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Gutless DNC. No "smoking gun"? Nothing to investigate?

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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 10:36 AM
Original message
Gutless DNC. No "smoking gun"? Nothing to investigate?
The reason most people don't know about the stolen election is that neither Kerry, the DNC nor any major Democratic elected officials will come right out and say that we were ripped off. What kind of a knock-kneed, pusillanimous excuse for a political party is this, anyway? What is the point in pouring money into future national election efforts if the Republicans can secretly control the outcome? Democratic party leaders should insist on a full investigation by the Justice Dept. and FBI.'s recent report is grounds enough for an investigation.

The Republicans spent a decade and well over $40 million investigating Clinton over a failed real estate deal and a sexual indiscretion, turning up nothing of any consequence, but the Democratic Party can't summon the intestinal fortitude to demand an investigation of what amounts to TREASON? The very real probability that this election was stolen merits ten times what was spent on Whitewater, maybe 100 times.

Statistics are used all the time to prove cases in civil actions, and they can certainly be used to support the need for an investigation. You don't have to have a "smoking gun" or absolute proof to have an investigation. If that were the case, what would be the point of ever having an investigation about anything? All you need is a reasonable basis for believing that a crime may have been committed.

Was there ever a "smoking gun" in Whitewater? Absolutely not. There wasn't even one after the investigation, let alone before it began, and it was about some paltry land deal gone bad that occurred before Clinton became president, not possible treason. Be that as it may, there is plenty to investigate with respect to the 2004 presidential election. Hopefuly, an investigation by the Justice Dept. and FBI would turn up multiple "smoking guns."

Bear in mind that I am not talking about mere "dirty tricks" here. This is not just the type of jejune "rat fucking" in which Donald Segretti and other Republican operatives engaged during the 1972 presidential campaign. I also am not talking about the dirty tricks that occurred in the November 2, 2004 election, terrible as they were--you know, things like not having enough machines in minority-dominated precincts or misdirecting Kerry voters to the wrong polling places. No, I am limiting my remarks to the kinds of activities that have the potential to change the results of the election after the people have spoken, stuff that, if proven, amounts to massive electoral fraud at the national level, a complete subversion of our political system, treason, if you will.

So let's look at some of the things we do know that justify an investigation. Just for starters, what about the five percent difference between the exit polls and the reported results? Multiple reputable statisticians have now said that this is a virtual statistical impossibility. This would be enough to cast very heavy doubt on an election occurring anywhere else in the world. Why not here? If anything, we have the most sophisticated exit polling in the world. Exit polling was practically invented in this country, and it has been continuously perfected in election cycle after election cycle for at least fifty or sixty years. Why is it suddenly invalid only in the U.S.?

What about the RABA Technologies report on the Diebold AccuVote TS DRE Voting System dated January 20, 2004, which was commissioned by the Dept. of Legislative Services of the Maryland General Assembly? It reviewed, and extensively commented on, the previously issued report by Avi Rubin of Johns Hopkins University, et al. (commonly known as the Rubin report or Johns Hopkins report) and the paper by Science Applications International Corporation (generally known as the SAIC report), both of which had previously identified extremely serious security flaws in the Diebold AccuVote TS DRE voting machines and the GEMS central vote-tabulator program.
The Director of RABA, computer security expert Dr. Michael A. Wertheimer, put together a "Red Team" of computer security experts, who were directed to attack the software and hardware in the Diebold voting system and report their results to the state. Among the RABA findings were seven vulnerabilities of the GEMS database, which begin at the bottom of page 20. Note in particular vulnerabilities 2 and 5:

"2. Modify GEMS software and/or election database on LBE server. Given physical access to the server, one can insert a CD that will automatically upload malicious software, modify or delete elections, or reorder ballot definitions. The problem is that the server enables the 'autorun' feature."

"5. Modify election database. Given either physical or remote access (see below) it is possible to modify the GEMS database. Because both the database password and audit logs are stored within the database itself it is possible to modify the contents without detection. Furthermore, system auditing is not configured to detect access to the database."

These are only two of seven serious vulnerabilities identified by the RABA team in the GEMS software. They also found a number of serious security flaws in the software that runs the Diebold AccuVote TS DRE voting machines. These vulnerabilities were not fixed before the 2004 presidential election and are reason enough for an investigation, but there is much more.

