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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 08:59 PM
Original message
(Continued 3) Gannongate wrinkles
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 09:40 PM by TrustingDog
That thread is way too cumbersome and Huge, even being on cable. I know most think that the continuity shouldn't be broken but damn! I'm on cable and it's Hurtsome to try to post and reload...

Please, someone link to the other 2 originals for newcomers cuz I just don't want to go through this again, the slo mo and freezing stuff.

here are the history links:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3144209&mesg_id=3144209

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3155132&mesg_id=3155132
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David Dunham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Gannongate has fizzled out.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. fuck no, not This Gannongate. n/t
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Fizzled out???Over 700 posts in two threads in 3 1/2 days. nt
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. DEMS just wrote letter demanding investigation! STOP PROPAGANNON! nt
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 10:44 PM by Griffy
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
67. OMG, you're right!!! I'm sooo 2 hours ago.
Who cares about Whore Journalists in the WH anyway, booooring.

Have Jen and what's his name gotten back together?
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peacebird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. thanks TrustingDog - when threads get too big my 56k modem freezes...
I really should get a better connection... So - I see Gannon is selling his escort website domainnames. Be interesting to see just which sugardaddy buys them (and how much he over pays in gratitude for GG's continued "discretion")!

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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
106. You make a good point about the domaine name sales...
It IS a way for Jeffie to get ahold of some laundered funds from a party agent. Since he is no longer 'gainfully employed'. I doubt he can make any money with his 'moonlighting' job either.... who'd dare risk being spotted with him NOW??!!
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you TrustingDog . . . I connect at 24K
Those other threads REALLY bogged down my Internet browsing.

Now, here's hoping all the other posters who are digging up this story find new stuff to fill this thread up.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. FBI arrested several NAMBLA members last week...
You mentioned NAMBLA. I post on a PBS political discussion board and a couple of the crazy religious rightwingers were posting about this story about NAMBLA yesterday. I didn't even know what it was...we had been discussing a lot of the GANNON stuff, and then they posted this story.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050214-2148-childsex-daily.html

<<snip>>
Agent infiltrated man/boy love group
By Onell R. Soto
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
9:48 p.m. February 14, 2005

Seven men whom authorities link to a national group advocating sexual relationships between men and boys were arrested Saturday as they headed to Ensenada in hopes of molesting children, the FBI said Monday.

Three of the men were arrested at Harbor Island in a sting orchestrated by an undercover agent who infiltrated the North American Man/Boy Love Association, or NAMBLA, said Dan Dzwilewski, head of the San Diego FBI office...
<<snip>>

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20050218-9999-1n18manboy.html


<<snip>>

Little-known group promotes 'benevolent' sex
By Onell R. Soto
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
February 18, 2005

On its Web site and newsletters, the North American Man/Boy Love Association advocates sex between men and boys and cites ancient Greece to justify the practice.

It goes by the acronym NAMBLA, and the FBI has been following it for years, linking it to pedophilia and recently infiltrating it with an agent successful enough to be asked to join the group's steering committee.

Law enforcement officials and mental health professionals say that while NAMBLA's membership numbers are small, the group has a dangerous ripple effect through the Internet by sanctioning the behavior of those who would abuse children.

<<snip>>
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. And I told you i didn't believe it because the original came from Faux
news! Sorry! i can certainly see the error of my ways now! i was actually worried that bush would use this to undermine the Gannon story! I'm thinking he will still try but he can't suicide EVERY person in the US that is being emailed this information as we speak! I think this is going to be BIG!
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #23
175. ...he can't suicide every person...LOL. Don't give Bush any ideas, please
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
75. .... and this has WHAT to do w/ the Gannon story ?????
:shrug:
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #75
80. Well...
The message I was responding to--which I now realize has been deleted (maybe because the new poster didn't follow the DU rules about # of paragraphs--I don't know for sure)asked "have you checked into NAMBLA?" And that is why I posted that about the FBI/NAMBLA thing. It has nothing now to do with this thread, other than it is a recent story about pedophiles. Taken out of context, it doesn't really offer much insight. Sorry.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. It Has Nothing To Do With Guckert, Ma'am
Very, very little here actually does....
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'll try to post my p-shop pic again...
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 09:36 PM by TrustingDog


on edit: I'm locked or suspended. go figure.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. go here
the account is free, but you have to log in by the 1st or 2nd of each montth to keep it active: http://miamihost.net

just watch that the name of your file does not have over 20 characters or it will not upload.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. thanks again, Faye, woohoooo. .,. testing.
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 10:06 PM by TrustingDog


The eyes are all horizontally placed with other pics scaled to fit. The left pic is from the last thread (forget who did it, sorry) but I flopped it to fit the Jeff? pic in the middle.

Eyes are very similar, so is the nose, especially between the two at the left... tough to judge the other angle of the grown up real jeff on the same value.

I did some colourizing, contrasting in p-shop, but did not alter the actual pics I had to work with - just trying to make the tones the same as I could.

Made the left pic hair/head bigger/higher to conform to skeletal structure of the other two as this was another guessing p-shop job. but well done.

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. wtf...
is it just me or does Gannon look different in almost all his pictures? it's hard to compare sometimes b/c he looks so different from different angles.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
48. They call Johnny Gosch "The Chameleon"
:crazy:
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
153. OH MY GOD!
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #153
157. that's really not funny.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #153
183. That was funny, makes me laugh, n/t
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Uncanny!
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
110. I'd like to see a larger version of the picture on the left,
jimmy/jeff smiling, with no hair, side by side with the age enhanced picture to
age 30, also with no hair. Those seem to me to be the most comparable, in terms of age, expression, angle. (Though the angle is reveresed, right to left.).

Can someone do that?

thanks
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Self delete
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 10:16 PM by Pastiche423
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
8. TRUSTING DOG, QUICK
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 09:37 PM by Faye
PLEASE, IF YOU ARE STILL HERE. can you edit your post and put the links to the other threads in your post? you have about 20 minutes left to edit it.

Here is the link to the original: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3144209&mesg_id=3144209


and here is the link to PART II (most recent): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3155132&mesg_id=3155132
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Done, Faye.
I have the entire urls on on Stickies if they don't work, but testing showed they do.

Faye, thanks for that important suggestion.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Who IS Gannon? Is Guckert even his real name? Where/when was he born?
Where did he grow up? Go to high school? Did he go to any college, are there any records? What jobs has he had aside from being a shrubco press whore and a real man ho?

Does anyone aside from Repub tools know him from his youth and school days?

Since dude is talking to the media again, some of these questions could be asked to him directly.
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. Well I dunno who he is but I don't think he was kidnapped
and that boy looks nothing like him.

For the facts about James Dale Guckert that I have found-he graduated from West Chester University in 1980.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/10887859.htm

Apparently his degree was in physical education.

He also listed being a member of the fraternity there at one time.

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2770

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=47

According to public records..somebdoy might want to contact the reporter on the first piece..it says Guckert was born in 1957. Which still puts his age at 47. He owed back personal income taxes from Delaware state..from 1991-1994. So that gives you some idea of where he was in those years. Apparently he was still living in Delaware to this day.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. there is no way he is 47.
i can't even see him being OVER 40. I hope my man looks that good at almost 50! wtf?
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
41. I disagree, could easily see him being 47.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
72. I agree, I don't think he looks 47.
I guess he has a young looking face.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. Nice work...
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. I disagree that he looks "nothing" like him. He has a very strong
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 11:47 PM by mzmolly
resemblance IMHO. That doesn't mean it's him, but he's definately got similar features.




Both have:
large lower lip/thin upper lip
perhaps a very slight underbite
lines coming from outside of lower nose to underneath the jaw area
same protrution between eyebrows
very similar eyes
cleft chin
redish brown hair
yada yada yada...
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
165. I don't think...
... the shape of one's ears changes over time. Gannons ears are "big at the top" - the kid's are not.

I think this is a very long shot at best.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #165
166. The ears were photo shopped I believe. It was an age progression photo
the original had his ears covered.



:shrug:

They used this photo to create the age progression.
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
93. Unless he has a corporate name incorp. in Delaware. Lot of Repugs do.
n/t
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. A "Larry King" is now Executive Editor of Omaha World-Herald:
http://www.nebraskaprsa.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=59

Harold Adamsen, former publisher, was an associate of the Franklin King, and was named in the cover-up.

Don't know if it's the same. My gut says, no frickin' way. But my gut's already been proven wrong about this stuff.
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tanyev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Omaha World Herald and ES & S voting machines.
Landis continues: "Burl Osborne, chairman of the AP board of directors, is also publisher emeritus of the conservative The Dallas Morning News, a newspaper that endorsed George W. Bush in the last election. Kathleen Carroll, senior vice president and executive editor of AP, was a reporter at The Dallas Morning News before joining AP. Carroll is also on the Associated Press Managing Editors (APME)'s 7-member executive committee. The APME "works in partnership with AP to improve the wire service's performance," according to their website. APME vice president, Deanna Sands, is managing editor of the ultra conservative Omaha World Herald newspaper, whose parent company owns the largest voting machine company in the nation, Election Systems and Software (ES&S)."

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=18549


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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Now there's something I didn't expect to see, and yet
I can't say I'm surprised. Thanks.
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libertypirate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
43. googled: "Executive Editor of the Omaha World-Herald"
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 11:11 PM by libertypirate
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. thanks - not the same, then. n/t
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dutchdemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #43
78. Deleted
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 02:19 AM by dutchdemocrat
Deleted
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #10
53. Holy Beeeejeezus....
That fat fuck has a job ?


As an editor or whatever?


Harold Anderson is also implicated. How many other Omaha World Herald people will be compromised.


WTF!!!!
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
89. Has it been nailed down that it's the same guy?
If it is............wow..
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #10
99. When did the Larry King who was involved in the scandal get out of jail?
If there's any chance this is the guy I can check some print resources and dig up some biographical information on him. Don't want to waste my time if the dates don't add up.
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Spike from MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #99
112. I emailed you what little info I found on this
but thought I'd post it here as well. In an August 19, 2003 interview with Noreen Gosch she mentions that Larry King is out of prison so we know it was before that. It's interesting to note that the site where I found the interview yesterday is no longer functioning today. Google still has it cached for now so you can still access it by going a Google search for "Noreen Gosch" and then clicking on the "Cached" link for the "educate-yourself.org/tg/goschcradiointerview19aug03.shtml" result. OK, just click on the tinyurl link:

http://tinyurl.com/6xeno
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #112
202. Yeah, why is google starting to "get dumb" on searches for
"Hunter Thompson"
"The Franklin Cover-up"
"Larry King"

etc etc.....

I've noticed that too.

I wish I'd done more print-outs.

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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just my two cents
I believe it's worth looking into Bush 1's White House male prostitute scandal while considering Bush 2's White House male prostitute scandal, partly because they're both Bush White House male prostitute scandals and partly because this crowd is so into loyalty, recycling personnel from Bush1 to Bush2, etc.

The Gannon, Eberle, etc. coincidences along these lines are weird indeed and there may be something there, or not. And it's certainly odd that Guckert seems to have been born only a few years ago for all we know of his past.

But having said that, I don't see the resemblance to Johnny Gosch that many of you see. It's possible Guckert knew somebody else who was connected, and the name "Gannon" and White House welcome came that way; it's always possible Gannon was himself part of the Bush 1 scandal; or it's possible the name recurrences are coincidences. Either way, I don't see any resemblance to Johnny Gosch and just wanted to weigh in on that. (Not that I'm an expert, and I know some experts here see it differently.)

I also want to say that I worry sometimes that it's too easy. Like so many things Rove does -- I can't imagine what's behind it or what the plot could be, but it just seems toooo easy. It's a wonder this guy wasn't discovered when he first arrived at the press briefings. :shrug:
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Kansas Wyatt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Problem....
Didn't George W. Shrub issue an Executive Order sealing all records regarding the Presidents for an extended period of time after they leave office?

Could part of this scandal be one of the real reasons that he took this action?

Does anyone know if this action would affect this investigation?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Yes, I think he did
Part of what he sealed were records about the GOP witchhunt of Clinton.

Also, Reagan/Bush1 documents, which I always thought was about Iran Contra, but could well have to do with this instead or in addition. Or even other malfeasance, who knows.

Also, his records as governor, I believe? (Did JeffJim ever live in Texas, btw?)
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
56. I believe he did live in Texas
I remember reading he lived in Texas for a while.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. First look its bizarre....
second glance its sickening....third time around, it absolutely can not be true...fourth time...where can I get a gun?
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. I tried to post this in thread number 2 but it got locked and THANKS for
providing yet another thread BTW.

Has it occurred to anyone that MANY people who feel hurt, outcast, or somehow BROKEN seek out churches to soothe them?

Isn't this what bush says is his BASE?

Is it possible that A LOT of these abused children have turned to religion because they sense something isn't right with them?

I had a strange experience during the Christmas season of 2003. Some acquaintances invited my son to their church. My husband and I are not religious even though we were both raised Catholic. We are spiritual but don't feel the need to attend a church but my son was curious so we decided we'd go as a family. It was the Christmas season and of course the church was all about love and the birth of Christ and so, on. We liked the church and decided to continue attending. The very first Sunday after the Christmas season I got a letter in the mail saying someones child had been molested at a church function. The church claimed they were on top of it and I figured, well, it does happen and they say they are handling it so (dumb me) I continued to attend. The sermon that NEXT Sunday was, well let's just say, my ENTIRE family got into the car and EVERY last one of us said we would NEVER go back. The minister started talking about pedophiles via Michael Jackson and condemned homosexuals as if they were one and the same.

Three of my heterosexual relatives died from tainted blood transfusions way back when AIDS was virtually unspoken of in society. AIDS was only effecting the gay community back then for the most part. As a result of these deaths I have been involved in quite a few AIDS fund-raising and information issues.

Anyway, because I have met MANY gay people through that and my kids have too, we were absolutely appalled by that sermon. I wrote the minister a letter telling him why NO member of my family would EVER step foot in his church again. he wrote back some lame response that he had personally helped AIDS victims in missions for the church but had the audacity to reiterate to me in that letter that homosexuality was an abomination and of course pointed out where in the bible i could find the offensive proof of this. The guy was a nut case!

I was relaying this story to a friend of mine at work when another woman, who was new at the time overheard what I was saying. From that day forward this woman persecuted me daily to the point where I had to quit because my employer was doing NOTHING to stop it. My tire was even slashed. This woman is an admitted anorexic (often a symptom of child abuse as pointed out by a poster in the last thread who was a victim). The woman believes her church should donate to her infertility/adoption $50,000 because they supposedly can donate that amount to charity. She can't seem to realize that her anorexia is the reason for her infertility and she thinks she really deserves this money because she is such a good Christian. I can't even go into all the details but this woman is really mentally disturbed IMO.

After reading through this thread it just hit me...THIS IS THE BASE THE ADMINISTRATION IS ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT!

Is it possible that abused children who don't realize what has happened to them are seeking out churches in record numbers because they know something is wrong subconsciously?
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
27. Yes very possible
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
94. Speaking of kids seeking "help"...did anyone hear Poppy's comments
yesterday at the Tsunami site? He said the truly unfortunate part of the Tsunami were all the displaced children. He kept going on about the kids.

And I'm thinking... He's going to send in "people" to help these Orphans. And I got a real sick feeling...
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #94
100. Poppy really stumbled over his words in answer to Wolfee
when he was asked about --- children might be kidnapped, sold for slave or sex trade purposes. 2/20/05

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/02/20/cnna.clinton.bush/

<snip>
BLITZER: President Bush, there was a lot of concern expressed early on, in the immediate aftermath of the tsunami, that children might be kidnapped, sold for slave or sex trade purposes. What if anything, have you learned about those fears? Are they -- are they real?

BUSH: I didn't -- to be very honest with you, that subject, at least when I was present in meetings, never came up. And had it been of enormous concern to these government, I expect it would have. I read in the papers there have been some indications of that, but it's not -- at least the NGOs out there in Aceh, and the government leaders we've met with, none of them have presented that as a major problem at this point. Now, maybe you heard something about it.

CLINTON: I will say this, I think that it's going to be much more difficult to do, Wolf, as long as we have the kind of non-governmental organizations presence we've got there. We've met a young American today in this remote village, in his 20s, who have been in Indonesia for five years. He spoke the language wonderfully. And there are people like that that are physically present, from a lot of the religious groups, like World Vision and other groups like CARE.
<snip>
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #100
119. Oh, those RELIGIOUS groups are taking care of it. Would these be the
same religious groups bush and baby bush call their base?

Now I am concerned about Clinton's involvement big time! Is he there to make sure Poppy doesn't get his hands on those kids or the other scenario.

There is a HUGE sex trade in some of those countries and MANY people that have been there KNOW it is true. Women and children are regularly sold into slavery. I sure as hell hope Clinton is the watch dog not the enabler!
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #119
155. Foxes guarding the hen house?
These poor kids...to have survived such a trauma...and now be victims of people who come to 'rescue' them. Who are these charity groups exactly? The same ones that wouldn't give food to starving people unless they first converted to Christianity?

And Poppy is there to assure everyone that the money donated will be closely monitored? Please!
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #119
197. Clinton & Bush1 Bond Bugging me...
While reading Gannon gate, which I might add I DO believe IT IS HIM in that PHOTO in the upper-threads, with 100 percent certainty.

Agreed as well with regards to the taking of minds from abused, neglected young people - would put nothing past the slimes!

With that said, the recent Clinton/Bush1 bond has been bugging me to no end... my family is chattering away about this. Is Clinton watching things, or the other way around. The latter is the way I'm leaning. Someone should post a thread for thoughts on this. Made me think he's DT. He does look very, pale, very sick lately.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #197
201. What are you trying to say about Clinton?
What is DT? Clinton went with Bush I because he was asked to go.
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Kota Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #18
108. It seems as though the child being abused is a setup to the
sermon. Get the congregation appalled enough and then link the issue to gays and gays to pedophiles or visa versa.It would be interesting to know if the child really existed and how it was resolved if it did happen.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #108
122. Without a doubt that was my creepy impression of the whole situation.
During that sermon the importance of our upcoming election was ALSO mentioned. I was so creeped out by this experience I am not allowing my son to hang with the soon of the friend that invited us. They play sports together and I am always at all his events including practice. These people seemed very trustworthy,maybe they are just lost. I can't imagine how they can continue going to a church that preaches such hatred. It is one of two absolutely enormous churches in the area I live. I would venture to say between the two churches there are at least 10,000 members. The woman that harassed me to death belongs to the other church!

Sadly, I think this thread has confirmed my suspicions about a lot of these churches. I am not sure I can ever step foot in another one except in the event of a funeral or wedding. These churches are far more like cults than they are like the church (Catholic) I remember going to. Unfortunately, I have a hard time going to the Catholic church because of their own issues with child abuse.

It is pretty sad when you can't even trust a church with your children anymore. Well, religion is IMO for the parents to teach anyway so I guess I will just continue to tell my children what I think God is all about.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
117. yes, I'd love a number on how many of the Jehovah's Witnesses
are born into that church, it's not very many, everyone has a relative to converted to JW and set about torturing their family members. Michael Jackson's family became Jehovah's witness.

To me at it's root is an unresolved inability of our culture to deal with masculine brutality, and the easiest way when one has this buried psychological conflict is just to go all Stockholm and find an institution that is very authoritarian and patriarchal that says that God made things that way on purpose...then the victim of the abuse doesn't have to work through their history they can just accept it as God-intended. I know a few people at one time or the other who have gone JW, they are some of the sickest people I've ever met. Also in that category is Pentecostal, but that church's membership is more hereditary I think, it's membership seems to come out of communities that may have started out geographically isolated.
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2diagnosis Donating Member (191 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
236. Makes sense,
start a child sex ring to scar children so they will then go to church because they sense something is not right with them then the church converts them to good little republicans who will vote for pugs. It is so devious that Rove must have set this fundie voter mill up back in Texas!
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thanks for these great threads
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 10:20 PM by TroubleMan
Whether or not the connection can be made, this is as good and as compelling as any book I've read (and I've read over 1000).

The rabbit hole is so fucking deep, and the CIA has done so many bad things in the past that it's hard not to believe any little coincidence to be connected to another.

I see a deep connection here....it's just the BFEE crime family web....anywhere there's money, they've got there sticky little fingers in it.

and to Andy and the others.....thanks again...you always do great work. I hope you let us know what you come up with.

(on edit)

I think the whole key in this issue is finding out Guckert's past, and people who can say they knew him in the 80's and 90's - or the lack of people who knew him.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. the big picture and who is the photographer...
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 10:33 PM by TrustingDog
I am still in denial that so 'many respectable people' could be involved in this cesspool. And there are many we do not know about, take that to the bank.

The Washington parties, the back room special parties..... drugs, crimes of photos that are the worst in the world - predators on children. Were some of them too drugged but posed for photos that would get their yeah or nays in congress or the senate with blackmail?

Is the glass half full, or half empty? What would You do to protect your family? Lie?

Hell, I would.

edit: IT'S THE PNACers.
they're behind all this slime added to the other regular slime. Check them out and see who they are. Are they American?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Perhaps its because the rapture will come only when the Jews
return to the land of Israel and build the temple... or something like that.. but it requires the Jews be in the holy land...
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I might lie too, but with all these arrests and posts like this one and
all of us trying to link this, I don't think they can kill off that many American citizens. This story is going to break. The implications could be MIND BOGGLING!

How does a country of CITIZENS rebuild a government after they criminally prosecute 50% or more of it's members? Who the hell CAN we trust? Right now, I wouldn't trust ANYONE from ANY branch of ANY government!

This is creepy and the reason it's creepy is that we all KNOW this many co incidents is a statistical IMPOSSIBILITY!

:scared:
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #31
161. makes you wonder what the Real murder rate is...
and how many are assasinations and shut-up-work done by the PtB.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. Great stuff, Folks..
I need a favor; there was a blog link posted in one of the threads yesterday that had a synopsis (w/links back to these threads)of what has been found so far; could somebody post that again if they have a link?

Thanks!
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I think that might have been this:
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. That's it!
Thank you very much, and great job on this.
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Damn, I just realized that was you!
Great blog...
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Thanks. But lately I'm wishing I'd never begun looking at this shit.
Because it's worse than I'd ever imagined, and I don't have the confidence anything can be done about it.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. ignorance may be bliss afterall....
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 11:28 PM by TrustingDog
I too would rather not know. It carves a hole in you.

edit: schpelling.
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. I've FP'ed your blog
it's great in that it's so off the beaten path, very refreshing.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #35
174. Good review of this new "wrinkle"
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. awesome, i didn't see it
but i would like to see it if someone can find it.
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Cygnusx1 Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. This is sort of interesting...
Might have NOTHING to do with it but let me toss it out there...

This church is near West Chester University and Delaware...

The minister is "accused" of pedophila and bilking church funds.
(apparently a narscicist (sp?))

If interested, take a look at: Editor's Notes, Testimonies and especially Pictures...

Wondering if any of these people look familiar.

A stretch maybe, but who knows...

http://www.cosnews.org/
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #44
61. Just did. NO. Wasted my time.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
49. someone might have already brought this up....
Edited on Tue Feb-22-05 11:44 PM by Faye
but i have been thinking - could the reason Gannon (whatever you want to call him) didn't go through a security check is so that none of this would be exposed, if it is all true? if he had gone through a security clearance, that would mean background check....and that would mean some of this would be found out :shrug:

basically, whoever hired him to do this already knew his background and didn't want it to become public.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. Who would have exposed the truth about Gannon to the public?
Not the WH, not the SS, not KKKRove, not McClellan and now we know the MSM knew his background as far back as 2003 and didn't bother to expose him. I don't know anyone who would have gone against the WH if THEY wanted Gannon there. :shrug:
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #52
55. i don't mean expose him as in knowing he was a 'fake reporter'
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 12:36 AM by Faye
i meant, exposing him as possibly being involved with what we are talking about in this thread (the Gosch/child abductions, etc.)

I"m saying, if this is all true, what has been uncovered in these wrinkle threads, that would explain why whoever hired him didn't want him to have to go through a background check.....or whoever does those background checks would know the truth and the truth could get into the wrong hands (the public) :shrug:
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #55
59. That makes sense.
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 01:01 AM by in_cog_ni_to
The background check could have brought the house of cards down. The SS does the background checks. Would they ever expose the truth? Go over KKKRove's head? I don't know. People always say the SS is their to protect the prez. To what end?
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
208. Oh absolutely, for dowd they wanted several months of backround
checks. He definetly was permitted to bypass this step.
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-22-05 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
50. OK, I have some unanswered questions
here goes:

Andy contacted the mother of Johnny to see if she recognized the photo of Guckert/Gannon. What's the deal? Does she? She replied to Andy with that long letter of background info her son's kidnapping and a the Sam Soda/Paul Bishop story on thread 2, but no response to the photo. . ?

What happened to the boy who was kidnapped that she spoke of, when no one would believe her story and it ended up happening, did they get him back??

And finally, what was the relevance of the original post in the original thread where Andy needed the DC phone book? Besides the fact that it's an escort service number he needed, how does it fit in with all of this?

If these have been answered, my apolgies! upwards of 800 posts and only so many hours in a day, or cigarettes left in the pack. <g>
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. Answer to your first question...
Nope, she didn't respond to the photo. She may be protecting him if it is him.

Eugene Martin has never been found. He's the other paper boy who was kidnapped after Mrs. Gosch warned the police.

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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #54
57. Does no one find it odd that there hasn't been any response from the mom
about the photos, resemblance and coincidences.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. YUP. I do.
That's why I think we're on to something. If it wasn't him she would say so, right?
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soulcore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #58
63. one would think. that or yell "THAT'S MY BOY!!!" n/t
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #63
96. I've been thinking about the age disrepancy between Gannon & Gosch
I asked a gay friend of mine why gay men liked shaved heads so much, and he said it hides their true age.

If Gannon didn't shave his head, he might look 10 years younger...or NOT? Plus not having hair, disguises/blurs his prior identity (for those who knew him WITH hair.)

But this is all so hypothetical...I don't want quoted, please.
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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #54
71. There is NO Way she would say... yah! that's My Son...
she may as well pull the trigger on him herself.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #54
101. As to the Escort Service.
Call it the catalyst if you will.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #50
65. incognito pretty much answered..
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 01:44 AM by LibInTexas
but...

I feel she is being coy, for whatever reason.

He was never found or heard from again. The FBI's sent a whole team in. He was spirited out, so fast...


The DC "Escort" service Andy was looking at, has a history (at least rumors of) of being a CIA front.

I think that CIA is the whole lynch-pin to this. CIA was involved in Franklin, and still is, to this day, running deep ops with the sex trade in D.C.

And if it can ever be proven, it will rock the highest levels of gov't.

LIKE THE PRESIDENCY!?

This is huge.

(Short version, sorry.)

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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #65
171. Yes'm.........CIA.........that's the ticket! n/t
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #65
203. she says he son visited her as an adult and asked for secrecy to
save his life
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
60. A few things stand out after reading threads 1 & 2 again
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 01:12 AM by TheGoldenRule
1. The names Gannon and Guckert could both be assumed names-as in names taken from people who have already died. I've heard of people doing this-finding someone close in age and taking the persons Social Security number etc. There could be a couple of obituaries somewhere with both these names.

2. What are the odds that Gannon/Guckert/Grosch is suffering from multiple personalties or mind control right this very minute? And that he has no conscious motive, no ax to grind, not even blackmail because he is mentally incapable of it?

3. Did anyone see that story recently on-I think it was 20/20 or Dateline-where this guy in his early 20s killed his female babysitter who molested him as a child when they were members of a sick religous cult he grew up in? After he killed the babysitter, he was going to kill his mom-who is head of the cult!-but he lost his nerve and killed himself instead. Sorry I can't remember more, but I was half watching it as I was reading DU at the same time that night. Could that cult be involved in this somehow?

On Edit: I found it...here's the link to info on the cult...it's called Children of God/The Family

http://www.rickross.com/groups/family.html

Hope these comments don't sound too out there or too silly to even mention... :shrug:
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. And what were the odds that Hunter Thompson would end up
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 01:33 AM by LibInTexas
dead in his kitchen with a gunshot to the head?

On the same weekend that his name was being brought up again in the Franklin scandal.

Hummmmmmmmm?
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
180. Reluctantly,
I am convinced that Thompson really killed himself. Sometimes a coincidence is really just a coincidence.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. Check this out re that cult murder story
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 01:20 AM by Minstrel Boy
The cult is The Family, what used to be called The Children of God.

Here's a link to the story from LBN http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1153791#1154082

And this is what I wrote to it, cribbed from Alex Constantine's book, Psychic Dictatorship in the USA:


Chief Inspector Juan Carlos Rebello, who led police in the Children of God raids (in Argentina), said "we found evidence suggesting that the Family was funded by influential businessmen worldwide." One Argentine magazine found that some financial supporters of the cult were "well-known and powerful people," and pondered whether Berg's disturbed mental state "is being exploited by a network of powerful people to sexually control an army of children....

According to the Washington Post for June 2, 1993, "the Family's leadership follows a policy of lying to outsiders, is steeped in a history of sexual deviance and has even meddled in Third World politics." Edward Probe, a Canadian who once edited Family publications, worked in the Philippines from 1986 to '88. He told the Post that "Family officials openly sympathized with right-wing military officers who tried to overthrow the government: What we were doing was supplying all the moral support." One former member from Costa Rica told Argentina's Gente magazine: My father used to have certain privileges inside the organization. He was considered a very important person for public relations. His paternal grandfather...was a close friend of Pinochet and Juan Carlos, the king of Spain." Pinochet and Carlos became financial and political benefactors of the cult.

In the United States the political pull of the sect extended to the Bush administration. A chorale of Family children (in 1978 the COG changed its name to the Family of Love) kicked off a Christmas show in 1992 for Barbara Bush in the East Room of the White House, for which they received certificates of appreciation signed by President Bush. The sect also sang for Bush after he toured the ravages of Hurricane Andrew in south Florida. It wasn't the first time Bush's name arose in connection with a child prostitution cult..../end.


This pattern, I should add, is not unique to the Family. Behind many cults, you can discover the influence of wealthy elites and intelligence agencies. Sometimes laundering money, sometimes lab testing mind control, sometimes exploiting children.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #64
68. WTF?! "The Family" Cult had it's Children sing for George & Barbara
in the WH?!!!

Yikes, this gets scarier and more bizarre by the minute! :puke:

Thanks for the info.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #68
102. Nothing odd about that for them. Papa Bush also embraces the new
messiah, Rev. Moonie.
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kittenpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #60
143. funny that cult is called "the family" because that's also
a term for "the christian mafia"--something I read about on DU in article by Wayne Madsen. Again, this might be another same name coincidence or not...
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kk897 Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #143
149. OT: kittenpants?! THE kittenpants?!
If so, lemme just say, I'm a fan!
:yourock:
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
66. About Paul Bishop
Andy Stephenson stated that Mrs. Gosch positively identified the recently arrested (child porno charges) Paul Bishop as the same George Paul Bishop who sat in her kitchen 20 years ago.

She previously had stated that Paul Bishop had been "a young person in his twenties" and she wondered "had he been used in some manner by the very element that took my son."

Any youth who was a victim for a long period of time is IMO likely to remain in the same circles throughout their adult life, as they would be completely unprepared --psychologically AND practically -- for anything else..

All of this reminds me that one never knows another person until they've walked a mile in their shoes..



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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #66
77. I agree.
That is why sometimes I fear for Gannon, if he is involved in all this.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #66
170. Lostnfound you speak wisdom!
people seem unable to understand that those who have been abused and also have been dependent on their abusers eventually come to accept all of it as a "normal" part of their existence...(Stockholm Syndrome)

I'd expect youngsters coming out of the "ring" to continue in similar vein, because of the familiarity of the lifestyle, and because of their connections. They'd also be useful tools for the "ring"...
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bearfan454 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
69. kick
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
70. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #70
73. Pacino was Cohn in a movie, what the heck was it called?
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #73
76. Angels over America, (may be a different preposition),
Yeah, I saw it, was mesmorizing...
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bear425 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #76
107. Angels in America,
I'm watching the cd's now. Pacino's Cohn character conjures the Franklin Coverup. It's pretty eery.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #76
140. "Angels In America" and yes, THIS was a message!
I watched the mini series just recently and what I got out of it was that we've been here before and we can go through it again sort of. The powerful government influences and the gay Republican connections were uncanny. I kept thinking to myself there was a message there some where. the Angel's told one of the central characters to STOP MOVING. go back in time so that God would return to heaven. I guess i need to rent this movie multiple times to get the message though. I was mesmerized by seeing what was going on in the gay community because I was watching these horrors in three heterosexuals at about the same time. Three of my family members died in the late eighties and early 1990 after receiving tainted blood transfusion. One of them was a woman and she suffered horribly simply because there were VERY few women that had ever been diagnosed with the disease at the time.

Anyway, I rented the movie because I needed to see the other side I guess from that early point of AIDS. I really do think there is a message in it. After reading through these threads I'm beginning to think the message was to start digging around in the governments past.

Does anyone find it odd that medical records have been made virtually IMPOSSIBLE to get unless they are yours and even then they aren't easy to transfer? The new HIPPA rules seem WAY overboard to me. Who is trying to hide their medical records and or conditions from the public?
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #140
150. moderator dumped my original post
must of thought there were too many paragraphs from one site, but they were all from different sites, so this time I'll post each sites substance separate:

I was thinking about Cohn when this on Gannan/Guckert's started:

But just as his Communist foes hid their secret beliefs, Roy Cohn hid his private life as a homosexual. When AIDS killed him in the bloom of the Reagan years, the public discourse had turned to family values and Americanism. The triumph of patriotic kitsch must have pleased Cohn, for he himself reveled in little flag waving displays. At his parties he'd haul people to their feet to sing "God Bless America," evidently his favorite song, and though he was a lifelong operagoer, Roy's idea of a good time was to sing patriotic ditties at a piano bar in Provincetown, on Cape Cod. A friend recalled going home early one summer evening, and, on inquiring the next morning about the rest of the night, being told, "We all stood around the piano. Roy sang three choruses of 'God Bless America,' got a hard on and went home to bed
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #140
204. our medical records are open to insurance companies, the govt,
and people working with outsourced medical records in India, etc
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #73
81. Angels in America, I believe
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #81
83. Yes.....n/t
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #70
74. About Cathy O'Brien and "Monarch"
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 02:05 AM by Minstrel Boy
I think she's meant to come across as a nut. She's handled by her partner Mark Phillips, who is "formerly" of the CIA. I think her memories have been scrambled by a lot of disinformation, most notably the "shape-shifting."

I've read other recovering survivors warn survivors to steer clear of them. One said Phillips would try to convince every survivor who approached him for help that they hadn't been abused at all; a few questions from him, and he'd say they'd imagined it.

Other Monarch survivors have memories more trustworthy and untainted. I've interviewed one, Kathleen Sullivan, for my blog. It was Tuesday's story. She talks a bit about O'Brien and alludes to Phillips.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #74
79. Yeah, I got that idea too,
Edited on Wed Feb-23-05 02:26 AM by EC
she seems presistant, still doing speaking engagements and such...But she usually speaks to Republican organizations, so I'm wondering if she is a "dis-information" dupe? But, then again, she does name Republican abusers...

On edit: her first husband Houston, seems to think Phillips gained some control over her.

Mark Phillips has offered varying descriptions of how he first learned about Monarch programming. At one point, he said he had worked for an unnamed "DIA contractor," in which position he came across various materials detailing the government's mind control projects. But in a letter to me (June 1, 1991), he claimed to have discovered the operation during his "tenure in the '60s and '70s at NASA (Huntsville, Alabama) and Woodland Hills R&D (Woodland Hills, California)" I have lived near Woodland Hills most of my life, yet have never heard of any such corporation, which remains a mystery to everyone else I have consulted. (A call to Directory Assistance came up goose eggs.) Phillips seems rather too young to have worked in a sensitive position at NASA in the 1960s. He supposedly "retained" copies of classified documents detailing "harmonics, electroshock, hypnotic programming, mind/body conditioning (torture), (limited) drug applications for programming and deprogramming, and the names and backgrounds of the expendables (victims)." Peculiarly, he has never produced any of this confirming documentation. Nor has he produced any evidence that he ever worked for any government contractor. Independent background checks have revealed only that he has held far less impressive jobs, such as selling recreational vehicles.

He also briefly joined forces with a Tennessee businessman named Alex Houston. Houston, in a telephone interview with researcher Mike Knight, claims that he was married to Cathy O'Brien in 1988. Oddly, she never mentioned this marriage in her voluminous autobiographical writings, although she has frequently labeled Houston an operator within Project Monarch - an accusation he strongly denies. Houston reports that he and Phillips once traveled to China to sell capacitors, and were briefly detained on suspicion of espionage by the Chinese government. After returning to the United States, Houston found that Cathy had gone off with Mark.

<snip>

On one occasion (or so Cathy claims), she was taken to a rural retreat, where she serviced the eldritch sexual needs of then-vice president George Bush and one of his chief aides. This story's high point depicts Bush "kissing the sky" while strung out on heroin, as he repeatedly gurgles to his comrade: "You look just like Elmer Fudd!" (A wicked part of me almost wishes it were true)



http://www.mindcontrolforums.com/project-monarch-tangled-web.htm
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Everyone Has To Make A Living, Ma'am
Mining credulity is an ancient and established trade....
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #82
84. You are such a cordial gent.
:-)
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #82
85. Yes, it is, especially among pols
but I don't readily believe much of anything, anymore....
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #85
87. They Are Not Alone, Sir
In realizing the potential to be tapped there....

"If you don't vote for the right lizard, the wrong lizard might get in!"
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enigmatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #87
88. This guy would agree:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #88
92. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
90. Birthmark?
Check out the closeup of Gannon's chest under "site 4" on the following page:

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/02/man-called-jeff.html

Is it just my eyes playing tricks, or does there seem to be a faint birthmark just to our right of his dog tags?

Remember that Gosch's mom mentioned a birthmark on the left side of his chest (also mentioned in the pdf info Andy posted)
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #90
91. I see it
too . This entire deal is freakin' me out !
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manna Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #91
95. Some cheer
A New Superpower is Emerging Called the Grass Roots.

"Rise like lions after slumber in invanquishable number - Shake your chains to earth like dew which in sleep had fallen on you - ye are many - they are few." ~ Percy Bysshe Shelley

"Those who expect to be ignorant and free expect what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson,

"First, they ignore. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #95
97. Love those quotes
Welcome to DU !

I found your first post so informative, been at some of the links.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #95
105. Welcome to DU, manna!
I love those quotes, too! :hi:
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Blue Gardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
98. I just have to say
This is absolutely the most fascinating discussion I've seen on DU since I joined. I've barely been able to tear myself away from the computer. Wish I could skip work today!
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #98
103. It's like reading a great King novel, isn't it?
The story is so deep (literally "deep" in the Government) compelling, frightening, eerie and unfortunately, true. :(
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
104. Did gannon/guckert/gosch work at cns news?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3162483#3163335

I posted this in another thread. The freepers seem to think so.

www.cnsnews.com and www.conservativenews.net are exactly the same.
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
109. A little kick for the day crowd (n/t)
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shadowlight Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
111. Apologies to the parents of these children.
Top left: Gannon from Anderson 360, top center: Johnny Gosch, from original thread, top right: Gannon, from original thread, bottom left: newspaper boy abducted in Des Moines in 1984, from original thread, for comparison purposes, bottom 2nd left: Johnny Gosch, apparently age enhanced photo, from original thread, bottom 2nd right: hair removed, disclaimer, I can change the shape of the head to whatever suits, bottom right: Gannon in daily briefing.


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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #111
113. Thanks for the compilation (n/t)
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manna Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. guess I should post this again
Peculiar Ties Connect Boys Town to CIA

http://www.americanfreepress.net/Conspiracy/11_02%20Peculiar%20Ties%20Connect%20Boy.htm

---

--

a study conducted by University of Pennsylvania on child sex abuse

http://caster.ssw.upenn.edu/~restes/CSEC_Files/Exec_Sum_020220.pdf
( link is a .pdf file)


--
British link to 'snuff' videos

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4070446,00.htm

'Promise me you're not ripping me off,' says the Italian.

'Relax, I can assure you this one really dies,' the Russian responds.

'The last time I paid and I didn't get what I wanted.'

'What do you want?'

'To see them die.'

--

(1 paragraph)

Indeed, my conclusion from a lifetime of psychohistorical study of childhood and society is that the history of humanity is founded upon the abuse of children. Just as family therapists today find that child abuse often functions to hold families together as a way of solving their emotional problems, so, too, the routine assault of children has been society's most effective way of maintaining its collective emotional homeostasis. Most historical families once practiced infanticide, erotic beating and incest. Most states sacrificed and mutilated their children to relieve the guilt of adults. Even today, we continue to arrange the daily killing, maiming, molestation and starvation of children through our social, military and economic activities. I would like to summarize here some of the evidence I have found as to why child abuse has been humanity's most powerful and most successful ritual, why it has been the cause of war and social violence, and why the eradication of child abuse and neglect is the most important social task we face today.

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/05_history.html

--
(should listen to this one)

Alex Jones interviews Dr. David Bannon, former InterPol Assassin. Bannon has first hand knowledge of the operations of child sex rings and was prevented from investigating elite connections by his superiors.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bannon_07_17_03.html

--
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #111
181. egad
hadn't seen these. Don't like the nose in the computer progressed photos but look at the original of Johnny. His nose and the nose of Jeff Gannon to the right look pretty eerily similar.

Nice work and thanks for posting.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #181
182. you know something.....
i was watching the videos of Gannon interviews last night, and i thought it was odd that they would never show him from the left (show HIS right side of his face). if we could see him from that angle, it would be easier to compare him to the original pic of Gosch.

There were so many things i noticed in those videos that makes me think even more that it is him. he looked really nervous, he doesn't speak with much emotion and some of the things he says sound rehearsed. he seems to struggle to 'remember' what his answers are. in the interview with Campbell Brown, the way he says "My name is James.......Guckert". -he almost sounds like a little kid! i could be proven wrong, but i am almost cconvinced that it is him. why do you think he won't leave the spotlight? i think this is why he wants so much attention. he is doing anything he can to stay in public view.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #182
186. OMG
The fear, yes, discernable. Haven't seen recent interviews (can't stomach it). But I DID see the first interview. I thought he was talking from a "feed".

Public eye, some protection in that maybe? Can we get any of the others back here to help check out possible ways to prove the hypothesis false? For example, if we can get photos from college yearbook?

Although he high school photo did nothing for me + the name was wrong, it was good to be able to compare it.

Any ideas on how to keep this thread of investigation going?

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #186
187. well
it seems like we can't ANY info on his past. i wonder why :shrug:

why doesn't he talk about his family? who are his parents? who are his friends? :shrug: i just find it all a bit strange.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #187
188. what about the college graduation info?
Supposedly he graduated from college in Pennsylvania. Isn't that a place to start? IF it's true that is.........
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
115. This may be him in High School - can't see it too clearly
anyone able to blow up?

http://www.iu5.org/fsd/team/1987.htm


Front row: Matt Zito, Jeff Dauphinee, Pete Burton, Jerry Stubenhofer, RC Chase, Chris Spath, Row2 Mike McGuire, Jeff Guckert, Pat Paris, Neil Loeslein, Jim Murray, Dave Spath, TJ Hetz, Dave Tyler, Korac Timon, Brianna Beeby, Coach Paulson

Another awesome season for the Fairview Golfer's



{Top Left to Right) Coach Paulson, B. Beeby, C. Adamski, T. Halmi, J. Stubenhofer, J. Dauphine, N. Loeslin, C. Smith, D. Tyler, J. Guckert, (Bottom l-r) P. Parris, R. Chase, M. Zito, T. Hetz, C.Spath, J. Murray,T. Kuvshinikov

Fairview again dominated the county in Golf

He's got to be only 35 -36 years old, if he was in high school in 1986 - 1987.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #115
120. How's this?
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #120
124. that doesn't look like him at all
neither of them, none of them.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #124
145. I see chin dimple and lower lip similarites but I still don't think this
is him. Seems to me the eyes are too dep set. In fact they are as deep set as the other kidnapped boy from the paper, but the chn dimple and hair color don't match. I don't think it's him.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #120
147. All together, I think the chin is the same, I've been searching all
combinations of names...






I don't know, that left eye has the same expression and slant...
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #147
148. that is NOT him
sorry, that newest pic found from that school looks NOTHING like him. nothing at all, except for the chin, but how many males in this world have a dimple chin? millions. i think he looks a lot like Gosch but NOTHING like this kid from the school photo.
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #115
123. Another Name??
Listed under the first picture is Jeff Guckert.
The second picture has J. Guckert.

I thought it was James Guckert and Jeff Gannon

Tried to crop and enlarge top picture --- but not enough resolution in original scan.

However age would be about right (for Johnny Gosch)
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. I agree. The name should be James Guckert and not Jeff Guckert.
Confused with these pics.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
116. From Kos
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #116
118. Ears very similar and there's that chin cleft again. Hmmm. n/t
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. That looks like Gannon except for the ears.
Gannon's seem to stick out more? Could it be the bald head that makes it look that way? The eyes, nose, chin and mouth look alike to me.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #121
125. wtf?
i don't think that kid looks ANYTHING like Gannon.
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #125
128. no kidding?
Looking at the eyes, mouth and dimpled chin...it looked like him to me. It must not be him anyway because it's the wrong name? LOL....shows ya how good my eye is! :silly:
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #118
129. No Cheek Bones
The cheek bone structure is not there.
I vote no.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #118
139. I think it looks a lot like him...
That chin is the tell tale!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #116
126. LINK IS NOT WORKING FOR ME!! N/T
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
130. guys, this Gannon/Gosch connection story is spreading
google "gosch gannon"

then try "gosch gannon free republic", for some reason that showed a few more.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #130
131. WTF? This is freaky.....is it just my computer?
click on this link (you might have to copy/paste, i'm using
plain text for this) - and see if this happens to you - at
first, you can scroll down the page and start reading a really
long bunch of news, info, etc, and you will see Johnny Gosch
and Jeff Gannon names highlighted........then all of a sudden
the page jumps back up to the top, and you can't read the text
anymore. WTF?

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:6JtM1sMDYBsJ:www.aboutconference.com/texas-conference-for-women.html+jeff+gannon+johnny+gosch&hl=en&client=firefox-a
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #131
132. Wow. That is very weird.
I keep reloading the page and try to quickly do a Ctrl-C to copy that text into my Word Processor.

This is some of what is at that link before it disappears:

The Franklin Coverup

On December 31, 1968, Franklin Credit Union was founded in a minority neighborhood in Omaha, Nebraska. The primary purpose was to provide loans to minorities. In August, 1970, Lawrence E. "Larry" King, Jr., (a black man, not television talk show host) and fast-rising "star" in the Republican party, became manager and principle executive. Larry King was indicted by a Federal grand jury on May 19, 1989 and later tried and convicted of fraud and income tax evasion directly related to the Franklin Credit Union matter. He remains incarcerated in federal prison.

FBI- IRS RAID--On November 4, 1988, the Franklin Credit Union was raided and closed by the FBI and the IRS. Thirty-nine million dollars was missing. Shortly thereafter, reports began to circulate concerning pornography, videotapes, and photographs which had been confiscated from the Franklin Credit Union by the FBI. Then, in a trickle- which soon grew to a flood- other allegations began to arise. These allegations involved drugs, sexual misconduct, child abuse, pornography- even satanic activity. The names of prominent individuals in the Omaha community began to surface as those involved in these criminal activities.

GRAND JURY THROWS OUT CHARGES--On January 10, 1989, the Nebraska State legislature constituted a special committee to look into the allegations with State Senator Loran Schmit as Chairman. On January 30, 1990, Nebraska State Attorney General, Robert Spire, called for a grand jury to investigate allegations. February 6, 1990, former County District Judge Samuel Van Pelt was appointed a special prosecutor for the Douglas County Grand Jury, which convened on March 12, 1990. On July 23, 1990, after hearing many hours of testimony, the grand jury issued an unusual and unprecedented report throwing out all of the allegations concerning sexual child abuse and labeling the charges a "carefully crafted hoax".

VICTIM/WITNESSES NAME PROMINENT CITIZENS AS PERPETRATORS--Eighty children initially came forward as a result of newspaper publicity of the raid and subsequent stories in the local news. These children identified some of the most prominent citizens in the Omaha area as involved, including then Omaha Chief of Police, Bob Wadman; former Omaha World Herald newspaper publisher, Harold Andersen; Eugene Mahoney, former Omaha vice squad officer and later head of the Nebraska Forestry Service (he has a park named after him); former Omaha World Herald entertainment columnist, Peter Citron; Alan Baer, Knights of Ak-Sar-Ben, Financier; and Omaha County Judge Theodore Carlson. The children who came forward reported, among other things, satanic ceremonies of human and animal sacrifice.

VICTIM/WITNESS TROY BONER RECANTS HIS TESTIMONY UNDER DURESS--Initially four victim/witnesses involved in the satanic cult/sex/drug ring were cooperative. Two of the four victim/witnesses, Troy Boner and Danny King, recanted their testimony.One of the children who recanted his testimony was Troy Boner, a young teenager. Troy Boner recanted after his brother, Shawn Boner, died allegedly of suicide by a Russian Roulette gunshot wound on January 17, 1991. Troy Boner told John De Camp, attorney for some of the witnesses, that his brother was afraid of guns. Boner later left the Omaha area and disappeared. Danny King has also disappeared.Years later, on October 27, 1993, Troy Boner made a sworn statement in which he said that he had recanted his original testimony because, "I truly believed and still do believe that it was a situation where I must either ̃lie or die’, and at the insistence primarily of the Federal Bureau of Investigation officials who were dealing with me at that time, specifically Mr. Mott and Mr. Culver." (p. 306)Two of the victim/witnesses who refused to recant were Alisha Owen and Paul Bonacci. They were both indicted for perjury on the basis of their testimony before the grand jury. They are now adults, but were children when they were first recruited into the satanic cult/sex/drug ring.

VICTIM/WITNESS ALISHA OWEN IMPRISONED--Alisha Owen testified at the grand jury in March of 1990 that when she was 14 years of age she had sex with the then Omaha Chief of Police, Robert Wadman. Because of this testimony, she was charged with perjury. While on bail awaiting trial, she attended college and was editor of the school newspaper. She was also an honor student.On August 8, 1990, Alisha Owen entered a plea of innocent. On November 9, 1990, Alisha Owen’s brother was found dead in a correction center cell, said to have committed suicide by hanging.Alisha Owen was convicted of first offense perjury in 1991and was sentenced on August 8, 1991, to nine to 27 years in prison. During her prison term, she was in solitary confinement for a period longer than any female citizen in the history of the State of Nebraska.Alisha was out on parole for a short period until September, 1997.In September, 1997, television show "Inside Edition" reported that Johnny Gosch was still alive. Johnny Gosch is a highly publicized 1982 kidnap victim from West De Moines, Iowa, who has also been named as a victim in the Franklin child abuse matters, as described below.One week after this show was aired, Nebraska authorities picked up Alicia Owen, and without explanation, said she must serve out the remaining lengthy sentence in prison. In spite of this, Alisha refused to recant. Alisha is still incarcerated. Alisha’s parents are raising Alisha’s daughter, Amanda Jayne, who according to Alisha was sired by Omaha Chief of Police, Robert Wadman. Alisha was 15 years old when she had Amanda.

VICTIM/WITNESS PAUL BONACCI IMPRISONED--In November, 1991, Ted Gunderson (this writer, see resume in reference list), was contacted by the Nebraska Leadership Conference and asked to become involved in the investigation of the Franklin case. Paul Bonacci, his first interviewee, then in his early 20’s, said he had been active in the operation of the satanic cult/sex/drug ring network since 6 years of age. Paul Bonacci first reported his abuse by Larry King, Alan Baer and others in 1986, to the Omaha Police Department, two years before the Franklin Credit Union case began.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #132
134. i tried to do that
but it wouldn't stay up for me long enough to get to the Jeff Gannon part! wtf?
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #134
138. Here is the section about Gannon
Looking for the Conspiracy Media Citizen has done a good job of covering the Gannon story from a liberal perspective. Today, they found a column that reinforces their view that censorship is good, as long as the target is on the right, and that it must have been a Karl Rove plot: Where's The Public Outrage?

Leonard Pitts, Jr. wonders why the American public isn't more outraged by Jeff Gannon's ability to gain access to the White House: Bush spokesman Scott McClellan has pleaded ignorance, saying that, "In this day and age, when you have a changing media, it's not an easy issue to decide, to try to pick and choose who is a journalist. '' Which is patently ridiculous. Contrary to the press secretary's Hamlet-like agonizing, it's not all that hard to know who is and is not a reporter. If an individual reports for a recognized media outlet that observes customary standards of journalistic integrity -- even if it tends to view the world through a conservative or liberal editorial prism -- that person is a reporter. But if the person works for an outlet that simply promotes, or advocates for, one political party or another, then the line between reporter and shill has been well and truly crossed. It's not brain surgery.

So you'll have to forgive me for not extending the benefit of the doubt to McClellan. My problem is that he speaks for an administration with a long record of manipulating truth and propagandizing the public. His point is that McClellan must have done this on purpose.

My primary complaint is with a comment on this post: Steve said. . . Its a great read and I agree with the column, but these guys are just going to stonewall the whole thing anyway. Who knows how many other reporters and columnists are on the payroll? They are just going to keep getting away with it, Im afraid.

I answered this comment on the post as follows. Where is the evidence for this: "So planting a party stooge among the real reporters hardly seems out of character." Or for this in the comments: "Who knows how many other reporters and columnists are on the payroll?"These baseless charges are undermining your credibility. Isn't it far more likely that Gannon did this on his own, not as part of some sinister Karl Rove/Dick Cheney plot? I recommend that you look for the most probable cause for an event, not the most far fetched. As Nick Diamos said, "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."



So, I don't know that much about HTML code, but it looks like some fairly conservative blogger has compiled a bunch of information and it somehow shows up on that link to the Texas Conference for Woman's site. :shrug: Very, very odd! However, I think it goes along with the statement in his blog, "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."


I AM NOT agreeing with that statement in reference to Gannon/Guckert's presence at the Whitehouse however!
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #134
144. Here, it's a Pod-Blog, probebley gets out of range when it stops....
JOHNNY GOSCH, KIDNAPPED CHILD, CONNECTION TO FRANKLIN CASE-- In 1989, Paul Bonacci confessed to his attorney, John De Camp, his part in the kidnapping of 12-year-old Johnny Gosch on September 5, 1982, in West De Moines, Iowa, a highly publicized missing child case. Paul Bonacci was 14, almost 15, years old at the time. Rusty Nelson also testified in U.S. District Court, Omaha Nebraska, on February 5, 1999, that one of the victims in the Franklin case was Johnny Gosch.Noreen N. Gosch, Johnny’s mother, received almost no assistance from the local West De Moines police or the FBI in investigating her case. She held a press conference and received her first death threats. One male telephone caller said, "Stop making waves or you will die". Noreen Gosch now realizes she had begun "knocking on the door" of the Franklin satanic cult/sex/drug ring case.Noreen Gosch obtained private investigator Dennis Whalen who had solved a missing child case in Carter Lake, Iowa. While investigating the Gosch case, Whalen told Noreen Gosch of a slave auction in Houston, Texas. He asked her "Would you go ,000 to buy your son back, if he goes across the auction block?" Noreen Gosch borrowed the funds. Unfortunately, Whalen informed Noreen Gosch that Johnny was not at the Texas auction. Whalen was discovered as helping Noreen Gosch and was forbidden from attending other auctions.Noreen Gosch reports that within six months of Johnny’s kidnapping, a young man named Paul Bishop contacted her. He came to Des Moines and identified himself as CIA. He told Noreen that an international kidnapping/pornography ring kidnapped Johnny. He told her Johnny was still alive and being sexually used in pornography, prostitution, and perversion. He said he wanted Noreen’s help. Noreen Gosch replied, "How can I help you, what does the CIA want with me?" He replied, "We need one stable parent in this situation, to act, when directed to speak out to the public as to what happened to your son."Noreen Gosch doubted who he was. To convince her, he produced a complete dossier of her entire family including those who have died. She was given a code name of "Firefox" for him and a phone number to contact him. She learned that Bishop’s location was Langley Air Force Base, CIA Headquarters.Paul Bishop arranged for Noreen Gosch to testify in August 1984, at the "Organized Crime Senate Hearings" in Washington, D.C., before Senator Specter. Books were made available by the FBI showing children in a Sears Roebuck type of catalog offering children for sale.Noreen Gosch reports Paul Bishop eventually vanished without a trace. Suddenly the phone number was no good.Noreen Gosch reports that it was to be years before she learned that the CIA was part of the International kidnapping and pornography ring. She and others have attempted to obtain copies of the catalog of children for sale and, "There has never been a single reply to any request to produce this document". She also attempted to obtain from the Washington Press Core photographs from the hearing, also with no success. Noreen Gosch reports that Paul Bishop was in his early 20’s and called her, "Mom". She now wonders if he was one of the "lost" children.Noreen Gosch founded "The Johnny Gosch Foundation", a month after the kidnapping and developed a program called "In Defense of Children". Noreen Gosch wrote the "Johnny Gosch bill", which was passed into law in Iowa on July 1, 1984. A year later, Missouri as well as seven other states adopted the bill and passed it into law. This law, which is still called "The Johnny Gosch Law", provides the immediate involvement of police when a child is missing, instead of the previous 72 hour policy of waiting.Terry Dunn Meurer, with Dave Bell Associates at that time, and now with "Unsolved Mysteries" produced a documentary called "MISSING", which included the story about Johnny and three other children who were missing. Some of these children were found dead and the others are still missing. That documentary was aired in 1983 on HBO.NOREEN GOSCH AND PAUL BONACCI MEET--Following Paul Bonacci confessing in Noreen N. Gosch can be reached by phone at 515-221-3220 and by Email at Ngosch@aol.com .NOREEN GOSCH MEETS WITH GARY CARADORI’S WIDOW--



, Mrs. Sandy Caradori. Mrs. Caradori told Noreen Gosch that within two months of Mr. Caradori being killed, he told her that he had received information on Johnny which led him to two prisons to investigate further. Upon returning home from these investigations, he told his wife, "I know what happened to Johnny Gosch, the boy is still alive, I’m going to call his parents." To her knowledge, he did telephone the Gosch home. Noreen Gosch indicated that Mr. Caradori must have spoken with Mr. Gosch, Johnny’s father, who in turn kept the information about Johnny being alive from his wife, Noreen. Noreen Gosch reports that she now knows that Mr. Gosch is connected to the Franklin case. She is on the process of formally releasing his information to the press. She has already provided this information in detail to many concerned parties.

The Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Police Department was also contacted by the Tallahassee Police Department, because the van, which the adults were driving, traced back to an organization in Washington, D.C. known as "The Finders". Search warrants were obtained by the Washington Metropolitan Police Department for two locations of the Finders: 1307 Fourth St. N.E., and 3918/3920 W St. N.W., Washington, D.C.Information was developed by the Washington D.C. Metropolitan Police Department that sex orgies and "blood rituals" had taken place at these two locations. They also suspected an unsolved murder took place at one of the two locations. A large collection of photographs of nudes, believed to be members of the Finders, was obtained during this search.An album contained a series of photographs of adults and children dressed in white sheets participating in a blood ritual. The ritual centered around the execution

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:6JtM1sMDYBsJ:www.aboutconference.com/texas-conference-for-women.html+jeff+gannon+johnny+gosch&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&strip=1













http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:6JtM1sMDYBsJ:www.aboutconference.com/texas-conference-for-women.html+jeff+gannon+johnny+gosch&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&strip=1




Here's his blog: http://ripnread.blogspot.com/2005/02/rip-read-blogger-podcast-for-2005-02_21.html

and: http://mediacitizen.blogspot.com/2005/02/wheres-public-outrage.html
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #131
156. even weirder: try without the "&client=firefox-a" at the end
of the url: there's no article text.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #130
133. Probably the links are from DU, bloggers and fr because we're the only
ones talking about it. That's what I figure.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #133
135. it's still interesting to see
that just from talking about it here, you can google it and get some sites to come up.
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. K I C K E-Gads another interesting Wrinkle thread...
:wow: :scared:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #135
141. Speaking of that...
The Gannon/Guckert/Gosch did start here right?
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #141
142. i think so, yeah
pretty sure.....
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idiosyncratic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #141
146. I think so. The first "wrinkle" thread started Saturday night
and it was very exciting to read it as it unfolded.
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-23-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #130
137. Google > News> Search> Jeff Gannon
Google News Search Jeff Gannon and the first thing that comes up is:

Jeff Gannon, GOP Pedophilia & Male Prostitution
Conspiracy Planet - 5 hours ago
Now that is has been discovered that "Jeff Gannon" (real name James D. Guckert), a "reporter" for Talon News Service, a front operation run by the conservative ...



Break on through to the other side!!!!!! Way To Go DU!




:kick:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
151. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
152. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #152
154. Wasn't someone on the first wrinkle thread going to find/post info
on Townsend?

I also am wondering where some people who had more info and said they'd be back to post it have gone to...?
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
158. How to get a look at Guckert's Drivers License?
This is the ID he claims to use to gain his WH pass.
Is this something that a person can write to the BMV to get a copy?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #158
159. He was married?
:crazy:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
160. Kick! Where did everyone go? eom
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #160
162. i'm still here
:hi:
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
163. here's another little thing to think about
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #163
164. Remember the Hunter S. Thompson connection in the first thread?
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 07:22 PM by Faye
here is the title of the newest blog on Gannon's site:



Fear and Loathing in the Press Room



:wtf: :tinfoilhat:
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DearAbby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #164
167. Kick
:tinfoilhat: waiting
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
168. kick
:tinfoilhat: where did everyone go? :shrug: :cry:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #168
176. I'm still here too!
:hi:

Have our detectives given up...? Is it too dangerous a story to pursue...? :tinfoilhat:
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
169. I keep coming back to the names---
Reading some earlier articles, they say that Jeff Gannon's real name is John Guckert
So is it John or James?
"The sad and sordid tale of Jeff Dont Call Me John Guckert Gannon is a final nail in the coffin, as far as I am concerned."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3090416

Jon K -- I agree, in the press conferences, he was Jeff. But when he went through the guard shack -- he was John Guckert. He had to have entered under his real name. I don't have the link but Ari Fleischer apparently smelled something was up with Jeff Gannon and would not call on him because he thought he was a party hack. Eberle at Talon had to assure him that GOPUSA was not a Republican entity for Fleischer to begin calling on Gannon then. But the most interesting part of Fleischer's remarks, as I remember them, was that he didn't know Gannon was operating under an alias. He said he is not sure whether Scott McClellan knew. (If I have butchered names here -- I apologize; I'm just not at a place I can double check at the moment.)

Sid Blumenthal shared with me his view that it is not legal for anyone to operate under an alias in the White House. I don't know how to check that out -- but the principle sounds interesting. If there are sleuths who want to dig into that, could be an interesting op-ed or post.

Steve Clemons
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:fRFXF9g_LlEJ:www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/000330.html+%22john+guckert%22&hl=en


While I was at work today, I looked up Guckert in the Reference USA database. Pennsylvania has the greatest concentration of Guckerts. But oddly enough, there are 2 John Guckerts, I think father(81) and son(47), that live in Marshalltown, Iowa. On the map, it looks to be just outside of Des Moines, Iowa.
I wonder if somehow Johnny Gosch would have known this man too, like he knew Gannon. I can't access the database from home --- but I can't seem to let go of the names.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #169
172. names
AND,

don't forget the birthmark and the age. Not to mention that chin.

How to find out about those other Guckerts? Father/son.........

Maybe that could rule OUT our hypothesis. In science you advance by proving your hypothesis false, if you can. Then you can go on to the next one.
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s-cubed Donating Member (860 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #172
173. Geneology: Possible source of jimmy/jeff's background.
Edited on Fri Feb-25-05 10:09 AM by scubed
I find it very strange that no one has been able to track down our boy, which leads me to think that guckert is a fake name. But if so, why would anyone pick that, and why would he pronouce it two different ways?

Regardless, I checked for guckerts and gannons in this website:

http://www.kindredkonnections.com/cgi-bin/disptext?-1+0+000000+English+0-0+pg1a

It's a geneology website, which is subscription only if you want more than just to check whether a name is there or not.

There are lots more gannons than guckerts. No james d, only a couple of james', and no jeffs at all. Only about 240 guckerts listed from 1900 to 2005. If guckert is his real name (BIG IF), then this database might have information on his parents. I'm not a geneologist, so I'm not too sure how to go about this.

Any experienced geneologists want to take a crack at this?

edit:spelling

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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #173
179. HE pronounced it two different ways? Gotta link?
That's NOT how people treat their names. We know that. Name = identity. Even if it's your given name and you "go by" a pseudonym.

For what it's worth I think Guckert is another pseudonym. But finding the connection/source of the name is another thing.

Geneology.....okay. Do any of the Guckerts match up with his supposed beginnings in Pennsylvania? Remember he graduated from college in Pennsylvania with a BA in PE? Can we track his history back far enough to find his real family of origin?

If we could, and if we can get photos, etc, then we might be able to say definitively that he is not Gosch. (Sorry, that keeps nagging at me.)
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #169
235. I googled John Guckert and found one
Edited on Mon Feb-28-05 01:31 AM by imaginary girl
that used to belong to Sigma Phi Sigma college fraternity at William Penn University (on alumni list)

http://www.sigmaphisigma.org/members1970s.html

... address?

1975 John Guckert Marshalltown IA

This is probably the 50 yo you mention. I wonder, though, if he or his father would have been somehow visible to Gosch? You're right that it's not far from Des Moines, but far enough that it would take a particular connection.
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #235
240. John Guckert -- Marshalltown, Iowa
From my earlier post -- I was going on my memory. (Bad idea most days)

This is from the Social Security Death index from Ancestry Plus database. Since he died in 1981 (not 81 yrs old)I think its OK to include SSN.


Name: John Guckert
SSN: 484-38-5398
Last Residence: 50158 Marshalltown, Marshall, Iowa, USA
Born: 23 July 1892
Died: July 1981
State(year)SSN issued: Iowa (1952-1953)

Here is the link to article -- but it is a paid database.
http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=ssdi&gsfn=&gsln=guckert&gspl=18%2cIowa&submit=Search&ti=5535&prox=1&gss=angs&fh=1

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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #235
241. Jim Guckert -- Delaware
Info is still from Ancestry Plus database.

Jim Guckert
5721 KENNETT PIKE
WILMINGTON, DE
19807-1311
Phone number is listed --- PM me if you want it.

It is listed as Jim not James
(same Jim Guckert that that owes back taxes)

Would someone live in Delaware and work in DC?

5 listings for Guckerts in DC. --- all deceased.
Edward d. 1976
Mary d. 1974
Rosa d. 1978
Seraphine d. 1979
William d. 1972


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lies and propaganda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
177. im sure that you investigators have read this.....
This was the first thing thati read about Bohemian Grove and i have been obsessed since. This is Alex Jones interviewing once Republican Senator, John Decamp.This interview floored me, knocked me on my ass.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/210704johndecamp.htm

And for the record,this thread is absolutely amazing. DU is my 'liberal media,' my refuge.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
178. Hey!!!! What's up?
The work is NOT finished. This part, the picking through the various theories and bits of connected thread is the tedious but necessary next step.

Has everyone lost interest? This needs to be resolved, IMHO. I don't quite have the connections or the skills to obtain the info, but DO have pretty damn good analytical skills for sorting through stuff and finding connections, alternative theories, etc.

But we need people to stay engaged. Is it the case that once the CorpoMedia decides a story is dead, then DU'ers lie down and roll over too?
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #178
184. I'm still here
I think we need to receive an update from anyone who is gathering information. Even if it's just a little bit. We need a reason to go forward with this.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #178
193. Click this thread and you can get to the videos to hear Guckert
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
185. here's a question
we know Gannon reads DU. He asked Skinner to please be sure that he is #1 on the Top Ten Conservative Idiots list. Don't you think there is a chance he has seen these threads? Why isn't he making comments about them on his blog? Why isn't he saying 'these crazy conspiracy theory nuts on DU are saying i might be some child who was abudcted over 20 years ago by evil pedophiles....."
???????????????????????
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #185
192. You're right. He should say something about that.
The James Gannon/Gosch thing has been mentioned on several blogs too.
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #185
198. He just did...more or less....
Edited on Sat Feb-26-05 03:48 AM by LibInTexas
Despite all the pleas from the Left to go over to the 'dark side' and expose the 'corrupt Bush administration' simply isn't going to happen. My faith and my ideology are rock solid.
Gannon/GLuckert/?

Where is he from?

You can't google the man and find ANYTHING! (OK, except male porno sites.)

If you google even my common name, I'm there. Spooky, but understandable.


This guy is a ghost. Unless the powers that be are are doing him some new identity.

JKG...like the kid abducted in West Des Moines...and still under the power of the CIA and the WH. A place called "Capitol Escorts" in DC, a suspected CIA front.

The Franklin Cover-up suddenly comes up, and the whole connection starts to make sense. Hunter Thompson dies weirdly on Monday, he was implicated in Franklin. Just as this whole strange story started to become hot again.

-->I have just touched on the countless anecdotes in these last paragraphs, there are so more.

By the way. Even as we (I) type, google links are disappearing.

Links with "Hunter Thompson" and "Franklin Cover-up" Boolean in one line, have disappeared. Many, when you click on them, go to some strange real estate site.


We've had Eyes Wide Shut


SOMETHING IS GOING ON.

...and it's scary.





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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #198
199. Where does he speak of being or not being Johnny Gosch?
I don't see it.
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JackD76 Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
189. Republicans
I hear that republicans are lining up behind the gay hooker/white house reporter. If this happened under clinton, there would be another impeachment.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #189
196. they don't seem to really be defend HIM
they are defending their own sorry asses.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
190. I think that the Eberles are worthy
of serious scrutiny. Bruce has been in the fund-raising business forever and has been implicated in several scams. If he has the history, and has been painted by a particular brush his involvement would seem key. I don't know how to do this stuff. I spent alot of time with Google and all I get is a shit-load of names and a head-ache. Wish I knew what I was doing.
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republicannincompoop Donating Member (44 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #190
195. I Think You Are Correct:
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
191. Update --- college info
This is not much
Waiting on picture or more info from alum of PA college.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=175x3641


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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #191
200. Wik is nice, but do you trust it?
Anybody can enter anything they want.

It's crap.
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-25-05 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
194. Question on new identity
For someone to change their name --- this is just a legal document?
Is there a court record of this. Is it public info?
What kind of court?

For someone to change their SS# --- do they apply for a new one (this sounds really dumb) or do they take over the number of someone who has died? Then do they have to use the name of that person? or maybe then they change it.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
205. Link to thread, where I've links to other Franklin mentioning threads.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #205
206. i wish more people cared
:(
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #206
209. Many of us do care, Faye. And, I have sent a variety of summaries...
....to various folk during the past 4 days.

Drip, drip, drip, drip,.....we'll break through. Count on it.


Peace.


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #209
210. did you get any feedback on it?
i am convinced at this point that it is him. what have been people's reactions? anything?
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #210
212. At this point, the little 'feedback' I've gotten is = FEAR.
I think folk are truly afraid of the reality that this 'jeff/jim/gannon/guckert' has zero 'background'; zero 'past'; and, that causes them to be truly frightful of the possibility that he is, indeed, Johnny Gosch.

I don't think we'll have to wait very long to see this bubble pop.

Peace.


TBO;24/7
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #212
217. that is half the reason i am convinced.
we can't get ANY background on him whatsoever. where and who are his parents? why doesn't he mention them? who are his siblings? who are his friends? what is his birthday? we know nothing and he mentions nothing.

it just all seems to add up for me :shrug:

it's driving me kinda nuts, b/c if i believe this is really him, that he is really Gosch, i sympathize for him and feel the urge to want to defend him in the Gannon bashing threads on this forum.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #217
219. I feel the same way you do...
Glad to know that I'm not the only one that wants answers. There were so many people who were on the case in the beginning on this thread who had lots of info-they've all but disappeared! Where did they go?! :shrug: What happened?! Is there something going on that they can't tell us?! Or is everyone afraid?! It all kind of gives me chills... :scared:
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #217
220. Faye,
Guckert doesn't mention any of that is because he doesn't want anyone to know. I dont' know how we'll get that info from him. The guy talks a lot, maybe it will slip. I don't know. And I too think Guckert may be Gosch (maybe not as much as you), which is why I haven't been that hard on him.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #217
228. When 'grasswire' (aka WebDems) first took note of 'gannon' in Feb 2004,...
...a process began.

But, it was 'jeff/jim' who brought the 'searchlight' directly onto himself on 26 Jan 2005 and with his subsequent 'taunting' of DU to up his ranking in the 'conservative idiots' (or whatever its called) category. As you know, I, and others, have hypothesized that 'jeff/jim' knew precisely what he was doing -- he needed a big bunch of folk to know he existed -- he needed the 'searchlight' to stay intensely focused on him.

Fact is, we know NOTHING from 'jim/jeff' about who he is that wasn't already known (by grasswire, a few other DUers, some of Daschle's folk and probably others) a year or more ago. With all the attention he has brought to himself he has remained quite skilled at 'hiding in plain sight.'

Are people, besides Andy, speaking with Ms Gosch, with 'Paul Bishop,' with others; one can imagine that they are.

My attitude is whether 'jim/jeff' is being bashed or if folk are truly trying to expose how someone (with what we know of his background) was able to write so much propaganda under the guise of 'journalist'; how he was able to have ready access to the West Wing of the White House for more than two years; was able to sit within a few feet of the President of the USA; was able to have access to documents no other journalist had (as best we know); .....; what matters is that he intentionally brought the 'searchlight' to focus on him and everyone should keep on bringing whatever forms of attention to him that they can because that may be all that is keeping him alive.

Peace.

p.s. Faye, check your pm


TBO;24/7

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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #210
226. The reactions i have seen elsewhere is to dismiss it as a freep...
distraction from what they consider the "real" Gannon problems. This is from the Netscape Forums.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #226
227. i don't think it really 'distracts'
i mean, regardless, he was a fake reporter for a fake news agency who attended WH press conferences to throw easy questions at Bush or McClellan - and that he was a male prostitute. it's not like we are 'forgetting' all of this.

the only problem i see with us getting into this and thinking that he is Gosch is the sympathy it may cause. i already can't really bear to read threads bashing him or making fun of him. :(
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #227
231. Yeah, I understand. I have been reserving judgment on this one but
the Oswald situation KILLS me. How can people feel it is OK to manipulate another human beings life for their own gain like this? I am mostly disgusted with a large part of humanity. Always somebody hurting someone. I want these people stopped but i am getting VERY tired.

I dunno, sorry for the vent. It is all overwhelming.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
207. kick
wtf? where is everyone? this is not over. let's talk.
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norml Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
211. Sex, Lies, Videotape, Teenagers, Drugs, Blackmail, and Death
Sex, Lies, Videotape, Teenagers, Drugs, Blackmail, and Death

Crime/Corruption Front Page News Keywords: CRAIG J. SPENCE, BARNEY FRANK, HENRY VINSON, GEORGE BUSH, DONALD GREGG, TED KOPPEL
Source: various, mostly The Washington Times
Published: 1989-1997 Author: various, including Paul M. Rodriguez, George Archibald, Michael Hedges, Jerry Seper
Posted on 01/24/2000 14:39:27 PST by Wallaby

Sex, Lies, Videotape, Teenagers, Drugs, Blackmail, and Death
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY


In recent weeks, a few posts and bumps on the Free Republic have involved stories of the use of boy prostitutes and surveillance for the purpose of blackmail by the highest levels of government. In one instance, dignitaries from 17 countries attending a 1993 APEC conference were placed under surveillance while some were being compromised by a child sex ring.

The boys are believed to have been 15 to 17 years old. As shocking as this may be, some say it's routine. A former Bush economic adviser observes, "The sex? That's done all the time. If a foreign diplomat wants a companion, the State Department provides it. It doesn't matter if it's a man or woman. They have a special fund set up for that."
(Snooping on Allies Embarrasses U.S., Timothy W. Maier, Insight Magazine October 15, 1998; reposted at King drops appeal of $1 million judgment)
A second case involving a child prostitute ring with connections to the highest levels of government occurred in Omaha, Nebraska. Less than two weeks ago, Lawrence E. King Jr. quietly dropped his appeal of a $1 million lawsuit judgment against him by Paul Bonacci, who alleged King and others forced him to take part in a child-prostitution ring. According to Bonacci and other witnesses, teenagers were sexually abuse at parties in Omaha, New York, Chicago and Washington. During this period, Lawrence E. King Jr. leased a Washington house located near Embassy Row. He fostered high-level political contacts, and was given the honor of singing the National Anthem at the 1984 Republican National Convention. The parties to which children were flown were divided into "good" parties and "bad" parties:

''The way she described it, some were good parties and some were bad parties,'' said this source, who went on to describe scenes of abuse, including one in which the victim, a teen-ager, was made to stand nude at a party while she was offered at auction to the highest bidder.
(Nebraska Inquiry Is Given File on Sex Abuse of Foster Children,WILLIAM ROBBINS, The New York Times, December 25, 1988)
In an editorial in the Omaha World-Herald, one witness is even quoted as claiming to have seen George Bush at a party:

A portion of the editorial said: ''One child, who has been under psychiatric care, is said to believe that she saw George Bush at one of King's parties. This is the same person whose story of a severed head was looked into. Neither tale could be verified.''
snip http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a388cd49f5ce8.htm
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Liberal In Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
213. Will everyone please stop citing Free Republic as a source?
They are inaccurate, they have an agenda.

If you find something on the Freeper site, check it out. Many times it goes nowhere.

The Omaha World Herald is not hyphenated, for starters. Next, all lot of what they've paraphrased is from DeCamp's book, and it's been throughly mangled.

Some of the Herald's "quotes" I cannot find attribution for. It may be possible to inquire at this late date, but it costs bucks to go to the Omaha Public Library, where it's archived. It's not on line.

DU normally does not trust what the Freepers are doing. This is no exception.

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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #213
214. i think at one point
FR was looking into the story to discredit Barney Frank or some other Dems. maybe they stopped when they realized how involved their side was too :shrug:

i stop at nothing, when i see wrong it is wrong, i dont' care who did what.
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imaginary girl Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
215. I'm still here, I still care, and I'm staying up way too late to read this
But the birthmark was freaky and then everyone got quiet ... I'm thinking if Gannon was a fake name and could be traced to someone he was acquainted with, maybe the same is true for Guckert? Anybody checked on this angle yet?
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #215
216. Prove Gannon is Gosch by......
Sorry, but I found this thread yesterday, and read until I'm bleary eyed. But maybe I have a suggestion for one question that arose about genealogy.

If *anyone* has any of Gannon/Guckert/Gosch DNA (and can access it) a small sample can be analyzed for about $200 or less to compare his mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) to that of Mrs. Gosch. It is passed directly from mother to child.

There are a number of labs who can do this. Ancestry.com, Relative Genetics, and several others. Enough DNA can be retrieved from hair, a cigarette butt, a soft drink can, or spit (the usual method, via cheek swab) to tell if gannon is Mrs. Gosch's child.

Has this been mentioned in the last Gigabyte or so??
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #215
223. I was freaked out by the scar on his chest also.
But on one of Guckert's other pics (yes, I looked at all of them), you can't see any mark....the more famous pic where he is laying on his back with his head on pillows.
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theearthisround Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
218. Revealing statements written by Jeff Gannon shed light on his situation
Article written by Jeff Gannon:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040215020412/www.jeffgannon.com/smeared.htm

"I GOT SMEARED!"

For the second time in as many weeks, the liberal media has taken a shot at me. Recently an article appeared in the Washingtonian magazines online feature, Washington Buzz entitled, Can White House Stay on Message Amid Leaks?. In it, political writer Harry Jaffe tried to make the point that the alleged leak of a CIA agents name by someone in the administration has caused problems for a White House that had been otherwise effective in maintaining a unified front in dealing with the press corps.

While it is true that decidedly partisan reporters in the White House press corps have dominated the briefings with endless questions about leakgate, the administration does not appear on the verge of collapse from defections on the lower echelons. Neither has the administration gone into the stonewalling mode so often seen during the Clinton years. In fact, the investigation into the matter is proceeding at lightning speed.

But Jaffe suggested that the White House is reacting to the negative reporting by attacking members of the press corps. He wrote:

There are signs the White House may be going on the offensive, striking back at reporters it considers too aggressive. Both Moran and NBCs David Gregory were singled out in a dispatch published in Talon News, a news service sponsored by GOPUSA, a Republican Party news service.

Hes talking about me! Jaffe is claiming that I am a Republican Party operative instructed by the White House to write a hit piece on these two reporters. Both of those allegations are totally and completely false.


Jaffe DID NOT CLAIM HE WAS A "Republican Party operative instructed by the White House to write a hit piece on these two reporters". Gannon appears to have revealed his true motivation in an attempt to feign credibility. Similar to a murderer calling the cops to report "come quick theres been a murder!". He felt if he is the one reporting the murder he will be the last one to suspect. In the same manner Jeff Gannon feels by writing "Hes talking about me! Jaffe is claiming that I am a Republican Party operative instructed by the White House to write a hit piece on these two reporters. Both of those allegations are totally and completely false." Why the last thing anyone would think is he's "a Republican Party operative instructed by the White House to write a hit piece on these two reporters." After all, "Both of those allegations are totally and completely false."

This is of course just a small piece of the puzzle. I posted it because I believe it lends credence to the theory Jeff is a liability to those at the top.

Thank you all for your incredible investigative work, I am extremely grateful for all your incredible discoveries. Keep up the fantastic work!
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #218
221. he should have been subpoenaed 24 hours after this story broke
he could lead us to the ones who outed plame.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
222. How do we get a hold of John DeCamp?
Maybe we should ask him to look into it, to see if Guckert at least was one of the "boys" who were abused. Even if not Gosch, he could have been another one.

Didn't Johnny Gosch's mother tell Andy that she would have her PI look into it?


I've hit a stone wall, the sites I found previously are now shut down, and that includes some that I looked at in other names, like Jeff Guckert and James Gannon, so I've run out of places to look. None of the military vet sites had either name, the collage frat site is down where I found his name in a newsletter. Any suggestions anyone???
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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
224. U-shaped scar on his tongue
http://www.childsearch.org/john_gosch.html

Notes/Comments:John has freckles, a birthmark on his left cheek, a gap between his front teeth, and a U-shaped scar on his tongue. He was last seen delivering newspapers. To see a photo of John as he may look at age 30 click here. To see a photo of John as he may look at age 33 click here.

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nonny Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
225. List of those that might be able to ID J. Gosch as an adult
Noreen Gosch -- mother
Paul Bonacci -- another victim
John DeCamp --- lawyer and past senator
Larry King --- of the Franklin Community Credit Union of Omaha

Any others?
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #225
229. Not Larry King
He's still part of the problem, John DeCamp would be best bet, he's still working on the case...They killed a PI friend of his...he's pissed...
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
230. here is a site that posted a good summary, libertythink.com
is this from someone here at DU? it's a great summary of what we uncovered here.

http://www.libertythink.com/2005/02/jeff-gannon-johnny-gosch-hunter.html


ps) i still think that pic of 'Jeff Guckert' from that high school is NOT Gannon/Gosch - he looks nothing like those other pics. i wish people would stop referring to that pic.
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trudyco Donating Member (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #230
232. But it the middle initial is D isn't it? As in Dale or Daniels
While these things are interesting wrinkles I think it would be good to go back over the videos of the press conferences. I want to see what question Bush has to ask before Gannon and then his look when he calls on Gannon. Does it look like he knew Gannon threw limp wristed lobs from the beginning? What about Ari? What about Mcclellan? Also, is the text of Gannons questions similar to any of these guys or Rove? Gannon was obviously reading them so somebody wrote them for him.

As for genealogy - often information isn't shared on the living. For privacy.
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #232
233. As for genealogy - often information isn't shared on the living. For priva
True. But only as far as recorded data goes. mtDNA goes directly back through the mother's bloodline, from mother to child. Anyone descended from Ms. Gosch's furthest most maternal bloodline (or she herself) would be an exact duplicate of Johnny Gosch's.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-27-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #230
234. Thanks for the link, Faye.
I know one thing for sure, with all the pics out there of JDG, I have never seen anyone that look different in all his pics.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
237. Sherman Skolnick sure is running with this
I can't vouch for anything he says - he's usually unverifiable and hyperbolic - but FYI, here's some of what he's saying now about Gannon/Gosch:


A group of elite investigators, for many years now documenting the operation of the male prostitution ring, Omaha, Chicago, and District of Colombia, have told a very small, trusted group of old-assistants, some of the following:

===That the person using the name "Jeff Gannon" is most likely Johnny Gosch. And that the name is a tip-off in that it is the name of an editor of a major newspaper in Iowa that originally severely condemned Noreen Gosch for making an issue of the kidnapping of her twelve-year old son in 1982 who delivered newspapers for that paper.

===That Gannon alias Gosch was selected at an early age because of his cleverness and adaptability to espionage work, as the intelligence agencies are inclined to do. And that Gannon alias Gosch is part of a spy agency team so secretive its name or title is not known by those otherwise knowledgeable about secret teams.

===That Gannon alias Gosch is an expert penetration agent, through sex, compiling negative data on U.S. and foreign governmental officials. For example, fourteen members of the House and Senate are users of this whorehouse service along with at least two members of the Federal Reserve Board. The Congress members are mostly Republican that Daddy Bush, for the benefit of George W., wants to be sure they follow orders as handed down by the Anglo-American Aristocracy.


http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?message=84673&mpage=1&topic=3&showdate=2/28/05&PHPSESSID=0e461fb4bc24d80fd93460b2a28f031a
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #237
238. Thanks Minstrel Boy.
Still reading....
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manna Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #238
239. maybe this ties in
I can't wait for Dave Mcgowan to chime in on this gannongate thing, but here's a warm up to his book 'Programmed to Kill: The Politics of serial murder'.

--


1. True or False: During his tenure as Governor of the state of Texas, George W. Bush signed off on every execution order that crossed his desk.


2. True or False: Serial killer Ted Bundy once worked as a spy for Washington Governor Dan Evans, gathering intelligence on political opponents; Evans later wrote Bundy a glowing letter of recommendation to attend law school.


3. True or False: Aspiring serial killer Richard Ramirez once demonstrated his high-level political connections while on a high school trip to Washington, D.C. by arranging for his friends an impromptu private tour of the Vice President's office.


4. True or False: Serial killer Edmund Kemper's service records reveal that he was the subject of MK-ULTRA experiments while he was stationed at a U.S. military hospital in West Germany.


more here

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr65.html
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-28-05 01:32 PM
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242. Locking
It has got too big.
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