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Conyers says more than one Senator will join to contest election on Jan. 6

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:06 PM
Original message
Conyers says more than one Senator will join to contest election on Jan. 6
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 06:09 PM by Faye
thank you to JoMama!!! original thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

hope no minds i posted this, JoMama doesn't seem to be around right now....but by request....(also, if anyone has a better idea for a title, let me know. sorry this was too important to wait!!)

JoMama49 (97 posts)
Mon Dec-20-04 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. From the interview: (Ed Shultz radio show)



...He also said he and other would be back in Columbus, OH on the 3rd of January (another hearing?) I'm not sure. He agreed with Ed that what is happening in Washington State with the Governor's race WILL SET AN IMPORTANT PRECEDENT for counting votes in other states. Apparently, there are several hundred absentee ballots that were just set aside by the poll workers, who then forgot to count them. Will the Washington Supremem Court allow them to be counted in the recount? If they do, then other forgotten or misplaced or election poll worker mistakes will have to be rectified in a recount. And, yes, at the end Ed asked him if he thought one Senator would stand up on 1/6 and contest the electoral vote. He said "absolutely", they will, and he believes more than one will stand up and contest. Conyers sounded very optimistic about the whole vote fraud investigation in Ohio and seems to believe we will prevail!
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. awesome. n/t
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. This is why it is CRITICAL that we be in DC on the 6th, back them up! nt
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #59
95. HEre is your DC vehicle Jan.2nd thru the 6th-http://www.51capitalmarch.com
http://www.51capitalmarch.com /

See call to action #5--

If youre in the NYC area call to action #2--

UMMMmmm front page--call to action #2.


2. Picket ABC, CBS, and NBC news studios in NYC: Now until January 6th
Picket at 8:00-9:00AM, the lunch hour, and 4:00-5:00PM
Now until January 6th. MAKE A SIGN AND SHOW UP!


http://www.51capitalmarch.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?boar...

I'm coordinating the NYC effort, got a question----
roger@51capitalmarch.com
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Niche Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kick!
:kick:
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Niche Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Kickin' again so it's burnin' a flame!
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. I listened to the first WA Supreme Court hearing last week
and realized that the Dem side focused on WA on purpose. It is more favorable venue than the OH Supreme Court. The decisions made here will lay the ground work for the rest of the trials.

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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. hmmm... really? This is great news if it does happen.
I'd like to know more on how Conyers seems to know this. I hate to get my hopes up..if you know what I mean.
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pbartch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Conyers has friends over on the Senate side I'm sure.
I wish he would tell who he has been talking to. It would make us all feel alot better I bet. Although he wants to keep that kind of information close to his chest so the Repiglicans don't try to change any Senator's minds.
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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Can't blame Conyers for that (keeping this info low).
Maybe we can get the transcript of his exact words and this will be "his word".
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
77. I heard it on AAR
He definitely said exactly that.
I am one of those people who always wants to be the fly on the wall...you know, what people in power are doing/saying BEHIND the scenes.
A soft spoken man of conviction & integrity....he's nobody's fool.
Much love & prayers are with Rep. Conyers O8)
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #77
97. Conyers has seniority-has been around for years
I have admired Conyers for a while---I feel as if it aint over yet too---that we still have a chance--

Like its the 9th inning of a baseball game--score is 2-3, your team is down 1 run, its 3 balls and 2 strikes. ANd heres the pitch---

What do ya do? Swing the bat as hard as you can, as best you can, Swing the frickin bat.

Because sometimes its a home run.

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /

See call to action #5--DC protest

If youre in the NYC area
UMMMmmm front page--call to action #2.


2. Picket ABC, CBS, and NBC news studios in NYC: Now until January 6th
Picket at 8:00-9:00AM, the lunch hour, and 4:00-5:00PM
Now until January 6th. MAKE A SIGN AND SHOW UP!


http://www.51capitalmarch.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?boar ...

I'm coordinating the NYC effort, got a question----
roger@51capitalmarch.com
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. I agree. Got to keep it quiet. Otherwise they WOULD be harrassed
n/t
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mary195149 Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. what can we expect when a senator(s) contest? n/t
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mary195149 Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
47. If a senator contests the votes,
what exactly does that mean? What is the next step?
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
102. 1 Senator and 1 House Rep contest--the whole LEction is thrown out
Then they debate--and then the House and the Senate vote for President

MSM portest in NYC @ CBS now untill Jan. 6th.

roger@51capitalmarch.com
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #102
124. Nope. That is NOT how it works.
See my post below for factual information on how it works.
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jazzjunkysue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
57. "I'm going to have to hurt you, hurt you, hurt you..."
Just quoting Brain from his immortal musical by Andrew Floyd Webster, "Mice." We're going to hurt the big, smelly neo-cons, and it's gonna be fun!!!! Popcorn, PLEASE!!!
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KarenS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Some (or even one) Senator BETTER stand up this time!!! N/T
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. Let's start visualizing...all 54 standing up! Strength in numbers.
n/t
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Let' s write, email, call and fax them and tell them we expect them to
stand this time! THis is the single most important thing we can be doing right now!!!
See http://election.solarbus.org / if you need more info or ideas on this.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. And better for all of them if more do.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. WA is waiting on the count to decide what to do.
It looks like Wed is the day when King County gives its recount numbers, and the Supreme Court then will decide whether or not to include the mistakenly uncounted ones. Seems like they are playing the game of possibly not having to decide (depending upon how the count without including the uncounted ones goes). If they decide yes, whatever the count is without the disputed ones, woohoo, sets a precident which could go nationally?
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Doctor O Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. It will not neccessarily be a national precedent.
These decisions will be made based on each state's laws, not based on what WA does. The next step is the US Supreme Court.

