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Stop it! Stop it! We need to unite! Don't be sour if your guy's out.

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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:27 AM
Original message
Stop it! Stop it! We need to unite! Don't be sour if your guy's out.
You need to stop attacking Kerry and Clark. My preference is Kerry, then Edwards, then Dean and then Clark. Having said that...I feel any of the top 4 could get the job done as president.

I lean toward Kerry as the most electable, and I like his background.

Quit attacking these guys with stupid references to a gesture or a look or whatever you seem to be finding. It is so petty.

Get on the DEMOCRATIC TRAIN to the White House. If we are all disciplined and find one common voice of outrage and disgust with the imperialistic, political, evil, environment-ruining, gay-bashing, discrimination-minded Bush White House, we shall overcome.

Please stop the attacks. Say something good about your candidate. It may have more of an effect you want and you won't look so pathetic.



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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Dean/Clark/Edwards people need to unite to get a better candidate
At this point i don't really care with one it is b/c all 3 have more passion and want it more than Kerry could ever dream about!
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HuskerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. What about Mr. Hamm........... I heard he was still in it
how bout him?
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cprise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. You must be kidding
The minute Dean and Clark drop out (if they do) Kerry goes back into Bush-fellatio mode.

His opposition to Gulf War I makes him UNelectable to just about everyone.

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Metrix Donating Member (293 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Kerry was in good company on Gulf War I
January 12, 1991

Nays (47)
Democrats (45 or 82%)
Adams, Akaka, Baucus, Bentsen, Biden, Bingaman, Boren, Bradley, Bumpers, Burdick, Byrd, Conrad, Daschle, DeConcini, Dixon, Dodd, Exon, Ford, Fowler, Glenn, Harkin, Hollings, Inouye, Kennedy, Kerrey, Kerry, Kohl, Lautenberg, Leahy, Levin, Metzenbaum, Mikulski, Mitchell, Moynihan, Nunn, Pell, Pryor, Riegle, Rockefeller, Sanford, Sarbanes, Sasser, Simon, Wellstone, Wirth

Republicans (2 or 5%)
Grassley, Hatfield
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well!
Waaaaaaaaaaahh!!! If my candidate doesn't win the nomination, I'm picking up my marbles and voting for Nader!! Waaaaaahhh!! :cry:
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I'm ABB but i want the poor people I see around me every single day
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 12:35 AM by Melodybe
to have a better life. A Kerry win, only means bu$h doesn't get to do any more damage.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!! good one!
nice....

just what we need. more Nader converts. Well, I don't know what to say. If some of these militant "My guy or no one" Democrats really stick to the guns and vote for a third party candidate or don't vote, then they are providing aid and comfort to BFEE Military Junta. They are part of the problem.

GET THAT FOLKS? If you really adopt your "Stop Kerry" attitude, then you DESERVE BUSH!
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. And you had the same feelings............
about the stop Dean campaign here as well? Suck it up, it's going to be a long hard ride. I believe most here will stand behind our ultimate choice, but until then there's going to be much discussion and all of it won't be pretty.
Remember, this entire attack mode started when Dean was the front runner and Kerry people were going ballistic about it. It works both ways. It'll all settle out in the end.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Bush is the worst president in history
Why in the world would America be so concerned about finding someone that can beat Bu$h. Truth is any of the democrats can beat him. You are buying into the lies they have been beating into our heads from the beginning.

I was part of that 10% on Sept. 12th that KNEW this administration was going to milk the loss of 3000 people for everything it was worth. I never believed the WMD trash they were feeding us. i never believed in this war. The people that are jumping on Kerry's wagon bought that shit hook line and sinker. That is the reason Kerry won tonight, the media picked Kerry. Now Americans are just following suit. He is not the best candidate and he does not care the most about the American people.

This win just shows how easily Americans are swayed by the media. That is going to be our biggest obstacle when facing Bu$h. In October expect them to start really cooking the polls and pointing out Kerry's weaknesses. By Nov. Americans will actually believe that bu$h has a chance in hell.

