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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:29 PM
Original message
How do you feel about our troops?
Some people think that because we're the democrats and against the war means we hate our troops or something. I just want to see it. How do most people on here feel about them? I don't support this war, but I don't want them to die. In fact, just about every person against the war I know talks about the idea of bringing them home "alive".
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bowens43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
1.  I want them home alive.
I support the troops but not the war and not their mission.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
29. "Their" mission
is just to make it home alive. It's the MIC/neocons' mission of which you disapprove.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. I have a world of respect and gratitude for them.
They are not in Iraq because they want to be. They are there because that is where their country has ordered them to be. They are honorably performing the duty they have been given. Whether that duty itself was honorable is not something that the troops have the legal right to question.

That said, there are a few bad apples as there are any group.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. They don't make the decisions. They have to follow the terrible decisions
this Administration makes.

Al Franken who is in Kuwait, going into Iraq, said all they have on in the camps is Faux, plus they get Rush on Armed Forces Radio, so I feel like this Administration and Military is doing everything they can to brainwash the men and women over there.
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. they made the decision to join up
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 01:46 PM by el_gato
quite a few are hot to kill impoverished brown skinned people but there
are others who were fooled by the nationalistic propaganda and thought they were doing the right thing only later to realize they've been had

my point is you can't comdemn or praise them categorically since every member of the military has a unique story.

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Feathered Fish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. I support the troops
I want them to come home, and lead long, productive lives. I do not support those who lied to put the troops in harms way.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm damn sick of all those yellow magnetic ribbons to tell
you the truth. It's mindless and I suspect most people's motivation for those is the same as wearing their religion on their sleeve, they want to pretend that they have cornered the morals market and want to lord (pun intended) it over on the rest of "pagan society". It doesn't really do a damned thing for anyone on either side in Iraq.

I have nothing personally against any of our troops, but I can't support their actions to invade a non-threatening country and kill unarmed civilians. In fact, I feel sorry for what they are doing to themselves when they do that. It doesn't matter that they were ordered to do it. That's the same excuse Hitler's troops had. - K
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Hitler's troops WERE NEVER prosecuted at Nuremburg.
Troop COMMANDERS are held accountable. Commanding CIVILIANS are held accountable.

But the troops are ONLY held accountable for their individual behaviors; if a soldier rapes someone, at war or not, he's a criminal and is to be prosecuted.

But soldiers who are ordered into Poland were NEVER deemed war criminals; they're NOT war criminals per the GC and NOT per the Articles of War.

So actually NO, Hitler's troops DIDN'T use that excuse; they were never on trial.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
48. I didn't say anything about war criminals. Re-read my post.
If your standards are only those that are written down, then you have my sympathy. I don't think our troops are stupid and they weren't drafted (well, OK, some were for sure!). They know what they are doing, or SHOULD know, regardless of what the GC says. I don't need to look up chapter and verse in some legal document to know the difference between right and wrong (and I do recognize there are no absolutes). - K
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
36.  I agree with you about the Yellow and Red White and Blue Ribbons
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Ms_Mary Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
37. My yellow ribbon is for my friends in Iraq who I want to see home alive.
It has NOTHING to do with supporting the war or this administration.
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #37
51. I guess I should have offered more of an explination
Some organizations have used the Yellow ribbons for fundraisers...and the funds did not go to the troops....Companies making the ribbons are doing it for profit....and it is a proven fact they can ruin paint jobs...I support the troops...by doing everything I can to help bring them home. And I support as much as I can a family member who lost her son in Iraq..
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Koyaanisqatsi Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
58. Sick of the ribbon magnets too...
I support the troops, not this war. But I too am sick of the yellow ribbon magnets that say "Support our Troops" or the red white and blue ribbon magnets that say "God Bless America". They make me so ill, I created my own bumper stickers.

"Support the Troops
STOP VOTING REPUBLICAN"

AND

"AMERICA, BLESS GOD (with peace sign)"

plus

"Love, Peace, Tolerance...
Support REAL Christian Values.
STOP VOTING REPUBLICAN!"

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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #58
75. Excellent!! I like those a lot! - K
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Koyaanisqatsi Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #75
91. There is a create-your-own bumper sticker web site...
I created each of those bumper stickers on the following web site:

http://www.makestickers.com/ (I am not affiliated with this web site in any way, just passing on the information in case you ever want to create your own sticker).

It's real easy. I have never been a bumper-sticker type person until this year. Now, I guess I just want to get all up in THEIR faces for a change. heh :)
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #91
95. Also very cool site! Thanks!
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bajamary Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
72. Me too. So I created my own ribbon
Yes, I've had my fill of the yellow ribbons, so I created my own.




Mary

www.4-my-country.com
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #72
76. Cool!!
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Koyaanisqatsi Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #72
90. Very nice!
I have bookmarked your web site and sent it to some friends. Thanks! So glad I stumbled across this. :)

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Lizzie Borden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
73. Ditto. I think a lot of the yellow ribbon crap is just mindless.
My way of supporting them would be to get them the hell out of there.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
77. At a red light the other day,
I pulled up next to a car that was plastered with Bush stickers and those ribbons.

I asked out the window: "So, really, what does buying that ribbon actually do to help the troops? You should have offered to pay more taxes to get those boys some armour or sent the money directly to a slain soldier's family instead of wasting it on that."

They were too stunned to do much more than flip me off.

:P
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sundancekid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #77
87. another sign of a true patriotic repuke (sarcasm off now)
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
86. None of the money from those yellow ribbons actually supports the troops
Or at least that's what I'm told. Isn't that supposed to be the whole point behind them? Kinda like the yellow Livestrong bracelets.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. I pity them. There are some bad apples
but I think that's a given in any group of people. Many, I think, are poor kids, many of whom are being brainwashed into a "vote Republican or die" mindset. This war is screwing with their minds. It's a way to take advantage of poor and/or minority young people who just wanted to go to college. BushCo doesn't give a flying fuck about any one of those men and women, or else they would have done everything possible to avoid war.
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fnottr Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
7. You have to support the troops
We have to have a military, it's just a fact of life. As such, soldiers perform a vital role in society. As much as I hate the idea of war, since we are such a visible nation in the world, we have to have means to defend ourselves.

That said, I believe one of the most fundamental things the government can do to support our troops is to not send them on frivolous and immoral wars. And furthermore, when it does deploy the troops, to make damn sure they are given all the tools they need to get the job done quickly, and with as few casualties as possible. Both of these things this administration his utterly failed at doing.

I like this quote from the current "The Onion"

"I'm so confused. In times of war, should I support the troops or the president?"
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el_gato Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. Costa Rica has no military
Why haven't they deen invaded and destroyed? Perhaps it is because
your thesis is bogus.
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fnottr Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. perhaps because Costa Rica isn't a major international player? n/t
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BBG Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #46
81. Player?
How is it play to take advantage of those less fortunate? We are a player because we beat the shit out of those we want to take advantage of. This is so wrong.

Our need for a grossly overbuilt military is justified by the arrogant and selfish manner we project ourselves onto the world stage which is justified by the grossly overbuilt military we maintain.

We are way overdue for recognizing that this military we "support" is used to kill and maim and in no way protects us. It only serves to kill and maim others. And ourselves when we vounteer to participate in the charade.

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fnottr Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #81
96. Ok, player was a poor choice of words
But comparing the US to Costa Rica seems a bit naive to me. Costa Rica is a small nation of about 4 million that isn't really that involved in international politics. The US is, obviously, not in the same position. While I think the military is much larger than it needs to be, and is doing many things it oughtn't be doing, the fact is, some sort of military must exist.

For the most part it isn't the soldiers who wanted to attack Iraq, and most of those who were for it probably bought into the propaganda, and thought they were doing a vital service to the country. While I disagree with how the military is being used, and what they are doing, I recognize it's necessity. This is what I mean when I say I support the troops.
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American Tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #33
94. Perhaps for the same reason that Japan is rather unlikely to be invaded
Costa Rica, for better or for worse, is probably at least implicitly protected from foreign assault by the massive military power looming perilously close to them. Or perhaps they just aren't deemed worthwhile exploits. There are hundreds of possible reasons.

I am deeply opposed to the excesses of the military-industrial complex, and if I were in power I would cut millions in undue spending from the defense budget. But if you think that the industrialized world would have been better off in the past century without military, that the Soviet Union and other regimes were not at least somewhat mutually deterred from further brutality and conquest by that implied threat, you have an... interesting view of history.

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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bring them home--alive
I think most of our troops are fine people and probably more confused about why they are in Iraq than anybody. Now the few troops who get excited about killing people (such as the jerk in Farenheit 9/11) putting on his CD and dropping bombs--I have a problem with. But I think he is the exception and not the rule.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
67. Jerk in F 9-11
The film sure makes him look like a complete asshole, sure enough, but shit, it's hard not to be desensitized to your own destructive capabilities.

That guy's probably a decent enough guy in "real life," but he's in a situation where it's a struggle to stay sane and retain your humanity. Look at those kids who were involved/responsible for the Abu Ghraib abuse. They sure looked like about the biggest assholes on the planet, but the Stanford Prison Experiment demostrated that they could be anyone, even you or me.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. I love mine.
My hubby is a trooper and I love him to pieces.

But I DON'T WANT HIM IN pieces ta very much bush you fcking war criminal lying bastard.

The soldiers who are committing individual crimes should be held accountable, soldiers or not. If a soldier rapes or steals or tortures or murders, that's a crime. They should be held accountable as individual soldiers, and the GCs and Articles of War make that clear.

The soldiers who are obeying legal orders and defending themselves against attackers and who are NOT committing individual crimes are NOT war criminals, even though the invasion itself is illegal, and the GCs and Articles of War make that clear.

Not all soldiers are bad. Not all soldiers are good. They are individuals and should be held accountable based on their individual behaviour.

Or that's my opinion (and that of the GCs and the Articles of War.)

BRING EM HOME. NOW.







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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm sure there are many excellent individuals...
under the heading of 'our troops'... and some blood-thirsty ass-hats too! I imagine I would be cool with many of them and despise others.

Hard to generalize my feelings for people I don't personally know. Something I try to avoid.

Let's just say, just because they are soldiers in the U.S. military doesn't mean I like or dislike them. I want to bring them home alive. I feel that they have all been placed in harm's way to further the PNAC agenda (not to combat terrorism, liberate Iraq, etc...)

I refuse to slap one of those silly-assed ribbon magnets on my van... I have a peace sign and a yin-yang instead.
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T Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. Though it is a minority opinion,
I do not unconditionally "support the troops."

I do feel sorry for them, being put in an unfortunate position of having to choose between "following orders" and "doing the right thing." But haven't we heard that excuse before, say about 60 years back?

And while there would be consequences for making the more courageous decision to resist what may be "legal" but definitely immoral orders, I cannot give them a pass.

Flame away.
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yellowdogintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. bumper sticker: I support the troops and I vote Democratic
says it all

My heart breaks for the troops. Like most everyone I have friends with children over there in that mess, and all I want is for everyone's kids to come home safe.

I have not felt this sad about anything our government has done since Vietnam (I was in college and my first job during VN)

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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. I have a T-shirt that says "I support the troops It's bush I can't stand"
I gets lots of compliments on it .
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ernstbass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's hard to support the troops
when I read that 70% of them support Chimpie
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. You're reading rightwingnut trash
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 12:56 PM by LynnTheDem
It's NEVER been 70% support for ANY Party; on average, officers are majority republican...and officers represent less than 15% of the entire US military.


The enlisted troops average out to 1/3 republican, 1/3 Dem, and 1/3 Indy.

And there's a very good reason why bushCartel aren't trumpeting the results of the military votes this year...

Every person in my husband's entire unit voted for Kerry...except 3; 2 didn't vote at all and 1 voted for bush.
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southpaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Enlisted troops are typically young and apolitical...
Then the military feeds them daily doses of FOX news and Rush Limbaugh. Their opinions form as a part of an indoctrination proceedure that is admittedly a type of brain washing...

I, personally, find it difficult to believe that 30% are anything other than repukes.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I live on the largest free military base in the free world
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 01:06 PM by LynnTheDem
Most the enlisteds aren't anywhere near as gullable as some think;

A Military Times survey last December of 933 subscribers, about 30 percent of whom had deployed for the Iraq war, found that 56 percent considered themselves Republican - about the same percentage who approved of Bush's handling of Iraq. Half of those responding were officers, who as a group tend to be more conservative than their enlisted counterparts.

Among officers, who represent roughly 15 percent of today's 1.4 million active duty military personnel, there are about eight Republicans for every Democrat, according to a 1999 survey by Duke University political scientist Peter Feaver.

Enlisted personnel, however - a disproportionate number of whom are minorities, a population that tends to lean Democratic - are more evenly split. Professor Feaver estimates that about one third of enlisted troops are Republicans, one third Democrats, and the rest independents, with the latter group growing.

http://globalsecurity.com/us_politics/a_strident/a_strident.htm

Even with HALF the respondents being officers, who are overwhelmingly republican, the total still came to ONLY 56% republican.

So if EVERY officer were republican, then ONLY 6% enlisted were republican.

But officers are actually ONLY 15% of the entire military.

That says very plainly, that the US military most certainly is NOT a republican majority.

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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #24
60. I think some of them in Iraq played too many violent videogames as kids
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #60
78. Like any large group, some of them are just
plain sick sociopaths. Most are good chaps though.

Of course a whole lot of the good ones, after what they've seen & had to do in Iraq, aren't the people they were before they left, and now some aren't what you'd want on the loose back here. :(
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
79. Good work.
I don't believe that Bush or the Republican Party has ownership over the troops.
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. Well....
I think that more of them would support the Democratic party if they just knew that Democrats didn't hold grudges against them. There's a dumb rumor going around saying that Dems and people against the war have something personal against them. It's beens supported by a few idiots truly being hostile to them, but I don't think it's fair to let a few people speak for all of us.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. For the mother that Thanked me through tears
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 12:50 PM by proud patriot
For the Gulf War vet that lives down the street who
Thanked me .

For the Navy vet in the safeway parking lot who thanked
me and who went on a rant about Hitler Musillini and Bush.
This guy was pissed off .

For the Father of an active Marine who confesed to
me "My son has been brainwashed he's not the same
and won't allow us to say anything against bush"

For my Greenwaste pick-up guy who will be in Iraq
in January who thanked me.

For Vets I've Marched with at anti-invasion rallies
especially that WWII vet in his wool uniform who used
his walker to march with us that day .

For Lila Lipscomb and the memory of her son and every
soldier put in harms way to only come home broken or
dead .

For OpTruth.org

For the National Guardsmen who say "one weekend a month
my ass"

For the soldier who asked for rummy's resignation on
the nightly news .

For the soldiers who refused orders to deliver
the unsafe Helicopter fuel . For all the soldiers
who died because of unsafe contaminated Helicopter
fuel .

For the soldier who turned in the evidence of
the torture at Abu Garaib.

For the soldiers whose families cannot afford to
purchase equipment to keep there loved ones safe.

For the Families of the 5 soldiers who have died
in cities close to me .

For all the Children who will someday join or
be drafted into our military .

For all the soldiers who didn't vote for bush
and know it's all a lie and yet serve with Honor
because they swore an Oath .

All these people need us , and they can count on me
to Shout out very Loudly ....I support Our Troops .

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
50. Whew!
Choking back tears

That was pretty profound. Thanks.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Your welcome
having all my Bumper stickers and Yard Signs
may get me yelled at by some , but to others
it offers courage and Hope . I do live in a county
that increased it Dem support from 59% to 62.4%
I hope in some little way I helped .

I really believe we each can makes a difference

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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
61. Thank you for that. Very well said.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think of them as victims
of Bush and all his evil thieves. These were the kids who signed up with the Guard or the military after 9-11 because they wanted to protect this country. They're being convinced this is the best way to do it. They are being lied to. I don't blame the victims.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
49. There are lots of other reasons for joining up than wanting
to protect your country and the recruiters know them all. - K
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MNBiker Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't understand the question...Try again Inspector Kramer...
Examples

Do you think highly of America's military?
Do you want the troops to be successful on it's current mission?
Do you oppose any military use of force?

Try again with a better question....
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Not_Giving_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
18. I support the troops, and want them home!
My brother is currently deployed on that side of the world, and I would like it much better if he was home.

Yes, there are bad apples, but we have bad apples in everyday society, so we really shouldn't be suprised.

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demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe ask Rumsfeld that question. n/t
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. Since Rumsfeld isn't out there....
there's no reason for him to support the troops, is there? Screw him.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Depends on the troop
I support the John Kerrys over there, but not the Steve Gardners.

If they voted for BushCo and are now upset that they're over there without enough equipment on an illegally extended tour, I don't have a lot of sympathy. If they are over there boasting about shooting "ragheads," I have no sympathy whatsoever - if they are thinking and acting like thugs, they're nothing more than a common criminal to me.

The rest of them I support fully.

I'm a vet, btw.
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Jackie97 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
35. Question.
Do you ever feel torn between the left (who typically doesn't support the war) and the far right (who claims that anybody who doesn't support the war is a traitor)?

I guess I'm asking if it ever gets complicated for you. It's not complicated for me because I'm not a vet. I was just wondering how vets on DU do feel about things.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
63. Yes, it's complicated
It's a moral quagmire, I oppose the war, yet I'd rather have it fought by people that I trust to value human life and diplomacy.

I'm having the same issue right now with the selective service board application that's sitting on my kitchen counter right now. I don't want to be the person that sends a person to an unjust war, but I'd rather it were me than someone else.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. sorry and sad
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Stew225 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
26. Good question. I don't have a yellow magnet on my car.
Do I support the troops? For what? Occupying a country and carrying out an agenda that borders on the breaking of the Geneva Convention. I don't support that.
Indiscriminately shooting civilians; I don't support that.

Being a brainwashed bunch of mostly lower middle class to lower Southern people who are not in the upper echelon of the critical thinking skills area makes it hard to support them, since in doing so, I'm supporting their superiors who, as we known, are greedly non-compassionate idiots.
I support our troops doing their best to get the hell out of Iraq and muscle up enough brainpower to think for themselves. That, by the way, is not easy to do considering the Army's brainpower training regimens.

So, yeah, I support the troops. I don't support what many of them are doing.
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
71. The troops....
"Being a brainwashed bunch of mostly lower middle class to lower Southern people who are not in the upper echelon of the critical thinking skills area makes it hard to support them..."

I'm not so sure about that. Most of the young people I know who joined the military did so because they were in a situation with no job skills, no money, and no prospects, and they joined up to get money for college and get the hell out of whatever town they grew up in. I don't think most of them are brainwashed either. I'd reckon that if you looked at the political beliefs of their families, most of their families are republican too. Most people I know did their time quietly, and still kept their basic cynical personalities.

The Marines are different. They're brainwashed, and they join the military not for college money, but to learn to kill people and/or be a badass. They signed up for shit like this, but it still doesn't mean they deserve to be killed in an unjust war.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
28. "Against the troops, but for the War"
Bill Hicks, RIP
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suegeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
30. I pity the men and women who signed up
I pity the men and women who signed up due to the "allowed to happen" (at best) attacks on our country.

I am ashamed of the men and women who abuse innocent people (in prisons, and by dropping bombs on them, etc.)
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
38. I feel
that that their mission is foolish and disasterous and they shouldn't be over there.

I'm tired of people dying for Bush's lies, whether it be Iraqi civilians or US troops or other conractors from other nations.

Enough is enough. Get 'em outta there!
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recovering democrat Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. Support, seriously.
There are a whole lot of us friends, lovers, family members who care about these soldiers individually and for us "support the troops" is not a silly jingle or a yellow ribbon magnet on a car. My son is one of those troops. I don't just support him; I love him. I want him home ALIVE.

I can understand anger and opposition for the war, and even for the actions they sometimes must take in war. I must support the court martial and criminal punishment of those who abuse and kill under the guise of their military service. But we should not get these issues all mixed up with the people.

Ask how I feel about Democrats? Some I love, some I can't stand, but I care about or criticize the person, not the Democratic party on their behalf. Same with most everything else.

The one thing I strongly believe is that the Democratic Party can and should define itself as it relates to this issue, instead of allowing the Republicans to condemn US while they ONLY "support the troops" by buying yellow ribbon magnets. Democrats even manage to serve in the U. S. Military instead of paying silly lip service to it!
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. I feel a duty to stand up for them.. they cant, look at dessertion rate..
they know this is wrong, its up to us to be soldier of democracy and MARCH ON DC on the 6th of January.
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KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
41. Guarded and mixed
I think most didn't sign up for what they're actually getting and I strongly support those who are just trying to do their best for their country. But I feel the ones who are abusing detainees, cutting the heads off pets, raping detainees, holding mock executions of kids, they can go to hell where they belong. Those things are evil and I don't see how that kind of evil can ever be excised from their minds.
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nickshepDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
42. SUPPORT, SUPPORT, SUPPORT, SUPPORT.
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 03:25 PM by nickshepDEM
I support each and every one of them. Take a poll of how many of them WANT to be in Iraq. I bet it comes back 10% "do", 90% "don't". They all have a common mission, Get Home Alive. I hold the Bush administration soley responsible for EVERY life lost in Iraq. I do not hold one single soldier responsible for a single death in Iraq, period. God love em' and I hope they come home soon.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
43. We must distinguish several things...
most imporatantly, between the troops and their commanders. We should blame the commanders (in chief) not the average soldier, who has no choice in the matter.

Secondly, yes we have some rotten apples, but I believe they are in the minority, and the worst ones should be severly punished via the military court martial, not just for their crimes but for ruining the name of the good ones.
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MsConduct Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
44. Feel sorry for them, love them. Hate the war. n/t
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Bush_Eats_Beef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
45. There is something about a man or woman willing to die for their country..
...that MUST be respected.

It's the same thing that makes a person want to be a cop (and not a corrupt SCUMBAG POS like Kerik).

It's the same thing that makes a person want to be a doctor, a nurse, a teacher, a firefighter...

They care about making their world a better place, and they often place the needs of others above their own.

Bush and his entire worthless chickenhawk administration are the villains here. The soldiers deserve our respect, and YES...BRING THEM HOME.

:toast:

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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
47. "Troops" has lost all its meaning
Thanks to the neocons/freepers/hate radio mongers -- ultimately they have tied, within some people's minds, a false binary to the word -- meaning, you either support the Bush administration and support the troops, or you don't support Bush and, therefore, you don't support the troops.

I prefer to think of the soldier. Who knows where he or she comes from. What his or her story is. It could be a wayward kid, who found discipline in the Army -- or not -- and he's an asshole to his fellow soldiers and enjoys imperial domination. It could be the man or woman who gives commands he or she disagrees with, or carries out missions that betray his or her own moral convictions. It could be a tormented soldier who hasn't heard from his girlfriend, or has just had a baby, or just had her mother die while she's in Iraq. It could be a soldier lying in a hospital bed, with no arms, barely conscious, destined to elicit hope, for a few brief moments, before he or she dies. It could be a middle class kid who signed up so he could get a degree in Social Services or for God's sake Recreation and he doesn't know why he had to be there, but he went.

Some of these soldiers know nothing. They don't know why they're there -- they don't have backgrounds in history or foreign policy, but they go because of duty, or because of a death wish, or because they had no where to go. Some of them are horrible people, some of them are weak, some of them will get caught up in atrocity, some will lead, some will enjoy it -- some will wake up sweating, someday -- saying "God, I'm sorry." Some will come home and nothing will have happened -- I'm back, I've soldiered, I'm sand. I did what I had to do -- and will watch football and will wave the flag, and will die fifty years from now, hating the neocons who put him there -- or she will die loving the cause still, because superiority is survival. Acquisition of resources, of position is a shingled roof, shiny slide, and an artificial heart, a trip to the moon. To the Victor goes the flatscreen, the Clapper.

Some are sorry they're there now. Some think they're doing good. Some ARE doing good. Some are scared. Some are sunburned. Some will come home and preach the glory of war to here CUTE and UNASSUMING ANTI-WAR neighbor who is simply trying to smoke a cigarette and admire her new Pacific Northwest Native American Windsock with the visage of a Salmon on it. Some will swim upstream, be sorry. Some are horrible fishes, who had no other water to go to, no land, just weeds, some will wave the duty, wake up a shingled roof. To the few brief moments goes the "God, I'm sorry." And it is muddy neocon, who is a broken limb, a broken moon, a dead moral conviction, a wayward slide -- a baby, barely conscious or a death wish.

I don't blanketly support anything -- except for various soft cheeses, experimental cinema and my own antibodies -- but I am thinking about the soldiers, all the time. What got them there, who put them there, what I can do to respect their memory. How I can fit respect for them into me, when I don't have respect for their mission. How I can honor their memory, when I feel that they are at the whim of men who have no honor. How I can forgive them. How I can thank them, for whatever it is that I should be thankful to them for. Which I'm still not sure that I know. Thank you for going. Thank you for occupying your role. You served it well. You did better than I would have.

That's all there is.
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jeffvail Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
53. "Support" doesn't go very far
Support comes at what cost? Speaking from personal experience, knowing that a portion of the people back home "supported" me didn't do me a damn bit of good. Protesting against the war, against the rash expenditure of military lives, now that would have meant something: at least it was worth your time, and it might make a difference. But those yellow stickers... guess what, we couldn't see them from the Middle East. If they make their owners feel better about themselves, then great, but don't get the impression that they're doing anything for me.

Are "the troops" important enough for you to enlist in the military?
Are "the troops" important enough for you to spend money to buy one body armor?
Are "the troops" important enough for you to make that a litmus test for voting (and for the democrats, I'm talking about Dean or Kucinich over Kerry)??
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
54. I feel like our troops have been used in an extraordinarily, shameful way.
I personally know young men and women who had signed up for the military after 9/11 because they felt they wanted to go to Afghanistan and find and kill Osama Bin Laden, who attacked us. Some troops of course did go to Afghanistan but just as many were manipulated into thinking there was a connection between what happened in our country on 9/11 and Sadam Hussein, and were sent to Iraq instead. We all know how that's going. The troops were lied to, and are still being lied to about the purpose of their mission there. They will come back broken physically, mentally, and spiritually, if they are lucky enough to come back at all, and they will be haunted forever by the things this criminal President has asked them to do in our name. It is heartbreaking to see how the troops have been used and abused by this administration. I want them home now. This war is a disgrace, and these poor guys have been asked to something they never should have been asked to do. When the truth finally comes out about this war, and I believe it will, there will be hell to pay. Instant Karma mr.*.

Hate the war, not the warrior. They were lied to just as we all were.
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leans2left Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
55. The greatest fighting force on the face of the earth!!!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. ..are getting their asses kicked.
Again.
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
56. Like Ted Bundy's parents
felt about Ted.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
57. Majority volunteer to kill people
Others like doctors, lawyers, nurses those types of career fields have better motivations. Bring 'em ALL home! Even the gung ho killerjarhead types. America better with all the crazies! Nuts sluts and whores killers criminals they all have a place in America!
America the land of the free and home of the brave... are we either?
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Sterling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
59. If they signed up pre Iraq then I feel very sorry for them
If they joined up since I feel less sorry for them but realize some of them may not be very smart and have possibly been brainwashed by MCPropaganda all their lives.

It's getting harder to excuse people who are willing to take part in W's evil crusade.
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
62. My nephew is being sent BACK to Iraq
in January ... OF COURSE I SUPPORT THE TROOPS!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
64. Cannon fodder for the capitalists.
Killing for the bottom line of the corporations.
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MrSlayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
66. I feel bad for them for being so misused.
Our military provides a great service for us in most circumstances, this is not one of them. They are being misused and killed for lies and greed and it is disgusting. I want them brought home now.
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seg4527 Donating Member (851 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
68. like all left-wing communist al-qaeda loving democrats, i hate them
</sarcasm>
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
69. I feel terrible for them
They don't even know why they're there anymore, it's been so long. The causes and the rationales for this stupid war change so often that I really, genuinely feel bad for the troops, and I hope they can come home soon.
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Bouncy Ball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
70. I speak out against this war BECAUSE I support the troops.
Edited on Thu Dec-16-04 09:45 PM by Bouncy Ball
To NOT watchdog the government, to NOT eye everything the government wants to do with the troops, to shut up when the government wants to use the military in an immoral and/or improper manner, is NOT supporting the troops.

