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nmoliver Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 06:26 PM
Original message
* is officially, "legally", beyond the law
http://www.atsnn.com/story/111717.html
....
The $7 billion federal class action lawsuit against top Bush Administration officials for, among other things, their roles in engineering and orchestrating the 911 attacks has been dismissed by Judge Illston. Attorney for the plaintiffs, Stanley Hilton is preparing an appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and hopes to reverse the judge's ruling.
....
Mr. Ashes spoke with Stanley Hilton earlier today and Mr. Hilton informed him that the judge's ruling was based on the "Doctrine of Sovereign Immunity". In other words, the suit was not dismissed because of lack of evidence, but rather because the judge reasoned that U.S. Citizens do not have the right to hold a sitting President accountable for anything, even if the charges include premeditated mass murder and premeditated acts of high treason. Mr. Hilton and his plaintiffs disagree and so are filing an appeal.
....
Wow. Just wow. Judge Illston dismissed the suit, not because of lack of evidence, but because of the "Doctrine of Sovereign Immunity." We as Citizens of the United States of America cannot hold a sitting President accountable, even if the charges include premeditated mass murder and premeditated acts of high treason. Remember, this lawyer Stanley Hilton claims to have hard evidence of a signed document issued by the Bush administration to go ahead with the 9/11 attacks, among much other evidence, which to this point Hilton has withheld.

Now what is curious is that the US Constitution provides that:

Article II. Section. 4.
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

So how is it possible, upon these incredible charges that the lawsuit brings, that the case be dismissed based on Sovereign Immunity? This is the biggest news recently for the whole 9-11 truth movement.

Related News Links:
www.serendipity.li
911review.org
www.rense.com
www.truthout.org

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
9/11 'Drills' Alex Jones explosive interview with Stanley Hilton


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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hmm...the ninth circuit court of appeals.
The ninth, the ninth...Something about that court I should know about, isn't there?
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signmike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Number Nine -- Number Nine -- Number Nine -- Number Nine --
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. It's the liberal court, isn't it? It's the one that the conservatives
love to describe as nutty. I hope they stick to their guns and not allow the criticism to distract them.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. One other question: Which court opined that Paula Jones could sue
a sitting judge?
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bemis12 Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. It was a civil suit
Edited on Sun Jan-16-05 06:56 PM by bemis12
and therefore properly dismissed. If someone thinks they have proof of criminal charges for the administration flying planes into buildings, they are free to bring them.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. k
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's possible because...
Simplisticly, the House is the Prosecutor, the Chief Justice is the Judge and the Senate is the Jury for impeachment.

-Hoot
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
7. But did it have a stipulation
covering BJ's? BTW where did they dredge that up? "Doctrine of Sovereign Immunity" And since when do we have a sovereign?
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signmike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. a Sovereign, Hah! I haven't even got
two Ducats to rub together...

:-(




Badaboom
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jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Groan!
Good one. :)
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qwghlmian Donating Member (768 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. The class action lawsuit was a civil suit, thus
claiming that, as you wrote above, "the charges include premeditated mass murder and premeditated acts of high treason" is incorrect. If such charges were filed, it would have to be in a criminal suit.

See http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/usdc/bnkrptcy/briefs/bn... for explanation and discussion of the "sovereign immunity" doctrine. This is not something the judge just made up on the spot.

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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thank you for the link, but...wow
:puke:

So, in appeal, they are going to argue whether * can even be sued, before any of the complaints are going to be heard?
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qwghlmian Donating Member (768 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. He cannot be sued in a civil suit, no. n/t
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Q. The suit appears to be against Bush et al
we are suing Bush, Condoleeza Rice, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Mueller, etc. for complicity in personally not only allowing 9/11 to happen but in ordering it.

snip

"We are suing them under the Constitution for violating American?s rights, as well as under the federal Fraudulent Claims Act, for presenting a fraudulent claim to Congress to justify the bogus Iraq boondoggle war, for political gains. And also, under the RICO statute, under the Racketeering Corrupt Organization Act, for being a corrupt entity.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread80501/pg1

and the Sovereign immunity it says:

As noted above, it is well settled in the law that, absent "consent," the Federal government, its departments and agencies are immune from suit. Sovereign immunity extends to Indian nations , government officials acting in their official capacity and, to the extent that Congress has cloaked them with immunity, Federal corporations .

