central tabulator back door statement and run with it.

I am so sickened with that the DNC did with this "report." It was a coverup from the start, designed to repress any conroversy on electronic election fraud or hints at a stolen 2004 election - and that shows us what we are up against in getting democracy back.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sent a request to Bob and Harvey, though I believe they are in Houston. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
37. Thanks! If they have documentation for the central tabulator back door,
we can publicize it. Doesn't take extensive study to realize it's a smoking gun to show that the system is designed for fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babsbunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here in Columbus
a local weekly newspaper called "The Other Paper" said, Blackwell and his supporters are particularly excited about a report in a conservative magazine called NewsMax that "Liberal Forces-including a key group backed by George Soros-are saying their #1 political target is Ohio's Secretary Of State, Ken Blackwell." The story says Dems such as Soros fear a Gov. Blackwell will help win Ohio for the Republican ticket in 2008-and he'll be on the ticket as a V.P. candidate.......... With Soros on the job, and with all of his money, and if George Soros teamed up with Bob Fitrakis and they could prove the voter fraud Blackwell was involved in, well what a great idea! Go to www.theotherpaper.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ohio Honest Election
FYI This site has a lot of good info. Cliff Arnebeck is Chairman of the Ohion Honest Election Committee.

http://www.ohiohonestelections.org/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. I think the only way
it's ever going to be proven by what happened is people like Arnebeck and indepedent investigation's. I wouldn't count on the DNC for whatever reason. They'll destroy them or something. I don't know what's up with that. Or with Kerry either. But I do remember reading on BradBlog last weekend someone told how a daughter of Kerry's was threatned (probably death threats). Remember also what happened with Lemme. I don't think we could count on the DNC at all. Maybe not involved in hiding it but fear for their lives and their families if they get too close. It's up to people like Arnebeck and Cobb. I still remember thinking how strange it was that they started the recount when they had nothing to gain at all. I remember reading that Kerry talked to Nader after he won the primaries. Did anybody else read about that? And then he lead the charge into the investigation's on to go to Ohio or not. It is all strange. Thank goodness for people like David Cobb and Cliff Arnebeck though. I hope they stay safe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. You are right
There is definitely something missing in the story. Thank God for Arnebeck and the others fighting the fight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. You know them by the company they keep!
Well, what the heck, lets just let Blackwell count his own votes and keep his own data, unchallenged, for the rest of his career.

This is, of course, weak and, I suspect, very lazy work on the part of those preparing the analysis. What is not mentioned is any method of why it's taken as a "given" that the data is accurate. That implies a decision that the perpetrators of fraud are, in fact, not committing any fraud; and ignores the manifest examples of voting rights violations throughout the rest of the report.

Not encouraging, not a well run project, not a persuasive document.

Outstanding Post
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Could you imagine what kind of investigation could have been done with the
DNC $ 500,000? instead of our self funding? Guess the DNC was hoping an investigation would silence us, no such luck. This is about fair and transparent elections, NOT Kerry vs Bush or Dem vs Repug!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Think of what
"Landshark" could have done with that 500,000.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. I think what could be done now
is instead of sending the DNC money for election fraud to send it to Arnebeck and his organization. Still send money to the DNC if you want of course but Arnebeck probably needs funding too. This is a tough thing. Hopefully something will happen in our favor. *Sigh* Are they still looking into the coin theft??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick - I believe this is SIGNFICANT and needs to be SEEN n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Tell me again why the DNC paid $500K for this rusty Edsel w/ 4 flat tires?
This is nothing more than a result-oriented piece of pseudo-academic clap-trap. It is an embarrassment to anyone who actually lives in Ohio and who has followed the election and the (non-existent) recount with anything more than a passing interest. It is breathtaking in its omissions of critical data and, as this post accurately suggests, shows a Junior High naivete in collecting precinct results.

The report really appears to consist of numerous pre-election, theoretical studies, sprinkled with some Ohio references, which were trotted out by the beltway bandits and palmed off on Brazile as serious new work.