Also lets not get too many hopes up on Conyers, last time we heard someone say that Conyers was definitely going to object on Jan 6, we found out the next day that he only said Maybe.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. should i take two of those
and call you in the morning?
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I watched the Olbermann
interview and knew what he meant then. It sounds different this time, but I can't wait to hear it for myself. :)
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. In fact, it WON'T be a national precedent
technically, AT ALL. But wherever it goes, it will give other states' courts support if they're inclined to go the same way.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. GOD BLESS ALL OF THEM AND YOU FOR POSTING THIS!
I feel SoooooooOOoooOOoooo much better.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. For 'inquiring minds'
I've sent an email to the show's producer requesting either access to an archive or a transcript of Congressman Conyers' statements. You may also want to write and express interest in being able to access the audio file.

Address is:
james#edschultzshow.com (replace the # with @)

Peace.

"I'm an American patriot; not a pro-fraud, torture lov'in theocrat"
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. Do they televise this? Does Cspan covering the vote thing
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 06:39 PM by rockedthevoteinMA
in the senate?

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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. This will be historic. They'll have to. n/t
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. thank you n/t
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Truman01 Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
89. Does anyone know when the last Protested election was?
I mean in the house and senate on 1/6?

TC
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. AWESOME!!!!
Keep this kicked!!!! :kick:
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Keeping hope alive! Kick this one high!
:beer:
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zimba Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
20. What a wonderful man Conyers is, and
I sure hope he's right about the senator thing. Oh please Oh please oh please. After watching the 2000 debates and seeing rep after rep get shut down for not having a senator, Im keeping my fingers crossed.
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
22. On January 3, Jesse Jackson & Rainbow Coalition/PUSH
is currently scheduled to hold a rally on election fraud in Columbus. This was posted on DU last week after a JJ interview.

Thanks Faye! Post much appreciated! :toast:
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Jan 3 Vets Memorial at 5:30
I was invited for an "Oath of Office" Swearing In of two Columbus Dems, MaryJo Kilroy and Paula Brooks on Jan 3 at Vets Memorial at 5:30. I wonder if the dems rented the hall instead of the litigating groups, because they have already been denied a rally permit on 12/12- 51 Steps at the Statehouse, then again denied using the Statehouse for the Conyers Hearings.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #26
140. Denied a rally permit??
Soooo, does this mean they get to jail us ALL?? Then so be it.
:evilgrin:
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
23. Which begs the obvious question....
WHO?

-Hoot
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. John Conyers for President !
I love that man.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. 270 electoral votes to that congressman!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #24
99. absolutely!!
John Conyers I'd walk through fire for ya!
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. I could kiss that old man right on the lips
If he wanted me to. Otherwise he could have my vote anytime.
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The_Mule Donating Member (264 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick for John Conyers!
:kick:
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
29. Hallelujah!
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #29
43. I love that little hamster dance, that's how I feel right now reading this
thread!!!

Kick! :kick:
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. Pentecostal Hamster raises paws to Jesus for thanks!
Gotta love hamsters!
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shiina Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. Dare I hope? n/t
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks! We needed that!
I still keep thinking how tired they all must be right now! Cliff Arnebeck too. They're all so courageous!

Good to hear! Thanks!
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. Do not tease me.
Go Conyers!

:kick:
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. It will be great if the election fraud gets some decent media
coverage for a change! And bad for Bush if he "mandate" is taken away--boo hoo. But is the Republican Congress actually going to not vote Bush into a second term? It would be a real shock if that happened. But we will be vindicated eventually, whatever happens. Oh for the book royalties!
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Pepper32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. Great news!
I can't wait to see it happen. :D
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JoMama49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks for posting this, Faye!
I've emailed the Ed Shultz show producer and asked her (Wendy) about listening to an archive of the Congressman, and I'll let you'all know when they email me back. In the meantime, you can go to Ed's website at www.wegoted.com . His show is on M-F at 3 - 6 EST. AAR plays him out here in the West from 12 - 3.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Shout out to Conyers!
Edited on Mon Dec-20-04 08:05 PM by senseandsensibility
Conyers has a very amiable, easy going affect that is misleading. Even Bob Nofacts likes him, and has stated so on Crossfire. Just a couple weeks ago, some on this board were saying he wasn't aggressive enough. But he rocks!!!! :yourock:
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SueZhope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. true at first glance he comes across soft spoken and perhaps speaks slowly
However what matters.......
is his courage and what he is doing and that speaks volumes....

he does :yourock:
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #55
136. Kind of like Grady on the old Sanford and son.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. Woohoo!
Here's hopin!

