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DU Researcher Alert!! Hot Hot HOT material for Ohio recount!

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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:39 PM
Original message
DU Researcher Alert!! Hot Hot HOT material for Ohio recount!
What can we find out about this guy and his company? This is the company that tallied the Warren County vote (the "homeland security" lockdown). I've never heard of them at all and it turns out this one Bush-donor wrote the program that tallies the punchards in 41 Ohio counties and God knows where else.

Can we give him the full DU spread-em-wide treatment to find out more about the family, their business and connections? How much do they donate? Is there a link to the companies Madsen is looking at? We may have hit paydirt! What can you dig up?

love,
hedda

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/vote_fraud.html

<snip>
The votes in Ohio are officially re-counted and tallied 10 days after Election Day, Tod A. Rapp, the man who wrote the software that tabulates the votes in nearly half the counties in Ohio, told American Free Press. The outstanding provisional ballots are only counted after that, Rapp said.

Rapp, the founder of Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. of Xenia, Ohio, wrote the computer program that tallies the punch-card ballots in the centralized counting systems used in 41 counties in Ohio. Rapp, whose sons now manage the family run company, is a generous supporter of the Republican Party and the presidential campaign of George W. Bush.

The second largest vendor of vote-counting machines in Ohio, in terms of the number of counties served, is Election Systems & Software (ES&S), a privately owned company based in Omaha.

Together ES&S and Triad GSI count the votes in 80 out of the 88 counties in Ohio. ES&S, however, manages the elections and counts the votes in the most populous counties of the state.

There were numerous problems with voting machines in Ohio, where Bush reputedly won by some 136,000 votes. Some voters had to wait until 3 a.m. to cast their ballots, and a computer error gave Bush 3,893 extra votes in one precinct in Franklin County.
<snip>
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Here's Google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22t...

This guy seems to stay below a lot of the radar.
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breadandwine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
53. We must march against Fox and the rigged election.
Not talk. Action. STREET action. Action in the STREETS. Huge public protest. A joint protest against the rigged election and Fox right in front of Fox World Headquarters in New York with the chant, Rupert Murdoch, tell the truth! Fascists rigged the voting booth! Fox is headquartered in mid-Manhattan on the SECOND floor. Were going to be right outside their windows by the thousands screaming our guts out where they can hear us. Bad vibrations? Too bad studio soundproofing isnt perfect. We must deny them legitimacy at all costs. Bush didnt win. His election is a fake. Vast numbers of Americans still dont know this because Bush shills like Fox cover it up. Fox must be targeted. Their headquarters are in New York. The other papers and media in New York will cover this protest because they all hate Foxs living guts in New York. See this blog:

A Call To March On Fox
For refusing to tell the truth about the rigged election!

http://acalltomarchonfox.blogspot.com /

Read it. Read it all. Contact the blogger there to get involved.

Go to this thread and participate in the discussion A call to march against the rigged election includes extensive discussion about the planned march on Fox/rigged election:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Add your comments there, keep that thread kicked. Theres going to be a huge march in New York combining protest against the rigged election and the Bush shills like Fox who cover it up, a double whammy. After that, the cat will be out of the bag and Bush will have lost legitimacy.

Why is that important? Because legitimacy is essential for de facto power. Official or de jure power is not enough for a leader to maintain control. He has to also have the INTANGIBLES of legitimacy de facto authority. Thats why presidents can become lame ducks in their second term. Bush must be denied LEGITIMACY. His whole presidency must be publicly DELEGITIMIZED. People in other countries will hear about the march too. This will add to his difficulties diplomatically overseas. To deny legitimacy we must march against the rigged election.

Where? At the number one shill covering it up Fox. Fox Headquarters in New York. Fox may or may not admit we are in front of their New York offices but the other New York news organizations will because they hate Fox. See the above blog for full details on that and the whole march plan. See and post on the above thread to get involved. Keep that thread kicked.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Interestingly...
Nothing for that name on google.com/unclesam.

This guy has done government work. No mention. Ponder that.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:52 PM
Original message
a dupe
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 06:53 PM by SoCalDem
..


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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. A Florida connection from 2003

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:hqtRZ3Uc3OYJ:www.c...


SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS: AWARD OF SOFTWARE BID




Ms. Susan Bryant, Supervisor of Elections, reviewed with the Board 3 proposals received to upgrade the software for the computer system in her office. The following proposals were received:


Fidler & Chambers @ $19,500 plus


$3000 for annual license & maintenance





Sequoia Pacific Systems @ $19,950 plus


$1200 for annual license & maintenance





Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. @ $24,985 plus


$1600 for annual maintenance fee




Ms. Bryant recommended Triad Governmental Systems for the following reasons: the bid appears to include all prices requested, with no hidden costs, training is unlimited at no additional cost, 9/94 election support included, and no negative comments were received from other counties using their software. The Board unanimously approved the proposal from Triad Governmental Systems, following a motion from Commissioner Suggs, which was seconded by Commissioner Bush.




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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. "Thumbprint Verification with Ballot-On-Demand").
unsaved:///newpage2.htm
... (Note: Includes "Thumbprint Verification with Ballot-On-Demand"). Triad Governmental
Systems, Inc. (Punchcard). 358 South Monroe Street. Xenia, OH 45385. ...
Description: Known Vendors of computerized vote tabulation systems compiled by the Federal Election Commission
Category: Society > Politics > ... > Election Equipment and Technology
www.fec.gov/pages/vendors.htm - 16k - Cached

FEC - Standard Single Column Template
... WEBSITE: http://www.shoupvote.com . (NOTE: Markets DRE formerly of K-Technology
Resources, Inc.). Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. Punchcard. ...
www.fec.gov/pages/vendors12-00.htm.1006041757 - 61k - Cached
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. connection to Gale Group.. goliath
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. My experience is with bids, proposals and contracts.
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 07:39 PM by troubleinwinter
Huh? It is the most expensive bid, though may have included more services than other bidders.

We should see all of the proposals to see if they are according to specifications. This is a problem with taking PROPOSALS, vs. BIDS on prewritten specifications (level playing gound vs. apples-oranges). This looks like it could be a stinker... I wonder if there were any challenges filed by the other bidders.

All of this should be available in the public record. Bids, in their entirety are read aloud and available.

This looks NUTS to me, to have selected the HIGHEST bider. But we'd need to see the entire proposal or original bid specifications.

(edit: oops I see this is FLA, not OH, so deleted reference to Comm. Bush)
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rapp Systems, Rapp Systems Corporation
Those are other companies he's been listed with, according to his donations.

He's given to National Republican Congressional Committee, Republican Party of Ohio, Bush, and the RNC.

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?NumOfThou=...
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ok, this photo
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 06:54 PM by ohio_liberal


This photo shows Rapp Systems right next to Triad GSI. Rapp is also the name of the president and vice president of Triad.

Tod Rapp of Rapp Systems is a Repub donor.


http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?city=Xen...
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. This also shows "Todd" Rapp as the President of TRIAD
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 07:02 PM by ohio_liberal
http://www.fec.gov/pages/vendors.htm

On edit:

The Triad Website shows Brett Rapp as the President

http://www.triadgsi.com/
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Triad's
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Tod Rapp is the Daddy
Brett and Dwayne are his sons, per his mother-in-law's obituary (the stuff you find on the internet!)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:t_d8cDtMjFIJ:www.e...
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. His daughter Cheryl Bellucci is also in the business
She is (was?) the VP of Rapp Systems Corporation.

http://www.foxite.com/archives/0000010046.htm
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. What happened in Alaska in April 99?
"Hmmm... I've been reading this thread about numbers on ballots with interest. You see, I work for a company which counts ballots for county boards of elections in five different states. In fact, I got to count ballots in an election in Alaska last month... uh, maybe I shouldn't bring that up."

This response submitted by Cheryl Bellucci on 5/25/99

http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/IndustryArticles/9912B8...
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Cookie wookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. Vendors: Triad Governmental Systems, Inc.


Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. (Punchcard)
358 South Monroe Street
Xenia, OH 45385
CONTACT: Dwayne Rapp
PHONE: 800/666-5446 or 937/376-5446
FAX: 937/376-3078
(NOTE: No prescored punchcards.)

http://vevo.verifiedvoting.org/vendors/triad/
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
10. He's been doing election software since 1999
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SomthingsGotaGive Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. check this out .... since 84
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:_k3L_IiymRAJ:www.vo...


08/30/84

ELECtab Ballot Tabulator Machine- - single punchcard

Tod a. Rapp, President

Triad Governmental Systems Inc.
358 S. MonroeXenia, Ohio 45385-3442
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Psephos Corporation
This is odd, through a link from here: http://www.rapps.org / to the Psephos Corporation, you can buy 2000 Palm Beach County Florida "Butterfly" Ballot Pages, Ballot Cards & Page Holder Kit

http://www.xeniashopper.com/PsephosFLkit.htm
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badc0der Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #12
46. Tod runs psephos as well
http://whois.worldsearch.com/psephos.biz (whois for psephoscorp.com is similar)

And I strongly suspect that Triad GSI is just a DBA for Rapp Systems given that Rapp Systems has Y2K status for Triad's software on their site http://www.rappsystems.com/year2000/index.htm

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badc0der Donating Member (64 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:46 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. no sec filings, no pto filings. seems like a fly-by-night operation -nt-
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
14. very vague and possibly unrelated
When Sam Brownback celebrated his election as a Republican senator from Kansas last year, he thanked the usual list of family, staff and supporters except for one.

Unmentioned among his Kansas backers was a Washington consulting firm called Triad Management Services. But Brownback had ample reason to be grateful to Triad, which played a significant though invisible role in propelling him to office.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/c...

On Sept. 30, the House Ethics Committee issued a 62-page report rebuking DeLay for trading support for the congressional candidacy of the son of retiring Rep. Nick Smith, R-Mich., in exchange for Smith's vote on Bush's Medicare bill. "It is improper for a member to offer or link support for the personal interests of another member as part of a quid pro quo to achieve a legislative goal," the committee reported.

Back in 1996 DeLay got a walk in a fundraising scandal involving a front group known as Triad. That scandal cost a Texas businessman $400,000 in fines and resulted in an FBI investigation. But what the FBI turned up was never revealed because then-House Government Reform chairman Dan Burton, R-Ind., blocked attempts by the ranking Democrat on the Committee, Henry Waxman, D-Calif., to subpoena the FBI notes and files.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/04/scandal/in...

In a relatively short three years, Triad Strategies has emerged as the largest government relations and communications firm in Pennsylvania , providing a broad array of services to clients that include Fortune 500 companies, major healthcare providers and hospital groups, non-profits, state agencies and professional trade organizations.

Roy Wells is the driving force behind that growth. As Triads President and Managing Director, Roy has created a new model for a professional services firm a model driven by the changes sweeping our marketplace. Roy envisioned a firm built around top-notch professionals working together as teams designed to suit each clients unique needs. He envisioned a firm that capable of providing three core services - government relations, corporate relations and strategic communications. And he envisioned a firm that would capitalize on new technologies to bolster relationships with key insiders and distribute the messages we carry on behalf of our clients

http://www.triadstrategies.com/people.html
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. This seems intriguing
Back in 1996 DeLay got a walk in a fundraising scandal involving a front group known as Triad. That scandal cost a Texas businessman $400,000 in fines and resulted in an FBI investigation. But what the FBI turned up was never revealed because then-House Government Reform chairman Dan Burton, R-Ind., blocked attempts by the ranking Democrat on the Committee, Henry Waxman, D-Calif., to subpoena the FBI notes and files.

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TrustingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hope this is relevant... 1988 Saltman report on comp vote-tallying
http://www.votefraud.org/saltman_roy_1988_report.htm

A 1988 report on Computer Science and Technology
NBS Special Publication 500-158
Accuracy, Integrity, and Security in Computerized Vote-Tallying

==

Todd Rapps name appears somewhere in this behemoth of a file.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kenneth Rapp...e-voting problems (related?)
PCWorld.com - E-Voting Problems Crop Up
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118431,00.asp
... In Philadelphia, rumors spread quickly that electronic voting machines were showing ...
According to Kenneth Rapp, deputy secretary for regulatory programs for ...
www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118431,00.asp - Similar pages


and this...


VOTE FRAUD
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/vote_fraud.html
... Rapp, whose sons now manage the family run company, is a generous supporter ... There
were numerous problems with voting machines in Ohio, where Bush reputedly won ...
www.americanfreepress.net/html/vote_fraud.html - 27k - Nov 29, 2004 - Cached - Similar pages


more

Village Council business
... The system will cut down on voting errors, said Rapp, since voters can easily correct
an erroneous vote by pressing the voting button twice to remove the vote ...
www.ysnews.com/stories/2003/may/050103_council.html - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

E-voting problems reported as election gets under way
... In Philadelphia, rumors spread quickly that electronic voting machines were showing
vote ... is not reset for each election, said Kenneth Rapp, deputy secretary ...
www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/1102e-votprobl.html - 49k - Cached - Similar pages

CIO - E-voting problems in US election
... Rapp, deputy secretary for regulatory programs for Pennsylvania. However, at least
four polling places in Philadelphia reported malfunctioning of older voting ...
cio.co.nz/cio.nsf/0/ BEFFF348504549E4CC256F410000CEB9?OpenDocument&More=International%22 - 35k - Cached - Similar pages

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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. The Rapp Family has a website
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 07:31 PM by ohio_liberal
for your viewing pleasure:

http://www.rapps.org /

This website is linked on the rapps.org homepage. Please tell me WTF this is?

http://www.psephoscorp.com /

On edit:

Sorry, this one is a dupe.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Just a cutesy way to make a buck off of the 2K fiasco
:puke:
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Yuck
There's something very wrong about that being linked to a company in the voting industry.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #17
40. Rapp family members involved in elections in FL, PA and OH
Rapp family with real estate holdings in TX.

Stephen Rapp, a judge in FL, recused himself in 2000

As for the likelihood of vote fraud, consider the character of the judges and state officials in Florida whom Bush is relying on to steal the state. The Palm Beach County judge who initially took the lawsuit against the butterfly ballot, Stephen Rapp, had to recuse himself after an affidavit was filed that he had told an attorney in an elevator that he doing his part to make sure the Democrats are run out of the White House.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/nov2000/elec-n15.shtm...

Kenneth Rapp

Earlier today in Philadelphia, rumors spread quickly that e-voting machines were showing vote totals before the start of counting, prompting state Republican party officials to cry foul and threaten litigation. Those reports were false because observers misinterpreted an odometer-style vote counter that records all votes cast on each machine and is not reset for each election, said Kenneth Rapp, deputy secretary for regulatory programs for Pennsylvania.

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,118431,00.asp

The votes in Ohio are officially re-counted and tallied 10 days after Election Day, Tod A. Rapp, the man who wrote the software that tabulates the votes in nearly half the counties in Ohio, told American Free Press. The outstanding provisional ballots are only counted after that, Rapp said.

Rapp, the founder of Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. of Xenia, Ohio, wrote the computer program that tallies the punch-card ballots in the centralized counting systems used in 41 counties in Ohio. Rapp, whose sons now manage the family run company, is a generous supporter of the Republican Party and the presidential campaign of George W. Bush.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2497

Then there's the Barney Rapp real estate mogul in Galveston


Meeting your real estate needs!

Everything you need to know about buying or selling a home can be found here on Barney Rapp, Inc. REALTORS's website! As the preeminent real estate professional in our community, we are dedicated to providing the finest service available while breaking new ground.

Because the real estate industry is becoming more sophisticated and challenging every day, you need professionals that understand the industry and is positioned to stay ahead of the game.

http://www.barneyrapp.com /

Interestingly enough this headline came up in a google search:

Triad Enters Third-Party Leasing with Prescott Realty Group
DALLAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 16, 2001


Triad Properties of Texas, Ltd. was selected to be the third-party leasing agent for Prescott Realty's Dallas properties, which include two WiredZone brand properties.

The agreement more than triples Triad's inventory from 1 million square feet to approximately 3.5 million and strengthens Triad's foothold in the full-service real estate market.

"We have had great leasing success in 2000 and as a result our portfolio is substantially occupied," said Lance Sallis, Triad Properties of Texas, Ltd. principal. "The addition of Prescott/WiredZone to our portfolio represents a tremendous opportunity to continue our planned expansion by capitalizing on our core competencies, and we look forward to a successful, long-term relationship with Prescott."

Triad of Texas was formed in 1998 by Triad Properties Corporation as an affiliate company. Since 1994, Triad has acquired and developed more than 6.0 million square feet of office and industrial space throughout the Southwest and Southeast. At inception, Triad Properties of Texas, Ltd. acquired 850,000 square feet of commercial-office space, expanded its property to approximately 1.0 million square feet, and substantially leased this portfolio prior to signing on with Prescott.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001...

Triad Strategies is working to get slot machines into PA (also associated with Delay Indian gaming scandal)

On a recent legislative day in Harrisburg, Andrew Marsico, the lobbyist for Harrah's, worked the hallways for a bill, sponsored by State Sen. Robert "Tommy" Tomlinson (R., Bucks), that would allow up to 3,000 slot machines at each racetrack. Rendell and Tomlinson are pushing for a vote before June 30.


Harrah's has an interest in owning a racetrack or operating slots at one if "economic and regulatory conditions favorable," company spokesman Gary Thompson said.


Harrah's owns a thoroughbred racetrack with slot machines in Bossier City, La., and a dog track with slot machines in Council Bluffs, Iowa.


"At this point, I don't even bother with the anti-gaming ," said Marsico, who also represents Presque Isle Downs Inc. of Chester, W.Va., which has a license to build a racetrack in Erie. "There's no way to sway them this late in the game."


Not far away, Robert Taylor, lobbyist for Trump Hotels & Casino Resorts, buttonholed State Sen. Gibson Armstrong (R., Lancaster), a gambling opponent. Taylor declined to discuss the conversation. Armstrong did not.


"He said to me that people who run a failing business shouldn't be in charge of running something as complicated as operating slots," Armstrong said later. "I take it he was talking about racetrack owners."


Casino operators, including Trump, want the state to auction off licenses to operate slot machines, rather than restrict them to racetracks.


Armstrong supports auctioning licenses and says he will offer the idea as an amendment to the slot-machine legislation.


The auctioning issue has become contentious, with some racino supporters alleging that Atlantic City casinos are using it to kill the slot-machine bill.


Triad Strategies, lobbying firm for Boyd Gaming Corp., commissioned a survey about two months ago that showed public support for auctioning off licenses.

http://www.casinoman.net/Content/casino_gambling_news/g...

More on Delay Scandal

On Sept. 30, the House Ethics Committee issued a 62-page report rebuking DeLay for trading support for the congressional candidacy of the son of retiring Rep. Nick Smith, R-Mich., in exchange for Smith's vote on Bush's Medicare bill. "It is improper for a member to offer or link support for the personal interests of another member as part of a quid pro quo to achieve a legislative goal," the committee reported.

Back in 1996 DeLay got a walk in a fundraising scandal involving a front group known as Triad. That scandal cost a Texas businessman $400,000 in fines and resulted in an FBI investigation. But what the FBI turned up was never revealed because then-House Government Reform chairman Dan Burton, R-Ind., blocked attempts by the ranking Democrat on the Committee, Henry Waxman, D-Calif., to subpoena the FBI notes and files.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/10/04/scandal/in ...

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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
61. FL, PA, OH, according to votersunite.org, top 3 states with voting problem
Of all the problems reported thus far at http://www.votersunite.org, Florida and Ohio and Pennsylvania comprise fully one-third of the problems.

That's one whopping third of all the states.

*sniff-sniff* What's that smell?
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IStriker Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #61
78. You link does not work.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #78
81. Try this:
http://www.votersunite.org

I accidentally inserted a comma at the end of it.

Also see the problems page:

http://www.votersunite.org/electionproblems.asp

411 listed now, only 380 a few days ago.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. ...pecuniary interest ...manuf or marketing of voting system
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 07:50 PM by SoCalDem
Don't know if it;s the same Rapp family,,.but it involves voting/.sec of state and a lawsuit in Texas

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache : DfORXIEBlLAJ:www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/lo48morales/lo98-001.htm+r...
.......
remove space after "cache:" and copy to browser
.......
8. See, e.g., Alco. Bev. Code 5.05(a)(3) (prohibiting Alcoholic Beverage Commission member from having "a pecuniary interest in an alcoholic beverage business"); Elec. Code 121.002, 122.035(d), .092 (prohibiting secretary of state and voting system examiners from having "a pecuniary interest in the manufacturing or marketing of any part of voting system"); Local Gov't Code 321.027, 322.026 (prohibiting member of county or joint county board of park commissioners from acquiring "a direct or indirect pecuniary interest" in any park "improvements, concessions, equipment, or business").

http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/lo48morales/lo98-00...
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ohio "recount" won't yield a damn thing
It is rather enjoyable to watch all the huffing and puffing and false hopes about a rigged mess. But it's YOUR time, is it not?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Link???
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Razorback_Democrat Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
34. Wow, 1000 posts, and such a downer!
what's wrong with trying to change what has happened?

do you not think there was fraud?

there were at least anomalies and irregularities.

or are you saying it is covered up too well?

every con slips up somewhere

usually someone talks
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #34
45. Yo, ARKIE!!
Welcome to DU!

:hi:
dbt
Hot Spring County
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Lizzie Borden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
68. I have to agree with you...
we have to fight this. Even if nothing changes, we have to make them jump through all the hoops we can find. We can't just give up without a fight. (it's just so NOT in my nature). While you've got breath, you fight on for your ideals.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. Techie Stuff
ere is a list of businesses that appear to be users of FoxPro or VFP or employ VFP/FoxPro? developers. The names were gathered from a variety of online sources such as support forums, web sites, and job postings, and has been amended by users and developers adding and correcting entries here since it was first posted in mid-2003. The companies listed may be anything from large multi-developer shops to occasional single users, and may or may not be Fox-only. Therefore, the list is a poor source for employment searches.

Triad GSI, Inc. / Xenia, Ohio, United States / 2003-

http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~WhoUsesFoxPro

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Is FoxPro any good as a development tool? Secure?
Or does it have security flaws and vulnerabilities like Access? IOW, would it, like Access, lend itself to a few backdoors being inserted just in case any rogue programmer wanted to have a look-see and make sure the election was going their way?

What can you tell us about FoxPro? Thanks.
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Google info:
FoxPro is a database and dev language purchased by Microsoft in 1992, and now known as Microsoft Visual FoxPro (VFP).

The technology allows developer to create an executable, which can then be distributed (along with a support library DLL), to an unlimited number of end users.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/04/28/ms_issues_visua... /

There was a patch issued in 2002 for FoxPro6 to correct a security vulnerability re: the installation routine

http://www.winguides.com/security/display.php/285 /
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
28. I wonder if this really was offered
From Yellow Springs (OH)

"SPECIAL PRESENTATION-Demonstration of new voting machine to be used in the May Special Election. Mike Gardner, Chairman of the Board of the Board of Elections for Greene County along with Dewayne Rapp, Vice President of Triad Governmental Systems of Xenia to demonstrate a new electronic push-button voting machine called micro-vote.

... Gardner further added that if any voter does not wish to use the electronic voting method that the standard cardpunch machines would be also available. Council thanked Gardner and Rapp for the informative presentation."

http://www.yscitizens.org/ysdocs/minutes/minutes-2003-0...
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Ouabache Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
64. Triad must be buying technology from MicroVote Corp ??
Yellow Pages Merchandise eBay Results Web Results
Show: Serving the area Map: Show Results on Map

Listings

Microvote Corporation
6366 Guilford Avenue, Indianapolis, IN 46220
(317) 257-4900

business profile | phonephone | map | save

Appears in the Category:
Voting Machines & Equipment



Show: Serving the area Map: Show Results on Map

====

Great - these crooks even have subcontractor suppliers of equipment and software.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. kick
:kick:
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InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
33. Kick Again
P.S. - Related to (diamond)jewelers in Dayton? There's also a Harold Rapp Assoc. that recruits for the diamond/gemstone/metals in NY
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
35. Haven't found much, but this might be potentially useful
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
36. Hedda--are you aware of the ES&S guy found tampering with the machine
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 01:27 AM by milkyway
in Auglaize County, Ohio two weeks before the election? This article was published the week after the election in a local paper; I'm unaware of any new info since.

http://www.theeveningleader.com/articles/2004/11/06/new...

Board awaits state followup

By ERIN MILLER

WAPAKONETA -- Auglaize County Board of Election members say they have not heard any more from the state regarding a possible investigation after receiving notice of being placed on administrative oversight last week.

"Absolutely nothing," board member Diana Hausfeld said in a telephone interview Wednesday afternoon when asked if the board had received any information about the investigation.

Election Board Director Jean Burklo, in her office Wednesday morning, said she has not received any information from Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell's office since notice of the board being placed on administrative oversight arrived late on Oct. 30.

James Lee, spokesperson for the secretary of state's office, said last week the specific conditions of the administrative oversight and reasons for the oversight were available after Tuesday's election. Lee said Wednesday afternoon the Secretary of State's office was focusing its efforts on assisting county elections boards with processing and counting provision ballots.

"These other issues will be addressed in the coming weeks," Lee said.

In a letter dated Oct. 21, Ken Nuss, former deputy director of the Auglaize County Board of Elections, claimed that Joe McGinnis, a former employee of Election Systems and Software (ES&S), the company that provides the voting system in Auglaize County, was on the main computer that is used to create the ballot and compile election results, which would go against election protocol. Nuss claimed in the letter that McGinnis was allowed to use the computer the weekend of Oct. 16.

Nuss, who resigned from his job Oct. 21 after being suspended for a day, was responsible for overseeing the computerized programming of election software, according to his job description. His resignation is effective Nov. 11.

The letter also included allegations that Burklo released a sheet from a petition packet filed by Auglaize County Common Pleas Judge Frederick Pepple last December.
____________________

There are at least four guys by the name of McGinnis at ES&S; one is a vice president. What was Joe McGinnis doing on the machine, and why is he described as a former employee? Nuss was suspended, then resigned. Why?

Here's a DU thread I posted a couple of weeks ago with info about ES&S and the McGinnis's.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:41 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Thanks, got it!!
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. You're welcome, I didn't think you would still be online this late.
It would be great if somebody could follow up on the Evening Leader story. Perhaps it won't amount to anything, but ES&S counts most of the votes in Ohio.
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InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
39. It's a conspiracy, I tell you!
NAMESAKES ABOUND!

19 3-31 USA Florida Ocean Reef Park, Singer Island
Todd Rapp 26 - Right foot bitten

SHARK ATTACK - http://www.scubaradio.com/gsaf/index.cfm
This Namesake is a great swimmer and Palm Beach County lifeguard?

or

Todd Rapp Senior Partner at Himle Horner
2004 Legislative Session Preview
http://www.accessminnesotaonline.com/guests.htm
http://www.himlehorner.com /

or

http://westsidenewsonline.com/OldSite/westside/news/200...

5:07 p.m. Todd Rapp, assistant director of the production, arrives. This play is a Rapp family affair; Todd's wife, Kathy, is the director, his son, Glenn, a junior at Churchville-Chili, is stage manager, daughter, Margaret, runs a spotlight. Many families participate in the production together, Rapp says.

"We start way back before Christmas," adds Rapp, who, along with his family, has been involved with the show in different capacities for the past 11 years. "First we read scripts and decide what performance to do. Then early in January there are auditions. Rehearsals start immediately after that. We start as a group of strangers, but be spending time together, praying for each other, we grow to care a lot about each other."

HE'S EVERYWHERE! LOL







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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #39
44. kick
:kick:
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
41. kick
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Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. kick to the top
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Lil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:00 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. 1 more kick. Nail these guys! Good hunting
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
48. kick
:kick:
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
49. Another kick.
Keep up the good fight.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
50. weird entanglements Triad Governmental systems Inc. Rapp
Triad seems to be a giant umbrella corporation with its tentacles in banking, defense, IT, real estate, energy, wireless internet, engineering, hospitals (a spin off of Frist's Columbia/HCA) security (mentioned on Homeland Security web site RFID chips), lobbying, consulting, int'l telecom, Global TV and cable, off the top of my head.

Votations LLC in Rockville MD has no web site, however it shares office space with Triad Management Systems Inc. and with a company called Computer Sciences Corporation which comes up on a war profiteers web site with the likes of Bechtel, Dyncorp etc.

Triad Management systems first came on the scene in 1995 and by 1996 was being investigated by the Senate. THey set up tax-exempt shell organizations and funnelled money illegally to Brownback, among others. It is mired in scandal and Tom Delay was involved as well.

This is the 174-page Meredith O'Rourke deposition exploring Sam Brownback's relationship with Triad Management Services, which was (and still is, last I heard) headed by Carolyn Malenick. This is a public document, available in hardcopy by request from the Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs

http://www.rainbowtel.net/~bryants/abbmodep.htm

A copy of the FEC complaint against Triad:

EQPUbcCx_UJ:www.dcd.uscourts.gov/02-1237.pdf+Triad+Carolyn+Malenick&hl=en&start=2" target="_blank">http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache :7EQPUbcCx_UJ:www.d...

All of this seems to point back to one or two real movers and shakers and sugar daddies to repub causes: Charles and David Koch of Koch Industries (oil Kansas). THey fund think tanks (CATO, Federalist Society et al) and operate totally behind the scenes.

Anyway, Triad would race to the rescue in tight races for House and Senate by coming in when the repub candidate's war chest ran out and pumping hundreds of thousands of $ in "issue ads" which were not about issues at all but attack ads. They won almost all the time.

Elizabeth Stein, who served as counsel to the Senate Committee on Gov't Affairs whp described Triad as a for-profit corporation whose sole role was to influence federal elections.

Koch's name comes up in the same circles as Scaife and Coors. He donated heavily to Rove and Hughes and he has had some dealings with Judge Rapp of 2000 FL fame. THe term "triad" also comes up a lot in military and intelligence circles along with the term New World Order.
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offcenter Donating Member (105 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Sounds like a front company
For some really bad guys who usually operate out of northern VA.
They're simply in too much sensitive stuff to go unnoticed by the real powers.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Most companies I found on the net named Triad
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 07:32 PM by Mandate My Ass
specialized in data sharing, data transfer, or off-site data access and manipulation. It was very bizarre and discomfitting as one after the other stated that they are working on projects which would share private data and restrict public data.

Voting results should never be private, or the code used to tabulate them, but nobody is saying this, even the Dems. :shrug:
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
51. There's a ton of Rapps in Ohio
They've been there since the early 1800's, and there's even a town called Rappsburg.

So Googling on the Rapp name alone is not going to be real productive.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. I was referring specifically to Kenneth, Stephen and Tod
all members of the same family and all involved in voting in one form or another in FL, PA and OH. Also, those three states seemed to have the highest number of Triad companies.

Who would just google Rapp?
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
52. Here's something from 2000
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 07:20 PM by starroute
Excuse the anti-Clinton spin -- it's what came up in Google Groups:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=rapp+xenia&hl=en&lr=&...

Subject: Voting machines' source....Little Rock Arkansas...
Newsgroups: soc.culture.lebanon
Date: 2000-11-23 01:06:48 PST

I recommend picking up today's Wall Street Journal. It has some good voter-issue reporting. The lead article by Jeanne Cummings and Chad Terhune is very well researched.

They report that the voting machines used in Palm Beach and Broward counties were supplied by Election Resources Corporation. The company is located in (GET THIS) Little Rock, Arkansas. (Could Bill be behind the stalemate? Has anyone seen him packing?) The company president is identified as Paul Nolte.

The manufacturer appears to be Triad Governmental Services, Inc. of Xenia, Ohio. The system is called "Votomatic". The company spokesman is Dwayne Rapp, VP. He is against counting "dimpled" chads.

On edit: A few more Google Group mentions of Triad from November 2000.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22triad+governmental...
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22triad+governmental...
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22triad+governmental...

And from the second of those three links:
Florida uses two punch card voting systems, according to those who supply the state's voting software, and the system more likely to discard valid ballots is used in urban, Democratic strongholds." This punch card system is called Votamatic system. It produces the 'hanging chad' that causes votes not to be counted by machines because the punched paper remains partially attached. This system is used in urban counties such as Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach, which heavily favor Gore.

The other punch card technology, the Datavote system...produces few hanging chads and, therefore, far fewer of the misread ballots that would be found in a hand count. This system is used mostly in small counties where Bush leads.

"The Votamatic system would be more sensitive to changes in votes than the Datavote system," said Brett Rapp, president of Triad Governmental Systems, which supplies eight Florida counties with vote-counting software for both systems. Conversely, he added, "I doubt you're going to see many changes at all in a Datavote county. You have less changes in votes on recounts because they don't have the hanging chad problem."

Paul Nolte, president of Election Resources Corp., which also provides voting software to Florida counties, agreed that for the Datavote system, "chad isn't an issue." Therefore, machine counts aren't likely to reject ballots that should be counted.


On second edit:

It appears that Paul Nolte is now with Sequoia.

From the Benton (Arkansas) Courier:
http://www.bentoncourier.com/articles/2004/11/13/news/2...

More than 11,000 Saline County residents cast their ballots early and the process appeared to have gone smoothly until Monday night when a balloting snafu was discovered.

Unfortunately, 62 ballots didn't get counted by the optical scanning equipment the county used for the early voting process and all of these ballots were being recounted today, Saline County Election Commission Chairman Greg Brown said.

<snip>

Burton said he contacted Paul Nolte, a technical adviser for Sequoia election systems, who said there is no way to identify the problem ballots.

"The only thing to do is to run them through the counter again," he said.


However, despite the first quote above, I'm not sure at this point that there was ever a direct relationship between Election Resources and Triad. I think they were just both involved in the 2000 Florida hanging chad mess.
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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
55. Suspicious voting in SC AND in charge of Electionsonthe.net
Known Vendors of Computerized Vote Tabulation Systems (as of 02/16/99)

Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. (Punchcard)
358 South Monroe Street
Xenia, OH 45385
CONTACT: Todd Rapp, President
PHONE: 800/666-5446 or 937/376-5446
FAX: 937/376-3078

http://www.fec.gov/pages/vendors.htm

------------------
Hey, look what Alexa found:

http://www.electionsonthe.net/oh /
Contact Info for electionsonthe.net:

TRIAD Governmental Systems, Inc.
358 S Monroe St
Xenia, OH
45385 US
(937) 376-5446
webmaster@triadgsi.ne

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?q=&url=http%3A//... /
------------------

Consistently suspicious voting patterns involved with Triad machines in SUMTER, S.C.

South Carolina County illustrates voting difficulties
By Thomas Hargrove June 21, 2004
http://www.fairvote.org/righttovote/hargrove4.htm

------------------
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Kick for more discussion

Should Eloriel get this one?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
58. I don't think so.
As I understand it, punch card tabulating software is stupid. It doesn't care who's what on the card. It just shows you X number of punches for set 1, Y for set 2, etc and is completely ignorant of the party, name, etc of the candidates associated with each hole on the card.
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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. Link between Election Resources Corporation (ERS) and TGS???
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 07:26 PM by Angry Girl
Not trustworthy sources but I'm looking into it. I thought Votomatic was made by ESS?

Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2000 6:39 PM
To: IRE list
Subject: Voting machines' source

I recommend picking up today's Wall Street Journal. It has some
good voter-issue reporting. The lead article by Jeanne Cummings
and Chad Terhune is very well researched.
They report that the voting machines used in Palm Beach and
Broward counties were supplied by Election Resources Corporation.
The company is located in (GET THIS) Little Rock, Arkansas.
(Could Bill be behind the stalemate? Has anyone seen him packing?)
The company president is identified as Paul Nolte.

The manufacturer appears to be Triad Govermental Services, Inc.
of Xenia, Ohio. The system is called "Votomatic". The company
spokesman is Dwayne Rapp, VP. He is against counting "dimpled" chads

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:cWFvNQf8jJAJ:www.m...
Also appears here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a14a3bf5112.htm

On Wednesday, manufacterers of the type of Votomatic voting machine used in Florida told the Wall Street Journal they recommended against counting dimpled ballots. "I don't know of anyone who has counted a dimpled chad," said Richard Stephens of Election Data Corp. "Counting those dimpled chads is definitely not right," Dwayne Rapp, vice president of Triad Governmental Systems Inc., told the Journal. "There are a lot of people who simply don't vote in every race." Rapp said he'd been contacted by Gore lawyers, who tried to get him to back their position. "The Gore people wanted me to say the Votomatic system was flawed. I won't say that. I don't believe it is."

http://www.angelfire.com/wizard/linkpagemainwebsite/ele...
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Angry Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Cannot verify ERS-TGS link...
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
62. Map of Ohio counties that are Triad customers
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Boswells_Johnson Donating Member (526 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
65. I Noticed that he signed his name
to a list called "Americans Together" It really doesn't say much, but it smacks of Rep. stuff.

http://www.debexar.com/americanstogether/index.cfm

Also on the debexar domain is a thing called getvoting.us

http://www.debexar.com/elecnet/index.cfm

I have been unable to to a whois search, but I think the debexar domain is owned by an Ed Packard, the first name on the "Americans Together" list.

Packard, if it's the same guy, is the Alabama Secretary of State's Chief Election official.

Curiously, at the top of the "get voting" site, they have a quote from Margaret Mead:

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world:indeed it's the only thing that ever has"

LOL...that'd be too rude!

Anyway, I noticed that there are not many pages on the debexar domain, so I can't help but wonder if Rapps has dealt with Packard.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
66. Chronology of voting machine selection process in Ohio
http://www.yourvotecountsohio.org/pdf/factSheet2.pdf

The Help America Vote Act in Ohio: A Chronology

2001
February
Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell convenes an Elections Summit featuring academics, election officials and journalists to address issues including those that arose during the presidential election in November 2000.

<snip>

2003
March
Secretary Blackwell announces the formation of the Ohio State Planning Committee, a 13-member panel, to assist him in developing a state plan for HAVA implementation in Ohio. The committee holds meetings throughout April and early May.

<snip>

July
The Office of the Secretary of State announces five voting system vendors have met the mandatory requirements in the voting system overhaul RFP. The vendors and their voting systems moving to the next round of review are: Diebold Election Systems; Election Systems and Software; Maximum/Hart InterCivic/DFM Associates; Microvote General Corporation/Sosa/Perot Systems/Triad GSI; and Sequoia Voting Systems. An August 1 deadline is set for completing the evaluation process.


What is the meaning of "Microvote General Corporation/Sosa/Perot Systems/Triad GSI"? Is there some way in which they're all associated? I found another article about the selection process in Ohio which says, "Patrons can try one or both of the machines. ... Dayton Legal Blank Co. is providing a Diebold machine that incorporates touch screen technology while Triad GSI of Xenia will set up MicroVote's offering, a panel that has push buttons along the side of the display screen."

http://www.examiner.org/news/election_board_7_15.php

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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
67. Selling the Votomatics on eBay
http://www.sptimes.com/News/011101/news_pf/Floridian/A_...

St. Petersburg Times, published January 11, 2001

Psephos Corp. of Xenia, Ohio, has attracted more interest with its Butterfly Ballot Voting Machine. After hearing about the arrest of two Lake Worth men who tried to sell a stolen Palm Beach County voting machine on eBay, company employees wondered if there might be a market for legitimate merchandise.

So Psephos, which sells election supplies, pulled some Votomatics out of storage and had another company print up a replica of Palm Beach's butterfly ballot. The package, which includes 10 punch-card ballots "so you can explore the system yourself," sells for $99.95 on the company's Web site.

"We have a bunch of used vote recorders in stock, and this looked like a way to get some of them sold," said president Tod Rapp, who unloaded three on eBay and an unknown number direct from the company. "We've had these sitting in the warehouse for quite a while now. Somebody said, 'Why don't we sell them?' "
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
69. WOW! This thread has become simply amazing.
What I'm wondering (well, more than wondering) is whether the Triad system is definitely the equipment which was specifically used in Florida in the (minority/Dem)areas which discarded the higher proportion of punchcard ballots in 2000. If this is the case we have a suddenly identified a HUGE opening in the recount and lawsuit strategy for Ohio. It's necessary to recount 5% of precincts before the full hand count and we need to ID those precincts.

Questions that could make this thread and the DUers on it literally responsible for reversing the election:

1. Is the Triad equipment the vote counter that magically discounts the high percentage of ballots (as referred to in the Florida article a little upthread)?

2. Where is that equipment (as opposed to other punchcard counters) being used in high Dem/minority areas?

3. Is there a higher percentage of "spoiled ballots" in key precincts in those areas?

Finally, the info on Triad is much more than a little interesting. Are all these Triads that are connected with making private info less private and public info less public definitely owned/controlled by Rapp pere and freres or definitely close family member?

3. Can we get the ownership info and descriptions of each of those that ARE definitely Rapp-controlled into a list or post or PM or email to me?

4. Are any of these companies publicly held?

5. Tell me more about the Triad that comes in and bails out Repub candidates who need money in a tight race. Are they definitely Rappco?

I'll stop now. PLEASE see what you can find to pin down the answers.

I love you! :grouphug: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

hedda
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #69
74. Actually the Rapps seem like Johnny come latelys to Triad
Edited on Thu Dec-02-04 08:30 AM by Mandate My Ass
It's Koch who financed Triad Management Systems (election rigging) but repubs got the investigation shut down before anything concrete could be proven. Same thing when Delay got caught in bed with Triad, a high-ranking repub blocked the investigators (dems) subpoena requests.

Also, Koch Industries was being prosecuted for serious EPA violations in 2000, big time fines were about to come down. When Bush got elected, the prosecution was quietly dropped.

I'm going to look into FL today. That seems like the origin of this outfit and its the home of the new Triad Global Systems. Like someone above said, the name Triad could be coincidental, but these companies seem to have information sharing in common.

Starroute posted a map above that showed where Triad equipment was in use in OH and it was a lot of counties.
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
70. Their are many references in this thread that have NO CONNECTION
to Triad Governmental Systems, Inc. of Xenia, Ohio, or to the Rapp family that operates it. "Triad" is not an uncommon word. Just because a company has "Triad" in its name does not connect it to the voting machine company.

Also, just because a person has the last name Rapp does not mean they are related to the people Hedda is asking about. Tod Rapp is the father and currently a company consultant with Triad GSI; Brett Rapp is President; and Dwayne Rapp is Vice President.

Here are links to the companies run by the Rapp family of Xenia, Ohio.
http://www.triadgsi.com /
http://www.rappsystems.com /

If you are going to reference any other company, or other Rapps, please include evidence that they are connected to Triad GSI of Xenia, Ohio. We don't need half of DU falling down a rabbit hole. Let's help Hedda get the info she requested this evening.
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. Thank you. n/t
.
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
72. The same ol' same ol' was going on with Triad for more than a decade
workers from Triad coming in to "adjust" the system right before an election, without notifying elections officials or certifying.

Will be posting a few more names, dates, sources shortly. Kathleen and I are tracking down a source, not an earthshaking one, but someone who has a limited amount of inside knowledge.

Hope to have info on this by tonight.

Bev Harris
Executive Director
Black Box Voting
http://www.blackboxvoting.org
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #72
73. In the mean time, a fun piece to chew on
Interesting description of the vendor-sponsored parties, also mentions that Triad GSI was trying to get into touch-screens. By the way, another vendor mentioned here, Dayton Legal Blank, is actually owned by ES&S.

================

Updating voting machines could take nation a decade
14 February 2001
USA Today

If the nation decided to dump its antiquated voting machines tomorrow and get new ones, it wouldn't be able to do it.

In fact, replacing the now-suspect punch-card machines that are common across the country probably can't be accomplished by the next presidential election in 2004, and a complete modernization could take a decade, according to election officials and executives in America's tiny voting-equipment industry.

Fewer than a dozen U.S. companies make voting equipment, and even the largest of those has limited manufacturing capacity.

Even more crucial, they don't have enough trained personnel to carry out a crash national election upgrade.

"I don't think the industry is ready for the demand that is potentially going to come," says Kimball Brace, a leading election consultant.

"What happens when Miami-Dade, Dallas and Chicago say all of the sudden, 'We'd like to buy'? There is no manufacturer out there big enough," Brace says.

A host of government and professional task forces are churning out recommendations for how to avoid another election debacle like the one that unfolded last year in Florida. Newer equipment is high on their lists.

Florida wants to switch to a uniform statewide system of optically scanned ballots, the same technology used in grading standardized tests such as the SAT.

Georgia wants to convert to all-electronic voting, in which voters make their choices using a touch screen like those on ATMs.

The nation's secretaries of State want modernized equipment, and Congress may pour up to $2.5 billion into upgrades.

There are an estimated 600,000 or more outmoded punch-card and mechanical-lever machines across the country that would be up for replacement in any national upgrade -- many times the industry's normal annual production. Without larger staffs and deep-pocket financing, it will be impossible for equipment makers to ramp up production immediately, analysts say. Some components are in short supply, and though there is talk that big players such as IBM may join the voting machine business, no major high-tech firm is in a position to start selling.

"One of the assumptions these task forces are making is that there is an industry ready to meet their demands," says Peter Cosgrove, CEO of Sequoia Voting Systems, a leading equipment maker based in Exeter, Calif. "It would be dangerous of those groups to make the assumption that the entire country can change to new technology for the 2002 elections, or even for 2004."

The collision between a surge in demand and limited supply is "the next hurricane coming for election administrators," Brace says. "It has the potential of not being a very pretty sight."

The industry that provides equipment, supplies and expertise for the nation's elections is a niche business. Because elections come in cycles, so do its sales and profits. Total annual revenue is estimated at about $200 million in election years and $150 million in non-election years. Only a handful of companies that make approved voting equipment attempt to do business nationally. Nearly all are private companies; public shareholders would be impatient with their uneven earnings, executives say.

Not much bigger than an outlet store

Election Systems & Software (ES&S), with about 430 employees, is by far the largest.

At its small manufacturing facility in Omaha, about 20 employees sit at workbenches assembling and testing half a dozen different voting machines. They range from a large gray unit designed to count optically scanned ballots at high speed for an entire county to touch- screen electronic voting machines that look like an oversized child's Etch A Sketch and are used at local polling places.

In an adjacent warehouse, molded plastic equipment cases are piled high. One section has shelves where a limited inventory of parts awaits assembly. The entire operation isn't much bigger than a warehouse outlet store.

Jim Schmidt, who oversees the company's manufacturing, recalls how the company scrambled in 1998 to produce 7,350 voting machines in 100 days for Venezuela. "We had to pull out a lot of stops to do that," he says. All together, the company turned out 20,000 voting or vote- counting machines in the past 18 months, a record level.

Company officials are salivating over the coming boom and the profits it would bring.

ES&S is lining up outside producers to increase its manufacturing capacity.

Its nearest competitor, Global Election Systems in McKinney, Texas, plans to add a second or even a third shift at its plant. "We are gearing up to run 24/7 if necessary to meet the demand," says Global Vice President Larry Ensminger. The company may also turn to outside firms for additional assembly capacity.

Not all equipment makers are so sure the demand can be met. Chip Rabinowitz, who designed an electronic voting machine for Diversified Dynamics of Richmond, Va., says some components -- particularly touch screens and flash memory chips -- are in short supply. "It's probably going to take a minimum of 10 years" to complete a nationwide upgrade, he says.

Paul Craft, who oversees election technology for Florida, says his state hopes that by upgrading many counties at once, it can save money by buying voting equipment in large quantities. "That may not prove true," he says. "You may find yourself waiting in line to buy them at full retail."

Sequoia's Cosgrove says production capacity isn't even the toughest problem. "What's not achievable is being able to send out support people who understand the technology and elections and the legislative requirements in each state," he says. "There is a concern that the industry, in pursuit of early profits, will try to bite off more than it can handle."

Aldo Tesi, president of ES&S, says he believes that his company can meet demand. However, he agrees that "if there's a challenge, it's on the people side. We're going to have to be very smart about how we approach it."

Frightened by history

No major corporation has ventured into the U.S. voting equipment business since IBM, which popularized punch-card voting in the United States, got out of it in the early 1970s. IBM sold the rights to its Votomatic machine to four of its salesmen, who started a company called Computer Election Systems. At the time, their only competition was from old-fashioned paper ballots and from mechanical lever voting machines, which had been around since the late 1800s.

IBM unloaded the business because it knew bad publicity from a botched election could damage its far more profitable electric typewriter business, says Jack Gerbel, an IBM salesman who became vice president of the spinoff company. "Most of the free publicity they were getting was about elections, yet it was just a drop in the bucket, profit-wise," he recalls.

Gerbel is now president of his own company in Dublin, Calif. UniLect sells an electronic touch-screen voting machine.

Later, the punch-card business was sold to Business Records Corp., which also marketed optical scanning vote-counters. In 1997, that Texas company was in turn acquired by the Omaha firm that now is ES&S.

At the time, only three companies made optical scan vote-counting machines, so the Justice Department forced BRC to sell its scanning technology to Sequoia as well as the Omaha company to remedy antitrust concerns.

Now, the prospect of huge infusions of federal money is prompting some large players to rethink their aversion for the voting equipment business. Computer giant Unisys announced last month plans to market an election system that would automate everything from voter registration to vote counting. Other high-tech companies are working to perfect Internet voting systems, and IBM is rumored to be considering jumping back into the business. "We are examining that issue right now, but have not made any determination," says company spokesman Ed Barbini.

Harder than selling computers

But selling voting machines is more complex than selling computers, says Richard Smolka, publisher of a national newsletter on running elections. "When a vendor sells a county, they go in and instruct key personnel in procedures, changes, a host of little internal things," he says. "This is what new companies lack: support people and the experience."

Dave Keeler, vice president of a company in Dayton, Ohio, that prints ballots and sells electronic voting machines, says companies like his are crucial parts of the election system. "When they put in a new county elections director, who do you think is holding that person's hand? The experts reside in the private industry, and that's what makes it go around."

Any company angling for a piece of the action faces a long, tortuous road. Elections are a complex undertaking, carried out under state laws that vary widely and procedures and requirements that are different in each of America's 7,000 voting jurisdictions. Voting equipment must be certified by testing laboratories, then blessed by each state's top election officials. Sales are made by slogging from one county election board to the next. In most states, each county makes its own purchasing decisions.

Even if new orders pour in, those barriers remain. Sometimes salesmen seek to ease their jobs by pitching their wares at the annual meetings where each state's county election officials gather to keep current on election laws and practices.

For example, when Ohio election officials gathered at a Columbus hotel in January, equipment vendors turned the hotel's fifth floor into one continuous cocktail party. Riding up in an elevator, one county official checked with an equipment salesman to make sure he was ready to pour her favorite, Captain Morgan rum.

In room 531, Triad GSI of Xenia, Ohio had set up a Votomatic machine with a butterfly ballot from Palm Beach County, Fla., side by side with its electronic touch-screen model.

In Room 501, elections printer Barrett Brothers had its hospitality suite. Dayton Legal Blank, a printer and sales representative for an equipment maker, entertained in 509. The best party was in Room 506, where ES&S served hot hors d'oeuvres along with drinks.

'Extremely competitive environment'

Ten days later, some of the same companies -- and even a few of the same salesmen -- were in Orlando, where Florida county election supervisors gathered. Global's suite was holding a drawing for a large box of Belgian chocolates. Hart Intercivic, marketing an electronic voting machine, gave away a 13-inch color TV/VCR. Election software maker Iris lured officials by offering a chance at a gold necklace. "It is an extremely competitive environment," says Craft, the Florida official. "You have a static market, a fixed number of jurisdictions that need equipment. You've got all these vendors fighting for the same market."

It's not unusual, he says, for a company to spend two or three years trying to persuade local officials to buy its equipment only to lose out when the officials it has targeted go out of office. It's common, as well, for a vendor to be about to close a sale and have its competitors seek to sabotage the deal by planting doubts about the equipment in the minds of local officials who control the purse strings. "It's a dog-eat-dog world," Craft says.

Sometimes, salesmen feel the pressure to perform what they consider improper favors for election officials. One, who asked not to be identified for fear of losing business, told of encountering an election supervisor in a small Georgia county who listened to a sales presentation, then asked, "What's in it for me?" The salesman ignored the question, and the official repeated it. No favors were done, and the company won the contract anyway.

"This is no different from other government procurement," says Caleb Kleppner, an elections analyst with the non-profit Center for Voting and Democracy, based in Takoma Park, Md. "Kickbacks happen, and favored contractors win despite not having the lowest bid. Politics affects it, too. Anytime there are hundreds of millions of dollars being spent, there is incentive for that to happen."

TEXT OF INFO BOX BEGINS HERE

Old and new ways to cast ballots vary in 7,000 voting jurisdictions throughout the United States

Paper ballots

Voters put an "x" next to the candidate of their choice. Paper ballots, the oldest voting method, are used mostly in rural areas and smaller jurisdictions.

Lever machines

Large, mechanical contraptions in which votes are cast by turning down a lever next to the desired candidate's name. Most concentrated in New York, Virginia and Louisiana.

Punch card

The most common method. Voters use a stylus or punching device to make holes indicating their choices on a computer-readable ballot card.

Optical scan

Voters use a pencil or other marker to shade in ovals, circles or arrows on a printed ballot. The ballots are counted by computerized scanning machines, either at the polling place or in a central location.

Electronic

The newest technology. Voters indicate choices by touching a screen or pushing buttons, and an internal computer tallies the ballots.

Internet voting

May someday become a reality. At present, it is not used in elections because of unsolved problems about security and how to make sure the individual casting a vote is entitled to do so.

TEXT WITHIN GRAPHIC BEGINS HERE

Most voting methods decades old

Percentage of Americans that use these voting methods: (1)


Paper ballots (1789) 1%
Lever machines (1892) 18%
Punch cards (1964) 36%
Optical scan (early '80s) 27%
Electronic (late '80s) 9%


America's election challenge

GRAPHIC, Color, USA TODAY; Photo, B/W, Jocelyn Augustino for USA TODAY; GRAPHIC, B/W, Julie Snider, USA TODAY, Source: Election Data Services (BAR GRAPH); Caption: Electronic balloting: Touch-screen voting machines, such as this one by Election Systems & Software, are likely to become more common.


Document usat000020010713dx2e005nz


More Like This

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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
75. As recently as August, here's another company Tod A. Rapp was with
* Odyssey Online, LLC, by Cox, Keller & Rowland, 85 W. Main St., Xenia, 453852913; members: Tod A. Rapp
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BevHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
76. This is a lead that may not pan out
I looked for it because Cronus, under the name Business Records Corp, went on an acquisitions frenzy during the 80s, and I was curious to see whether it had any dealings with Triad Governmental Systems. The reason that is important is that Business Records Corp was acquired by ES&S in 1997, along with all its subsidiaries (which include Dayton Legal Blank).

It is a bit curious, though not proof of anything at all, that on the same week, in just five mentions of insider trading, two of the three were Cronus and Triad Systems (and I'm guessing that Triad Systems will not turn out to be the same company as Triad Governmental Systems, but that should be checked out):

Over-the-Counter:

Cronus Indus. (CRNS) 4 226,250 $2.176 6 -- 0 Sudbury (SUDS) 2 65,050 .341 2 -- 0 Triad Systems (TRSC) 1 75,000 .329 1 -- 1 1st United Bancshrs (UNTD) 1 12,000 .309 4 -- 0 Alateen Resources (ATNG) 1 10,000 .123 1 -- 0

Source BARRONS - Investment News & Views - Insider Transactions
18 September 1989
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Triad Systems does not seem related to Triad GSI of Xenia, Ohio.
Here's an industrial engineering company:
http://www.triadsystemsinc.com /

A currency-trading company:
http://www.gftforex.com/products/systems/subscribe.asp

A California hardware and software company:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3495/is_n8_v...

which merged with Cooperative Computing, Inc.
http://www.cci-triad.com /

which later became Activant:
http://www.ta.com/investments/port_computer.asp

Triad is a common word, of Greek origin, meaning group of three. It's just a guess, but perhaps when the Rapps formed Triad GSI, they chose the word Triad because it would be operated by the father and two sons.
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Mandate My Ass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
79. Psephos votomatic machines highest error rate FL 2000
Tom Rapp, president sold some on eBay. They were in most of the contested counties.

Here's a Rasmussen overview of voting problems in FL 2000

10. Voting Machine Choice
Which counties chose to use the kinds of voting machines that have low spoilage? The variable explained below is whether a county used one of the three ballot types discovered earlier to have high spoilage rates: Optical_Central_ESS, Punchcard_Votomatic, or Punchcard_Datavote. For this we must use a logit regression, since OLS is unsuitable when the variable to be explained takes just values of 0 and 1 rather than a continuous range (though here, OLS happens to yield essentially the same results.)
There are 67 observations, and the pseudo-R-squared is .25. ("Pseudo" because logit does not generate the standard R-squared of ordinary least squares.) The table below shows the coefficient (which is not straightforward to interpet in a logit regression), the z-statistic, and the simple correlation between that variable and whether a county used a low- spoilage ballot. Regression coefficients significant at the 10 percent level are starred.






http://www.rasmusen.org/special/elections/spoiled.htm#P...

A Palm Beast Post article bears this out too.



"Of more than 6.1 million ballots cast in the 2000 election, more than 176,000, or 2.9 percent, weren't counted in the presidential race either because voters skipped the race, tried and failed to mark their ballots for a candidate, or spoiled their ballots by over-voting. Uncounted ballots included more than 112,000 over-votes and more than 61,000 under-votes.

In Palm Beach County and the 14 other counties that used Votomatics or similar punch-card machines, a combined 3.8 percent of ballots went uncounted in the presidential race.

Within Palm Beach County itself, 6.4 percent of ballots were uncounted. There were 19,147 over-votes, many the result of confusion over the county's two-page "butterfly ballot" listing of presidential candidates.

Another 10,310 were "under-votes," many of them ballots in which voters trying to dislodge the rectangular chad next to a candidate's name were only able to create a dimple.

Votomatics and their infamous dimpled chads drew much scorn in the election's aftermath, but other systems were more error-prone.

The rate of uncounted ballots was 6.5 percent in the 9 counties using a different type of punch system called Datavote. It was 6.3 percent in tiny Union County, the only jurisdiction that used paper ballots counted by hand. And in the 15 counties that used an older form of optical-scan voting, 5.6 percent of ballots went uncounted."

http://g2.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/news/optical_s...
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-04-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
80. You guys are simply awesome!
I've sent this ENTIRE thread to 3 separate sets of lawyers working on Ohio ... the Cobb/Badnarik attorneys, our Help America Recount chief counsel, and the attorneys who are handling the citizens' contest litigation. If someone could put all the juicy posts into a single file or post, I'll get it to the Conyers inquiry and Cong. Holt for the GAO inquiry too.

Nobody does research like DU!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

I LOVE YOU!!!

hedda

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-05-04 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
82. Woah! Bev got banned again? What happened?
I missed it.

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