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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 11:28 AM
Original message
Florida 2000_Election Fraud
I can conclusively prove that fraud was committed in the State of Florida in the year 2000 Presidential election.

The proof has nothing to do with disenfranchisement.
The proof has nothing to do with uncounted ballots.

Anyone interested in this information?
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bring it on... n/t
whoop
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RogueTrooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. Absolutely
Please...
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Have at it!
We could announce it on "the Guy James Show" which I co-host. We're based in Naples so it's as good a place as any plus we have a HUGE internet audiance besides the actually radio coverage.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. YES YES YES YES YES!
Bring it on!
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:31 AM
Response to Reply #4
82. I have some good info
I'm trying to get records secured in Florida.
Hey what happened to private e-mail?
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. Would this have anything to do with absentee ballots?
Because the Purge has certainly been the biggest proven story so far.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Absebtee ballots
I can never forget the gleefully, sly, and confident smirks on the faces of the right wing spokespeople when referring to the still unreported absentee ballots during the period from Nov 8 to sometime before December 12. Everytime they referred to it, I 'knew' that it had something more to do with just the belief that the military absentee ballots would favor Republicans.

By the way, we layed down and accepted the decision that those military votes that came in late would be counted.

Why did we take all that fraud? Because we still believed in our country.

Yeah, right, the right wing brought honor and dignity to the White House...and they did it all in suits and ties.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
83. No, no there was broad daylight stuff
the chad shit was to sow confusion and distraction, Emphasis was put on people "thinking" Bush won the first recount etc., he didn't, phone calls were made, totals changed on the fly, all the "mistakes" weren't covered up
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ret5hd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. why, yes, i am interested...
will you post more?
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. Hey! Ani Yun Wiya!
Whatcha leaving us hanging for?!
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Ugnmoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
9. Is the Pope Catholic?
Quit teasing - let us have it!
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Abbalon Donating Member (267 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Please show us any Democratic fraud
Ani Yun Wiya, I challange you to debate the material you claim shows fraud in the Florida election. I have seen it at FR but as fortune would have it, I have been banned from participating at FR.

I do not think you have the courage to post reichwing sponsored disinformation here. Much less to actually debate it.

Here is your golden oportunity to enlighten the unwashed.

We here at DU would welcome an exchange that included objective material backed up by reliable sources.

I am holding my breathe in anticipation.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Really. What's up with this claim?
very dramatic and foreboding of Democratic fraud.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Oh. "It's" claiming Dem fraud?
Fuck "it" then because our 87,000 Purged voters trumps ALL.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Not Democrat fraud, Republican fraud
Edited on Wed Jul-16-03 03:19 PM by Ani Yun Wiya
BTW, what is FR?

Some background for my claim:

Ever since 1960, I have been a keen observer of the process of the Presidential Elections.
Every four years I have been aware of and followed the campaigns of the various candidates,
the debates and of course Election Night coverage.
In the year 2000, I followed the same things in the news, on television and online.
What transpired that night had me glued to various sources of information for the next nine days straight.
I followed the news reports that followed Election Night for the next several months.
As well as a vast number of discussion groups on the web.
Yet nowhere in all this information did I find an answer to a question that came up at about
2:15 AM on the 8th of November.
The question was in several parts:

1. How many people showed up to cast ballots?
2. How many of these ballots counted as "votes"
3. How many of these ballots were not valid "votes"
4. How difficult is it to count these ballots?


The question stuck with me, because as the situation progressed various entities such as
The Florida State Division of Elections, The Florida Courts and a host of reputable newspapers each had
different absolute totals for the number of "votes" counted and the total number of ballots cast.

Some time in December of 2000 someone in a discussion group suggested that the best way to get at
the totals of the under votes and over votes in Florida would be to gather details of returns at precinct
level for each county.

This seemed like something worthwhile to do so I began the process of collecting official county level
documentation of the election returns, for each of the 67 counties in the State of Florida. Some of this data
was available online, some was received by fax, some by email and the remainder by regular mail.
The information that I sought from each county was:

1. Total ballots cast
2. Total votes for each candidate.
3. Total under votes, total over votes, absentees and overseas.

I set up a spreadsheet to keep track of the information provided by each county.
Other charts were also derived from the documents provided by each county in conjunction with online documentation from the State DOE and the various newspapers and other entities that analyzed the Election returns.

As each county in its turn sent the official results that they certified, I continued to notice differences between what the county supervisors reported for their county and what the State DOE reported for that county.
In view of the fact that the charts indicate differences in 62 counties, between what the County Supervisor
of Elections certifies for their county and what the State DOE certifies for that same county I can only conclude that the Certification for the State of Florida being neither true nor correct, is false on its face and should not have been accepted.

The only remedy I see is to exclude this document and all that resulted from it.
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Okay - so what are the totals?
How big is the discrepancy?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Regarding totals
Only 5 counties have the same numbers in all respects.
In 26 counties "total ballots cast" are the same, in 41 counties they are not.

Regarding "total ballots cast" DOE represents 27 counties as having "more", 14 as having "less".

Regarding "counted ballots" (valid votes) DOE represents 16 counties as having "more", 32 as having "less".
In 19 counties the numbers are the same for "counted ballots".

Overall the State DOE, (Katherine Harris' office) certified that 4,060 more ballots were cast than what the counties certified.
The State DOE also certified that 1,931 more votes were counted than what the counties certified.
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Interesting.
I'd like to hear more. Is there anyway to break down the added state ballots?

Also, has the state ever addressed this issue?
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
98. AYW...any details on who these votes went to?
as in which candidate (as if i don't already know)? is there a breakdown by party registration? i know the state of georgia does this (at least in some of their analyses) because i looked at the numbers for the mckinney/majette race.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #98
101. I would have to take another look.
The analysis was not geared towards "who won", but why there were some rather large differences in overall totals in the categories:

1. Total ballots cast.
2. Total votes counted
3. Total uncounted ballots.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. thanks...this is definitely interesting
and deserves further attention. :toast: to all your hard work. as an accountant, i am particularly interested in how they explain these discrepancies. please keep us posted.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #101
105. The counties where DOE say more & the counties where they say less
Can you break those down into whether the county, as a whole, voted for bush or for Gore? If the counties where DOE says more were shrub counties and the counties where they say less were Gore counties, this would be even MORE interesting than it is now.
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #105
107. I found this information
I decided to go see if I can find out which counties went for whom. So, from the post below on the vote totals, I've added Bush or Gore after them to indicate who carried that county.

