Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

FBI getting involved in the Fla vote fraud ?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:31 PM
Original message
FBI getting involved in the Fla vote fraud ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ah good. Nothing breeds open-ness and public knowledge like the FBI.
Edited on Tue Nov-09-04 04:33 PM by aden_nak
Ah, I am just kidding. Hey, if the FBI is looking into it, it at least causes more people to accept that it's real.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do You Smell the Stink?
The dust has barely settled on what in America passes for a democratic election, and already the air is heavy from the smoking guns in Ohio and at Election Fraud Central (Florida). Crucial to the Bush Election Juggernaut is the smear campaign against exit polls, which are consistently accurate to less than 2% and often to 0.1%. Exit polls were done in 18 states throughout the voting cycle including sets of 4 each in Ohio and Florida which showed John Kerry winning comfortably to a statistical probability of victory of 99.9982%.

Of course that does not prove fraud but it sets off alarms all over the landscape. Consider the following: (1) Exit polls closely correlated with vote tallies in every state except in those states using electronic BBV machines (no paper trail) or combinations including BBVs; and (2) in every instance of exit poll and vote tally discrepancy, G.W. Bush was the recipient of the extra votes and never John Kerry. This amounted to +6 in Ohio and +7 in Florida.

Given the relentless closeness of this election, it is likely that the 4 million Bush plurality is an Electoral WMD. Destruction of voter Democratic registration forms was documented involving tens of thousands especially in NV and the Pacific Northwest. The first sign of trouble in OH was the Cuyahoga County tally showing Kerry winning by only 2:1 instead of 3-4:1. The enormous Democratic wards delivered the vote with people waiting up to 10 hours (which people dont do to vote for an incumbent). Vote skimming is easily done with the Diebold computers and the CEO is an avowed Bush supporter, so forgive my cynicism.

In the Bush Family Fiefdom (Florida) the optical scanning computers are centrally processed and easily configured to miscount. Ballot cramming is also easily done and Ohio has more than 93,000 more votes than registered voters with Florida taking the prize at 234,000+. Recently, a Mr. Fisher in Florida has submitted to the FBI evidence which he claims proves that the Florida machines were hacked, who did it, how it was done, and how the same group used 2002 as a trial run to perfect their technique.

Any voting method not leaving a permanent paper trail that can be verified by audit is a felony on Democracy and should be outlawed (blackboxvoting.org). I believe that votes should be recounted in Ohio and Florida, not necessarily with an intention to overturn the results, but to validate the truth which is the soul of democracy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. DOJ looked into the irregularities after the 2000 election.
And found scattered problems, but no systemic attempt at disenfranchisement. They'll likely use that same report this time, why waste the effort of creating a new document?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Thanks...agree 100%
"Any voting method not leaving a permanent paper trail that can be verified by audit is a felony on Democracy and should be outlawed (blackboxvoting.org). I believe that votes should be recounted in Ohio and Florida, not necessarily with an intention to overturn the results, but to validate the truth which is the soul of democracy."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. Honestly, I think the single biggest smoking gun
is that within just hours, the "oh, we told Republicans to lie to the posters," was being floated as an excuse. And then, "they oversampled women," and then "Kerry supporters were more enthusiastic."

Simply -- that's bullshit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. That was posted on Thom's site this weekend. Any new info about this?
I just saw the post on the site, didn't see any comment from Mike...did he say something elsewhere?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. HOT!! Florida U.S. House Rep. says he has evidence of hacked voting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solitaire Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Saturday's news...
This was from Saturday, is there any new info on this?

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LagunaSlick Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. Voter Fraud and Shocking Statistics
Greetings All,

I researched this one pretty thoroughly and while, at first look, the numbers are startling, if you go back in history by reviewing the county by county results for prior presidential elections (I did, going back to 1976) you will see that the rural Florida counties, while registered democratic, disproportionately voted republican in every election I looked at. There's a name for them. They're called "Dixiecrats."

