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October Surprise: Halloween? Twin Cities? What IS this rumor? (Vreeland)

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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:29 PM
Original message
October Surprise: Halloween? Twin Cities? What IS this rumor? (Vreeland)
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 08:33 PM by seventhson
A few minutes ago the Vreeland arrest made LBN. Since then it has been inferred that he is claiming that he is being silenced about an October Surprise plot for next weekend.

This is the very shady guy who allegedly predicted 9-11 and was apparently acknowledged as a Naval Intelligence man.

Is anyone else hearing this story?

If it is for real then it needs to be known. If not it needs to be dispelled. Either way the best thing to do is discuss it, make sure the people responsible for Vreeland (including the media) get his story and make sure he is NOT "Hatfielded".

I have already passed this story along to folks in media and government that I know just to be on the safe side. I have sent it to a lawyer I know who has intelligence clearances and contacts as well as to those connected to a large progressive media company.

What else should WE do, if anything???

(PS - If this were for real and I remained silent I would never forgive myself. I figure if the LEFT exposes and stops this thing it will help Kerry, whether it is a vile rumor, disinformation or Rovian "electoral bombing" like the Reichstag.)

All I know is what I have seen HERE at DU -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

but it sounds legit enough that it should be passed along to law enforcement, homeland security, AND the media etc. If Vreeland KNOWS something we have to protect him. If he is a lying sack of sh*t then we need to know. If he is just a pawn we need to know what he knows (or at least law enforecement does) before he gets Oswalded.

There is safety in numbers. The more we all know the better off we all are.

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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. What are you talking about.............make it fast, I'm ready for bed
Really who is Veeland or whatever and what is he suppose to know and why the hell would anyone want to do something to Minneapolis????????
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. All you need to know is to start here:
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JRicks_GA Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Delmart Vreeland
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
49. Hi JRicks_GA!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Delmart Vreeland - claims to be ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence)set up
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3843181/detail.html

Man Who Says He Predicted Sept. 11 Attacks Arrested


A Michigan native who claims to have predicted the events of Sept. 11, 2001, was arrested by authorities in Iowa on Wednesday. Delmart Vreeland, 38, of Rochester Hills, was wanted by eight Michigan jurisdictions, including Oakland County, for crimes like fraud and burglary, according to a report in The Daily Oakland Press.



Vreeland was captured by sheriff's deputies in Iowa's Franklin County after he stopped to refuel at a gas station.Vreeland used a credit card at the station that had an alert placed on it by authorities in Colorado -- where he is wanted on child prostitution charges, according to the paper.

Authorities in Michigan, Colorado, Virginia, Canada and New York all want to speak with Vreeland, the paper reported. Oakland County Sheriff's Deputy Michael Bouchard told the paper that Vreeland ran an identity theft ring in the Detroit area for a few years and has felony convictions for breaking and entering and receiving stolen property.

Vreeland used to live in Rochester Hills and worked at a company that refurbished computers in Troy, the paper reported.He's reportedly considered a folk hero among conspiracy theorists who believe he is a spy for the Office of Naval Intelligence. Shortly after the terrorist attacks, Vreeland apparently claimed that while he was in prison he wrote a note that foreshadowed the events of Sept. 11, 2001, according to the paper.



Copyright 2004 by ClickOnDetroit.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm confused by the Twin Cities reference too
I can't find any mention of Mpls/St Paul in the article.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yeah me either. Be nice to know what the heck they're talking about.
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popstalin Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Here from the DU thread referenced
This man is the same man who tried to get the word
out about 9-11.
He was most recently trying to get the word out about
another attack.
He knows- he has documents.
Please do not probe me further on how I got that
information.
Twin Towers...twin ------.
Figure it out and hope he is wrong.
BHN

My interpretation:
Twin Towers, Twin Cities
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Really am not at all excited about that prediction.
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 08:55 PM by kikiek
I hope it is wrong.
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popstalin Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. It's all so very tinfoilly
I don't know much about it, I recall reading about Vreeland some time ago but had forgotten about him.