Howard Dean should demand his (what the Hell...Our) money back!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southwood Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Hear, hear!
For all of us who have been following this story 'here on DU' since November 2, it is so obvious what could have been achieved with $500k spent on serious, specific investigations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is very freaky.
But that's what Kerry was saying when he conceded in blitzkrieg time. Hmmm....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sheriff exonerates fox in chicken massacre:
Edited on Thu Jun-30-05 06:23 PM by mom cat
All of the evidence was shipped to a barbecue in Crawford Texas!
Sorry if this post smacks of circuitous logic, so does the subject at hand. How in the hell are are the Democrats supposed to get to the bottom of this when they've relied on Blackwell's data! We need to flood Howard Dean's office with massive protests! How are we ever going to win if we keep trusting the Fox not to eat is alive! :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Great title - maybe if I had used it, this would be getting more attention
If the DNC is not forced to relinquish its position that there was not a significant problem with electronic election fraud in 2004, do you really think there will be any changes before the next election? Could the stakes be any higher? If the machinery for electronic election fraud is not destroyed, democracy is not only gone, its gone FOREVER.

By the way, it's interesting that the info that they got their data from Blackwell was buried in an appendix at the end of a very messy and very long data-dump chapter. And they didn't use his name, they kept calling him "The Ohio Secretary Of State" over and over. Makes me wonder if they realized that this information would be...a bit controversial?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I just sent my "Shame on You" letter to the DNC. It felt good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. This is big, bad, and disgusting!!!!!!!
So who is the source for all this amazing information and whitewash......Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell of course!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

This proves the DLC is IN ON THE FIXING, and loves the corruption......It's time to SMACK these figurative assholes down and throw down a real investigation of the big & bad corrupt BOE of Ohio!

Take it to Howard Dean's office and yell his ear off until we get REAL statistical studies!!!! :banghead: :banghead:

http://www.democrats.org mail to: democraticparty@democrats.org , webmaster@dnc.org
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Translation: "We thank SOS Blackwell for his excellent coverup."
WTF???

Christ Almighty, have we been banging our heads against this wall only to get THIS from the DNC??

I don't know enough profanities to convey my feelings here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
20. This is bad, bad, bad. No credibility for DNC report,
if there was any, now there is none.

The question is how lame or how shameless can they be.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
21. So is this a case of stupidity/laziness/ incompetence, or overt malicious
intent on the part of the DNC?

From Bob Fitrakis:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
"But as has been so typical of the Democrats' performance on so many issues, the party's report appears to have been drafted on the top floor of a high-rise office building staffed with a phone bank."

So why is Blackwell apparently in their "rolodex"?

:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. They're all corrupt shills....
Except for Howard Dean and his whole task force, so we need to rip their ear off until something is done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Actually, I am guessing it's more shades of grey. We have to do
everything we can to push them toward the lighter shades. The stakes are too high to do otherwise. Politics is dirty business with compromise on every level. We have to provide the pressure and the noise to bring the issue of electronic election fraud squarely into the bright focussed light that is needed.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. There are now some good comments posted in the "heads-up" thread
I started in GD-P to bring people to see this main thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: Headsup: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!!

Don't want to lose them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Yes but these people need to be thrown out absolutely!!
http://www.prospect.org/print-friendly/print/V12/7/drey...

The corrupt DLC shills are going to obstruct actual vote reform, and sleep with the devil in Die-bold hall!

Dean can call them out on the carpet.....And get Boxer, Lee and others to join him! :banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. I think so too
Dean should get rid of everybody except who came on with him and should re-do this "investigation."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #21
35. tom, stop holding back!
Seriously, this is just another stunner from the "gang that couldn't shoot straight."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. When I go to the front page of the DNC website, I don't find anything
regarding the DNC report.

Am I overlooking it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. It's here:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Thank you NWH**
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. You're welcome
...and my DU friends call me Hope. I've come to really like it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #32
40. Yes, that sounds better
than calling you by your first or middle name :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
33. With this "report"
the DNC is aiding and abetting the GOP/conservative takeover of our democracy. It is obvious that they have ulterior motives - and have evidently sold us out for their own gain. Either that, or they are imbeciles - which I doubt.

Make NO mistake, this IS happening - we ARE being swindled out of our right to "consent of the governed."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
34. I figured out the coverup!!! The DLC Colluded with the fraud, on purpose!
Edited on Thu Jun-30-05 11:48 PM by LightningFlash
Here is why:

DLC director Evan Bayh owns the payroll for "Donna Brazille" , "Joseph Biden" and many other democratic leaders including Al Gore.....

