what is with a few of you people? To hear you whine you would think there was no where else to post. The 2004 election is now in the past but the issues that surround it are important points that have to be worked on.
Right now we have threads on nitwit subjects like "Olberman polls" getting much more feedback than threads on contacting Sensenbrenner the man who is responsible for allowing election irregularity hearings to begin. Do you not see a problem in this? Are you not aware of the many many other forums here at DU?
I sympathize with you one gazillion percent. (Which is a lot and may even be more than you realize.)
However, I've been beaten over the head for three months now about how statistical evidence of fraud may be enough for me (an engineer) but, it isn't enough for a court proceeding (judges and lawyers).
(Why it isn't, is an argument for another day.)
Our task now... or so it seems. Is to derive a legally acceptable and provable means of detecting or preventing fraud and protecting the votes of American citizens.
2004 provided lessons... Which we need to study and learn from.
However, I don't think there is much of a chance of them making a near term difference in the results of the 2004 election.
That said... If you have concrete evidence acceptable in a court of law. I will personally carry you and it all the way to D.C.
The fraud part is implied in reform anyways. I mean, why else reform the system? How else to get "the other folks" on our side? Fraud scares everybody, we use that to push for reform, we just dont need to bash people over the head with it. I mean, we dont need to get hung up over PROVING it to most people, lets just show how its possible, they will jump on board the Reform thing.
I was actually feeling a little whiney and can totally relate to everyone's angst over the name change because I came here right after 11/2/04, actually at the sugestion of Shiela Samples who wrote such a great piece she led me away from the hypnosis of corporate Media. But I have recently mentioned to another poster who sugested that I post something as a new thread, that my posts sink like a stone. I had posted a plea for people to email Conyers about the fact that he did not offer as an option on his survey: paper ballots hand counted. I felt it should AT LEASY be an option. I got 3 replies, but a post about voting for Kerry's picture on Yahoo stayed on the front page for way longer. SO... much as I have certainly partaken in that same vote, and had fun, we HAVE to FOCUS to beat this fascist regime before they come and get us...
Gosh, thanks I've been looking for an excuse to use this adorable emoticon and just haven't been able to find one. I guess the name means "no pity" as in "somebody call the whambulance" but I read it like nope-ity, as in "you just got it all wrong buddy." Anyway, here is a whole orchestra of the little guys just to get it out of my system.
PS. I also feel a bit disoriented with the name change since it was a place for me to go to deal with some very strong feelings about The * Theft of the Presidency Part Two.
I also felt that it unintentionally resonated with taunts that we should "get over it" and "put election fraud behind us" and "move on" when HEY we're just not ready and may never be.
My poll on whether we should put election fraud behind us found 80% of responders thought putting election fraud behind us was a really bad idea. However, the future is ahead and the past is behind us, no matter whether we continue to fight against what happened on 11/2/04 or not. So maybe in the end the name change makes sense after all.
Justice: There is still the issue of 2004 'irregularities',fraud, disenfranchisement to discuss. Support for Conyers and others investigating these issues. Lawsuits to follow. GAO and FBI investigations.
Reform: Self-explanitory. Voter Veritfied Paper Ballots.
This is good and avoids using the fraud word which turns so many people off (nobody wants to admit how much fraud there is in this society in general--it's huge). But still gets across the message that there have been grave--egregious--assaults on the foundation of democracy, the electoral process.
"Reform" does sound too lite (although of course it can contain the charges of fraud) standing alone, but good with Justice.
It's too polite, and let's all have 'tea and crumpets' with the fascist neo-cons. I wonder if DU is trying to not offend anyone new to the message boards with the word "Fraud". I miss the old place too.
BigBearJohn for helping to put things into perspective. I am also saddened by the change... I haven't been here as long as some, but it had become a comfortable best friend. We have sooooo much to do, though that we can't lose sight of the prize. Write a letter to Boxer, write a letter to Conyers, if that doesn't make you feel better, rant to corporate media!:evilgrin:
just the two things we need after everything we have been through since the november election.
no but seriously ,I feel a little weird about it but change is good sometimes. In this case, the mods were not going to let us continue on with that forum anyway so it is good that we took it apon ourselves to fix the impending problem.
