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Juan Cole: A Million Palestinians Threatened with Starvation by Israel

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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:10 PM
Original message
Juan Cole: A Million Palestinians Threatened with Starvation by Israel


The Israelis already have the Gaza Strip under military siege, carefully controlling what and who goes in and out of it. They have now cut off most fuel, and the United Nations has been forced to stop distributing food aid.

This Israeli government action is an unvarnished war crime. It is known as collective punishment. There was already hunger and malnutrition among Palestinian children, which will now be worsened.

Hamas told Jimmy Carter it was ready to negotiate.

The Olmert government is not interested in negotiating, apparently, even though nothing the Likud and the Kadima "Likud Light" has done since 2001 has diminished the salience of the Gaza Muslim fundamentalist party, including a concerted campaign of murder, kidnapping, assault and collective punishment. Despite the violent groups on its margins, Hamas itself has at various points indicated a willingness to play ordinary politics, but Olmert will be satisfied with nothing less than destroying it. So far it isn't going well for him.

Cutting off fuel to the Gazans and provoking a cut-off of UN food aid is not only criminal but also stupid. It is difficult to imagine such mean-spirited sanctions against civilians having any policy effect whatsoever, so they are just making Israel look bad.

Israeli ambassador to the UN Dan Gillerman called Carter a bigot for his diplomacy.

Gillerman called Arabs "animals" in summer of 2006. Would he like to expand the reference to include other races? How many of us exactly are Untermenschen in his view? For Likudniks to call Jimmy Carter a "bigot" is sort of like the Ku Klux Klan denouncing Nelson Mandela for racial insensitivity.


http://www.juancole.com/2008/04/million-palestinians-threatened-with.html
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. genocide.
for israel of all nations to engage in the genocidal denial of basic needs to one million innocent people makes me feel sick inside.
will the world do anything about this? is there anything i can do about this?
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. You can cry a river or two
Edited on Sun Apr-27-08 06:24 PM by Vegasaurus
and then demand that Hamas act like a real government and put the needs of its citizens first.

Control the militants, the rockets and bombers, the tunnelers and other resistors.

Bring in the food and fuel and electricity instead of trying to blow it up, in the effort to blow up Israelis.

Act like a responsible government and then the needs of a million citizens will be taken care of.
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. You should do a little reading about what transpired after the free and fair elections
in which Hamas gained power.

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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
10. Typical propaganda.
Israel is not engaging in genocide. But, I find it interesting that so many not only use that propaganda crap, but, in the same breath, expect that Israel should act to a different set of rules.

Is there anything you can do? Yes! Learn about the situation in the area and do not swallow such anti-Israeli bullshit like sugar.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. delete n/t
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 10:03 AM by azurnoir
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. okay
after i wrote this i read that hamas was attacking the vehicles that israel was sending in fuel in. it is hard to know what to believe. i am not anti-israel. but i do believe that the government of israel has engaged in practices that many israelis are horrified by, just as the government of the USA horrifies me on a daily basis.

having said that i must add that it is hard to know what to believe anymore. oh i already said that. sigh.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. It wasn't hard for you to know what to believe when . .
. . you were accusing Israel of genocide. Didn't seem to be much doubt in that statement. What changed so that now you, "just don't know what to believe"?
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. i listened to what others said
and as i noted, i read the other story which i had not heard. what i had heard and seen previously was a story on democracy now - actually a couple of them leading up to this - regarding the blockade. several stories. of people dying on their way to medical care because it takes 4 hours to make a 10 minute trip. of essential supplies not being allowed in. etcetera.
whatever.
i think the us govt engaged in genocide following katrina, and continue to do so in iraq. i deplore it.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. it's clear you don't know what genocide
is. Deplorable as the gov't was re Katrina, it wasn't even related to genocide. And actually, the situation in `Iraq is a bit more complex than simply saying the U.S. is practicing genocide. In reality, the U.S. unleashed the conditions that enabled genocide and ethnic cleansing to florish. As for Gaza, what the Israeli Government is doing is deplorable, but it doesn't rise to genocide.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. i know what genocide is

