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HELDERHEID, this is for you! Quick summary of 2004 Election Fraud!

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:32 AM
Original message
HELDERHEID, this is for you! Quick summary of 2004 Election Fraud!
Edited on Mon Feb-21-05 04:41 AM by Peace Patriot
I caught up with your discussion with emlev in the forum about Jon Stewart two hours later, and I'm posting this separately to make sure you see it.

Here's how I would start--and everything I would say:

-------

Gore 2000 repeat voters + huge Democratic new voter registration in 2004 (Dems 57%, Repubs 41%) + huge jump of Nader voters to Kerry = a 4 to 8 million vote margin for Kerry that inexplicably disappeared on election day. (--2nd report by Dr. Steven Freeman.)

This margin was virtually unsurmountable--by Bush--as every other statistic shows:

Kerry won both the national and state exit polls by a margin of 3%. (USCountvotes report, by 9 Ph.D.'s, and all other expert reports.)

Impossible skew to Bush in the official results vs. the exit polls, unaccountable by any conceivable bias in the exit polls--conservative odds of 1 in 10 million against the Bush win (confirmed by numerous Ph.D.'s and expert statisticians putting their reputations on the line to say so publicly in peer reviewed reports, including the USCountvotes report).

The UCCountvotes report, by 9 Ph.D.'s at leading universities, also indicates that Kerry's margin was even larger than the exit poll 3%, since the exit polls were actually skewed to favor Bush (the exact opposite of what was reported in the news!).

Skew to Bush in electronic voting vs. other methods in No. Carolina (--Democratic Underground analysis)

Skew to Bush in electronic voting vs. other methods in FLA. (--UC Berkeley statistics dept, study headed by Dr. Michael Haut)

Skew to Bush in electronic voting vs. other methods at the precinct level (USCountvotes report, by 9 Ph.D.'s).

Secret source code in the central electronic vote tabulators, held as proprietary info. by BushCon companies (two companies, Diebold and ES&S, one run by Bush-Cheney campaign chair in Ohio, the other by a billionaire rightwing nut), no paper trail, and no recount or audit possible, in a third of the voting machines in the country--all conditions for fraud insisted upon by Republican politicians and electronic voting machine company salesmen.

Electronic voting machines proven to be extremely insecure, unreliable and hackable.

All reported vote suppression incidents were perpetrated by Republican election officials and Republican operatives against Democratic voters, mostly minorities. One investigator estimates that 2 million minority votes were suppressed.

57,000 incidents of machine malfunction or vote suppression lodged with Congress--virtually all favoring Bush and hurting Kerry.

Many reports of touchscreen electronic voting machines changing Kerry votes to Bush votes, and none the other way around--huge odds against this.

The intense BushCon efforts to skew the election in such baldfaced, illegal ways in Ohio, Florida and several other key states indicates their fear of Kerry's big new voter registration advantage and the enthusiasm of the grass roots campaign. It was looking like a Kerry blowout--so they had to use every fraud plan they had in place.

Bush's approval ratings prior to the election were dismal - hovering around 50% - not possible for a sitting president to be elected with such low approval ratings, according to highly reputed pollster, Zogby.

Bush's approval ratings today remain dismal - hovering around 50% - dipping to 48% on his Inauguration Day!--an unprecedented "vote of no confidence" by the American people in a recently "re-elected" president.

Americans greatly disapprove of Bush's major policies (nearly 60% disapprove of the Iraq war, now, today--and 63% disapprove of torture under any circumstances).

---------

And here is the documentation. Note: In some DU postings of urls, DU cuts off the end of the url, so that you must click to the original to obtain the full url. This list attempts to overcome that program and give you the full url. In order to do so, I've put a space after the point at which DU cuts it off and have added the missing end part. In cutting and pasting, remove the ". . . " and the space, in order to get the full url. (And note, on the Baiman url, only one number was cut off the end, the number 7. Same is true of the Johns Hopkins url, only the number 5 is cut off.)

Exit poll analysis: Astronomical odds against the Bush win.

Dr. Steven Freeman: http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm

Dr. Ron Baiman: http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/99 ... 7

Dr. Webb Mealy: http://www.selftest.net/redshift.htm

Jonathan Simon:http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00142.htm

Nine Ph.D's from leading universities call for investigation of 2004 Election:
http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/USCountVotes_Re_ ... Mitofsky-Edison.pdf

Florida: 130,000 to 230,000 phantom votes for Bush--paper vs. electronic voting:
Dr. Michael Haut & UC Berkeley statistics team: http://ucdata.berkeley.edu

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse):
(North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 9% edge to Bush in electronic:)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x45003

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAl)l: "To believe Bush won, you have to believe"

Part 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1316010

Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1358806

Part 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x197878

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): The Time Zone Discrepancy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x318693

Johns Hopkins report on insecurity of electronic voting:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00196.htm# ... 5

Easy demo of the how insecure voting machines are:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm

"Myth Breakers: Facts About Electronic Elections" (2nd edition): www.votersunite.org

Ohio vote suppression: http://www.bpac.info

Documentation of widespread machine fraud and dirty tricks in over 20 states:
http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

Greg Palast, "Kerry Won": http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

In progress compilations of various articles and materials on 2004 Election Fraud:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x311105

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=304579

-------

Note: The credentials of the Ph.D.'s who have studied this matter and have spoken out publicly is extraordinarily impressive. All of the Dr.'s mentioned above are tops in their field, at leading universities. In addition, here is the list of Ph.D.'s who did the USCountvotes report:

Josh Mitteldorf, Ph.D. - Temple University Statistics Department
Steven F. Freeman, PhD - Center for Organizational Dynamics, University of Pennsylvania
Brian Joiner, PhD - Prof. of Statistics and Director of Statistical Consulting (ret), University of Wisconsin
Frank Stenger, PhD in mathematics - School of Computing, University of Utah
Richard G. Sheehan, PhD - Department of Finance, University of Notre Dame
Elizabeth Liddle, MA - (UK) PhD candidate at the University of Nottingham
Paul F. Velleman, Ph.D. - Department of Statistical Sciences, Cornell University
Victoria Lovegren, Ph.D. - Department of Mathematics, Case Western Reserve University
Campbell B. Read, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, Department of Statistical Science, Southern Methodist University
Kathy Dopp, MS in mathematics - USCountVotes, President
Also Peer Reviewed by USCountVotes core group of statisticians and independent reviewers.