They don't have the voice civilians have. For the most part, they have to follow orders. They can't march in the streets, scream and yell, sign protests, etc. They are trained to follow orders. They DEPEND UPON CIVILIANS TO WATCH *THEIR* BACKS, to make sure the government does not use them in immoral ways.

Imagine a country filled with freepers who just blindly agree with and trust in everything elected officials do with the military. That's just horrific. Elected officials do NOT always make the right decisions when it comes to the military that's a fact. And we HAVE to watch out for them. We HAVE to be their voice.

Signed, the wife of a vet

To add: watching how the government uses the military is not something you only do when YOUR party is in power, but all the time. That's another big difference between me and the freepers, I would guess.

Oh and my brother in law is there now. He voted for Kerry and does not agree with this war.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
74. I deeply care about our service people....I HATE the pentegon and
the brass that rank above the "boots". They are the ones who plan wars, for good or for bad, while holding hands with their bosses: The prez. all from the comfort of their nice cushy offices.

Our system of military service is so fucked up. If a man/woman says NO I don't want to serve in "this" war (Iraq for example), they are threatened with the ruination of their entire lives.

They take the young and naive, promise them all kinds of shit, indoctrinate them with gung ho bullcrap. I understand they must be trained to "obey" and follow orders etc..but some of the stuff they brainwash them with is over the top and unnecessary: "God and Country", blood, gore, guts, and veins in my teeth, "Blowing stuff up is a good thing...and it's fun" :puke:

There is NOTHING rational nor humbling in the teachings of war and there damn well should be. They should be taught that they are about to go and KILL other HUMAN BEINGS and to be circumspect about that..be extremely mindful of these things and do all they can to avoid unnecessary killing.

There's no dishonor in serving one's country in the military if the cause is just....the dishonor comes via the Brass, with their ill fated "plans", and the "teachings of war" the way it is presently.

We know there are some rank and file military people who "like" the action, who believe America is the "Boss", who have effectively demonized their so-called enemy to make it easier to KILL and torture them; those who will follow blindly whatever is ordered.

We also know there are those persons who somehow retain their own humanity with sensibilities intact. These sorts HATE when they are sent on a fools errand and truely regret any mistakes they make; who probably want to go home and forget the whole damn thing; who might even wonder how in the hell they got themselves into their predicament and just want to get out/come home. <-------these are the one's I support and care for and worry about.

I also care deeply for those that dissent/bail out/mutany, as their lives will be hell (unjustly so) for some time to come.

Likewise, I respect the doctors and non-combat service people who are there to provide help and support to anyone that needs it.

In general, I care about ALL of their lives, as well as innocent civilians in combat zones. But when we go into ILLEGAL or ill planned, or unnecessary wars, I separate the "Wheat from the Chaff" in doling out my "support".

Finally, my "support" for the troops is better served in HOW WE TREAT THEM WHEN THEY COME HOME.

Going back to WWII, through Korea, Viet Nam, Persian Gulf/desert storm...several of my family members served. We are SICK of WAR. With Bush and the possibility of spreading wars across the globe, I worry now about my grandson. ENOUGH ALREADY!
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utahgirl Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-16-04 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
80. Good heavens!
My ex served in Vietnam and my oldest brother died in a training accident before he ever got there. One brother has a Commendation Award and retired out of the service. One sister served with distinction. If you go back in our family history, there are dozens of soldiers all the way back to 1653.

If there's anything I want, it's to support the soldiers who are on the line. I think the best way to support them is to get them out of an illegal, unwinnable war and bring them home alive.

utahgirl
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bobedwards Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
82. I...
admire them greatly and have deep respect for their courage and commitment to our nation.
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
83. I don't support the troops -their presence in Iraq makes us all less safe
Edited on Fri Dec-17-04 12:54 AM by BlueManDude
sorry.
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #83
88. well, they didn't decide to send themselves there
I think you are thinking of BUSH.

duh
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. I mean no disrespect to your husband
and I want him to come home physically and mentally healthy.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
84. The ones who get off on killing I hate, the ones that were railroaded into
being there and are being back door drafted I feel bad for and want them to come home safe.
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laheina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
85. I love the troops!
What's more, I send them stuff. I send them letters. I try to be active in getting them home. So do many of the Dems that I know.

I bet that those stupid ribbon people don't.
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Qanisqineq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
89. I support my husband and other troops
Sure, there are bad apples I don't support but there are bad apples in any group of people.