Main Entry:
genocide Listen to the pronunciation of genocide
Pronunciation:
\ˈje-nə-ˌsīd\
Function:
noun
Date:
1944

: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

and i still say that was what happened in new orleans, is happening in iraq, and easily might be happening on the gaza strip
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. something to aware of
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 10:03 AM by azurnoir
first is to be aware of how alive the "word police" are on this forum, any "holocaust" reference or German word is not allowed in relation to Israel's actions towards the Palestinians.

So before "swallowing" anything or being intimidated, Gaza is not genocide it is a siege and has been since Israel "left" Gaza, leaving Gaza in this case means pulling back to the borders and locking every crosssing off tight nothing in or out without Israel's approval, the same applies to Gaza's air space and water ways both are totally blocked by Israel for "security purposes", so no it is not yet officially "genocide" .
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Holocaust references are ridiculous and offensive
Six million Jews were rounded up, sent on airless freight cars, to be gassed in ovens in concentration camps.

No matter what is happening to the Palestinians, it is not a "holocaust" and it is not a genocide.

Palestinians are blowing up their own food and fuel trucks. Jews in concentration camps would have loved food and warmth and light.

Jews in concentration camps were absolutely starved to death. I am sure you have seen the photographs of the survivors. They are human skeletons.

The Palestinians are not starving.

Now, what is happening in Darfur IS a genocide.

It has nothing to do with "word police" and everything to do with accuracy of your semantics..
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yet Nazi references are
used to when referring to Arab as VC pointed out, it has everything to do with semantics and not just mine.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Would you be more comfortable if I said the Arabs want the middle east "Jew free"?
That is what they say.

Nazrallah wants them all to go to Israel so that it is easier to kill them all.

Semantic problems with that?
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Nope n/t
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ProgressiveMuslim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Are "the Arabs" the flip side of "the Jews?" nt
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. i have a sinking feeling
that neither side gives a rat's ass about the suffering of the innocent people. they're all playing it out on a larger stage. eh.
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 05:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. why are simple facts so difficult?
is it because they ruin a preferred narrative?...which in turn means that ones opinion is not based on fact but on a preferred biased view?...i really would like an explanation:

locking every crosssing off tight nothing in or out without Israel's approval,....

do i really have to mention egypt for the zillionth time?...i figured after gazans broke the barrier and egypt built it back up and made it clear that it wants it closed (and israel didnt attack) it was clear that egypt closed it on its own....

so, if one believes that the gaza and egypt share a border, why does one write as if it doesnt exist?.......and the answer is _______________ (i promise not to be drinking any coffee when you write the reply....)


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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do the Gazans
accept any responsibility at all for destroying their own food supply?
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Apparently not
They blow up their food supply and their fuel and the plant that supplies their electricity, and then cry about it.

Obviously, killing Israelis is more important than food, fuel or electricity, supplied by their enemy.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. You'd think that they (Israel) would learn from the American example -
the more you think that starving and killing people will make them throw flowers at you and call you liberator, the more likely they are to ramp up terrorism and violence.
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Folks sure do like to use Nazi terminology in relation this conflict
First Jerry Haber, now Juan Cole!
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Perhaps it is time to think about why it is happening n/t
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notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-27-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Probably because
Hamas won't allow the supply trucks safe passage to Gaza, they would rather destroy them.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Easy-peasy!
What better way to spread hate than to equate the enemy (Israel) to the Nazis. It is a win-win for some because they get to use Nazi references, all the while hurling it at those destroyed by the same people.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. A blast from the past when it comes to using Nazi references...
"They will continue to enjoy the Judenrein'ed Gaza and still pretend they have no control"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=109753&mesg_id=109769

I wonder why some seem to think it's okay to hurl Nazi references to try to equate the enemy (Palestinians) to the Nazis? ;)
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Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Using Nazi terms to describe either side is disgusting.
Neither side is taking any actions that remotely resemble that of the Nazis. Using those terms is usually a craven attempt at associating the enemy with pure evil for PR purposes, (not unlike use of the term apartheid regarding Israel.) But not always.

