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D U 'explains how' the votes were stolen.

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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 10:56 PM
Original message
D U 'explains how' the votes were stolen.
Edited on Sun Feb-13-05 11:01 PM by Melissa G
Hi All,
I have a research request for DUers who can 'explain how' the votes were stolen. As we know this happened lots of ways in many different places. It would be nice to list the way with the place. Do we already have a thread like this? If not, can we keep this info in a ready place for folks to access it?
Thanks,
Melissa :kick:
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. That would be a pretty damn long list.

Some people have scrapped together state-by-state lists. Most of them don't filter out corrected irregularities (it amazes me how the Geauga irregularity, one of the ones that got caught and fixed, gets so much press, when the unresolved don't.)

One person could do a whole lot of good if they had a solid 2 days to go raid everyone else's state-by-state list and compile a master list.

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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2.  I know its a lot of info, but I have a serious researcher interested
and we could do a lot of good with this list! Favorite D U threads are most welcome. The letter out to Shelley from Peace Patriot has some good stuff! Thanks for your help and research skids!
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. I warren county Oh
precinct 4...I found 18 names in the poll book that were not on the roster. No telling how those people voted. But I bet it wasn't for Kerry.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Thanks Andy! Love,peace and sweet dreams to you tonight.
My prayers are with you.
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
18. Where is this documented?? Is it in Greens reports?? Other precincts??
Is there a systematic effort to look at the voter logs in Ohio and compare them to the official vote records. Its clear there was a huge amount of fraud by looking at the statistical data and exit poll data, but a lot of the fraud has to be documented by looking at the voter logs. Was this part of a systematic effort in that regard, and is there more into??
How is it documented??

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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Bernview1 suggest you pm Andy directly since he is recuperating
from surgery and may not see this in his hazy condition. It is an important question.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's everything we've got...
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks E C! 'You tha Woman!' n/t
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
7. Just found this amazing fraud site I've never seen before:
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. wow.. great site... might get book! nt
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Just started a thread on it. Deserves its own:
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NationalEnquirer Donating Member (571 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. Here is the depraved GENIUS of Rove..
They didn't do it the same everywhere.
They didn't even do it much AT ALL.
They only did it JUST ENOUGH.
Different methods, all over the place.
Enough to swing key states.
Man, I get sick thinking about it.
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-05 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think there were several fraud plans, one plan backing up another;
that the Kerry win was looking so big, a real burndown of the Bush Cartel (Dem blowout in new voter registration in 2004--Dem 57%, Rep 41%) and Bush approval ratings so low, 50% and dipping below around election time (and doing the same now, by the way--3 months after being "elected"), that they implemented every plan they had set up, save one--the terrorist alert plan (all set up before the election, with all kinds of planted news stories, but not utilized, possibly foiled by insiders).

The main plan was electronic fraud (direct manipulation of the secret, proprietary source code in the electronic tabulators) starting on the east coast to secure the popular vote early one (TruthIsAll's discovery), with backup plans for electronic fraud all across the nation, as necessary. The exit polls firmly establish this. The odds are 1 in 10 million that the exit polls were wrong in the way that they were wrong (no bias in the exit polls can account for it). And that's what the exit polls show--a skew to Bush east to west, and between the 12 to 20 battleground states vs. other states. And election anomalies indicate that they may have padded his popular vote by taking %'s here and there, all over the country.

This plan was set up very deliberately and methodically, via HAVA. Tom Delay stopping a paper trail requirement from ever getting out of committee--backed by the electronic voting machine companies (Bush donors and big supporters all) who insisted that no paper trail was necessary, and further demanded that their programming code remain secret. Democrats either ignorantly or corruptly failing to object. A setup for fraud. Windows OS--an open bank vault (to those who had the combination).

They also set up all kinds of potentially usable operators and operations in Ohio and Florida, to secure 2 of the 3 biggest battleground states, with subsidiary plans in other states (New Mexico, for instance), in addition to suppression of Democratic voter registration prior to the election (mostly of minorities--the purge lists and so on). (The Dem blowout in new voter registration is all the more remarkable, given this suppression--fabulous grass roots effort!)