47. Name had to change.. The new name is probably just fine.
Most importantly, is what we DO in here.
Anyway, the intent is understandable/clear. ELECTION, REFORM, and hopefully more people here will get the idea that this forum is about ACTION (not just writing IMOs). I'm just glad we didn't wind up splitting this forum, like some were pushing for (would've resulted in diminishing/dissipating our effectiveness).
Also, can you imagine if this DID come to a vote here? I wonder how many freep-types are registered here and would become "alerted" to come vote here? We might have had a very interesting "write in" candidate. ;)
48. Old name, old name, old name, old name, old name .......
Why did we have to bother with a name change? We are still talking about a stolen election (2004) and the need for election reform to keep it from happening again. I agree that we've toned down the name when -- if anything -- we need to ratchet it up.
How about "Wanted Dead or Alive: The 2004 Election Thieves Posse"?
I think that the 2004 election was the last straw and political time should stop with it.
It does feel too much like moving on. I am on a break though and spend just a few minutes here a day instead of hours and hours.
The idea that the people who have stolen the last few elections and untold congressional seats will allow any progress in reform is kind of ridiculous. There will be no bills brought to the floor, no debates, no press. We will only hear of more money granted by the usurper to allow more machines to be bought until they are everywhere.
Maybe if the court cases get going we will all feel revived. I am tired.
i love the people in this forum and i really am not looking forward to going into GD just to see a long list of replies that say 'Ignored'. the shit i see about Kerry in there makes me want jump the hell out my window after breaking it. :cry:
just seems with the old name we got away with a lot more O/T threads.
and as bad as we feel, it can't even compare with what Kerry must be feeling right now...another $80 BILLION for War, and helpless to do anything for the American citizens he was fighting for as the War Machine marches on...
And so, I guess the final lesson is EVIL IS POWERFUL.
Time To Cocoon for the Winter. I'm picking a pink one.
72. Me three. How 'bout: Election Fraud: Research & Activism Forum???
I also second the motion that I'm getting pretty fed up with all the conservatives hacking the DU activism!! Every time TruthIsAll gets going, the same wingnuts come along to sing in chorus that Kerry LOST, or he's a "loser", or "get over it, they won fair & square".
79. I didn't think it mattered much until today, when moderators...
...transferred our live reports on the Condi Rice nomination--the culmination of weeks of effort here at the Election Forum--to the Political Forum, right in the middle of our reports and discussion. We lost participants. We lost reports. It was very confusing, and very upsetting.
So, I think there is an agenda going on to sever Election Reform from its obvious consequences in the on-going world of BushCon policy.
What bothers me most is the arbitariness of this decision today, and its timing. And the lack of explanation, and the lack of moderator response when I complained--the lack of accountability. Who did this? Why?
I have never seen anything like that happen before at DU.
I don't think we are going to get anywhere as much important work done like before. This is so sad. DU is a fantastic vehicle for us to get the message out. I'm afraid we're going to become a much softer voice now.
Before this forum felt like a wonderful tangle of interconnected issues, some more directly related to election fraud and reform and some more tangential, but still related. It also had the feeling of a neighborhood within a city. Even though the city is home (DU), the neighborhood is where you go to hang out, reflect, argue, agree, draw energy and build community. This all seemed to stem from the renaming of the forum and the attempt to refocus more strongly on the central issues of fraud and reform, but it is starting to feel exclusionary where before it felt inclusive. I, too, miss the old forum and more open format.
AmerDem: <<<<<Right now we have threads on nitwit subjects like "Olberman polls" getting much more feedback than threads on contacting Sensenbrenner the man who is responsible for allowing election irregularity hearings to begin. Do you not see a problem in this? Are you not aware of the many many other forums here at DU?>>>>>>>
89. The trick now is to couch everything inside of the forums heading.
This is actually an opportunity to become that much more focused on a series of critical issues and move them forward at lightning speed.
Sure a lot of the community chatter is gone now. But that can still exist inside of this new arena.
Look to rebuild the "noise" with messages of analysis, plans, and action. As much as some my not like the change, this change can be transformed into something much more powerful than is immediately noticeable.
Don't let dust gather, keep forging ahead. What your after is nearly in hand.
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