But I'm still gonna write Senators and bug em!
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. Ditto
:thumbsup: Keep up the pressure everybody.


This is exciting news-Thanks for posting :dem:
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
41. I predict Kerry will contest with all Democratic senators backing him up.
A huge show of unity. Now how powerful would that be for the party. The alternative is splitting the party into factions.
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femme.democratique Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I agree.
He needs to show some leadership, he owes nothing less! We placed our trust in him. I've been having the same inkling about this, I think he will contest the election in his role as a Senator.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #44
68. I believe he will too.
Gives me goosebumps.
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17yroldtwins Donating Member (69 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
146. I'm a little late to the party today, but I think you're right! n/t
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banjoman Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #41
157. what are you smokin? (don't inhale)
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
42. And while they are at it; Protest and Contest Naming of Iraq War
Bushilter War
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. only with the subtitle: "Operation Halliburton."
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. That would be fine also...
Take cans of oil with casualties pictures on can to contest.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
51. Kickedy Kick Kick
Well, I most certainly hope that this comes true! Conyers is definitely my current favorite LEADER in Washington. Just imagine what all of this will mean -- I seriously, seriously doubt that the bush media would dare keep quiet on this. No way in hell could they get away with doing that... People the 6th of January shall hopefully prove to be MOST interesting.

John Conyers should end up being Time magazine's Person of the Year for 2005 if this pans out as I feel it will!


Pump it up people! Pump it up and keep it pumped! :puffpiece:

Let's all celebrate and keep the hard work up! :grouphug:

John Conyers - :yourock: !!
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
52. I just love good news!
Thank you Congressman Conyers, you are the MAN! :yourock: :loveya:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
54. So, if no Senators actually do join the challenge,
does that make Conyers a liar? :shrug:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. So, if a Senator or Senators actually join the challenge
does that make your negative posts any less significant than they are now? :shrug:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
103. Doesn't anyone find it odd that Conyers won't name the Senator?
:shrug:
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #103
104. are you insane?
why would he do that? no one should really know who it is until it happens. i fear for these people's lives!! and especially if he thinks more than one will stand up - and what if one of them were a Republican? I think we better be patient and see on Jan. 6th.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #104
147. They haven't bumped off Conyers
Why would anyone else need to be afraid?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #103
108. NO, wouldn't want the rethugs or the admin to put pressure
on the individual or individuals, now do we. Too many people accidently die or commit suicide when opposing the BFEE.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #108
148. Conyers seems to be pretty healthy
Why hasn't he died accidentialy or committed suicide? :shrug:
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #148
155. He is an army of 1, not taken very seriously by the rethugs.
Too late to influence or silence him.
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tjdee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #103
127. No.
I'm not as optimistic as all these folks, but even if he had the names of a Senator who was going to jump up and down on the sixth he'd keep it to himself so as not to cause undue attention on that Senator.
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pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
56. kickala kickala!! n/t
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
60. Here's to an amazing January 6th
Some fancy kicking to accompany this great news...
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SueZhope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #60
63. Those guys are just to cute Thanks...n/t
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holomua Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
61. Yooooohooooo!!!!
This is WONDERFUL news!!! I hope all of the Democratic senators unite on this. I'm sure they have pretty strong evidence that they can also convince some of the moderate Republicans to join them. Bush has got to go! I can't make it to DC, but I'll be showing my support here in Hawaii.
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osaMABUSh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
62. Recent * poll numbers support this action by a Senator
The polls that came out today show * at 49% - lowest for a re-elected president this soon after the election. Basically, what we are to believe (if we accept the election) is that the public really didn't want him in the months leading up to the election, didn't want him after the election, but somehow on Nov.2 a majority of the people wanted to keep this guy around?? Bull F**ing Shit.

Yes I said the F word - Fraud.

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #62
64. hey i like your name
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 12:00 AM by Faye
meant to tell you that before but haven't seen you over here in a while.

i see you put 2 and 2 together...

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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #62
65. Kick for some Senators with gonads!
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
66. kick
:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:
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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
67. Woo hoo!
ANYONE who does this will have my undying support.
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weeve Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
69. Get on your Senators !
People , it's up to US to bombard our Senators (e-mails, letters, AND phonecalls) to join in on the 6th. Let's get that snowball rolling!

Strength in numbers, and all. No one Senator need fear that their head alone will be on the chopping block if a large group of them stand up for what is fair and right. Let them know that their actions on the 6th will determine what , if any , future support they will get from us.

What a moment that will be , when that first brave Senator stands up to contest this bogus election, and then one after another Senator stands up to join in...
... Jimmy Stewart at the end of "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" ... man oh man do we need that kind of idealism now in real life.

Let's get to work folks ... time's a wastin' !!
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Old Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
70. God, let this be true.
We sure are living in exciting times.
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Old Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
71. All the Senators involved should up their security
and the security of their families as well.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
72. Wouldn't it be wonderful to see them ALL stand up???
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 02:31 AM by proudbluestater
If they ALL stand up, the GOP will not have a "target" to take out in the next fraudulent election. Safety in numbers and all that.

