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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:29 AM
Original message
Ohio recount- Cuyahoga County ballots pre-sorted
From votecobb site.

Anomalies were found. Almost all of the witnesses that I spoke with felt that the ballots were not in random order, that they had been previously sorted. There would be long spurts of votes for only one candidate and then long spurts for another, which seemed statistically improbable to most.

From what they were able to get through, witnesses found that signature counts were very much different from the official recorded number of ballots.


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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kick!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. why isn''t anyone doing anything about this?
almost every single county so far has not been cooperative and have done fishy things. this isn't even a fair RECOUNT, let alone original count.

how much are 'we' we going to let them get away with? what can be done about all this? i feel like time is running out. i'm getting angry.
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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Some people are.
From what I can gather, some of the volunteers are in contact with the election challenge lawyers and are providing them with videos, accounts, etc. of these "irregularities" and assorted violations. There was a long thread by dzika about the experiences of Katrina Sumner, who is apparently reporting her data to lawyers. Anything to help the case.

And you're right, it ISN'T a fair recount.

Read RaulVB's thread on Coshocton Co. results. There are interesting issues raised in it but one important point (IMO) is that this Republican county, which had about 17,000 or so votes and is not under suspicion by our legal eagles, saw a 23-vote Kerry gain in its handcount. For contrast, recall that Warren County, where nearly 95,000 votes were cast, did a machine count and saw a difference of... 3 votes. And a one vote gain for the shrub.

I am trusting the election challenge team right now. I posted that thread yesterday theorizing that since the recount is becoming such a farce, they might be trying to use it to retake the original crime scene. Looks like it might be correct. Whatever they're up to, they are smart and VERY thorough people.

They're on it.
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. Faye, I share your frustration.
The recount was done in total disregard of the written rules. It was intentionally rigged and, what's more, it was rigged the same way in almost every county. This reeks of an orchestrated campaign. Or, to use a more accurate word, a conspiracy to illegally rig the election. I guess that makes me a conspiracy theorist but this conspiracy is right out in the open. How could almost all the counties decide to not follow the rules in just the same way if they weren't directed to do so?

If the recount can totally disregard the written procedures and there is no legal recourse then we are no longer a nation based on the rule of law. The SOS, or corresponding position of each state, becomes the law. We can never in the future have any hope of a fair election if the rules for counting the votes can be made up after the votes are cast and made up in such a way that the in-power party can get the outcome it desires.
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. And to the republic for which it stands. Yeah. Sure. What republic? nt
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I volunteered in the Ohio recount, the experience was educational
They are only counting the precincts they have choosen rather then a random sample, they have it all figured out in the counties of Ohio, they are sand bagging us all with the set ups that they are controlling. I helped in the recount of Ohio and they only let us look at the precincts that they choose to let us research, they did not do a random selection as they were suppose to, nor did they let us look at the polling books, absentees and provisional ballots which would have helped us with verifing totals recorded by the counties. The Director where I assisted told us in fact that he did not want to use to many machines in the recount and wanted the closes precincts that would total to the 3% needed for the recount. This was a little fishy but along with this the poll workers who were helping in the recount effort did not seem to know how to take care of any problems concerning the scanners. After working the polls on election day you would think that they would be more then a little effienct with the machines but they were not. In fact, they complained about having to even do the recount and acted like it was a total waste of time and effort not that this was a Democracy at work. In fact they were upset to the point that they kept asking if this was the last time they would have to do any recounting since it was such a waste of time and effort, a very negative additude towards a recount for sure. The Deputy Director had to keep coming over to fix the machines for them, now how would this work during election day ??

The Director and Board also told us that if the voter did not vote in two federal electons sequencely that the voter would be dropped off of the registion list. This I found to be very disheartening but along with this issue I also saw overvotes where a voter had mark a candidate but then also wrote in the same candidate but this vote was not counted even though it was obvious to all who they were voting for, it was Bush, boo, but still it was an uncounted vote. We were told that there were not many of these kinds of votes and not to worry about them anyway, I was upset at the casual way these votes were dismissed by this board. I told them perhaps I was a little extreme but if a vote was obvious why not count it, and they had no answer for me but because the machine could not read it, how many other obvious votes were not counted because a machine could not count it ?? How many voters could not vote though they had not moved because they did not vote in the last two federal elections ?? Are these not examples of voter disenfranhisement ?? After my experiences these last few weeks, I am aware I do not live in a Democracy but a dictatorship of the many officials who run these elections for us right up to the top of the Republican party because they make up the rules. Are we going to allow this to continue and put flowers on the bed of Democracy's grave or fight to bring her up from the dead ??? I hope it is as obvious to you as it has become to me that our elections are manipulated by these self serving individuals.

Finally, I had forgotten my purse and I had to drive back to get it. When I went into the
Room where we had done all the counting of the ballets it all looked like it did when I left with one new piece. The tapes from the scanner were sitting on the top of the table under which my purse laid. I looked around and there were no election officials to be seen. I could have picked them both up and walked right out of the room with them. Just how secure is that for you, election tape for recount out in the open for all to obtain, hmmmmm. Oh well as they would say, just another day in the neighbor.

I am one deeply concerned American Citizen.
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mdb Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. I've noticed...
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 02:47 AM by mdb
they seem to be showing (of what has been available through the media) security when everyone is recounting. I have a feeling it is all show.

I was reading in one of Cobb's reports where someone was asking if they just wanted to add the few new votes found to the computer or do they want to go to the counting station.

Here is the section.

After the counting was completed, they were told to save the results to disk. I asked for a printout of the totals from the counting machines. Mr Walker asked me why I would want that when it would be the same as the printout from the BOE. I said that I wanted it anyway. At that point he noticed #6 ballots on top of machine #1 that had not been counted. He told me he couldn't give me a printout until he found out what to do with these 6 ballots. He said that he was going to ask Becky whether she wanted to add them in on her computer or have them do it at the counting station. (Good to know it can be done on her computer).
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. Thanks for your most informative post.
And thank you for your work in Ohio.

The ballot box is being removed as an instrument of change in this country by the Bush Crime Family and mindless fascist such as you describe in your post.

We have allowed these people to sabotage elections all over the world for the last fifty years in our name. They are now applying what they have learned to the "homeland."

Liberties relinquished are seldom restored.

God save us all.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Apparently, the opposition thinks
it's the Free one.
Screw 'em!
Our guys will get them.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for the update and link....very interesting and very upsetting...
The BoE people are intimidating witnesses, whether its intentional or not....I found it interesting too that there were references only to the Bush/Cheney Lawyers, but no mention of Kerry/Edwards lawyers....Where are they? :eyes:
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Don't tell us, they opted out again?
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
6. kick! More chicanery.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. amateurish, in the extreme
Pre-sorted ballots? I guess they're still in the "first they laugh at you" phase there in Ohio.

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Ellipsis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. I don't think it's presorted.
I wonder if it's counting and then assigning votes according to some predetermined ratio.

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Goldeneye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. They're only recounting 3% and running them through the machine
Edited on Sun Dec-19-04 09:15 AM by Goldeneye
to see that the hand count and machine count come out the same. No predetermined ratios are necessary. Besides they're recounting whole precincts, so there is no need to figure out representative samples.
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Turn CO Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. Drip, drip, drip. Something new uncovered all the time... n/t
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henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-19-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. IMO, too many with their hand in the cookie jar to cover the tracks. nt
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