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I'm starting to think the Fix is in for the Election.....

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sventvkg Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:09 PM
Original message
I'm starting to think the Fix is in for the Election.....
With the New Secret bill that has all the Patriot act II provisions in it and ghestapo tactics as well as the Failure of the Dems in Congress to do anything about it, I'm starting to think there has been a silent Coup in This Country...And Neocons are Dictators..Apparently we have been powerless to stop it and maybe mechanisms are in place (BB E-Voting) that are going to assure them of a victory next year and make it look like there was a Vote and we are still a democracy when in fact The Right has Seized power in a masked FAcist dictatorship..

I want to be optomistic about our chances next year and I think in a fair election, we would KILL Bush and I'm sorry If I get flamed here but I have this Nagging feeling The Fix is in.....Does anyone else have this nagging feeling????? I want you to be HONEST and REAL here....

What would you do if this does happen? If the America we knew disappeared overnight only by Stealth..Because that is the way it would be done..we are hanging on by a thread here and it's more serious then most of us want to acknowledge...Dean said this, and Clark said that, and blah blah...It's all Bull$#$...We are in serious chrisis and on the verge of losing our country and way of life to a bunch of Fanatics..but i'm sure i'll get flamed for being crazy and paranoid...Oh well, remember my words when you finally come out of denial because this is what I see...Plain as day...
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FarLeftRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, if that does indeed happen
and there are enough po'd people around, there will be either a revolution or a civil war...
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. what does Patriot Act II have to do with the election?
or with the neocons? Actually it seems to me that the neocons' aspirations have stalled due to the Iraq fiasco, if only temporarily.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. The point is, we'll never know
It's a secret law. The law could read that Bush will win in 2004 and there is nothing anybody can do about it. We won't ever know because the law is secret.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. that's not true
there's no way this law could be anything like that. Not even close.



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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Read it and weep
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/94248.php

According to the Associated Press:

The changes were included in a bill authorizing 2004 intelligence programs. Most of the details of the bill are secret, including the total cost of the programs, which are estimated to be about $40 billion. That would be slightly more than Bush had requested.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. point out to me anything about elections
you don't even have to say anything about mandating Bush's winning, like you suggested, just anything remotely related to elections.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. How the fuck can I point out anything? IT'S A FUCKING SECRET!
Edited on Sat Dec-27-03 11:40 PM by Walt Starr
There's no way whatsoever to tell what they passed into law because it's a FUCKING SECRET LAW!!!

For all we know it could read precisely like this:

"Be it enacted by the United States Congress that since the people will find change during these trying times distressing and that terrorists shall find such a change an opportune time for attack, there shall be only the appearance of an election in 2004. George W. Bush shall retain office for an additional four years to preserve National Security"

and there is no way we will ever find out about it because IT'S A FUCKING SECRET LAW!!!!
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. I think the "secret law" thing is misinformation
or possibly disinformation.

Either way, it does no good to believe this or repeat it, especially in capital letters.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "a secret law". What do you mean by this,and where are you getting your info?

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I think the secret law gives Bush absolute dictatorial power
The thing is, we'll never know which one of us is right because it's a FUCKING SECRET!
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oregonjen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. not to sound stupid but...
Are the bills that a President signs secret? Aren't they supposed to be public for checks and balances?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Apparently not so for Enablin....er....um....Patriot Act II
n/t
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. The president has the power of executive order
which, in theory, could be used for "classified" items - and thus kept away from a) going through congress and b) public disclosure /freedom of information act.

Not sure if this is the case with the provisions from Patriot II, or not, but it is a way that teh president can get around checks and balances.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. ya THINK ???
The BUSH II PLAN was *ALWAYS* for eight years; maybe 12 if you tack on Jeb. There is no way in HELL a fair election will happen next year.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. No, It's not paranoid
But you are preaching to the choir. It's been pretty obvious for quite awhile to a most DU Americans.

Harrad.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. it started in 2000 and
in three short years the country is now in the hands of fasists. it`s a judeo-christian take over of the united states and a crusade against the muslim religion and it`s peoples. the media in the united states has been the driving force to futher the programs of those who intend on doing this. information is closely controlled by the whitehouse and then released to their loyalists in the news outlets thus influences what people should believe. the only people who see this are those who understand what is going on-the left and the far right neo nazis and that is what is truly scary
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-27-03 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
15. "..there has been a silent Coup in This Country"
- Many of us have been saying this since the 2000 'coup'...and it really wasn't that silent.