I've wondered why they would do the blatant things they did in Ohio, for instance--red flag stuff, bound to infuriate minority leaders and civil rights groups. At first, I thought it was literally that--a red flag--a distraction. But now, having reviewed all the election studies, I think that, 1) the old pols were not feeling real secure about the promises made by the young bucks into tech fraud (it was an untested system, nationwide), thus we had a lot of old pol Republican dirty tricks (typical racist stuff like thugs calling former black felons and threatening them with more jail time if they showed up to vote); and 2) Bush was in such trouble, they simply had to go all out.

If you'll recall, Dick Cheney made a really odd trip to Hawaii two days before the election. Hawaii is a big Dem state. What was he doing there? (Remember, there was some kind of statement from Cheney or someone, that Hawaii was in doubt--totally ridiculous.) I continue to think that this had some relationship to the terrorist alert plan, which Wayne Madsen said was likely to be used in California. V-P's plane in trouble out over the Pacific? --something like that. Tie up the LA freeways, put police all over the place, scaring minority voters. Make poor workers choose between picking kids up at school in big scary terror alert, or voting. With many Kerry voters out of the picture, Schwarz would dictate that a partial vote favoring Bush was okay. (Hey, maybe THAT'S why they got rid of Shelley--did he stumble over this backup plan?)

Remember all those phony terrorist alerts prior to the election (with one even involving a school)? (...and none since then...ahem...odd, isn't?). Maybe just trying to put fear in voters' hearts. Maybe not. Maybe they were a dry run--or psyops prep for election day. I sure noticed all this, and wondered. (And this may also be what Madsen stumbled upon, with his check thing, and the CIA/FBI agents paid off to do something--the desperation, if-nothing-else-worked plan.)

Anyway, a list of the ways that they stole this election needs to have a good working hypothesis accompanying it. And I think this is a pretty good one.

Basic facts: Gore 2000 repeat voters + huge new Democratic voter registration + big jump of Nader voters to Kerry = 4 million to 8 million vote Kerry margin (confirmed by both the national and state exit polls; by the pre-election polls showing very poor Bush approval ratings, and Zogby prediction of a Kerry win; and by many other indicators, such as big, spontaneous, enthusiastic Kerry campaign crowds). How to wipe out that margin? How to wipe those smiles off peoples' faces on election day? How to kill that grass roots movement that was electing a president who would be beholden to the majority?

That was their problem.

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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-05 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks Peace Patriot! A good analysis.
This stuff is wonderful for the original purpose of the thread and I'm sure useful to my researcher friend who I sent it to.
There are other folks who think all statistics are suspect. Something along the lines of 'liars, damn liars and statisticians'. I have another friend who doubts statistics who is a hard core dem and does not believe there was widespread fraud. I would love to send him something to help open his eyes to widespread fraud that does not rely so heavily on statistics which seem to leave him so unmoved. An excerpt from his email to me below...
"In a NY Times Magazine article, Matt Bai, who spent election day with the leadership of ACT in Ohio, reported that while the early exit polls there were favorable to Kerry, as the day went on the exit polls got worse and worse to the point that the ACT people were struggling to figure out a scenario under which Kerry could win the state. Exit polls are a statistical method; as such they are subject to uncertainty, bias, error and the accuracy of underlying assumptions.

While I think the lack of enough voting equipment in urban areas was a problem, I don't believe that the actual ballots cast were manipulated. I have seen no credible evidence of large-scale fraud--only speculation."
Any good concise responses come to mind?
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I am, of course, sending E C's link.n/t
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. I think this highlights one matter of semantics.

"Fraud" is not an objective. It's not a plan, it's not a strategy.

Fraud is something that happens when someone tries to win at "any cost", and it happens when they step over the line of what is acceptable. It is a byproduct of the bad character and bad morals of those who committed it.

There wasn't a "vast conspiracy" across the country to defraud the election, involving "the coordination of thousands of officials." What there was was a massive action by people who did not have the scruples to work even within the boundaries of the system that protects our democratic rights, forget common decency and civility.