One of those shills is Terry McAuliffe, and he was hiring Hoffheimer and other DINO-republican attorneys when the Ohio election fraud was happening.

John Kerry learned to take direct advice of these guys, and even his co-director to simply concede and "give up".

So John Kerry did so and threw away any chance of the presidency.....John Edwards who is part of the DLC, falsely told him "he might be able to win" to make it appear that Edwards was on his side.

The whole time this happened though, Terry McAuliffe and his lawyers signed a deal with Governor Taft and Kenneth Blackwell. The deal between the DLC SEALED THE ENTIRE INVESTIGATION, THAT THERE WOULD BE "NO" PROSECUTIONS, AND NO LOOKING INTO ELECTION FRAUD. THIS IS BECAUSE BLACKWELL & TAFT ARE PROTECTING A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP!

The reason the DLC's Bill Richardson DENIED ANY INVESTIGATIONS IN NEW MEXICO, IS HE WAS IN ON THE SAME DEAL. JOHN KERRY WAS EITHER UNKNOWING OF IT AT THE TIME OR HOPELESSLY LOST.

The reason they *KNEW* about the stolen election and wanted it stolen for the sElection is because WITH NO PAPER TRAIL, AND THOUSANDS OF VOTES STOLEN JOHN KERRY WOULD NEVER BE PRESIDENT. The reason they didn't want KERRY TO BE FUCKING PRESIDENT IS SIMPLE: IT WAS THE SAME REASON THEY DIDN'T WANT GORE TO BE!

John Kerry would HAVE STOPPED FUNDING THE PHONY ILLEGAL WAR, WHICH THE DLC HAS KNOWN ABOUT THE WHOLE TIME!

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies....

That's right, Chairman "Donna Brazille", "Joseph Biden" and all the other corrupt profiteers of PNAC.....And who is there on the report? "William Krystol" PNAC director. This was established almost a year before the year 2000!!!! And Chris Dodd is also there, And Bill Richardson is there too!

And guess why Biden, Harold Ford and others like Hillary Clinton went on CABLE NEWS and talked about how the Democratic party was sunk and that moral values had won--And that the WHOLE PARTY MUST MOVE TO THE RIGHT? Because they were all playing politics for Evan Bayh, who was ASSURED by Karl Rove that the fix was in.

THEY HAD TO HAVE THIS PRESIDENCY- And the proof is right there! So they could have the illegal war and make over 9 billion dollars off EXXON Mobil stock...And then to SHUT THE DNC UP, they forced "Brazille" to go on a half-way WHITEWASH OF THE OHIO FRAUD! They're covering Blackwell so Rove doesn't get called out.

THE WHOLE DLC LEADERSHIP HATES KERRY, AND IS COVERING FOR KARL ROVE! They WANT to keep raping countries, and spreading their crap! It's right in bold writing :banghead: :banghead:

This is the whole plot....And they never thought the minutes would get out. NO MATTER WHAT, WE HAVE TO STOP THESE CORPORATE FASCISTS FROM FINISHING THE AGENDA!!!!!!!

http://www.usalone.com/warlies.htm
http://www.commonblog.com/story/2005/6/9/112353/3287
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. The fix was in, all the way clear back in 2002!!!!!
Edited on Fri Jul-01-05 12:56 AM by LightningFlash
ROVE made a deal with these damned shills from the getgo!!!

:wow: :wow:


"HANNITY: All right. Let's look a little bit, and this is for real political insiders, and they want to get into Karl Rove's brain, because you are the architect. Let's look a little bit down the road in '08. We see some interesting maneuvers going on.



Hillary Clinton, clearly to move center right on issues like immigration, pro-life issues, family values issues. It appears, and it's been written up in the press, that this is a concerted effort on her part.



You have somebody like Evan Bayh , who comes out against Condi Rice. Considered a more moderate senator, from Indiana. What do you make of those moves?



And who do you see in the Republican Party that because Dick Cheney just said this last week that he's not going to run. Who do you see in the Republican Party, and the Democratic maneuvering?