Kudos to my fellow blue stater!

By the way, at congress.org there is a letter to send to your reps asking them to dispute the election on Jan. 6th. One click to send it out. The letter is also available to be edited by you, or you can submit your own letter. I used the one they had and added a few notes, since that letter is mostly talking about voters being disenfranchised.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #72
86. Kick for that, proudbluestater! Thanks nt
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:06 AM
Response to Original message
73. KICK! KICK! KICK! *THE* story of the year!!!
I've got chills. This is IT! This is IT for the Democratic Senators. This is IT for the Democratic Party. If they don't stand up now, en masse, they are finished--and the struggle to regain our right to vote, and to restore democracy in this country, will be so much harder.

In 2004, the progressive grass roots made a decision to cooperate en masse with the Democratic Party leadership, to oust Bush Inc. It was the most amazing political movement I have seen in my lifetime (and my political life goes back to 1960). I have no criticism of anybody--I think it was a truly great campaign--except for this: The Democratic leadership's lack of vigilance in allowing rightwing Bush supporters to gain control of our voting system, with secret, proprietary source code running the central electronic tabulation machines (the ones that count all our votes), and all the other electronic voting machines, with no paper trail in a third of the country. I know Tom Delay blocked their efforts at a paper trail. They should have screamed bloody murder about it. This election SYSTEM was a fraud GOING IN.

They owe us an apology! We worked our behinds off for the Democrats. We won them the election. And now here we are, with goddamned Bush still in the White House.

And if they do it--if they fight this fight the way they should--it will be the greatest politcal event we have ever seen, bar none.

It doesn't even matter if they lose it in the short term (can't get Bush's illegitimately elected Congressional majority to oust Bush). It's the fight that matters, the spirit, the not giving in, the struggle for justice--in this election, and in so much else.

This is where they show us who they are, and this is where they show us that they know who WE are--the people of this country--and what WE want and what we voted for. We need recognition for what we did. The people who voted NEED to know what happened to their vote. The volunteers need to know what happened to their fabulous Get Out The Vote Campaign. We all need the problem laid out in clear terms. The bastards stole the election, and this is how they did it, and this is how we fix it.

And the rest of the world needs to know that we did NOT VOTE FOR THIS SON-OF-A-BITCH, not in 2000, and not in 2004!

One other thing: black voters have supported the Democratic Party with 70% to 90% votes ever since the Democrats passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. What happened to black voters this year in Ohio and Florida is unconscionable. It is an outrage and a disgrace to the nation. Kenneth Blackwell and Jeb Bush and all their cohorts should be in jail for it! And the Democrats--simply as a matter of ethics--owe black voters a mighty defense against this disgusting and criminal assault on their right to vote.

This is also, and more importantly, a matter of the soul. The soul of our country. The soul of the Democratic Party. The essence of our democracy. The Democrats MUST DEMONSTRATE that they still believe in democracy.

And if they do it--if they fight this fight--can you imagine the joy that will flood over the country, and fill the hearts of all those Kerry voters? Guess what?--we actually have leaders. We still have champions in government. Our generosity as a people, our intelligence, our creativity, our tolerance, and our good sense ARE REPRESENTED IN WASHINGTON!

My, my, my. That will be a great day!
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floridadem30 Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
74. kick
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
75. Here is what happens next if a state's EC slate is challenged.
Here is a link to the election law:
http://www.house.gov/cha/electoralcollege/electoralcoll...

So if a congressperson and a senator challenge the seating of any state's slate of electors, then the two houses of congress immediately go to seperate sessions, debate, and in two hours, vote on the challenge. That two hours is strict. No extensions, no filibusters, etc. Two hours of debate and then the vote, by the NEW congress. Republicans have a comfortable majority in both houses. Bush wins.

There seems to be this fantasy around here that a challenge will somehow stop Bush from being sworn in, but it is just that - a fantasy.
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #75
76. Perhaps, but it will help frame the impeachment! n/t
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #76
78. A Republican congress is going to impeach a Republican POTUS?
Another fantasy.
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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. Adding a fantasy
The American populace finally wakes up and takes to the streets when it sees the 2 houses cerifying a fraudulent election?
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #79
80. Yep, A Fantasy. Look, De Plane, De Plane. NT
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:51 AM by Silverhair
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #78
93. The outrage in the country by Feb or March will
be so strong, I'd give impeachment a 50/50 chance, yes. Bush's popularity is sinking like a stone. Support for the war is sinking like a stone. Conservative congressional repubs are already growing restive under Bush. And if the electoral college vote is seriously challenged Jan. 6? I think we're in for a pretty good show!
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #75
81. I agree that if it comes to a challenge
We lose. Even if Arnebeck wins his suit and has 20 EVs sent to congress for Kerry instead of the ones for Bush (which is still a fair possibility), there is nothing stopping a republican challenge to the Ohio EVs, in which case, they will win as well.

There does not appear to be much chance to correct this travesty of democracy.