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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I know you're super-smart, and had it all figured out....but
consider this: if you believe your idea that the US people are so easily swayed toward the "safe" candidate and center...why would you follow up with the idea that Dean can appeal to so many who don't feel their daily life is horrible? They need to have a reasonable alternative to the guy in office. Frankly, as wonderful as Dean is and as much as his message resonates with the liberal base, he doesn't have a CHANCE against Bush machine. Really. It's the case.

What we need to do is realize that Gore won despite the fact that he was a walking/talking stereotype of wonkish, goof who arrogantly looks down his nose at Americans. He won despite the fact that Bush had no record to judge him on (They were very careful to limit his exposure by setting him in a weak governorship).

Now...with all the damage he did, there are still a bunch of media-driven bozos still going in support to Bush and his psychos. We have to contend with that. If you make their choice at the poll a little bit harder to judge...if they see a reasoned, seasoned leader in the (D) column, they just may be pissed off enough to cast their ballot for our guy instead of the murderous Scrooge.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. At least Dean is clean and has the balls to be honest.
I have spent a lot of time, trying to find the dirt on Dean. I have gone to Vermont's records I have read their news papers from 1997. Every single thing Dean said he was going to do he did. Every questionable thing he did had a positive flip side. Dean has a real record of making people's lives better.

Dean knows that their isn't any shit on him, so he can be as honest as he wants. Kerry on the other hand has a closet full of bones, so he plays it safe.

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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. You SAW the sealed records?
No kidding? If they are so clean, why did he seal them, and fight to keep them sealed?

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Dark Star Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. I was just going
to waste some time explaining why Dean is not clean with some good old anecdotal VT evidence; but, your post says it better.

Thanks. :yourock:
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. This bears repeating...
Yeah, Dean is Mr. Clean! NOT!


Kerry has the best record of fighting and beating republicans who were violating the law and federal regulations

Nixon, Reagan, Oliver North, Iran Contra, BCCI, and it goes on.

You will find absolutely nothing in Deans record of opposing Republicans and stopping them from forcing through their agendas while he was governor, you will not find one instance in which Dean raise a finger to stop large corporations from their abuses or violations of environmental or any other kind of regulations at all.

In fact, as governor, you will find that Dean supported Republican ideals, as well as having been supported by Republicans:

Monsanto's Intimidation Tactics Continue

Headline: Monsanto Unit Challenges Vt. Cow Hormone Licensing Bil Wire Service: DJ (Dow Jones)

Date: Wed, Jan 14, 1998

MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP)--Monsanto Co.'s (MTC) Protiva unit said it will stop selling the artificial bovine hormone recombinant Bovine Somatrotropin, or rBST, in Vermont if a bill requiring that it be licensed passes the Legislature...

With that provision, the state can keep track of who is using rBST and who is not, said Rep. Jenny Nelson, D-Ryegate, a member of the conference committee that approved the measure. There is no licensing fee. Dean said he would veto the bill because of the licensing provision, which he opposes not because of Monsanto's threat but because he knows farmers are against it. The bill also seeks to authorize a voluntary labeling program so consumers can select dairy products made without the use of rBST.

http://www.organicconsumers.org/rBGH/MonIntim.html

In 1998, Monsanto sent a letter to policy-makers in Virginia threatening to sue the state if a proposed voluntary BST labeling bill became law. Governor Howard Dean reversed his earlier support for the bill and instead threatened to veto it.

http://www.tv.cbc.ca/newsinreview/mar99/milk/other.htm

Monsanto's Legal Thuggery

Monsanto's legal team began 1998 by taking on the State of Vermont and its attempts to pass a very weak rBGH law that merely required Monsanto to register with the state and make its client list available to state authorities so "rBGH-free" claims could be verified. The company responded by publicly threatening to sue the state and stop selling its products in Vermont if the bill passed. Governor Howard Dean, feeling the lobbying heat from Monsanto and its rBGH-addicted farmers in Vermont, came to Monsanto's defense and pulled the plug on the measure by threatening a veto. The legislature then went on to further soften an already spineless bill by removing the section that required the drug manufacturer's client list. Eventually, after yet another legal threat and a "closed-door" meeting with Governor Dean, Monsanto backed off and let the near-meaningless legislation go into effect.

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/24/monsanto.html


Dean was accused a number of times for vetoing legislation or standing back and not helping democrats pass legislation designed to require pharmaceutical companies to give the state the same kind of deep discounts and rebates for drugs it purchased to provide through Medicaid, or through the VSCRIPT program, allowing "Big Pill" to bilk the government and citizens of Vermont for enormous sums of money:


Reports also described allegations that Governor Dean vetoed a pharmacy bill after collecting $ 6,000 in campaign contributions from drug companies.

. The influence of out-of-state donations: "Outside money is one of Howard Dean's specialties. Of the $ 312,290 the governor raised for his 1996 election, 65 percent came from out-of-state contributors: labor unions, Washington lawyer-lobbyists, the health care industry, to name a few of the special interests." n13 For the 1994 election "Dean, for example, received more money from major pharmaceutical manufacturers during the reporting period ($ 11,000) thin he did from people and companies located in Burlington ($ 10,460)." n14 One editorial said, "it's no mystery why out-of-state contributors pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into Vermont campaigns. ... They're trying to buy influence. But the cost is public trust." n15

Bryan Pfeiffer, Dean Angry About Pharmacy Veto Criticism, News Story, Rutland Herald, June 16, 1994


http://www.brookingsinstitution.org/dybdocroot/gs/cf/headlines/cases/LandellvSorrell.DOC

Challenging Pharmaceutical Industry Political Power in Maine and Vermont Ramn Castellblanch San Francisco State University

Legislative backers of S 300 in Vermont had little time to effectively build support for their bill. In addition to the demands the civil union bill was making on their availability, the legislature has one of the smallest staffs in the country. 5 Vermont legislative leaders had few people to whom they could delegate the task of obtaining support for the bill. Having relatively little time for the prescription drug price issue, Senate President Shumlin and Senator Rivers were not able to wage a strong campaign to gain the support of the press or to rally grassroots support. Shumlin and Rivers also did not have time to meet with pharmacists themselves to allay their fears. The senators could do little to ease the pharmacists' apprehension that they would lose money under S 300 or to keep them from opposing the bill.

The industry built a house coalition to block the price control bill. The house had a thin Democratic majority. To block the bill, the industry needed all house Republicans and a few of its Democrats. Republicans tend to receive larger shares of their campaign dollars from business than do Democrats. Public demands for social programs must generally reach a level at which failure to provide them would unmistakably cost elections before most Republicans would support them. Given that they were not feeling a great deal of grassroots pressure for price controls, the Republicans could be counted upon to oppose S 300. For its Democratic votes, the industry looked to four to ten "blue dogs," Democrats who sometimes voted with Republicans. Two of the blue dogs, Reps. Michael Flaherty (D-South Burlington) and Hank Gretkowski (D-Burlington), were retired pharmaceutical salesmen who opposed price controls. Flaherty and Gretkowski found enough other blue dogs to join with them that, together with house Republicans, price control opponents had a majority. S 300 was blocked in the house. After it was clear that S 300 was blocked, Governor Dean announced that he would not veto it. His "support" was too late. Had he acted earlier in the legislative session, he could have used legislative items sought by the blue dogs in bargaining with them on the prescription drug price bill. By the time the governor indicated his support, there was little left with which to bargain. His support also came too late for the independent pharmacists. Had his support come earlier, he might have helped persuade independent pharmacy owners that the bill would not reduce their revenues


http://www.metrostate.edu/cgi-bin/troxy/lproxy.cgi/URL-www.press.jhu.edu/journals/journal_of_health_politics_policy_and_law/v028/28.1castellblanch.html


Or

How about the questions about Deans sealed records and the questions about his relations with several large energy corporations, and the sale deal he made for them, thne receiving money for his current presidential campaign from the energy company executives for changing the sale from a company that already had been selected, to another company that put in a new bid, that was not in any way more advatageous to the people of Vermont, but to Howard Dean campaign funds:

CLF seeks details of Dean administrations talks with utilities
March 11, 2002

(from the State section)
By SUSAN SMALLHEER Southern Vermont Bureau


MONTPELIER The Conservation Law Foundation will file a freedom of information request with the Dean administration today to find out how many contacts it has had with Vermont utility executives over the pending sale of the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant.