------

One last bit of info. Jonathan Simon, one of the leading analysts of the exit polls will be speaking at the Oakland, CA, ELECTION RIGGING TEACH-IN, Sat. Feb. 26. Here's the url for that event:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. THANK YOU
I will get this off to the "right peeps". THANK YOU!!!
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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. Amazing Post! Kudos!

Kickin' For The Truth!

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
66. NOTE TO ALL VISITORS TO THIS DISCUSSION: url problem solved...plus...
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 06:22 PM by Peace Patriot
The problems with the URLs in this main post (the documentation list) were solved, in Post #15, below, by poster WeHoldTheseTruths. Go there for a complete, accessible list of the documentation-- if you are having problems with the URLs (and skip all the rest of the discussion about this matter). (I was trying to be helpful--in the way I posted them--but I wasn't very.)

-----

I'm amending the list of documents as follows:

---

(--adding this item)

TV networks alteration of the Exit Polls to fit the "official tally" (and Zogby prediction of a Kerry win):
http://www.exitpollz.org /

---

(--adding their press release)

Florida: 130,000 to 230,000 phantom votes for Bush--paper vs. electronic voting:
Dr. Michael Haut & UC Berkeley statistics team: http://ucdata.berkeley.edu
Press release: http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1118-14.htm

---

(--giving complete title of the article)

Greg Palast, "Kerry Won-just count the votes at the back of the bus":
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

---

(--adding this item)

57,000 machine malfunction/vote suppression complaints to Congress:
http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=3961

---

(--for Dr. Freeman, adding the titles of his reports, and an article url)

Dr. Steven Freeman: http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm
"The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy"
"Hypotheses for Explaining the Exit Poll-Official Count Discrepancy in the 2004 US Presidential Election"
Article http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1970

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Great analysis, you might want to add the work of Dr Richard Hayes Phillip
and Dr Bob Fitrakis <freepress.org> as well.

We know we won the election, our problem is we have an incompetent msm and a government willing to cheat and lie and not willing to relinquish power.
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WeHoldTheseTruths Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Kick
That would be Richard Hayes Phillips, Ph.D

All of his work available at his web site,
http://web.northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm

and

http://www.freepress.org/index2.php -- Front page of Free Press org

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19 -- Elections

----
Kicking this fine work by Peace Patriot.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. MSM isn't incompetent.
They're just fulfilling their responsibility to the Corporate State.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. Not only is MSM complicit and has been for years, Mitofsky is too. See
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
25. You MUST check this out:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
5. Nominated - everybody needs a clear view of the problem. Good work! nt
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. me too
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MellowOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Totally Amazing!
Even with all the overwhelming apparent fraud, Bush and Co knew they could scam the American public. Most Americans don't want to believe or even hear that such a thing like election fraud can happen.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. The exit polls were CHANGED by the TV networks!
Here's one thing I forgot to add--but it's very important to the emotional situation around this issue.

The TV networks CHANGED the exit polls--the numbers that everyone was watching on their TV screens throughout the day--"altered" these polls to make them fit the "official resullts." Thus, most Americans DID NOT KNOW that Kerry won the exit polls!

This prevented a revolution. I consider it the worst journalistic crime of our age--bar none. There is no excuse for it. Exit polls are used worldwide to verify elections and check for fraud. In the US on 11/2, we were TESTING OUT a whole new system of voting nationally for the first time. There were news stories about peoples' suspicions about electronic voting, TV demonstrations of hackability, Johns Hopkins and CalTech/MIT reports on insecurity. The situation CRIED OUT for verification. They didn't do it. They are malfeasant.

In the Ukraine, they could see the two separate figures--the exit polls vs. the official results--and knew that something was very wrong. And this is the way they do it in every other democratic country--exit polls are used for COMPARISON to the official results. But not here. Our TV networks hid the evidence of a wrong outcome.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I just sent her a followup with this
as well as the link to the video at velvetrevolution.us . I told her she would not be hearing anything more from me about this (since I only know her as an acquaintance).
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. Mitofsky AND the media are complicit and have been for years. See this:
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Gotta see this. It's much bigger than even we thought:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm writing her now but...
These are not only cut off but do not open to the right discussions:

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse):
(North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 9% edge to Bush in electronic :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x45003

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAl)l: "To believe Bush won, you have to believe"

Part 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1316010

Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1358806

Part 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x197878

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): The Time Zone Discrepancy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x318693

Johns Hopkins report on insecurity of electronic voting:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00196.htm# ... 5

Any help would be great in figuring out where they should open. :)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I'll check out these urls right now, and see what the problem is. n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Several of them have an extra "h" in them (my error!), thus...
Edited on Mon Feb-21-05 01:57 PM by Peace Patriot
AS IT APPEARS IN MY POST ABOVE:

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse):
(North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 9% edge to Bush in electronic:)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x45003

NOTE the "ph" part (".ph ...hp?"). It should be "php?" not "phhp?".

CORRECTION:

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse):
(North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 9% edge to Bush in electronic:)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.p ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x45003

(I think DU sometimes cuts these off at different points--and I didn't catch it.)

DU link (as it would appear if I hadn't messed with it):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

------

This is obviously the problem with SOME of them. I tested the ignatzmouse one, and it works fine (if you take out the extra "h"). I'll see what's wrong with the others.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. The problem urls WITHOUT the extra "h" problem...
I just tried one of these (no extra "h" problem), and it works fine for me (after I remove the space and the "..."). I do not know what the problem is with these. It's not obvious. But as a temporary measure, I'm just going to list them all here again, each with the DU link (unmessed with by me--so you can directly go there) following my messing around url (extra "h" problem corrected in those that have that problem).