But that isn't the point is it. The point is to show them (and the rest of the world) that they are a corrupt group in total power, and that at least half the population isn't going down the road to Hell with them.
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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. sorry to say this
but Conyers' wonderful leadership deserves a much better following and visible public action than we are providing
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #81
85. If the purpose is theather, that is one thing.
But don't sell it as somehow stopping Bush from another 4 years.

There is a fantasy around here that upon the challenge being given, that everything stops while and a congressional investigation takes place. It doesn't work that way.
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #81
94. I don't know, bernie --
If OH sends another set of electors, it means that the OH Supreme Court (or, the U.S. Supreme Court in another scenario) has announced to the world that the OH election was fatally corrupted. I think it'd be VERY hard for even a Republican congress to spit into the eye of that fact.

SO this is my favorite "fantasy": backed into a corner by the results of Arnebeck's lawsuit, it will end up being the congressional Republicans who will actually have to hold their stomachs as they elect John Kerry.
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verdalaven Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #75
83. I love fantasy
I am one of the crazy Dems that believe that repubs aren't all scum, nor do I think that all of the repubs in the Senate are swooning at Bush's feet. I wouldn't be surprised if Bush's supporters dwindled to nothing as the scandal really gets going. We just need to keep mailing them, especially the repubs, reminding them that their loyalty should be to the Constitution and to the citizens they serve FIRST, Bush and party, second.

I am in Michigan and I am really proud of Conyers!
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. True, not all Reps are swooning at Bush's feet, but...
I don't know of ANY Rep congresspersons or senators that are in love with Kerry. Party discipline will hold firm here, very easily.

Any Rep that jumps ship here will find it next to impossible to bring home the pork to the people in their home state/district. That means real trouble next election. Look at all the influence Jeffords lost. He was a star for two years, now neither party has much need for him. He is up for reeleciton in 06, and will face opponents from both parties.
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verdalaven Donating Member (495 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #88
96. Isn't that the unfortunate part.......
We all know that Kerry shouldn't be the issue. The issue should be whether or not the repubs are willing to back an administration that is holding office fraudulently. I would think that backing Kerry would be better than going down with a sinking ship, but, I'll concede to your point because I really don't know that much about the inner workings of our political arena.

In any case, after Jan 20th, if Bush is inaugurated, it will all be about impeachment. I'll hold onto the hope that the repubs who worried about appearing to support Kerry (by defending the Constitution and their own constituents' rights to a fair election) will step up and make sure this man doesn't finish his second "term" in office.
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #83
91. I second that...
...I am so proud to live in the state he represents, even if he does not represent my district.
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #91
98. Me, too! Hey, this must be the Michigan DU caucus!
And I think our obvious good sense must come from the better air and water here in the midwest!
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SharonRB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #98
101. Must have helped to make us a "Blue State"!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #83
138. The odds of The new congress voting for Bush after a challenge
go down just a bit if we put Peeps in the streets, Thats why Kip Humphreys work is so important.
Make like a Ukrainian
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Truman01 Donating Member (733 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #75
92. If a Senator does stand up he/she will need our support later...
because the Repugs will seek to punish that Senator and as a result that Senator's state by marginalizing anything they are in support of. So we need to understand that any Senator who does stand up is putting themselves on the line. This isn't a easy thing for them to do because it will not be forgotten by the majority party.

And before you get started Faye, I'm not being negative, I'm just trying to shed some light for others on why this isn't an easy decision for ONE senator to make. I think it would be easier for all the Dems to object than for one to.

TC
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #92
122. Very True. And if ALL the senators were thinking this way...
we would have heard serious rumblings of it. Thunderstorms rarely break suddenly. Usually, you hear the rumblings before it gets to you.

I know one of the delegates to the National Convention, and talked to him about it today. Nothing. So if anything happens it will be a senator doing the Lone Ranger bit, with no Tonto. And it could well be the end of his career.

However, if genuine hard-core, smoking gun, can't be explained at all, EVIDENCE is produced of MASSIVE election fraud, then things could change. I don't think that will happen.
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #75
106. Sounds too good to be true
But think how sweet would that be if it happened!
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. sorry--meant to reply to the main post!
whooops.
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Old Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #75
113. but this will happen with the full unblinking glare of the MSM
The senators will have to balance their own appearance to their constituents with their actions. It is important the argument be excellently framed.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #113
123. Yes. And the MSM has said that it is "Internet Conspiracy Theory"
Now whether you believe the MSM is right or wrong is beside the point. The fact is that "Stolen Election Claims by Democrats" = "Internet Kooks" & "Crybaby Losers" IS what is in the general public's minds. Find me a senator that wants to public to think of him in those terms.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #75
128. How do you now there are no
Republicans with the integrity to vote with the Democrats over such widespread, palpable, often even truculently obstinate electoral crimes?
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #75
137. U R right thats so massively different from what I posted----------
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 06:23 PM by FogerRox
Yawn
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
84. Thank you, Faye.
This made my day!
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liam97 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. Actually Faye
Arnebeck said something along the same lines as you are saying - perhaps we are too limited in our vision of the possible. However, I renew my call to do things that provide visible support to Conyers for his stellar leadership
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
90. Kick all the way from South East Asia
:kick: I have been following all this since Nov3rd. This election stinks. I think Jan6th is important. I think all your representatives going to stand up with all their gun blasting

:kick: I cant be in DC Jan 6th but I can light a candle, I can send a belated New Year card to all the medias in my country and I can give them a big :kick: for you guys.