It will be interesting to see if it's true (tragic but interesting).
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I would think at this point an attack would hurt Bush..badly. But I
sure will be staying out of the city next weekend. Wonder if the Vikings are home again. They are this weekend.
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popstalin Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Are you in the Twin Cities area?
If so, be careful just in case it is true.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. 40 miles out of the city. Geez I hope that is just crap. It scares people
having those rumors going around. Vikes are at home against NY Giants. I would hunt them down myself if they hurt my Culpepper.
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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. I will be downtown Mpls. all friggin' day on the 27th
I'm not going to take this too seriously, but I'll keep an eye out if I can.

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northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. I'm inclined to be very skeptical, but...
I live in St. Paul and I spend most of my waking hours in downtown Minneapolis, so it's not crazy of me to be just a tad nervous here...
I hope this is all just a lot of tinfoil talk
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
45. Twin Spires?? They're going to hit Churchill Downs?
Perhaps I should make myself scarce on Halloween!
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. IT IS IN THE LBN THREAD WHICH I ORIGINALLY FORGOT TO LINK
BUT IT IS LINKED NOW
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
53. Some think it means Buda/Pest (nt)
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. More on Vreeland posted today online
October 22, 2004
Breaking: Delmart Vreeland Arrested
As if the portents weren't ominous enough.

We already had plenty of cause to worry about next week. Vreeland's turning up now seals the deal. I believe bad news is coming, fast.

Here's the story, as reported (and here's the story as it's not reported).


If you need a Vreeland refresher, here's a report from The Toronto Star, Dec 3rd of last year: ""Post-9/11, this doesn't seem all that weird"; a link to court documents; confirmation by Leo Wanta, longtime intelligence asset who destabilized the Soviet ruble in the '80s for the Reagan White House request, that Vreeland was an operative of the Office of Naval Intelligence; and an interview.

Head's up, and stay safe.


http://www.rigorousintuition.blogspot.com / (Today)


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DemocracyInaction Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Okay. I Read and I'll bite now. What are the evil doers going to do??
Are they going to wipe out the headquarters of the Lutheran Church 'cause that would destroy Minnesota and a good part of Iowa and Wisconsin. Whaaat???????
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. That is a lot of electoral votes isn't it? Iowa Wisconsin and Minnesota?
Heartland

Would the BFEE do a Goebbels-like "Electoral Bomb" in the heartland?

Are they that evil?

Will Vreeland give his sources???
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. can someone tell me what is going on?!
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. I found the 9/11 Vreeland story interesting but
if he really did have inside knowledge on 9/11 and he was let free or had escaped since then (he's been wanted on various charges in many states and Canada) why in the hell would he have any inside info now?

Like okay, he was on the inside then, he squealed, and here it is three years later and bingo, he's got the information again??

If the BFEE is evil enough to pull off 9/11 part two, wouldn't they be evil enough to kill this guy? And why oh why would he have any information? It doesn't make sense.

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AusTexDem Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I Agree.
just more scare tactics.
Don't fall for it.
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GimmeDANEger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. I live about 30 min away
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 09:07 PM by mynameisdane
and I most definately won't be attending a concert on Monday that I was planning on. I'm very skeptical, but I definately wouldn't be suprised with this administration
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Really? I can't imagine even them doing that. Truth would come out
I believe. It would be far too big to hide forever.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. 9/11
is hidden in plain sight.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I truly believe that time will tell. Some secrets are too big even for
that gang. I believe they are evil, but I hope to God you're wrong. Watching the Weather Underground DVD. Kind of eerie.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Especially if they get outed before hand- Remember Chechnyans in Mexico
Remember them and their black backpacks?

Remember Putin saying Bush was harboring Chechnyan terrorists who attacked that school?

Remember?

Remember?

Somebody in law enforcement needs to interview Vreeland fast.