Mark Sinclair, senior attorney with the environmental group, said Monday that recent news reports about {b]the financial contributions made by Vermont utility executives or board members to Gov. Howard Deans presidential campaign political action committee were too much of a coincidence.

Sinclair said the new offer from Entergy Nuclear of Jackson, Miss., last week wasnt substantially better than the original bid, and doesnt really address the serious concerns raised by the state earlier this winter about local control and other economic issues.

The department didnt get anything, he said.

Sinclair compared it to the negotiations with Vice President Dick Cheney by energy companies that are now subject to an investigation by the General Accounting Office.

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/Archive/Articles/Article/43924


In 1998, Dean's Vermont similar task force met in secret to write a plan for revamping state electricity markets that would slow rising consumer costs and relieve utilities of a money-losing deal with a Canadian company.

The task force's work resulted in Vermont having the first utility in the country to meet energy efficiency standards. It also freed the state's utilities from their deal with a Canadian power company, Hydro Quebec, that had left them near bankruptcy but passed as much as 90 percent of those costs to consumers. Utility shareholders also suffered some losses.

The parallels between the Cheney and Dean task forces are many.


http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/76581

Then on top of this, Deans total flip flops on Iraq are legion.

Dean was talking about supporting unilateral invasion of Iraq before Kerry or the other candidates had signed any legislation regarding Iraq:

Face the Nation, September 29, 2002

DEAN: Sure, I think the Democrats have pushed him into that position and the Congress, and I think that's a good thing. And I think he is trying to do that. We still get these bellicose statements.

Look, it's very simple. Here's what we ought to have done. We should have gone to the U.N. Security Council. We should have asked for a resolution to allow the inspectors back in with no pre-conditions. And then we should have given them a deadline saying "If you don't do this, say, within 60 days, we will reserve our right as Americans to defend ourselves and we will go into Iraq."


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/30/ftn/printable523726.shtml


Salon.com, February 20, 2003

"As I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.

http://www.howardsmusings.com/2003/02/20/salon_on_the_campaign_trail_with_the_unbush.html

Dean's flip flops on the threat of Saddam Hussein

Viewing Saddam Hussein as a threat



"I agree with President Bush -- he has said that Saddam Hussein is evil. And he is," Dean said. " is a vicious dictator and a documented deceiver. He has invaded his neighbors, used chemical arms, and failed to account for all the chemical and biological weapons he had before the Gulf War. He has murdered dissidents, and refused to comply with his obligations under U.N. Security Council Resolutions. And he has tried to build a nuclear bomb. Anyone who believes in the importance of limiting the spread of weapons of mass killing, the value of democracy, and the centrality of human rights must agree that Saddam Hussein is a menace. The world would be a better place if he were in a different place other than the seat of power in Baghdad or any other country. So I want to be clear. Saddam Hussein must disarm. This is not a debate; it is a given."

A month later on Meet the Press, Dean said he believed that Iraq "is automatically an imminent threat to the countries that surround it because of the possession of these weapons."

Dean may have thought there was "no question" that Hussein was a threat before the war, but looking back now, his hindsight is telling him the opposite. Just this week, for example, Dean mentioned at the DNC's New Hampshire debate "that there was no serious threat to the United States from Saddam Hussein."

Similarly, the New York Times reported today that Dean said, plainly, "I never said Saddam was a danger to the United States, ever." In light of the Face the Nation quote from 2002, we know that's just not correct.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000940.html

Now loets look at what a number of Vermont Progressives and Liberal Democrats have to say about Dean and who and what he stood for:

Those who know Dean say hes no classic liberal
By ROSS SNEYD

Associated Press Writer


Dean kept his distance from his partys liberals during his governorship.

"He seemed to take glee in attacking us at every opportunity and using us as a way to form alliances with more conservative elements," said former state Sen. Cheryl Rivers, a leader of the state Democrats liberal wing and former chairwoman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee...