Since this suit does not appear to be against a Federal Government, agency and it's departments, it may be possible to argue the point of the interpretation of "government officials acting in their official capacity", in this case?
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bemis12 Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Apparently not
beings it got dismissed on those grounds.

There's always trhe chance to sue him over the tsunami. :crazy:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Excuse me? Then explain the Paula Jones civil suit.
How did it proceed?
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qwghlmian Donating Member (768 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. The Sovereign Immunity extends to
"government officials acting in their official capacity". That didn't apply in Paula Jones civil suit.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. That is a reasonable explanation. However, is there a line in there
somewhere that excludes fraud, conspiracy, treason?

Sovereignty may give him a bye on incompetence & negligence, but surely not the above?
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qwghlmian Donating Member (768 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Basically, on matters that relate to his
official capacity, he cannot be sued period. The only remedy in cases of "fraud, conspiracy, treason", if they can be reasonably asserted or, even better, proven, is to go to Congress for impeachment. If you go to Congress with the assertion that Bush et al had "roles in engineering and orchestrating the 911 attacks", you will be laughed out of the building, if not slapped first. Not one Congressmen will even listen to this allegation. Wouldn't you agree?
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Oh, I'm sure we could get at least one Congressmen to agree.
I think you need to find your audience. You need to find those Republicans who lost loved ones in the WTC in order to sell this. If someone has proof of "fraud, conspiracy, treason" you need to give it to the people who are going to hurt Bush the most. And that's the people who would actually vote for him. Once they're sold, then the rest will happen by word of mouth.

On our side, we must mock the right for being as corrupt as Bush, because only people who are equally devoid of morals would stand by and say nothing.

Remember, in Clinton's case, the Dems distanced themselves from Clinton. I don't see any such distancing from the Republicans which tells me that they are as devoid of morals as Bush is, unless they do or say anything to prove otherwise.

As for the merits of the case as a civil lawsuit, if there is any facts in this case that would allow it to be tried in a civil court, I'm sure the ninth circuit court will find it.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Hasn't this already been argued when Paula Jones filed a lawsuit
against Clinton? The answer is, yes, a sitting president can be sued.
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. I now read through the links and again, WOW
:wow:
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. But he's NOT invincible. Nor is Rove. No one is.
Every meets their 'Waterloo'...eventually.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-16-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. This is a huge development....
Please send this to Conyers and inform him about it. Send it to others as well. Looks like we opened a new can of worms.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. I think the conviction is done through the impeachment process
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Green Thumb Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Suing because * orchestrated the attacks?
No wonder we are viewed so well by the MSM. :crazy:
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Hilton according to this has the inside knowledge to bring this suit
posted by slave
excerpt

"Stanley Hilton is not just some low profile character himself, he was a former chief of staff to Bob Dole(early 80's). Has been a lawyer for 30 years, and a classmate to Paul Wolfowitz and other notable neocons.

And I quote

..."At the University of Chicago, in the late 60s with Wolfowitz and Feith and several of the others and so I know these people personally. And we used to talk about this stuff all of the time. And I did my senior thesis on this very subject ? how to turn the U.S. into a presidential dictatorship by manufacturing a bogus Pearl Harbor event. So, technically this has been in the planning at least 35 years."

Do we see the pieces coming together, another thing alleged from the lawsuit is there were 35 drills going back two months prior to 9/11 involving planes crashing into the pentagon etc. 5 drills on 9/11, Mike Ruppert is going to expose this fact in his book 'Crossing the Rubicon' "

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread80501/pg1
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Here's how we can be successful at a 9/11 suit...
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