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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:20 AM
Original message
Poll question: Bill Maher Statement on Election Fraud
From:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/11/lkl.01.h ...


<snip>

CALLER: I'm going to make -- I am going to make two points. Firstly, when you say something like the Democrats just lost it, OK, they lost the election, and you don't touch on the fact that the Electronic Voting Corporation promised, publicly, to hand the election to George Bush. And we know that Ken Blackwell, secretary of state of Ohio, received hundreds of thousands of dollars to purchase voting systems in Ohio. And yet that money was left in the bank. And hundreds, you know, thousands of people in Ohio were denied the right to vote. They waited eight to 10 hours. OK?

And another point is this: The neoleft. And I'm a leftist, OK? I'm 45 years old, and I'm a leftist. But I don't believe the neoleft is leftist. They seem to be more just as status quo-oriented as the right wing.

KING: We get the gist.

MAHER: Well, first of all, we did talk about that. I did try to expose the fact that -- we did it on our last show with Gore Vidal of the last season -- that there were shenanigans in the Ohio election, and I know the Republicans said, well, you know, there are some irregularities. You know, somehow all the irregularities favored Bush. So look, I'm on the page with you. So I'll give you Ohio.

What about the other three and a half million votes that Bush won by? You know, it's -- you cannot solve this problem by just blaming the cheaters. Just assume the Republicans are going to cheat. Because they will. The Democrats have to take responsibility to win an election by getting a considerable amount of votes more than the Republicans do, even with the cheating factored in. And they don't do that by trying to be Republican, which is what they try to do.

There are 79 million people in the last election who didn't vote, 79 million. That's a big pond to fish in. Start fishing in that pond, instead of the Republican pond.

<snip>

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. No, Bill, we don't need more fish. Just indict the poachers in our pond.
Edited on Sun Aug-14-05 10:28 AM by TruthIsAll
Bush didn't win by 3 million.
He didn't win. Period.

It's not just Ohio.
We won all over.

We ARE the majority.
Kerry WON by over 4 million votes.
We just have to learn to count them.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. We need to expose the machines that SWITCHED Kerry votes to Bush.
It doesn't matter HOW far ahead the Dem is over the Republican...if the machine is switching the votes internally to Bush, Bush will ALWAYS win.

They use the media to promote the idea of a close race so the end result is more plausible.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. It was nationwide
Indiana a straight dem. party ticket in some counties = flip of the vote
from Kerry to a 3rd party candidate
106% of the registered voters turned out in Wyoming
Iowa and Florida both had Kerry w/ 10 point leads w/ 30%
of the vote in due to early voting ...... so better then 3 out of
4 voters in the final 70% voted for bush? even in democratic
precincts?
Mercer County PA ?????????????????
Nathan Sproul & Associates were paid million by b/c '04 to
register voters but they pitched all democratic registrations.
Colorado 100,000 voted for bush then voted for a liberal
hispanic pro choice democrat to be senator?
Oklahoma had machines that counted backwards
New Mexico every precinct that used opti scan went bush .....
even the ones that went to Gore in 2000 and had more registered
democrats

I could go on & on ......

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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. TIA! nt.
:thumbsup:
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trogdor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. How do you propose to do that?
We don't run shit. The cheaters run it, and they're not about to put themselves in jail. It's not going to happen. First get power, then start issuing indictments.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. A red-state strategy.
It's not a matter of getting more new people involved, it's a matter of combatting the cWHOREporate media and the way they fail to put Democratic ideas out to the public.

Is there election fraud - oh, hell, yes! And it needs to be corrected. But it will never be corrected until a plurality of people SAY it needs to be corrected.

And the way to get this plurality of people is to win some landslides. Usurp the media and get the REAL Dem talking points to the people in border-line red states, like Arkansas, Virginia, Arizona and New Mexico. Give them a candidate they can sink their teeth into (and I, obviously and admittedly, have a good idea who that candidate should be) and, if that candidate STILL loses, then there will be hell to pay by the electorate. OR maybe that candidate wins and some real reform can start taking place.

But, overall, I agree with what Bill Maher is saying.
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. There can't be hell to pay if
they fix the vote. No way to contest it or prove fraud. Repugs will "win" every time and there's not a damn thing we can dop about it as long as they control and can corrupt the voting process.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. And Dean's DNC is working on the 2008 primaries?
Love Dean, don't get me wrong, but the message is to me personally, the DNC has moved on beyond election fraud :toast:
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. I love Dean too
but agree that if they've "moved on" beyond election fraud then they're just wasting everyone's time, money, energy and hope.
What's wrong with them?!
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Exactly. n/t
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. If it becomes evident to the PEOPLE that their vote is being stolen
then there will be hell to pay. That's what I meant.

When the PEOPLE get pissed off, they will run the scaliwags out of office. Americans have been known to get off their lazy asses and do that from time to time. :hi:

PS - Great choice for an avatar. :)
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I've just lost faith
in enough of the people getting up off their asses and doing something about it. And how will they prove it? But I hope I'm wrong and you're right.

Your avatar is great too.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Glad we can agree on Bill :)
I'm just trying to move on, and since the DNC and DLC doesn't address the election fraud anymore, and keep asking me for money to *defeat the Rove Machine*....I'm really confused about how to support Democrats !?!

That is, many DUers tell me my vote will NEVER EVER count unless we fix the voting system? Stuff like this concerns me in our DU community, also, our Dem leaders stopped addressing election glitches. :shrug:

Yes, I support Bill's statement, 79 million apathetic voters ? Whew, that's alot of people to reach out too, beyond preaching to our choirs!

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readmylips Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. We need to embrace Jesus more....
We need Bill Maher to become Jerry Falwell. Well, long enough until we win the jesus issue back. We need to open up more jesus churches (store fronts for the democrats just like the repigs). Don't forget, small town America understands jesus better than they'll ever understand higher education. Let's raise the bar and give small America what they want; more jesus.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. We need an opposition party with a spine.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I think that's what Bill was saying....
Edited on Sun Aug-14-05 11:27 AM by Catchawave
..also, we have Paul Hackett and Cindy Sheehan's spines to embrace!

Very motivating, imho.

edit: spelling
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. A BIG KICK For Your Statement!!!!
I too live in Florida, and I'm actually totally irritated by so many WIMPS in the Democratic Party!!!

You can name on ten fingers the people who are standing tall for Democrats, the others... well you tell ME???
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. FAULTY LOGIC
"...you cannot solve this problem by just blaming the cheaters. Just assume the Republicans are going to cheat. Because they will. The Democrats have to take responsibility to win an election by getting a considerable amount of votes more than the Republicans do, even with the cheating factored in."

Uh, Bill seems to be saying that "we all know the Republicans cheat, so that means we just have to get a LOT more voters to the polls in order to combat the cheating".

That's just RIDICULOUS.

Because in essence he's saying that if they DIDN'T CHEAT, then they WOULDN'T WIN.

But the burden is on us to overcompensate for their cheating instead of stopping the cheating????

C'mon, Bill, I thought you were SMART.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. But what other logic can we embrace right now....
...I mean, now, 3+ years before the next election? The DNC wants me to donate to elect Democrats in all 50 states :shrug: Is it possible they'll solve election fraud too?
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. No, it's up to US to solve it. We have to work with our state legislatures
on election laws that protect the security of the vote.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. Bill is smart..
.... what he is saying, if I can be so bold as to translate, is that it will be easier to pick up a few million votes than it will be to stop the cheating.

Our "leaders" in Congress either don't believe that widespread systematic cheating is taking place, or they are too timid to do anything about it.

So which do you think will be easier - doing something/proving the cheating, or getting more votes?

Please explain your answer. And understand that we live in the world that is not the world that should be.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. So If Getting MORE Votes Means You Win An Election....
what about Al Gore in 2000? I think think some logic is flawed here!!

Gore GOT MORE votes, but The Idiot got to go to the WH! How does that work?? I do agree MORE people should vote, but Maher needs to address this other issue as well.

There was FRAUD in BOTH of the Elections, both in Ohio & Florida! And how do you account for the EXTRA votes??? Easy... shenanigans ALL OVER the U.S. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to think out of the box! Fixing several machines in every state is all you needed to do, especially the RED states where no suspicion would arise!

It's really NOT THAT HARD!!
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Oh, I share your concern about 2000 Chici,
...but why hasn't the DNC? They've moved on, why haven't we????

That's my angst, Maher is nonpartisan, though it seems he plays by the liberal playbook :)
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I Really Enjoy Maher... And Am GLAD That He's Out THERE
exposing these people for what they are, but Election Fraud isn't easy, and if SOMEONE doesn't jump on it EXTREMELY HARD, well we're SUNK!!!