County---------Counted------Counted
----------------Votes--------Votes
----------------(SOE)--------(DOE)

ALACHUA---------85,666-------85,729…..Gore
BAKER------------8,155--------8,154…..Bush
BAY-------------58,928-------58,805…..Bush
BRADFORD---------8,680--------8,673….Bush
BREVARD--------218,663------218,395….Bush
BROWARD--------573,306------575,143….Gore
CALHOUN----------5,178--------5,174….Bush
CHARLOTTE-------66,885-------66,896….Bush
CITRUS----------57,251-------57,204….Bush
CLAY------------57,370-------57,353….Bush
COLLIER---------92,122-------92,162….Bush
COLUMBIA--------18,513-------18,508….Bush
DESOTO-----------7,805--------7,811….Bush
DIXIE------------4,666--------4,666….Bush
DUVAL----------265,173------264,636….Bush
ESCAMBIA-------116,769------116,648….Bush
FLAGLER---------27,137-------27,111….Gore
FRANKLIN---------4,642--------4,644….Bush
GADSDEN---------14,739-------14,727….Gore
GILCHRIST--------5,400--------5,395…Bush
GLADES-----------3,365--------3,365….Bush
GULF-------------6,154--------6,144….Bush
HAMILTON---------3,971--------3,964….Bush
HARDEE-----------6,237--------6,233….Bush
HENDRY-----------8,139--------8,139….Bush
HERNANDO--------65,252-------65,219….Gore
HIGHLANDS-------35,149-------35,149….Bush
HILLSBOROUGH---360,295------360,295… Bush
HOLMES-----------7,400--------7,395….Bush
INDIAN RIVER----49,622-------49,622…Bush
JACKSON---------16,300-------16,300….Bush
JEFFERSON--------5,643--------5,643….Gore
LAFEYETTE--------2,505--------2,505….Bush
LAKE------------88,545-------88,611….Bush
LEE------------184,361------184,377….Bush
LEON-----------103,237------103,124….Gore
LEVY------------12,724-------12,724…Bush
LIBERTY----------2,410--------2,410….Bush
MADISON----------6,168--------6,162….Bush
MANATEE--------110,221------110,221…..Bush
MARION---------102,656------102,956….Bush
MARTIN----------62,013-------62,013…..Bush
MIAMI-DADE-----625,270------625,449….Gore
MONROE----------33,915-------33,887….Gore
NASSAU----------23,789-------23,780….Bush
OKALOOSA--------70,747-------70,680….Bush
OKEECHOBEE-------9,854--------9,853….Bush
ORANGE---------280,140------280,125….Gore
OSCEOLA---------55,658-------55,658….Gore
PALM BEACH-----432,301------433,186…Gore
PASCO----------142,731------142,731…Gore
PINELLAS-------398,469------398,472….Gore
POLK-----------168,585------168,607…Bush
PUTNAM----------26,248-------26,222….Bush
SANTA ROSA------50,179-------50,319….Bush
SARASOTA-------160,940------160,942….Bush
SEMINOLE-------137,703------137,637….Bush
ST.JOHNS--------60,781-------60,746….Bush
ST.LUCIE--------77,989-------77,989….Gore
SUMTER----------22,261-------22,261….Bush
SUWANEE---------12,462-------12,457…Bush
TAYLOR-----------6,808--------6,808….Bush
UNION------------3,826--------3,820….Bush
VOLUSIA--------183,674------183,653….Gore
WAKULLA----------8,587--------8,587….Bush
WALTON----------18,332-------18,318….Bush
WASHINGTON-------8,024--------8,025….Bush

TOTAL--------5,958,688----5,960,623


The results I've added as to winner in the county comes from this CNN site: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/FL/index.html

There doesn't necessarily seem to be a pattern.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. ahh...but there IS a pattern
Edited on Thu Jul-24-03 09:55 PM by noiretblu
assuming the precinct totals are the accurate ones, if you subtract DOE from SOE, there is a clear pattern.

net loss for bush counties: -790 votes

net gain for gore counties: 2719 votes

the difference equals the total discrepancy of 1929

the largest discprepancies were as follows:

BROWARD 1837 GORE
PALM BEACH 885 GORE

i do find it interesting that the two biggest discrepancies are in counties that went for gore.

just looking at the numbers, it certainly leaves the impression that the DOE totals favor gore.

however, if there was malfeasance (and there is every reason to believe there was), what better way to disguise it than in pro-gore counties?

it's crucial to find out which candidates these votes were credited to in these two counties. if these votes went to bush...then do believe our friend has found a potential smoking gun.


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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-03 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #111
119. The columns that I posted...
Represent the total of ballots which were determined to be valid votes for all candidates.
Why should there be any difference between SOE and DOE?

I was not trying to determine "who won".
I was looking more at the veracity and legitimacy of process in the State of Florida.

It is my conclusion that the certification for the State of Florida is false and therefore not valid and should have been excluded at the federal level.

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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-03 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #107
118. In reply...
I tried my level best to ascertain some sort of "pattern".
The only one I found was that the final tallies were inconsistent went one compared SOE and DOE.

The strangest thing I found was that among the 67 counties there were 1065 write-in votes which were all valid, the DOE, however only tallied 40 write-in votes.

How can this be explained?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #17
121. Another part of a chart
COUNTY-----------BALLOTS------BALLOTS
------------------CAST---------CAST
-----------------(SOE)--------(DOE)


ALACHUA----------85,993--------86,144
BAKER-------------8,295---------8,300
BAY--------------59,591--------59,520
BRADFORD----------9,414---------9,414
BREVARD---------219,082-------218,989
BROWARD---------587,928-------588,007
CALHOUN-----------5,256---------5,256
CHARLOTTE--------70,103--------70,100
CITRUS-----------57,468--------57,468
CLAY-------------57,765--------57,764
COLLIER----------95,350--------95,320
COLUMBIA---------19,206--------19,206
DESOTO------------8,506---------8,512
DIXIE-------------4,994---------4,998
DUVAL-----------292,082-------291,626
ESCAMBIA--------121,141-------121,141
FLAGLER----------27,199--------27,194
FRANKLIN----------5,070---------5,070
GADSDEN----------16,812--------16,812
GILCHRIST---------5,688---------5,688
GLADES------------3,714---------3,722
GULF--------------6,565---------6,565
HAMILTON----------4,360---------4,353
HARDEE------------6,645---------6,645
HENDRY------------8,939---------8,950
HERNANDO---------65,500--------65,500
HIGHLANDS--------36,158--------36,158
HILLSBOROUGH----369,467-------369,467
HOLMES------------7,536---------7,541
INDIAN RIVER-----51,559--------51,559
JACKSON----------17,457--------17,470
JEFFERSON---------6,213---------6,215
LAFEYETTE---------2,678---------2,679
LAKE-------------92,159--------92,046
LEE-------------188,954-------188,978
LEON------------103,418-------103,388
LEVY-------------13,484--------13,490
LIBERTY-----------2,598---------2,598
MADISON-----------6,643---------6,642
MANATEE---------111,599-------111,676
MARION----------106,001-------106,001
MARTIN-----------62,623--------62,570
MIAMI-DADE------653,896-------654,044
MONROE-----------34,095--------34,095
NASSAU-----------25,387--------25,387
OKALOOSA---------71,512--------71,512
OKEECHOBEE-------10,712--------10,722
ORANGE----------280.170-------282,529
OSCEOLA----------57,340--------57,341
PALM BEACH------462,003-------462,588
PASCO-----------146,648-------146,648
PINELLAS--------406,956-------406,956
POLK------------169,484-------169,582
PUTNAM-----------26,416--------26,416
SANTA ROSA-------50,455--------50,684
SARASOTA--------163,740-------163,749
SEMINOLE--------137,970-------137,970
ST.JOHNS---------61,313--------61,313
ST.LUCIE---------78,638--------78,709
SUMTER-----------23,023--------23,032
SUWANEE----------13,194--------13,189
TAYLOR------------7,407---------7,413
UNION-------------4,084---------4,084
VOLUSIA---------184,064-------184,153
WAKULLA-----------9,009---------9,017
WALTON-----------18,542--------18,537
WASHINGTON--------8,353---------8,353
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Regarding totals
Only 5 counties have the same numbers in all respects.
In 26 counties "total ballots cast" are the same, in 41 counties they are not.

Regarding "total ballots cast" DOE represents 27 counties as having "more", 14 as having "less".

Regarding "counted ballots" (valid votes) DOE represents 16 counties as having "more", 32 as having "less".
In 19 counties the numbers are the same for "counted ballots".

Overall the State DOE, (Katherine Harris' office) certified that 4,060 more ballots were cast than what the counties certified.
The State DOE also certified that 1,931 more votes were counted than what the counties certified.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. What do you propose we do?
We can't do much without the actual data.

Go on, please.
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DEM FAN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well I Am Still NOT Over It. I Will NEVER Be Over It. And Nobody Can
Make Me GET Over It. :-(
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. The data...
Is a serious stack of paper, plus about 75 MB of electronic files.

There are currently only two copies of the entire analysis.

One went to Greg Palast several months ago, whether he will do something with it is anyone's
guess.

More than a year ago I gave him the conclusions in five tidy little charts and I heard nothing back,
until several months ago when his people contacted the attorney where the originals were housed,
asking if they could have a full copy.

There are however six files that I would be willing to send to anyone in the legal profession who would
agree to pursue the matter with serious intent.

I have been informed by a former Congressional attorney, someone who was in JFK's staff back in the
60's, that the matter has merit and IS actionable.
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Tennessee Gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Has this information been published?
Has it been reported at all?

Did all your figures come directly from Florida government sources?

What do you intend to do with this?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
32. I would like all 230 million of us...
who did NOT vote for the criminal in the White House to be aware of these findings.
(That is my intent)

No this has not been reported anywhere.

Yes, all of the data came directly from Officials in Florida.
Each of the 67 Supervisors of Elections were individually contacted for their county's numbers.

(That is, for the set of numbers that are representative of what the counties certified for their counties.
I have ALL of the other sets of numbers, ie: NORC and the papers from their original sources as well)

The interesting thing is that at least two dozen of the Supervisors, when I spoke with them on the
phone said that there was no reason for the numbers to differ.

Several even indicated that the numbers should NOT be different.
Several counties were also rather tight with their numbers, and they had to be "pried" out them.
(Many letters and faxes were ignored or somehow "never received" and it took several telephone calls
before the information was sent.)

My analysis was aimed at getting the absolute totals of ballots cast versus ballots counted as votes,
in a effort to arrive at the absolute total of "uncounted" ballots.

I got into this because none of the newspaper "studies" were complete and inclusive of all 67 counties.
The NORC study also had substantial differences in it's final tallies of even just the "uncounted" ballots.

I was not trying to find out who "won", although it does appear that Gore did win in Florida by an even
slimmer margin than the "537" votes that were represented as the "winner's" margin of "victory".
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
84. There's a conference on Sept. 7th in Philly on the election
sorry don't have more info, yet
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. Actionable in what manner?
I'm no lawyer but I fail to see how any action can be taken. Bush* has been sworn in and will not be removed because of voter fraud no matter how verifiable. It is very interesting and makes for very good type but at this stage of the game I don't see it going anywhere. A lawyer would only attempt to do something with this to gain publicity IMHO.
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #20
43. As stated below, I'd contact David Boises firm
Edited on Thu Jul-17-03 08:54 AM by jackstraw45
Handled the Gore legal challenge in Florida - I'd see if they're interested.

David Boises
Managing Partner
[email protected]
212-909-7600
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. What prevents
Repubs from saying that the newspapers reported the wrong numbers? Seems to me that if your proof relies upon numbers gleaned from a media source, you are coming up way short here.
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DUreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Re-read what has been written, news reports started the process
Sounds like official results were obtained via fax, email, and snail mail.

