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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:10 PM
Original message
What is your opinion of "Democrats For Life?"
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 12:42 PM by katinmn
http://www.democratsforlife.org /
They are also against stem cell research

Here's the list of Dems For Life "All Stars"
http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=com_co...

My opinion is that they have a "lock" on who in each state gets endorsed by the national Democratic Party.

As an example, our local Air America affiliate AA950 is owned by the President of the Board of the Dems for Life and has prohibited discussion of abortion and gay rights on her station without "prior approval."
http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=com_co...

For another example, the DCCC supports an anti-choice candidate - Elwyn Tincklenberg -- over the progressive pro-choice Dem candidate from the same district in Minnesota, while ignoring grassroots appeal for Scott Mortensen, who also supports gay rights and is for immediate withdrawal from Iraq. The DCCC, from Pelosi to Dayton, have contributed to Tincklenberg's campaign. He is sitting so pretty for money that he didn't even have to go and sweat with the other candidates at the state fair this year.

On the other hand, DFA (Democrats for America), the organization that encourages grassroots involvement in the process, has supported Mortensen who is in the running for a DFA A-List endorsement. (You can look it up on the DFA website.)

Democrats for Life people are taking this issue away from the grassroots and they are doing it under the radar which I think is despicable.

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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. You may wanna edit your post,
I think you've confused your acronyms and I'm finding it a bit hard to understand.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Yep, %$#%^ acronyms!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I, personally, am a PDA fan
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Then you most certainly do not support Dems for Life
PDA speaks for me as well.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hm, where can you find who in each state was
endorsed by the national Democratic Party? Just curious. I didn't think they did endorsements?
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. What exactly is the "national Democratic Party?"
Are you talking about the Democratic National Committee? The Democratic National Convention?
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I dunno, I guess I'm asking the OP.
From her post: "My opinion is that they have a "lock" on who in each state gets endorsed by the national Democratic Party."

What does that mean?
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. The DCCC has chosen to support financially and feature on their
website the anti-choice, anti-gay rights, pro-war "democrat" from Minnesota and refuses to acknowledge that another Democrat (a progressive one) is running for the seat as well.

Giving money and featuring a candidate on the website is an endorsement, maybe not a formal press release type of endorsement but an endorsement nonetheless.

The DCCC claims it's an "open seat." It's not open when there are two Dems vying for the seat.

I and many others have written to those senior Dems in DC who gave money (including Pelosi and Dayton) and we get either no response or a statement that they don't give money before the primary, which is not the case. I've also been writing to the DCC and trying to ad comments to the blog but I have never gotten a response or acknowledgement from anyone.

They are really starting to piss me off because we need grassroots candidates. They are ignoring the people and bolstering one candidate and ignoring another.

The DFA on the other hand, is at least acknowledging the grassroots candidate and giving him a chance to compete.

I guess it all boils down to it being the difference between how the establishment works versus the grassroots. DNC as compared to DFA.

Any advice would be appreciated.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Well....
Establishment vs. grassroots candidates isn't exactly anything new. We are getting the same thing going on here with the gubernatorial race -- a rumored "establishment" Dem candidate (who hasn't exactly declared yet) vs. a more "grassroots" Dem candidate. In those cases, the only think you can do is support your candidate and go to as many Dem functions as possible to get the word out about YOUR candidate. We have found here that the regular party activists are much more 'netroots' and in line with Dean's thinking than the 'old guard' so to speak. But if you have enough of the voting Democratic support it is certainly possible to overcome the influence of the old guard. I've seen it happen in a couple of cases, not the least of which was the election of Howard Dean as the DNC chair.

You do need to distinguish between the DCCC and the DNC -- they're different organizations, I believe.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. yep, I know they are they are different
The DCCC is the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee

DNC is the Democratic National Committee

I believe the DCCC is divided on what is the right thing to do but listen too much to the DNC. The DNC is on the wrong path entirely. I signed up for their emails and read their website for a few weeks. It was enough.
:-(

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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. The DNC is headed by Howard Dean.
I have a lot of confidence in him. Why do you think they are on the wrong path?
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Dean is wonderful, I love him! The establishment Dems don't though
Remember the fight they had when the grassroots fought for him and he won the role with the DNC? Big fight: "Dean doesn't set policy," etc.

He's making a helluva difference, though, and I think they are starting to come around. I think we would be worse off without him.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I am talking about those in leadership positions and the DNC
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. different strokes...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. You have the Dems for life listed under the DFA all-stars. Edit, please.
Here is the list of DFA All=Stars.
http://tools.democracyforamerica.com/housevote /

Here on the front page of the blog are the leaders....
www.blogforamerica.com
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Fixed.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Democrats for Life are mostly a religious group, please edit your links.
Thank you.