For example, the article below cites Baker County:

> In Baker County, for example, with 12,887 registered voters, 69.3% of
> them Democrats and 24.3% of them Republicans, the vote was only 2,180
> for Kerry and 7,738 for Bush, the opposite of what is seen everywhere
> else in the country where registered Democrats largely voted for Kerry.

In 2000 they voted: 5,610 for Bush and 2,392 for Gore In 1996 they voted: 3,684 for Dole and 2,273 for Clinton (+ 667 for Perot) In 1992 they voted: 3,417 for Bush and 1,974 for Clinton In 1988 they voted: 3,414 for Bush and 1,353 for Dukakis In 1984 they voted: 3,484 for Reagan and 1,381 for Mondale ... and so on.

You can get all of the stats here: http://www.politicsnationwide.com/electionresults.asp

If the columns of total county votes for Republicans and Democrats where swapped at the tabulation stage (as inferred below), don't you think that we would hear from at least one of the 30 to 40 elections observers from the counties supposedly affected about such a startling discrepancy? Plus, this is one that would be trivial to disprove. The op-scan ballots are sitting in boxes and can quite easily be recounted and verified. Any successful scam would have to be much more clever that this.

As for the differences in party loyalty correlation between e-voting and op-scan, it is merely an artifact of the above voting pattern. E-voting was applied in the cities and op-scan voting elsewhere.

Believe me, I would love to believe that Kerry won and I am researching all the fraud angles vigorously, but as a trained statistician I know that sometimes patterns in numbers are not what you think they are.

Feel free to argue with me if you like! I don't mind. ;-)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. But
That doesn't explain the discrepancy in the exit polls vs the reported results. And it is a smoke screen about the Kerry supporters being more vocal about their choice than bushies. If registered dems voting for bush were to ashamed to talk to pollsters that would skew the exit polls with its weighting to be higher for bush.
I think you hit the nail on the head about it being too obvious, the best way to do something is out in the open with a little misdirection. Recounts would be hard to get so they most likely would not get exposed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LagunaSlick Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. What a useless response
Thank you for "welcoming" me to the world of posting on DU. As my post concerned actual data analysis on publicly available information I would hope that you could argue based on facts as presented as opposed to discounting it based on the fact that I haven't spent all my waking hours in the past 6 months posting here.

If you really have something to say on the topic, please do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StatGirl Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. But look at the medium and large counties
I've been putting all of the 2004 Florida data into a spreadsheet, and I agree that the data from the small counties aren't interpretable for the reasons that you say. But if you ignore those counties, and fit the following regression model to the medium and large counties:

Dependent variable = Pct of vote going to Bush

Independent variables =
Pct of registered voters who are Democrats
Pct of registered voters who are not Democrats or Republicans
County Size
(medium = 20-125K registered voters, large=125-1060K registered voters)
Type of machine
Interactions (removing non-significant interactions in a stepwise fashion)

Then it looks as if:

1.) The relationship (slope) between % registered Dems and % votes for Bush is about -1 regardless of machine type and county size

2.) The relationship (slope) between % registered independents and % votes for Bush differs by county size but not machine type

2.) For medium *and* large sized counties, controlling for county size and % registered Democrats and Independents, the counties with Op-scan machines have about 4 percentage points more going to Bush than the counties with the E-touch machines.

Now, I know nothing about Florida, so it's quite possible that there's some other confounding factor here. But I think the focus may need to be on the larger counties, because, face it, that's where the votes are.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LagunaSlick Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Medium and Large Counties
I agree that we should be looking there. Even assuming the "big fraud" of switching the columns in the small counties it still falls far short of a win for Kerry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Picture takin
When I went out to vote someone was down at the pollin place with a camera taken everyones picture, kinda actin like they weren't you know. Sorta lookin around and such. We knew what was goin on though. Had my cat hooch with me and they said he couldn't come in. So I had to leave him in the car.
 Add to my Journal Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Hi kerrywon!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
coreystone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. NOW!...Let's find a way that it will make a differnce come ....
January 20, 2005!

:-)


:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-09-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. isnt ashcroft resignation suspicious now with the fbi investigating
the election fraud?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 20th 2019, 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC