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Proposition: The Bush Administration will not give up power in 2004

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:22 AM
Original message
Proposition: The Bush Administration will not give up power in 2004
This hit me again on the way home - my gut instinct is that after stealing an election, consolidating their power, and pursuing extreme policies, the Bushies will not willingly give up power, no matter the results of the presidential election - assuming such an election is actually held.

Yes? No? Thoughts?

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ALago1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not now
We still have some semblance of a representative democracy here in the U.S. and Bush will have to concede to that.

However, should he win, I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to extend his power thru 2008.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. I agree. if it happens...then we pull a "Dump Sheverdnaze"
it will be battles raging in the street. It will make Iraq look like Garden of Eden.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Agreed.
However, I don't think it will be very difficult for them. They have the election rigged twenty ways from yesterday -- starting with several cases of Whoop-Ass brand Media Lies and Distortions.

There are at least four different October Surprises they can use (withdrawl from Iraq, withdrawl from Afghanistan, Saddam's show trial, and a possible capture of Osama bin Laden) not to mention that they are supported by every major media conglomerate in this country. Add to that their war chest, espected to weigh in at $250-300 million.

Bush will win without breaking more than a camera-pleasing sweat.

I sincerely believe this era is turning out to be an "end game" for the conservative movement, the oil industry, and the Golden Age of Capitalism. After this, if they have not consolidated their power, they will lose power as quickly as the Know-Nothings or the (American) Whigs.

This is their day -- and they intend to seize it. The question is, will we let them get away with it?

--bkl
Gloom. Doom. Oil struck on the Moon.
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Don't forget Reagan...possible October surprise (win one for the Gipper
and all that crapola revisited)
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Yep, a little shot of Potassium Chloride behind the ear
And we'll have weeks of 24/7 "Dead Soviet Treatment" of Raygun from the Imperial Amerikan Press.

I'm guessing that's what's going to happen.
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jeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. They'll try to steal another close one
But I don't see how they can NOT give up power if they lose the election.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. That is why I like Dean and Slark they WILL NOT give up
They would fight for our votes.
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JailForBush Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. This has been debated to death, but we shoud continue debating it to
death right up to the election.

I think we can safely assume that the Republicans are, at the very least, going to cheat like Hell, manipulating the media, voters and voting machines. My hunch is that they might be reluctant to declare victory if it was obvious that, say, 70% of Americans wanted change. But if the polls (which are typically corrupt and misleading) suggest that Bush should get 48% of the vote, while his opponent gets 52%, then it would be fairly easy for the Repugs to declare victory and claim the polls were off by a few percentage points.

But I think it would be delusional to assume that the Repugs wouldn't consider more drastic manipulation, even including a phony terrorist attack. We're dealing with organized crime, cold-blooded murderers, world-class traitors. That's not rhetoric; it's an obvious truth.

Remember, also, that these jackals could face severe punishment if they were ever brought to justice. If they thought that the Democratic candidate might really stand up to corporate corruption, or that his tenure might gradually usher in some measure of political reform, I suspect they could lash out with a vengeance.

Never turn your back on a Republican (or a Democrat, for that matter).
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. Let's get those moveon.org ads on the AIR!
that's the best start I can think of.

We need to send our money and let moveon know what we think of this, and make sure this stuff gets out there.

If we can take back the media by buying it, we can take back this country for the people.

The truth will set you free always.
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
8. That's my fear too which is why
I urge everyone to become a stealth activist:

THE WHISPERING CAMPAIGN
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=976762

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Ah, yes, very cool.
Leaving information lying around - a favorite tactic of mine. I refer to such leave-behinds as "dropaganda" - the idea came from the "droplift".

This reminds me: I must buy a new printer, before Herr Asscrotch declares them illegal tools of terrorists.

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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. I have no doubt that they'd leave peacefully, but I do wonder what
they'd do, once out of power. After all, it would only take a few well-placed "terst" attacks to get the public back into panic mode.
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meg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. There is no doubt in my mind that they
would do whatever it takes to stay in power. They are not going to give up peacefully. They have shown repeatedly that they do not respect the rule of law. They have shown repeatedly that they do not respect the constitution. They have shown repeatedly that they don't mind Americans dieing for their cause.