-------

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse):
(North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 9% edge to Bush in electronic)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.p ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x45003

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
(also at:) http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/12/233831/06

-----

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): "To believe Bush won, you have to believe"

Part 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1316010

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1358806

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Part 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=view_all&address=203x197878

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

-----

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): The Time Zone Discrepancy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=view_all&address=203x318693

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

-----

Johns Hopkins report on insecurity of electronic voting:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00196.htm# ... 5

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00196.htm#...

---------

Let me know if you're doing okay with these! Sorry for the problems! (Be sure to remove all spaces and elipses--"..."--and maybe also backspace to remove any paragraph returns?)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I just noticed two more urls with the extra "h" problem. They are...
WRONG

In progress compilations of various articles and materials on 2004 Election Fraud:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x311105

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=304579

----

CORRECTED

In progress compilations of various articles and materials on 2004 Election Fraud:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=view_all&address=203x311105

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=304579

----

DU LINKS (as treated by DU software):

In progress compilations of various articles and materials on 2004 Election Fraud:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

-----------

*****************
*****************

I also just noticed that "WeHoldTheseTruths," below, SOLVED THIS WHOLE PROBLEM in another, simpler way!!!

*****************
*****************

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. DU always cuts off long links so you have to go to the source, copy and
paste the link if you are going to copy something from DU with long links.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. Nice work--a couple of questions and a comment
I haven't heard these two things before. Will you tell me the sources:

1) One investigator estimates that 2 million minority votes were suppressed.

2) 57,000 incidents of machine malfunction or vote suppression lodged with Congress--virtually all favoring Bush and hurting Kerry.

I posted a very different summary (much briefer and only about Ohio and why that's enough) on the thread that spawned this one.

Thanks!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Hi, emlev! Greg Palast is the source of the first (article is cited in...
...the list above). The source of the second is John Conyers--and I cannot recall for sure if it was an interview, letter or report (a letter, I think--because I recall seeing it written--and it seems to me it was later than his letter to the GAO, but I'm scraping my brain here). (I'll see if I can find it.)

There is overwhelming evidence to establish a stolen election from either end--from Ohio to the national scene, or from the national scene to Ohio. I was thinking it might be best to present the national picture to someone like Stewart, who is likely semi-informed. What he may have heard is that John Kerry's people thought there weren't enough votes at issue in Ohio to make a difference. Since the full and real exit poll data only came out later--and all those experts are now on board--the whole thing may make more sense to someone in that condition (semi-informed), at first brush. There was this massive theft going on that no one could see, and that it took analysis to uncover.

The more complicated matter of the Democratic leadership's silence on Wally O'Dell and H.F. Ahmanson having control of the vote count can hit them later (as it did me--no way they didn't know).

Also, if people fixate on Ohio, they may conclude that voting rights legislation is all that's needed--and won't insist on the measures needed to restore our right to vote (paper ballot/hand count, or open source code/VVPB, etc.). We already have a Voting Rights Act. Much of what occurred in Ohio violated that law. So WHO is going to enforce new laws saying the same thing? Alberto Gonzales?

I've been worried about this ever since Jesse Jackson proposed a Constitutional amendment. I can even see the BushCons getting behind such an amendment, because it won't do a thing with BushCons controlling the Justice Dept. , the Courts AND the secret, proprietary source code. And have you seen Conyers' bill? It's very weak on the electronic voting issues.

The main fraud plan was electronic. Ohio was EXTRA. That it came down upon minority voters--especially black voters, whose struggle for voting rights was so long, difficult and grief-filled--is the shame of this era, a national disgrace. Palast believes it is systemic throughout the country, the method being "spoilage." It MUST be remedied. But what's happened with electronic voting--an inherently fraudulent voting SYSTEM--is that we're all now in the same boat, black and white together. They are stealing and suppressing EVERYBODY's votes.

The Ohio fraud is so spectacular that it can serve to focus people's attention on the whole matter of Stolen Election II, but we have to be careful that people don't get diverted by it and fail to seek the RIGHT REMEDIES.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thanks for all that. What do you see as the "right remedies?"
We all need to push our thinking about what strategies make the most sense given the stranglehold of the right wing on the three branches of government.

I'm glad you wrote something with a national focus. I think your piece and mine work nicely together, actually. And for someone who wants documentation, yours is far stronger. I have no attachment to anyone using what I wrote. I spent all of about 15 minutes on it, just skimming what was on the top of my full brain.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. emlev, here's a cite for the 57,000 complaints to Congress...
(see paragraph 4)

http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=3961


GAO to investigate voting irregularities

By William Jackson
GCN Staff 23 November 2004

The General Accountability Office will investigate irregularities in the 2004 general election, including an examination of the security and accuracy of electronic voting machines.

The decision follows requests earlier this month from Democratic congressmen that GAO look into election problems reported to their offices.

In addition to voting technologies, GAO will look into the distribution and allocation of voting machines and counting of provisional ballots. The request initially was spurred by constituent complaints and news reports of problems in California, Florida, North Carolina and Ohio in which thousands of votes were erroneously recorded, d or added.

In a joint statement on the GAO investigation, the representatives said, we will provide copies of specific incident reports received in our offices, including more than 57,000 such complaints provided to the House Judiciary Committee.

New York Rep. Jerrold Nadler placed a form on his Web site to let individuals submit complaints and comments on the election. Nadler, one of the signers of the letters, is the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution.

Nadlers Washington office director, John Doty, said Judiciary Democrats probably would call for hearings early next year on voting rights, technology and standards. Scheduling hearings would be up to the Republican majority. The investigation is not a challenge of the election, Doty said.

Electronic voting has become a hot topic as states begin investing in new voting machines, many of them using computer technology that records votes electronically.

A number of computer scientists and voting rights activists have questioned the security and reliability of machines that record votes electronically with no paper ballots. The computer-based machines are subject to errors in code and security breaches, and no meaningful recount is possible without a separate paper ballot, they said.

State and local governments conduct elections. The federal government historically has not set rules for the nuts and bolts of casting and counting votes. The Help America Vote Act, passed in the wake of the disputed presidential election of 2000, is the federal governments first foray into that area. But HAVAs key requirements do not kick in until 2006, when voting systems used in federal elections will have to provide for error correction by voters, manual auditing, alternative languages and compliance with federal error rate standards.

