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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 02:49 PM
Original message
Would the Republicans have Dean "rubbed out" if they perceive him as a
real threat - by bringing the Democratic Party back to being in real competition to them?

I'm convinced that is what happened to JFK - he was "terminated" so there would not be a Kennedy dynasty.

In my opinion, the big-wigs in the Republican party are really, seriously dangerous.

I worry about our guy.
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, he needs to stay out of small planes.

The Pugs got two of their Senate seats that way -- Carnahan
and Wellstone.


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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. I agree with that much.
Stay the hell away from light aircraft.
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candy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Oh puhleeze! There were those that thought Johnson was
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 02:54 PM by candy
the man behind JFK's death.

Conspiracy theories. I'm sick of them all.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I was one of those who believed that Johnson was
behind JFK's death. At that time no one knew anything about Bush and family and connections or that he was in Dallas that morning.

Poor Johnson...he took a lot of blame for that one...
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DARE to HOPE Donating Member (552 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. This was just the BFEE's latest attempt...
Edited on Sat Feb-12-05 03:16 PM by DARE to HOPE
...to get the light off of THEM. After all, there is a picture circulating on the Internet of GHW standing in the doorway of the book depository, in addition to the memos which have surfaced.

Isn't it Scotty's daddy who just wrote the recent book pointing the finger at LBJ?

No, LBJ profited by the death. He helped cover it up. But he did not organize and pursue the assassination. Look to the Nixon tapes about "that Bay of Pigs" thing.

Bush and Nixon were the only two people in the country who did NOT KNOW where they were that memorable day.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. And yet they were both known to be in Dallas.
Tricky Dick was at a Pepsi board meeting. Poppy can't account for his whereabouts. The picture of the figure in the doorway of the book depository could be him, but it's not conclusive. Though it's highly unlikely that Poppy was one of the shooters, he was probably the "supervisor" on that particular CIA mission, as he was on the Bay of Pigs operation.

Damn shame that the only two Bush operations that did NOT fail were the assassination of JFK and the establishment of the Bin Laden led mujahadeen which later became "Al Qaeda".
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Bush has steadfastly claimed that he didn't remember
where he was on Nov. 22nd, the day Kennedy was shot. How could that be possible? I, like everyone else, remember exactly what city and even what spot on the ground at the moment I learned that Kennedy had been shot. That one glaring lie by Bush should have been grounds for an investigation of his activities.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. I've said this before
The fact GHW Bush can't recall where he was when JFK was killed means he's the only person in this country who was over 5 years of age on Nov 22, 1963 who can't come up with an alibi.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #27
37. Exactly!
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bmovies Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
34. The mob theory
I've read a few books on the mob and the theory goes that organized criminials had JFK shot.

The first time I read about this claim, that JFK was murdered by the Mafia was in a book called Mob Lawyer by Frank Ragano. At first I rolled my eyes at the claim. But as I read more mob books with this same theory, each book putting in a few more details (for example, I Heard You Paint Houses by Frank "The Irishman" Sheeran ), it's pretty much an eye opener.

Apparently, as the theory goes, JFK had some help from the mob in getting elected. Voter fraud, illicit cash funnelled to his campaign, etc. Then when he got elected, he put Bobby in as his Attorney General who soon went after the mob with a vengeance. The mob felt betrayed and thought of assasinating Bobby himself, but thought better of that. They realized by doing that, they would be fingered as the obvious culprits which could cause alot more headaches than Bobby was giving them. So they knew that LBJ hated the Kennedy's with a passion. With the removal of JFK, LBJ would take his place, and Bobby would be emasculated. Which is what happened.

According to the book by Sheehan, Jack Ruby, a mob connected nightclub owner, was ordered by the mob to kill Oswald or be killed himself. By the silencing of their scapegoat Oswald, they would get away scott free. It's a pretty plausible theory. However, one thing I cannot figure out in this theory is how Oswald came into play as their scapegoat.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Over the past 75 years, dozens of outrageous
theories" have turned out to be fact. Why are you so sure that Well stone's death wasn't an assassination. I've been a pilot for 50 years and have read every air accident report I could during that time. The so-called "facts" released by the govt. didn't come close to
passing any tests of reality. I think he was murdered. But, I have no idea as to exactly who did the deed.
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. Two other deaths bother me also...
Ron Brown and JFK Junior. I really don't thin k that either of those deaths was accidental either.