For those who cant go to DC why dont try lighting candles, putting up signs or just send a card. Many organise peaceful support even that allow all to take part. Show support by just leaving something at a certain spot.

:kick: Cause just like you we are the people of this world. When we have war and hate we get turn into soldiers, we fight and die or we are civilian casualty, we lose our home, our love one, our life, our wealth and we leave a big burden on our future generation.

:kick: I know its going to be a tough fight . Bush and Co. cant afford to lose. They going to fight back with everything they have.

:kick: I hope your rep got all the ammo they need by Jan 6th.
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StephanieMarie Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
100. kick n/t
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
105. God I hope so!!
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peabody71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
109. This is our legacy!!
NAtional Standards for elections.
It is implicit in the constitution the we have the right to Vote.
States rights on this issue must be abolished.
This is our first and last chance!!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
110. maybe you guys will understand these lyrics now
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 01:07 PM by Faye
that i posted a month ago and no one would read :P

think of whats happening now and read these lyrics!

change,
everything you are
and everything you were
your number has been called
fights, battles have begun
revenge will surely come
your hard times are ahead

best,
you've got to be the best
you've got to change the world
and use this chance to be heard
your time is now

change,
everything you are
and everything you were
your number has been called
fights and battles have begun
revenge will surely come
your hard times are ahead

best,
you've got to be the best
you've got to change the world
and use this chance to be heard
your time is now

don't,
let yourself down
don't let yourself go
your last chance has arrived

best,
you've got to be the best
you've got to change the world
and use this chance to be heard
your time is now
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #110
115. You should email those lyrics to Ed Schultz before his show, today!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #115
116. haha
i don't know what he'd do with them. actually, he should just play the song on show :D
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #116
119. Exactly!! (n/t)
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
111. And the only way the Republican Party can save itself from the ROT WITHIN
is to stand up and join the contest.
Are they smart enough to save themselves?
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
112. got archive link, or more transcript?
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #112
114. here
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weeve Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. Which Dems will we support in the future ?
Obviously the only ones that I will campaign for/support in the future are the ones who stand up and fight for Democracy now. National Vote Tabulation Reform Act of 2005 ( sounds good? ). If they're not on board with this issue now, I'm not on board with them in the future. It's really not who sits in the White House now ... it's the integrity of the Vote tabulation ... all else flows from this simple fact.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #117
120. Correct; and any US Senator that does not stand and challenge...
...., on 6 Jan 2005, the national election process of 2004 is an enemy of our Constitution and our American franchise of democracy.

It's just that simple.

Peace.

"I'm an American patriot, not a pro-fraud theocrat"
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O.M.B.inOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
118. Drink a toast to principled senators!
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m.standridge Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
121. Sounds great--hope it happens: our democracy
needs it to survive, probably. We don't need 6 years of GOP control of all three branches, especially with all this "Homeland Security" and "Patriot Act" and "drug war" and "line item veto" power.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
125. Assuming this happens
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 02:31 PM by Bill Bored
It will lead to hearings, etc. but if we can't prove Kerry won Ohio, either the first time, or with a re-vote, it's only for show. It will rasie the public's awareness, which is great, but further actions are necessary.

We should sue the states to PROVE that our votes are being counted as cast, with a view toward getting the secret source code from the machines released for expert inspection and to get a verifiable paper trail in every state and the auditing laws to actually USE them to audit EVERY election.

Remember, congress does NOT control elections, the states do!

Make them prove our votes count! Since they CAN NOT, the process of discovery will reveal all, and force change!
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #125
126. This is an interesting take --
I've heard this idea before, and couldn't get my brain around it for some reason. But, the more I think about it, the more sense it makes. PROVE THE VOTE WAS ACCURATELY COUNTED!
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #126
145. Right!
The whole basis for the fraud allegation is that the DREs, central tabulators, etc. have proprietary code, so there's no way to verify them, except manual recounts. These can only be triggered under state laws and usually only when the outcome is very close. But if they're hacked, the outcome may never be close enough for a manual recount, and in the case of DREs with no paper ballots, it's impossible.

Ergo, in such states, there is never a reasonable certainty that the vote is accurate.

I started a thread about this a while back, trying to develop some interest, and a DUer called "read the law first", who is a lawyer had some comments. The most optimistic of these so far was this:

"The issue that you raise is whether your vote was counted as you cast it.

The burden under our system (rightly or wrongly) is on the complainant. You don't meet your burden of proof by just saying that "I have no confidence in the system." You basically have to rebut the retort, "Well, then that's a problem for you." You have to adduce enough evidence to answer back, "No, because of x, y and z, this is a problem for you."

I say that x, y and z are:

- Because of the secret ballot, in order for me to know that my vote was counted as cast, we need to know that ALL votes in the state were counted as cast.

