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Let's assume Congress and President were not elected. Now what.

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SophieZ Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 12:59 PM
Original message
Let's assume Congress and President were not elected. Now what.
Edited on Wed Apr-13-05 01:03 PM by SophieZ
This piece by Jonathan Simon states it succinctly.

Appalling catch-22.

There is a great deal of evidence, both statistical and "hard," that vote counting, the bedrock protocol of our democracy, has been subverted; that the avowedly partisan right-wing corporations that build, program, and service the computerized vote recording and counting equipment have been given a free hand to determine the outcome of elections; that this happened in 2002 and 2004 (at least) and will continue to happen indefinitely, since the ruling regime cannot be forced to effectively reform the system (and thereby kill the goose that is laying their golden eggs) if rigging has taken away the people's power to defeat them at the polls (this is the appalling catch-22 we face).

We who have unearthed and analyzed the evidence have been ruthlessly spun into "conspiracy theorists" and marginalized, with the cooperation (sometimes enthusiastic, sometimes unwitting) of essentially the entire mainstream media.
It appears that revelation of fundamental and massive fraud in the American electoral process, and of course the gross illegitimacy of the ruling regime, would be too devastating to the social, political, and economic structures (consider, e.g., the dollar) upon which this strong and fat nation has come to rely. It is maddenly clear that those who have engineered the stealthy takeover of the election process have taken this into account, recognizing that they have little to fear from the evidence that does emerge because the entire system will, perhaps unwittingly, cooperate to resist the "disaster" of exposure.


--Jonathan D. Simon, writing in response to a Washington Post op-ed, around 4-10-05, quoted in an email from Mark Crispin Miller.

Okay. This thread is not for ANY discussion of whether or not elections were flawed or full of fraud.

Let's just discuss.

Assumptions for this thread:

1. Significant numbers of members of Congress were NOT elected, and they will NOT be responsive to citizen input.

2. Bush was NOT elected.

3. The biggest media will NOT discuss proof of election fraud, except in the most isolated, cordoned off instances ("Woman casts vote for husband! Mercy!").

Okay. If that is true, then what tools do we use to get our democracy back?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. They govern by our consent. So, if they break the form our consent takes,
the vote, then we go to general strike.
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. One way
keep spreading the word. It seems to be working.(Machines decertified in PA)(Florida looking into paper ballots)
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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. There are great resources for HOW to conduct nonviolent resistance at the
Albert Einstein Institution.
I also propose people get copies of the VHS 2-tape PBS series "A Force More Powerful" which shows nonviolent resistance actions that worked in Poland, Denmark (WWII), Chile when they dumped Pinochet, India with the salt marches, and other practical successful actions.

Gene Sharp's books are irreplaceable resources. THey are cheap or available for download and I suggest strongly that anyone interested in doing anything about this mess get their hands on at least From Dictatorship to Democracy and The AntiCoup as well as the Methods of Nonviolent Resistance.

Kim Bobo's Organizing for Social Change is also invaluable. It is only about 15$ at powells, was 45. when I had to buy it.
Stay in touch! Aloha!

From the Website:
"The Albert Einstein Institution is a nonprofit organization advancing the study and use of strategic nonviolent action in conflicts throughout the world.

We are committed to the defense of freedom, democracy, and the reduction of political violence through the use of nonviolent action.

Our goals are to understand the dynamics of nonviolent action in conflicts, to explore its policy potential, and to communicate this through print and other media, translations, conferences, consultations, and workshops."http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations.php3?orgid=88&ty...

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mahina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Remember that nonviolent resistance was chosen by Ghandi and King
for reasons of practical advantage as much as any other reason.
It works.
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SophieZ Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Okay. Here's an organization that counsels on tax resistance.
The IRS doesn't exactly broadcast the fact that a number of people withhold some of their taxes, as an objection to the warmaking that goes on with our money.

But, Free Speech Radio News DID. Yesterday.