Those were then compared to state DOE official results
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Exactly
and the Freepers will simply say the newspaper wrote down the wrong numbers or changed them maliciously. Liberal bias and all that crap.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Wake up, Nederland.
S/he said s/he collected "official county level documentation of the election returns, for each of the 67 counties in the State of Florida," not information from the media.

I hope you will also send a copy of your information to Bev Harris, who is compiling a major study of voting fraud. Most of her work has to do with electronic voting machines, but I'm sure she would be interested in these numbers. In fact, she has collected some similar information and may be in a position to provide confirmatory backup for your work.

Thank you for your work.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Thank YOU
I will get in touch with Bev Harris tomorrow.
Perhaps her company can get this information to the populace.
Perhaps then this original lie can be stacked up with all the others that these criminals
have foisted upon us.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
46. Best of Luck
Perhaps its just that I've been here too long to not be skeptical about these things.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Ani Yun Wiya got the information directly
This is not gleened from news reports. AYW went through the trouble of collecting all this info directly from each county and from the state and put it all together. AYW is claiming the number don't match when you line them up county to county. If this is true, then we have a serious problem with the 'certified' results that the outcome of the election was based upon.

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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #27
33. Glad to see you got my drift
"If this is true, then we have a serious problem with the
'certified' results that the outcome of the election was based upon."

This is exactly what the analysis uncovered and why I conclude that it is the "easy way"
to remove the criminals who currently have hold of the reins of power in this country.

The "hard way" is something that I don't think most of the electorate is willing to consider,
never mind set into motion.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Could you pass along a link or two
to a county that doesn't match the State Dept?

We don't need to prove this happened in every county, just a couple of places where this has happened, should be enough to discredit our Lassie from Tallahassee and her 'certified' results.

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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. I would be glad to but...
I think that all of the information, online and otherwise has already been purged.
I went back to several of the county websites after the year 2002 elections and some no longer had
information from 2000.

There were also many counties that did NOT have this data online.
Which is why it became necessary to contact them by fax, letter and telephone.

It is also quite legal for the information to be purged after a period of 22 months.

I was lucky to have been able to get all the data before this legal limit was reached.

I do however have a document that shows all of the differences, county by county. and could email it.

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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #35
72. Reposting due to data loss.
County---------Counted------Counted
----------------Votes--------Votes
----------------(SOE)--------(DOE)

ALACHUA---------85,666-------85,729
BAKER------------8,155--------8,154
BAY-------------58,928-------58,805
BRADFORD---------8,680--------8,673
BREVARD--------218,663------218,395
BROWARD--------573,306------575,143
CALHOUN----------5,178--------5,174
CHARLOTTE-------66,885-------66,896
CITRUS----------57,251-------57,204
CLAY------------57,370-------57,353
COLLIER---------92,122-------92,162
COLUMBIA--------18,513-------18,508
DESOTO-----------7,805--------7,811
DIXIE------------4,666--------4,666
DUVAL----------265,173------264,636
ESCAMBIA-------116,769------116,648
FLAGLER---------27,137-------27,111
FRANKLIN---------4,642--------4,644
GADSDEN---------14,739-------14,727
GILCHRIST--------5,400--------5,395
GLADES-----------3,365--------3,365
GULF-------------6,154--------6,144
HAMILTON---------3,971--------3,964
HARDEE-----------6,237--------6,233
HENDRY-----------8,139--------8,139
HERNANDO--------65,252-------65,219
HIGHLANDS-------35,149-------35,149
HILLSBOROUGH---360,295------360,295
HOLMES-----------7,400--------7,395
INDIAN RIVER----49,622-------49,622
JACKSON---------16,300-------16,300
JEFFERSON--------5,643--------5,643
LAFEYETTE--------2,505--------2,505
LAKE------------88,545-------88,611
LEE------------184,361------184,377
LEON-----------103,237------103,124
LEVY------------12,724-------12,724
LIBERTY----------2,410--------2,410
MADISON----------6,168--------6,162
MANATEE--------110,221------110,221
MARION---------102,656------102,956
MARTIN----------62,013-------62,013
MIAMI-DADE-----625,270------625,449
MONROE----------33,915-------33,887
NASSAU----------23,789-------23,780
OKALOOSA--------70,747-------70,680
OKEECHOBEE-------9,854--------9,853
ORANGE---------280,140------280,125
OSCEOLA---------55,658-------55,658
PALM BEACH-----432,301------433,186
PASCO----------142,731------142,731
PINELLAS-------398,469------398,472
POLK-----------168,585------168,607
PUTNAM----------26,248-------26,222
SANTA ROSA------50,179-------50,319
SARASOTA-------160,940------160,942
SEMINOLE-------137,703------137,637
ST.JOHNS--------60,781-------60,746
ST.LUCIE--------77,989-------77,989
SUMTER----------22,261-------22,261
SUWANEE---------12,462-------12,457
TAYLOR-----------6,808--------6,808
UNION------------3,826--------3,820
VOLUSIA--------183,674------183,653
WAKULLA----------8,587--------8,587
WALTON----------18,332-------18,318
WASHINGTON-------8,024--------8,025

TOTAL--------5,958,688----5,960,623


The difference between these two sets of numbers is 1,935.
(The prior post indicating 1931 was my typo, sorry)

With the DOE indicating a higher count of valid votes.
(Which is really odd in that the DOE "total" does not include
some 1025 write ins that were valid)

How can this be explained?

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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #33
47. Anyone who carefully read your post
got the drift. You were very clear. Thanks for posting this.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #47
55. I don't know about getting any drifts but does this mean we should.....
Edited on Thu Jul-17-03 12:00 PM by nolabels
keep on digging? Seeing' how most that have been on hanging on DU for while have seen the gross falsehoods perpetrated by the corporate media does anybody think there could be just some major or even some minor lines of omission that would lead to much different things?

The skeptic in me says follow the money (especially the paychecks of editors). The Chad fiasco seems like the classic bate and switch
From a search of this on

legitgov.org/index_hot_April5.html
http://www.legitgov.org/mike_replyto_some_hard_facts_071302.html
http://www.legitgov.org/index_hot_April5.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20011126032411/www.miami.com/herald/special/news/flacount/docs/078536.htm

On edit: got rid of link to picture
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. No need to debate.
The numbers speak for themselves.

This issue is at it's heart not about "politics" it is about NUMBERS.

(And the rather simple arithmetic function of addition.)
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preciousdove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kicking this thread for Bev's night crew
Has anyone from Bev's crew contacted you this is exactly what they are looking for. http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

:kick:
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Vadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. Just want to kick this one....
for the night crew!

:kick:

:kick:

:kick:
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-16-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
31. I think Bev would be interested in this
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. Let's...
Kick this up on a regular basis so that all here can see it.
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GayboyBilly Donating Member (177 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. One possible out come of this information
Get that *itch Katherine Harris out of Congress, where she now resides!
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JanMichael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. YES! I live in "her" district and she NEEDS to GO!
The Voter Purge was perpetrated by her and Jethro and is probably the most flagrent abuse of civil rights in 30 years. 85,000 registered voters wrongfully removed from the voter rolls?!

She MUST be held accountable.:mad:
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LiberalTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
100. I was wondering that, too
It won't touch Shrub. He'll wash his hands of any responsibility and get away with it of course. But, I'd love to see that Bitch Katherine Harris fry for this.

Good work!

~Disenfranchised Florida Voter, 2000
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #100
102. Proven in a court of law this...
Would absolutely demolish any hope the shrub had for 04.
Raised to the level of Rico and the fact that he benifitted from a criminal enterprise might just be sufficient to jail the bum.
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
40. Get this information out to select members of congress
Or more importantly, the STAFF of certain members of congress.

ALSO, the DNC (holds nose) would be a good place to contact about this. They have $$$$ to pay for lawyers, etc.

If your material is as important as it sounds, it's vital we get this out so the criminals involved can be caught and prosecuted.

CALL, don't email. And seek advice about who they think you should call.

I think Senator Leahy (202) 224-4242, Senator Byrd (202) 224-3954, Senator Kennedy (202) 224-4543 would be good choices.

Also the DNC - 202-863-8000. I'd contact them and just basically tell them what you have done, what you have and see what their interest is.

WE ALL NEED TO DO OUR PART. Thank you, Ani Yun Wiya, for bringing this to our attention.

We need to form a network on this. If you need help, the DU will help.

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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Contact Gore's Lead Attorney?
These folks might be VERY interested in this

http://www.boies-schiller.com/

David Boies was LEAD COUNSEL for Gore in connection with the Florida vote.
He is a HIGH profile attorney (hopefully) with a chimp on the shoulder over the resutls.

DC office - 202-237-2727

Boises New York office - 212-909-7600
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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Contact the CBC also
The Congressional Black Caucus. They're also upset about the theft.
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mbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #45
66. Bill Moyers would be interested in this too
I am sure!
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #41
53. David Boies should have researched this himself in the first place
I'm not so sure he's the guy for the job.
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donsu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #53
125. I've wondered too which side Boies is really on

and I want to thank Ani for all this work and sticking with it when given the run a round.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #41
54. David Boies should have researched this himself in the first place
I'm not so sure he's the guy for the job.

How about Johnny Cochran?

If the votes don't fit, Bush is in deep shit!!
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CafeToad Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #41
56. Somehow I doubt he'll be interested
unless you pay him well.

I can't find documentation right now, but apparently he's still owed money (or claims to be) for his recount efforts from the Gore campaign and isn't happy about that.

So what's he up to now - well, defending Microsoft against Linux for one:


http://slashdot.org/articles/03/01/22/188234.shtml?tid=
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laylah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
42. Thank you so much
for your hard work.....let's keep this one going. :kick:

jenn
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #42
48. Does anyone know if Bev Harris
has been made aware of this, i was just over at BBV site, and don't see any mention in the messages.

:kick:


dp
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #48
51. Just now seeing this -- amazing work!
Am working on breaking a story right now, and perhaps Monday can deal with this? I will PM the author of this info. Will definitely arrange to get it examined.

Thanks so much.

(By the way, just read that 40 percent of the votes cast in that election were on Diebold machines.)

Would be very interested in finding out more.

Bev Harris
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #51
85. have great info on Seminole county
let me know how to contact you to send info, what happened to private e-mails?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #51
97. machines used
In these 17 counties "Global Election Systems, Inc" were used:

ALACHUA
BREVARD
CALHOUN
CITR;US
COLUMBIA
FLAGLER
HERNANDO
LEON
MANATEE
MONROE
OKALOOSA
PUTNAM
POLK
SEMINOLE
ST.LUCIE
VOLUSIA
WALTON

Were these the Diebold machines?
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #48
86. URGENT, does she have a website
Dweller, Please send link!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #86
91. I found it
eom
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
49. the chad soap opera was a diversion
i always thought the chad problem was a diversion to something bigger, after i found the Black Box Voting scandle i thought that was it... i am sure it still is, this is just more, the state troopers blocking roads into voting areas, etc etc, ..the 'busisness as usual' attitude to illeagle and TREASONIST behavior will be their downfall. the right wing has a 'Theological' drive to achieve their goal.. thats what scares me. their means are justified by their goals, and their goals are nebulous idelic notions, with no well thought out program to achieve them, nor consideration of the consequences if they are wrong. when they fail to actualize their fantacys they blame the liberals...as evil, because they are rightous. therefore 'nothing' they do can be wrong.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #49
88. you are right on
I found some great stuff myself, we need to get it presented in the right way to maximize the impact
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
50. the chad soap opera was a diversion
i always thought the chad problem was a diversion to something bigger, after i found the Black Box Voting scandle i thought that was it... i am sure it still is, this is just more, the state troopers blocking roads into voting areas, etc etc, ..the 'busisness as usual' attitude to illeagle and TREASONIST behavior will be their downfall. the right wing has a 'Theological' drive to achieve their goal.. thats what scares me. their means are justified by their goals, and their goals are nebulous idelic notions, with no well thought out program to achieve them, nor consideration of the consequences if they are wrong. when they fail to actualize their fantacys they blame the liberals...as evil, because they are rightous. therefore 'nothing' they do can be wrong.
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CafeToad Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
52. Do you have a similar analysis for other states?
I think that a similar analysis would be needed for a sampling of other states to draw firm conclusions about fraud.