Work on standards has just begun. The National Institute of Standards and Technology chairs a committee producing voluntary guidelines for developing electronic voting software for the Election Assistance Commission.

The initial requests to GAO were made by Democratic representatives Nadler; John Conyers Jr., Mich.; Robert Wexler, Fla.; Robert Scott, Va.; and Rush Holt, N.J. They have been joined by representatives Melvin Watt, N.C.; John Olver, Mass.; Bob Filner, Calif.; Gregory Meeks, N.Y.; Barbara Lee, Calif.; Tammy Baldwin, Wisc.; Louise Slaughter, N.Y.; and Gregory Miller, Calif.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. The right remedies?
Obviously, there is a LONG LIST of things wrong with our election system and our political system. But I think the first priority has to be regain public control of how our votes are counted.

And I think this is still doable--at the state by state, county by county level--a messy, arduous struggle, needing highly focused grass roots groups working locally--but it's at a level where ordinary people have a bit more clout, and where most people can see through all the DC Bubble B.S. to the basic issues of fairness, honesty and transparency.

Congress is NOT going to remedy the profound and fundamental problem of secret, proprietary source code and unverifiability. They're just not going to do it. The BushCons have deliberately created a vote manufacturing machine for themselves, and they are not going to fix that, and they are not embarrasable. They don't care. And they will block anything that will ensure majority rule in 2006, or any time soon.

That's what I meant by the "right remedies"--merely this:

1. paper ballot, public hand count (and maybe instant posting of the result by precinct, and other transparency and auditing measures )

or, at the very least

2. open source code, voter verified paper ballot that takes precedence over electronic tallies in any recount, and stringent certification and auditing (in essence, banning all privatization).

And we might want to add, honest exit polls specifically for verification. (--got to figure out a way for the public to pay for this, but the sitting gov't and networks to be kept out of it--the German system should be studied).

--------

Also, I think the movement for honest, transparent elections will galvanize the public on all other issues. Right now, the majority is very depressed and disempowered. They need to know that their vote was stolen, and that something can be done about it. And if we can remedy this, we can remedy much else.

Filthy campaign contribution system (THAT's what we need a Constitutional amendment for--banning all money in political campaigns; public financing).

Corporate media control of the PERCEPTION of elections, and control of the political debate--corporate media monopolies, news media a mere government propaganda machine.

Two party stranglehold on the political system = the War Party runs things.

BushCons running rampant over our laws--not just the Voting Rights Act in Ohio and FLA, but so much else--the Constitution, Congressional bar against torture, the Geneva Accords, financial accountability. They've run mad. But we can't control them with any laws until we restore our right to vote.

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Holt bill bans financial and political conflicts of interest between
manufacturers of voting systems, companies that certify these systems and candidates.

Gonzales I am sure will be motivated to see that this is enforced when we get it passed, don't you think?
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
31. Great thoughts. I have questioned the same thing and someone on DU
actually had a thread awhile back to the effect that betweeen the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, we already HAVE laws against most of what happened outside of the e-voting issues. This is why I think the focus really needs to be on e-voting, because all the laws in the world that aren't enforced don't do a thing. It has to be addressed at the level of the ease with which large numbers of votes can be altered.

Have you seen this thread?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.p...
I really wonder if we are making a huge mistake by trying to secure e-voting with legislation (which will be extremely difficult to pass)and if we are not making a mistake by buying into the argument of those who insist we can't have hand counting and therefore shouldn't try for it.
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WeHoldTheseTruths Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. Clickable and Copyable Version of Documentation
I'm not sure how helpful this is, but I'm stubborn, and once I got started . . .

Had to use tinyURL http://tinyurl.com/create.php for some as DU software chews up the URL.

So I think this is clickable (as are most DU posts) AND copy-able (which chewed-up URLs in DU posts are not . . . like if you wanted to copy the post into an e-mail or something).

I have tried to check every link and I think they are OK (now).

Great work on researching and writing this, Peace Patriot!

---------

And here is the documentation.

Exit poll analysis: Astronomical odds against the Bush win.

Dr. Steven Freeman: http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm


Dr. Ron Baiman: (PDF file) http://www.freepress.org/images/departments/997.pdf


Dr. Webb Mealy: http://www.selftest.net/redshift.htm

Jonathan Simon:http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00142.htm

Nine Ph.D's from leading universities call for investigation of 2004 Election (PDF - clickable only in DU post): http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/USCountVotes_Re_...

- or - http://tinyurl.com/6e2yu (PDF -- link may not work using some download accelerators)

Florida: 130,000 to 230,000 phantom votes for Bush--paper vs. electronic voting: Dr. Michael Haut & UC Berkeley statistics team: http://ucdata.berkeley.edu

Democratic Underground (ignatzmouse): (North Carolina: absentee ballot vs. electronic, inexplicable 9% edge to Bush in electronic: http://tinyurl.com/52dzk

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): "To believe Bush won, you have to believe..."

Part 1 http://tinyurl.com/4pucs

Part 2 http://tinyurl.com/4gqg5

Part 3 http://tinyurl.com/6okrm

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): The Time Zone Discrepancy http://tinyurl.com/6u3cg

Johns Hopkins report on insecurity of electronic voting: http://tinyurl.com/6fwug

Easy demo of the how insecure voting machines are: http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm

"Myth Breakers: Facts About Electronic Elections" (2nd edition): www.votersunite.org

Ohio vote suppression: www.bpac.info/Votefraud/keyfacts.html

Documentation of widespread machine fraud and dirty tricks in over 20 states: http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

Greg Palast, "Kerry Won": http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

In progress compilations of various articles and materials on 2004 Election Fraud:

http://tinyurl.com/5tcyk

http://tinyurl.com/5rhsm

-------

Note: The credentials of the Ph.D.'s who have studied this matter and have spoken out publicly is extraordinarily impressive. All of the Dr.'s mentioned above are tops in their field, at leading universities. In addition, here is the list of Ph.D.'s who did the USCountvotes report:

Josh Mitteldorf, Ph.D. - Temple University Statistics Department
Steven F. Freeman, PhD - Center for Organizational Dynamics, University of Pennsylvania
Brian Joiner, PhD - Prof. of Statistics and Director of Statistical Consulting (ret), University of Wisconsin
Frank Stenger, PhD in mathematics - School of Computing, University of Utah
Richard G. Sheehan, PhD - Department of Finance, University of Notre Dame
Elizabeth Liddle, MA - (UK) PhD candidate at the University of Nottingham
Paul F. Velleman, Ph.D. - Department of Statistical Sciences, Cornell University
Victoria Lovegren, Ph.D. - Department of Mathematics, Case Western Reserve University
Campbell B. Read, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus, Department of Statistical Science, Southern Methodist University
Kathy Dopp, MS in mathematics - USCountVotes, President
Also Peer Reviewed by USCountVotes' core group of statisticians and independent reviewers.

------

One last bit of info. Jonathan Simon, one of the leading analysts of the exit polls will be speaking at the Oakland, CA, ELECTION RIGGING TEACH-IN, Sat. Feb. 26. Here's the url for that event:

http://tinyurl.com/6b6vd
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Thank you thank you
Thank ALL of you for this! I just sent it off to Mimi Kennedy and asked her to get it out to Hollywood. :)
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
49. A single URL for this whole page is at following link:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. SHE RESPONDED!!!!
Clarity - I totally understand your writing me. I look forward to reading the material. I've been aware of this all along, following the exit poll/fina results discrepancy discussion among mathematicians via internet blogs.
But your stuff looks nicely distilled and footnoted!
As you know, Progressive Democrats of America helped Conyers put his hearings together on the Ohio fraud - one small piece of the puzzle. But it was a legsilative piece we controlled, and we did it an culminated in Barbara Boxer's joining the Ohio Reps for the challenge inf ront of Cheney, and the resultant debate - not covered by the press.
We're in a fix in this country. But thank you. We all need to gather and understand the evidence for a popular groundswell when some piece of all this lying hits the fan and smells so bad even the media can't cover it up.
Thanks - I'l l respond when I read, later.Mimi
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. /Wonderful! Good work, guys! I would add Chuck Herrin, in particular
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. Chuck Herrin's on my list, above...
Edited on Mon Feb-21-05 05:38 PM by Peace Patriot
...under the Johns Hopkins report...

Easy demo of the how insecure voting machines are:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm

I didn't include Curtis or Wayne Madsen mostly because of sheer weight of the list already (and it's for first-timers), and I just haven't kept up with the latest on credibility. Not saying anything, one way or the other. Just don't know. Add anything you think should be included. (But do remember, first-timers need a coherent narrative, and not too much stuff laid on them.)

-----

Just noticed the typo (extra word, "the") in my Chuck Herrin site.

CORRECTED:

Easy demo of how insecure voting machines are:
http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Oops! Didn't notice the reference to Herrin.
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. Nice work! How about Clint Curtis?
Edited on Mon Feb-21-05 04:17 PM by tommcintyre
EDIT:Full video of Curtis testimony

Even though this happened before the 2004 election, I have found it to be very compelling when explaining why electronic voting is so unsafe. In fact, when explaining the situation one-on-one, or to small groups, invariably this elicits the most response of all the information I give. I think this is because it demonstrates: intent and capability. And it has the credibility of being sworn testimony before the US House of Representatives.

I say something like: "A current member of the US House of representatives (Tom Feeney of Florida) hired a computer expert (Clinton Curtis) to write a program that would flip the vote to 51% to 49% guaranteeing that his party would win. And it was required that the program would leave no trace in the computer code. This information was given as testimony before the US House Judiciary Committee in December 2004."

Here are some links:
Computer expert testifies before the US House Judiciary Committee that he was hired to write a program to flip the votes electronically:
- Article: http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/2005-02-10/news/news....
- Video: Clinton Curtis testifies before House Judiciary
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001063.htm
- Transcript of video: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2004/12/13/18416/541/7...

------------------------------------------------------------------

Another thing that is important is to create a sense of urgency. I do this by explaining how the producer of "Invisible Ballots" (a documentary on the dangers of electronic voting) said in an interview: If we have all electronic voting, without paper (hard copies) to verify the vote, "no reform candidate will ever be able to win in order to change that situation."

links:
http://www.independentmediasource.com/evotingfraud.htm#...
6-17-04 - Listen Online (52 minute interview) - INVISIBLE BALLOTS
Edward Griffin discusses electronic voting machines and how they will negatively affect our lives. (Source)
>G. Edward Griffin is the Executive Producer and host of the documentary, "Invisible Ballots". (watch preview online).>

At this point, I find the audience very receptive to the "9 PhDs, etc. information.

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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. Have you read what Chuck Herrin says about Clint Curtis? Here:
Basically, he says that whether it happened or not is not the important thing; the fact that it COULD have happened should be of major concern to all.


http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevoteFAQ.htm

Q: Chuck:
1. This affidavit is circulating on the web today. This guy claims he wrote the software that was used to hack (at least) the Florida vote. I'm enclosing the URL for his sworn affidavit for you to review. You would know if what he says he wrote is possible or if this guy is some kind of a nutcase.

2. Bev Harris (Black Box Voting) is dubious; is it ego talking? I don't believe Curtis said he put the code on/in the machines, only that he gave the code to Feeney. But I'll pass along her comments, some of which are logical questions to ask.

A: 1) What he's written sounds entirely plausible. Diebold is known for using hidden fields in their touch screens, and it is referenced in their field guides ( I remember a section about how to cancel a vote). It would be VERY simple to design a program just like what this guy is saying - that's the whole basis for my arguing against using computers in voting. Since the certification process is a joke and no real source code review is done, what he's saying sounds technically plausible to me.
Whether it's true or not, I don't know, but it's technically quite possible.

(By the way - he never said he wrote software that was used to Hack the Florida vote - he said he wrote a prototype. Read it closely....)