...Dean trimmed spending or held down increases in areas held dear by the liberals. More than once, Dean went to battle over whether individual welfare benefits should rise under automatic cost of living adjustments. Liberals were particularly incensed when he tried that tactic on a program serving the blind, disabled and elderly, which he did several times...

Rivers blames Dean for helping a third political party to flourish in Vermont that many say siphons votes from Democrats. "The Progressive Party gained some momentum during his years as governor because he was so conservative,"

http://premium1.fosters.com/2003/news/may_03/may_19/news/reg_vt0519a.asp


And


Howard Dean: the Progressive Anti-War Candidate?
Some Vermonters Give Their Views

August 29, 2003


I know that a lot of you are going to vote for Dean -- he talks a good game; he can be charismatic and charming. But I'm warning you. This man will tell you what you want to hear, or at least tell you something that has some little kernel of something that you can interpret as support for the things that are important to you. But when the time comes to stand up and lead on the issue, to take on the money interests and backsliders in his own party, that stiff little spine will turn into a slinky.

If you vote for him, it's your job to stand behind him with a poker and keep him headed in the right direction. Don't give him any honeymoon period, either--keep the pressure on from the second you drop that ballot in the box. The minute you relax, he's going to turn right back into what he really is...a privileged, arrogant, middle of the road republican. Put your political energy into getting some truly progressive folks into the House and Senate, and into State legislatures around the country so that there will be more pressure from more directions. We need to get together our sophisticated progressive thinkers to develop policy ideas in every area, so that we're ready with real, well-thought out counter-proposals for the incremental changes a Dean administration might put forth. If you feel you must, support Dean, do--but then go do the work necessary to make real change.


http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs08292003.html


Who's the Real Howard Dean?
As Vermont governor, the liberal firebrand was a fiscal conservative with close ties to business



Conservative Vermont business leaders praise Dean's record and his unceasing efforts to balance the budget, even though Vermont is the only state where a balanced budget is not constitutionally required. Moreover, they argue that the two most liberal policies adopted during Dean's tenure -- the "civil unions" law and a radical revamping of public school financing -- were instigated by Vermont's ultraliberal Supreme Court rather than Dean

Business leaders were especially impressed with the way Dean went to bat for them if they got snarled in the state's stringent environmental regulations. When Canada's Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd. wanted to build a new manufacturing plant on 700 acres of Vermont farmland in the mid-'90s, for instance, Dean greased the wheels. Husky obtained the necessary permits in near-record time. "He was very hands-on," says an appreciative Dirk Schlimm, the Husky executive in charge of the project.

And when environmentalists tried to limit expansion of snowmaking at ski resorts, "Dean had to show his true colors, and he did -- by insisting on a solution that allowed expanding snowmaking," says Stenger. IBM (IBM ) by far the state's largest private employer, says it got kid-gloves treatment. "We would meet privately with him three to four times a year to discuss our issues," says John O'Kane, manager for government relations at IBM's Essex Junction plant, "and his secretary of commerce would call me once a week just to see how things were going."

Still, Dean had a knack for positioning himself and never lost an election. Those who know him best believe Dean is moving to the left to boost his chances of winning the nomination. "But if he gets the nomination, he'll run back to the center and be more mainstream," predicts Stenger. Says Garrison Nelson, a political science professor at the University of Vermont: "Howard is not a liberal. He's a pro-business, Rockefeller Republican."


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_32/b3845084.htm

Some Republicans back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau


MONTPELIER - Democratic Gov. Howard Dean got a boost from the other side Thursday when a group of prominent Republicans turned out to support his re-election bid.

Led by South Burlington attorney William Gilbert, a core group of 11 Republicans said they believed Dean has proven his ability to lead the state in a fiscally responsible direction and for that reason, and his nine years of experience, he is their choice over GOP candidate Ruth Dwyer...

Even Dean acknowledged that his fiscal policy was the common ground he shared with the nine men and two women at the table, most of whom admitted to voting for Dean in the last election.