If memory serves correctly, wasn't there an MIT study that showed that nation-wide, something like 5 to 6 million votes were questionable/uncountable in some way in the year 2000 presidential election. This fact would seem to indicate massive problems, perhaps of the type you have found, and endemic everywhere. Therefore, if you randomly sample states and find no such problems in states where no fraud is suspected (perhaps like Massachusetts and Utah - where the results weren't even close so why bother with hanky-panky) but do find similar problems in close states (such as Tennessee where allegations of election fraud have also arisen) - then you're really onto something.

If, however, you find discrepencies even in states like Massachusetts, then the conclusion would have to be the systems is just massively screwed up, and there's nothing unique (i.e., maliciously fraudulent) about Florida.
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ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #52
60. Good method
The difference between fraud and bad luck is, dare I say it, "intelligent design." Getting all the vote info into a single database sounds like something the academic researchers could take on, if they haven't already begun. Maybe MIT has a lot of this data? Or Stanford? The 22 month expiration date mentioned by Ani Yun Wiya on whatever data is now available (and similar policies elsewhere) makes this urgent.

Making assumptions about the voting patterns, Pobeha did an analysis of the 18181 issue and found that the three-way match was statistically likely, numerological arguments notwithstanding. Real numbers would have been preferred to these estimates, even though they were based on good facts.

If a more complete database of election results were available it would help answer the question of "what happened" in many ways.

Oh, and I had naively assumed that all this stuff was already compiled somewhere. Like the money trail at opensecrets.org or the linkages at namebase.org it seems this public service won't be done by those in charge of public services.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. Why study other states?
It would take alot of time and even more money.
It would also stray from the point.

The whole election was "hinged" on Florida.
Florida also has some deep history when it comes to fraud.
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CafeToad Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. A more detailed explanation . . .
OK, let's consider what's widely acknowledged to have happened in Florida:

There were in the ballpark of 120,000 overvotes, 50,000 undervotes and 80,000 persons who were purged from (or otherwise didn't show up on) the voter registration lists. Altogether there were approximately a quarter of a million people who attempted to vote in Florida but for one reason or another did not have their ballot counted in the presidential race.

Are these voting irregularities an outrage, a smoking gun of something seriously amiss? On the surface, it would sure seem so. But the MIT study revealed that nationwide, approximately 5-6 million ballots were disqualified for one reason or another - or 5-6% of the total. Extrapolated to Florida where 6 million votes were cast, that means that you'd expect, based on national trends, that 250,000 to 300,000 would be invalidated at some point in the process, which is exactly what happened (and perhaps nicely provided cover for nefarious actions of Jeb Bush and his election-stealing minions - I am sure that they were aware of these statistics beforehand and knew what they could get away with, statistically speaking).

Now I realize that none of the above directly impacts your analysis, it should all be left behind once the counties certify their results. If I understand correctly, all Katherine Harris needed to do at this stage was transcribe a set of 70-some numbers and certify them - seemingly not an impossibly difficult task. Therefore the irregularities you uncover would seem to be a smoking gun - OK I buy that - and lets argue that your efforts (BRAVO!) get the Florida results overturned. But then what will happen?

What I'm suggesting will happen is the other side will start engaging in tit-for-tat behavior. New Mexico was very close, for example, I remember it hung in the balance for several days until Gore seemingly miraculously picked up exactly 500 votes to put him over the top. These 500 votes apparently resulted from the initial misreading of a six-hundred-and-some vote tally as a one-hundred-and-some vote tally (the 6 was handwritten to look like a 1). My point is, if upon close examination, will similar county-state certification discrepancies appear in New Mexico as occurred in Florida? If so, the Florida precedent will allow New Mexico's results to be invalidated. Then on to other close states that Gore won, maybe Iowa or Oregon. Sure we can fight back, say Tennessee or New Hampshire - but I can see a real mess ensuing that would drag on long past 2004; perhaps the larger focus should be trouncing the Bush regime at the polls? On the other hand, if you have a county-state analysis from other close states and no discrepancies were found, the Pandora's box just alluded to would not be opened, plus the case for fraud in Florida would be much stronger.

Another way to look at this question (and you may already have the data to answer this) is to look at the county/state certified results for non-presidential races in Florida (say, dog-catcher). If all of these results are spot-on, and only the presidential race is off, that would also be revealing. However, I suspect that the discrepancies would exist throughout the Florida results, either to give cover for fraud in the presidential race or because Katherine Harris is just unbelievably incompetent (note that these two possibilites are not mutually exclusive).
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. No need for more analysis..
"What I'm suggesting will happen is the other side will start engaging in tit-for-tat behavior"

A simple reading of the charts that resulted from the data gathered will pointedly prove the case.
And if the shrub's crew went "tit for tat" they would have ZERO credibility.

Besides there are no "lingering questions" about the other states.

I will look at the other races though to see if the peculiar numbers exist in other florida races.
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CafeToad Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #65
67. OK, thanks for humoring me . . .
I think that upon close examination, this type of irregularity would turn up in many states (btw, this would make the problem you have uncovered all that much more serious).

As far as the shrub's crew having zero credibility - unfortunately they seem to still have high credibility with the corporate-run media, and anything they do will be regarded in a favorable, or at least credible, fashion. If the media was at all responsible, they should be hammering away at what you found, namely:

WHY IS THERE A 4000+ DIFFERENTIAL IN COUNTY AND STATE CERTIFIED RESULTS?

This is a fairly basic and easy to understand issue - you should be able to hire a bunch of fifth-graders (second graders in most states, but I understand there are significant problems with the schools in Florida) to total up these numbers accurately. Perhaps the underlying problem is with the availability of county-certified results - why is this information not freely and permanently available? Why did you have to pull teeth to get it? Is it so that when they send you a fax, they can later deny all knowledge of it? (btw, do you have notarized copies, or something like that, to prove their authenticity?).
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. The documents ARE official
"(btw, do you have notarized copies, or something like that, to prove their authenticity?)."

Yes indeed,county seals and signatures, nothing else would suffice.

I wanted the data to be straight from the horse's mouth because all other sources were shall we say
less than complete.
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CafeToad Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Excellent!
From a strictly legal standpoint (if all was well with the universe), even proof of one county-country certified result being different from the state-certified results should be sufficient to void the whole thing (of course, I'm not a legal scholar - but I was once fortunate enough that one digit of my driver's license number was incorrectly transcribed onto a speeding citation - and the whole citation was consequently ruled void - somehow an election is much more important, and being a stickler for detailed accuracy should also be that much more important).
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kainah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
106. AYW: It might be interesting to check some of those '02 results
Find out if the same thing happened in '02. If it did, it might be easier to get a lawyer interested in challenging one of the '02 results and, through that, opening up the '00 results as well.

Right now, with even the whore media seeming to smell blood around shrub, you might be able to get some press on these numbers. But using an '02 race as initial cover might work better. If nothing else, it would be very interesting if you now do NOT find any variation in the '02 election. You'd think that if it was as common as '00 suggests, you'd still find it in '02.
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-25-03 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #106
117. This would be time consuming to do.
It took me fourteen months to gather, tabulate and review the data from 2000.
And some of the SOE's were, shall we say, somewhat reluctant to send the info, despite the "Sunshine Laws".

I also consider it better to go straight to the root of the matter that resulted in * being where he should not be.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
57. Just a wee little
:kick:

Eloriel
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Good idea....and another
:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-17-03 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
59. This seems too simple to refute
unless I am missing something, but here are my questions:

1. On what date was ALL recounting stopped and official tallies recorded?

2. If all official tallies were set in stone, it seems too easy to find a discrepancy between individual county totals and the DOE's recorded totals, and it seems impossible that any discrepancies would have gone uncorrected.

3. Back to my 1st question- It seems the whole supposition of your claim to fraud is that WHATEVER the condition of ballots is NOW, the fact is on that given date when official recounts stopped, the ballots were tallied in a manner that conflicts with the totals recorded by the DOE.
It simply seems utterly too simple a fraud to discover. :freak:

but again....am I missing something??????
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #59
62. How can this be refuted?
When the recounts stopped has no bearing on the fact that each county legally certified it's totals.
(That is the job and legal responsibility of each SOE)
How can the DOE turn around and certify and report an entirely different set of numbers?

For each county I did the following:

Wrote down the number of total ballots cast,
Subtracted the total number of ballots not counted (unders and overs)
Wrote down the result.

Then I added up the votes tallied for each candidate.
Then compared the result with the number from the operation stated above.

In every county the number from the first operation was the same as the number for the second
operation.

When I attempted to do the same thing with the DOE numbers this was NOT the case.

It was not at all possible to reconcile the DOE numbers with the SOE numbers.

How would anyone explain that?
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #62
95. Much better answer, and YES, it is inexplicable
unless you accept the fact that DOE lied. Thanks a million trillion!
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-18-03 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
63. Big Kick !!! --- Thank You Ani !!!
:kick::kick::kick:
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
70. Will add more later
Looks like about 24 responses were lost.
Will repost numeric info, county by county differences.
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Clete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-22-03 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Needs another
:kick:
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Phatfish Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #71
77. kick
n/t
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
73. Ani Yun Wiya, you're right! (repost lost info)
At least for Alachua County. The numbers don't match.

---------------

http://elections.alachua.fl.us/results/20001107.html

Republican
George W. Bush
Dick Cheney 34062 39.76%

Democratic
Al Gore
Joe Lieberman 47300 55.21%

---------------

http://election.dos.state.fl.us/elections/resultsarchive/downloadresults.asp?ElectionDate=11/7/00&DATAMODE=

(Link to the following downloaded information)


11/7/00 DEM Democrat PRE President of the United States ALA Alachua 53
Lieberman Gore / 47365


11/7/00 REP Republican PRE President of the United States ALA Alachua 53
Cheney Bush 34124


Maybe there is a reasonable explaination for why the county's official numbers and the states official numbers don't add up. But you would think that something as simple as final counts would at least match. O would love to know what the hell is going on here.



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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. How can it be explained....
Edited on Wed Jul-23-03 09:51 AM by Ani Yun Wiya
There are only five counties where all the numbers agree.
In some the numbers are higher in some they are lower.
And it doesn't seem to matter if the county was democratic, republican, or independent. when it came to the party affiliation of the SOE.

I think what happened is that the moment James Baker popped up the issue became narrowly focused on who won, * or Gore and what should have been at issue was the validity of the process itself.

There is no way to arrive at "who won" because the process itsself was corrupted by K. Harris and the * crew.
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #74
81. Ani, I have some info
Did you note the Seminole county data? Do you know about precinct 28? I also just recently sent stuff to Palast's office. I did my own analysis of that county.

Please reply ASAP
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #73
89. Amazing! Need to know why numbers do match NOW!
This thread is so amazing. It is so subtle. Scream about recounts and hanging chads then jack around the numbers for each country to ensure the numbers tip to Bush by the slightest margin at the State Certification done by Katherine Harris.

Please media open this up again! Why are the numbers different. If there is a logical explanation it must be known.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #73
108. I'm confused
What dates are on the Alachua County totals.

I see 11/07 on the DOS totals.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. The copy I have
Doesn't show a posting date. It just says Election Results for November 7, 2000.

Do you have a link to the file that you are referring to?
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
75. dates and amendments
I have a question:

After the Supreme Court Ruling, Harris and her Office rushed to "certify" the results of the election. The certification was based on the counts certified to the Secretary of State as of a certain date. Were any amendments made to the county certified totals after that date? Did the County Officials update or amend their initial reports?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 06:20 AM
Response to Reply #75
79. Dates and amendments.
Edited on Thu Jul-24-03 06:22 AM by Ani Yun Wiya
I just spent a couple of hours reviewing the data that I received from the county SOE's.
The majority of the paperwork I have is precinct level and most but not all were machine generated with dates of 11/7, 11/8 and 11/9.

There were a few with final dates of 11/17 or 11/18 and one with a final date of 11/24.

So my answer would be that no official county certification occured after 11/24.

There is also the consideration that there is a legal 10 day period allowed for canvassing the overseas ballots.

All of the counties supplied their official, final tallies of all requested information and I cannot comprehend how the State DOE totals were different.


Edited for spelling.
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ewagner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #79
116. Thanks AYW
I'm trying to find a link to the timeline of the election debacle itself. I remember something strange about Harris's rush to certify the election figures right after the SCOTUS ruling. I also remember she tried to hijack the process early on by not allowing an extension of time for counties to complete the recounts. The result of that ruling, as you well know were chaotic. I also remember that she said she wouldn't accept amended results after that deadline.

The reason I'm looking at this is because I think you've touched the tip of the scandal. I think Harris essentially "cherrypicked" the date on which to certify. That's the only reason for it. If I find anything I'll send it along.

Congrats on some outstanding accounting work...I think its called forensic accoutning.
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ShimokitaJer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
76. Kick
Love this thread. It's a great companion piece to Bev Harris' stuff. Thanks for the hard work, Ani.
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-23-03 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
78. Should send a brief of this to the European press.
nt
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MessiahRp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
80. Okay so you have the info...
You have the info, you've been told by a member of Kennedy's staff that it is "actionable", but just getting the info to the public is not enough. You have to make it "actionable" by taking action. Are you working on opening any suits against Harris and her Elections Department for fraud?

If nothing is done from a legal standpoint this would be useless and dismissed by the Conservative run media (not that it won't be anyways). A judge may realize what the American public cannot because most people don't seem to have a will of their own that isn't controlled by morons like Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity.

Rp
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #80
90. By posting here...
I was looking to see what kind of response it would get.
Some of the posters gave me good ideas about where to send the info.

If I was not stone cold broke AND unemployed, I would have filed a suit in Florida over a year ago, when I concluded the process of gathering the information.

If I had a million bucks I would simply buy space in a certain set of newspapers and run the most telling of the charts derived from the data supplied by the SOE's and in LARGE type pose the question GOT FRAUD?
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #90
92. Ani, what did you think of Seminole?
precinct 28, do you know what I'm talking about?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #92
96. Tell me.
What details about this precinct are you talking about?
Send a pm and I'll take a look.
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #80
93. Problem seems to be that that kind of
lawyer exists only in Hollywood made movies... Are there left-overs from the voters' protests. After all, it's they who have been wronged. In some counties, apparently, some people had their vote thrown away, which is a violation of their constitutional rights.
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Orangepeel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
87. You should send it to Rep. Wexler
related DU post


Washington DC Office

213 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-3001
(202) 225-5974 FAX

Palm Beach County Office

2500 North Military Trail
Suite 100
Boca Raton, FL 33431
(561) 988-6302
(561) 988-6423 FAX

Broward County Office

Margate City Hall
5790 Margate Blvd
Margate, FL 33063
(954) 972-6454
(954) 974-3191 FAX
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
94. kick
eom
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
99. Good companion piece to Diebold story....kickity kick...
:kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick::kick:

:kick::kick::kick:


:kick:


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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
103. refresh my memory...
Edited on Thu Jul-24-03 06:45 PM by GloriaSmith
After the SC declared Bush the winner and the individual newspapers decided to go down and count chads, did they compare their own findings with numbers provided by the State or by the districts? I know hind sight is 20/20 and all...but damn it would have been nice if just one invistigative reporter checked her/his numbers with both sources.

Regardless, I hope Katherine was laying awake at night sweating bullets when the reporters were down there. Makes me curious as to what her phone records looked like during that time period.

edit: spelling as usual
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linazelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
110. A lot of Bush's numbers were down....
What would be interesting to note is the percentages down or up of Gore vs. Bush as well as the totals up or down.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
112. check out posts #107 & #111
:shrug: and tell me what you think.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
113. another little
:bounce:
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fshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #113
114. Why do we have to kick this?
nt
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-24-03 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. why not?
nt
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Romberry Donating Member (632 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
120. This is a...
...bump.
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Flamingo Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
122. Fraud
YES! .....and in the words of Bob Kunst....."Investigate, Investigate, Investigate, Invetigate, Investigate.................
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #122
123. kick
eom
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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #122
124. Wouldn't it be cool if the Supreme Court could be asked to reopen 2000
...asked to reopen the case on the 2000 ballot on the grounds of new evidence. Palast alone ought to be enough. But Ani could well be on to something here... It seems to me that what Ani is talking about here (see the most embedded thred above) is extremely consistent with the phenomena we are talking about with GEMS the DRE and Diebold...

Even if it is mainly ES&S

Someone in one of the other threads complained that there is simply no-body to complain to in Florida. Surely that can't be true.
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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. David Boies
FYI:

David Boies was a major parner at James Baker III's law firm -- Baker Botts in Houston. You know, the firm defending the Saudis against the 9/11 widows. I'd stay away from Boies.


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althecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #126
127. Sorry RedSock... I do not understand...
What has this guy got to do with reopening complaints about 2000 in FLorida on the basis of new evidence?
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #127
128. You are right
Why should this require a high paid attorney.
Any competent legal aid should be able to do this.
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waggawagga Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-26-03 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. Absentee Ballots
I don't want to spoil a good theory but did you account for overseas absentee ballots? If you remember there was this period from November 7 to November 26 when ballots from overseas were still being counted (and challenges were being accepted to those already included in the totals). The total number of "late" ballots received for both candidates was just over 2,400.

So if you're contrasting the numbers compiled by the DOE before November 26 and those certified by the counties after this date the discrepancies would make sense (the adjusted totals reflect the addition, and in some cases subtraction, of these overseas ballots).

The last FLSC ruling was sloppy in that it just accepted the numbers they were given (Harris, after November 26, I think, treated these overseas absentees as if they belonged to some different category, the FLSC did this as well). I'll be surprised if the explenation isn't something this simple, though.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #129
130. The indentation at the bottom of a bottle is a
Kick
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Ani Yun Wiya Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-27-03 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #129
131. Yes, the absentee ballots were included county by county.
From post 13:

1. Total ballots cast
2. Total votes for each candidate.
3. Total under votes, total over votes, absentees and overseas.

The odd thing about the absentee ballots is that DOE found 2,490 and an AP analysis found 2,130.

I would have to spend some time looking at the data to detemine what the total is that the SOE's found in this category.

One thing is quite clear.
When you take the numbers from the SOE's and subract the "uncounted" from the total cast, the result is the total of "votes counted" and this does not happen when you use the numbers from the DOE.

If the DOE does not get it's numbers from the SOE's where do their numbers come from?

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