2) Hi - Please don't get me wrong: I'm dubious, too. Please don't interpret my saying that it was plausible to mean that I think he's the "smoking gun" - I mean that it is entirely plausible for a developer to write backdoor software to be placed inside voting systems. Just like you said, I don't remember him saying he had ever actually installed the software or even mentioning vendors, just that he had written something designed to switch votes.

In answer to your original question - "You would know if what he says he wrote is possible or if this guy is some kind of a nutcase" - like I said, it's technically possible, but I don't know if it's true.

It's probably not the way I would have done it, but like I say on my site, if I were an attacker I don't think that I would target the touchscreens at all since that's where I know people are going to look. That doesn't mean it wasn't done.

Many of Bev's points below are valid. But, like you said, I don't recall him saying that he placed the software in the machines, only that he wrote a VB program to flip votes. That part is entirely possible, but may be one of the "grains of truth" Bev mentions below.

I'll be (and I'm sure you will be) very interested to see how this plays out. I don't think it's Bev's ego talking - I think it's a healthy skepticism. Especially about the Qui Tam information - she would know more about that than I would.

There's a lot of disinformation being generated out there about this issue, a lot of sketchy posts on blogs, etc that look like they're designed to throw people off and keep them chasing their tails. Anything that does eventually "blow the lid off" is going to be examined and re-examined, and millions will be spent trying to discredit it, so it really needs to be bulletproof before any MSM reporters will stake their reputations on it.

Good answers to Bev's questions would be a great start, and I'm curious to see what happens.

(One last note - Just because "I wouldn't do it that way" doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't have. If I were Nixon, I wouldn't have kept the tapes. If I were an Enron exec, I would have done a Helluva lot of things differently. If I were Mondale, I wouldn't have made campaign promises to raise taxes. If I were Diebold, I wouldn't have written such sloppy software and left an FTP server open to the world. If I were an Elections Official in Volusia County, I wouldn't have left tapes in the trash on the porch. If I were Mr. Feeney, I wouldn't be a paid lobbyist while in office. If I were the Ohio Secretary of State, I wouldn't Co-Chair the Bush-Cheney campaign. The list goes on.... Just because something's a dumb-ass idea doesn't mean someone who should've known better wouldn't do it. The questions are all worth asking - don't just believe it on blind faith - but don't give people too much credit, either. In hacking investigations and in audit work, I've found that mysteries can often be solved when Human Stupidity is given its proper consideration. Very often, the answer to "He wouldn't be that stupid, would he?" winds up being "Oh, yeah. I guess he was."
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Yes, "capability" is the key
" What he's written sounds entirely plausible. Diebold is known for using hidden fields in their touch screens, and it is referenced in their field guides ( I remember a section about how to cancel a vote). It would be VERY simple to design a program just like what this guy is saying..."

This is enough to answer the question every open-minded person we are trying to educate/motivate is asking themselves: Is it possible?
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. 1 note to add plz.. ES&S CEO and Diebold CEO are BRTOTHERS!
I think this is a critical point in getting pepole to see the scope of the fraud!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. More great dirt on Diebold from Chuck Herrin:

Why do I call Diebold partisan and unethical, you ask? How's this:

"I am committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president." - Walden O'Dell, Diebold's CEO in a fundraising letter to Republicans, Fall 2003. O'Dell and other Diebold Senior Executives are Republican "Pioneers", which is the designation you get when you raise over $100,000. Brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich co-founded ES&S, another voting machine company, before Bob became President of Diebold Election Systems. His brother Todd is a Vice President of ES&S, the #2 vote machine maker, and is also a "Pioneer". According to campaign finance records at OpenSecrets.org, of the over $240,000 given by Diebolds directors and chief officers to political campaigns since 1998, all has gone to Republican candidates or party funds. Is that partisan enough for you? Well, what about calling them unethical?

Check this out - No less than 5 people (Cooper, Lee, Graye, Elder, and Dean - http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf ) involved with the management and development of Diebold's systems are convicted felons, including Senior Vice President Jeff Dean, and topping the list are his twenty-three counts of felony Theft in the First Degree. According to the findings of fact in case no. 89-1-04034-1 (Washington State, King County District Court):

Defendants thefts occurred over a 2 1/2 year period of time, there were multiple incidents, more than the standard range can account for, the actual monetary loss was substantially greater than typical for the offense, the crimes and their cover-up involved a high degree of sophistication and planning in the use and alteration of records in the computerized accounting system that defendant maintained for the victim, and the defendant used his position of trust and fiduciary responsibility as a computer systems and accounting consultant for the victim to facilitate the commission of the offenses."

To sum up, he was convicted of 23 felony counts of theft from by - get this - planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection. The reason for the embezzlement? He needed the money because "he was embezzling in order to pay blackmail over a fight he was involved in, in which a person died." A little more:

BlackBoxVoting.org's associate director Andy Stephenson obtained the court records of Jeffrey Dean which noted that the King County, Washington prosecutor was after him for over $500,000 in restitution.

"So now we have someone who's admitted that he's been blackmailed over killing someone, who pleaded guilty to 23 counts of embezzlement, who is given the position of senior programmer of the (Diebold) GEMS central tabulator system that counts approximately 50 percent of the votes in the (Bush-Kerry) election, in 30 states, both paper ballot and touch screen," said Stephenson.

In addition, Dean told prosecutors (whose offices were on the ninth floor of the King County courthouse) that he was unemployed, when in fact he was working for Diebold who afforded him with 24-hour access to Diebold's King County, Washington GEMS central tabulator, according to Stephenson. (Dean worked on the GEMS tabulator on the fifth floor of the same King County courthouse!) http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml

Do you trust computer systems designed by this man? Is trust important in electronic voting systems?

So here we are - Means, Motive, Opportunity - the whole package. And since the systems are so poorly designed, no audit trail to show any wrongdoing. Add some cries of "conspiracy theories" and "sore losers", and you've got yourself a mandate. Four more years, indeed. Surprise, surprise.

http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevoteFAQ.htm
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. Yup, that's a good point, Griffy--also the Chuck Hagel connection.
Edited on Mon Feb-21-05 06:15 PM by Peace Patriot
I wanted to try to make this as brief as possible, and try not to miss anything big, so I just gave enough for reader to understand how untrustworty and inherently fraudulent these private companies are that control all voting counting. Hard to know what to put in, leave out. I'm sure there are big holes. Plug in whatever you think best--for particular readers.