The group, known as "Republicans for Dean" represents the first organized GOP endorsement for Dean in any of his five campaigns

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/repbackdean.html

P.S> the William Gilbert noted above was also the head of Deans secret energy group.


The record is clear. One truth that Howard Dean speaks in his presidential campaign is the line about the fact the "The biggest lie that people like him tell people like us when they are running for president is that "They will change America". The truth is that You will change America."

In Dean's case this is particularly true, as it is clear from his record, that once in office, he will do little if anything to keep the promises of his campaign. That is is history"
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Repeat it again and again and again and again
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 06:56 AM by molly
"The record is clear. One truth that Howard Dean speaks in his presidential campaign is the line about the fact the "The biggest lie that people like him tell people like us when they are running for president is that "They will change America". The truth is that You will change America."

In Dean's case this is particularly true, as it is clear from his record, that once in office, he will do little if anything to keep the promises of his campaign. That is is history"


I'm hoping some of these people read your post. I fear that they do not want to see the truth about Howard Dean. Those records are not sealed because there are NOT "good things for the people" in them.

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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
28. I was talking to my sister last night....
and she told me that if Kerry gets the nod, Nader will have no problem getting to the matching funds level...including her vote. She hasn't chosen somebody to support yet, and isn't terribly active in politics.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. millions of anti-war marchers
will be looking for a candidate that is anti-war.....

much to think about.
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Snivi Yllom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. maybe...
but there might be a much better alternative to Nader and the Dem. candidate.
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dontstopthere Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
6. i don't care about being super progressive
right now. All we need to do is stop bush. I support any dem running against bush and I think that if we stop him and clean up all of his regressive environment and budget policies we will be winners.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. Hi dontstopthere!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
13. DLC/Establishment has ended Dean's campaign
Is anyone paying attention? Establishment machinery, opposition research, money, and media contacts prevailed.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. that's hilarious. you make no sense. Dean had the press, the $$,
the polling, etc. But SUDDENLY, the voters had a say. You don't realize the irony that Dean's demise is a perfect example of "POWER TO THE PEOPLE". Media...this board...everyone had crowned Dean and now it's a new ballgame.

You don't want to admit it--Kerry is a better candidate for General Election than Dean.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Kerry will be a disaster for Indiana Democrats!
We may end up losing the Governor's race because of Kerry.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Whoah, back up and expound on that,
would you please??

What does Kerry have to do with Joe Kernan??
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Printer70 Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Sorry, bad logic
To assume that voters had the "choice" because they were conned by the Establishment-driven media is to negate the logic behind any sort of campaign finance restrictions. One could argue we don't need to limit corporate political contributions because ultimately "voters have the say" at the ballot box. That is ignorant of the role that big money has in shaping media coverage. The DLC/Establishment launched a character assasination campaign against Dean with all the money and media contacts they could afford. Simple fact is that the Democratic Establishment bought the primary.
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freetempe Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Dean had the press?
You mean the whores howling about how unelectable he was and how angry he was and how mean he was? Or how about the rest of the empty suit insiders sliming him? I think it had an effect on the sheeple.


Kerry is a 40 state loser folks and if the party nominates him, we deserve four more years of Bush.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Yes, many are paying attention...
See post # 16.
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 05:05 AM
Response to Original message
21. umm...didn't you post this same exact thing last night?
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
22. "my way or the highway" huh?
you know who lives by that ittle motto, don't you? None other thn * and the BFEE gang. Sure everyone wants his/her candidate to win, but goal number 1 is to send the space cadet and his cohorts back to Texas (or Mars, whichever is faster!) These petty attacks on Kerry and anyone whos's not Dean are so counterproductive...can't we all just get along?
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tryanhas Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
27. If you are going to unite behind Skull and Bones
Edited on Wed Jan-28-04 01:18 PM by tryanhas
then unite behind Bush.

There's no difference between Kerry and Bush, period.

Skull and Bones has to have Democrats and Republicans on their side, but they are still working towards the same end, and part of that is to have Skull and Bones in the White House.

I WON'T unite behind a FRAUD like John Kerry, period!
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
31. Only Gephardt and CMB are out
so as they say in joisey.. Stick It
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