- Proprietary software: I.e., the state in fact does not know what these machines are actually doing. Are they counting votes, calculating the orbit of Mars, or ???

- IT security issues: How does the state know there is no unauthorized access to or tampering with the data? Prove that the data has adequate security, availability and integrity.

- DREs without paper trails: There is no means for auditing of the election results and no means to manually recount.

This is just my short list, but I'm sure if we all applied ourselves and called on the true experts in the field, we could come up with a lot more.

I was thinking of starting a new thread, clarifying this, but no point unless we keep it kicked and all that.

Note that I'm just concerned with the 2004 election, which may be beyond repair at this point (but hopefully not). I'm concerned with all future elections.

Thanks for your interest!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #125
139. Have you all seen this? We the People Do Not Concede (link)
http://www.unioncountyfordemocracy.org/files/we_do_not_...

We the People Do Not Concede!
In a true America, leaders serve only with the consent of the governed, and that consent must be obtained by lawful elections that accurately measure the will of the voters. We shall not tolerate any violation of this fundamental principle, the SOLE moral tenet on which our nation was founded and has since relied.

The voting systems and practices used in the conduct of this past election are so clearly flawed that the results in nearly every state are wide open to corruption by systematic vote suppression, data manipulation, human and machine error, and consequently, willful fraud. The only certain result is that we can have NO confidence in how accurately they gauge the will of the electorate.

We refuse to further descend into the Stalinist perversion of "democracy;" in which "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." Such was the clear underpinning of the 4-year-old edict of the 5 black-robed political operatives, who arrogated to themselves the perquisite of sentencing the nation by their fiat to live under appointed rule as opposed to elected leadership.

We the People, through our representatives, have set out our election laws to ensure that election results reflect OUR will. In far too many states, demonstrable errors and anomalous patterns of result have rendered the "official" tally suspect. More tragically, the systems and processes implemented by "experts" now make it impossible for us to rule out corruption without further investigation and audit.

Given the likely consequences of once again tacitly accepting corrupt results, the moral burden must now be on each state to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that their results are accurate and lawfully obtained. There is no other patriotic option.

But let us be clear, IF WE ARE UNABLE to obtain this proof under current election law, through civil and/or criminal judicial means, then we MUST RESORT to a political solution and demand that our Congress reject the electors from ANY STATE that fails to validate its results through comprehensive, apolitical investigation and audit.

Our law is intended to serve our will, not thwart it. We can never again allow a "technical" or "legal" arguments and rationalizations to trump reality as we did in 2000.

NEVER AGAIN.

What We Require
To prove that their election results were lawfully obtained and reflect the will of the voters, we demand that each state:

Provide the data required to prove they did not create discriminatory barriers to voting.
Across the nation, people were forced to wait for hours to even attempt to cast their ballots. This onerous waiting time constitutes a de facto poll tax (time is money). Each state must provide data on wait times at each polling place, demographics of the registered voters served by the polling place, and the number of resources (voting machines, poll workers) assigned and working during operating hours. The burden is on the state to prove, not simply assert, that its practices were not discriminatory.

We will not accept any argument that the discrimination would not have affected the outcome. Such arguments are a sham. Are systematic violations of voting rights OK for those who live in a state in which the margin of victory for one candidate or the other is large? Of course not! Further, if any discrimination is found to be racially based, as was the legal finding of the US Commission on Civil Right in the 2000 Florida election, such a result is unlawful, as well as being intolerably immoral and contrary to American values.

Whatever the margin of victory or number of electoral votes, if any state FAILS TO PROVE that the existence of poll-tax-lines, or any other unnecessary obstruction to voting, was not correlated with RACIAL, SOCIO-ECONOMIC, or PARTISAN STATUS of the voters, that state MUST NOT be afforded the privilege of participation in the electoral vote.

Provide to all responsible, professional investigators any necessary records and full access to systems and software, in order to PROVE THAT THE RESULTS WERE NOT CORRUPTED by manipulation, human or machine error, or fraud.
Acceptable investigators will be those sanctioned by any court, professional organization, political party, or other bonding entity willing to warrant their actions. These investigations must be provided the records and access required to examine:

Every tabulation system that consolidates results at any level (e.g., GEMs tabulators).

Every "black box" voting system.

Every undervote, overvote, and spoiled ballot occurrence.

Every voter registration record and known voter registration agents and entities.

Every absentee ballot request, delivery record, return envelope, counted and disallowed ballot, any and all records of absentee vote and ballot disposition by any agent or entity.

Every provisional counted and disallowed provisional ballot, unfulfilled provisional ballot request, provisional ballot inventories for each polling station, any and all records of provisional ballot disposition by any agent or entity.

ANY STATE THAT REFUSES to make every effort to successfully confirm that their published vote tallies are free from manipulation and/or error MUST BE considered morally irresponsible and acting contrary to agreed upon American values. There CAN BE NO ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE or rationalization that can compete with the restoration of confidence in our electoral process.

For such a circumstance there can be no other moral or patriotic response than full criminal investigation and prosecution, civil pursuit of maximum remedies for damage to the body politic, and DENIAL OF THE PRIVILEGE of participation in the Electoral College for any tainted, irregularly appointed, electors who might endeavor to infect the process.