This one was designed for Hollywood and the entertainment industry--so I thought narrative was the important thing. What the hell actually happened?* And also CREDENTIALS. People who may not have a lot of time to read details, but if 9 Ph.D.'s say so, then they can trust the information--or at least that they have strong backup if they go public and get attacked.

*I was thinking "1/2 page film treatment"... BUT I LEFT OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT EMOTIONAL DETAIL: That the TV networks CHANGED the exit poll numbers on everybody's TV screens on election night--to fit the "official results."

Damn.

Helderheid, you still listening?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I am now!
Not to worry - I sent her that info. :) Now that we have a dialog, I will make it very clear that WE have to be the media. The media has failed to investigate many a major thing that has left me aghast - I would call the media scandal Investi-Gate (har har). Anyway, hopefully we'll get this info flowing in the direction of those who's voices carry further than ours. THANK YOU ALL
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. The alteration of the Exit Polls prevented Americans from knowing...
...that there was major evidence of fraud. Exit polls are used worldwide to verify elections and check for fraud. The numbers are kept separate--specifically for COMPARISON purposes. Not here. They CHANGED them--to fit the "officials results" (coming from Wally O'Dell's and H.F. Ahmanson's secret source code)--and presented the ILLUSION that Bush won with no question. I consider it a high crime and misdemeanor of the media--really, maybe their worst journalistic crime ever That's what prevented an uprising. Nobody knew!

Then, when word leaked out that Kerry won the Exit Polls, the "spin" began, and Mitofksy (the pollster) put out this absurd story that the Republicans were shy of the pollsters--thus skewing the exit polls to Kerry. That's mainly what the USCountvotes (9 Ph.D.'s) report is about--because what they found in the actual exit poll data was just the opposite--a skew toward Bush (meaning, Kerry's margin was even larger than the Exit Poll 3%).

Upshot: The MAJORITY VOTERS--Kerry voters--were left devastated, depressed, disempowered and disenfranchised, thinking the country had gone "red." The brand new, fabulous democracy movement that had formed to oust the Bush Cartel got the stuffing kicked out of it. And here we are--trying to recover.

We WILL recover. We are the majority--who favor fairness and justice, war as a last resort, the rule of law, and a compassionate, decent America.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. YES
:toast:
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. Mitofsky has been involved in election fraud for years, though. Peace
Patriot, you listened to the Victoria Colllier interview about that here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss//duboard.p...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #56
61. Yeah, Amaryllis, I listened to the whole interview of Victoria Collier.
She is amazing. I think she has a very, very clear-eyed understanding of the whole situation the country is in--and it's based on vast, detailed knowledge of our elections. It's a wonderful interview. Very enlightening!

She DID say that she thought the Exit Polls this time were more reliable than the official results. I believe that the reason they did a more accurate exit poll this time was the trouble they had in 2000 and 2002 (two other stolen elections), so they improved all exit poll procedures and did a really big sample (with a very low Margin of Error)--as all these many experts attest.

I've no doubt Mitofsky is in collusion with the War Party--but he also has a business to run and a reputation to protect.

Where he really failed the public was in, 1) permitting the TV networks to pollute his exit poll data with the "official tally"--a crime against the public, in my opinion; and 2) in not doing a poll specifically designed to verify the election, but rather a demographic poll. whose results CAN be used to verify the election (Mitofsky himself has said so), but that gave the BushCons a "talking point" load of horse manure about the demographic info somehow being wrong to throw in the eyes of the public when it became known that Kerry had won the exit polls.

And that they did--load of crap "talking points" came down (straight from Karl Rove's desk into the mouths of their whore puppets on TV). THEN, when that B.S. didn't hold up, Mitofsky himself TOLD A BIG FAT LIE--that Republicans wouldn't tell pollsters who they voted for. His own data flatly contradicts that assertion--as the 9 Ph.D.s discovered and wrote in their report.

And of course THAT CRAP was also thrown around to confuse everybody.

No excuses for Mitofsky--but I certainly don't envy him being caught between the BushCons and the Truth. Bad place to be.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Didn't Zogby also do exit polls this time?
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Zogby's original prediction
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. Helderheid, THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! for the Zogby...
...web site (www.exitpollz.org )! I hadn't seen this! It's fabulous! It lays it all out plainly for anyone to see! I'm adding it to the documents list.

See the (approx.) third comment at the top of this discussion. (They've numbered it #66) (NOTE TO ALL VISITORS TO THIS DISCUSSION, from me.)

This NOTE explains about the urls and sends them right to Post #15 for help.

It also includes some good amendments (I think) to the documents list. Helpful titles, a few additions.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
54. LOL.. media scandal as "InvestiGATE" very funny to me!..
Watergate, rathergate, gannongate and now we got Investigate!

Inverstigate propagannon!
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
37. 20 Amazing Fact About Election Fraud
Simple, easy to understand, and shocking!

http://www.redhandsmovement.com/docs/20_facts.pdf

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/voti...

I prefer the html version with links for each point, if anyone has it on hand.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. Think this is what you mean; html version with links:
http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html

Did you know....
1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold


2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280...


3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/private_company.h...

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280...


4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main63...

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886


5. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/0...

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031...


6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News&fil...

http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx

http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php


7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm

http://theindependent.com/stories/052700/new_hagel27.ht...


8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.

http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html

http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/04280...


9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041020evotestates/pfin...


10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm


11. Diebold is based in Ohio.

http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm


12. Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as consultants and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml


13. Jeff Dean was Senior Vice-President of General Election Systems when it was bought by Diebold. Even though he had been convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, Jeff Dean was retained as a consultant by Diebold and was largely responsible for programming the optical scanning software now used in most of the United States.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0312/S00191.htm
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf


14. Diebold consultant Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf


15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/26/loc_elexoh....