In view of these vulnerabilities, what about having a felon who was convicted of computer embezzlement in charge of software development at Diebold (Jeffrey Dean)? Dean pleaded guilty to 23 counts of embezzlement that court records say involved "sophisticated" manipulation of computer accounting records, including the planting of back doors in his software, which enabled him to access the accounting records and siphon off funds without being detected. According to the findings of fact in case no. 89-1-04034-1 (King County, Washington):

Defendants thefts occurred over a 2 1/2 year period of time, there were multiple incidents, more than the standard range can account for, the actual monetary loss was substantially greater than typical for the offense, the crimes and their cover-up involved a high degree of sophistication and planning in the use and alteration of records in the computerized accounting system that defendant maintained for the victim, and the defendant used his position of trust and fiduciary responsibility as a computer systems and accounting consultant for the victim to facilitate the commission of the offenses. "

What about the secret two-character switch that Bev Harris of identified in Diebold's GEMS central tabulator software. According to Harris, GEMS has two vote-tabulating tables that are normally linked and contain the same data. However, a secret two-character switch turns this connection on and off. When off, the two tables are completely decoupled. Interim reports during the election draw data from the first table to permit spot checks of real election results. However, the final election summary report is drawn from the second table (a second set of "books," if you will), which can be altered manually or by malicious software. There is no reason for this second table to be in the software, except to permit tampering.

What about the audit log entries that disappeared from the central tabulator software in King County, Washington? Bev Harris has documented an erasure that occurred in the office of King County, Washington Elections Supervisor Dean Logan of at least three hours of the audit log on September 14, 2004, the night of a primary held in King County. Harris obtained printouts of summary reports that were run at 10:34 p.m., 11:38 p.m., 12:11 a.m., 12:46 a.m., and 1:33 p.m. (there are actually no entries from 9:52 p.m. until 1:31 a.m.). The reason it is possible to say with complete certainty that they were run at those times is that each of the reports was signed by Elections Supervisor Dean Logan and bears the original date and time stamp showing that it was run then. Bev Harris has those reports.

What about the posting of an internal Diebold memo on its own FTP site that says they had a routine practice of not securing the audit logs and of changing the software after it was checked and certified? Diebold will tell you that it is impossible to alter the audit log. But Harris has posted a memo by Diebold chief engineer Ken Clark dated October 18, 2001, in which he (i) admits that it can be done, (ii) discusses how Diebold employees might get around questions put to them about the problem by the Independent Testing Authority, Metamor (now Ciber), and (iii) says that King County is famous for it.

Diebold representatives will blithely state that their software is secure because it employs password protection. However, Harris found that the user name was often simply the default user ID, "Admin," and that the standard password was "1111." In other cases, passwords were frequently something obvious, such as the name of the county using a particular software build. Diebold also made user ID and password information readily available in downloadable manuals and other documents that it posted on its FTP site. In some cases this information was also available in the developer's comments within the downloadable source code on the FTP site.

Although I am an attorney, I do not claim to be an expert in election law. Nevertheless, I feel certain that the King County erasure is a violation of state and federal law. It may be possible to break this wide open if Supervisor Logan can be given limited or full immunity in a congressional or criminal proceeding in exchange for (i) admitting that he either personally made the changes or knowingly permitted them to be made, (ii) providing details about the changes that were made, (iii) telling why he did it, (iv) revealing who told him about the two-character switch and other security holes in the GEMS software and (v) identifying the person or persons who induced him to make the changes or to look the other way while someone else was making them. Jeffrey Dean should also be given immunity in exchange for revealing why he programmed the two-character switch into the GEMS software, who put him up to it, who knew about it, etc.

I could continue, and I am sure that others have many other similar incidents or circumstances that are deserving of investigation. However, there is no need to go on. There is already plenty that justifies an investigation if party leaders would band together and demand one. Democrats will not have faith in the system again until you JUST DO IT!
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kansasblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Green's have done more that the Dems
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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Greens
I agree. Far more. The inactivity of the Democratic Party is unconscionable. They give every appearance of having simply punted on what is potentially one of the most egregious violations of constitutional rights in U.S. history. If they don't address this, they run the risk of being perceived as a party that exists for the sole purpose of organizing and running elections. Just running and running and running, not advancing their constituents' causes, seems to be their sole raison d'etre. Even when they win, they manage to lose, and they seem helpless to do anything about it ("Help, I've fallen, and I can't get up!), even when handed statistical proof that the elecion was stolen. How ineffectual and pathetic is that?
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rwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kerry's own wife
said there was fraud.When two Republican brothers own 80% of all voting machines in the U.S.Could you imagine the outcry if Al Gore or the Democrats owned the voting machines?And the Warren County voting count, lock down while Karl Rove checked in his special computor room election night to see how many votes were needed.
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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Teresa has infinitely more balls than John
Ann Coulter calls Democrats "traitors" for nothing more than standing their ground. Can you imagine what she and the other Republican attack dogs would be doing now if the tables were turned? Cries for an investigation would have started in the wee hours of Nov. 3rd. Their Senators would have been on C-SPAN clamoring for justice as soon as they could have gotten to the well of the Senate. Press conferences would have been immediately organized all over the Hill, and the national media would have covered it minute by minute with bated breath. By now the investigation would be well under way, and the country would already have weeks (if not months) of congressional hearings under its belt.

What do the Democrats do about it? Absolutely nothing. The Repugs must be laughing so hard now, as they have every right to do!!!!!
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captain crunch Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is nuts, has the DNC seen the proof of fraud
that has been put together by TruthIsAll ? How can they just ignore it? It boggles the mind how we have absolute proof the election was stolen and none of the leaders on the left seem to care. Are they in on it? What other explanation can there be?
So many questions.....
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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Nuts
I think they are just terrified of not being able to prove their case. The problem is that they are confusing investigation with criminal charges or a civil suit. We are not talking about proof beyond a reasonable doubt here or even proof by a preponderance. There just has to be a reasonable basis to believe that a crime may have been committed. The report suffices for that. They should embrace it and get on with it. USCountVotes says on its home page <>:

"More than 27,000 reports of irregularities in the 2004 election were submitted to the independent 'Election Incident Reporting System'; thousands more were reported to other organizations.

"Unprecedented discrepancies between exit poll results and final tallies in several key states occurred that still have never been explained. It has only recently been officially confirmed (by the exit pollsters themselves) that on election night the final set of exit polls showed John Kerry defeating George Bush by 3% of the popular vote and a clear majority of 316 electoral votes. Our statisticians analyzed Edison/Mitofsky's own explanation of their exit poll discrepancies, and found serious flaws in their argument. Exit polls have been used for years to detect corruption of official vote tallies - most recently in Ukraine."
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. Unfortunately, I believe it is because the Dem's have stepped
"knee-high" into the pile of crap themselves. The only reason, IMO, that they haven't pursued this is because it will uncover many "voting irregularities" from BOTH parties. Sad, isn't it?

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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Let the crap fall where it may
If Democrats are guilty of electoral fraud, they deserve to be tarred and feathered and ridden to the penitentiary on a rail.
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burn the bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. this is what I think too. Though I think shrubco really went to a new
level with the machine manipulation.
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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. New level
They've been doing it since at least 1996 when Chuck Hagel, former CEO (he resigned just before announcing his candidacy for the U.S. Senate) of major voting machine vendor ES&S, had the votes in his election counted by his own machines and won by a landslide, even in heavily Democratic and black districts that had never voted Republican before. He did this despite never having run for office before. Then he showed other top Republicans how to duplicate his success.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Yup, in the electoral war, no side is likely completely innocent
of "human rights violations" so to speak
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ray of light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-05 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Proof goes both ways
You have no proof of dem fraud and dems only have statisical proof of republican fraud. Please don't start a rumor mill.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. there are only two possibilities
either kerry, mcculliffe, and the DNC are still planning their attack while they get all their "ducks in a row"


the democratic party is completely clueless and useless

I'm worried that the latter is the case. the $500K that they're supposedly throwing at this was only sent to OHIO, where there are few DREs and there's a ton of evidence outside of ohio.

the fought against the Green Party's efforts to have a recount. and against Moss v Bush.

they let the machines' memory be erased in NM, which I think should be a prosecutable crime.