The owner of the AAR must be Democrats for Life, I think you mean.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. That is correct.
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Beacho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. have every right to have a seat at the table
I've run into many pro-life dems in the past and I always tell them that it is good to have a variety of opinion in the party to have a good honest debate about the issues.

That's what our party is about
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Not when they refused to support Kerry last year.
They actively worked against him in some cases. The Florida Democrats for Life president wrote an article for a Catholic webpage which asked if Kerry were the "Hitler of the Unborn."

The president of Dems for Life gave a speech in 97 implying abortion is murder, and saying they would answer on Judgement Day.

They pushed through the vote to not allow abortion on military bases overseas.

They are working against stem cell funding, I think.

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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Yep. against stem cell funding fo research. It's on the web site, too
I think they have much more in common with Rethugs, myself.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. But my point is that they are stifling debate.
Did you read the point about Air America?

The owner is preventing debate. The candidate she is supporting and showcasing on her station won't even list his positions on his web site which has been up for three months now!


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Shall I do a search on the "Hitler of the Unborn" article.
You might just change your mind.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Just in case you thought I was kidding....Hitler of the Unborn.
And these guys want access to the DNC, in fact they have already been allowed to announce their 95/10 plan there.

http://www.catholic.org/printer_friendly.php?id=1483&se...

Could Kerry be the 'Hitler of the Unborn'?

By Valerie Mierzwa
Florida Democrats for Life of America, Inc.
Op/Ed


I have been accused by more than one Kerry Democrat of being mean-spirited when I refer to John Kerry as the Hitler of the Unborn. I dont use those words lightly. I have carefully considered his voting record on the life issues. I have listened carefully about the promises he intends to keep to Planned Parenthood, NOW, NARAL, and EMILYs List. Kerry Democrats would have us believe that abortions will continue to drop under Kerrys administration, but logic tells me that when he revokes the Mexico City Policy with his first promised Executive Order, millions of abortions will occur worldwide through the use of American tax dollars. I see clear parallels between Adolf Hitlers master plan and John Kerrys moral relativism concerning the value of human life. Therefore, I feel this image of Kerry as the new Adolph Hitler is justified.

When I visited the Holocaust Museum in Washington, DC, I was greatly moved by the visible record of Hitlers diabolical plan to replace an entire continent with the Aryan race. He didnt just limit his hatred to the Jews. We know that he also murdered Catholics, Gypsies, homosexuals, and the handicapped. Watching the footage of the carnage, videos that were placed discretely behind four foot high walls to shield the horror from the eyes of children, I could not help but see a connection between the disrespect that was shown to those innocent people who were victimized by the Nazis and the millions of innocent, unborn babies who have been legally slaughtered worldwide all in the name of reproductive rights.

John Kerry say he respects life but he cannot legislate an article of faith. Would Senator Kerry have stood silently by if he had been a politician during the reign of Hitler? Based on voting record, apparently he would have. If we are going to truly respect life, then is it not just as wrong to cut innocent children into pieces in the womb or suction them out with a vacuum as it was to drag innocent people from their homes, herd them onto trains, strip them naked, and send them to their deaths in gas chambers?

Kerry Democrats say that abortion is a non-issue to them. They like to call it a wedge."

Lots more if you have the stomach for it.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Wow, this is a really extreme view.
:mad:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. I have several threads here about Democrats for Life
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 12:53 PM by madfloridian
And about the Third Way group of Democrats. When search is disabled so much, it is hard to find the archives.

They are more about piety and religion than being Democrats.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Agreed. They are well on their way to taking over the Dem Party
and they will if people don't wake up and pay attention to what is going on in their own states and nationally.

They, too, are about legislating morality.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You have two examples.
Hardly a sweeping trend IMO. Got anything else? For example, compare the list of the Dems for Life with the people the DCCC gave money to in the last election and see what kind of a match you come up with. Could be fun.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Those are 2 good examples from my state. Check this out
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 01:06 PM by katinmn
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

DCCC is supporting the one annointed by Dems for Life, at least in Minnesota.

Democrats for America is supporting the progressive Dem, the one with traditional inclusive positions.

edit: I think everyone should take a look at their own states.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I don't know how to find out who DCCC supports?
Do they have a page on their website?