Fraud happened in pockets, some with small effects, some with large effects. Conspiracies to commit fraud, where they did happen, involved only a small group of people -- some very good at it, some hacks.

Fraud happened. And it wasn't the only things that happened. They also abused power, intimidated individuals, and lied to the people.

The election of 2004 was not "A Fraud". It was a lot of fraud. And a lot of suppression/electioneering. And a lot of lies. And probably a fair amount of blackmail which we will never know about.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-05 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
15. Here's a good one-- no link
The diebold manual stated that votes cast at the top of the ballot would be negated if, later on down ballot, the voter selected a straight party ticket. The manual was posted on the scoop website.

Given that fact, one could assume that every DRE was likewise programmed and millions of straight party voters lost their presidential choice.

And given that, consider that the posts about the default votes going to the top candidate listed- b*** by virtue of the b, was always on top of Kerry. IIRC, the diebold manual states that the negated - top of ballot votes - would revert to the default.

The election was stolen a few votes here, a few votes there, by the secret programming running the counters whether DRE or OpScan, and once we get a look see at those programs we will find the truth.

They stole the election 2000 everyone with any sense knows, and have you ever heard as much as a simple apology? NO. Therefore they were emboldened by that escapade, emboldened enough to steal the 2004 election while all the scared little dems looked the other way. Shit!
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Many thousands did lose their Presidential vote & Kerry the election
through programming fraud and "glitches" that have been documented to have cost Kerry many hundreds of thousands of votes. Since virtually all votes are compiled by computers these days, this compilation determines the victor- not how people vote- so you have to know how the compilers are compiling when you vote and insure that
the compilers compile votes the way intended. The Dems don't understand this and never had a chance in this election since the compilers weren't programmed to compile votes as intended. This has been documented in over 20 states, including many states that didn't compile straight Dem ticket voting properly:
Texas, Indiana, North Carolina, Missouri, South Carolina, Nevada, Wisconin, Florida, etc.

http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html
http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
http://www.votersunite.org

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Never stood a chance
I've even talked to few good dems who are completely unaware. Unbelievable.

They'd rather believe that their fellow citizens, by and large, voted to keep b*** in office, that the voting was on the up and up, that no more than usual votes were stolen.

"No more than usual".

We've a long way to go educating these folks, and while we here are pretty well educated, there are many on DU who remain ignorant.

I've often thought we need to begin a campaign over on GD to keep this issue on the front page day after day. If we can convince our own DU folks, that would be a start, eh?
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
16. I have a list. Its the thousands of EIRS hotline reports summarized:
Documentation for over 20 states of widespread Vote machine fraud, systematic dirty tricks, malfeasance by officials and manipulation of registrations, absentees, and provisional ballots- especially to suppress minority vote.

http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html

Also
http://votersunite.org messups irregularities by state
http://www.flcv.com/greenrc.html
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Thank you Bernview1 ! this is the perfect thing to email my friend
who does not like statistics...
mg
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. Sure, it's a long list, but I'm on board
This is something that we need to pursue, to the bitter end, if we have to, since it has happened two too many times. :-(
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tinanator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. the easiest best way of all
by not counting and by preventing votes for the opposition.
the evidence for prevention was broadcast all day long from Ohio.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-18-05 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. Some people tweaked the vote using back doors to the tabulators.
That's the best guess I think for what happened around the country, as another poster recently said on another thread. Bev Harris showed how the tabulators have these back doors built in and how they have been refined over the years. I think the back door she used in her demonstrations had undergone about 12 different modifications and improvements. So it was obviously there on purpose. It would have taken about 15 secs to achieve the results, it would have left no trace, there would have been no way anybody could have even investigated it, let along found anything. The courts protect the source code from investigation since that's "proprietary" material, trade secrets. Elections officers rely on the technicians from the various companies to keep the machines working properly, i.e., doing what they're designed to do: rig elections.
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Do we have evidence of those 12 different modifications and improvements?
I agree with others that where ever we have actionable suits we need to be filing them to take back our democracy.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
28. kick n/t
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grapette Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. kick
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