Free Speech Radio News
Tuesday, April 12, 2005
Resisting the War Tax (4:45) by Martha Baskin
(You can listen here -- about 22 minutes into the broadcast.) http://www.fsrn.org/news/20050412_news.html

It's estimated that as many as 10,000 people are resisting paying their portion of the "war tax" from their annual income. With tax day, April 15, just around the corner, Martha Baskin takes a look at this element of the anti-war movement.

She mentioned this organization in particular. They provide counseling, and a way to redirect tax money to peaceful purposes, as a form of civil disobedience:

The Conscience and Military Tax Campaign Escrow Account http://seanacc.org/escrowaccount.htm

from their website:

NACC's Conscience and Military Tax Campaign (CMTC) Escrow Account has worked since 1979 to assert U.S. taxpayers' rights of conscience. The account helps to support those who refuse to pay for war and preparations for war, and who wish for their taxes to be used only for peaceful, life-affirming purposes.

NACC maintains an office in Seattle; from which it administers the Escrow Account; makes grants to local, national, and international community groups from the interest accruing to the account; counsels War Tax Resisters and prospective War Tax Resisters; conducts War Tax Resistance workshops; responds to WTR inquiries from the media and the general public; and publishes a biannual newsletter and WTR-related literature. NACC supports passage of the Peace Tax Fund Bill through Congress, and is an affiliate of the National War Tax Resistance Coordinating Committee <http://nwtrcc.org/ > (NWTRCC), and the War Resisters League <http://warresisters.org/ > (WRL).

NACC's long-run goal is the redirection of Federal spending away from the military and towards the meeting of human needs. War Tax Resistance is a powerful form of nonviolent direct action towards this end.

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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Prescription to restore our democracy
1. Recognize that our stolen elections are a root cause that must be addressed before all other issues or concerns
a. For all progressives, democrats and liberals: Put aside differences and different interests and concentrate solely on regaining our votes - do this and we will win this year! (Clint Curtis made this point effectively at the Nashville conference)

2. Inform and educate the American people through alternative channels
b. We did this last year to bring out 64 million voters to unseat George Bush. We can do it again using meetups, teach-ins, alternative news services and local media, phone, email and fax campaigns, etc.

3. Confront and challenge misinformation, misdirection and the wall of silence
a. Do not sit still for the silence and cover-up. Be insistent. persistent, and loud - write elected officials and news outlets, post flyers and signs, talk to your neighbors, wear protest garb (a shameless plug for The Protest Store) be a pest (a good-natured pest). Refuse to lie down and take it; stand up and fight instead!

4. Do NOT trust the powerful
a. Their self-interests supersede those of our country
b. Be suspicious of everything they do

5. Organize and mobilize your community to protest
a. As an outgrowth of educating and informing, give people things they can do and help them do it: spread the word; organized protests; email/phone campaigns; local precinct/county 2004 vote audits; more teach-ins & meetups; directed teach-ins for political party affiliates, schools, election workers and officials.
b. Most local media will cover our cause if you give them something to cover (like a protest, conference, or teach-in)

6. Let your outrage out!
a. Political correctness will NOT work. Refuse to be appeased until our democracy is restored. This is not subject to compromise.
b. Concentrate on the 64 millions of us who tried to evict George Bush. That's enough to get the job done.
c. Don't leave Republicans out AND don't be subdued around them. Remember, Republicans had their party stolen before we had our elections, country, and democracy stolen.
d. Don't rely on or wait for the Democratic Party. Many Democratic politicians are NOT on our side and cannot be trusted. In fact, those that obstruct us should be driven from office. The DNC will have to follow if they want to survive.
e. This needs to be a citizen's uprising. Take no prisoners; accept no compromise!

Leave the national media in the dark
a. Corporate mass media ignores the truth so ignore them. As our movement grows, they will find themselves out in the cold (where they belong).
b. Local media, alternate media, and grassroots efforts will work in place of mass media schills.
c. Picket and boycott the national media and their sponsors instead. They are whores and, one day, will face a citizen's tribunal to answer to for their crimes against our democracy.

We will not win the second American revolution without a critical mass of Americans or by settling on just one approach. This is and must be a citizen's uprising, a second American Revolution.


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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Great ideas Kip, but I wouldn't give up on the MSM just yet
Edited on Wed Apr-13-05 05:55 PM by tommcintyre
Suddenly, we seem to be getting some breakthroughs with the MSM. My guess is it has to do with Bush's falling approval numbers. A few are getting braver, and I wouldn't be surprised if more and more join the "chorus" as the momentum builds. (Remember how they were slaughtering him last spring, with Richard Clarke, Abu Gahreb, etc.?).

Look at some of the threads here now:
MSNBC/REUTERS on lawsuit to terminate Sequoia
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

BRADBLOG: Miami Herald discusses Clint Curtis! Calls for Paper Ballots
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
"Can it be that we are breaking through the curtain of silence? Are our newspaper people getting their spines back??"

Maybe the infamous "lockdown memo" is being repealed? Well... let's assume it is, and keep peppering them with information. ;)

EDIT:
I'm definitely with ya on "C" though:

c. Picket and boycott the national media and their sponsors instead. They are whores and, one day, will face a citizen's tribunal to answer to for their crimes against our democracy.


I haven't watched those "sellouts" since 11/2.

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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Perhaps not giving up on them - just don't waste a lot of time...
The National media will follow us in the end (its their nature). We need to pin no hopes or expend great time or energy in pursuing their recognition or approval. Let them wallow in their imposed silence then play catch up. Local media WILL cover us - concentrate there!

PS> I don't put BradBlog in this category at all: he is a citizen journalist forced into doing the national media's job in their absence. He is a true patriot and I am forever grateful for his dedication, effort, and eloquence!
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LatePeriduct Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Avatar says it all
Could also be

Live Free, Lie Bold
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SophieZ Donating Member (254 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Good stuff, Kip.
And, this is a guy who doesn't just talk, he walks the walk -- organized the 51 Capital march!

Thanks!
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. THIS POST NEEDS ITS OWN THREAD..N/T
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
7. Be persistent and patient... and TAKE ACTION!
Edited on Wed Apr-13-05 04:49 PM by tommcintyre
It really is working! The steady drip... drip... drip... of our seemingly small actions are wearing them down. The fact that we are still here is definitely having an effect.

Even though they have much power, we have the advantage in the long run. We are on the side of truth - they are not. It takes tremendous energy for them to maintain their dishonest facade - and relatively much less effort for us to advance our truthful cause.

All we need to do is continue creating legitimate doubt that the election was valid. And our persistent actions are doing just that!

So:

- Keep looking for actions to take in this forum.

- Follow all the excellent suggestions in this thread.

- Go here and participate:
http://www.solarbus.org/election/links.shtml#action
"Take Action"
# 2/26: Divestment campaign to end electronic voting machine fraud is launched
# Urge your Senators to co-sponsor the "Count Every Vote" Act.
# Nationwide "Our Election Was Stolen" protest - May 1st
# Volunteers needed to help save our democracy
# Election Action page on Common Cause
# Election Action page on Voters Unite
# Election Action page on Verfied Voting
# Action page at the National Ballot Integrity Project
# Action page at Velvet Revolution
# Red Hands Movement listing protests

And, if you start wondering if it will ever be right again, remember:

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS. - Gandhi

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Count Every Vote Act
Edited on Wed Apr-13-05 11:06 PM by Bill Bored
Although there are a number of problems with this and the other federal bills, here's why we should support any bill that requires a voter-verified paper record, ballot or audit trail:

1. Because without them, we got nothin'!

2. No one should be claiming that this is a panacea, but with the paper records as the official vote in the event of any recount or audit, followed by a grass roots campaign to GET THE VOTERS TO ACTUALLY VERIFY THEM (which is the next step in case you haven't figured that out yet), we have a chance of deterring, discovering and correcting election fraud.

