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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 11:18 PM
Original message
Kerry Honored with Kennedy Foundation's Distinguisheshed American Award.
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 12:06 AM by paineinthearse
Just got back from the John F. Kennedy Library where John Kerry was honored with the Distinguished American Award from the Kennedy Library Foundation.

The event will be broadcast on CSPAN at a later date. Check the schedule at www.cspan.org (not listed yet). Also check http://www.jfklibrary.org/forum_menu.html for transcript and audio/video.

The evening was divided into two segments, the bestowing of the award and question/answer period with Tom Oliphant.

Greetings were extended by former DNC chair Paul Kirk, followed by laudatory remarks via telephone by scheduled guest Ted Kennedy, who left Boston early due to the winter's 5th blizzard for DC in order to be Tuesday morning floor manager for S.218 (bankruptcy). Kennedy waxed about his years of friendship with the Kerry, beginning when he sought out the Massachusetts contingent Winter Soldiers who were camped on the DC mall.

Kerry joked that when Boston is hit by five blizzards over one winter, they Dems will sweep the next election. He returned the reminiscence and lauded Kennedy for being his mentor and friend in the Senate for 21 years.

The second part of the evening was the interview by Thomas Oliphant, asking questions from the audience as well as his own.

A couple of the better quotes:

"There is nothing in the presidents budget that is either truthful or makes sense. Nothing. The war is not included in the President's budget, the social security fix is not included in the President's budget..."

"The question today is how we are going to put on the table the real choices for the American people and achieve accountability in American politics..."

Kerry pledged to be an activist and advocate for traditional Democratic values.

Kerry faulted Bush for not working with foreign heads of state towards a solution in Iraq. Specifically, he stated that during a conversation with President Mubarik, he learned that Egypt was willing to train hundreds/thousands more police/soliders, but had not been asked by *.

Kerry used the most politically incorrect language in describing Bushs tenure and policies. Language like failure and the first action of the second term was a conciliatory trip to Europe to mend damage done (Im paraphrasing).

Kerry cut into the main stream media, somewhat. He tied todays situation to corporate control. Whenever he went a bit deep, he brought himself to even keel (on the whole, I think the main stream media tried to present a fair assessment of both sides of the campaign"), but at one point declared there was an insidious underlying element that was responsible for maintaining a level of fear and distraction. Blamed unfair media reporting on the demise of the Fairness in Broadcasting Act, but did not say he would work to restoring it.

On the 2004 campaign, he said the Dems were at a disadvantage, having just a few months versus Roves 6+ years. Related, towards 2008, he said that the Dems need to continue the grassroots efforts started by his campaign, but needed to focus on the 2006 midterms.

I heard no real revelations during the rest of the Q&A period. My question about details of the recent suits filed in Ohio (see FYI) was not read.

On exiting, I had a chance to speak with Paul Kirk. Told him the difficulty I was having connecting my town committee with the state and national committee. He advised not to wait for top-down leadership, rather to act locally, to make the town committee a model of grassroots activism, and the state would come knocking.

A moving night, wish you all could have been there.


Paul G. Kirk, chairman of the John F. Kennedy Library Foundation, left, shakes hands with Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., after Kirk gave him the Distinguished American Award Monday, Feb. 28, 2005, at the library, in Boston. Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., not pictured, presented the award to Kerry via teleconference. (AP Photo/Steven Senne)


================================================================
http://www.jfklibrary.org/calendar.html



A Conversation with Senator John Kerry
Monday, February 28, 2005, 5:30-7:00 p.m.
Senator Kerry, the Democratic nominee for President of the United States will receive the distinguished American Award from the Kennedy Library Foundation. He will share his thoughts on U.S. policies both home and abroad with Pulitzer Prize winning Boston Globe columnist Tom Oliphant.
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elshiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you! I posting this in the John Kerry Forum.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. Video
Edited on Mon Feb-28-05 11:56 PM by paineinthearse
http://www.boston.com/news/necn/New_England /

Scroll down to "Kerry Receives Kennedy American Award."
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. That is really cool
Thank you for posting it. It's times like these that I hate living out here in hobunkville where nothing like that ever happens. What a wonderful evening.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks, paineinthearse!
I found his comments about the media most interesting. It's nice to hear that he publicly acknowledged the corporate control problem in the media.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Great event
Glad to see this. :) And I too am glad he at least is speaking out more about things. Maybe Dean is inspiring people? :) If the SBV people can get awarded surely Kerry can. :) :toast:
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pauliedee Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. Kerry a GREAT leader
He deserves this award!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Boston Herald
http://news.bostonherald.com/politics/view.bg?articleid...

Kerry says Bush Amtrak cuts way off the track
By Kimberly Atkins
Tuesday, March 1, 2005

Sen. John F. Kerry last night slammed President Bush's plan to cut federal support to the fiscally strapped Amtrak passenger rail system, calling the proposed budget cut ``incomprehensible.''
Kerry, accepting an award for public service from the Kennedy Library Foundation, said the president's plan to zero out Amtrak must be derailed by Congress - and vowed to lead the fight.

Calling the move one of several ``backwards'' steps resulting from White House policies, the Bay State senator said the focus should instead be on building high-speed railway systems to support the industry and create jobs. The Bush administration says the proposal is a way to cut government losses at Amtrak by privatizing parts of the rail service and eliminating routes that do not turn a profit.

In a sweeping indictment of the president's policies from the podium before a friendly audience in Boston, Kerry also took aim at the president's policies on child care, the environment, international relations and health care, declaring, ``Health care is not a faith-based initiative.'' Kerry emphasized what he views as positive results of his losing White House bid last year, saying the presidential election brought out some 10 million more Democratic voters than President Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign.

Calling his bid ``the largest grassroots effort in history,'' Kerry said, ``We made states more blue than they were before.''
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Dr Ron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for posting
I hope you don't mind that this was copies over onto the Unofficial Kerry Blog (with link to here) at: http://kerryblog.blogspot.com/
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The poster asked my OK, all is well.
The only MSM coverage of this (so far) is video from NECN and a 250 word piece in the Herald.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks Paininthearse!
Awesome! Absolutely awesome! Go JK!

I love Thomas Oliphant, one of my favorite columnists.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. BU student newspaper - Kerry talks politics at JFK
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 12:00 PM by paineinthearse
Isn't it interesting that the only MSM coverage has been by the Boston Herald, and they foucsed on the AMTRAK angle. Not one word by the Boston Globe, whose reporter interviewed Senator Kerry, AP, Reuters, etc!!!

In searching for MSM coverage of this significant event, the only piece I found is from the Boston University student newspaper, The Daily Free Press.

The Daily Free Press (ISSN 1094-7337), the independent student newspaper at Boston University, is published Monday through Friday during the academic year except during vacation and exam periods by Back Bay Publishing Co., Inc., a nonprofit Massachusetts corporation operated by Boston University students. The paper was founded on May 5, 1970 by BU students.

Mods - this is posted in its entirity with the approval of the editor, Patrick Gillooly. It is done so because of lack of MSM coverage.

=================================================================

http://www.dailyfreepress.com/news/2005/03/01/News/Kerr...

The Daily Free Press - News
Issue: 3/1/05

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Kerry talks politics at JFK
By Greg Hellman

Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) criticized the media, blasted President George W. Bush's tax and foreign policies and discussed his own presidential ambition in a public discussion with Boston Globe columnist Thomas Oliphant at the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library Monday night.

Kerry criticized the mainstream media for contributing to an atmosphere of fear and lies.

"There is something wrong with who is arbitrating the truth," he said. "When fear is dominating the discussion, we have a problem."

Kerry said news conglomerates -- particularly of broadcast news -- were a large part of the problem.

"The corporatization of the media has taken away some of the muckraking," he said.

Kerry also criticized politicians, calling on Washington to increase accountability for decisions.

"The question is how we're going to create accountability in American politics," he said. "We had a saying: My country, right or wrong, when right, keep it right; when wrong, make it right."

Calling Bush's wartime tax cuts a "middle-class squeeze," Kerry said the administration offered too many breaks to the upper class while decreasing benefits for the average family, particularly when it came to education.

"The tax burden of the middle class went up, while the education burden has gone up simultaneously," he said.

Many of the economic dangers facing the United States, however, originate from outside its borders, he said.

"China is growing stunningly. India is growing stunningly," he said. "Production has saved us for a long time but that's diminishing. We've got a problem and that's why so many people on Wall Street are so worried."

In wake of such changes, Kerry called on the Bush Administration to reach out more to the international community and adapt to the forces of globalism.

"This is a moment of unbelievable global opposition, and you look at this as an administration who had to make a repair trip after the first four years," he said. "I think we are a world leader still and the world is waiting."

On the issue of healthcare, the former presidential candidate said religion too often clouded Bush's policies.

"Healthcare is not a faith-based initiative," he said. "It's a right and it's long overdue."

Kerry blamed record budget deficits and Bush's tax cuts for the impending overhaul of Social Security.

"You look at the choices we're facing now with Social Security, but the tax cut that was made permanent over the next 10 years is three times the Social Security gap over that time period," he said.

Kerry said he has not yet considered a second bid for presidency in the 2008 election and preferred to concentrate on the 2006 Congressional elections.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. SS & the tax cut
I do not know why the Democratic Party isn't screaming about this. We traded our paltry little tax cuts for social security solvency, and so much more. They're using our FICA to pay the bills, while the rich pay a lower tax rate than we do.

"You look at the choices we're facing now with Social Security, but the tax cut that was made permanent over the next 10 years is three times the Social Security gap over that time period," he said."
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Surprised nothing more from Boston newpapers
Maybe they'll have it tomorrow.

Great coverage from the Daily Free Press!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Maybe
The Globe appears to have a policy to not post anything "breaking" during the day. They completely update their site at midnight. Must have been too close to deadline last night (I got out well after 8).
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I agree with kerrygoddess. The Globe will cover it.
Doesn't Oliphant work for the Globe?
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Not a bad piece from the Boston Herald actually...
I was surprised to see they said Kerry "slammed" Bush. Nice quote about turning more states blue, too.

Kerry: We Made States More BLUE Than They Were Before
1 March 2005

The Boston Herald has a brief story on Kerry receiving the Distinguished American Award last night from the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library.

The Herald reports that Kerry emphasized the positive results of his campaign, including the fact that the presidential election brought out some 10 million more Democratic voters than President Bill Clinton's 1996 re-election campaign. Kerry called his campaign the largest grassroots effort in history, and said, We made states more blue than they were before.

More - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view...
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Can you believe how candidly he spoke about the media!
I'd like to see all the Democrats speaking out about the media.

I'm sure he feels there is a corporate hold on the elections process, as well, but speaking out about it would be counterproductive at this point. The fact that his lawyers filed the Ohio lawsuit tells me he's doing what he can to gather evidence while protecting his credibility against "sore loser" undermining by the corporate media.

After making the tax cuts permanent for the next 10 years, this administration and its cabal of congresspeople want to drive the social security system off the cliff, too.

I'm glad to see that Kerry is continuing to speak out against this administration. We're just not seeing his message get out very often.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm happy too
And of course the MSM wouldn't cover it. If they would it'd be like a two/three minute thing. It doesn't go for their agenda that's the Bush administration's agenda. :eyes: I'm glad he and Howard Dean are being leaders when we need them.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
15. So why did he receive this award?
For running a half hearted campaign, one in which he was outmanuevered at every turn by Bushco and their sycophants, and ultimately lost? For being another "me too" Democrat for the past five years, during which he was in favor of the illegal, immoral war in Iraq, bent us all over for the Patriot Act, screwed the elderly with his no show concerning the prescription drug bill, mortaged away our childrens' future by voting for the NCLB Act?

Sorry, but I frankly don't think that Kerry deserved this award at this point in time. Being the losing Democratic candidate against a sitting President who has screwed over this country as badly as Bush has isn't something to be proud of. Kerry should have won this election going away, yet he botched it horribly. Yes, there was fraud and theft in the campaign, but it took the Greens and Nader to bring such issues to the attention of the public, Kerry was very silent on this matter until it was too late.

Kerry simply doesn't deserve this award. I'm sure JFK is rolling his eyes, if not spinning in his grave.
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kerrygoddess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Maybe he recieved it because he's a far better person that some...
who feel that they are justified in bashing him. JFK maybe rolling his eyes, but it's not over JK... if anything he is rolling his eyes over the vitrol that some spew about John Kerry.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I agree
Kerry did have faults in his campaign and he has learned from them I'm sure. He's still out in the public and his actions as of late are still going along with what he said and promised in his campaigns. I'm glad he won this award.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Isn't it funny how affective the rethugs spin has been - even our
own buy their party line and the RW distortion that Rove and his minions have perpetuated as the truth! You just want to ask the naysayers and Kerry bashers "how does it feel to be roved?"

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yes, somehow it is the mysterious power of the Rove
That makes me believe that Kerry voted for the IWR, and every single funding bill that continues this illegal, immoral war. That Rovian power also makes me believe that Kerry voted for the Patriot Act, and NCLB, and was a no show on the prescription drug bill, all the while Kerry was really doing none of these things :eyes: Whatever.

Look friend, a lot of people voted for Kerry simply because he wasn't Bush. It doesn't mean that we actually liked the man, it means that the situation was grave, and that Kerry was the lesser of two evils. Quite frankly Kerry is simply another goddamn corporate whore, selling out the American people at the behest of his corporate masters. That isn't being "Roved", or buying into the Bushco spin, it is recognizing the truth of the matter in our current political plight. We are faced with the two party/same corporate master system of government, and for liberals to continue to go about blindly accepting partisan propaganda simply because it issues from the party that they identify with just feeds that beast which is going to consume us all. It is time for you and many others to wake the hell up and realize that we are all being bipartisanly sold down the river.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Don't call me your friend, just as I would have problems having
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 02:42 PM by merh
a friend that is pure RW, your hate for Kerry and the democratic party is just as distasteful and destructive, so I would not ever consider you a friend.

You are blind to politics and the political system and your blindness causes you to stumble over your idealistic and flawed principles.

Do I wish there was another system to provide citizens to help govern this nation? Yes, I often wonder if my professor in college wasn't correct in his position that all of our social security numbers should be put in a huge raffle basket and every four years the first number that falls from the basket serves as president and on and on until all offices are filled. Then each citizen will be required to take part in our government and will be responsible for our laws. That, however, is not the case and we have a political system that makes running for office expensive, complicated and nuanced!

I will not debate Kerry's vote on the resolution that provided for Military Action in Iraq, I have done that until I am blue in the fingers on this forum. I am of the position that Kerry voted to give the president authority if all diplomatic measures failed. That is not carte blanche approval as you and others like to depict. Kerry has voted to fund the war - well sorry, but as long as we have soldiers over there fighting, I want them to have the necessary armor and equipment, so you don't make me mad when you say he has voted for the funding. As a matter of fact, his biggest flip-flop problem came when he voted against additional funding for the war because he had a problem with where the funding would come from.

NCLB, it's not a bad act, there is just no f'cking funding to allow the state school systems to implement it. That's the problem and that goes back to the boy blunder's tax cuts. Kerry's tax plan would have alleviated the strains that our state, county and local governments all are experiencing due to the boy blunder's payola for votes - tax cuts.

Patriot Act, well, if it had been me, I probably would have been more aware of its implications and potential to destroy our civil rights, but then again, I am just a lay person and I am not fully capable of understanding that the unconstitutional provisions of the bill would be defeated by the judicial branch (as they have been) and that judicial approval is still required to obtain the warrants and the "sneaky peps" that the bill provides. But then again, I wasn't in Washington DC on 9/11 and I did not have to evacuate my office because of anthrax. I also was not being given all sorts of "intelligence" letting me know that the powers that be (pentagon, cia, admin) all believed and wanted me to believe that we were in great peril and legislation was vital to secure our safety. The smoke and mirrors that the weed and his rethugs used to convince the nation of the "terra threat" were first used in private conferences with members of congress to convince them. It is a damned shame that you are so naive or worse, so damned perfect you cannot see the human side to all that has occurred since 9/11.

If you think it is so easy to be a politician and to hold office then I suggest you go out and qualify for the next elected office you can. I would suggest the federal house or senate, but if that is more than you are ready for, then try for a local office first. Find out how hard it is to raise money, campaign, conduct campaigns, trust everyone around you, hold tight to your principles and finally get enough votes to win. Then, if by chance you win, find out what it is like to get your legislation passed and/or necessary funding for your district or state without compromising. Find out how important a nuanced appreciation for the lesser of two evils really is.

Let me know when you get your campaign up and running, I will gladly donate to your campaign.

In closing, I stand by what I said. You were Roved and you drank the kool aid and you continue to believe the spin. I would put Kerry's 30 plus years of service to this country and his honor and his intelligence up against anyone you would name as a better politician and/or candidate.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Speaking of Rovian like spin, well friend, you're reaching those heights
Especially when you skirt the edges of calling me a winger. That's truly funny, in a sad, sort of pathetic way. You really want to, but don't want to get busted, LOL.

Look, I call you friend, as a call all on this board and elsewhere, as a show of respect and courtesy, you know, good liberal traits. You don't like it, TS, you will have to deal with it, since it has become a habit and is pretty ingrained.

And quite frankly, I will stack my thirty plus years of liberal and Democratic creds up against yours any day. Campaigns run, work performed, money contributed, doors knocked on, etc. etc. ad nauseum. I think I've earned the right to bitch about a party that I see driving over the cliff.

And your defense of Kerry is laughable. Boil it all down, and what you are left saying in essence is "I don't know why Kerry voted as he did, but I'm going to defend the indefensible." "Name somebody who can do better" and "Damnit MadHound, you're a tool" Well friend, many people around here (rightfully)bitch about DINOs such as Miller and Lieberman whose voting record during the past five years is positively PNACish. Well guess what, Kerry's record closely mirrors both of those men, and quite a few Republicans as well.

You say that I'm a Rovian tool because I criticize Kerry for his abhorrent voting record. That's funny friend, for if you would read my posts you would find that I'm not working for either "side" in this two party/same corporate master system of government we are saddled with. I'm working towards making real change in society, not just a faux change. You see friend, it is the two party/same corporate master system of government and its supporters that are the real problem in this country. I would suggest you read Kevin Phillips book "Wealth and Democracy", along with Howard Zinn's "Peoples' History of the United States" to get a better perspective on what is going on in this country. Perhaps then you will wake up and see exactly what this bill of goods is that we've been sold. Until then, you will simply remain part of the problem.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. It is folks like you that complain about things but don't do a damn
thing to change them. To change a system, you have to work from within and correct its flaws, not stand outside and complain about it. And I would put my years of experience in campaigns and for civil rights up against your's any day. You can shake hands, work with campaigns, solicit money and go door to door but that is not being a candidate and putting your life where your mouth is. Take on the job and then tell me how great your service has been.

My defense of Kerry, as you put, is not a defense of the man, he doesn't need me to defend him as his record speaks for itself and it is a good record. I did try to explain to you why he may have voted as he did. As I am not in his head, I am just trying to use a little empathy. It appears that you have no desire to understand anything because you are a perfect creature and only your views are correct. So have fun deluding yourself into believe that your simple minded ways will affect a change.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
55. You have no fucking clue as to who I am, what I've done,
Or how much I've worked in politics, now do you. Yet you feel the right to say that I "don't do a damn" What the fuck ever friend.

Like I've said before, I'll stack my thirty plus years of political experience against yours anyday. And it is much more than raising money and glad handing, but hey, those don't count hmm!

As far as your second part, well of course you're not speaking for Kerry, and no, you can't really get inside his head. But as somebody has said on this thread, actions speak louder than words, and it looks like you're defending the indefensible.

Two party/same corporate master system of government. What'cha going to do about it?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
80. If you really worked in politics or held a political or public office
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 05:56 PM by merh
you would not be dissing a man who has dedicated his life as a public servant and has held office for 30 plus years. You could not be ridiculing someone with Kerry's record if you actually knew what is entailed in holding office and making a difference. He has done both and both with honor. To fall for the spin of the right or the ideals of the libs is to live in a false sense of reality.

Raising money and glad handling do not count and/or compare to holding office and doing the job. That's like saying I pay to watch a football game and have been to hundreds over the years so I am as talented as any athlete on the field. Wrong - hold office - hell run for office - put your reputation and life out there, let your family be ridiculed, your past dragged up and every little mistake you or your Aunt Sal or cousin Bob did be brought into the light of day.

Have your family tormented, your honor and service called in to question, your wife or husband ridiculed, then maybe, just maybe you will reach a level that is close to comparable to Kerry.

I am not defending the indefensible, you are - you have no clue as to the realities of politics and while living in your comfortable world of principles you close your eyes to the simple fact -- it ain't that f'ckin simple.

Kerry's record does not need to be defended.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
44. Kerry's record in no way mirror's Lieberman or Miller. I defy you to show
their voting records and fairly. Kerry is a liberal. About the only votes you could point to are the war votes and if you are a one issue voter, and if that is your only issue, too bad.As another poster stated that vote has been explained continuously. For the record, I didn't agree to with it. But there is more that needs to be fixed in the world than one vote.
If you don't start recognizing the truth about people, you will continue to be part of the problem. Pity, as I think I could agree with you on many points and many politicians but you are dead wrong and biased about Kerry.
And BTW, you creds do give you the right to bitch, and I will defend your right to do it. I have the same creds and more and I defend my right to disagree with you!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. Nice callouses you have there
One issue voter indeed. Hundreds of thousands of innocents dying, "too bad". ". . .more that needs to be fixed in the world than one vote." so sad.

No friend, I'm much more than a one issue voter, probably vastly more than you are, but with innocents dying on a daily basis, yeah, death tends to take priority.

Oh, and who else voted for NCLB and the Patriot Act? Lieberman, Miller, Kerry, amongst others.

Two party/same corporate master system of government. That is the real problem friend, think about it.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #59
69. And I ask you again, who is fit to garner your support?
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 05:09 PM by saracat
We can tear almost anyone apart with criticism, but who do you think of any party , anywhere ,that is worth your supporting? If you can't think of anyone , you have no solutions. And BTW, just whining and saying you'll turn Green isn't good enough. Give us a name, even they are Green , that could win.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Well, in the last election cycle
I was supporting Kucinich in the primaries. You know, voted against the war, wasn't taking corporate cash. I still do like him, and if he runs in '08, I'll support him. As far as the Greens go, Cobbs is OK, and really, quite frankly, anybody who is Green is alright. After all, they don't support the war, and they don't take coporate cash. And corporate cash is what is destroying our government.
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. If you were interested in the real world
you'd know that no candidate, in any party, takes corporate cash, it's illegal.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. The facts don't seem to matter to you. Your comment is untrue.
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 05:41 PM by cestpaspossible
Truth, falsehood -- there is a difference, you know.

BTW, you failed to respond to post 67, where I asked you to explain why you knowingly posted a different falsehood.


Don't you think these false notes would tend to make your comments not seem credible? If you would at least try to defend your comments and make the case you don't have the intention to deceive, you might be taken more seriously.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #86
91. So you are saying that the Democratic party
And most Democratic candidates don't take corporate cash? Is that what you're saying? Please tell me that is what you're saying, for you know as well as I do that you're full of it on this, and gee, I'll get to break out my reference books when I get home(in about an hour) and drill you on this. C'mon man, I've heard of going down with the ship, but even you know better than this. Here, I've got to be going, here's about 691,000 hits you can check in the meantime. <http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=corporate+cash+in+the+... >

Cya
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. What I'm talking about is reality.
In reality, corporate contributions are illegal, any campaign who takes corporate contributions is breaking the law, and the reason you talk about 691,000 hits that don't actually back up what you are saying instead of pointing to a single example that does, is because what you are saying is untrue.

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #76
82. And doesn't have a bats chance in hell. I love Kucinich's views
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 05:36 PM by saracat
but he is terrifically unappealing and one of the worlds worst speakers. I have met him, and interviewed him. I have heard him debate live as well as heard him in news conferences. He can't win. So , as long as you feel you are righteous, the rest of us can go hang. Nice. And you call ME callous.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. LOL friend, so we must have the perfectly coifed candidate
Who loves that corporate cash. Whatever. Lincoln was a horrible speaker, tended to talk to his chest in a high squeaky voice, but gee, look what he did. Talk about fucking superficial.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #85
88. Lincoln didn't have television to contend with. Or much photography.
or radio. Television has been influncing the electorate since Kennedy /Nixon. Superficial/ I guess if wanting to win is superficial, I am superficial. You can't accomplish anything if you don't win. Again, you have no solutions.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. Look friend
ALOT of people voted for Kerry because of his character, intelligence and vision. And ALOT of people aren't considering a left wing lunatic for the candidate in 2008 either. Hillary just polled at the top of the heap. It definitely is time for some people to wake the hell up, but it isn't the ones who voted FOR Kerry.
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pauliedee Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Kerry almost overcame huge disadvantages
He will win in 2008.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #36
61. Yeah, great, just what we fucking need, another Clinton
Somebody who is more sound than substnace, another GD warmonger. And you expect me to be excited about this. If it comes down to Hillary and whoever, yes, I'll be voting Green. Cripes, another corporate whore, former Goldwater Girl, willing to follow her husband in outsourcing jobs, and destroying our social safety net. Yeah, that's aa real winning ticket friend. :eyes:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. So who should wake up?
I don't like Hillary either, but don't tell us who should wake up when Hillary is the one polled to run in 2008. Most people don't support the Green agenda and that's just the way it is. Thinking Democrats gave you the most liberal candidate we could who would have a chance to win, and it still wasn't good enough. Cutting off your nose to spite your face, that's all the Green Party is about. It's easy to rant when you never have to be responsible to implement solutions.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. Most people don't know the Green agenda
They simply mouth the mindless mush propaganda that both the 'Pugs and Dems feed them. Hell, talk about colusion, the Dems and 'Pugs team up every four years to keep the Greens and others out of the debates. What the hell are they afraid of, somebody who is willing to make a real difference?

And speaking of cutting of your nose, etc., what do you think the Dems are doing as they drift ever rightward in search of that 'Pug lite vote? Hell, do you realize that the largest group of liberals and progressives in this country don't vote? They see no real answer in the Dems, but interestingly enough, now that the Greens have got a little momentum going, they're becoming active again.

Hell, I'd even be happy if the Greens get the same kind of insluence that the Socialists had in the thirties. During FDR's first re-election run, he was scared of the Socialists nicking off enough voters to cost him the election. So what did he do? He went out and stole a couple of Socialist planks, unemployment insurance and Social Security. Two of the most popular programs ever. So gee, third parties can have a major influence, who'da thunk.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #77
90. FDR wanted to win
And the Socialists of the time weren't stupid enough to piss all over him and he turned out to be the best President the people have ever had. Unemployment insurance had already been enacted, btw. And the socialists wanted an income based social security. FDR wisely rejected that or we'd have lost it long go. I'm sure he was called some sort of corporate sell-out pig when he did it too.

If you spent as much time building a party and advocating for what you want, maybe more people would know what the Green Party agenda is. Nobody votes for people who do nothing but whine.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
94. Read you history friend, please
Add this to the list I've put out in this thread<http://www.guilford.com/cgi-bin/cartscript.cgi?page=pol... >

Real live facts friend, not the spin and sourceless assertions you've been putting out there. Cheers.
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #94
98. Your insults are not persuasive.
Do you really think insulting people as uninformed simply because they disagree with you is an effective debate tactic?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #94
102. Huh?
A link to a book? That's informative. Are you not the one who has had their facts wrong three times in the last hour???

I'm well aware of the varying factions and history in this country and that FDR was a sharp turn from the nutty Dem KKK connections prior.

You're going to have to bring more to the debate than a picture of a book.
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #77
101. Now there's some revisionist history mixed with GOP spin
FDR doesn't get the credit for unemployment insurance or Social Security, those are Socialist programs....

:eyes:

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pauliedee Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. Kerry a GREAT leader
Thanks, Well said...Weak democrats get "Roved" and then vote Bush/Nader...
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Yadda, yadda
At least past recipients have achieved something notable, Harry Belafonte, Diane Nash, etc. What has Kerry done? If this was for his anti war work in the early seventies, fine. But to award him this now simply comes across as a consolation prize, and an undeserved one at that.

And speaking the truth about Kerry's record isn't "bashing" him. Just because he is a Democrat doesn't mean that he is beyond reproach. While I voted for him in the spirit of ABB, quite frankly the man is and was a colossal disappointment. Do you deny his voting record? Do you deny his actions?

You may think that Kerry is the be all and end all of Democratic politics, but quite frankly to myself and many others he is simply another corporate whore, willing to sell out to the highest bidder. Don't make the mistake of confusing the large numbers voting for Kerry for actual approval of the man. Many many, if not most, were voting against Bush, not for Kerry.

If you can somehow explain away Kerry's voting record of the past five years, I'm willing to listen, and I'm also willing to hear the explanation of why he ran his campaign so poorly. But to simply dismiss myself and the many others who disliked Kerry as some sort of minor annoyance is a mistake. For it is this sort of condescending attitude which is helping to drive more and more people away from the Democratic party and into the arms of the Greens and others.
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Since he won the election, his campaign wasn't run that poorly.
Since they stole it, the poor job was in preventing the theft, but then again, who would have conceived of the multifacted means used by the thugs to pad and steal the votes.

FYI -- states run their elections, it is a complicated matter to ensure legitimate elections without intruding upon state rights.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Gee, nobody could have predicted a stolen election?
Wow, with the example of Florida fresh in our minds, with all of the publicity that BBV got, with all of the articles that were published, with the fact that every single person on this board, or involved in this campaign were aware of the possibility of a stolen election, you're saying that this knowledge aforehand wasn't filtering up to the Kerry campaign? That they were somehow suprised? Well friend, if that is indeed the case, then Kerry and his campaign were being run even more poorly than I originally thought. Wow, thanks for that information.

And yet gee, who was it that was first on the ground, and in court, when the suspicion of a fraudulent election became fact? Gee, the two groups with the least to gain in this debacle, the Greens and Nader, fancy that. And where was Kerry at this time? Coming in a day late and a dollar short, yet he had the entire presidency to win. Says something now, doesn't it?
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merh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. 17,000 lawyers and election experts on the ground through out
the USofA and they couldn't prevent it or even determine for certain how it happened and the many ways used to steal and pad the votes.

Again, funny thing is, elections are conducted by the states and governed by the state laws, the complexity of challenging them is multiplied by the number of states we have and the number of Sec of States and election commissions and boards. But, some people have very simple minds and cannot understand complex issues.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #46
53. And again, which campains were the first in courts, and in Ohio?
A big hint, their name doesn't start with a D
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pauliedee Donating Member (383 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
54. Most voted for Kerry because he's a great man
Most voted for Kerry because he's a great man and would be an EXCELLENT President! Only the dumb Naderite loving idiots like madhouse voted ABB.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. Go educate yourself, go look at the exits, the polls
Then come back and tell me how many people were actually voting FOR Kerry, as oppossed to voting AGAINST Bush.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #54
72. Maybe not most, but more than your average ABB would like to admit
I too think that this a good man who would make a wondrous president. I am hoping he still gets the chance.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. If JFK is rolling his eyes, it's because of how low our country has sunk
Edited on Tue Mar-01-05 01:09 PM by 8_year_nightmare
due to the corporate world's hold on this country.

It's Abraham Lincoln who is spinning in his grave & rolling his eyes:

I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed.

And so is Franklin Roosevelt:

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism ownership of government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power.

As well as Dwight Eisenhower:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex."
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. JFK's family appears to think otherwise
Caroline Kennedy appeared with Kerry last fall and made a recording that was used to call people. (I know it was used in NJ). At the awards ceremony Ted Kennedy talked of their long term friendship.

PS He was not "in favor" of the war in Iraq.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Oh please, stop it.
The Kennedy's are political hacks like all the rest, and of course they're going to back their boy, it's politics. Their blessing doesn't make Kerry sacred though.

And if Kerry is so against the war, why did he not only vote for the IWR, but for every single damn bill that continued funding this illegal, immoral war? Actions speak louder than words friend.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Thanks for ruining a positive thread.
:mad: :mad: :grr: :grr: :argh:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. Surprise he's out this early in the day
Normally one doesn't see such folk until after sunset. He must be wearing his Raybans.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
58. Did you Dem this year, dude?
So who did you support this election season?

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Well, if you were reading this thread carefully
You would have noted where I said that I voted ABB, despite my reservations about the man. Gee, I even voted for Gore in '00. Gee, I even worked on both campaigns, and contributed money, despite my better instinct. Guess I'm a sucker for punishment, eh.

Sorry pal, but I'll be going Green next time, like I've been doing in the locals for awhile now. Two party/same corporate master system of government is what is ruining this country.

Bye the bye, did you read those books I recommended? Educate thyself.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #60
66. Oh sure, I left work, bought the books read them all in 15 minutes
Damn I'm smooth.

Sorry, I wasn't reading carefully. I'm at work. Ah, ABB. Thank you for your vote. Both times.

Nevertheless, I hope you do vote Green from now on. If you're not gonna help the party nor truly support it, then the negativity we do not need. Go and follow your heart. I shall do the same. Fixin' to join the party in fact, just as soon as I get my taxes in.

Even so, I'll take note of your books, and read them when I get the chance. I also need to read "The Candidate" and "The Selling of the Presidency." The list grows longer.

By the way, I'm a girl.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #66
81. Well, you know what ass u me does for folks
And I highly recommend the books. Preferably before you join the Dems. You see, the Democratic party isn't the party of FDR and JFK anymore. Sad to say, but it is all about the C A S H now, and you should realize that. It certainly isn't the same party as when I first joined, and that is a real shame.



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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #40
83. Your insulting comments lower the level of discourse.
Your comments that those who disagree with you must be uneducated or ignorant reflect poorly on you, rather than the person at whom they were directed.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. Let's see here
I've been called a Naderite, a RWer, ignorant, stupid, foolish, etc. etc., and yet you are ragging on me because I'm advising people to find out and read the truth for themselves. What, are you afraid that they will follow my advice and actually find out how the Democratic party is screwing us all? Hmm, and just who do you work for? DNC, DLC, or one of the other Democratic affiliations that eases the transaction of corporate cash to Democratic coffer. Me thinks thou doth protest too much friend.
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Labelling people as ignorant or uneducated because they disagree
with you is wrong. The fact that you are unable to admit this simple point of courtesy is revealing.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Well friend, I'm sorry I busted up your little thread
But I'm sick and tired of this blind Kerry worship, when the man ran a piss poor campaign, backs this goddamn war, and is completely beholden to his corporate masters. It is time we stopped mooning over Kerry's demise like a goddamn calf, and get back to the business of saving our collective ass.

We are living in the Second Gilded Age friend, under the rule of the two party/same corporate master system of government, and we're down to very few options. So if you wish to continue to be part of the problem, fine, be a damn Kerry sychophant, even though he has clearly shown that he doesn't have the ordinary persons' interests at heart. Me, I'm out there working on being part of the solution, and we welcome any help people can bring. Just don't get in the way.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. If the Kennedys are hacks, who is pure enough for you.
The three Kennedys I mentioned were JFK, Caroline and Ted, all of whom have contributed greatly to this country. If JFK is a hack, this is a hack award, so why do you feel the need to click on this thread obviously put here so people who like Kerry will hear about an award that he received that is undoubtedly more special to him than it is to you.

The Kennedy center has its own criteria for giving awards. They obviously have a higher opinion of John Kerry's nearly 40 years of contributions to this country than you do. Awards are given by organizations every day. Do you evaluate each one and determine whether you feel they have merit and make sure you tell supporters of the recipient that the award is undeserved? Did you make sure that RW supporters of the swiftboat liars knew whether or not you approved of their award from the Conservative group? Or is John Kerry so uniquely undeserving of any praise or award, that you need to insure that everyone knows this.

PS I pick my friends, and you are not among them.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. Oh no, what am I going to do
Woe is me, I'm not going to be your friend.

Oh well.

And you're right, I shouldn't have clicked on this thread, but damn, sometimes trainwrecks are fascinating, you know. And I'm sorry I broke up your party, but damnit, wake up and smell the coffee! If the Democrats want to win again, they're going to have to stop putting up corporate candidates like Kerry, and get back to their leftist roots. Yeah, you're right, I'm pissed and in a bad mood, because the party that I've devoted thirty plus years to has swung so far to the right, has become such a tool of corporate America, that I don't even recognize it anymore.

And you people have the damn gall to praise this man :eyes: Sorry friend, but blood is on his hands, just as it on the Bushes hands, and the hands of anybody who voted for the IWR.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. I noticed you never answered the posters question as to who is pure enough
for you! I have my gripes too, but at least I haven't resorted to hating everyone. You are a perfect example of the Dems the repukes use to crucify us with , all complaints and no solutions.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #47
65. First of all, you're assuming I'm still a Dem
I'm not, I've gone Green, thanks in large part to last year's debacle. And I'm not looking for pure friend, I would be happy if there was somebody in Eisenhower's ball park, much less FDR's. Instead, we keep getting candidates who are approaching Reagan in their level of corporate ass kissing.

Two party/same corporate master system of government, that is the problem friend, and right now, the Dems aren't the answer.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #65
74. I didn't assume anything. I asked who you would support NOW. in any party.
You never have a name.I guess you support no one, not even a particular Green.Great way to make sure nothing gets done.
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
78. YOU JUST ARE UNABLE OR UNWILLING TO ANSWER, I GUESS
If you can't even name one person that you would be willing to support, you're just wasting everyone's time.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #78
95. If you haven't noticed friend
I'm trying to keep up with about four different folks. Be patient.
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #95
99. I'm not your friend and I don't appreciate the pretense
that you are mine.

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Then why did you care if one of those "political hacks" was spinning
After all if they're all the same, it must mean that the award was appropriate using your criteria.

Actually, I've only just discovered Kennedy. I'd drank the koolade in regard to him and thought he was a clown of some sort.

Then I heard him give a speech. Now I'm proud he's one of our leaders. And I'm also proud that Kerry is carrying on the fight against the Bush agenda, despite what must have been a heartbreaking loss. He's like a little Everready Bunny.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Where the hell have you been?
"but for every single damn bill that continued funding this illegal, immoral war?"

Did you miss the whole campaign? Half the reason he lost is because he voted AGAINST the $87 billion

Actions speak louder than words? Words speak for themself too.

BTW, NOBODY has proposed a plan that would allow for an instant pullout from Iraq. NOBODY.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #35
51. Yes, he did vote against it
And yet he did vote for it also. Except he voted for the Democratic version of the bill, the one that would have spread the tax burden out more equitably. The 87 billion he didn't vote for was the version that puts the tax burden on the poor and middle class. So I have to commend him for wanting to be equitable about the expenses of this war. But that fact that he did vote for 87 billion still remains.

And you're correct, nobody in our government is proposing that we pull out now. And that is the real shame, for that is what really needs to be done. I guess it is going to have to be a few thousand more deaths before our government recognizes that fact. A real shame, for there are millions outside of government who already realize that. Of course they don't have corporate America lining their pockets to keep the war going.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. It did more than that
It separated out money for the troops from money for reconstruction so there would be oversight so that reconstruction wouldn't line the pockets of corporations and would be done correctly with the Iraqi people involved in the process. So that Iraq would benefit which would have led to stability much faster. He didn't just blindly vote for the money, the way you imply. And it's sad that you "voted for the war" people are letting Bush get away with HIS lie about that vote because BUSH said it wasn't a vote for war. That fact got buried and the right got to twist the war lies any way they wanted, and the left helped.

NOBODY, in or out of government, is proposing an instant pull out. Not even Ralph Nader. It's sad how those screaming "bring the troops home" don't even know who to back in order to truly make that happen.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. But it was still money to support DEATH
Don't you fucking get it friend, no matter how kind and compassionate the gift of money is, it still is coming in at the point of a barrel, and thousands of innocent people are dying because of it. It is high time to stop the flow of money, period, so that we can stop this war and pull out now! Then, once our troops are on their way out, we can start paying moneys for repair, reconstruction, and reparations for every live that we have taken in Iraq.

And actually, yes, Nader is calling for the troops to come home now. Probably the only politician that is supporting that, a truly sad commentary on our body politic.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. Ralph's Plan
Sound bytes about "end the occupation" do not mean that's the actual plan. Nader does not now and never has supported anything different than what John Kerry has called for since day 1.

International peace-keeping force

Iraqi self rule and free and fair elections

Self-government that will be able to provide for its own security.

The US should provide humanitarian aid to Iraq to rebuild its infrastructure.

"Therefore, the US has a responsibility to the Iraqi people so Iraq can become a functioning nation again."

http://votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=55


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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. Those pesky facts!
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #51
67. So you knowingly posted a falsehood?
In post 27, you said:

And if Kerry is so against the war, why did he not only vote for the IWR, but for every single damn bill that continued funding this illegal, immoral war?


Now, based on the comment I am replying to, it appears that you knew this was not true when you posted it. So my question is, why did you knowingly post this falsehood? What was your intent?

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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #27
52. You are against the Kennedys and Kerry and we're supposed to believe
that you are our ally? Based on what?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Well, that would be because he's a Green and a Naderite
as you can see from this archived thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Ah, yes, he told me to go and do some research. So I did.

By the way, MadHound, speaking of ignorance, I'm not a boy. I'm a girlie. (hair toss and giggle)
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. I agree with the Greens on a lot of issues but
Democrats who think they are our allies are fooling themselves.

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. Agreed, as evidenced by publications like Counterpunch
who seem to follow the same thinking as this fellow.

I also question why a Green who's hostile to Dems would want to be around us on the "Democratic" Underground.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #70
92. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I'm working on obtaining a copy of the citation
My, aren't we bitter. Senator Kerry has performed great works over his 40 years in public service.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
105. Yes, he has.
Thank you.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
34. Hometown boy makes good
Thanks Paine. I wish I could have been there. Now I'll look forward to it on CSPAN. When you find out when it's been scheduled, please let us know, eh?
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
43. CSPAN, Saturday 8PM
Just got off the phone with CSPAN. The schedule is not yet definite, but this award ceremony & interview will probably air Saturday evening at 8PM (eastern). Check www.cspan.org to confirm.

For anyone burning/taping, it lasted approximately 1.5 hours.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. You are like a god to me
Thanks dude!
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vickie Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
50. Thank you so much for this! I wish I could have been there.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
93. Egads. That head is absolutely grisly.


Sorry, but it looks like something they pulled out of the ground.

That having been (poorly) said, WTG John! :toast:
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. LMAO
Will, you need to consider a career change, perhaps a writer for SNL or Daily Show?

You're BAD!

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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #96
100. It's not my fault
that the Kennedy family so honors Kerry that they gave him JFK's actual head.

Ew.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found that thing grotesque
Good lord. And GREEN on top of it. (shudder)
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-01-05 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #93
104. Kennedy looks like a moldy victim of the guillotine!
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
106. MSM - unbelievable
I just checked Google and Yahoo news. Absolutely nothing new (since the small article by the Herald and the BU piece).

Unbelieveable.

MSM, you've (not) done it again!
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. If news happens, and it doesn't get reported, did it really happen?
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #106
108. My letter to Oliphant & the Globe
Sent to Tom Oliphant, with copies to Christine Chinlund (ombudsman) &
Martin Baron (editor)

====================================================

Tom,

My son and I attended the Kennedy Foundation award ceremony Monday night. Almost caught up with you afterwards as you jumped over the velvet rope and disappered behind a panel. I wanted to thank you for your piece on Maya Keyes & the Point Foundation, "Abandoned but not Alone" -http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped... /

When I returned home home, I started a thread in Democratic Underground. Please take a look to understand how progressive Americans feel about Kerry and Kennedy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Note the comments of Will Pitt towards the end. Pithy.

Of particular interest, I am amazed by the lack of coverage given to this event by MSM. NECN had video soon afterward; the Herald had a small piece at midnight. The BU student newspaper had a nice piece the following day. Today, I again checked Yahoo News & Google News. Outside the stories cited, there is NOTHING!!!! except coverage by the blogs. NOT EVEN THE BOSTON GLOBE!!!! (pardon if I missed something). Unbelievable.

Going forward, I've been in touch with CSPAN, preliminary indication is it will be broadcast this Saturday at 8PM. Television well worth watching.

Thank you for participating, you did a fine job.

(name & town)

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