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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. I think that you can assume that
the election will be held.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Really?
Well, then, I'm relieved!

Seriously, though - do you think it at all possible that the elections could be postponed or canceled if Bush looks like he won't win?

One of the nagging things in my mind is Tommy "We'll think of George W. Bush as a hero someday" Franks' comments regarding the US becoming a military dictatorship following another attack on US soil.

Kinda makes one nervous, ya know?

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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. No.
The election will be held. Tommy Franks is not *. Tommy Franks is not on active duty. Anybody can say anything, but that doesn't make it reasonable. the election will be held. If * loses, he will vacate the office. He woudn't have a choice, anyway. The same SC that put him in would take him out. The Army would revolt, even if they voted for him.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.
The same SC that put him in would take him out.

No offense to you intended (or hoped for), but this is just a silly statement to me. The Supremes who illegally placed Bush into power for reasons that no doubt benefit them will just throw away their investment?

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. That said, here's hoping you're correct - though I do not feel in my heart that you are. Wish I did.

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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. The Army would take him out?
i don't think so.

If you have been following the news through 2003, you know that BuschCo began in earnest cleaning house at the Pentagon of generals who are less than True Believers.

That quiet purge of the generals has continued.

What you will have left is only Loyal and True Warriors of the One and Only Absolute Truth There Is (whatever that may be).


"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so
long as I'm the dictator." - GW Bush 12/18/2000. CNN TRANSCRIPT
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Oh, that's an excellent point.
The purge - which should be one HUGE tip-off - kinda got shoved into the mental file cabinet.

Thanks for the reminder. Yikes.

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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. Oh, the "election" will be held all right. As in Imperial Rome
the illusion of "freedom" and a functioning Republic is far too important to the Imperial Family.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
13. They've been waiting for this opportunity since...
the late 80s and are in the first stages of their Pax Americana.

They are NOT going to let this go without a fight -- and a dirty one at that.

How far are they willing to go?

I have come to the conclusion after three years that they may go to lengths that will blow our collective minds.

Personally, I am thinking some sort of massive attack that is "foiled" by Bush et al right before election time, or a national emergency that pulls the country together or delays elections.
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devinsgram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. "How far will they go," well here's my theory.
We all know that Cheyney and Rove are capable of anything and if they see they're losing and have no chance of winning, they will go for the sympathy vote.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
14. They will declare Marshall Law by election time....
They've been too "in your face" with their criminality for me to believe they don't fully intend to continue with it.

General Frank's remarks concerning this were just little "desensitizing" trial balloons .... him citing "polls" that "Americans were in favor" of the prospect tells me that it's already on the table.

The MOB is running our country and our media. We need to fix this system in every aspect.

Our FIRST and foremost battle has to take place with the voting machines that are "secret" in their programming, and are owned by the right wing machine, for the most part. If we ever do have another election, at least we can work to make sure our votes can be counted.

For the past 3 years, they haven't been.

:kick:
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TNOE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
44. Agree and Disagree
Disagree that first and foremost is the BBV - the 9/11 ISSUE MUST BE FIRST - they would not stand a chance at anything else. I think they are preparing us for the next "terror strike" - and its going to be worse - so we need to act now.

This was a great article if you haven't read it yet:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook01032004.html

SNIP: - This was in e-mail I got so don't know if it is attached to article or not. But I agree with him. I know many have been donating $$$ to their particular candidates - but if those who can afford it donate money to this lawsuit - maybe we will get somewhere. I still think this issue is just about to break - and that will be our saving grace.

9/11 Widow Ellen Mariani Sues Bush, Cheney, et. al.