3. Sure it might cost a few bucks for recounts, and recount laws need to be used in each state where there is a question, but at least recounts will be POSSIBLE. Without the paper, they are impossible.

4. Sure there will be Blackwells and Hoods trying to blackball and hoodwink us, but if the Democrats refuse to comply with them, recounts may be possible to obtain in a timely manner in the courts. What will be needed is a way to convince the judges that the machines cannot be trusted and therefore their initial counts are automatically suspect. After that, it's just a matter of money. Kerry had lots of it for recounts, it just wasn't spent. If this is any indication, we should be able to raise as much as we need. This is why the Repukes will attempt to block voter-verified paper ANYTHING, but if it can be had at the state level, things may change.

Meanwhile I will support Rush Holt's HR550 and Clinton/Boxer/Kerry's Count Every Vote Act, with no delusions that it will solve all our problems, or even provide truly secure elections. A paper trail is better than no trail at all.

Start thinking about how to get your fellow voters to actually LOOK AT the paper through clever ad campaigns, etc. It may be more fun to watch the Tee Vee (i.e., Touch Screen) than to read a book (i.e., the paper record) but we need the voters to do both for any of this to work!
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keepthemhonest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sounds like alot of really good ideas above
and many good positive posters too.the message I keep hearing from everyone is, be the media. We all have to spread the word anyway we can.

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-14-05 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. The problem I am
Worried about is the media silence, which would make them guilty in a conspiracy of treason after the fact. I don't think they will let the truth be known because it would implicate them for their silence. Mutual blackmail. Great idea Rove...

So, that only leaves the courts, but here is the problem... how many citizens would it take to file a class action before someone thought it worthy to actually investigate?

One more item of note... would it be a crime in this day and age to ask for foreign support? Purely philosophical of course and really, who the hell would we ask, Canada?
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LatePeriduct Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. Now you gotta take on them....
I'm referring to the CFR good ol council of foreign relations.

Everybody's worse conspiracy dream until you wake up and see, yes they are the non-partisans who control the whole media.

But then once the CFR goes down, the whole movement will still ressurect itself unless you can expose the central core.

Oh man I don't like to have to say this....the central core is a cult, linked to everything including all the centers for public policy. They own the CFR its in their pocket.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. No tools we can discuss here.
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LatePeriduct Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
18. All that's been said, plus this:
Crooked local election officials can be removed through criminal proceedings. Investigate these officials and urge your local DA or AG to file charges against public officials who have broken the law, including Registrars of Voters, Secretaries of State, and elected officials supporting voter suppression or electoral fraud.

Some of the Congressional Reps can also be taken down through criminal proceedings in their home states; Tom Delay may soon become the prime example of this. Dishonest officials might also be pressured to resign.

If these slots are filled by appointment, it provides an opportunity to bypass the machines and get honest officials in place.



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LatePeriduct Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-17-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes I think thats where it starts....
Kaplan of Florida, and the corrupt admins in Ohio have already been punished. They could even be arrested just like the voting company employees who helped.

But it will really start to crack once a high member like Tom Feeney gets dragged away.....Then they will become really angry, and their fear will drive them into the hands of justice.
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LatePeriduct Donating Member (660 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
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Mister Ed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-18-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
22. The tool is Truth, and all of you are wielding it most effectively...
I am awestruck - genuinely awestruck - at the accomplishments of the activists whose work is described daily in these pages. You are constructing, brick by brick, a ponderous edifice of fact that will not be denied or ignored.

It is not within the power of the corporate media to conceal the truth you are unearthing, any more than it was within the power of Pravda to conceal the awful realities of the Soviet regime from the people of the USSR. Keep on. You are moving slowly, but inexorably, toward triumph.
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