The only way to rid ourselves of the prospect of more of the same is to IMPEACH HIS BUTT!! Then we'll be rid of the WORST, even though there will be the bits and pieces to gather up!

Until these "corrupt ones" have come on scene, it's NEVER been this bad. I'm sure there has been some going on FOREVER, but not with the magnitude nor the levels it has reached now.

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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Exactly
and how does he propose we get more votes anyway. It's ridiculous. They'll just make sure we don't get more votes (wink, wink). It doesn't matter how many votes we get if they can just switch them over to the R column. We'll never get more votes no matter how many votes we get. What's so difficult for these people to understand this?!
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. I don't think you understand what Maher is saying.
Remember that he mentioned the 79 million who didn't vote at all. If even a quarter of those people had voted for either Gore or Kerry, the margin of victory would have been so high that an attempt at theft would have been blatantly obvious.

The reason we didn't get those votes is the Republican lite DLC written platform. That's what Maher is saying, and I agree with him.

Eliminating fraudulent voting systems is an absolute priority. But it won't change the country if we still get neo-con policies no matter who gets elected, and millions continue to exile themselves from participating in politics as a result.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
20. Then tell the Republicans to
start fishing in their own pond....There is NO way to know how many votes were padded, stolen, or in any other way, compromised, or how many of that 73 million didn't even get to vote when they went to the polls...Damn it, they have Curtis's testimony, under oath, that he was paid by the Republicans to write a computer program to rig the vote...what the hell more do they need to face facts??? The damned election was stolen...as it was in 2000...and as were several governorships in 2002..and the special election of AAnold...the only way to prevent this from happening again, is for the machines to create an impeachable paper trail...give a receipt to the voter, just like the tally sheet you get when you go to the supermarket...what's up with Maher anyway? and WHY should WE have to ASSUME...anyone would cheat in a National Election anyway???? ISN'T THIS A DEMOCRACY after all????
Disgusted...
windbreeze
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. whoops....
should read unimpeachable paper trail....but sure you all picked up on my mistake...
windbreeze
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
25. It wasn't just Ohio, Bill
Altho Ohio is probably where it was most blatant and thus our best odds of proving.

But if they cheated electronically (as I think they did), you can bet they would have cheated to whatever extent necessary to make the outcome go in their favor. In practical terms, there would be no "considerable amount of votes" that would give us a victory. The Repub statisticians would make sure they always got a small percentage more.

Besides all that, it's just unrealistic to think you can tap far enough into that 79 million who didn't vote. There were always be a certain percentage of the American populace who just doesn't want to be bothered. We got more of them out in 2004 than ever before. Perhaps we can do better, but we certainly can't count on it in numbers that will ultimately matter.
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
28. elections are 100% hopeless until Diebold is gotten rid of n/t
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-14-05 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. We need to do both.
We need fair elections with paper ballots, and we need a Democratic Party with principles...

NOT one that is trying to out-NeoCon the NeoCons, out-bible thump the bible thumpers, out-moralize the moralists, out-censor the censors, or out-Republican the Republicans.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. There ya go.....I agree that
...79 million apathetic voters don't see a difference between the two parties, nor do they think their lives will be any better or worse no matter which party controls the country.

Now we can't even guarantee their vote's even counted!

I'm not sure Dean's addressing these problems?

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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
32. How do we get progressives to the polls ?
We know how "they" get conservatives to the polls.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-15-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. How about with a decent party platform?
The Chimpministration has laid out the textbook example of everything wrong with a platform. Yet the self-proclaimed "centrists" :eyes: just want to copy their planks, with maybe a few cosmetic tweaks here and there (i.e. "progressive internationalism" as a new code name for global fascism)

We know that so called "free trade" is a failure which has stolen millions of living wage American jobs. So why not a fair trade plank in the platform?

While claiming to fight a "war on terra", the Bush Criminal Empire has done nothing to secure our borders, seaports, etc, and has instead pushed anti-constitutional crap like the Patriot Act and the ridiculous airport searches. Why not a plank proposing some common sense measures to defend this country from terrorists (as opposed to fictional boogeymen)

It's monday and my brain hasn't quite hit 100% yet, but there's a few ideas. Bottom line is we just can't keep copying their stupid shit platforms.

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