Dear readers,
Immediately upon receipt of this editorial from David Kubiak I passed it on to CitizenWatch media list and within 12 hours in was posted at the UN Observer and PRAVDA! I've just been informed by the Editor-in-chief of the Philadelphia City Paper that they will be running stories on the suit in their next two issues. Momentum is clearly building and they really just got started. GNN (Guerilla News Network) also wrote a constructive critique of the RICO filing see below). Ellen, her lawyer and her support team (including yours truly) are now gearing up for public events and press conferences including in New Hampshire where she lives and where there is a great concentration of press in the lead up to the primaries. These may converge with John Buchanan's Republican challenge (johnbuchanan.org) to Bush in the New Hampshire primary who is putting the 9/11 and war profiteering issue at the forefront of his campaign. Michael Elliot or 911review.org also wrote a brief analysis and his site links
directly to the compliant.

Finally, Phil Berg, lawyer for Ellen has launched a fundraising campaign to support the litigation. Ellen has refused the government money from its Compensation fund. He is seeking contributions. Please support the work of his legal team if you are able. While there complaints may not be complete or perfect we feel
that it is a very important legal action that could if nothing else bring more focus on the issues the media continue to largely ignore.


AND THIS:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=42511

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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
48. Pet peeve -- it's MARTIAL law.
We already have marshals, local, federal, and sky. And that's with one "L," not two.

Tansy Gold, occasionally picking nits.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. I've been publishing this 'proposition' for two years now...
...and it's beginning to look like the Democratic party plans to ignore all the warning signs of a second (third?) coup in America.
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. What if elements of the Democratic party are complicit
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. I'm sure some are.
After all, to wrench up an old argument, the DLC has ties to PNAC and AEI.

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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. We need to assume
and make people understand that this is for the whole enchilada. If Bush wins this one it's all over. They will have us in their cluches so hard there will be no way out. Jeb will be in next and they have someone else after that. This is for all the marbles.
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
22. They would prefer not to, obviously
Like everybody else. But Poppy Bush lost. Do you think he wanted to give up power ?... They'll fight, but there are limits to how much you can play with fire without getting hurt seriously. Especially now that all eyes are paying attention... if we have a good candidate/campaign, they may well lose.
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gold_bug Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #22
30. that's right
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 02:14 AM by gold_bug
good post. There's obviously limits to the Republican cheating and dirty tactics, limits that I think they've already reached the edge of. I think the fears of them flat out refusing to cede power when faced with defeat are a bit overblown.
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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. I believe this, too. They will declare a "national emergency" before
they ever allow us to re-gain power. Our goose is cooked and 'has been since 2000.
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The White Rose Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. They don't have to. We've been in an official state of national...
emergency since the early thirties. Declared by FDR, never rescinded...
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
26. they will make it so they don't have to give up power
they didn't win last time, remember?
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CosmicVortex10 Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-04 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. I dont like it either, but I wouldnt don the aluminum foil hat just yet
Your going off the deep end gang, reel it back in a few notches.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. With all due respect, it's the Bushies who have "gone off the deep end".
Let's recap:

1. Stolen election - a bloodless coup d'etat.

2. At best, horrific criminal negligence in not preventing 9/11. At worst, direct complicity in the attacks. The truth may be between those two, but with the stonewalling of the Commission (KISSINGER, for fuck's sake!), we may never know as long as Bush is in office.

3. Questionable invasion of Afghanistan, killing thousands of civilians to uproot - temporarily - the US-created Taliban, and not catching Osama bin Laden. Some reports indicate OBL was allowed to escape at Tora Bora. The plans to invade Afghanistan, by the way, were on Bush's desk before 9/11.

4. Illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, based on outright lies and fear-mongering tactics used by Bush (and others) "against his own people". Death of at least 10,000 Iraqi civilians and 400+ (more we don't know about?) U.S. soldiers.

5. Squelching dissent through the return of COINTELPRO-style tactics, PATRIOT Act and part of PATRIOT II, and the use of "free speech zones", to name just a few examples.

6. Wholesale destruction of environmental rules.

7. Decimation of U.S. industry and job base. Millions of jobs lost.

And on, and on, and on.

The traitors in the White House, I think, are waaaaaaaaaaaay further off the deep end than anyone suggesting they would do whatever is in their power to remain in power.