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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. I concur
but who to trust? I sure as hell don't trust HSD...
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Yes you're right. I hope someone does. I have faith in the Mn
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 09:37 PM by kikiek
law enforcement. 9/11 probably would have been prevented if they had listened to them.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Why has Putin endorsed Bush do you think? I recall him saying that.
I think it is obvious Putin learned a lot from this admin about supressing rights. They must be working together somehow.
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popstalin Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Whatever happened to those 15 Chechyn Terrorists
Crossing the Mexican border? I heard about that a few weeks ago and nothing since. Kerry referenced it in the final debate.
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kikiek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. Interesting
Just had a blurb on about local officals learning from the best about homeland security. Showed Henn Cty sheriff. Haven't heard the story yet.
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maryallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
42. Wonder how -- if at all -- Sen. Dayton's actions --
closing his senate offices -- plays into this scenario?

Supposedly, he did this after getting security briefings in Washington. But, the implication was that an attack was imminent in DC ... maybe not ...
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
39. I live 1 mile from d/t Minneapolis, and work in d/t Saint Paul
This better be some scare-tactict-y tinfoil hat bullshit, because if it's true, and you know it, and you don't tell anybody about what could happen beforehand, you're not doing anyone any favors.
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. if this guy really knew something big
about some kind of governmental plot or coverup, or even some other nefarious "agency," wouldn't they have gone ahead and "gotten rid" of him instead of going thru the trouble of arresting him thru civil police at a gas station? lol
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. We have Cheney saying we're doomed if we elect Kerry and it looks
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 10:12 PM by higher class
better for Kerry all the time if the vote is honest.

We have Cheney and his gang hell bent on staying in power for the oil (and all the riches).

( http://www.hermes-press.com/impintro1.htm ) On DU this evening.

We have corporate media telling how the cheerleading, resolute, and determined Bush along with Ridge have PROTECTED US against any attacks since 9-11.

So the messages are coming from all the angles. The strongest of these is that they do not want to go out of power. Proof of a landslide requires drastic action.

But, they can't use the supreme court - again. They can't pretend - again. They can't pull off a non-evidence trail if we take pre-emptive action - let everyone know about this even if it is potentially tinfoil.

We cannot have our vote stolen this way. We do not have to acquiese to manufactured fear. We need a non-propaganda news source and a lot of action.

We do not need a military or executive takeover of the citizens in this manner - through fear - through angst - through concocted mayhem and outright killing.

I'd like to remind people that after 9-11, there were frequent references to other potential targets in the country - the Mall of America was mentioned on corporate news shows many times and in articles. Ask that it and the Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport which is a mile away be closed down. Get someone's attention!

However, why is there a link to an article about Hungary - the home of the twin cities of Buda and Pest - as posted above (or as in the linked DU article)?
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Since you mentioned the Mall of America.....
...that isn't owned by Westfield Shoppingtown is it?

If it IS, you may very well have found a potential target.

Westfield Shoppingtown is owned by Larry Silverstein, the same man who purchased a rather prominent piece of Manhattan real estate - about 6 weeks before it ceased to exist.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Your Kidding
Right? :shrug:
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I doubt it
one more profit making enterprise

Insurance scam AND "electoral bomb"

two birds

one ....
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
36. I posted this for one reason: IF it is true then we need to know and ...
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 10:31 PM by seventhson
someone needs to pay attention to it.

If it is a fraud then THAT needs to be exposed.

But my feeling is that if we get the story out and Vreeland is interviewed by either the government or the press or both, then MAYBE an attack can be prevented.

I hope HLS - decent ones - interview him.

Where's Fox Mulder and Scully when you need them? Too bad they are fictional. We could use someone like them now.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Hummmm this is interesting
Mon May 27, 2:36

Simon Property Group Inc, the co-owner and manager of Minnesota's Mall of America, bought a terrorism policy for the biggest U.S. shopping center. "The only way this issue could be resolved is a plan from the government, because the uncertainty is too great," said Kenneth Rosen, chief executive officer at Lend Lease Rosen Real Estate Securities LLC in Berkeley, California.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:B0IETkhYA1YJ:www.ohi...
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
40. Cut the bullshit already
IF you KNOW that something bad is going to happen in Minneapolis/St. Paul next weekend, for fuck's sake SAY SO.