ROVE: You know, there's lots of time for good people to emerge. I mean, we just got through an election. We've got a couple years more. I'm sure there are people thinking about it and interested and planning for it. But that I'm not one of them."


http://tinyurl.com/b5oby

You didn't know, the FIX was in?!??? Evan Bayh was elected based on his deal with ROVE!!!! Agree with us, you're in. Don't, you're out you traitor liberal. :mad: :mad: :evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #38
42. I haven't trusted DLC for a long time! It's all about the $ for them. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
36. It isn't just the SOURCE of data that's questionable, it's also the LOGIC
they try to use to make their arguments. This needs much more study and exposition. here's a start;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: What the DNC Ohio Election Report failed to address: My letter to H. Dean

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thead title: The DNC 2004 Election Report: An indictment of incompetence - Bob Fitrakis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: "Limp election theft report, Dems prove why they're unworthy" Fitrakis
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
41. Boy, do we need a BIG BROOM!!! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
43. ANOTHER WTF MOMENT: "INCREASED TURNOUT HURT KERRY" !?!?!!
Edited on Fri Jul-01-05 02:05 PM by Nothing Without Hope
This is from the second page of text in the introductory remarks in the data dump chapter, Chapter VI, on what is page 49 of the full, 204-page report:


If increases in registration reflect voter mobilization efforts, then mobilization tended to help Kerry in all the places included in this analysis except in precincts using precinct-tabulated optical scan machines (which are all in Allen County). But if increases in voter turnout are the standard for measuring mobilization efforts, then Kerry does not come off so well. Over all precincts and wards in the analysis, the proportion voting for Kerry decreases as turnout in 2004 increases, even when turnout in the 2002 election is taken into account. This suggests that voter mobilization efforts focused on turnout on balance hurt Kerry, at least if one takes 2002 as the baseline.


Again, the first page in these Chapter VI introductory remarks make it clear where the data on which this surprising conclusion were based came from (page 48 of the full report):


During the first five months of 2005, the DNC Ohio 2004 Investigative Project collected extensive data from precincts throughout Ohio. Eric Greenwald spearheaded the data collection effort. The effort produced a combination of electronic spreadsheet files and many PDF files containing images from faxes of scanned documents. The most important spreadsheet was a file produced by the Ohio Secretary of State office that reported registered voter counts, counts of votes cast and voting returns for precincts from all Ohio counties.


I thought the evidence was that voter turnout INCREASED because people wanted to vote for Kerry against Bush, especially in the African-American communities. :wtf: Shouldn't the DNC report writers have seen this as SUSPICIOUS???

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dxstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Great post, Hope... I'm nominating it!
Unbelievable obvious coverup done in bright light, right in front of the feeble, snoozing American public...
I'm from Cleveland... this is bullshit.

OK, NOBODY call me a racist, alright? This has NOTHING to do with race, it's just a PUN on his NAME:

Kenneth Blackhole, an awesome and mysterious force of nature man is only beginning to understand; we don't really know, but we theorize that once votes are drawn in by him, they are crushed in the void of his personal gravity, so immense and weighty that NO VOTE or VOTE-FRAUD EVIDENCE or even a single mote of illuminating light can possibly escape!
So I guess we'll just have to take his word for it...

Sometimes I feel like goin' after those Diebold machines like the evil robots they are, and crush those metal motherfuckers before they kill us ALL.
They're Terminator machines, that's what they are...
They kill liberty and hope and equity and ANY dreams of any real future for the people of earth...
d
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Yes, they certainly should have
Here is the probable explanation of how they were able to say that, without actually lying. This is an excerpt of my letter to the researchers who did this study:

As you are aware, low voter turnout could be due to any of the following or more: a) actual low voter turnout; b) voter suppression, such as might occur from insufficient machine allocation, leading to long voting lines, and potential voters leaving the polling place before voting, or; c) electronic manipulation, resulting in discarded ballots.

Do you think that it is possible or likely that the relatively low voter turnout associated with not voting yes to Issue 1 could be due to reason b or c above, especially relating to Democratic voters?