I support the troops and want them home alive. It isn't their fault they were sent to Iraq.
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
92. We need to bring them home from Iraq.
As a former soldier I do have empathy for the hardships our troops face. I am mad as hell that Bush sent them to fight an unecessary and immoral war, without any real planning, and without the proper equipment.
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manic expression Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
97. I cannot support the troops
on this mission. I sympathize with their position, and I wish them the best. I cannot, however, support murder. Again, this is not exactly personal against them, but it is my objection to the mission they are carrying out.
Just my opinion.
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latteromden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
98. I oppose the war, support the troops, and I think that serving your
country in such a way is a sacrifice that only a few are willing to make. Unfortunately, those that make that sacrifice are being taken advantage of by the administration, and it's despicable.

I couldn't imagine spending Christmas away from my family. You can be sure that my money will go to helping buy the military more supplies, not those ridiculous yellow ribbons that aren't even made in the US and contribute nothing to the troops.
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LevelB Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
99. As a veteran
I support our troops. But they are being asked to accomplish the impossible, and the strain is showing. The shockingly poor political leadership and subsequent lack of planning for what they (we) are now experiencing is tearing them apart. The fallout from this will be measured in years.

B.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
100. I love our troops ...
well: most of them that are normally nice people ....

I cannot blame anyone but the government for what is happening .... The soldiers do not establish national policy ....

Our soldiers: Our sons, daughters, uncles, aunts, sisters, brothers, nephews, nieces, mums and daddas .... I love them ....

Bring them home, and put Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz into a carnival midway ....
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kamqute Donating Member (298 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
101. I--guess what--SUPPORT THE TROOPS duh!
I not only 'support' the troops, whatever that means, but I 'support' everyone in the world. By 'support,' I mean I wish these people well, I feel sympathy for their suffering, and I try to engage their ways of thinking and understand their experiences; plus I try to enact those views in useful activity in the world. In addition to this, I support almost all volunteer warrior because most of them join such outfits as a way of standing in the riskiest possible place to defend what is valuable to them, thus relieving the responsibilities of others. I think, however, that this does not mean that in our interactions with troops that we must be entirely glowing. Many have been deceived or brainwashed by the guiding institutions of the western world, and the U.S. in particular, or by some other aspect of their lives, and people need to pushed to look deeper within themselves, very often, I think, members of the armed forces in particular. Status as a 'troop' should not be an exemption from probing questions. The stress to which they are subjected may be an important check on the extent of this type of dialogue at any given time, but in the long run such healing is needed.
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dobegrrrl Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
102. I support their pain
I know that many went into the military seeking an education and that was the only way they could do it. I teach government at a high minority, low income school and many of my kids have joined. I worry about them every day.

The military here (Norfolk - lots and lots of military) have now started a program for teachers to do a "mini camp" at Camp Legune. They are encouraging teacher to recruit for them. I say HELL NO. If a student were to ask for my advice about joining now, I would have to say don't it. The recruiters are always asking to come into the government classes, but I do not want them in my room. I would feel responsible if /when something happened to one of them.
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
103. I hear that same
old line of crap. If you don't support the war, you
can't support the troops. BS, plain and simple.

I didn't support the Viet Nam war either. Yet, I sent
hundreds of pounds of food, books, personal hygiene
products, etc., to a friend of mine to share with his
fellow troops. I sent items that I figured most people
would not think about. The boxes of Velveeta were an
instant hit. Jerry told me he became a very popular
guy on campus when the mail was delivered.

I would do the same for those in Iraq, but I don't know
anyone serving there, and sending packages addressed to
"Any Soldier" is not allowed.

Whether I agree or not with what the US is doing in Iraq
is irrelevant. These men and women are serving their
country, and they have my respect and gratitude. I just
wish this joke of a president hadn't put their lives in
jeopardy over a pissing contest with his daddy.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
104. I wish them safety and to come home ASAP
It's not their fault their commander in chief is an idiot. Most of them are just young kids trying to make a living or pay for college. I bet most of them don't follow politics too closely and really do feel they are "defending their country" and I respect that. I think they should be treated well, given everything they need to be as safe as possible, their families taken care of, including the reserve and guard the same as the regulars. I think they get the shaft a lot of the time regarding benefits and pay and deserve better. Look what they're paying the contractors!

But that aside, I cannot say I agree with the mission, even if it hurts someone's feelings. It was a huge mistake, it was just plain wrong and I'm not going to lie and say it wasn't no matter who calls me a traitor.
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agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-17-04 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
105. I want them home and out of harm's way, or at least to survive.
But they don't seem like American troops anymore to me. They seem to me like they're part of a Texas thugs private army. Sure you feel for them but it just isn't the same. Their death's seem even more tragic, as they're not really dying for America, just for president gas hee haw's militia.
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marieaey Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
106. Freepers on Patrol Here/Right Wing News
http://rightwingnews.com/

Scroll down to locate jibberish or what it calls writing. The best part is that it didn't even write much just a bunch of copy and paste. I can feel the unity now boy.

As far as the troops go........we still don't know who won the military vote. Have you noticed that it hasn't been anounced or in the news anywhere? We knew in 2000.
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