I think there's an unspoken and possibly unrealized tendency to describe Israel in Nazi terms to assuage Europe's own guilt over their inaction or even pro-Nazi actions during the Holocaust. I also think this is why Europe is so harsh when describing Israeli policy, (among other reasons.) If Israel is nearly as bad as the Nazis themselves, then the crime of allowing the Jews to be slaughtered weighs far less heavily. It's a bizarre form of anti-semitism. If a people exist whose mere presence is a constant reminder of one of your nation's most egregious crimes it is natural to begin resenting them greatly.

There are also certain times when associating the Palestinians with the Nazis is appropriate. During WWII there actually was a collaboration between the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and Adolf Hitler, a quite close one actually, although it was surely just a relationship of mutual convenience. If the discussion is about that conflict during time period then there might be cause to talk about the Palestinians and Nazis having mutual goals regarding the Jews.

That said there are elements on both sides who would not hesitate to commit genocide against the entirety of their enemy's population were they given the opportunity. Unfortunately, while these people represent the fringe of one side, they exert far more political power there than they have any right to. Equally unfortunate, on the other side, these people do not make up the outer fringe of society but actually form their elected government.
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Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. And the elected government uses language
that is all too familiar, in terms of "JEWS".
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Why do you think it is happening?
Personally, I think it's usually done for similar reasons to why Rush Limbaugh uses terms like "feminazi". Or why Ann Coulter uses the name "B. Hussein Obama".

To get attention and to piss off the people with whom they disagree.

However, with this particular comparison, I think it's often done by people with an agenda to demonize Jews (i.e. the Jewish State is as bad (or worse) than the worst regime in human history - and didn't those Jews learn anything from the Holocaust!)

Obviously that isn't the case with Juan Cole and people posting on this board, but it's a meme that is unfortunately picked up and/or disseminated by people with the agenda I mentioned.



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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Yeah, Abba Eban and his 'Auschwitz Line' comes to mind! n/t
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oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. The Left in Israel has been trying to pass legislation to address this
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 06:51 AM by oberliner
Collette Avital and Yuli Tamir tried to get a bill passed as recently as 2005.

Members of the Israeli right-wing parties (such as Avigdor Lieberman's National Union party) vigorous opposed the bill.

Yuli Tamir, former Labor party MK and co-founder of Peace Now, said, "Public discourse must be free of Nazi terminology."

Far right MK, Aryeh Eldad, asked, "What about Abba Eban's remark about the Auschwitz borders? Would he have been punished?"

Members of Labor, Meretz-Yachad, and the Arab-Israeli party, Balad voted in favor of the bill.

Oppostion came from the Right: National Union, Shas, Likud, and others.

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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. And so they should n/t
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
9. What a load of propaganda-laden crap.
There have been multiple attacks by Hamas on fuel caravans, forcing them back into Israel. Hamas is rationing fuel for itself and not giving the need fuel to humanitarian agencies. Where's Cole's reports on this?

Yes, Hamas told Carter they were ready to negotiate, then played him for a fool. They made the exact same demands and were allowing rockets to be fired into Israel as they were supposedly agreeing to negotiate. Olmert's policies are just making Israel look bad? Well, what does it say when the UN had to declare a 3-day stop to aid in the West Bank because the Palestinian government wouldn't protect them or their convoys?

Gillerman never called Arabs "animals," but why tell the truth when lies can be played out to make things worse?

Cole spinning the current events as "Israeli bigotry," is sort of like David Duke saying slavery was actually just legitimate immigration.
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