In other words, voter suppression or electronic manipulation of the Democratic vote will appear exactly like "low voter turnout" when the statistics are computed. As long as the researchers don't look for electronic manipulation or voter suppression as the underlying cause, they can just call it "low voter turnout". At least that's the way I see it. It will be interesting to see what the researchers have to say, if anything, to my question.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Your head must be hurting from trying to de-contort that "study"!
Is there really only one party with two heads that scream at one another? This trash sounds positively Rovian!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
47. perhaps now the truth can be find without the lies of the repubs
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. We have to stop them now because they're moving on it....
PNAC's world of corporate whores are scared because they need the next sElections to mandate POLICIES for ALL of the illegal wars without being held accountable, and massive plundering of other countries.....

They'll federalize all elections to become sElections and only we can stop these assholes by standing up and saying NO MORE!!!!!! And taking Howard Dean as our voice rioting in the streets, NO MORE voting companies, PAPER BALLOTS, NO MORE CORRUPT sELECTION REFORM GROUPS!!!! NO MORE, PERIOD!!!

:banghead: :banghead: :yourock:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
49. OH. MY. GOD - come see the DOJ "report" on the Ohio election - Conyers is
Edited on Fri Jul-01-05 07:39 PM by Nothing Without Hope
"FLABBERASTED"!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: BRAD BLOG: DOJ OHIO WHITEWASH REPORT! CONYERS 'FLABBERGASTED'!

From the opening post of that thread, which has the Full Story, including complete DOJ Report and Conyers' full reply:


DOJ WHITEWASHES OHIO ELECTION INVESTIGATION!
CONYERS 'FLABBERGASTED' IN REBUTTAL!
Unrequested 'Report' Dismisses, Ignores Evidence of Discrimination, Disenfranchisement!
DoJ Report Also Reveals More than 100,000 Ohio Voters NEWLY 'Purged' from Rolls in One County Alone!

There is almost no other way to put this, but we are simply floored by the report just released by the Department of Justice concerning the Franklin County, OH elections...

If there ever was a report which could be called a whitewash, this would be the very dictionary definition -- with the emphasis on WHITE...


And now we have to deal with the fact that the "independent" DNC Ohio report, based on data handed to them by Kenneth Blackwell and ALSO arguing against fraud, can't be used to argue this DOJ travesty down effectively because IT IS A WHITEWASH TOO!!!!


It's probably a matter of degree, and the Dems haven't tried to purge anyone. But they use the numbers from Blackwell to say there was no fraud, so the GOP can say that the DNC's own report prove that they are right in claiming this.

This MUST be stopped, or we will never see democracy again.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Jesus CHRIST!!!! A call to arms for everybody!!!!
The WAR is on!!!!!!!!

democraticparty@democrats.org guestbook@dnc.org webmaster@dnc.org

Picket riot every member's ear OFF!!!!!! WE DEMAND HOWARD FIGHTS NOW!!!!!

:banghead: :banghead: http://www.donotconcede.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-02-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
51. Some responses to my questions about the DNC report
I recently received a response from Professor Walter Mebane to my questions about his groups portions of the DNC 2004 Ohio Election Report. Professor Mebanes group is responsible for Sections VI and VII of the DNC report. I consider Section VI to be the most critical section of the report, because that is the section that concludes that the analysis strongly suggests that there was no widespread fraud in the Ohio 2004 Presidential election.

My intention is to go over the response to my questions with some statisticians prior to posting a summary of the response on the DU. That is because I am unable to fully understand some key parts of the response. However, in the meantime, I think that it is worth while to post some key points of the response because I know that a lot of you are writing letters to our representatives or to the DNC, and I think that some parts of Professor Mebanes response may be helpful to that effort.

Before listing those points I just want to say a general word about Professor Mebanes response. He responded to my e-mail to him within four hours, and the response is extremely detailed and thorough though quite difficult to read for non-statisticians. In that regard, and because some of his points I believe could be useful our effort, I think that many of you would feel some gratitude towards him for his prompt and thorough response. On the other hand, he still sticks by his conclusion that The precinct data
provide strong evidence against the claim that there was widespread misallocation of votes from Kerry to Bush. In that respect Im sure that many of you would be profoundly disappointed in him, to say the least.