- In fact...the impeachment of Clinton was their first attempt at a coup...but It wasn't until 2000 when they had all their chess pieces in place: Jeb. Harris. Florida Legislature. Baker. Supreme Court.

- Some seem to think that they'll be 'riots or a civil war' if the Bushies screw us again in 2004. But I think the people will once again do nothing. BushCo* knows that the people and their representatives are powerless and in no position to stop them.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
16. time will tell
that part of me that still believes in 'fairness' wants to believe that elections are not rigged. However, the realist in me sides with you. Something has changed fundamentally in the way the government is conducting business. It may be too late. And I don't think there will be a revolution, as some others mentioned. The apathy is too high, the 'reality' tv shows seemingly too transfixing, the rampant shopping jones too great.
To call it facism is actually a bit off the mark. It's corporatism, which is a modern spin off, and just as devastating. And to think that it will just 'go away' is, in my mind, extremely unrealistic.

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YellowDawgDemocrat Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Nonsense
This is nothing but paranoia.
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sventvkg Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Sure Man....
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Have you heard about...
Edited on Sun Dec-28-03 07:49 AM by Q
...the purged voter lists in Florida? Did you know that some of the people purged from that list committed felonies in 2007? That was no problem for Bush's campaign chair in Florida and Sec of state Harris: she simply instructed poll workers to erase the evidence of an 'error'. This is but ONE of the methods they used to slant the election towards their pal George*.

- It's okay by me if you think anything but the official line is 'paranoia'...but please don't get in the way of those who think Democracy is too important to leave to despots like Bush* and Cheney.
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nansocal Donating Member (181 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. call it what you want....
with this crowd in the white house you have to assume, that they will not give up all the powers they have acquired in the last 3 years. ask yourself this... they have given the president alot of power, do you think they are just going to let a democrat win and have that same power? no, they act like they will be in control for awhile. so paranoia ? I say it's the truth, and we better decide how we are going to keep them from stealing this election , if we even can.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
17. As much as the rest of the country has failed to really
question the California fiasco, why do yo ask? We have a cartoon as a Governor, the fifth largest economy in the world has a fictional character as their fearless leader and you ask silly questions? YES, THEY HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!

Read how Hitler came into power.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. I would hope that the Supreme Court...
would insist as to the legitimacy of the election results...this time.
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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Look at the track record of the Whore Court
Sadly, I believe the fix is in. Even if the Democrats win, I believe Bush will refuse to accept the results.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
22. Not in denial here; but Christmas dinner convinces me, denial runs DEEP
How far we are.. Even the most grounded, loving woman I know in our extended family is unwilling to think or talk about political situations in any way. "Bury my head deeper in the sand."

Life is easier when you ignore it all, but it's so sad that people don't feel a stronger sense of responsibility.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Buy or rent a copy of 'Unprecendented'....
...and watch it with her. I'll guarantee it will change her mind.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. We are all slowly being boiled like the oblivious frogs in the soup pot
This was my experience with my family too this holiday. Mind, these are people who are politically more aware than most Americans. They marched in the peace protests in the DC area, they subscribe to dem email lists, they read the news and not just the US propaganda media, they've all read Greg Palast... And yet, they are sure that nothing REALLY bad can happen, because the courts will save us, the American people would rebel, etc. Even my mother who 2 years ago said that * reminded her of Hitler says it can't happen here. I tried to get our family to sit down together and talk about making a contigency plan if things go really wrong. No doing. Things will never get that bad, we aren't germany in the '30s, it can't happen here.
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ripplingwater Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. You saw this, right?
Someone posted a link to this site last week.
http://rightweb.irc-online.org/

<<<What's happened to the Project for the New American Century? After helping push the country into war with Iraq, the influential neocon outfit has all but disappeared from the national scene. Although its leaders continue to write inflammatory articles about global hot spots, the group seems to have lost its ability to generate support for its agenda. Will there ever be another open letter to the president?>>>

So, if you needed anything to convince someone that PNAC was related to the rush to war, the phrase "After helping push the country into war" should prove convincing.

Then below, the title is "Poor Richard Perle". GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK! They seem to be proud of his "Prince of Darkness" title.

<<<Poor Richard Perle. After suffering through a year of scandals regarding his business dealings that drove him to step down as chairman of the Defense Policy Board, the "Prince of Darkness" is once again at the center of controversy. According to the Financial Times, a little more than a year after Boeing invested $20 million in his investment firm--Trireme--Perle lauded a controversial Pentagon proposal to lease tankers from the aerospace giant in an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal. Perle's coauthor: Thomas Donnelly, a fellow at the Project for the New American Century and former communications director for Lockheed Martin.>>>

Talk about sheer freaking blatancy - these people are monsters.
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Indiana Democrat Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
28. Conspiracy theories create excuses...
...for why we can't win.

Personally, I'll stick to reality and win.
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JewelsforDennis Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. Work work and work
Yeah, it feels like the fix is in. We have so much to learn about how to work together as a people and keep that precious Bill of Rights and Constitution which is slowly being chipped away. We, as a people are finally getting the idea that something is wrong. We have much against us, including that the media we've have relied on no longer will work hard for us. The courts system is under siege and most of the protections in our society are going by the way side. All I can say is that I work on a minute by minute basis attempting to communicate, educate and work together with my community and state at trying to stop this snowball before its too far down the mountain. In our state we've created an organization of just a few months and we've done some great things and we hope to turn around the voting fraud in our state. www.TrueVoteMD.org
You know what you know and don't worry what others ignorance fails to see. Just work hard a being a force of good will and don't let up.
What will I do if the fix happens? I'm not sure...it depends on how many others will work with me. I'll work with whomever will organize and get out there to do what ever it takes. Otherwise I, like many friends I've spoken with who are brushing up on their languages, may find another place to be. Again, don't worry what other's may say. I'm right there with you along with all the rest.
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
31. Think About The Delayed Republican Convention Too
Canidates can raise and spend as much in the Primary as they can the Election itself.

Now, if Dimbo is relying on the Media to furnish him with pre-campaign coverage and he can equally divert fund-raising efforts beween the two before the two, then he can effectively blow three-quarters of a Billion for advertising in the campaign to get him re-selected between September and the first few days of November.

THAT'S Scary!
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BackDoorMan Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
32. Well Dude, I'd say not a moment too soon!
Of course it is...GIVE ME A FUCKING BREAK...ANY DEMO NOMINEE IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE A CRAZED LIBERAL, WHO CAN'T BE TRUSTED, WITH THIS WONDERFUL ECONOMY JUST AS IT'S ON IT'S WAY TO A HUGE REBOUND, AND THESE DEMOS CAN'T BE TRUSTED TO GET AND KILL THE TERRORIST IN OUR OWN BACKYARDS AND BUSH LOVES AMERICA, HE'S THE MOST PATRIOTIC AMERICAN ALIVE...HE GOT SADDAM!
FUCKING DEMOS HAVE NO MONEY (BUSH CAN BUY THE ELECTION WITH HIS 400 MILLION DOLLARS) THE DEMOS HAVE NO MEDIA HELPING AT EVERY TURN ONLY A MEDIA TO MAKE THEM LOOK EXACTLY AS ROVE WANTS THEM TO APPEAR. THE DEMOS AREN'T THE INCUMBENTS, THE DEMOS HAVE NO TALK RADIO TO HELP THEM, THE DEMOS DON'T HAVE 20 MILLION OF THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT SUPPORTING THEM, THEY CAN'T WIN THE SOUTH, (INCLUDING FLORIDA & TEXAS) THE CAN'T WIN IN ALASKA, WEST VIRGINIA, NEW HAMPSHIRE...THE DEMOS CAN'T WIN ALL THE MID WEST AND THE 20 OR SO RED STATES, THE DEMOS DON'T OWN THE SOFTWARE TO ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES, ETC. ETC.

NOT A FUCKING CHANCE IN HELL!!!

(AS IF LITTLE DEANNIE IS GOING TO OVERCOME EVERYTHING)...IT'S A JOKE, EVERY LOSER HAS PLAYED THIS SAME SHIT AND SAYS THE SAME SHIT IN EVERY SINGLE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION SINCE GEORGE WASHINGTON AND HAS SAID HE IS REALLY GOING TO GIVE IT THE OLD COLLEGE TRY AND WE MIGHT JUST WIN THIS THING...YEAH RIGHT, GET FUCKING REAL...OH WELL I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTED MY CAMPAIGN, SORRY WE DIDNT WIN, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!

THE DEMOS WILL GET THEIR 50 MILLION VOTES THROUGH OUT THE COUNTRY AND BUSH WILL STILL CHEAT AND WIN AND BE THE PRESIDENT FOR AT LEAST THE NEXT FOUR YEARS!

JUST A BUNCH OF SHEEP!

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LibertyBe11e Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-28-03 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
35. unfortunately, you are not alone.
I've been feeling this way since Nov '02

I refuse to buy into false hopes anymore.

if they flame you for it, I'll share the heat. the writing IS on the wall.
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