I looked at your link, there's only two Dems for Life people on the list from my state anyway.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I'm back! here's the link for the 2006
http://www.dccc.org/campaignforchange/candidates /

I'm not sure who they endorsed in 2004.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Interesting -- the only Texas guy on there is Lampson,
Tom DeLay's opponent, and he's not on the Dems for Life list, so that particular datapoint doesn't compare.... . :shrug:
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Maybe the Dems for Life just have to much influence in my state
I cannot say they have influence in other states, but they seem to have chapters in every state and elected Democrats as members in each state.

Again, my main point, for which I gave MN examples, are that they are pushing the anti-choice candidate and they have gotten the DCCC to buy into it, at least for Minnesota.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Maybe you have to have over a certain % Dems before they show up.
:P
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. LOL. Meanie!!!
It's the gaddamn people migrating to our suburbs that are ruining the state.

I live in a wonderful blue oasis (St. Paul) and I grew up in one, too (small town in the NE part of the state). 80%+ for Kerry.

For the past few years the reich-wingers are flooding to our state for the good life, building their McMansions in the burbs, driving their SUVs, and suddenly not wanting to pay any taxes.

Minnesotans are kinda trusting but I think our eyes have been opened recently. We will see.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. Ok, the Ron Klein on that list had this to say.
On late term abortion...from 1997

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:OPzZXfqghSAJ:www.n...

"Sen. Ron Klein, D-Boca Raton, and Sen. Ginny Brown-Waite,
R-Spring Hill, agreed the procedure is grisly but insisted it should
be available to women who, with their doctors, consider it the
safest abortion method for their circumstances. They said that in
some circumstances, other abortion methods can cause permanent
physical damage to the mother or leave her infertile.
``There should be a right to a choice, particularly in consultation
with a doctor,'' Klein said. ``(Otherwise) we legislators from our
ivory tower in Tallahassee are telling women what to do (with their
bodies).''"

I don't know his views now, can't find them.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Nick Lampson's views from Planned Parenthood research.
http://www.ppaction.org/ppvotes/person-vote.html?person...

Abortion Access for Low Income Women ANTI
Insurance Coverage For Contraceptives PRO
Global Gag Rule PRO
International Family Planning Funding PRO
Confidential Family Planning Access for Minors PRO
Mifepristone (Formerly Known As RU-486) PRO
Abortion Access for Minors PRO
Abortion Access for Military Service Members PRO
Family Planning Funding NIO
Abortion Ban ANTI
Fetal Rights PRO
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. Also from the DCCC link you posted...Baron Hill.
Baron Hill on the issues:

http://www.issues2000.org/IN/Baron_Hill.htm#Abortion
Click here for 10 full quotes on Abortion OR background on Abortion.
Voted YES on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime. (Feb 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mothers life. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003)
Voted NO on funding for health providers who don't provide abortion info. (Sep 2002)
Voted YES on banning human cloning, including medical research. (Jul 2001)
Voted NO on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)
Rated 30% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. DFL is more of a left-wing pro-life group
Most DFL members also oppose the death penalty and Bush's misadventure in Iraq. They take pro-life literally; repukes use pro-life as a code word for legitimized male supremacy.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. They base their views on the moment of conception.
Which of course means they are not in favor of some kinds of birth control pills.

They can't favor the morning after pill because it affects conception. I don't know about other forms, though I know they support some.

Thinking life begins at the moment of conception leads some to get carried away.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm a wannabe member
If it didn't have to pay for membership (I'm too poor), I'd become a member.

My motives are far different from the repukes fake pro-life views: it's a far cry between left-wing pro-lifers who want to protect the little person (even a fetus) from the whims of big people and right-wing anti-abortion fanatics who want to give abusive men a license to dominate and control women through their kids--born or unborn.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. I support choice.
Edited on Fri Sep-16-05 03:24 PM by katinmn
Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion or anti-life.

Pro-choice is about whose decision it is to make those choices.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
30. We are all for Life. They are anti-choice.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yes, we are all for life. They are anti-choice. eom
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-16-05 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
35. I want my uterus to belong to me. Period.
People who are against abortion shouldn't have one. Those of us with an intact mind, heart and soul will always make the right CHOICE for ourselves and our families. I am sick and tired of other people (usually RICH WHITE CHRISTIAN MEN, fercripessake) legislating to control a part of MY BODY.

WHY THE HELL IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND????????????

HOW WOULD MEN FEEL IF WHAT THEY DECIDED TO DO WITH ANY PART OF THEIR BODY WAS LEGISLATED???????????????

TC
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