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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
29. i agree
they are corrupt to the bone and will NEVER relinquish power now. the fix is in.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
31. I think they will pull out all the stops.
If we get a different administration in the White House they might be inclined to investigate a lot of the chicanery this administration has perpetrated and I truly think they fear this, so they will fight to stay in power no matter what it takes.
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emc Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
33. another sept 11
I am firmly convinced that they will arrange another Sept 11, and then call for marshal law during which time they will have an excuse to take over the government----they will have the American people totally wrapped around their fingers------------
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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
34. My thoughts are the same, they cant afforn not to win
so they will cheat like there is no tomorrow. I dont think we have a chance in hell IMHO.
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. if you cheat like tomorrow there is a high chance
you'll get caught. Things can go wrong when you cheat and lie. The more you do it and higher the chance that something will go wrong and will blow up in your face. It takes a ton of good personnel to keep up lies consistently, day after day. It can only be done to a certain extent...
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. With this media? This populace?
Between a compliant corporate media that rarely asks the tough questions, and a citizenry too distracted by their American Idol-Pepsi-Xbox lifestyle to notice, it really doesn't matter if the lies pile up and fall in the laps of John Q. Public.

Remind me again how many people believed Hussein was behind 9/11?

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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. If you want to believe you are powerless etc
Edited on Wed Jan-07-04 05:11 PM by creativelcro
That's up to you, dude. Nobody else can help you... I understand your frustration, but if you have decided to give up why shoudl we care?

PS. I hope "dude" is not considered offensive. These days you never know.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
35. I tend to agree
I don't put anything past this group of rattlesnakes. The Bush cabal is not an ordinary administration. They are radical extremists bent on turning the U.S. into a permanently conservative society. In order to achieve this, they have demonstrated time and time again that they care nothing about the Constitution or people who weren't born wealthy.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
36. a few possibilities
Obviously they will cheat like hell. Remember, most Americans don't know about the disenfranchised Florida voters. They can count on the press ignoring all but the most blatant vote manipulation.

Of course we can expect the press to dig up all kinds of dirt on the Dem candidate, and spin non-dirt so it looks like dirt, while portraying Bush as compassionate and benevolent.

If they lose they might try to pull some shit, and I think we need to have a plan of action in case they do - massive, non-violent protests; a decentralized non-violent resistance movement already in place; a network of whatever independent media we can find to tell the truth. I think the reThugs will follow the Slobodan Milosevic/Vladimir Putin model of rigging elections and controlling the press. It would behoove any DUers who are not already familiar with the Serbian democratic resistance, particularly Otpor, to read up on their tactics.

But they might just let a Dem president take over, and use the Republican Congress and corporate media to make him appear ineffectual. Congress can keep questionable defense spending and corporate welfare on the table even with a Democratic president; it can block nominations right and left; it can also fight new tax/corporate governance/safety/environmental regulations; and they can still fall back on the Gingrich trick of bankrupting the government and trying to blame the president for it.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Great idea
One effective protest might be a massive, nationwide one day/week/month work stoppage if Bush wins where people would stay home from work. This would bring the economy to a grinding halt and put the powers-that-be on notice that we won't tolerate anymore of their shenanigans. A worker with his hands in his pocket is very powerful.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. ...at least until said worker gets beaten down.
But yes, I agree. Very good idea. Massive sick calls should that happen, I imagine.

I know I'D be sick!

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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. I know that I am going to call in sick...
if the Chimp is "elected."
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
47. Do you mean the "big shots" or the "little weasels"
... my gut instinct is that after stealing an election, consolidating their power, and pursuing extreme policies, the Bushies will not willingly give up power, no matter the results of the presidential election - assuming such an election is actually held.

I'm actually more worried about the "little weasels." There are a whole lot of people who think Shrub is the Second Coming, and if he doesn't win, these people are going to be mad. They may even refuse to obey.

Democrats screamed and moaned about the stolen election of 2000, as well we should. Still, we are paying our taxes and working at our jobs and generally obeying the law of the land. Much though we nip at Shrub's heels, we haven't had a sit-in at the White House, nor have we occupied the halls of Congress. I can easily imagine some Freepers, though, refusing to accept a loss in the polls.

If we are successful in defeating Republicans at the voting booth, do you really think they are going to accept it in the streets? I really don't.

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