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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 01:59 PM
Original message
Why do people hate Castro so much? Still?
I just don't know enough about it. I have tried to look some things up and I haven't found anything to justify the hate. I mean I do remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, and I do think he was wrong. But I hear people talk like he is a monster, and I just don't find any evidence of that. I actually wasn't alive during the missile crisis, maybe it was scary enough for the animosity to last this long. I don't know I'm not saying he should win a prize or anything (although he has for healthcare), I just don't get it---any thoughts would be appreciated.
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Florida is a swing state
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shoelace414 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. whoa
that was my 666th post.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Good old fashioned hubris. They just can't stomach that he's WINNING
just by his mere existence, he is BEATING the great US of A. We tried to kill him thru exploding cigars, poision, and even tried making his hair and beard fall out so he'd lose respect.

We couldn't get the job done, so it makes us look bad.
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Heyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's that whole pesky...
...imprisoning and executing people who try to dissent or who try to escape that country thing.

That's all.

Heyo
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. You talking about the U.S or Cuba?
:shrug:
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. US--Not everyone in Cuba does hate him do they?
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. No...I was talking about executing people and arresting folks for dissent
because we as a country do that...
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Oh right....sorry ; )
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Maybe Castro is the monster he is portrayed as.
I, personally don't think so, but my opinion isn't well schooled enough to know.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. really
cos I was pretty sure that the US trades with and has very good relations with Saudi and China, so it looks more like sourgrapes to me - much like the refusal to trade with Vietnam that was in place for years because they had the temerity not to accept foreign aggression
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JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. If you are planning to try to defend
Castro, then be prepared for your thread to be locked. Skinner finds no use in defending Castro on this site and I've heard has locked these threads in the past. I don't know for sure, but that's what I've heard and it did come up in a discussion of Che.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Disagree
This is a valid question and Skinners has always been open to err valid discussions.
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JimmyJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. this is what I am repeating:
"And the reason Cuba threads usually end up locked, is because they are usually pointless flaming." -Skinner

----

"I will admit to a certain bias against threads which argue that Cuba is a bastion of freedom and democracy."
-Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Sun Jan-11-04 01:05 PM


Again, I said, "if you are prepared to defend Cuba..."


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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Well I am not intending to "defend" him. I really want to know.
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. They don't...it is a load of propaganda.
Other countries don't have this problem.

I read something recently how people, in places like Cuba, who have so little materially and focus their lives on relationships are far happier.

That is so telling.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. Hey, let's do that here!
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Yeah my friend was talking about Cuba and made the comment it was sad
because they were poor. And it just made me think how sad we (my peers) think living a life without alot of money is just so so sad. I mean obviously I can understand if they are starving or really suffering from the elements, that is sad. But from what I understand they have food, healthcare and a pretty good education system. They do not have all of the frivolous materials we (my peers) can afford ourselves. And that is not necessarily sad.

Now the political prisoners, is another story and I of course do not agree with. But with this I often wonder what if we found US citizens conspiring to overthrow the government--what would we do with them? What if they were conspiring with other countries to overthrow the government? I also understand it is different too because we have democracy and they do not. Well, the entire issue really confuses me. Like so many things ;)
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thoughtful post, thanks...
Welcome to DU.

Confusing to many.
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
56. Thank you for the welcome.
:)
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. I was young back then but I remember we were perhaps
hours away from a nuclear incident or a war. Now whether you believe Kennedy pushed it or the Russians, well, that is up to you. Thing is we always think we can have nuclear, but we don't like it when other countries have nuclear arms. I guess you would have to poll everyone in Cuba born prior to let's say 1948 or so and ask are you better off under Castro or the "old" way. I guess the dirt poor there are now better off and a lot of the rich ones left and came here and other countries.
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Dangerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
16. What the hell is the difference between Castro and Saddam?
Edited on Thu Oct-21-04 02:18 PM by Dangerman
They both brutalize their people, they murder their political opponents, they use torture and other stuff to prisoners, but one is called a monster and the other was treated like a human being!

Tell me what's the real difference between these two? Other than the fact that the Reagan administration happily gave Saddam chemical weapons to wipe out Iranians (one of our enemies at the time) and Saddam was sitting in a huge stock of oil fields?

And BTW, why are we so obessed with Saddam rather than Castro, anyway?
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. more appropos, what is the difference between cuba & china?
one is where we draw the line, the other is where we can't draw a line.

both are oppressive communist regimes. but china (and vietnam, and cambodia, and burma, etc.) is okey dokey because we don't have a politically active ant-communist chinese immigrant population.

why can't we simply apply the engagement policy we've used with china with cuba? because 'more dominos would fall'? does anyone seriously believe that anymore? besides miami cuban whackos?

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
38. That's not the only reason
China lets their political prisoners sew stuffed animals for Mattel and Toys 'R' Us for pennies a day. Cuba doesn't. End of story.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
39. elections?
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prayin4rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. Does anyone have a legitimate and objective site that claims he has killed
all of these innocent people, (I'm not being sarcastic) because I can't find one. I found an encyclopedia site that stated that was a claim made by the US, but that is all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro This is the site I found and like a said he doesn't sound like a Saint but he doesn't seem that bad either. ---If one of you who seems to know why he is so hated has something for me to read I would appreciate it. Also, I did study him a little bit in Spanish class and again the HATE is lost on me.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Castro has a beard .....
and one simply can NOT trust a man with a beard. It's been pointed out on DU that Al Gore wore a beard for a period of time; the US Supreme Court anticipated this, and ruled he was unfit to serve as president. Karl Marx had a beard, and he forced millions of poor people into slavery in the USSR and China .... those same lost souls could have lived in the lap of luxury under a clean-shaven George W. Bush. I grow very suspicious of the motivation of those who advocate for beady-eyed men with beards.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
19. Because they are woefully misinformed about Castro and Cuba in general.
They've been fed lies from this government for decades, and despite all evidence to the contrary still believe those lies.

It's very Republican of them. I have no idea why they believe the way they do, and no idea how to inform them when people much more involved in the issue have tried to no avail.

They should visit Cuba (too bad it's illegal) and see for themselves just how accurate their view of reality toward Cuba is.

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Quite right. But, it's so much easier and PC to remain ignorant.
And, it comes in handy to show off their "I'm an anti-Communist" credentials. Mustn't upset the Right Wingers, you know.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
52. IMHO, it's pretty cowardly to accept the propaganda.
I mean, it's not like it hasn't been thoroughly debunked by amazing men and women out there.

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #52
57. I totally agree. But, they need a bogeyman.
And, Castro's such an easy target.

"Just ninety miles off our shores looms..." A third world nation without the ability to threaten us in any way.

"Castro the dictator.." While he's certainly not a democrat in the American sense, he's a helluva lot better than a lot of "democratically elected" leaders when it comes to human rights and helping his people.

"Castro tortures and kills his opponents.." As if that's unique to Cuba. Of course, WE would never do such things...except at Abu-ghraib and Guantanamo. Not to mention our long history of crushing dissent with deadly force and torture.

Or, my favorite, "We just want to democratize Cuba." We invaded Cuba, we imposed a blockade on Cuba, we have unilateral sanctions on Cuba, we constantly show our hostility to Cuba and announce our intentions to "liberate" it, and finance surrogates to undermine it. And, now, we're surprised that they don't trust us. Blame the victim.

"If it's so great, why don't you move there?" As if anyone in a wealthy country would want to move to any 3rd world country threatened with invasion.

Americans are anti-Castro because they're bombarded with propaganda, willfully ignorant, lazy, and self satisfied. Sort of like the Brits were in the 1770s about America.




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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. It is possible to visit Cuba legally.
Bush Bush has made it more difficult.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. Faux & friends were laughing this morning when they showed castro falling
they make me SICK!!!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
22. So, the "moderates" can show the RW'rs they're not one of them Reds.
Edited on Thu Oct-21-04 03:12 PM by bandera
Castro is hardly the most benevolent leader in the world, but he is far more so than most of the leaders of 3rd world countries.

Funny how the torture, assasinations, and apartheid practiced in "democratic" Israel goes unnoticed by these same folks.


Memo to self: check spelling before posting.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. Whatever his merits, he has been in office too long
I simply do not believe that the Cubans, in free elections, would never vote him out of office after all these years. I think that is pretty good evidence that the country is not free. I am not a fan of dictators or kings.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
40. As dictators go, he's not all that bad
If you forced me to live somewhere in Central America or the Caribbean, Cuba would be my second choice after Costa Rica.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #40
48. But still a dictator
I make no excuses for dictators or kings. No one has a divine right to rule. It always ends in tragedy.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. Castro tumbled and broke some bones.
Wolf to report on it next.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. Rich Cuban Expatriots
Basically, the Cubans that were forced to flee here before the Seventies because of him are the ones who hate him the most. Many of them lost their fortunes and, in some cases, their families in the revolution, and they aren't likely to forgive and forget any time soon. Plus, the bastard's outlived half of the people he forced to flee. The prisoners he released and the people who escape by raft don't have much love for him either. He's just a leftover of the Soviet-style communism that doesn't work, but the island is small enough for him to fake it this long.

If you want evidence, go to South Florida and talk to an old Cuban.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Yeah, the aristocrats of the Batista regime
aka, old South Floridan Cubans. Yeah, they're a great source.
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
32. I don't hate Castro, in fact I respect him.
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Dangerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #32
45. Castro's a monster.
I do not respect him, in fact he should have is own special place in hell!
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MsTryska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #45
54. Why do you say that?
i too have had a hard time separating fact form fiction in regards to him.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
33. Because he stole their profiteering constructs in favor of the populace's
long-term welfare. He was harsh, but the could have a self-sustaining country if we would stop messing with them. They have an excellent educational and healthcare system. Something we completely lack.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
34. Because the Miami Crybabies cry long and loud
Fuck 'em
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nine23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. Because he pissed on the parade.
Havana circa 1950's was a perfect microcosm to what America is today, in all it's corrupt, mob-run coporate glory. And Castro pissed on their parade.

Class dismissed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You've entered hell. Choose your Lay-Z-Boy.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
36. same reason we hate everyone else
becausetheytellustobecausetheytellustobecausetheytellusto/malfunction/programisnotresponding/terminate
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
41. Here's why Cuba is "bad" and China is "good," even though
China's human rights record is much, much worse:

China allows American companies to set up sweatshops.

That's the only reason I can think of that makes any sense.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Yup
Edited on Fri Oct-22-04 12:04 AM by charlie
(No love for Castro from me, but I do find it amusing that in spite of the US's monomaniacal obsession with him, in a couple of weeks he'll have outlasted his tenth American president)
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murdoch Donating Member (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #41
44. Or other Latin American countries...
The US has supported dictatorships in Latin America, and probably would have invaded Nicaragua if rank-and-file Democrats did not put pressure for that not to happen. As we see, an invasion was not necessary as the government had been voted into power and was voted out of power.

In El Salvador they killed nuns, priests and even killed the archbishop, and Reagan loved them, sent them money, as we are still doing. Could you imagine if Castro killed an archbishop?

When people complain about what Cuba has been like since Castro took over, I ask them to look around Latin America and compare. Have the Cuban people had bread riots like they had in Argentina a few years ago? And Argentina has had it pretty good for Latin America, even considering the Dirty War.

The bottom line is Cuba is none of Bush's business!
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MisterP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. ta-daa!
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LiberteToujours Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
42. I'm going to Cuba for Christmas
It's much easier from Canada. :) I'll let you know what I find!
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Dangerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
46. I do not respect any dictator
Especially scumbags like Castro.

(Slightly off-topic) In this stupid place called George W. Bush's America (I was preferring to the Republican-controlled government, not the real America) nobody respects Saddam Hussein, even if he somehow had a heart and cooperated with UN inspectors to destroy his weapons of mass destruction, gave his people clean water and food, and hated Muslim wackos like bin Laden. Oh, and he did not murder a single American citizen for that manner.

So for the sake of fairness, I do not respect Castro as a human being, even as a living organism, he's scum!
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secular_warrior Donating Member (705 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
47. I have zero respect for thugs - left, right or center
and Castro is a thug, a criminal and a dictator among other things.

The problem with many on the left is they get too caught up in theory and specifics.. they lose the forest for the trees which opens them up to the "loony anti-American left" charge the right is so effective in using to demonize us.

Castro is a criminal and a dictator who needs to be taken out by the Cuban people --not our government-- who will hopefully put in a liberal democratic leader.

There is no reason for the embargo. Having an open relationship with Cuba would help to crush Castro faster than anything else, just as an open relationship with the USSR helped to bring down the iron curtain.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
49. They're pissed off at all the money they could have made the last 50 years
was lost.
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Democracy Died 2004 Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
50. I am not sure most people
hate Castro. probably just the same ones that hate Muslims, Jews, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics or any other non-white <except for the French of course> peoples. Hmmm Evil has a name and it is Republican.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
51. Castro this Castro that
Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that Castro this Castro that



There. Feel better?

;)



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catbert836 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-22-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
53. Castri isn't a paragon of virtue
but George W is even worse. At least you can count on Castro to do what he says he'll do. We're just mad because we still want to control Cuba as our legacy from the Spanish-American War.
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