There are many people on this board who either live, work, or have family in the Twin Cities. I myself live one mile from downtown Minneapolis, and commute to downtown St. Paul every weekday for work.

So how about we cut the tinfoil-hat cloak-and-dagger fearmongering bullshit and just say WTF is going to happen already? And no, I don't give a flying fuck about pedophile rings or ritual satanic abuse right now, especially if my life (and the lives of my family and friends) are in danger.

So either quit showing off, or STFU. This shit is NOT funny.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. No Bullshit, really....
The assertion is that Vreeland, who seems to be connected to intelligence and predicted 9-11, claims there is a plot and that the Twin Cities are the place it may happen (this is according to another poster in the thread I linked) around Halloween.

I just want the story investigated. GB&N says he spoke with Vreeland today or yesterday and he was being set up to silence him.

I know it sounds lame --- but if I were law enforcement instead of a schlub here on DU, I would go and get a statement from this guy. If he is right it would make the cop who did it the bihggest hero ever maybe.

But it MAT be all smoke and mirrors. Sorry for the Orange alert over here.

But the only way for this story to get out is to discuss it and have the feds and.or media interview Vreeland.

That is all I've got and I HOPE I am wrong.


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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
41. Ok, WTF are you talking about?!
:shrug:
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. This is from the same fella
who urged Kerry to play the Nazi card in the debates,
and who also believes China has Osama bin Laden
and is ready to turn him over to BushCo. This is post-tinfoil.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. Doesn't he also claim to be the inventor of Star Wars?
n/t
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #44
48. Yes I ALWAYS believe the Nazi connections to the Bushes SHOULD
Edited on Sat Oct-23-04 07:04 AM by seventhson
be mentioned often. I don't believe I ever said Kerry should raise it during the debates however. If you have a link show it. That is just not true. I may have said I wish it would get raised (by the media).

2. I NEVER said Osama was in China, but I DID post a story from a reliable reporter in a legitimate newspaper who said China had Osama and there was a pending deal with Bush to release him.

Please , if you want to try to discredit me, use real facts and not made up ones.

3. THIOS story hinges completely on the credibility of Vreeland, of whom I know very little.

But two regular DUers posted their concerns here and find the story credible. I too have concerns - I amn NOT saying it is true I am saying it is being said BY Vreeland and law enforcement needs to interview him as well as the media.

Vreeland SEEMS to have gotten it right on 9-11. But maybe, as some of my sources have said, he is a complete fraud.

I wish I knew -- but only by interviewing him will it be known,
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
47. This is starting to annoy me
Since I go to the Twin Cities quite often and don't live too far away.

This scaremongering is just like * and Asscroft and all do. "We have information but we can't reveal it all to you", no offense but this is starting to remind me of kids in high school trying to be cool.

If you have this important information get it out, quit all this secrecy and scaremongering bullshit.
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. All we are asking is for the media and the feds to investigate this
Edited on Sat Oct-23-04 11:02 AM by seventhson
I think it is an extremely unreliable story. However the possibility of Vreeland having any credibility (which seems relatively remote) makes it important to investigate further.

It pisses me off too. But to remain silent is not a valid option.

I apologize because I find Vreeland very hard to believe, and yet the BFEE is too nasty and dangerous to NOT take the assertions by Vreeland seriously.

I wish it were otherwise.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-24-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. But, if this administration achieved mihop on 911, then don't ignore it.
What do ya want a video tape???
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
51. Minstrelboy's Blog has it
Edited on Sat Oct-23-04 02:01 PM by seventhson
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seventhson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-23-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
52. Primo Levy on "Undefined Terror"
"Creating and maintaining an atmosphere of undefined terror in the country was part of the aims of Nazism"

Primo Levy "The Reawakening" Collier Books 1987, p. 199


Levy and Konrad Heiden are the two authors who are critical to read in order to understand how fascism in itys practice of sheer hell really works.

When one considers what role the Bushes played in the rise of the nazis and their support of the idealogy of Hitler, one begins to distrust all theories which decline to acknowledge the evil and the conspiracy to destroy humanity in the name of greed and bloodlust.
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