We will accept no verbal assurances, no misleading representations from partial investigations, no shifting of responsibility onto the media or the public at large, and NO DELAY OF ANY KIND.

On this there can be NO COMPROMISE of what is required of us, NO RETREAT from our historic duty, and NO SURRENDER to any agent, foreign or domestic, that would even contemplate any act of obstruction.

November 7, 2004
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #139
141. Hey, who wrote that? It's damn good. n/t
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #139
143. Well, at least I'm not the only one who's thought of this!
That's the beauty of the Internet!

So what do we do about it now?

I had a quick look at the pending bbv lawsuits and so far, there's nothing like this! Robert Wexler's is probably the closest and he's been having trouble with his suit in FL, but that's not too surprising is it?

Is this group also the one with that thedeanpeople.org site?

It has also occurred to me that even if there are some red states that don't buy into this, they may not have enough electoral votes to throw future elections. So let them have all the bloody fraud they want. If the blues and the purples can have honest elections, we should be in much better shape than we are today.

Of course we should try for ALL 50 states AND DC!
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #143
156. Yes, it's the deanpeople site. Have you seen this? Cuts to the chase on
the real issues with fighting for this election. I'd like to see this and "We the People Do Not Concede" spread all over the internet. They give us a powerful position from which to speak.

Restoring Sanity, Point-by-Point: Creating the Context Required to Win the Fight for the Integrity of This Election
http://www.unioncountyfordemocracy.org/files/restoring_...

Simple truths and simple moral positions cut through the damaging assumptions and rationalizations that are blocking us from effectively fighting for the integrity of THIS election. It is time to turn the tables. Below (in this document) you'll find a list of the assumptions and rationalizations that the MUST BE challenged if we are to restore sanity to the discussion. Each notion that must be challenged is followed by the simple truth and moral position that sets the notion on its head.

This is the website these came from:
http://www.unioncountyfordemocracy.org/
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
129. he just played the snip again on his show
and Ed says WOW
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #129
130. And Salon says different?
I wonder when Conyers gave the Salon interview?
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. i would assume before yesterday
i mean yesterday was LIVE when he said it.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #131
132.  I think so too. Do you think Salon should be contacted? I wonder if they
would add to the article. Maybe as an update?
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
133. see this thread, Conyers says the opposite
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

from Salon.com

Has any senator said to you that he or she will call for an inquiry?

No, I haven't talked with a single one. I'm not citing somebody who I know is going to do it. I'm not aware of anyone. I just don't think the Senate would get caught in that position.
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #133
142. I too would say this, timing is everything.
If I knew a Senator planning to do it I would not tell the press in advance.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #133
144. He also says...
"Well, there are Republicans who support what I'm doing who haven't been willing to come forward. Look, calling for fair elections is not the most radical thing in the world. We're not positing some revolutionary theory here. We're asking that the people who complained be given a fair hearing." in the Salon interview.

My thought is he knows exactly who is going to step up from the Senate, and he'd be a fool to tell anyone ahead of time. Also, I do think there are some senators who wouldn't care how they were labeled by the * followers. Kennedy and Byrd come to mind immediately, I'm sure there are more.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
134. Raw Story Just Posted...
Rep. Conyers asks networks for raw exit poll data...

Should be more details soon....

I'm sure someone will create a post as soon as more info is available; this is just a 'heads up' as I'm off to a several hour meeting...

Peace.
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demo dutch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #134
135. I love it! Conyers is quietly plugging away!
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banjoman Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #135
158. just send money
he's pulling yer chain, while he trolls for cash for a possible senate bid in 06.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 02:43 AM
Response to Original message
149. still looking for some quotes or audio link!!!
I can't find the direct quote anywhere or an audio link. If anyon has it please say so
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #149
150. the quotes are in this thread
Edited on Wed Dec-22-04 03:12 AM by Faye
Ed Shultz aired it again today (well the 21st) because people were asking him thru emails to play it again. he only played the clip of when Conyers said he would contest the election and that more than one senator would as well.

Shultz announced on the show that he doesn't post archives of his shows because of a low budget. if you STILL don't believe it, email him yourself and ask him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #150
151. it's not that I don't believe it
in order to PUBLISH it I need the direct quote.

I want to put it on solarbus website
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #151
152. that's gonna be hard
Shultz won't put an archive up :( if i were you i'd email him and see if he could at least send you a transcript of the quote. i dont' know what else you can you do. :shrug:
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SueZhope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #151
153. Hi garybeck I found the post with Conyers words
Its in this thread posted by George W. Hayduke
i heard it also and this sounds very accurate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

i just heard again on the Ed Schultz radio show. Ed just played the clip from the interview again today:

paraphrasing, but 99% accurate, especially the last part:

Ed: Do you think they'll be a senator that will contest the election?

Conyers: Absolutely.

Ed: Really?

Conyers: Oh, they'll be number of them I predict.
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noclonyofthechimp Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-22-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
154. Letter from "Contest the Vote" indicating that Barbara Boxer is consider
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