16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie here: http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov .)

http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190


17. 30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main63...


18. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeRe...

http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=N...

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm


19. The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/7...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10544-20...


20. Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeRe...

http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/governmen...

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/tens_of_thousands...

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html

http://uscountvotes.org /


NOTE: Please copy the above list and distribute freely!
LET THE FACTS BE KNOWN! Thank you!
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. Yes, that's it. Lots of good info here. Easy to understand
It circulated extensively via email in December.

It would make an excellent follow-up for someone that wants more info.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thank you. Bookmarked and Recommended. (nt)



BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
44. This URL doesn't work; know one that does??
Nine Ph.D's from leading universities call for investigation of 2004 Election:
http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/USCountVotes_Re_ ... Mitofsky-Edison.pdf
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. here ya go
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. My statistical study of vote patterns in Florida has similar conclusion to
Hout's study- very strange pattern in touchscreen counties not explainable by the other data and trends

http://www.flcv.com/fla04EAS.html
http://www.flcv.com/fla04EA.html data


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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
46. These links don't work either??
Part 1
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1316010

Part 2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... p?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1358806

Part 3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x197878

Democratic Underground (TruthIsAll): The Time Zone Discrepancy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph ... hp?az=view_all&address=203x318693

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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Look at response 15
15. Clickable and Copyable Version of Documentation
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. berniew1: be sure to remove the "..." and the spaces between the 1st and
Edited on Mon Feb-21-05 08:23 PM by Peace Patriot
2nd parts of the urls, and in the 4th one (Time Zone Discrepancy) remove the extra "h" from the ".ph ... hp?az" part. It should read ".php?az." Then it should work. Or just go to Response #15, as Helderheid suggests. Sorry about all the trouble with the urls.
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-21-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
55. VERY nice piece, Peace! n/t
Bookmarked!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
57. FYI
I'm now having an e-conversation with Mimi - I was so afraid of invading her privacy but it looks like we have our Hollywood Hero. :)
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
58. Peace, You are a Force!
I am so glad you are on "our" side.

:hi:
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. you said it
We are lucky we're ALL on our side. The TRUTH is on our side too.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 03:56 AM
Response to Original message
60. I am humbled. May the Force be with us all!
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt.... If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."

- Thomas Jefferson, 1798
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #60
70. And this:
When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall - think of it, ALWAYS. - Gandhi

And did Paul Revere really say anyone who isn't a conspiracy theorist these days isn't paying attention? Paul Revere of "The British are coming" ?
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NationalEnquirer Donating Member (571 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
62. This is THE definitive post on the matter! n/t
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
63. Helderheid, here's an easy summary of the UC Berkeley study that...
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 02:28 PM by Peace Patriot
...found 130,000 to 230,000 or more phantom votes for Bush in Florida's three main Democratic counties--Broward, Palm Beach and Miami-Dade--with electronic voting as the culprit. It's in the form of a press release which lays out the findings very clearly. (Dr. Haut calls for an investigation of the 2004 election--as have so many other top statisticians.)

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1118-14.htm

In my documentation list, above, I just listed the study itself. But this press release is an easier way to present it.

The item could be re-documented this way:

Florida: 130,000 to 230,000 phantom votes for Bush--paper vs. electronic voting:
Dr. Michael Haut & UC Berkeley stats team: http://ucdata.berkeley.edu
Press release: http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1118-14.htm


--------

It's interesting to combine this press release with the Black Box voting report on the testing of (or rather, the farcical fake testing of) the central tabulators in Broward County, posted by Bailey77 at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

links to

http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/3506.html
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
68. Helderheid, take note! Posting here so you don't miss it...
I'm amending the list of documents just a bit. I posted this at the top (as well as a direction to visitors to Post #15 for good url list of documents) (Post #66, approx. third from the top). But, so you don't miss this--here are the amendments to the document list. I've added some titles, and a few items (helpful stuff), including the Zogby and other exit poll info. at exitpollz.org that you gave me. THANK AGAINS FOR THAT! I hadn't seen it! What a wonderful site!

AMENDMENTS TO THE DOCUMENT LIST

---

(--adding this item)

TV networks alteration of the Exit Polls to fit the "official tally" (and Zogby prediction of a Kerry win):
http://www.exitpollz.org /

---

(--adding their press release)

Florida: 130,000 to 230,000 phantom votes for Bush--paper vs. electronic voting:
Dr. Michael Haut & UC Berkeley statistics team: http://ucdata.berkeley.edu
Press release: http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/1118-14.htm

---

(--giving complete title of the article)

Greg Palast, "Kerry Won-just count the votes at the back of the bus":
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

---

(--adding this item)

57,000 machine malfunction/vote suppression complaints to Congress:
http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=3961

---

(--for Dr. Freeman, adding the titles of his reports, and an article url)

Dr. Steven Freeman: http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/epdiscrep.htm
"The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy"
"Hypotheses for Explaining the Exit Poll-Official Count Discrepancy in the 2004 US Presidential Election"
Article http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/1970
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
69. Helderheid, have you seen this? This is crucial info:

http://www.votescam.com/home1.php

There is a book and a video.

Book is online here:
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

I am going to keep pushing the Votescam info all over DU because it is such crucial info that isn't being talked about anywhere else. It goes into all the stuff about e-voting, but it documents the role of the Election News Service, whose role is virtually unknown in election fraud, and of Mitofsky's role in fraud. Dealing with the Election News Service issue is just as important as dealing with e-voting if we are to have honest elections ever again. I started a thread on it here with more info:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

E-voting fraud goes back much further than any of us knew. George the First was elected through e-voting fraud! See above link for more.

VOTESCAM: THE STEALING OF AMERICA

Votescam is the culmination of a groundbreaking 25 year investigation into computerized vote fraud. A must read for anyone seeking to answer the question:
Why can't we vote the bastards out?

The answer is:
Because we didn't even vote the bastards in!

"One of the most mysterious, low-profile, covert, shadowy, questionable mechanisms of American democracy is the American vote count." -- Votescam

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