is there a pattern here?
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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Clueless
It's hard to believe that Howard Dean is clueless about this. He was guest host on Tony Brown's show on CNBC some time last year before the election. Bev Harris of came on the show and showed him how to hack Diebold's GEMS central tabulator software. It was captured on video and is part of the VoterGate video, which you can download at I personally like the streaming version best (second page after you select whether you have a high bandwidth connection or a slow one) because you can start viewing it sooner. When you get the video running, drag the slider button half way to the right. The Dean/Harris segment is about halfway through. In it you will see Howard Dean personally hacking the GEMS database and flipping the votes in a mock election.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. THere maky be other possibilities than the two you mentioned. Maybe
they know but they have other reasons for not moving ahead besides not having their ducks in a row.
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. hate to sound like a whiner
but when I voted for Kerry, I saw the machine default to Bush 5 times, w/o an investigation, what hope do we have in 06 and 08, what
is to prevent it from happening again. What assurance do I have that my vote will count.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-03-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "what is to prevent it from happing again"
WE are to prevent it from happening again. NGU
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. kster---Everybody should adopt your attitude! It's a winner!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-05 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You don't sound like a whiner. You should be shouting it from the rooftops
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MissWaverly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-05 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. letter to Dr. Dean 5/4
Dr. Dean, it's me, the lady from Baltimore, that voted on the machine that defaulted to Bush 5 times. I just signed off talking to a troll on Democratic Underground, why they don't go around spitting on pigeons or find other negative pursuits other than tormenting dems, I don't know, but he thought he topped me with the line,
YOU can't prove the machine defaulted to Bush 5 times, I said that I could not prove it, but I can't forget it and me and the
other thousands of people who it happened to are not going to forget it either and that I was going to sign off and send Dr. Dean, $25.00 just so he wouldn't forget about it either, so HERE I am. (They break into a cold sweat at the smell of money - especially if it's not headed in their direction.)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-04-05 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. Filius Nullius, I agree with your analysis and with your outrage at...
...Democratic Party leaders, but I think that your expectation that the Justice Department or the FBI could be moved to do anything about Bush Cartel 2004 election fraud indicates that you may not have thought this problem through sufficiently (the problem of the Democrats). I will get to the Justice Dept. and the FBI in a moment, but first...

The Help America Vote Act (HAVA) was essentially a scheme to bribe the states with $4 billion to convert to electronic voting, with no controls on conflicts of interest, with major Bush supporters owning and controlling the voting machines, secret proprietary programming code "counting" all the votes, and no auditing controls (such as a paper trail). Democrats permitted this extremely insecure, hackable, fraud-prone election system to be put in place, with no loud protests whatsoever. They should have been screaming bloody murder about Tom Delay's obstructions of a true election system.

HAVA succeeded in destroying the integrity of our election system AND in corrupting many Democrats including state/local election officials. In California, for instance, we now have a wide open swinging door between public service in elections divisions and lucrative employment with electronic voting companies. The system is putrid. To clean it up, you need a big broom. When someone in fact tried to use one--tried to end the conflicts of interest, to demand review of the secret source code, to insist on a voter verified paper trail or a paper ballot option, and to demand accountability by the voting machine companies and by county election officials--our vigilant Sec of State here, Kevin Shelley, who decertified and sued Diebold--they destroyed him with a smear campaign, with many corrupt and collusive Democrats leading the pack (and, not incidentally, doing Schwarzenegger's dirty work for him--he now has a patsy appointee as Sec of State).

It was one of the ugliest things I've ever seen happen in the Democratic Party. And it reeks of corruption, collusion and fear. And I think all three of these things are at work in the national party as well, and in DC.

Whatever John Kerry knew of the potential for a stolen election via the electronic voting systems and central tabulators, or of the theft of the election by this means when it occurred--and I think it's possible he didn't know much about either thing--in any contest of the election, he was facing a Congress already stacked with Bushcon "pod people" for whom NO EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND would have prompted an investigation (let alone tossing out of Bush's "victory"), a Justice Department and and an FBI that had already overlooked massive, blatant violations of the Voting Rights Act in Ohio, Florida and other states, and who were and are mere tools of the Bush Cartel, a Supreme Court that had already broken the Constitution to install Bush in 2000, and a country full of people to whom the TV networks had LIED about the the exit polls' true result (they CHANGED the exit polls on everybody's TV screens to fit the official result), so that most people thought that, somehow, Bush had won.

In other words, Kerry or anybody else challenging the election faced a STONE WALL of opposition. This was a RAW, NAKED POWER game, in which justice and fairness did not exist.

You want justice and fairness. So do I. But it is nowhere to be found in this government.

This does not exonerate the Democratic Party leaders who failed to cry the alarm about this fraudulent election SYSTEM long before the election. And it does not exonerate them now, for blinding themselves AND the American people--and especially all those who voted for Kerry/Edwards (and I think that includes a whole lot of Republicans)--to what happened on Nov. 2. Whatever their reasons are --corruption? stupidity? fear? policy? (they like war in the Middle East, and love having Bush do it for them?) greed? (they like all those tax cuts for the rich?), strategy? (a hopeless cause?), guile? (saving their ammunition? waiting for the right moment?) or even if they have clean hands and the purest of motives--they have failed us.

I agree that the Democrats should be burning the Capitol down right now with election fraud information. It has become crystal clear that Bush does not represent a majority of Americans, and that the American people have no confidence in this administration. Numerous opinion polls are registering huge disapproval of every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, in the 60% to 70% range, with unprecedented low approval ratings for Bush himself for over a year now, falling to 49% on his Inauguration Day! That's unheard of. The opinion polls are a flashing red arrow pointing right at election fraud.

And, although Tom Delay and Co. did their best to achieve an unverifiable election--an election in which fraud could not be proven because accountability measures had been nearly eliminated from the system--there is a mountain of strong inferential evidence that this election produced a wrong outcome. And the blatant, highly visible evidence in Ohio establishes the intent to defraud.

That the Democrats are NOT burning the Capitol down with this stolen election tells us just how bad things are--as to corruption, collusion and fear. We need to be realistic about this. And we also need to know what they're up against--that justice and fairness are ghosts haunting the edges of our country right now. They are dead. We have to find the way to make them live again.

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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Outrage? Absolutely, and plenty of it!
Nice post, Peace Patriot! The virtually non-existent response of the Democrats is why the media and Republicans have been able to get away with this. If you were the mainstream media, would you be inclined to go out on a limb if none of the Democratic leadership, not even the candidate himself, were willing to stand up and be counted? If the DNC and party leaders are too afraid or corrupt to address this head-on by demanding an investigation, there is little, if any, hope of correcting this horrendous situation.

Top Dems should meet and decide if they are in general agreement that electoral fraud was committed. If so, they should adopt a public statement of principles and facts, as they are known. Like the Founding Fathers, they should then make a solemn pledge of mutual support, declaring to each other their unwavering determination to restore freedom and electoral fairness to all Americans once more. They might even want to couch this declaration in terms reminiscent of the Founding Fathers, when then put everything on the line in affirming: "For the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other, our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." Some may scoff that this is over the top, but this is no less of a threat to American liberty than that with which the signers of the Declaration of Independence were faced.

At that point, they should immediately come forth and say, "We have found smoke, and lots of it; there has to be a fire, and we demand that you find it before it burns the entire house down!" Then they must keep saying it in every press conference, interview and news talk show they do. Even if no investigation is initially ordered by Justice, the FBI or Congress, the media will have no alternative but to cover the uproar. That will finally get the general public looking at the evidence of what happened. Eventually, that might create a ground swell of indignation that neither the media nor the government can ignore.

If public opinion polls eventually show that a substantial majority of Americans believe this should be investigated, an investigation will probably happen. After all, if you are a Republican who had nothing to do with this, even a national officeholder, would you want to go down in history as a corrupt facilitator of the greatest election fraud in history?

In the final analysis, the problem is that, except for Dianne Feinstein, John Conyers and a handful of others, there appear to be no true patriots among the Democratic Party leadership. They give every appearance of being all about getting elected and then keeping their jobs. Unfortunately, that is all their positions seem to be to them--jobs. They obviously don't care if our system has been corrupted and the will of the people thwarted, as long as they keep their fat cat jobs, salaries and benefits.
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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. True Patriots
I committed an egregious omission. I should have specifically mentioned Sen. Barbara Boxer and Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, who had the courage to stand up and oppose certification of Ohio's electoral votes. They are "true blue" Democrats and patriots deserving of special recognition. If only they were not such rarae aves!
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rightfoot Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
22. I don't care who does it, but somebody needs to get serious
I think the dems will be the ones to make something happen. No one else is paying any attention.

I'd like to find out more about who Bob Ney hangs out with.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ths is my favorite post in a long time.
You are 100% right. And the same logic and same question can be applied to the many other kinds of outrages of the last five years for which dem leaders are complicit.

I don't think most dems leaders are clueless. Useless yes. Unfortunately, my cynical side tells me that most dem leaders are part of the problem...part of the effort to concentrate wealth...part of the effort to spread empire...part of the alliance with corporations at the expense of the public good.

Over the last 5 years I have formed opinions about the motivations of the mainstream media, the motivations of neocons, the motivations of conservatives, the motivations of global corporations. As grimy and obscene as they are, I understand. However, until recently I could not understand why the opposition party and the dem leaders that control it would continually lay down, give up, be silent, and turn their backs on their constituents. THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE OPPOSITION PARTY!

The whole thing stinks and no one is representing us, the majority of the nation.
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Filius Nullius Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. Sam Irvin and Peter Rodino, we need your lion-heartedness
Peter Rodino, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee that considered articles of impeachment against President Richard Nixon, died yesterday. Nixon was steadily assembling his own fascist plutocracy some 30 years before Bush II. History would probably have been very different if journalists like Woodward and Bernstein and Democrats like Sam Irvin and Peter Rodino had been as timid and irresolute as today's media and Democratic leadership. Where are their modern day counterparts? Sadly, they are nowhere to be seen.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
24. Fillius Nullius, Great Post
Edited on Sat May-07-05 09:26 PM by autorank

You inspired me to write this to the DNC at their website:
Send DEAN a Message on Election Fraud
Dear Chairman Dean:

I have carefully studied the arguments and evidence regarding election fraud in the 2004 election. I am also a worker for and contributor to the DNC, the Kerry Campaign, various PACS,General Clark, etc. etc.

I must tell you that the DNC looks just pathetic by ignoring the highly credible claims of election fraud in Ohio and elsewhere. The top down statistical analysis by impartial academics and professionals is enough to prompt a serious fraud investigation.

Why is the DNC being so timid on the issue? Do you really think we can win any elections if the fraud goes un investigated and unchallenged.

Please do something and get the new guard in to look at this. I'm tired of giving to and belonging to a party that just rolls over and cries when it gets mugged.

With much anticipation of a positive response,

Grand Poobaa
Minister of Truth
State of Grace
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FreepFryer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
26. You presume because the case hasn't been brought on, that it won't.
Edited on Sat May-07-05 09:42 PM by FreepFryer
I disagree. These things are real and real behind-the-scenes battles are being fought about them.

Politicians aren't walking into buzzsaws to make the point, however. The CIA opposed the 'intelligence' claims of the Bush administration, and got purged. Daschle and the Dems threaten not to vote for the Patriot Act, and they get anthrax and ultimately, sign without reading it.

We should be less than shocked that this issue is taking some time to emerge.

Your restatement of the facts is a vital contribution - and I thank you.

Your outrage is a crucial part of the reform that we will bring - and I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and share your outrage.

Have courage.

Believe in yourself.

Believe in this community.

Believe in America.

We will overcome this era of greed with compassion, patience and ruthless pursuit of the truth.
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks all for this great thread--kick
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pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
28. It's like a newspaper photo blown up 1000 times.
Most of us are looking at one little part of the picture trying to prove that this or that random pattern of black dots means something, but when you step back and look at the whole thing it is obvious. The big picture is so clear, it boggles the mind. The face of election fraud emerging out of the dots looks like a giant chimp with a smirk. You've built a great case by touching on many areas of suspicion, and you've only scratched the surface.

The questions I want answers to are:

Which Democrats are complicit in this? I heard someone compare Democrats to the Washington Generals who were paid to always lose to the Harlem Globetrotters.

Which Democrats are just in denial?

Which Democrats are afraid?

Which Republicans were in on it?

Is it a crime for a politician to know massive election fraud did happen and yet not say anything to the citizens?
If that's the case then we are talking about a whole lot of criminals in both parties.

Just a few of the things you did not mention:

The death of Holt's bill HR2239 which would have implemented a paper trail well before the election but was killed by Delay and Hastert.

Why did they kill the paper trail if they weren't going to cheat?

Clint Curtis' sworn testimony (and recently passed polygraph test) regarding Feeny and the effort to steal the vote in Florida.

99 out of 100 "glitches" favoring Bush.

Of course the list goes on and on and on.

I keep asking myself; how many f*cking smoking guns do we need for the media to wake up? But then this week I truly gave up any glimmer of hope for media coverage when the story of the British memo regarding Bush and Blair's secret plans to attack Iraq received literally zero coverage in the US while the runaway bride and Michael Jackson were on every channel.

Let's not forget the Dems like Conyers and Boxer fighting the good fight, but let's face it both sides are harboring the guilty, whether they are paid winners or paid losers.

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Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-08-05 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
29. Great Post ......should be on the front page
Conyers and a handful of others but other than that crickets........Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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