JFK, Jr's assassination would have been the one to squelch all possibility of a dynasty.
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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. He'll Need Personal Security
For sure he'll need personal security, if he doesn't already have it. The mere existence of Rumsfeld's private staff of spooks confirms that need.

Right now the Pub's are drunk with a wrong premise--i.e., that Howard Dean will lead the Dem's down the path to Hell.

If that changes, and the polls surge our way in 2006, then Dean will need to think about electronic countermeasures (which SHOULD now be in place in Democratic National Headquarters -- have we learned nothing from history?)
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Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. why would there have been any worry about a dynasty in 1963?
Completely anachronistic idea there it seems to me.

As for the main question, if you're going to go there you should at least say certain members of the Republicans, not The Republicans.
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candy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. You're kidding,right?
Jack was president,Bobby was AG,and Ted was senator.Sarge Shriver was in charge of the Peace Corps.

As close to a dynasty as you can get.
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Zensea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. 2 elected and 2 appointed does not make a dynasty
unless you're paranoid & I suppose they could have been.
Just the same, I think this talk of a dynasty is more recent than 1963. I could be wrong of course.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. they own the voting machines
no one is a real threat as long as they are counting the votes
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Precisely... The votes are gold...
And he who has the gold controls the world.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Riiight...
:eyes:
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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. That scream saved his life
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I never thought of that. But, you might be correct.
He was definitely headed for a clear win. He wasn't one of "them".
To some degree, Kerry was.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
38. Nonsense
Dean's family was far wealthier than Kerry's. Kerry worked part-time through college for spending money. Kerry's aunt paid for his education. When Dean was first profiled there were stories of one of his ancestor's being a bridemaid for one of Bush's (I think it was there grandmothers). The point made was the Park Avenue/Long Island Deans were at least as blue blood as Bush's.

His actions in the Senate have been to go after corruption (which often equates to the Bush family).
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. The chairman of the DNC can't be dangerous enough to warrant
getting "Wellstoned". Besides, they figure they can wreck him through the media as they did during the campaign.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. They're not going to be able to "wreck" him in the same way, though.
That old "he's nuts" gig has run out of gas.

What he really needs to be careful about is accounting. He needs to make sure there's no funny business going on with the DNC money.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I agree. But, I don't think he's in danger of being assassinated.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Probably not. Just saying it popped into my head.
Democratic leaders have a way of dying at inopportune and surprising times when they're rocking the boat.
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ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #20
36. That is chillingly true.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. You're joking - right?
Howard is the one person saurove is would love 2 destroy. Dean is the one yelling the emporer has no clothes
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. The thought did occur to me. nt
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. The media WILL Swiftboat Dean- the question is whether he can handle it...
...I'm hoping he that he can.
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borg5575 Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Who are you suggesting "terminated" JFK?
I haven't ever heard speculation that the Republicans were the ones who were behind the JFK assassination if that's what you were suggesting. To me it's more plausible that fellow Democrat LBJ was behind it. So I don't get the connection between the JFK assassination and what is going on now.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. The Industrial Military Complex, Cuban Nationals and the CIA...
...are not necessarily Liberal or heavily Democratic organizations last time I checked.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Do you know who has been behind every GOP administration since WWII?
Prescott Bush introduced Ike Eisenhower to Dick Nixon. And the Bush Criminal Empire has been behind every Republican administration since. That's a fact that nobody can dispute.

The BCE was also behind the CIA from day one. Harry Truman rightly referred to it as a "tool of Wall Street bankers" and that's exactly what it was. More specifically, existed to feed what Eisenhower correctly labeled the "Military Industrial Complex", and continues to do so to this day. Exaggerating threats to this country, and creating new ones when the old ones cease to exist, so the weapons will keep flowing.

George Bush Sr was involved in the CIA from the beginning. He established black ops funding for the agency through the importation of drugs into the US, using his own offshore oil facilities in the Gulf of Mexico. Poppy was the agent in charge of the failed Bay of Pigs coup attempt in Cuba, though he denies it. Evidence can be found in the names of the boats used in the operation. Three of them were named the "Houston", the "Zapata", and the "Barbara". Zapata Oil was Poppy's company. I think you can figure out the other two.

Several of the Cubans involved in Bay of Pigs were seen in Dallas on 11-22-63. One of them opened an umbrella as JFK's motorcade passed by.

It wasn't raining. Immediately after, the bullets started flying. Suppose someone might have been signaling the shooter(s)?

BTW, there were two CIA agents arrested by Dallas police, then mysteriously released a little later. Their names were E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis. Hunt would later work for BCE President Richard Nixon, who was also in Dallas that day, as I mentioned in a previous post. Hunt and Sturgis' location at the time of the murder?

The infamous "grassy knoll". Or better stated, in a location much more likely to cause the fatal wound - from the front and out through the top of Kennedy's skull - than the "official assassin" (patsy) Oswald who was allegedly shooting from a 4th floor window behind the President's limo.

So, given the fact that the Bush Criminal Empire has been THE power behind every Republican executive branch since WWII, then it is quite accurate to say "the Republicans did it". Not all Republicans, but the ones running the show. Others were certainly complicit in the cover up though, such as Arlen Specter, who came up with the Magic Bullshit theory (and no, that wasn't a typo)
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borg5575 Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. All they accomplished was an LBJ landsldie in 1964.
I don't see how the Bush cartel could have benefited from that. Johnson had the momentum to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964 plus he pushed through a lot of Great Society legislation as we know. Both of those things were opposed by Republicans. If they were behind the Kennedy assassination it doesn't make much sense to me. What did they gain besides almost having the whole Republican Party destroyed in 1964?

It seems to me that LBJ had a lot more to gain from Kennedy's death than the Republicans did.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. I think they fear the passionate liberal.
The ones that were gotten to were the ones that boldly ignored their premises, distorted the Republican agenda and successfully thwarted it, who saw a moral calling to liberal thought and deed, and could make the case persuasively to a wide, mainstream audience.

Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, and Jack Kennedy were all this passionate and successful as communicators.

Imagine if they were still alive today. Do you think this Presidency would even be possible?

Not a chance.
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martymar64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
42. The Military Industrial Complex profitted
The defense contractors which supplied the Vietnam War profitted enormously from JFK's assassination. These companys are basically the private sector wing of the Republican Party. It's a win-win situation for them, regardless of the party occupying the White House.
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woodsprite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #21
41. Instead of saying "fellow democrat" LBJ - how about "fellow texan" n/t
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
30. Sheesh

Please, can I join this St. Howard of Vermont cult too?

You guys are getting as bad as the Bush worshippers. Do you keep that candle lit under His picture in the alcove all the time? Pray for his health? Send him money?

Over on the Other Side it's definitely becoming a Leader cult worthy of Stalin. People literally do mount Dubya's pic, pray for him and his policies, and all that caboodle. It's like he stepped down from the Cross.

Please don't join them. T'aint Christian, you know. The more I read here, the more I get the impression that Dean and Bush both lead Manichaean cultisms.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. I Hope You Like Your Suits Flame Retardant
Prepare for incoming attacks...

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devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
33. You have every right to be worried.
One has to always remember daddy *'s connection to the CIA. Old connections and friendships never die.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
35. Ahh, don't give those whores more power than they have.
Speculative tin foil does no one any good.

NGU.


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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
39. It's funny...he adopted Paul Wellstone's "Democratic Wing" line.
I thought maybe he was trying to stand in for him, provide that kind of a grassroots driven, passionate and informed moderate progressive viewpoint to the presidential debate in the Democratic Party that we were so unfortunately denied by that plane crash.

Chances are that Wellstone would have run last year. Even though Dean is obviously not as progressive as Wellstone was, I have to wonder if maybe Dean gave voice to many of the same kinds of issues Wellstone might have had he had the opportunity to run.

What a fantastic campaign that would have been.

One more reason to fight the good fight.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. Wellstone had a bad back.
He had ruled out running for President, ever. He would have run, again, for one more term as U.S. Senator, however.
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Red State Rebel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
43. If you peeked in there on the day of the announcement
you would see there is no danger of that. They were laughing their butts off as they see him as no threat whatsoever.

I hope we get the chance to prove them very wrong.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-14-05 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
44. He needs bodyguards for sure. That is a given. However, they
would make it look like an accident. They learned in the 60's that assassinations are almost as bad politically as living heroes.
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