I myself am still unable to understand the rationale for coming to that conclusion, and that is one reason why I want to go over the response with some statisticians. Anyhow, here are the points that you might find useful:


1. Relationship of Issue 1 (ban on gay marriage) to turnout

One very perplexing (to me) part of his report was that there was a positive correlation between turnout and voting yes on Issue 1, which is responsible for an increase in turnout of one half percent to 2%. That was perplexing to me because we have always been told that a large turnout favors Democrats, but if voting yes on Issue 1 led to increased turnout, then that would appear to mean that increased turnout favored Bush.

So I asked if the reason for the apparent correlation between turnout and voting yes on Issue1 could be due to voter suppression or electronic manipulation to reduce the vote in Democratic precincts, since this would make it appear as if there was low turnout in Democratic precincts.

The response I received to this question was basically that it was impossible to tell because there was no data available on party affiliation, and with regard to the possibility that electronic fraud played a role in this, there was no evidence found for this but the kind of data we have are not really suitable to digging into that. A forensic examination of administrative records would be needed to make the case for or against.


2. Voter suppression due to insufficient voting machine allocation in Franklin County

Item # 3 in my thread where I post my letter to Howard Dean discusses in depth the problem of voter suppression due to insufficient voting machine allocation in Franklin County: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... .

I asked Professor Mebane about that, and whether that could be part of the reason for the apparent low voter turnout in Democratic precincts. He did confirm the problem in Franklin County by saying that: "There were also proportionally fewer voting machines in Franklin County's minority neighborhoods than in predominantly white neighborhoods." I dont believe he specifically addressed the issue of whether that could have contributed to the apparent low voter turnout in Democratic precincts. But I dont see any way that it could NOT have contributed to that. I mean, it seems to me that thats just common sense.


3. Strange findings in Cuyahoga County

I asked about some of the strange findings in Cuyahoga County, which I describe in detail in item # 2 of my letter to Howard Dean (see link above). Briefly, this includes implausibly low voter turnout in numerous precincts, coupled with the strange finding noted in the DNC report that in Cuyahoga County the normal expected positive correlation between voter turnout and machines per voter was ABSENT.

Heres what Professor Mebane had to say about that: I don't know what went on in Cuyahoga County. As I wrote in several places in the DNC report, there were many anomalies in the data from Cuyahoga County that warrant further investigation.


4. Late vote surge in Miami County

I also detailed in my Dean letter thread, item # 5, the late vote surge of 19,000 votes in Miami County, after 100 % of precincts had reported, giving Bush an additional cushion of about 6,000 votes.

In response to my pointing that out, Professor Mebane noted that there were four precincts in Ohio that were outliers with respect to turnout, as predicted by support for Issue 1. Three of those precincts were in Miami County, two high outliers and one low outlier.


5. Other anomalies

I also pointed out other anomalies and suspicious findings, including electronic vote switching from Kerry to Bush in Mahoning County, and several anomalies in southwestern Ohio, including a swing of 37,000 votes to Bush (compared to his 2000 vote) from the three large counties in southwestern Ohio (Warren, Butler, and Clermont), unexpectedly poor performance of Kerry compared to the relatively unknown liberal Democratic candidate for Chief Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court, the infamous lockdown in Warren County to prevent anyone other than Republicans from observing the vote count, and the tremendously high increase in voter registration in these counties, despite the fact that the DNC report finds that this was supposed to be associated with Democratic gains. These are all detailed in item #s 4 and 6 of my Dean letter thread.

Professor Mebanes response to all this was: The problems you review for Mahoning and the other counties you mentioned seem to me to call for investigation, regardless of what is in the precinct data we analyzed.


6. Possible problems with central tabulators

I asked Professor Mebane if it is possible or likely that if one or more of these episodes (i.e., the several findings that I describe above) do in fact represent fraud, that the fraud was perpetrated through manipulation of central tabulators, and therefore was not necessarily manifested by wide variance in precinct data?

His answer to that was: The mysteries of central tabulation are important to understand and eliminate. Section VII and especially Section VIII of the DNC report address this. The DNC team did not have access either to the tabulation hardware or software or to the original ballots (where paper ballots were used).


Well, thats all I have for now. Not as much as we would like by any means, but I hope that there are at least some useful points here. Some of Professor Mebane's responses that I've summarized here were already included in the DNC report, but they weren't included in the Executive Summary, which is what most people read.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 21st 2019, 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC